The Friday Political Thread: "If She's Not a Monster, How Come She's Still Moving?" Edition

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Unconvincing Quote of the Week
"Mike Huckabee Crosses Finish Line In Presidential Run"—the former governor's press release on his decision to quit the race.

The Week in Brief

– Hillary Clinton won primaries in Ohio, Texas, and Rhode Island, surviving to fight on and retooling her strategy even as Barack Obama maintained a delegate lead.

– John McCain clinched the GOP nomination for president, and Mike Huckabee left the race.

– Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich won their re-election bids.

– The new head of the Republican National Committee Victory effort? Yes, it's Rudy Giuliani's former campaign manager.

Below the Fold
– David Corn shames the Clinton campaign for making hay out of Samantha Power's bluntness.

More by Jacob Heilbrunn on the same issue.

– Patrick Ruffini—who has alternately greatly overestimated or greatly underestimated the Ron Paul movement, but who's otherwise very on the ball—talks at length about how the internet can democratize the GOP's 2008 campaign.

– Mark Hemingway chats with Larry Lessig, who clearly isn't done with politics.

– David Boaz pays tribute to WFB.

– Cliff Bostock comes out, boldly, against the elderly.

When the primary gets fierce, my Politics n' Prog selection node seeks out songs about warfar. Thus, Wishbone Ash.

NEXT: And the President Gets What the President Wants, But I Want Nothing That Society's Got

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  1. “Fierce” is my adjective.

  2. Hillary Clinton won primaries in Ohio, Texas, and Rhode Island, surviving to fight on and retooling her strategy even as Barack Obama maintained a delegate lead.

    The reports I have seen is that when you do the match for the Texas Primary and the Texas Caucus, Obama will finish with 1 more delegate than Clinton.

    How does that constitute a “win” in Texas?

  3. She did win the primary, although she lost the caucus.

    This result may be an indication that Rush Limbaugh’s plea for people to vote for Hillary worked. Obviously a dittohead wouldn’t want to stand in line for two hours waiting for the caucus to start, and then publicly state his love of Hillary.

  4. I wonder if Kansas has yet to make Politics and Prog. And if you don’t think they are “worthy,” check out Journey From Mariabronn, Icarus, Song For America or The Pinnacle, all of which are every bit as good as Yes, Genenis, Rush or ELP at their best. Steve Hackett from Genesis once said vocalist Steve Walsh had the “perfect white rock voice.” And in his prime, Walsh was arguably the greatest progressive rock vocalist.

  5. – The new head of the Republican National Committee Victory effort? Yes, it’s Rudy Giuliani’s former campaign manager.

    The former Dukakis campaign manager must have turned them down.

  6. I wonder if Kansas has yet to make Politics and Prog. And if you don’t think they are “worthy,” check out Journey From Mariabronn, Icarus, Song For America or The Pinnacle, all of which are every bit as good as Yes, Genenis, Rush or ELP at their best.

    I just threw up a little in my mouth.

  7. Why? Because you don’t like Prog. Or you disagree with my assertion on Kansas? If you don’t like prog I can’t argue with that. I will, however, fight to the death arguing that Kansas at their best are every bit as good as the best of the British prog rockers.

  8. 1. Speaking about Larry Lessig, democratization, and Ron Paul, if anyone wants a cheap and fairly easy way to a) help reform our political system, b) help reform the media, and c) encourage RP to run as a third-party candidate, do the following:

    * Go to campaign events
    * Ask the questions the MSM is afraid to ask
    * Videotape the response and upload it

    Yes, it’s that simple. We now have the means to hold politicians accountable for their proposals and let potentially millions of people see it via Youtube and similar venues. Doing that would be a great way to reduce McCain’s popularity and also a great way to point out the differences between Ron Paul and the other candidates.

    And, doing it would be a great public service and a way to obtain some degree of fame. If you can’t do it, encourage others to do it.

    2. I continue to be the only blogger and similar who’s willing to point out that Obama supports Bush’s SPP scheme (spp.gov). Why o why could that be?

    3. On a related note, those behind the SPP are starting up their media campaign.

    4. In celebration of Her glorious recent victories, here’s a flashback to the jubilations surrounding the first Clinton reign. That’s also this week’s prog antidote.

  9. I’m just teasing a little because I really, really don’t like those bands you named. As a rule I don’t like prog, but of course exceptions come along once in a while.

  10. “The North American Alliance”

    An ALLIANCE? With other countries in North America?

    Ohnoes! We can’t be allies with Canada and Mexico, that would be crazy.

    Next thing you know, they’ll be helping us guard our airspace and stuff.

  11. Is there anyone releasing music today that could be considered Prog, or is it strictly a phenomenon of the 70s and 80s?

  12. this btw, is the album recording of one of the best composed if not the best composed prog-rock tune ever. If you haven’t heard it, you are missing out.

  13. Yes of course there is plenty of new prog-rock stuff from Dream Theater to Mars Volta to many others.

    Highnumber, I gotcha. Those who like punk/alternative tend to be very anti-prog.

  14. I for one never play the “vote for the weakest candidate in the party that you oppose’s primary” because sometimes that “weaker” candidate will win, and then they make the laws that rule your life…

    It’s neat that Hillary, in the rhetoric of the conservative talk show hosts, has gone from “unstoppable monster” to “the weaker of the two.” I wonder how much of their “go support HRC” stuff is a hope that she is around for them to harp about for a while (a HRC presidency would be great for Limbaugh et al). Either way, up until very recently I was convinced that I should swallow the puke in my mouth that surfaces imagining a Clinton presidency and support her in the primaries because she was “stronger” than Obama…I’m glad I decided to go with Obama now that HRC is working every slimy trick imaginable (trying to seat the FL and MI delegates, working the super delegates) and selfishly attacking her opponent (claiming he does not experience to be President or Commander in Chief).

    One thing HRC can say to Dem leaning voters is that she has won the following primaries: Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Texas, California, NY…All big electoral states, and the first two crucial swing states in 2008.

  15. joe: you won’t find too many cosmos disagreeing with you, since they don’t recognize things like our borders, subjugating the Constitution to “ministers” (see the document in the third link), avoiding foreign entanglements, and the like.

  16. I invite everyone to learn the real story about John Sidney McCain III. Click on my handle. McCain III isn’t the hero he makes himself out to be. He has totally and completely betrayed POWs, MIAs, and their families for crass political gain. Learn the truth. John Sidney McCain III–just another Washington politician.

  17. reason sucks

  18. Not just “ministers,” you big, racist lunatic, you, but the Privy Council.

    Yes, THAT Privy Council.

    Good night sleeping tonight, reasonoids. When you wake up tomorrow, the Clerk of the Privy Council could be driving on a highway in Texas.

  19. lonewacko,

    Self linking and Mex hatin’ is one thing but I just can’t abide Natalie Merchant fandom.

  20. John Sidney McCain III not only was one of the few Senators to block further investigations into missing Vietnam POWs, but when he was in a North Vietnamese prison camp he also willingly broadcast Communist propaganda. McCain III accused American troops of targeting hospitals, orphanages, and schools in exchange for special treatment by the Viet Cong.

    John Sidney McCain III–a man you just can’t trust.

  21. Woule Muse be considered contemporary Prog?

    I know about Dream Theater, but they’re a old band.

  22. Radiohead has a prog vibe going on.

  23. Monsters, chickens and snakes keep moving long after their heads have been cut off.
    Billary’s head, Slick Willie, has been cut off.

    Remain calm. Remain patient. Move on.
    Obama has slain the dragon.

  24. I just had a horrible thought.

    Were all those people supporting RP online… just one person?

    Because, after The Fall, pro-RP Diggs, videos, and comments have dropped drastically. Is that because The Ron Paul Supporter got discouraged or something? A case in point: this mocking WaPo post only has eight or so pro-RP comments, including one from me.

    SIV: This is for you. This is for everyone else.

  25. “I was taken to the symphony a lot because my mother loved classical music. But I was dragged to see Styx when I was 12. We had to drive 100 miles to Buffalo, New York. Someone threw up next to me and people were smoking pot. It was terrifying. I remember Styx had a white piano which rose out of the stage. It was awe-inspiring and inspirational.”

    Natalie Merchant recounting her Prog inspirations.

  26. Did John Sidney McCain III broadcast Viet Cong Propaganda for special treatment in POW camp? The answers may surprise you.

    John Sidney McCain III. Wrong in the past. Wrong for our future.

  27. Jon Rowe:
    I didn’t know Mars Volta counted as prog, but it is good.

  28. Hey joe, yes. Also the Barsuk records bands (Death Cab for Cutie, Nada Surf, Postal Service, …) are proggy.

  29. Vietnam Vets Against McCain,
    I’m sure I’m not the first to break this to you. You are going to have to hone your message before you get traction here.
    I’m a Vietnam Vet Against McCain. So what?
    And he’s a guy I can’t trust? Hell, I don’t trust myself.
    Get to honin’, then come back. Not sooner. Give us a major rework.
    If you want government programs for veterans, honing may not be enough.

  30. Jon Rowe,

    I honestly don’t mean this to be snarky, but you managed to craft a masterful sentence here:

    Steve Hackett from Genesis once said vocalist Steve Walsh had the “perfect white rock voice.”

    Without getting into a discussion of taste, that sentence manages to define exactly what you and other fans love about Kansas, while simultaneously explaining why I and other non-fans hate them.

  31. David, I don’t seek any government programs. I merely want McCain to explain why he didn’t ask Hanoi to release the records they had on him when diplomatic relations were normalized in 1995. Many other POWs say the reason he didn’t demand that these records be released is because he received special treatment from the Viet Cong in exchange for broadcasting Jane Fonda-like statements against America.

    Whats Sidney hiding? We may never know, especially if hes elected President.

