Brussels to Ban Heat, Save Earth

Freezing British smokers, thrown out of pubs thanks to the smoking ban, have taken to huddling by outdoor heaters. Obviously, it's time to ban those:

A vote in Brussels today is expected to call on the European Commission to abolish the heaters to help to tackle climate change. Such a move could cost the pub and catering trade dear.

Pubs spent about £85 million on patio heaters after the smoking ban was introduced last year. Besides forcing smokers into the cold there is concern that a ban on patio heaters could bring a significant cash loss to pubs, cafés and restaurants.

Here's a thought: If you want to build a movement against climate change, it's probably best not to make a nation of smokers desperate for a bit of global warming.

Comments

[sv]

what about construction workers or union members on strike or a thousand other non-smoker-enabling "legitimate" uses?

Experts claim that patio heaters are being singled out unfairly and that their impact on global warming is minimal. Eric Johnson, national expert reviewer for the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, said that televisions emitted more carbon dioxide. Using government figures, he said that patio heaters accounted for 22,200 tonnes of CO2 , 0.002 per cent of total emissions in Britain.

[J sub D]

Aside from the smokers who deserve all the indignities we can think of, does the connstruction trade get a pass? How about valets?

If were gonna be seious, let's go where the money is. Indoor heaters.

[stuartl]

Maybe as a way to save energy they could put walls and ceilings around the heaters. That way smokers can be happy and the EU can still save the world. It's a win-win.

[Fluffy]

Eventually, they will ban the use of heaters in movie theatres or other "frivolous" places.

This is because Fate wishes to make every absurd regulation Rand employed as deliberate parody come true.

[sv]

reading the article, it says that a home-depot-type store has already announced it will stop selling the heaters after stock runs out because of 'damage to the environment'.. people (the customers they're pandering to) actually believe this is part of an effective approach? it's irrational.

[sv]

stuartl, if they put walls and ceilings up around the heaters, wouldn't that be 'indoor smoking'? how about a ban on all outdoor heating, like campfires? i dont know whether to laugh or cry.

[Rhywun]

A nation of stiff upper lips has become a nation of wilting flowers... patio heaters just to take a smoke break??

That way smokers can be happy

Clearly, you miss the point.

[Windtell]

I was in UK in August and was happy for the heaters, it was damn cold and rainy and I had to go outside for my ciggy.

Despite this, they still claimed that London weather really isn't like that all the time.

[sv]

we need 1) cleaner electricity sources, such as modern nuclear plants combined with some viable nuke-waste disposal plan, and 2) much more efficient, cleaner-burning (if burning anything) trucks, cars, etc.

in that order. all these byzantine restrictions are not only grossly intrusive but ineffective.

[Abdul]

Despite this, they still claimed that London weather really isn't like that all the time.

No, with enough outdoor heaters and global warming, London weather will soon be like South Miami.

[Fluffy]

Please note that this is one extremely solid reason why, if I were to concede that global warming is true, before signing on to any treaty requiring CO2 reduction or any national plan to set targets for such a reduction, I would require that the method to be used to meet the targets be exactly spelled out to the last detail.

I would accept some sort of carbon tax to deal with the externality of carbon production, if it were uniformly applied from the first molecule of carbon.

But I simply won't accept any sort of system of planning, any rationing system, any licensing system, or any system that empowers any government official to distinguish between a "good" use of combusion and a "bad" one.

If that means that the icecaps melt while we're arguing over the right solution, then that's what it means.

Because anything other than an absolutely equally applied carbon tax with no loopholes or offsets and no permitting process will inevitably lead to asshole bureaucrats making unilateral judgments to use the carbon issue to control behaviors they don't like. No matter how the system is set up or what controls are on it or how much "public input" is invited or whatever.

[Taktix?]

equally applied carbon tax with no loopholes or offsets and no permitting process

Yeah, good luck with that one...

[Russ 2000]

Despite this, they still claimed that London weather really isn't like that all the time.

the weather is fine, it's your attitude that's bad.

