There's a Democratic Debate Happening Right Now

It's on NPR, and it started at 2, and thus far the Democratic candidates are saying nothing surprising, although the downy softness of the radio format makes the attacks seem a little blunter. The debate about the Kyl-Lieberman Iran resolution, so boiling hot in previous debates, is pretty substantive, apart from the predictable invective of John Edwards.

Clinton: I supported the resolution as part of diplomacy with Iran. We need carrots and sticks: That was a stick. Iran changed its behavior because of the resolution..

Biden: Malarky. Ain't a damn thing changed.

Obama: We installed a government with ties to Iran: The idea that Iran wouldn't have influence is ludicrous.

Gravel (he's back!): Why are we mad at Iran for helping out Hezbollah and Hamas? They're allowed to do that if they want to.

More Clinton: "I was the first of anyone at this table to speak against Bush taking us to war with Iran."

Comments

[R. Totale]

did Biden really say malarkey, or are you paraphrasing?

[Taktix?]

I can barely stay awake for the debates on TV, and that's probably because of all the flashing lights and colors.

A debate on NPR? Just thinking about it makes me yawn out loud.

Wait a minute... YOL?

[joe]

I predict that the moderator at NPR won't interrupt the candidates as they debate their health plans in order to steer the discussion back to what Obama thinks about what Edwards said about what Hillary said to the press about something Obama said about what she said.

Naw, it's not like NPR is The Most Trusted Name in News.

[Geotpf]

I'm sure he's paraphrasing, although it would be interesting to see what Biden actually said. He's clearly the best wordsmith of this election cycle, which is amazing, since maybe six months ago he was known for tripping over his own tongue. He's not going to win, but he's found his groove and easily is the canidate (from either party) most at ease with himself up on a debate stage. I'm not sure how he did it. I've heard it suggested that since MBNA got bought out by BoA, he no longer has to suck up to them as much (they are one of the major employers in the small state of Deleware which he represents), so he's been able to kick back and relax.

[Jamie Kelly]

NPR is the most trusted name.
... for me to poop on.

[javier]

richardson - not direct quote .. "if you manipulate your currency to the tune of 40% it is adversarial." How is it adversarial? I say thank you. I think the Dems need to read "What is money" by bastiat.

[avraam jack]

CLINTON WILL SINK THE DEMOCRATS
.
It is possible that Senator Clinton is the best candidate. However, even though many may like the policies that Senator Clinton proposes, they should also consider her record, just as Senator Clinton insists.
.
The last Clinton Administration, when faced with the fact that protection rackets where assaulting, torturing and murdering people with poison and radiation, chose to avoid its responsibilities to incarcerate the criminals and to protect the citizenry.
.
Instead, they made a deal with the criminal gang stalker protection rackets to leave them alone and to consequently abandon the citizenry.
.
Do we want a President who sells out the citizenry for votes?
.
Do we want a President who sends a "crime does pay" message to society?
.
Would you vote for a President who signed nonaggression deals with the KKKlan or the Nazi party? Gangs that torture with poison and radiation are much like the KKKlan and Nazi Party.
.
We do not need a sellout President. We need a principled leader President.
.
If you are one of the few who do not know what the above refers to, do a web search for "gang stalking" to see the tip of the dirtberg. Please do it before you decide to reply to my post. Here let me make it easy for you: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22gang+stalking%22.
.

[javier]

this mother asking the question needs to read howley's piece today.

[joe]

The crazies are all over the Clintons, and have been since the early 90s.

I don't mean right-wingers or anything: I mean actual crazy people. People who move to Washington so they can hand out their marginless, mimographed, double-sided, handwritten political tracts at the Metro stations. People who hear aliens through their fillings.

I was in DC in the early 90s. The crazies hated Bush the Elder something fierce, but when Clinton came along, they dropped him like a hot potato.

[VM]

like avraam?

[Jamie Kelly]

"The Crazies" also hated Reagan so much they shot him, tried to convince people that he was the ruin of the nation, sold a bunch of lies that Barry Goldwater was going to launch nuclear weapons the day he took office ....
Blah, blah, blah.
I find it actually fun to hate the fuck out of Hillary, because she's a loud-mouthed socialist twat. I mean it. She's no Democrat. She's an outright socialist. So if "the crazies" can do anything to knee-cap that bitch, I'm all for it.

[J sub D]

Avraam Jack -
I say again.

[NoStar]

C'mon, Jamie K,
Tell us what you really think of Senator Rodham-Clinton. ;~)

[Big Nanny]

I didn't hear it but I doubt he was paraphrasing.

[SugarFree]

gang stalking = rationalized paranoid schizophrenia

Paranoia is the egomaniacal delusion that other people think you're important.