  32. VVAM: I’m sure your message could get some traction, but I’d suggest concentrating on the here and now as an easier and “cleaner” approach. See the first point in my first comment.

  33. Vietnam Vets Against McCain makes me want to vote for McCain just to piss him off.

    Slandering veterans like that is repugnant.

    He was tortured you douchebag! What the fuck is wrong with you?

  34. Many other POW./.

    name one.

    First name, last name.

    BTW, I’m Joe Boyle, and I live in Lowell, Massachusetts.

    Did I mention you’re a douchebag?

  35. BTW, I’m Joe Boyle, and I live in Lowell, Massachusetts.

    Hi, Joe! I’m…hey wait, this is a trick, right?

    Damn it! You all won’t trick me into giving out my name or address until they tenure my sorry ass.

  36. Joe Gerard W. Kiley is the head of Vietnam Veterans Against McCain. Hes a highly decorated veteran who know the truth about Sidney.

    Before you accuse him of being some kind of partisan, keep in mind he was also a member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth in 2004.

    Bob Dumas is another Vietnam Vet (and former POW) who knows that Sideny III is little more than a spoiled rich kid who broadcasted Jane Fonda-like propaganda for the Viet Cong in exchange for special treatment.

    Go to our YouTube channel Joe. Learn the truth. Don’t vote for Sidney.

  37. He “knows the truth?” He was with him in the camp?

    What’s that? No?

  38. Watch the videos, Joe. Decide for yourself. But you can’t talk until you have seen the videos.

    This isn’t a partisan issue. Its about truth and honor. No true patriot would broadcast Jane Fonda-like statements for the enemy, would they?

    Watch the videos and get back to me, ok?

    Even former Congressman Bob Dornan (R-CA) thinks Sidney is a big fraud.

  39. 1) What kind of person doesn’t respond to being repeatedly sworn at? A tool. An operator.

    2) Swift Boat vets AND B-1 Bob. All right then.

    People like you are what is wrong with this country.

  40. Instead of calling me a tool, Joe, why don’t you watch the videos and tell me what you think of them? What do you have to lose? Scared?

    Go ahead and watch. You’ll be enlightened.

  41. I take that back. The part about calling you a person.

    You’re not a person. You’re a campaign tactic. Maybe, once upon a time, there was a person in there, but he’s gone. For a long time, by all appearances.

  42. Blah blah blah, type the lines they told you spam blogs with again, like a good little robot.

  43. Oh thanks for the reminder joe. Perfect Circle and Tool are prog bands.

  44. OK, it’s looks like “prog band” is being used to mean “prog-influenced band.”

    Tool is a metal band, Death Cab for Cutie is an alternative band. Neither is the same genre as Yes or Genesis or Dream Theater, but I can hear the influence.

  45. “One thing HRC can say to Dem leaning voters is that she has won the following primaries: Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Texas, California, NY…All big electoral states, and the first two crucial swing states in 2008.”

    California goes Republican when Skynet is actually up and running..until then, I believe its Dem territory no matter who is on the ballot.
    As for Floroda, two dog whistles in the GE, that will draw out conservatives: Clinton the ballot, and an ant-gay marriage amendment on the ballot. Remember that this is one of the only states to still forbid gays from adopting. I don’t see how Clinton wins Florida, especially if Crist winds up the VP nominee.

  46. Wow, thats alot of typos. Sorry about that.

  47. I see I’m late to the party.

    So the Clinton campaign has come to H&R? Hi Hill!

  48. joe:

    Would Apocolyptica count as a prog band? I’ve seen them referenced as such… I just appreciate a group of classic celloists who play metal songs…

    And they’re coming to Cleveland…

    Note to self: Buy ticket.

    Nephilium

  49. My friends, Vietnam veterans are not in fact against me, my friends. Please disregard this talk of the poster Vietnam Veterans Against McCain, my friends. My friends, if I have to I will reinvade Vietnam so that his assertions cannot be proven true, my friends.

  50. I don’t know them, Neph.

    I do know the fields of the you, so I’m not clueless when it comes to music, but I don’t know that band.

  51. This McCain ad is really stoner worthy.

  52. Ok joe if you are looking for pure mid 70s prog uninfluenced by grunge or garage, you should listen to the Decemberists.

  53. For those who want real prog rock with their politics..

    http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2008/03/boris-statement.html

  54. And if Boris is not to your taste…
    There is always

    Green Milk From Planet Orange
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=U0vK7_BQp-4

    joe, if prog rock is limited to Yes or Genesis or Dream Theater…you ain’t talking prog.

  55. If Rush is prog.

    Then Tool is prog (since Tool are the new Rush).

  56. joe: yep Muse is neo-prog, Radiohead apparently has some prog influences but I have a kneejerk hatred of them for some reason.

    Also its unlikely to find any “pure” band of any genre these days, which I find appealing because it keeps things fresh. Lots of great stuff out there!

  57. The only Genesis I know is either from the Bible or Sega.

  58. Bingo,

    Also its unlikely to find any “pure” band of any genre these days

    I would disagree.
    What I find amazing are these kids who are doing spot on imitations of music from before they were born.

    eg, http://www.myspace.com/theheavy73

  59. Haha NM that is scary how perfectly they would fit into the era. Okay point taken! These guys would fit that description pretty well too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na-TMIXHzy4

  60. Here you go joe…

    Four celloists playing Nothing Else Matters.

    See if this works for you… if for nothing else, then if you like bizarre covers, click the linky…

    Nephilium

  61. OK I can’t remember who it was on here who was really opposed to Randy Newman (other than me – “don’t need no short people round here” my ass), but on the subject of Prog rock, this is a pretty funny send-up of ELO.

  62. SWDWTLHJ,

    That was me.

    Fucking Randy Newman sucks…

    ELO hit and miss.

    Will Sasso used to do a great Randy Newman parody.

  63. Yeah I saw at least one episode of MAD where he did that. Will Sasso is pretty good. His Kenny Rogers and his Randy Newman are both hilarious. Actually I like a good bit of ELO, but still, they sort of leave themselves pretty open to ridicule. (As do we short people, right Randy, you sumbitch?! *grinds axe*)

    The part of the song where he calls them a rock-roll band right after the discussion of who played the little violin and who played the big violin is pretty freakin’ funny.

  64. SWDWTLHJ-

    What are you trying to get tenured in? Just curios. You do not have to say. There is quite a few of us untenured folks around. Poor us.

  65. SWDWTLHJ-

    You know what, strike that. Why am I being nosy? It would not make a difference what your area is. I actually feel guilty asking that question. Is there something wrong with me?

  66. Ali – It’s no problem. I give out a lot of info on here, just not quite all of it. I teach at a private liberal arts college in Virginia where I’m an assistant professor of mathematics.

    I have three years left ’til I go up. Things look OK for me now (I just did my third year review), so I hope that they stay that way.

  67. Ali- seriously, it’s not a problem. I’ve mentioned that I’m a mathematician in Virginia lots of times on here.

    No new secrets were uncovered. :o)

  68. Ali: By the way, if you don’t mind my asking, what discipline are you teaching in?

    (I always thought that sounded strange, calling them disciplines – like the answer ought to be mantis-style kung-fu or pyrokinesis.)

  69. SWDWTLHJ-

    Similar situation here, but in engineering (aero). Smaller school, in ma. I did actually do an msc in mathematics (dynamical systems and geometric mechanics). I am doing very good as far as tenure is concerned. Still not even two years, but I am hoping to nail this thing soon by getting some research moneys. That part ain’t fun, until you get the first sums of money.

    Money is good. Money is always good.

  70. Oh, and my erdos number is 4. My erdos-bacon number is 8 (but I tweak the definition of the e-b number a little from that used in wiki).

  71. Yeah tell me about it. We’re a teaching school, so the publication expectation is pretty small (which is what I was looking for), but I’m currently working on getting a big grant. (I’m really close, it’ll probably be finalized by next week.) I can only imagine will help my case out a lot when I go up.

    The money here is not that great. I mean it’s OK, but nothing special until you realize that you’re getting paid for seven and a half months of work, really. Any time you multiply your salary by 1.6 to find your effective salary if you didn’t have a huge vacation built in, it makes you feel better.

  72. Get a room, you two! And… make sure and turn on your TV, because:

    THE EDITOR-IN-CHIEF OF REASON IS ON BILL MOYERS’ SHOW!!!

    Also, for those who were wondering where the new prog is… here it is! Of course, unlike regular prog, it’s acoustic. And, unlike regular prog, the song isn’t about robots or comic books. And, unlike regular prog, the performer isn’t a guy who looks like a girl (regular or Canadian).

  73. I currently have an infinite Erdos number but there’s some chance at least that I’ll have either a 4 or a 5 by the time I am tenured. (I’m cuurently working with my department head on one paper and my advisor on another; my department head has a Erdos number of 4 (I think) and I imagine my advisor has a finite one, maybe lower.

    Actually, if you count student films, I probably have a finite Bacon number already. I was in one and think I should be able to trace myself to Piper Perabo; from there to Kevin Bacon should be easy.

    Let’s see: Piper Perabo in “The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle” with Robert De Niro.

    Robert De Niro was in “Sleepers” with Kevin Bacon.

    The path from me to Piper Perabo is a bit more tortured, though.

  74. Thanks for keeping the open thread appropriately moderated, Lone Wacko.

  75. SWDWTLHJ-

    Haha… I never acted, that’s why I said that I tweaked the definition of the e-b number.

    Anyhow, good luck with all.

  76. No problem – just tracked it down: Bacon number of 4 here.

  77. Good luck to you too.

  78. SWDWTLHJ:

    Bah! I scoff at your Bacon number of 4!