[professional lobbyist]

Because anything other than an absolutely equally applied carbon tax with no loopholes or offsets and no permitting process will inevitably lead to asshole bureaucrats making unilateral judgments to use the carbon issue to control behaviors they don't like. No matter how the system is set up or what controls are on it or how much "public input" is invited or whatever.

Hey! What are you trying to do, put me out of a job?

[Nick]

My biggest concern all along about the rising sea levels caused by global warming was land availability for all the people, animals, and farming. I don't know why it never occurred to me that Greenland and Antarctica will now have more usable land available.

I feel better now. Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.

[proessional civil servant]

Because anything other than an absolutely equally applied carbon tax with no loopholes or offsets and no permitting process will inevitably lead to asshole bureaucrats making unilateral judgments to use the carbon issue to control behaviors they don't like. No matter how the system is set up or what controls are on it or how much "public input" is invited or whatever.

Bastard! What, you want me to have a boring job? To buy my own lunches?

[Windtell]

Russ 2000 | January 31, 2008, 11:35am | #
Despite this, they still claimed that London weather really isn't like that all the time.

the weather is fine, it's your attitude that's bad.

hmm, I fail to see how my attitude caused August temperatures of around 10C (50F) and heavy rain.

[Hat Trick]

Fluffy for president.

[tim]

They'll be begging for the heaters, global warming and all in five years when we're in another Minimum and the Thames is frozen over.

[proessional journalist]

Because anything other than an absolutely equally applied carbon tax with no loopholes or offsets and no permitting process will inevitably lead to asshole bureaucrats making unilateral judgments to use the carbon issue to control behaviors they don't like. No matter how the system is set up or what controls are on it or how much "public input" is invited or whatever.

But then you'd only have one controversy rather than many! Our circulation is already down, and shudder to think what would happen if we had fewer interesting stories to sell. There's only so much money in dead white girls, Britney Spears and Tom Cruise.

If we adopted your policy we'd have to do layoffs. Our poor employees! You heartless libertarians are just taking food out of the mouths of the poor!

[Cesar]

I don't know why it never occurred to me that Greenland and Antarctica will now have more usable land available.

Good luck packing up New York City and moving it to Greenland.

[Shane]

Damn, Is there anything they can't do in the name of the WoD, WoT, and WoGW? I'm waiting for the day they give me a ticket for public flatulence(un-authorized release of methane into atmosphere) while taking an un-prescribed advil and reading the quran. Piled up, it might cost me 20 years if i step outside.

[Cesar]

I think Taktix said it best on another thread--its sad that the most prophetic work in the last 20 years was Demolition Man.

[Reinmoose]

Is it just me, or are the stories on H&R today an extra few levels of messed up higher than they usually are?

[Nick]

"Good luck packing up New York City and moving it to Greenland."

I'll be in Greenland offering them a spot. If they're too proud to make the trip, that's their problem.

[Nick]

I'm currently petitioning the Danish government to sell Greenland to me. New name: Rainbow Puppy Island.

Sorry, Reinmoose, it's bigger than Oahu.

[stuartl]

if they put walls and ceilings up around the heaters, wouldn't that be 'indoor smoking'?

Not if the EU declared indoor smoking areas as officially outdoors. That way the greatest good for the nanny state would be met. They would be both saving the earth AND protecting the health of smokers (by keeping them out of the cold). Definitely a win-win.

[Taktix?]

Not if the EU declared indoor smoking areas as officially outdoors.

Here in crazy-ass'ed Florida, the bar owners have taken to putting up tents around former outside areas to create indoor-outdoor smoking areas.

Of course, they put these up when the temperature drops below 75 degrees. Pansies...

[Reinmoose]

I'm currently petitioning the Danish government to sell Greenland to me. New name: Rainbow Puppy Island.

Sorry, Reinmoose, it's bigger than Oahu.

1. The Danish government controls Greenland?
2. I guess it's ok that it's bigger than Oahu, but isn't Greenland really large enough to not really be an "island?" Wouldn't it be more like "Rainbow Puppy Continent?"

