Rudy Giuliani

Ron Paul's Big Score

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Ron Paul's campaign just held a press conference on its third quarter fundraising. The message of the day: Only three Republican campaigns are fiscally secure and fecund, and Paul's is one of them. (The others are Rudy Giuliani's and Fred Thompson's.)

More from Paul fundraising director Jonathan Bydlak…

– They're still counting, but somewhere between 34,000 and 35,000 people donated to Paul last quarter.

– Another rough estimate: Less than 3 percent of Paul donors have maxed out donating to the campaign.

– Only Paul and Sam Brownback carried no debt into the fourth quarter. Brownback only has $94,654 in the bank; Paul has $5.4 million.

Bydlak said the campaign is still aiming to raise $12 million from the start of October to the end of the year, even though only $1 million has been raised this month so far. "If we just kept up this pace we'd raise about $8 million, which is more than last quarter," he told me. "But this doesn't follow that kind of pattern. Look for $3 million this month, $4 million next month, $5 million in December."

This, naturally, prompted some questions (from CBN and MSNBC reporters) about what the campaign will do with its money. "Our focus is on New Hampshire, South Carolina, Iowa, and Nevada," said campaign chairman Kent Snyder. "In that order." On whether the first-time Paul volunteers (55,000 of them coming in from the web) will alienate primary voters the way Howard Dean's young turks did in 2004: "We're mindful of that, and we've got very good people in Iowa, including a chair who just won an award from the Iowa Christian Alliance." (Tom Tancredo's field team, at least in Iowa, has proven more adept than Paul's. See Tancredo's fourth place straw poll showing.) On why Paul's support isn't showing up in polls, Snyder pointed to Paul's legion of straw poll wins.

In other candidate news, here's Phil Klein at a Rudy Giuliani press conference meant to firm up (if you can firm up jelly) the mayor's support on the religious right.

NEXT: The Radical Von Mises

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  1. Haven’t we already proven that those straw polls were hacked, and the only straw poll that means anything is the Ames straw poll (all those other ones were delegitimized by Paul supporters voting too much)?

    (just in case…[/sarcasm])

  2. He didn’t really use the word ‘fecund’ did he?

    Tom Tancredo’s field team, at least in Iowa, has proven more adept than Paul’s. See Tancredo’s fourth place straw poll showing.
    The point was embossed on an anvil and dropped on your head and you still missed it. The straw poll was held in the middle of Q2. The campaign was still on a shoestring then. Paul is flush now. And wiser for the straw poll. Tom Tanwhathisname is one of the going going gone crowd.

    RON PAUL 2008
    Hope for America
    Join the Loverution.

  3. Hey, it’s Jonathan Bydlak, not Blydak. Just to let you know. Jon’s my boy! He was in my meetup group before his big promotion.

  4. Oh, and as far as a substantive comment – this story is going to explode. Soon. Dr. Paul was on Fox and Friends this morning and treated with the respect a real candidate deserves – after the last Republican debate, when he went out to a crowd of 2000 cheering college students, and the rest of the candidates scampered back to their warrens (no offense, Warren), I think something clicked in the media’s mind. If he performs well in this Sunday’s debate, the media may start to treat him seriously.

    Also, with CBN’s increased interest in Paul, there’s a potential that he can make inroads with the dissatisfied evangelicals. There’s a CBN reporter who has been writing positive stories almost daily, and plans to do a big segment on Paul on The 700 Club.

    Freedom makes strange bedfellows!

  5. This report assumes the results in Ames were valid. Someone should apply some reason to the question of the prima facie fraudulent Diebold machines.

  6. Ron Paul’s Big Score

    Oh boy – now one of us has to write a post called Ron Paul in Africa.

  7. “If we just kept up this pace we’d raise about $8 million, which is more than last quarter,” he told me. “But this doesn’t follow that kind of pattern. Look for $3 million this month, $4 million next month, $5 million in December.”

    I’m unhappy with this statement. I’m all for Ron Paul blowing his own horn to the press. But I don’t think this will hold water. First of all, he’s on track to raise $6 million for the quarter not eight. Secondly, I’m wondering if it’s reasonable to expect increasing support as we go into the holidays.