[javier]

Jamie,

"She's no Democrat. She's an outright socialist"

Are you listening to the debate right now? Central planning is the common theme. Current us policy is all about central planning through arbitrary laws and regulation to achieve organization and desired outcomes. It just so happens that at this point the population doesn't like direct government ownership.

[javier]

democrats are quasi-socialist at best.

[Jamie Kelly]

Tell us what you really think of Senator Rodham-Clinton.

Let's just say I'd pull a Sam Kinison on her.
"My ideal date was to fuck a woman in the ass, cum on her back, steal $40 out of her purse, climb out the window and never call her again. Let her wake up sticky, broke and confused."

[joe]

On economic policy, Hillary Clinton is the furthest to the right of any Democrat in the race.

Someone could get several doctoral dissertations out of the thought process of people who single her out as a socialist.

[Jamie Kelly]

Central planning is the common theme.

Any time I hear any politician talk about "four-year plans," I shit a little in my pants.

[Jamie Kelly]

Yeah, joe
-- like that health-care plan of hers
-- railing against "big pharamaceuticals"
-- threatening to steal the profits of oil companies
-- threatening to roll back all of Bush's tax cuts
-- "it takes a village to raise a child"

If that's "right wing" among the Democrats, we need to nuke the DNC now, and hope you're there giving blow jobs.

[joe]

I love that fact that you exist, Jaimie.

If you didn't, I'd have to invent you.

[Jamie Kelly]

And a war-monger to boot.
God, Hillary, please slip on the ice and hit your head really hard and be in a coma.

[Shannon Love]

More Clinton: "I was the first of anyone at this table to speak against Bush taking us to war with Iran."

If she becomes President that will come back to haunt her. I fear that the leadership in Iran hears something different in that than we do.

[joe]

Jaimie,

Are you the guy holding the Get a Brain, Morans! sign in the picture?

[Pinette]

Although I am very libertarian, i am not afraid of another clinton administration. Those who think of her as the boogeyman probably listen to a lot of AM talk radio...
edit: what i mean is that i'm not more afraid of her than i am of the Republican frontrunners.
Things weren't so bad under Bill Clinton. Then we elected Bush partly because we thought he was a conservative and look what happened.
The idea that democrat=more government, republican=less government is just not believable anymore.

[Jamie Kelly]

I guess that's symbiotic in a weird way, joe: I hate the fact that you exist.

[joe]

Yeah, well, that's the Red-Blue thing in a nutshell.

[Jamie Kelly]

Are you the guy holding the Get a Brain, Morans! sign in the picture?

Nope. Unlike you, I can spell. But that's because I work in the private sector, where you're more or less required to be able to spell.

[Jamie Kelly]

Yeah, joe, confuse me for a red-stater.
That pretty much sums it up for me right there.

[SugarFree]

Be careful, joe's joke just went right over Jaime's head. You wouldn't want to get any on you.

[joe]

It's easy for things to go over your head when you live your life in a defensive crouch.

[Jamie Kelly]

No it didn't, sugarfree. I'm just making the point that joe can't spell worth a shit, just like the "moran" guy.

[Taktix?]

The idea that democrat=more government, republican=less government is just not believable anymore.

With the exception of HRC, I kind of agree. But Hillary is a big-gov girl through and through.

[VM]

*reaches for handiwipe*

Indeed, SugarFree. Indeed.

[Jamie Kelly]

I love that fact that you exist, Jaimie.

If you didn't, I'd have to invent you.

joe, you were a government planner. The only thing of use that you could invent is a unique way to take your own life.

[robc]

joe,

Are we bringing fark cliches to H&R now? Im not sure that is a good idea. But, if we do, Im putting slashies on all my posts.

/And lolcat pics

[J sub D]

The idea that democrat=more government, republican=less government is just not believable anymore.

I wonder why that is?

[SugarFree]

robc,

This place needs cat-macros! VM and I would plotz! And I could use more exclamation points!!!

[de stijl]

For the uninitiated.

For extra-special wackiness, it's hosted on lonewacko.com. Metalolz!

[VM]

"I love that fact that you exist, Jaimie.

If you didn't, I'd have to invent you."

hier.

und da.

[joe]

You're right, robc. No more worn-out internet cliches.

For my part, I hereby pledge to stop posting under the name "Jaimie Kelly," as the frothing wingnut warblogger fantasising about the deaths of liberals was a cliche four years ago.

[jmklein]

Iran changed its behavior in 2003, before Clinton voted in 2007?

Does she really think we're that retarded?

[Jamie Kelly]

fantasising (SIC) about the deaths of liberals

and mmmm, that's good fantasizin'!