[gaijin]

Why dont governments grow some stones and ban cigarettes directly. This isn;t about global warming, anymore than second hand smoke was about cancer...it's about using any means necessary--except the most direct--to have your opinion win.

[just another lurker]

The real reason of course that these folks want to ban outdoor heaters is because the icky smokers are using them. Global warming is just the excuse. More of the 'lets use every excuse possible to force these people out of the practice we don't approve of, without ACTUALLY banning it' approach. It reflects their bigotry against smokers: make 'em suffer, make 'em suffer, right? Outdoor heaters are used very little in comparison to, say, propane barbecues. When are they banning those?

An ironic example: at one of the nearby area tribal casinos they use heaters outside the main doors for the comfort of the valets and waiting passengers. But you can smoke inside the casino.

[Fluffy]

Greenland isn't really that large. Mercator projecton maps exaggerate its size.

[Nick]

Yes, the Danish government controls Greenland.

And, Fluffy's right. It is big, though. Bigger than Oahu by many square feet. Colder, too, but with the warming it should be nice by then.

[Dello]

I still think an article about taking outdoor heaters away from smokers should be titled "Freezing their butts".

[jackanapestarian]

They'll be begging for the heaters, global warming and all in five years when we're in another Minimum and the Thames is frozen over.

Oh no, no, you don't understand! Global Warming (tm) causes both warming and unpredictable cooling! So if you're currently experiencing a bitter cold winter, you can blame it on the whims and vagaries of Global Warming. It's also responsible for male pattern baldness and halitosis, but that's another Nobel Prize for another time.

[Nick]

Actually, it's a self-governing province of Denmark, but let's be honest. If it become more than a hunk of ice, who do you think would be deciding?

Greenland: 836,109 sq mi, 57,100 people

Oahu: 596.7 sq mi, 876,151 people

Greenland, aka Rainbow Puppy Island, should definitely be the Free State Project. We could easily take over and make it the libertarian paradise we envision....when it warms up a smidge.

[Rex Rhino]

1. The Danish government controls Greenland?

And not only that, they are now claiming to own parts of Canada... since global warming is going to make it easy to extract all that oil and minerals.

[JW]

Oh no, no, you don't understand! Global Warming (tm) causes both warming and unpredictable cooling!

Oh, it causes many more things than that.

[jackanapestarian]

Ai carramba!

[Rhywun]

I fail to see how my attitude caused August temperatures of around 10C (50F) and heavy rain.

Please come stay in NYC next August and make it "cold"--I'll take that weather any day over what we usually get.

[daniel k]

Where can I go to buy some of this Rainbow Puppy Island? Can I get a piece with BOTH extra puppies and rainbows? O, and what kind of puppies are they?

[Shane]

I had thought that, due to Greenland's glaciers depressing the land mass, any significant climate change in a warming direction wouldn't result in a warmer land mass, but a submerged land mass. Am i mistaken?

[Reinmoose]

O, and what kind of puppies are they?

It depends. How much money you got? 🙂

I have monopolized the beagle puppies, so don't even think you're getting one without some major cash.

[jackanapestarian]

Shane,

Yes and no.

[starving hoardes from the thir]

Are the puppies good to eat?

[Shane]

So you're probably better off selling prime beach front property on the island chain that used to be appalachia than on the submerged continent of Greenland.

[Franklin Harris]

I can't smoke inside because the government is worried about lung cancer and emphysema. So, I have to smoke outside, in the cold. The government is not, I take it, worried about pneumonia.

[Nick]

Maybe when all is said and done with the submergence, the very large Greenland will end up about the size of Oahu. There you go, Reinmoose. Ranbow Puppy Island, Oahu-sized for your convenience.

Actually, if the ice sheet melted Greenland would most likely become an archipelago, but if we buy it now, we'll own all those. Yay us!