  8. Warren,
    They’re looking at it the same way they looked at last quarter – through a concerted effort/push at the end of the month, they raised 1 mil + in a week – people tend to put off political donations until there’s a clear fundraising push/deadline. I don’t think this is unreasonable, especially with the rate at which they’ll get new supporters (i.e. the rate at which they think the message will get out and expand the financial base of the campaign).

  9. People just want an honest president and that’s what makes Ron Paul attractive. I hope he wins the election!

  10. Only 3% of his donors have maxed? There’s a LOT of room there for that $12M to come out as the quarter progresses.

    I gave another three-digit sum yesterday and will with every payday and some in between) until I max out. I’d like to see him hit that $2M mark a lot faster than he hit the $1M mark this quarter. Growth will enable more growth.

  11. The Iowa straw poll is flawed by design, as the ‘votes’ are directly bought by the candidates.

    Romney bought his win at a cost of 33$ per ticket.

    Dr. Paul didn’t buy a single ticket for that event, yet still showed respectably.

  12. Dr. Paul didn’t buy a single ticket for that event, yet still showed respectably.

    No, his supporters were the ones that bought the tickets. πŸ˜‰

    Also, Ron Paul will be on Jay Leno on the night of October 30th. Set your Tivos!

  13. “If he performs well in this Sunday’s debate”

    What time is the debate and on what network?

  14. Fox news, 8 PM, Lurch Hume is moderating

  15. that was mean. Brit Hume. I bet he’s a nice dude and all. Just kind of Lurch-y.

  16. It’s funny that they are saying $3M/$4M/$5M, that had been my reaction when they shot for $4M a month. His fundraising has been accelerating, so getting more and more over the next few months is far more likely than getting an even amount each month.

  17. Romney bought his win at a cost of 33$ per ticket.

    Not quite right. The Paul campaign had tickets left over at the end of the day (whoever paid for them). Romney bought his win at the cost of hunting down people willing to cast votes for him and bussing them to Ames. Paul ran only a few radio spots days before the straw poll, and had no busses.

  18. A big push is being made in the grassroots movement to get as many people as possible to donate at least $100 on November 5th, so we’ll see how that fares.

    Warren,
    They’ve stated previously that 70% of the money is coming from online donations. If that’s held true and $1 million was raised online in that time, $428,600 or so was raised offline in that time. That puts the steady course projection at 8.2 million.

  19. Re: Ames

    I think it’s important to note that he didn’t start campaigning in Iowa until about a week before the straw poll. Tancredo, Brownback, Huckabee spent a lot of time there beforehand. Romney in some reports spent as much as $3 million to get his win.

    All Paul had was a group of dedicated volunteers. There was no campaign previously, no mailings, no campaign calls. He had only just set up an office the week before Ames.

  20. Vermont Gun Owner, the straw poll victories were unfair because the number of Ron Paul supporters that showed up to vote for him was greater than any of the other candidates.

    It is possible that the same unfair thing will happen at the primary election. Only 6.6% of Republicans voted in the last primary. That means that to be fair, at most 7 out of every 100 Ron Paul supporters should be voting in the primary. Otherwise we would just be spamming it.

    We have to keep it fair. Ron Paul supporters should think about staying home on primary day in the interests of being fair to the other candidates.

  21. Kyle,
    Oh yes, I see now. What is the significance of Nov. 5th?

    Ryan,
    LOL. You remind me of people who go on about insider-trading. We need a level playing field = nobody should ever make any money. Isn’t this the theory we fought in Vietnam with?

  22. That means that to be fair, at most 7 out of every 100 Ron Paul supporters should be voting in the primary. Otherwise we would just be spamming it.

    You know, I never get tired of the spamming jokes πŸ™‚

  23. Dr. Paul has to win, he is the last hope I see of taking our country back by ballot. He is also the ONLY republican out there that can beat Hillary and she’s almost a sure thing. Scary! All my family just registered Republican to vote for him in the primary. I have set an automatic donation to him every month I recomend we all do.
    Dee

  24. Gosh this is fun. But the hangover is going to be awful when reality hits that we Paul supporters a still just a tiny minority.

    For example, when was the last time you said something about Reason Magazine (in first life, not online) and someone knew what in the heck you were talking about?