[Koncerned Moose]

Time for an intervention....

[joe]

I can always proof my comments if I fee like it, Jamie.

Whereas you will always have to be Jamie Kelly.

[Bronwyn]

No (sic) required when using British spellings.

[Jamie Kelly]

I'm going to fucking kill that therapy cat and spread its guts all over my penis and masturbate to the thought of me killing that fucking therapy cat.

[Bronwyn]

Whoa. Jamie sounds like he's been a little... repressed.

*slowly backs away*

Steady there, boy. Steady.

[Jamie Kelly]

No (sic) required when using British spellings.

joe ain't no Brit. I'd peg him for Sea of Tranquilitian.

[J sub D]

[Shaking Head] Children, children. This is a blog, not a spelling bee, not a grammar competition, a friggin' blog. Hell, I'm suck a forgiving reader, I gloss over misspelled words and go right to the content. Try it sometimes. For me?

[Jamie Kelly]

grrrrrrrr.........RUFF!
grrrrrrrr.....

[robc]

This one could get some use around here.

For you joe 🙂

[Jamie Kelly]

I'm going to fucking kill that middle-finger cat and spread its guts all over my penis and masturbate to the thought of me killing that fucking middle-finger cat.

[rho]

A debate on NPR? Just thinking about it makes me yawn out loud.

It may be boring. I don't think so, but I can see how it might be to some.

However, it is so ridiculously better than every televised debate it is embarrassing. It's too bad that Bill Richardson wasn't able to make it, I think he would have made some serious in-roads.

Biden and Dodd sound a lot better here than elsewhere.

If you want to play a drinking game, do a Jager shot every time Hillary says "obviously".

[Bronwyn]

Jamie, yes, I know. I was just sayin' to be sayin'. It's still not wrong. Technically. And you were being... technical.

Which, as J sub D pointed out so cogently, is not the point.

Golly, it does look awfully Farkish in here today.

/slashie for good measure

[Taktix?]

If you want to play a drinking game, do a Jager shot every time Hillary says "obviously".

Whewsh! Thas was a good [hic] debate . I fink I show watch, er... lishen to them more offin... [hic]

[VM]

go on.

oh my! mercy!

[joe]

I think Jamie should start writing an advice column.

Dear Jamie,

I'm a cat owner, and I recently brought an adorable little kitten into my home. Now my older cat keeps urniating around the house. Help! I've had him since I was in school, and I can't bear to get rid of him.

Edith in Long Island

Dear Edith,

I fucking hate you with the incadenscent rage of a thousand dying suns. I hope you fucking choke. Fucking liberals love fucking cats, just like the fucking Egyptians, who are fucking Muslims.

Not that a little pussy like you would ever notice. I could snap your neck like a twig, you fucking liberal little shit!

[javier]

Gravel just endorsed the fuckin fairtax!!!

[Jamie Kelly]

I like interested cat.
And cat watching me masturbate.
Garcon, bring a bowl of milk, posthaste.

[Jamie Kelly]

joe,
I thought Edith Bunker lived in the Bronx.

[javier]

I think he is trying to ride RP coattails.

gravel shows up to a RP rally here

[VM]

Kitteh is koncerned.

On the Other Hand....

and sorry about the problem with the milk.

[Shannon Love]

I can't figure out if this thread as veered wildly off topic or is some kind of post modernist reinforcement of the parent post observations.

[Taktix?]

LoLcats was like soooooo last week...

[VikingKitteh]

and hier is how we manage the future!!!!!

[TLB]

Based on what I read here (blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/12/live-blogging-t.html#more) as of the date of this comment, it sounds like NPR is trying to be as bad as CNN when it comes to DiscussingImmigration.

Compare those two questions with the ones I left for them in the second comment here:

npr.org/blogs/news/2007/11/ask_the_candidates_immigration.html

For instance, compare these two to what NPR asked:

youtube.com/watch?v=Q_l4Lawj14A
youtube.com/watch?v=EiullH5jU1A

[Rattlesnake Jake]

"On economic policy, Hillary Clinton is the furthest to the right of any Democrat in the race."

The ADA rated her as liberal as any other Senator.

"Someone could get several doctoral dissertations out of the thought process of people who single her out as a socialist.'

She always talks about government solutions, never about curtailing government to allow the private sector to handle it.

[TOOKURJOBZMOOSE]

See? Solitary wackjob's opinion is correct!!!

[rho]

Gravel's advocated the Fairtax before. As kooky former Senators go, Gravel isn't that kooky, though he's very former.

[Dave T]

John Jackson: "It's time someone had the courage to stand up and say: I'm against those things that everybody hates."
Jack Johnson: "Now, I respect my opponent. I think he's a good man. But quite frankly, I agree with everything he just said."