    Bacon number of three, but through live acting, not movies. Worked with someone who was an extra in Kalifornia, which had Brad Pitt in it…

    Of course, being a non-college graduate, I have no Erdos number.

    Hmmm… so who would the headbrewer be that would qualify for such treatment…

    Nephilium

  79. Nephilium, my Bacon number comes from a part in a student film – a speaking role and not extra work. I think this makes it legal in mosts variations of the rule set for the Bacon game, though I’m not absolutely sure given that it was from a student film role.

    My Erd?s number is still infinite, but once I publish a non-solo paper with my department head it’ll be either 4 or 5. I imagine if I get one out with my advisor, it’d probably be 3 or 4 from that.

    There actually are a few people who have legit Erd?s-Bacon numbers, including Natalie Portman, Danica McKellar, Bertrand Russell, Paul Erd?s himself, and physicists Stephen Hawking, Brian Greene, and Richard Feynman. See here.

    If I actually get a finite Erd?s-bacon number, I might have to get a car and a license plate to commemorate this completely ridiculous achievement.

  80. Argus was one of my favorites back in high school. killer 2nd site with Warrior & Throw down the sword. still enjoyable to listen to even though it’s obvious their guitar playing is far superior to their song writing or singing or lyrics.

    very much enjoy your politics & prog retro-music links.

  81. Ya like prog?

    Ya dig Kansas?

    Ya want something with a “libertarian” message?

    Here ya go…

  82. Wow you know when the lead singer pulls out a violin you are dealing with a serious prog rock band.

    How the hell did men wear their hair so long back in the 70s its fucking obnoxious!

  83. Also Erdos (inc. umlauts or whatever) numbers seem pretty fucking smarmy and honestly who cares?

  84. hey jim wooow great video : )

  85. Wake up, America!

    Hillary Clinton is undead, so killing her would be redundant.

    Obama’s real name is Sheikh Yabhooti, and he’s a radical Imam who wants to bring American under Sharia Law and have polygamous marriages with all of your daughters.

    John McCain was never in the Hanoi Hilton – he was such a cooperative prisoner that the Viet Cong put him up at the lesser-known Hanoi Marriott, where he had his own private room, a concierge, free cable including porn, and regular orgies with Jane Fonda.

    Obama, Clinton and McCain are secretly in league with the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderburgers, the builders of the NAFTA Superhighway, and several Progressive Rock bands to subjugate and enslave this great country. But it’s not too late to buy my books and CDs which will explain how to cut off the tentacles of this insidious conspiracy.

    Awake, arise, America! To your tents, O Israel!

  86. And the only time John McCain was tortured was when Jane Fonda forced him to watch one of her movies.

  87. hey, i’m an e-b 4. w00t!

    something of a cheat since barry levinson is a cousin.

  88. when it comes to rock violin, there’s the flock and then there’s everyone else.

  89. My Bacon number…

    1-2 -good friend has a cousin in the senate.
    3- senators work with Dick Cheney
    4- Dick Cheney debated John Edwards
    5- Kevin Bacon worked on Edwards campaign

  90. That means, of course, that my Cheney number is much smaller than my Bacon number (shudders).

  91. You dudes are jokes. Hawkwind is the ultimate prog rock. If your band hasn’t done an entire albulm about Elric of Melnibon?, with fucking Michael Moorcock playing guitar, your band sucks.

    King Crimson is good too.

  92. Although, my Bacon number is not based on film work…it would be infinite based on that.

  93. Porcupine Tree are proggier than many of the old-school prog groups.

  94. Episiarch,

    Hawkwind and King Crimson are both hard-core prog…hard to argue with those choices.

    I would argue, however, that ELP are the prog-iest of the prog…I mean when you debut with Pictures at an Exhibition and stick giant daggers in you B3, you are truly prog.

  95. I’m really starting to realize how dorky you people are.

  96. Arioch and Xiombarg endorse Emerson, Lake, & Palmer because Greg Lake was in King Crimson. Your choice pleases them.

  97. Although…

    Tales of Topographic Oceans at 3 albums may be the prog-iest song ever.

  98. I’m really starting to realize how dorky you people are.

    Stick around, we’re just getting started.

  99. hawkwind? i get a 1. their soundman is a drinking buddy.

  100. mccain is more like a 3, assuming he ever met charles murray.

  101. Oops…
    I guess it only seems like it is six sides long…

    I used to smoke too much pot when I was young I guess…the prog days are kinda fuzzy…

    From Wikipedia,
    The album’s concept, a two-disc, four-piece work of symphonic length and scope (based on the Shastric scriptures, as found in a footnote within Paramahansa Yogananda’s book Autobiography of a Yogi), was their most ambitious to date.

  102. Hi, Joe! I’m…hey wait, this is a trick, right?

    Damn it! You all won’t trick me into giving out my name or address until they tenure my sorry ass.

    The Internet Idol? jury gives SWDWTLHJ ????.

  103. NM,

    Tales is only two albums, and its 4 songs. Each side of the double LP is a different song.

    When I saw Yes back in 97? 98? they played The Revealing Science of God. I think, hard to keep those 4 songs straight. 🙂 My date needed to hit the bathroom, I told her it was a good time, the next song was 20 minutes away.

  104. Wouldnt Thick as a Brick be the proggiest song ever? Its a double sided song, IIRC.

  105. While the previous album, Aqualung, stretched the band’s wings further from the blues of the first three albums, it was still basically mainstream rock. Band leader Ian Anderson was surprised by the critical reaction to the previous album Aqualung as a “concept album”, a label he has firmly rejected to this day. In an interview on In the Studio with Redbeard (which spotlighted Thick as a Brick), Ian Anderson’s response to the critics was “if the critics want a concept album we’ll give them a concept album and we’ll make it so bombastic and so over the top.”

  106. Speaking of King Crimson (a few posts back), Lark’s Tongue in Aspic is in my CD player right now. I should probably turn it on.

  107. robc,

    Thick as a Brick is listed as the number one prog album of all time on the Prog archives…

    As for Tales of Topographic Oceans being 4 songs…

    I would say they are 4 movements of the same piece.

  108. Close tags…Damn.

  109. Bacon number:

    1. My business partner
    2. Grew up on the same street with Tom Cruise (for the few years he was in Louisville)
    3. Who Im sure has done a movie with Bacon, but Im not checking.

  110. Hey, this is The Friday Political Thread

    Not The Friday Prog Rock Thread.
    Not The Friday Bacon Number/Erd?s Number Thread. Hmph. [/cranky]

    From Prsident Bush’s address last night –

    The main reason this program has been effective is that it allows the C.I.A. to use specialized interrogation procedures to question a small number of the most dangerous terrorists under careful supervision. The bill Congress sent me would deprive the C.I.A. of the authority to use these safe and lawful techniques. Instead, it would restrict the C.I.A.’s range of acceptable interrogation methods to those provided in the Army field manual. The procedures in this manual were designed for use by soldiers questioning lawful combatants captured on the battlefield. They were not intended for intelligence professionals trained to question hardened terrorists.

    Translation – torture is a desirable tactic if conducted by “intelligence professionals”.
    This makes me so proud to be an American. Excuse me while I regurgitate my brunch.

  111. I’m marooned by the snow here, so I’ve been reading almost every word in a New Yorker magazine. Story there about Castro stepping down reminds of what you’re saying about torture, J sub D. US policy toward Cuba has been working every bit as well as its policy on torture. Makes Amurika safer and more properous. Yeah right.

    my imitation Bacon number:

    1. Had it on my imitation scrambled eggs this morn.

  112. Excuse me while I regurgitate my brunch.

    I cant do this, I just carbo loaded so I can head out to shovel my driveway (I think this is the biggest snowfall we have received since I moved back to the ville in 1994 – damn global warming [that was for you, joe]). Anyway, my 5-CD player is shuffling thru Yes, Rush, Genesis, Kansas, and King Crimson. It is progurday.

  113. J sub D: Way to enforce the rules, brutha!

    And thanks for the award!

  114. My favorite part of the week was seeing peopole get excited about the poll that showed Obama up 12 over McCain — if you weight Dems by an extra 20%.

  115. Translation – torture is a desirable tactic if conducted by “intelligence professionals”. Excuse me while I regurgitate my brunch.

    If you consider running water over 3 senior AQ terrorists with detailed knowledge of plans to kill Americans “torture.”

    Peronally, I’d rather see you alive and regurgitating, but I’m just sentimental that way.

  116. TallDave

    Unless there was a good reason to run water over them (like they were on fire or something), it is torture.

    Maybe relatively mild torture, but still torture.

  117. Okay, the dictionary says torture involves either “excruciating” or “severe” pain. So, I guess there is no such thing as “mild torture.” But, I doubt anything short of “excruciating” or “severe” could get a confession out of someone, so anything short of torture seems pointless anyway.

  118. “Runaway greenhouse theories contradict energy balance equations,” Miskolczi states. Just as the theory of relativity sets an upper limit on velocity, his theory sets an upper limit on the greenhouse effect, a limit which prevents it from warming the Earth more than a certain amount.

    How did modern researchers make such a mistake? They relied upon equations derived over 80 years ago, equations which left off one term from the final solution.

    Miskolczi’s story reads like a book. Looking at a series of differential equations for the greenhouse effect, he noticed the solution — originally done in 1922 by Arthur Milne, but still used by climate researchers today — ignored boundary conditions by assuming an “infinitely thick” atmosphere. Similar assumptions are common when solving differential equations; they simplify the calculations and often result in a result that still very closely matches reality. But not always.

    So Miskolczi re-derived the solution, this time using the proper boundary conditions for an atmosphere that is not infinite. His result included a new term, which acts as a negative feedback to counter the positive forcing. At low levels, the new term means a small difference … but as greenhouse gases rise, the negative feedback predominates, forcing values back down.