    We’re getting tunnel vision on the internet. Just have some fun activity in mind that will make you happy when we finally have to swallow that bitter pill of reality.

    Hope I’ll be surprised in some way.

    Until then, GO RON PAW!!

    IDL

  25. Nov. 5 is Guy Fawkes Day.

    “Remember, remember the 5th of November”

    etc. etc.

  26. The money is big, but it’s probably irrelevant unless it translates into higher visibility than Paul’s getting now. It’s good to see at least some media treating him seriously, but there’s a long way to go in that department.

    The evangelical thingy could be critical. It seems like they don’t like any of the “leading” candidates. And I can’t blame them; what a sad bunch.

  27. Warren,

    November the 5th was the date of the plot to blow up parliament in London. One of the men involved was a gentleman known as Guy Fawkes. There is a poem, part of which, that goes:

    Remember, remember the 5th of November,
    The gunpowder treason and plot,
    I see no reason why the gunpowder treason,
    Should ever be forgot.

    All this was sort of explained in the movie, V for Vendetta.

  28. Warren,
    Heh, its a V for Vendetta thing. “Let’s give them a 5th of November they’ll never forget.” Its been a pretty popular movie among libertarians. I can’t say I endorse using a piece of pop culture to promote the campaign, but if it gets people donating, I won’t complain too much.

    Loosely attached is that the General election is in 1 year on November 4th.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=sSCN0oXDr70
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=bT2vH0SPYUM

  29. Everyone donate $100 on November the 5th!

    youtube.com/watch?v=bT2vH0SPYUM

    Even though were in the minority now, progress is being made, and it is up to us to continue it.

    Paul in 08!

  30. yeah I have to say I don’t like the idea of associating RP supporters with V for Vendetta. Especially the whole mask thing, just makes people look crazy. Also, domestic terrorism isn’t something to cozy up to.

    But whatever! Donate on November 5 cuz it’s Mad Money Monday!

  31. I’m not sure about the wisdom of making the “V for Vendetta” connection. I would prefer that everyone donate $100 on Halloween as a “trick” for the other campaigns. And to get us up to that $4,000,000 goal for October. Today would be even better. Why Wait?

  32. I agree with y’all. Who’s organizing this Nov. 5th thing? I think maybe we should be cautious about going along with it because there’s a violent implication in making the Guy Fawkes connection. Ron Paul is quite the opposite. Any press on this matter could be quite dammaging.

  33. The “only $1 million” the campaign has raised online so far in the fourth quarter is more than Huckabee, Brownback, Tancredo, Hunter, Keyes, or Cox raised in the entire third quarter.

    It’s also worth noting that Ron Paul’s $5 million haul in the third quarter was more than Huckabee, Brownback, Tancredo, Hunter, Keyes, and Cox raised — combined. Clearly he’s in the top tier in fundraising, and pretty much in a tier by himself in volunteer activism.

  34. This web site pretty much paints the MeetUp group picture. Ron Paul has no competition in this stat.

    http://www.techpresident.com/scrape_plot/meetup_supporter?#link_linechart_r_1

    If those MeetUp groups equate into activists who do not embarrass the campaign and actually do positive campaign activities, that support is worth millions of dollars. Money only goes so far. Romney has spent millions on TV ads and is stuck at 10% in the polls. Ron Paul has been making progress without any significant spending.

  35. Reinmoose,
    Nobody is organizing it. Like many things in the grassroots movement, it started as a Youtube video followed by some forum threads, and now everyone’s just doing it. It can’t really be stopped at this point, so the best idea is just to roll with it.

    The official campaign isn’t attached to it, so I don’t think it will result in too much blowback.

  36. Romney has spent millions on TV ads and is stuck at 10% in the polls.

    You can’t polish a turd. Or a turd sandwich.

  37. What I meant, but said poorly, was that the other candidates can’t buy the kind of support that Ron Paul appears to have.

    We hear moans about Paul supporters slamming polls, but we are not doing anything that the other candidates’ supporters cannot do. If Rudy Giuliani really has six times the support of Ron Paul, his supporters should be able to dwarf the efforts of Paul’s supporters. It seems the others candidates’ supporters are not that enthusiastic.