[Nick]

We could sell a few of the islands to buy NFL Sunday Ticket. With the coastal areas of the US submerged it'll be a smaller league. Jackson Hole Patriots, Cheyenne Dolphins, and Salt Lake City Jets should all be vying for AFC East supremacy. Despite surviving the apocolypse, the Buffalo Bills will probably be contracted or moved to Boise. I can't win.

[R C Dean]

O, and what kind of puppies are they?

Tender and juicy. The free-range puppies tend to be a little chewier, with a tad bit of a gamy flavor.

[MikeP]

Apparently the rock under Greenland will rebound once the weight of the ice is removed, and the island will look mostly like you'd think it should. Antarctica will be smaller, however.

Info found at this compilation page.

My biggest concern all along about the rising sea levels caused by global warming was land availability for all the people, animals, and farming.

According to that page, melting all the ice on the planet will change the ice-free land area from 132 million square kilometers to 128 million square kilometers.

[jackanapestarian]

Antarctica will be smaller, however.

But taller, as snowfall in the interior is increasing, not decreasing.

[Nick]

"Apparently the rock under Greenland will rebound once the weight of the ice is removed"

Same paragraph on that site says it would take thousands of years for Greenland to bounce back up, not our lifetime.

"According to that page, melting all the ice on the planet will change the ice-free land area from 132 million square kilometers to 128 million square kilometers."

Farming and human life are often in low-lying areas that will be under water. 1/3 of the Earth's population is in those areas that would be under water. I'm talking about land availability for life as we know it, not total land. Clearly there would be plenty of land available, but moving 2 billion people is hard especially when many of them do not have the means to move, and many large cities will be destroyed.

Johnston says "nothing about sea level rises has been observed." Ask the people of Tuvalu how it's going. Even if global warming isn't man-made, doesn't mean sea levels aren't rising and it doesn't mean they won't continue to rise. It also doesn't mean we can do anything about it. We probably can't.

[MikeP]

Same paragraph on that site says it would take thousands of years for Greenland to bounce back up, not our lifetime.

And since the page says that the ice won't disappear in thousands of years, I think it is unwarranted to use our lifetime as a meaningful scale for either effect.

Johnston says "nothing about sea level rises has been observed."

I'm not here to defend Johnston, but I looked for this quotation. I didn't find it. Perhaps you did. Or perhaps you paraphrased while ignoring the rather significant word "significant".

[green mamba]

A nation of smokers? What percentage of Brits smoke? Face it, smokers and smoker-enablers, you're a shrinking minority.

I'm glad I quit many years ago (well, I never officially "quit", I just don't smoke anymore). And I know some hopelessly addicted nicotine-poisoners who would be grateful for a little coercion from the law in order to stop their destructive habit.

[jackanapestarian]

Free minds, free markets, stupid green mambas.

[green mamba]

Good one, jackoff.

[smokeyJoe]

Heater are causing global warming... What about the cigarettes themselves? Everyone knows that increase carbon monoxide is the cause of global warming and since cigarette smoke has increased levels of carbon monoxide, they must cause global warming. If we just ban cigarettes, the world will be saved!

[Chris Potter]

If GW disrupts the Gulf Stream, the UK will get much colder even if the global avg temp goes up. It's at the same latitude as Montreal, after all.

[Chris Potter]

I don't know why it never occurred to me that Greenland and Antarctica will now have more usable land available.

not covered by ice /= usable

Greenland and Antarctica won't turn into the Midwest overnight. Even after the ice melts, the soil will be extremely poor, and there's no reason to believe the rainfall will be enough to sustain agriculture of any sort.

[J sub D]

green mamba'

I hope you or your children aren't overweight. The nanny-staters have fat in their sights. And I know some hopelessly obese "who would be grateful for a little coercion from the law in order to stop their destructive habit".

[ed]

Growth Industries for the Coming Apocalypse:

Swimming Lessons
High Plains Real Estate
Flatboat Basics
Fishing From Your Bedroom
Fear

[Russell]

OK- It's my fault for surfacing the Big Heat but who dropped a dime to Brussels?

http://adamant.typepad.com/seitz/2008/01/nicots-revenge.html