    Whole article here

  119. So Prog has prog-ressed. Makes sense.

  120. robc,

    This was posted on comments on Realclimate.org

    Comment [[“Runaway greenhouse theories contradict energy balance equations,” Miskolczi states. Just as the theory of relativity sets an upper limit on velocity, his theory sets an upper limit on the greenhouse effect, a limit which prevents it from warming the Earth more than a certain amount. ]]

    Response to comment
    Yes, it can only warm a couple hundred more degrees if all the carbon in the carbonate rocks were to be released, which won’t happen for a billion years. But it doesn’t look like this guy actually understands what a “runaway greenhouse effect” is. He should look up the planetary astronomy data on the history of Venus, where it happened.

  121. NM,

    He mentioned Venus in the article, so Im guessing he has an understanding of it. He is hoping for more Venus data so he can use it to help verify his equations.

  122. TallDave

    Can I waterboard you with immunity from prosecution? I figger you’d be turning in your loved ones soon enough.

  123. robc,

    The point, I believe, is that if Venus is an example of the boundary conditions, then we are not talking about a refutation of the basic findings which stay within a range of a few degrees.

    I am also pretty sure that the statement that actual temperatures lag the models is incorrect. Seems like the actual data is in the upper end of the confidence intervals from the IPCC.

  124. The point, I believe, is that all the major climate models need to be modified with the correct equation with the extra term.

    Just from my slightly-more-than-basic-but-not-a-math-major knowledge of Differential Equations, his adjustment is something Im familiar with. Ive seen that kind of boundary condition approximations made plenty of times. Usually it works okay, sometimes the term you drop is important. I think the client modellers need to readjust for that term and then see what there models say. He may or may not be write about the affect, but I like his math (from the description in the article). However, it wouldnt surprise me if there was a negative feedback term. Sharp spike in temp followed by longterm decline does seem to be the historical pattern.

  125. i’m still trying to figure out my adrian belew number.

  126. TallDave

    Can I waterboard you with immunity from prosecution? I figger you’d be turning in your loved ones soon enough.

    J sub D- You will have to prove that he’s an AQ member first. For that, you can waterboard him. Once he admits membersip to AQ, then, and only then, can you waterboard him to get more information from him.

  127. Interesting reasoning, TallDave.

    How about hot pokers – is that torture if done to a terrorist?

    Bamboo shoots? Beating the soles of the feet? Electric shocks?

    How about if you think he’s a terrorist, and then it turns out you’ve got the wrong guy? Is it not torture, and then retroactively becomes torture?

    You haven’t given a definition of torture. You’ve just demonstrated that you’ll sell out your principles through fear.

  128. Ali:
    or suspect him of being an AQ member.
    or maybe having been near where some suspected AQ members might have been.

  129. Updates from Wyoming here, and some pictures.

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/8/61411/81462/867/472032

    Wyoming is really beautiful.

  130. Ali:
    or suspect him of being an AQ member.
    or maybe having been near where some suspected AQ members might have been.

    May be we can define an OBL number a la erdos-bacon. The lower your (suspected) number is, the higher your torture level becomes.

  131. Updates from Wyoming here, and some pictures.

    I pretended I was a Democrat and didn’t RTFA. Just looked at the pics. Wyoming is definitely in the top 50 beautiful states. I don’t want to offend folks from the ugly states

    Admit it, you know if yours is one of the uglt states. 😉

  132. Whenever I throw in the immunity from prosecution thingee, nobody vol;unteers to be waterboarded.

    I can’t imagine why. It’s what the AQ detainees faced, so it can’t be torture. Right?

  133. parts of wyoming are beautiful. the eastern part looks like nebraska. i have some land in casper and that area is butt ugly.

    go to the west and it starts looking pretty spectacular.

  134. J sub D: Nothing we do can be torture.

    Because we don’t torture.

    It’s not circular reasoning – look over there! It’s a monkey!

  135. Why would a person living in SF own land in Casper? What, summer vacation?

  136. i’m unfamiliar with this word “vacation” that you use. is that arabic?

    it’s a leftover from an ex-spouse’s family. i don’t exactly visit it very often. 😉

  137. i’m unfamiliar with this word “vacation” that you use.

    Right now, I am unfamiliar with the word “summer” itself.

  138. And I don’t quite get the word “word”.

  139. Somebody please degine “get”.

  140. define, dammit! define.

  141. Can domeone define “degine”?

  142. Or “domeone”?

  143. i’m still trying to figure out my adrian belew number.

    The father of a girl I knew in high school was an engineer for Frank Zappa. So I guess my Belew number would be 3.

  144. Domeone – a person with a round-shaped head such as Charlie Brown or Oblio.

    Degine – to remove the gin from, as in a drink; often completed by the use of a chemical process

  145. Obama wins Wyoming about 60-40, and nets 3 delegates, although the third won’t be officially elected until the state convention in May.

  146. joe, you’re a Democrat, right? Who do you think will get their nomination?

  147. Obama wins Wyoming about 60-40

    In related news, the Pope is a Catholic.

  148. Edna,
    wyoming is a wonderland full of oil, natural gas and many valuable minerals. You might want to look into the rights you have with the property. If you gained great wealth your bacon-belew numbers might rise dramatically. hehehe

  149. Cesar:

    In related news, the Pope is a Catholic.

    I was expecting that from my line:
    “joe, you’re a Democrat, right?”

  150. In related news, the Pope is a Catholic.

    …and Hillary wins Texas.

    Oops, I mean, not really. Bad example.

  151. Someone,

    I think Obama will win, unless something dramatic changes.

    After Super Tuesday, Obama needed a series of big wins from then until March 4, and he got them.

    The Hillary needed a big win that day to pull back to even, and she didn’t get it. It’s arguable whether she got any win at all in Texas, since she ended up losing the delegates there.

    The March 4 contests were supposed to be her firewall – two big states that were supposed to be safe for her – and she ended up gaining a number of delegates that will end up being wiped out, probably, just by Wyoming and Mississippi.

  152. But, hey, I hear Pennsylvania is going to be her firewall!

  153. By Wyoming and Mississippi? That’s pathetic.

  154. Ah, but SWDWtLHJ:

    Wyoming and Mississippi don’t count.

  155. Ali, don’t pay any attention to people whose names are followed by “Congressman”. They’re morons.

  156. Name one time Obama won big in a large state that was Clinton’s turf.

  157. joe: Oh yeah I forgot. And neither do what…um…
    Washington, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Hawaii, Alaska, Washington DC, Illinois, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, Vermont, Maine, Connecticut, Louisiana, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Alabama, Georgia or South Carolina, right?

    I can see why. Those states suck.

  158. Obama won’t win the nomination for the same reason Reagan didn’t in 1976. Its really difficult to run against entrenched power, and Hillary is as close to an incumbent as possible without actually being one.

  159. Admit it, you know if yours is one of the uglt states. 😉

    The area East of Raleigh and West of the Coastline is pretty much an uglification zone due to the pig farmers. These farmers also lean heavily democratic. Not the progressive ideologues or moderate DNC types you may be imagining but backasswards hand out seeking agrarians who haven’t changed at all since 1933 in lifestyle or attitude, and pretty much do whatever they can to drag the rest of the state down.

    Fortunately, I live in a heavenly abode to the west of shitzland that is half industrial park, half college town.

  160. Screw this.

    Somebody remind me why the GOP is more libertarian leaning than the Dems. Wastes of oxygen like this coprolite spewing retard from Iowa, are enough to cast my ballot for [gaspo!] Hillary. Well Mr Straight-Talk, get those gums flapping.

  161. Cesar, it isn’t a state, but maybe Washington DC? She has lived there for the past sixteen years.

  162. J sub D, I haven’t seen much reason to think of the Republicans as even vaguely libertarian for a while.

  163. Washington DC isn’t big, and its 80%+ black.

  164. By the way Cesar, I do think the Obama ’08 = Reagan ’76 might be a pretty valid comparison. I don’t know, though, he might win the first go round. If not, he’ll probably win four years later from McCain.

  165. Washington, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Hawaii, Alaska, Washington DC, Illinois, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, Vermont, Maine, Connecticut, Louisiana, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Alabama, Georgia or South Carolina, right?

    I can see why. Those states suck.

    Hey fella, I kinda like Vermont.

  166. Cesar: Yeah it is, but that’s as close as I could come. Obama hasn’t won any of Clinton’s home turf states big, but on that front she hasn’t won any of his home turf states at all, unless I’m mistaken somewhow. In fact, she hasn’t really won any states big except Arkansas.

  167. brotherben, in that area, the big thing which is mined is the stuff they make kitty litter from. hardly worth it. i’m counting on the big lottery win to allow me to meet belew.

  168. How the hell can the GOP ever be libertarian? May be for something like 5 years in the 19th century. Otherwise it is all just talk. They are Tories for goodness sake! I want them Whigs back!

  169. In fact, she hasn’t really won any states big except Arkansas.

    Uh, theres California, New York, Ohio, Massachusetts, New Jersey….

  170. The last libertarian GOP President was Coolidge. Well, he was the last from either party really.

  171. Obama’s won 13 states with margins of 30% or more, and 6 with margins of 20-30%.

    Clinton has won 1 state (Arkansas) with a margin of 30% or more and 1 more (Oklahoma) with a margin of 20-30%

  172. Ali: yeah at least in the UK they have a third (libertarian) party … even if it is small and feeble and they can’t remember the last time they used it.

  173. Name one time Obama won big in a large state that was Clinton’s turf.

    That’s tough to do, Cesar, because Clinton’s turf keeps shrinking.

    Big states that, at one time, Hillary had a 20+ point lead in the polls that Obama ended up winning: Virginian,Washington, Missouri, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Georgia…that’s just off the top of my head.