    Can they be convinced to change their minds and support Ron Paul or, perhaps more accurately, Ron Paulitics? πŸ˜€

  38. BakedPenguin — Oh! I was wondering which one was the turd sandwich! πŸ˜€

  39. This thing is about to blow up. All the nay sayers will be eating crow. All the old tropes about why RON PAUL can’t win will evaporate like isopropyl in a stiff breeze. The more he’s accepted the more acceptable he becomes.

  40. “Gosh this is fun. But the hangover is going to be awful when reality hits that we Paul supporters a still just a tiny minority.

    For example, when was the last time you said something about Reason Magazine (in first life, not online) and someone knew what in the heck you were talking about?”

    We are but you have to remember that the average person on the street doesn’t vote in primary elections.

    We are a minority and it doesn’t matter as long as our minority is larger than the various other minorities out there voting in the primaries.

    If they did primary voting by calling random people in the phone book I wouldn’t think we had a chance. But since primaries are decided by a small bloc of voters victory is possible. Especially since NH is early.

    If I’m a betting man the smart money is still on Gulianni but I’m not so I’m voting for Paul.

  41. Ron Paul’s support is a question of width vs. depth. Giuliani’s support is far wider than Ron Paul’s, drawing largely from his “Mr. 9/11” image and name recognition, but its not very deep, because he doesn’t seem to create a lot of excitement. Ron Paul’s support is not very wide, but its extremely deep, probably due in large part to the message. You get the impression that once Ron Paul gains a supporter, they’re not likely to stray to another campaign.

    First tier supporters seem much more nomadic, willing to support this personality or that one, but one wonders if they’ll even show up to the primaries to express their lackadaisical support for their candidate. I don’t think there’s any question that Ron Paul supporters are the most likely to show up, though the heavy youth involvement is a concern.

  42. I’m getting tired of seeing RP supporters who claim that he is America’s last, best hope. I like the guy, I’m supporting him, and yes, I’m even enthusiastic about how well he seems to be doing. But “last, best hope”?
    Does that mean if he loses we’ll see an upswing in violent anarchistic activity? ‘Cause I don’t think a majority of RP supporters are anarchists. If not, what will they do? Move to Costa Rica?

  43. Hey,

    If there are any Cleveland-area Ron Paul supporters, the Cleveland area meet-up groups will be putting up banners and holding signs in conspicuous places before the playoff game on Thursday afternoon. Email me if you’re interested in volunteering. Or better yet, just check out the Cleveland Ron Paul Meet-up group on meetup.com and join the meet-up group!

  44. It seems the others candidates’ supporters are not that enthusiastic.

    Scott – I think this is an important point. I’m hoping for bad weather for all the primaries. The idea being it would keep away the “meh” voters flipping coins to decide between the TS and the giant douche, but not most of the Pauliticians.

  45. If you want to see where people are putting their money on the candidates, the futures trading at Intrade.com is kind of interesting. They have had Ron Paul in fourth place for several weeks and he has been making slow, steady progress.

    I agree with the notion that primary voters are various small groups, more or less. It is evident that Ron Paul’s supporters are more energized and motivated than any other candidate, bar none, so there is much reason for optimism, as I see it.

    I like the width vs. depth analogy. As far as the youth involvement, that’s one of the things that helped get Jesse Ventura elected. He rose from relative obscurity rather quickly.

  46. BakedPenguin — I hadn’t even considered the weather. I’m more optimistic now than I was a moment ago. And I’m pretty optimistic! πŸ˜€

  47. I have a birthday in november and christams in december. The top of my gift wishlist will be a $donation to Ron Paul πŸ™‚

  48. Michael,

    I was watching the Ron Paul web site’s fundraising thermometer one night and I saw the name “Mike Straczynski” appear. I wondered if it was J. Michael Straczynski of “Babylon 5” fame. According to a story I saw later, it was, in fact, him.

    Babylon 5 was, according to the opening title sequence, humanity’s “last, best hope.” I don’t know if there’s a connection, but it’s kind of amusing.

  49. I tnink the RP support is not only more substantial qualitatively than that for any of the other republican candidates, but also quantitatively greater than the mainstream media is willing to admit. The MSM is a dinosaur, and the denial is based in attachment to the endangered species which is the monolithic old media. The support for Giuliani is a near empty shell. If only 6.6% of republicans vote in the primaries, and the prowar vote has to be divided across Giuliani, Romney, Thompson, McCain, etc. Paul can win by default.