[J sub D]

See? Solitary wackjob's opinion is correct!!!

Do you mean "See? Solitarywackjob'sopinioniscorrect!!!"?

[Isaac Bartram]

No, no, no, J sub D, you don't have enough random UPPERCASE LETTERS thrown in there.

[Isaac Bartram]

I mean, UpperCaseLetters.

[mike]

Garcon, bring a bowl of milk, posthaste.

Ooh! Post haste is two words and should be italicized because it's foreign! Facial JK! Total facial! Once again, it's joe's law of teh internets.

[Isaac Bartram]

Actually, posthaste (note: one word) is archaic English. Somewhat strange, perhaps, but hardly foreign.

[J sub D]

No, no, no, J sub D, you don't have enough random UPPERCASE LETTERS thrown in there.

Does this mean I'll be denied admission to WIP (Wacko Institute of Paranoia)?

[Michael]

Obama would dig this one: http://www.myconfinedspace.com/2006/10/27/lets-do-coke/

[crw]

Anyone notice how Robert Siegel kept pwning the hell out of Edwards? Siegel was really doing a great job getting Edwards to hoist himself on his own petard today. I especially liked the one during the China exchange (paraphrased):

Edwards - (Usual pandering on bringing middle class blue collar jobs back to America. Usual crap mill story)

Siegel - Senator Edwards, you're implying America can become a major power in textiles again - an industry associated with low wage emerging economies. No matter what we do, aren't textiles obviously going to be pouring out of mills in low wage countries...so this isn't what our economy should be specializing in at this time?

[Kolohe]

How am I supposed to be able to tell if anyone is wearing a pants suit if it's on the radio?

[joe]

Rattlesnake Jake,

Your comments could be applied as well or moreso to all of the candidates, except maybe Richardson, in the Democratic race.

Kucinich-Gravel-Edwards-Dodd-Biden-Obama-Richardson-Clinton is how I'd rank them left-to-right. Maybe Richardson and Clinton's policies average out to a tie.

And yet Clinton gets singled out, consistently, as if she represents an extreme socialist ideology.

It's strange, it's personal, it's a consequence of the Mighty Wurlitzer cranking up against her for the past decade and a half +, and it demonstrates the degree to which personal animus has replaced ideas of governance in the Republican mind.

[Neu Mejican]

joe,

I think that is Clinton->Richardson, but it's a pretty thin knife-edge that fits between their economics.

The fun trick would be to try and make that list with all of the Republican candidates included.

Which republicans would fall to the left of which Democrats on which issues?

[The Libertarian Guy]

Gosh, I missed it. Did anything interesting happen?

BTW joe, why should Hillary have anything nice or praiseworthy said about her? I don't need, nor ever HAVE needed, any talking-head to tell me what she's about... I just observe her actions and words. Tells me all I need to know.

BTW 2 did Edwards reiterate this assertion?

When asked what would happen if an individual decided they didn't want healthcare Edwards said, "You don't get that choice."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/11/edwards-weighs.html

Absolutely disgusting POV, in my opinion.

[VM]

"I just observe her actions and words. Tells me all I need to know."

I'd think that that's how most people arrive at opinions about candidates. The rest is ego defense of the original position.

"Absolutely disgusting POV, in my opinion."
You've highlighted exactly one of Edwards's disgusting POVs! Please, for the love of all that's decent, please, Sir, do not proceed with the list!!!! (ARGH! BACK OF HEAD EXPLODES)

[joe]

TLG,

BTW joe, why should Hillary have anything nice or praiseworthy said about her?

Who said she should?

[The Libertarian Guy]

Well, joe, it seems by my observations that Hillary is some kind of Untouchable, and anyone who deigns to criticize her is either a knuckle-dragging woman-hater or a capitalist pig.

VM, unfortunately a lot of people agree with Edwards. Socialistized medicine is inevitable with that kind of public mindset.

I tell people this: I neither want, nor will accept, health care from the government. Why should you expect me to pay for yours?

BTW, I wasn't going to go on with the list, VM, that quote from Johnny Haircut was all that needed to be said. Gag.

[VM]

"BTW, I wasn't going to go on with the list"
phew...

falls down in thankful convulsions (that probably will lead to some furious BATIN)

[The Libertarian Guy]

Edwards' comment on health care reminds me of Hillary's recent comment:

"This is the most successful domestic program in the history of the United States," Clinton said to applause from seniors gathered in Washington to push their policy agenda. "When I'm president, privatization is off the table because it's not the answer to anything."

The last sentence being, of course, a Freudian slip which shows how she would govern if elected. A rare slip for the Hildabeast.