    Your turn, now. Name a big state that was Obama’s turf that Hillary won.

  174. Someone- You mean these people? they kinda remind me of our own LP, except that ours look slightly better, only slightly.

  175. Obama won’t win the nomination for the same reason Reagan didn’t in 1976. Its really difficult to run against entrenched power, and Hillary is as close to an incumbent as possible without actually being one.

    That’s what you said about Iowa. And Super Tuesday.

  176. …and its 80%+ black

    Doesn’t count!

  177. Your turn, now. Name a big state that was Obama’s turf that Hillary won.

    Massachusetts.

  178. Hey fella, I kinda like Vermont.

    I tried to go to Vermont (the link), except that Vermont was forbidden. The real one is not, though. Was just there two days ago, and plan on going back tomorrow.

  179. Super Tuesday was a stalemate, btw, not some huge Obama victory.

  180. Ali – no I mean their Liberal Party. It’s still sort of a major party and it’s at least kind of what we think of as Libertarian here in the states.

  181. Nope, not Obama’s turf.

    Here, Cesar, some data instead of feelings;

    The “big state” myth
    by kos

    Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 01:24:47 PM PST

    2 voted but there was no campaign: MI and FL

    5 haven’t voted yet: TX, OH, PA, IN, and NC

    5 have voted for Obama: IL, WA, MO, VA, and GA

    and 5 have voted for Clinton: CA, NY, NJ, MA, and TN

    The whole “Big State” thing is a myth.

    Yeah, there’s some stupid spin floating around (from all sides) this cycle, but this is probably the dumbest. And it’s compounded by people who either wilfully disregard reality or simply don’t know better by saying “Obama can’t win big swing states.”

    Of those “big states” that already had real contests, the only ones that are “swing” states are Washington, Missouri and Virginia. And Obama won all three of those, two of them by massive margins.

    Update: For this discussion, “big state” is defined as the 17 states with more than 10 EVs.

    If you want to make it above 11, then you take out WA (Obama), IN (tbd), and Tennessee (Clinton), so it’s a wash. Make the cutoff above 12, then you lose MA (Clinton), so Clinton is down one. Make it above 13, and Virginia is out (Obama), so it’s even again. And so on. “More than 10” is as good a cutoff as any.

  182. Nope, not Obama’s turf.

    A Northeastern, liberal, state full of college towns where he had the backing of the sitting Governor and both sitting Senators? Not his turf? Really?

  183. Cesar, yeah Super Tuesday wasn’t a big Obama victory, but everything between Super Tuesday and March 4th was pretty big for Obama.

  184. Cesar | March 8, 2008, 4:41pm | #

    Super Tuesday was a stalemate, btw, not some huge Obama victory.

    In what has become a reliable pattern, Obama either wins outright, ties, or just barely loses Hillary’s firewalls, and then runs up the total in his states.

    Right now, the state-by-state record is 29-12 Obama. But, then, don’t forget to subtract the states that don’t count.

  185. ali, the closest you’ll get to libertarian is mccain. not because of anything he believes or is likely to try, but for the profound partisan fighting and gridlock that is certain to result. it’s not a satisfying mechanism, but the result is what counts- nothing major will get done.

    if congress were looking like it was going to go red, i’d be beating the drums for bho.

  186. Not his turf? Really?

    Really. In case you didn’t notice, Hillary and Obama split New England 3-3, and she once held 20 points leads in five of those states.

    I really hope she kept the receipt for that party she owns.

  187. Edna that would work except for the fact that Democrats have zero spine.

    If this were a Republican Congress with a Democratic President they’d never let him get anything done they didn’t approve of come hell or high water. See: the 1990s.

  188. I really hope she kept the receipt for that party she owns.

    She has, and she’ll present it happily at the convention.

  189. 5 haven’t voted yet: TX, OH, PA, IN, and NC

    2 of those have now voted. Obama won Texas, and Hillary won Ohio.

    She’ll win PA (probably), and Indiana (likely), and he’ll win North Carolina.

  190. Joe, Texas was at best a tie. Hillary won the primary.

  191. She has, and she’ll present it happily at the convention.

    There ya go, Cesar. ALL the states don’t count.

  192. Joe, Texas was at best a tie.

    Sure it was. He just left with more votes, that’s all.

  193. There ya go, Cesar. ALL the states don’t count.

    Joe, thanks to the 19th-Century like “Superdelegate” system used by the Democratic Party, in a close race thats absolutely correct.

  194. Indiana will be close because of the Chicagoland suburbs.

  195. I hope you’re right, joe, and Obama wins the nomination. I’m resigned to having a President (Democrat or Republican) that is pretty far from me in every way, but I can’t take hearing Hillary Clinton’s voice much more.

  196. I’m sick of living under a Clinton or a Bush, as I have for about 3/4ths of my entire life.

  197. If Obama and Hillary split the remaining pledged delegates, HIllary will need 65% of the Superdelegates.

    Assuming she doesn’t keep losing the ones who’d previously supported her, as she has been.

  198. I can see how that could alter one’s perception.

  199. She wouldn’t be in the race if she didn’t think she can wain. Its that simple.

  200. Just over half here.

    I’m Oldy McOld Olderson, apparently.

  201. Indiana will be close because of the Chicagoland suburbs.

    Good point, I might have written that off to early.

    North Carolina will not be close.

    Hillary will need to cream him, and not just beat him, in the Philly suburbs.

  202. Cesar, I’m sure she thinks she can win, but then again so did Romney. I’m hoping she’s just stupid like he was.

  203. Hillary Clinton is a lot of things, but stupid isn’t one of them I’m afraid.

  204. Will PA be an Ohio type win or just a squeaker for her, you think?

    No that wasn’t a fart joke.

  205. She wouldn’t be in the race if she didn’t think she can wain. Its that simple.

    And he would?

    Lightening could still strike, because it’s close enough, but she needed that big win on March 4 for it to be back at parity, and not even Rush Limbaugh could get it for her.

    It would take something close to dead girl/live boy.

  206. Will PA be an Ohio type win or just a squeaker for her, you think?

    I want to say it will be like Ohio, but Obama one Delaware where (from what I understand) the vast majority of the population lives in the Wilmington area, which is basically a Philly suburb. Since he won Delaware, he would have had to have done well there.

  207. Should read “won” not “one”.

  208. Someone,

    That’s the big question, and we don’t know yet. Not just “it’s tough to say,” but the answer has not been determined. Hillary’s got six weeks to round up her posse, and Obama’s got six weeks to charm the pants off of people.

    It’s looking more likely that there will be a redo in Florida and Michigan.

    But will they be caucuses or primaries?

  209. She might not be stupid, but I tend to have a pretty high bar for what I consider smart. I don’t discount the possibility that I might have to at some point judge any of the 2008 candidates to be MO-rons.

  210. She’s crafty, that’s what she is.

  211. edna- I agree with what Cesar said re the spineless democrats.

  212. Joe, Obama also has six weeks of his campaign making gaffes (“NAFTA-bashing is just politics”, Hillary Clinton a “monster”), having to defend his wife (“Proud of my country for the first time”, “America is just downright mean“) having to defend his middle name, having to answer questions about Farrakahn, having the Muslim smear emailed around, etc etc.

  213. The week before March 4 was the worst week of the entire election for Obama, and the result was about a 10 delegate net loss out of 330-something awarded.

    It probably won’t be the case that the rest of the campaign will be as consistently bad for him as that week.

  214. Regardless of what happens in the FL or MI redo-s, the vote totals will be closer than they were. Considering Obama is winning the popular vote total even now with FL included, I can’t imagine there’s much of a chance that will change.

    He’ll end this thing (minus superdelegates) with probably a lead in the state delegates, number of states won, and the popular vote. She could take that away with superdelegates, but I can’t think it’d be pretty if she did.

  215. It’s already turning around for him, too. He’s back within 1 in the Gallup daily tracking poll, and that was before this victory, and the upcoming one in Mississippi.

    He gives a great victory speech.

  216. Superdelegates? – just like Superheroes, except so boring that your eyes dry out!

    Kids – get your Superdelegates? now!

  217. joe, I’m not even sure how crafty she is. She’s made a bunch of blunders in the campaign – ignoring states Giuliani-style and other gaffes from start to finish. Part of that was she was up against a candidate that a lot of standard campaign tricks don’t work against, but that rationalization only goes so far.

  218. Regardless of what happens in the FL or MI redo-s, the vote totals will be closer than they were.

    43% in Michigan were “uncommitted” without anyone but Hillary’s name on the ballot in Michigan last time.

    But, while Florida will be closer, it should still be a big state for her, with all the elderly voters.

    I don’t think she can win over 2/3 of the Superdelegates unless she’s already the prohibitive favorite. If he goes in with an elected delegate lead over 100, I don’t think she can win even 60% of them.

  219. Why is such a 19th-century back room system used in the Democratic Party? It just seems like the Superdelegate system would fit the Republicans better.

  220. I wouldn’t want to get into an intra-departmental fight with her at the office, Someone.

    That one has powerful bureaucromancy.

  221. Cesar: From all that people say about candidates being nominated by the Republicans because it is their “turn”, it sure does seem like the superdelegates would fit that kind of next guy up coronation better.

  222. Maybe not crafty; maybe vicious.

  223. Why is such a 19th-century back room system used in the Democratic Party?

    In the 60s, the party threw the process wide open, with all sorts of democratic reforms, like the elimination of winner-take-all primaries. That gave us McGovern and Carter. So they created superdelegates just to make sure in the early 80s, but only a few. Since then, more and more positions were added to the list. I don’t think anybody foresaw a situation like this.

    The Republicans have unelected delegates, too – RNC members. They just don’t have as many, and they haven’t had a race where it mattered.