  50. Clem,

    “I’m getting tired of seeing RP supporters who claim that he is America’s last, best hope. I like the guy, I’m supporting him, and yes, I’m even enthusiastic about how well he seems to be doing. But “last, best hope”?”

    Sure he is. He’s 72, so this is certainly his last shot at it. Paul has ten terms to his name. Who else vaguely libertarian stands any realistic chance of even sharing the stage at a GOP/Dem presidential candidate’s debate?! Who else *is* there?!

  51. Carl — The divided vote argument is a good one. There are so many reasons to be optimistic. And people seem to keep coming up with new ones!

    If Ron Paul were to get the nomination, he would be better positioned to defeat Clinton (or Obama) than any of the other GOP candidates could possibly be. He outflanks Clinton on the war. He is a medical doctor who can argue against her health care schemes from first-hand experience. She offers tax increases, whereas he offers eliminating the income tax. It seems to me that getting the nomination is the hard part.

  52. If anyone but Ron Paul wins, Costa Rica sounds good to me.
    Let’s consider the consequences of a Hellary or Julieannie presidency:
    Communist leaning hellary (Stalinist)
    Fascist leaning julieannie (Mussolini)

    Constitutionalist leaning Dr. Paul (Thomas Jefferson)

    The choice is clear.

  53. i have a ron paul rubber braclet and a ron paul bumper sticker on my car. i’ve already had several people ask me about him. hope everybody is doing the same. unfortuneatley name recognition is very important. get those stickers and signs out!!!

  54. Ghouliani spent $13 million in the third quarter, that is $1 million per week!

    At that rate, Ron Paul will have more money in the bank by Christmas than Ghouliani.

  55. Yeah, the way those other Republicans are blowing through their campaign contributions and, for the most part, spending more than they have coming in, tells us something about how they would most likely spend OUR money once they were in office.

    As Ron Paul has pointed out, those other campaigns are like government. They are bloated and wasteful. It’s just one more reason to be optimistic. Even though Ron Paul’s campaign has less money, they get more bang for their buck.

  56. Im going to Costa Rica if he loses. No kidding. We have lost all of our rights, our money is on the verge of losing its value, the government tries day and night to grow larger into my life.

    Ron Paul is the last hope that a politician will stand up for the American people. We had freedom, Remember?

  57. “secure and fecund”. Perhaps other compaigns won’t admit to this.

  58. Re: “fecund”

    Dr. Paul was a practicing ob/gyn, so the fecundity pun is apt.

  59. Even though I am not as anti-war as Dr. Paul, I fully support him. There is no other Republican that I can see, who believes in small government and the rights of the governed. Only Paul will work tirelessly to ensure our constitutional rights. Republicans have become big-spending liberals just like the Democrats.

    Go Paul!

    ed

  60. I have to admit that all of this “good” news is making me nervous. Cash on hand is great, but will we ever see a report on what they are doing with the money? It’s not going to do a lot of good to have the most cash on hand on Feburary 6th.

    Living in one of the “late” primary states, I haven’t seen or heard any ads. From what I’ve heard from people in IA and NH, the ads have been few and far between, and the ones they have run haven’t been very good quality. while RP’s campaign is great at raising money, how good is it at using that money to the greatest effect?

    I’ve heard the argument that you raise money to raise more money, but at some point, don’t you have to spend? And WHY would the campaign put South Carolina in greater importance than Iowa and Nevada? And why aren’t Wyoming and Michigan being mentioned?

  61. “Hacked” Straw Poll Results…

    GET REAL!!!!!!

    …yea sure….it’s those same 27 people across the nation (12 of ’em right here in Tennessee) that have hacked into every single Call-In and/or Straw-Poll..

    Anyone that argues that silly point…hacking…is only running scared for their sacred cow.
    They simply cannot believe that someone could actually be working (so hard) for someone *other* than their own candidate-of-choice.

    GO RON PAUL !! !! !!
    I BELIEVE ! !!