  224. Cesar: From all that people say about candidates being nominated by the Republicans because it is their “turn”, it sure does seem like the superdelegates would fit that kind of next guy up coronation better.

    Republican primary voters can be counted on to do as they’re told more than Democratic primary voters, so the GOP establishment doesn’t need them.

  225. It’s looking more likely that there will be a redo in Florida and Michigan.

    That is hardly a given. From here

    U.S. Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., who led the effort for an early primary, has said he is against a do-over. On Tuesday night, state Democratic Party Chairman Mark Brewer said it would require both Clinton and Obama and the national party to reach an agreement.

    Carl Levin has been around ~forever.

  226. joe: from the Huckabee(666) votes this time, that may be changing.

  227. Isn’t Levin in Clinton’s back pocket too?

  228. J sub D,

    It seems more likely than seating the delegates from the earlier contests.

    In order of likelihood, I’d say:

    1. Seating slates split 50/50 (or some split reflecting the national vote)

    2. Do over

    3. Florida’s delegates seated, but not Michigan’s (both candidates at least appeared on the ballot in Florida)

    4. No delegates seated from those states

    5. Seating delegates from both states based on the old elections

  229. Someone,

    The Republican Party is in meltdown mode this year – how else does apostate McCain get nominated? – and all the rules have gone out the window.

  230. Joe, but in a way McCain was sort of “next in line”.

  231. Maybe, Cesar. In a sense he is.

    But then, Pat Buchanan wasn’t “next in line” in 1996.

  232. Look at it this way. McCain, whatever you think of him, has done more for the Republican Party than a neophyte like Romney or (way) outside-the-beltway Huckabee.

  233. Yeah, I wonder why people keep referring to a system created in the 70s as “19th century”.

    Also, IIRC, Mondale had a plurality but not a majority of the regular delegates in 1984, going into the convention. A small lead over Hart. He took nearly all the superdelegates and won the nomination in a landslide.

    The whole purpose of the superdelegates was to benefit insiders like Mondale and Clinton against upstarts like Hart and Obama.

    I agree with joe, though. If Obama has enough of a lead, the supers wont turn against him, as the risk is it destroying the party, 1968 convention style. However, if Clinton can win some states down the stretch and get some momentum, even though Obama will have a reasonable lead still, she may be able to pull off the win with the superdelegates.

  234. joe,

    So, you’re saying that GOP voters blindly follow the leader, except when they don’t. Got that.

    Also, when the Dems rig their system to avoid the voters nominating someone the party doesn’t want, that’s strategy, but when the GOP does it it’s a crime against democracy. Got that too.

  235. Changing the subject a bit, after we withdraw from Iraq and the Iraq branch office of al-Qaeda takes over, maybe they’ll point to the mass graves made during the US occupation as justification for their actions.

  236. The father of a girl I knew in high school was an engineer for Frank Zappa. So I guess my Belew number would be 3.

    Wouldn’t that be 4?

    Let see…Jimmy Carl Black worked at an Albuquerque record store when I was a kid…so I think I can claim a Belew number of 3.

  237. SWWDWTLHJ,

    Degine – to remove the gin from, as in a drink; often completed by the use of a chemical process

    I just drink the drink to degine it.

  238. robc,

    robc | March 8, 2008, 1:41pm | #
    The point, I believe, is that all the major climate models need to be modified with the correct equation with the extra term.

    I was not arguing with that point.
    If his math is correct, then, of course the models should be modified…unless the difference is negligible in the range they are working in, I guess.

    The only reason I posted that comment from Realclimate, was it pointed to the fact that the “runaway greenhouse” thing is a strawman of sorts in the AGW debate since no one (serious) is claiming we are in danger of a runaway greenhouse planet.

  239. No, Chris. They blindly follow the leader, except when there is none.

  240. My, you are whiny today.

  241. If Obama has enough of a lead, the supers wont turn against him

    That is the question: what is “enough.”

    Remember, in 1984, Mondale came roaring back after being behind, and brought a string of victories into the convention, after Hart’s little…escapade. Mondale was acknowledged as the winner before that convention even stated, and the superdelegates just made it official.

  242. I can usually back-engineer the dumbest misrepresentation Chris Potter makes of what I’ve written back to the original, but “Also, when the Dems rig their system to avoid the voters nominating someone the party doesn’t want, that’s strategy, but when the GOP does it it’s a crime against democracy,” is just dangling there. I can’t even begin to guess what this is supposed to distort.

  243. after Hart’s little…escapade

    WTF is it with pols and their dicks? The list of politicians who have been seriously harmed by not keeping the one eyed zipper snake caged is huge.

    Bill Clinton
    Gary Hart
    Kwame Kilpatrick (Detroit Mayor)
    Mark Foley
    Larry Craig

    Feel free to add to this list. Googling prohibited. From our own admittedly imperfect brains, politicians who let sex harm their career.

    Oh yeah,
    Wilbur Mills

  244. Mondale came roaring back after being behind, and brought a string of victories into the convention, after Hart’s little…escapade.

    Hart’s “Monkey Business” escapade was in ’87.

  245. Googling prohibited. From our own admittedly imperfect brains, politicians who let sex harm their career.

    Bob Packwood

  246. Former Richmond Mayor “Reverend” Leonidas Young.

    Well, sort of. He stole money from his church to get a penile implant, does that help?

  247. should add to the end of that “does that help him make the list?”

  248. Former Richmond Mayor “Reverend” Leonidas Young.

    Well, sort of. He stole money from his church to get a penile implant, does that help?

    should add to the end of that “does that help him make the list?”

    Yes and Yes.

  249. I guess I can add President Thomas “Sally Hemmings” Jefferson and President Grover “Love Child” Cleveland to the list as well.

  250. I guess we could add former Oregon Governor, Secretary of Transportation, and Portland Mayor Neil Goldschmidt to the list. Turns out he was doing his 14 year-old babysitter while he was Mayor back in the ’70’s. While his scandal predated most of his career and didn’t come out until a few years ago well after he was out of office, at the time he was still one of the most respected and influential people in Oregon politics.

  251. Cesar-I see your point about “in other news” because everyone knew Obama would win Wyoming. But big picture here: a black guy just won a state with a black population of, about, well, Antoine, Michael and Anita…

  252. Edna that would work except for the fact that Democrats have zero spine.

    they have one, it’s just in the attic waiting for a dem presidency. and at that point, we may as well say, “welcome to brussels!”

  253. That Leonidas Young, he was the MAN! (With a little help from his church)
    Hey Cesar, I demand a credit for that! 😉

  254. Question for discussion: why do the Republicans have more spine than the Dems (and do they?)? I mean, we all reference economic theory here. Politicians seem to just want to get elected, so why can the GOP buck up more than the Dems? What explains it?

  255. If politicians are self-interested and want to preserve their jobs, why do Republicans feel, or rightly discern, they can buck public opinion more than the Dems (which is what I gather is meant by “having spine.”)?

    My answer: the nation is more conservative than liberal, and conservatives are easier to “whip up” than liberals are.

    btw-Cesar-I mean credit for reminding you of old smooth talking Leonidas, not for the implant 🙂

  256. Good point MNG, on the other hand he won in a state with about as many Democrats as there are black people. Something tells me Wyoming Democrats are eastern transplants.

  257. they have one, it’s just in the attic waiting for a dem presidency. and at that point, we may as well say, “welcome to brussels!”

    Hey, we seem to be getting the stagnating economy already. All we need now is shitty nationalized healthcare and 10% unemployment.

  258. As to the Brussels thing, I think those things ebb both ways. In the 1980-s and 1990’s many European nations went towards the privatization route. We are not destined to float towards their way, though laissez-faire is, I think rightfully, probably discredited for the next couple of centuries…

  259. All we need now is shitty nationalized healthcare and 10% unemployment.

    these are both part of the democratic party platform.

  260. Cesar-I see your point about “in other news” because everyone knew Obama would win Wyoming. But big picture here: a black guy just won a state with a black population of, about, well, Antoine, Michael and Anita…

    MNG –
    FYI, Anita moved to Idaho.

  261. “these are both part of the democratic party platform.”

    Yeah edna, because under the last democratic president unemployment was clearly double digits…And capitalism really broke down…Classical economics was really vindicated…

    Oh,wait!

  262. “FYI, Anita moved to Idaho.”

    That damn HRC and her dirty tricks!

  263. Yeah edna, because under the last democratic president

    Clinton was an Eisenhower Republican. His administration was a dollar-store Reagan Revolution.

  264. FYI, Anita moved to Idaho.

    My joke was going to be “Michael is a quadroon and Anita is a republican, so that is only 1.25 black democrats.” But, apparently Anita has moved out of state, so there is no point anymore.

  265. mng, as usual, you make my point better than I could have. split government works.

  266. Cheap oil and the tech/internet boom helped a lot too MNG.

  267. joe,

    I was parodizing your 5:18 post, which approvingly spoke of the Democrats’ move away from winner-take-all primaries to superdelegates “just to make sure” they didn’t nominate another McGovern.

  268. What was the unemployment rate during the two years the Dems had the Presidency and majority? Or for that matter, what was it under arch-socialist LBJ?

    http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm675.cfm

    And Cesar, at least such innovation and such can appear under the stifling rule of a (gasp) Democrat!

  269. Cesar,

    Come on, don’t you know that the president is personally responsible for economic growth in this country?

    I love when Democrats point to the Clinton administration as proof that Democrats know how to run the economy. I ask them to name one thing Clinton did — not something Congress did, but him personally — that caused or helped the 90s boom. The look on their faces is just priceless, sort of like the look on a dog’s face when you record its owner’s voice and then play back the recording when the owner’s not around.

  270. MNG,

    Now how come you skipped the Carter administration?

  271. My point: you can have a government that believes in government expansion in some areas, and, believe it or not, the economy can flourish…

    Some libertarian writers would have you think that such a leader would NECESSARILY produce abject poverty almost instantely…More reason to suspect these folks…

  272. Chris, my biggest point is is that Clinton did NOT govern like a liberal.

    Just as Goldwater said the Eisenhower administration was a “dime store New Deal”, the Clinton years were a dollar store Reagan Revolution.

  273. Yeah, Carter had a high unemployment rate, but lower than Reagan…Whatchathinkaboutthat?

  274. MNG you’d have to be insane to take the economy of 1980 over the economy of 1988.

  275. Carter was rated higher in unemployment than Reagan 1984 is what I mean…

    Unlike some free market “true believers” I don’t make such grand claims as that if any liberal democrat gets in and does x and y the economy will fold. I have it easy, because I don’t pretend to understand how “it will all work.” Actually, the performance of the economy is much more complicated than these guys predict…

  276. I ask them to name one thing Clinton did — not something Congress did, but him personally — that caused or helped the 90s boom.

    got a blowjob, signed into law the requirement that he disclose this in a civil suit, perjured himself while subject to this requirement, and along with every other scandal, got congress to spend the vast majority of its attention on the scandals rather than sticking their fingers further into the governing of the country.

    vote gridlock in ’08!

  277. got a blowjob, signed into law the requirement that he disclose this in a civil suit, perjured himself while subject to this requirement, and along with every other scandal, got congress to spend the vast majority of its attention on the scandals rather than sticking their fingers further into the governing of the country.

    And you know what? The country survived despite the lack of attention to governing. Flourished, even.

    I love how when the federal government shut down in 1995 it affected, basically, 0.1% of the population. Almost nobody noticed.

  278. “I ask them to name one thing Clinton did — not something Congress did, but him personally — that caused or helped the 90s boom.”

    Well, shit, aren’t you guys supposed to believe in the value of free trade? I am against free trade in that sense, and, come on, NAFTA would never have passed with Jerry Brown instead of Bill…

    And all that “era of big government” stuff would not have been heard from Jerry, I can guarantee you!

  279. Its an interesting alternative history to think of. What would the ’90s have been like when Jerry Brown as President?

  280. “With’ not “when”.

  281. One reason I actually like Bill Clinton is that you guys shit on him for not “doing enough for capitalism” and the guys like me that worked for jerry brown learned to hate him as a capitalist tool…I don’t know how to break this to ya, but he was more friendly to your position than you understand…

  282. joe:

    You forgot the greatest sex scandal involving a politician ever… Jerry Springer, while mayor of Cincinnati, wrote a check to a prostitute…

    Nephilium

  283. he was more friendly to your position than you understand…

    He was, at least when Newt Gingrich was holding his feet to the fire.

  284. Hey, Cesar, he was for the flat tax before it was cool, that is probably the only thing (other than non-war-mongering) lib would like

  285. MNG I wouldn’t have guessed Brown was for a flat tax. I was 11 or so at the time of the ’92 primary, all I remember is he seemed like he would be at least as entertaining as Clinton to watch in office.

    I did find this on you tube though.

  286. WTF is it with pols and their dicks? The list of politicians who have been seriously harmed by not keeping the one eyed zipper snake caged is huge.

    Bill Clinton
    Gary Hart
    Kwame Kilpatrick (Detroit Mayor)
    Mark Foley
    Larry Craig

    Feel free to add to this list. Googling prohibited. From our own admittedly imperfect brains, politicians who let sex harm their career.

    Oh yeah,
    Wilbur Mills

    Wayne Hays.

    Yeah, I broke your “Googling prohibited” rule but that was to get the story. And I had the spelling wrong.

  287. MNG, I remember Jerry Brown talking about the flat tax when he was running.

  288. MNG,

    See, there you go. Woof woof.

    I wasn’t asking for proof that Clinton was better for the economy than a Republican would have been. So you need not something Bill Clinton allowed to happen that Jerry Brown wouldn’t have, but something he did for the economy that, say, George H.W. Bush or Bob Dole wouldn’t have.

  289. That should read “I was asking for proof…”

  290. “WTF is it with pols and their dicks? The list of politicians who have been seriously harmed by not keeping the one eyed zipper snake caged is huge.”

    There’s a typo in the fifth word: the spelling you’re looking for is “guys”.

  291. Speak for yourself, Mr Sanchez.

    I rule my weiner with an iron fist.

  292. Hey, lay off the weiner ruling while you’re typing!

  293. Julian, while it’s perfectly true that all guys get into some kind of trouble or another on account of letting the little head do the thinking, it is (for the most part) only politicians who have their careers ended over it.

    The rest of us just get our faces slapped, our bank accounts emptied or somesuch, but, in general, we can recover.

    For a politico to see his chances of reelection forever terminated it must be like the end of life as he knows it.

  294. correcting a few mis-perceptions even further, Mondale limped to the finish line in ’84 behind in popular vote.

    From The Observer:

    In that ’84 campaign, the Obama role was played by Gary Hart, whose “new ideas” fueled a stunning 13-point victory in New Hampshire that rocketed him to the top of the race and, within weeks, brought Walter Mondale — who had entered the campaign as the most prohibitive favorite in primary history — to the brink of capitulation. A Hart sweep of Super Tuesday in early March 1984 would have flushed the former vice president from contention, but when Mondale narrowly won two states that day (to Hart’s seven), the press declared him reborn. When the primaries and caucuses finally finished in June, it was a draw: Both men had won about the same number of pledged delegates and Hart had even edged Mondale in the combined popular vote.

    But the nomination was Mondale’s because most of the superdelegates — party leaders and elected officials who account for 20 percent of all convention votes — had been with him from the start, long before Hart had emerged as a viable option.

    “My wife and I called every one of them personally between the California primary (on June 2) and the convention, and overwhelmingly they said, ‘I wish I hadn’t committed to Mondale, but I’m committed,'” Hart said.

    A damn shame too as Hart is the closest thing to a libertarian you’ll get out of the Democratic party this side of Grover Cleveland.

  295. .
    Firing Powers was a mistake, Obama has shown himself to be subservient to the PIAPS.
    Great post. Obama’s aide was right. Hillary is a monster. Of course not the same kind of monster as Hitler, Mao or Stalin, but a monster nonetheless.
    .
    absurd thought –
    God of the Universe says
    don’t call monsters monsters

    never expose their evil
    never upset a monster

    .
    absurd thought –
    God of the Universe says
    claim to care for people

    call yourself progressive
    your policies hurt poor folk

    .
    absurd thought –
    God of the Universe says
    elect women presidents

    who cover for their husbands
    who rape other women

    .
    if you’re MAD
    punish your country
    VOTE for Hillary

    .
    http://www.hillaryproject.com/

    Go here and watch ‘The Hillary Show’ with Howard Dean. It’s Hillarious!

    http://www.stophernow.com/

    http://absurdthoughtsaboutgod.blogspot.com/

    🙂
    .

  296. alan,

    It didn’t really matter, did it? Reagan would have pummeled Gary Hart in 1984 just as badly as he did Walter Mondale.

  297. we all reference economic theory here

    Doesn’t freakin mean that they understand it, tho.

    Hell – Otto has a better grasp of philosophy.

  298. moose – Otto from the Simpsons, Otto from Repo Man, or Otto von Bismarck?

  299. Joe, I’m surprised you think Hill will win PA.

    Obama’s likely to win Philly 80-20 and Hillary just can’t make that up over the rest of the state.

  300. Some good news this morning for libertarians:

    Woody Jenkins won the first round of voting for the vacant Congressional seat in Louisiana’s 5th CD. (The incumbent Republican resigned to take a job in the private sector). The run-off is in two weeks. Jenkins finished with 49% just shy of avoiding the run-off. The next highest vote-getter received 26%.

    Jenkins was featured in a front page story in Reason Magazine in the early 1980s as “America’s libertarian legislator.” And a number of libertarians worked on his legislative staff, including, believe it or not, Michael Emerling.

    Jenkins is a firebrand conservtive, and not consistently libertarian these days. But still, he’ll be a great addition to the Congress.

    And just imagine if we elect Tom McClintock in ’08, as well: McClintock, Jenkins and Jeff Flake going after President Hussein Obama on a daily basis.

  301. Chris
    1. Clinton, and other Dem Presidents, do many things that could effect the economy that GOP Presidents probably would not have done (Family Leave, minimum wage increases, tax increases, spending increases, regulation, etc). My point is that many of the things they did did not seem to cause us to spiral into economic oblivion as many ardent free marketers seem to predict would have happened or will happen.
    2. NAFTA was barely passed if you remember, and I don’t think Bush the First could have got it through a Democratic controlled Congress the way a Democrat (Clinton) could and did. Bill lobbied for it very aggresively if you remember, and the fact that it was a Dem President doing the arm-twisting surely made it easier for all those Dems who voted for it to do so.
    3. How is Beatrix (Ms. Potter)? My kid loves her stuff.

  302. fluffy
    I hope you are right, but aren’t the unions in PA strong in the Dem party, and don’t they back HRC? Also, where does their Governor stand? In Ohio the governor there backed HRC and it really hurt Obama I hear…

  303. Donderdo
    What is it with the “Hussein” stuff? Do you guys who do that have so little respect for those you are speaking to that you think we will go “Oh my god, that guy has a Muslim sounding name, therefore he must be a Muslim, and not one of those good ones we are trying to help in Iraq, but one of those bad ones like the guy we killed. By God that name is the exact one shared by that bad guy, therefore this guy must be an evil Muslim guy.”

    The right is a trip.

  304. Mr. Nice Guy Barack Hussein Obama is a jihadist. His father was a radical Muslim. He also attended madrassas where they prayed to Allah. Better not vote for him unless you enjoy hummus. He’ll take us back to the seventh century. Real libertarians should be opposed to Islamofascists.

  305. OK, that Dondero is clearly an imposter. That’s not cool, use an altered name if you want to parodize him.

  306. OK, that Dondero is clearly an imposter. That’s not cool, use an altered name if you want to parodize him.

    Seconded.
    Parody —> OK and sometimes funny as hell.
    Posting as another —> Juvenile chicken shit.

  307. The scary thing is, Dondero actually did post something like that on his real, actual blog.

  308. alan,

    It didn’t really matter, did it? Reagan would have pummeled Gary Hart in 1984 just as badly as he did Walter Mondale.

    Sure he would have been pummeled, but more important than winning a particular race is the ability to shift the power base within a party.

  309. The scary thing is, Dondero actually did post something like that on his real, actual blog.

    That’s why I didn’t think it was a spoof the first couple times I read it. He’s sounded that stupid before, but usually late at night after a few drinks, or after he’s gotten all worked up about something.

    Having said that, let me third Chris and J sub D – if you’re going to parody someone, please have the courtesy to make it clear.

  310. Apropos of the discussion on Kansas/progressive rock, Providence has seen fit to add some new videos to YouTube of their last concert with the original 6 members of the band before Steve Walsh quit.

    Great music. Though some really strange stage presence (which for me makes it all the more amusing). Killer fugue-like instrumental section in the middle.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=SwSZYRQwZmg

  311. Chris Potter:

    It didn’t really matter, did it? Reagan would have pummeled Gary Hart in 1984 just as badly as he did Walter Mondale.

    Hart would have lost. I don’t think there’s any way he could have lost as bad as Mondale, though.

  312. I mean, unless the sexy-time fun came out during the election. Maybe then.

  313. You guys quit spoofing me or I’ll spoof joe and Cesar again.

    Then I’ll sue Urkobold. The precedent of Edward v. Urkobold (358 U.S. 697) should work in my favor.

    Disclaimer: This is not the real Eric Dondero, though I have read his posts on occasion.

  314. I like Hart primarily for his ideas on downsizing the military, emphasizing the National Guard and a more Constitutional defense structure. His partnership with William S Lind on these issues would have moved the country away from its international interventionism.

    Like you said, he probably would have lost to Reagan. But the Democrats would have staked out a better overall defense posture and the neocons in that party would have been on the defensive.

  315. TallDave Can I waterboard you with immunity from prosecution? I figger you’d be turning in your loved ones soon enough.

    I’d be more than happy to undergo the process voluntarily (as others, including journalists, have), even in the absence of any suspicion of terrorism on my part, say for the nominal refusal to speak a certain word which I am told in advance will make them stop. I bet I’d last longer than Khalid Sheik Muhammed.

  316. TallDave,
    Let us know how it turns out.

    If you really want to be tough, though, you should probably tell them instead of a “safe word” they should stop when they think they have all of your secrets.

  317. Wow, this is just great. It’s now come to a point, where if I make a benign simple news-oriented post about some possible good news for libertarians, I still get spoofed. I still get some joker making posts under my name.

    The post above about Obama being a “Jihadist” was obviously not from me.

  318. Funny, not a single one of you here has any comment whatsoever about Woody Jenkins winning his first-round election. This is huge news. But you guys here would rather talk about bullshit topics, spam others, and make cynical jokes.

    Hey WAKE UP! We just won one yesterday. That’s right. We libertarians scored a victory of sorts.

    Life doesn’t always suck.

  319. TallDave –
    As I posted – Can I waterboard you with immunity from prosecution? I figger you’d be turning in your loved ones soon enough. [Emphasis added since it appears you missed my point]

    As soon as you start to catch your breath, here we go again! All night long and into the next day. I’ve got immunity, so brain damage from oxygen deprivation is not an issue to me; you might feel differently. I think the point I’m making is fairly obvious. Neither you or said journalists faced what I’m proposing. That is, what the detainees faced.

  320. Let me guess, the candidates Dondero supports are unabashedly pro-war?

  321. Eric Dondero:

    Jenkins is a firebrand conservtive, and not consistently libertarian these days.

    There’s a conservative in congress. Whoop-de-god-damn-do.

    Hey WAKE UP! We just won one yesterday. That’s right. We libertarians scored a victory of sorts.

    You got a mouse in your pocket?

    Still no answer on the “President Hussein Obama” thing, huh?

  322. Did everybody enjoy going back on D.S.T. with 11 days of winter still to go?

    This paper (pdf) takes advantage of a natural experiment in the state of Indiana to provide the first empirical estimates of DST effects on electricity consumption in the United States since the mid-1970s.

    Focusing on residential electricity demand, we conduct the first-ever study that uses micro-data on households. The dataset consists of more than 7 million observations on monthly billing data for nearly all households in southern Indiana for three years. Our main finding is that-contrary to the policy’s intent-DST increases residential electricity demand.

    You can’t make up stuff this good.

  323. We can once again thank one of the the worst Presidents of the 20th Century, Woodrow Wilson, for the “wonderful” innovation that is DST.

  324. Cesar:
    Let me guess, the candidates Dondero supports are unabashedly pro-war?

    Yep, that’s it. From Woody Jenkins’ webpage:

    Strong National Defense
    Woody believes a strong national defense is essential to our survival as a free people and that “eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.”

    America must keep our nuclear arsenal as a deterrent and must prevent rogue states, such as Iran and North Korea, from acquiring such weapons. We must deploy a missile shield in order to protect us from nuclear missiles.

    We must keep a strong Navy and superior air power. Our ground forces must always be the best trained and best equipped in the world. As the father-in-law of a Marine Corps infantry commander, Woody believes that we must support our troops in the field 100 percent.

    Woody supports the war on terror and President Bush’s policy in Iraq and Afghanistan and opposes a fixed timetable for withdrawal. The President should be guided by his ground commanders.

    and:

    Second Amendment
    Coming Soon!

    when a conservative can write that much on the war and nothing on the second amendment, you can guess what’s important to them. Anyone care to guess where he comes down on Gay Marriage or Immigration?

  325. At least we don’t have it as bad as Venezuela. Chavez changed his country’s clock in such a way that now they are an hour BEHIND the rest of South America. For example, Argentina and Brazil are 1 1/2 hours (yes, he couldn’t even round off) ahead of “Boliviaran” time even though they are to the west.

  326. Woody believes a strong national defense is essential to our survival as a free people and that “eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.”

    I believe the quote about vigilance was originally not directed at phantom foreign enemies, but against the enroachment of domestic government on peoples rights.

  327. Eric Dondero:

    Wow, this is just great. It’s now come to a point, where if I make a benign simple news-oriented post about some possible good news for libertarians, I still get spoofed. I still get some joker making posts under my name.

    He’s surprised that after all the name calling, griping, spoofing, ignoring posters whose arguments he doesn’t want to answer (with stalker-like demands for phone numbers added in for good measure), and calling anyone who is pro-war libertarian just for that position that he’s used up all his good will around here? What a fucking retard.

  328. Baked – fish called wanda!

  329. Devo is my favorite prog band.

    Would Marshall Tucker be prog-country?

  330. Cesar,

    DST wasn’t standardized nationwide (except during WW1 & WW2) until 1966, IIRC. I don’t think you can blame Wilson for that.

  331. Here’s a Web Exhibit about the wonders of DST. Talk about shilling for the status quo!

  332. Chris-

    My point is Wilson started it in World War I.

    That and I never miss a chance to bash Wilson.

  333. Cesar, come on. He was a fellow historian, even serving as President of the American Historical Association. Have you no professional courtesy? 😉

  334. Cesar, come on. He was a fellow historian, even serving as President of the American Historical Association. Have you no professional courtesy? 😉

    Yeah, and he also endorsed Birth of a Nation as the REAL story behind reconstruction.’Nuff said. Its like asking a modern-day biologist to give professional courtesy to 19th Century “racial scientists”.

  335. Chris Potter:

    Have you no professional courtesy? 😉

    Cesar, quit picking on my fellow mathematician, to whom I am careful to express the requisite amount of professional courtesy.

  336. BTW, don’t tell me to judge Wilson in the context of his time. He was a racist even for the time he lived in, and thats a pretty low bar already.

  337. Cesar, I won’t defend Wilson. I only defend mathematicians or other nerds.

  338. SWDWTLHJ,

    It’s all right, I’m used to being oppressed. I’m sure there will be a black president and a woman president before there’s ever a mathematician president.

    Maybe we should draft Brian Greene…

  339. Chris,
    Hey, at least McKinley had an original proof of the Pythagorean Theorem. That’s something.

  340. True. My own mathematical credentials are currently in peril anyway, as I’m having a hell of a time trying to figure out how to make a Greek letter bold in LaTeX for this paper that’s due first tomorrow morning…

  341. Chris,
    Try this. It helped a lot when I was writing my dissertation. I think though the bold greek letter should be the same as bolding any letter. (\textbf{whatever}, if I’m right) I don’t recall ever needing to embolden a greek letter. Of course I was using a lot of german gothic letters (Fraktur) in my book.

  342. crap sorry, that should have said:
    \textbf{whatever}

  343. I already tried that. It’s in the middle of an equation array (ie, in Math Mode). {\bf\omega} just leaves a regular little omega.

    I just found a [way too complicated] work-around at a LaTeX FAQ site, so it’s all good now.

  344. {bfomega}

    Huh? Why are backslashes being filtered out? Well, you know what I mean.

  345. Did you use the old “turn it into text in the middle of an equation” trick?

  346. I think that’s what I did. All that matters is that my paper will look muy professional with bold type for vectors, while those who are nominally my peers turn in papers littered with chintsy arrows over the vectors.

    [/math snob]

  347. LOL!

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