  62. Does that mean if he loses we’ll see an upswing in violent anarchistic activity?

    No. What we mean when we say RON PAUL is Americas only hope, is that over the past hundred years or so, we’ve already traveled a say a quarter of the way from freedom to tyranny (as far as the relationship between the people and the state is concerned). We’ve been picking up speed too. A Paul administration would at least put a halt to that, and in some important ways restore the freedoms spelled out in the constitution. Any other president will continue the down hill run with their foot on the gas all the way.

  63. Unfortunately it took segregationist Governor Wallace to reveal the truth that “there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between” Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats willingly went along with the War in Iraq, suspension of Habeas Corpus, detaining protesters, banning books like America Deceived (book) from Amazon, stealing private lands (Kelo decision), warrant-less wiretapping and refusing to investigate 9/11 properly. They are both guilty of treason.
    Support Dr. Ron Paul and save this great country.

  64. Reggie,

    The next Million Man March will be armed.

  65. smacky,

    If I didn’t have to leave the country on Friday (and thus do all the packing and whatnot), I’d consider helping out.

    It would double as a great excuse to soak up the atmosphere of another ALCS clinch (not to jinx us…), but alas…

  66. Every time I think Ron Paul might win, along comes someone like Reggie, and confirms my fear that the Truthers will deliberately marginalize him.

  67. Timon19,

    Pack tonight and come hang out tomorrow! All you need to do is stand there and smile and wave at motorists. No work involved.

  68. Ron Paul is lying out his teeth. He is an America-hating pussy and a fringe candidate who has no chance. His supporters are spamming polls and are exaggerating his support (which is actually only 2 or 3 Internet spammers).

  69. I miss the real Eric Donderrrrrrrrrooooooooo now, πŸ™

  70. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1…

  71. Must. Use. Refresh.

  72. Eric Dondero was fired by Ron Paul because Paul is a libertarian and Dondero is a neocon. The sad thing is Dondero is so deluded he actually thinks big government is a libertarian position.

  73. Every time I think Ron Paul might win, along comes someone like Reggie, and confirms my fear that the Truthers will deliberately marginalize him.

    Eugene McCarthy had a “Clean for Gene” program in the 60’s – the idea was to get all the hippies to take baths and wear better clothes before they went out to campaign for him.

    Maybe the Paul campaign could do that for the truthers – have a “Rational for Ron” or “Sane for Paul” program. The truthers have to turn in their tinfoil hats, and they aren’t allowed to talk about anything related to national security. Better yet, have a campaign room wrapped in tin, and get them to stuff envelopes in there.

  74. First of all, the people who try and use the ‘the Straw Polls were ‘fixed’ idea infuriate me. If that is the only thing you can say against Ron Paul, than that is great. Ron Paul has a huge following and I think you are afraid of that. Ignorance infuriates me.

    In one poll, Ron Paul was doing so well that they took it down because they thought something was wrong – turns out THEY were wrong and ended up getting THOUSANDS of emails from Ron Paul supporters.

    When he hit over $5 million…more than other candidates…that was not the result of spammers, that is a result of LOYAL followers. So how are you going to try and spin that?

    RON PAUL is the ONLY candidate that will actually LET you be an AMERICAN. Enlighten yourself and join the revolution.

    RON PAUL OR BUST!!!

    “THE ORIGINAL AMERICAN PATRIOTS WERE THOSE INDIVIDUALS BRAVE ENOUGH TO RESIST WITH FORCE THE OPPRESSIVE POWER OF KING GEORGE. I ACCEPT THE DEFINITION OF PATRIOTISM AS THAT EFFORT TO RESIST OPPRESSIVE STATE POWER. THE TRUE PATRIOT IS MOTIVATED BY RESPONSIBILITY, AND OUT OF SELF INTEREST — FOR HIMSELF, HIS FAMILY, AND THE FUTURE OF HIS COUNTRY — TO RESIST GOVERNMENT ABUSE OF POWER. HE REJECTS THE NOTION THAT PATRIOTISM MEANS OBEDIENCE TO THE STATE.”

  75. Dr. Ron Paul is our last hope.
    Every time a candidate for change in Washington has come close to winning, the Demopublicans and Republicrats have changed the rules and made it harder to get anybody different in office. That is why Dr. Paul has said he is not considering a third party run. It is almost impossible due to the rules to get on the ballots and raise money and advertise. After this election period (and maybe before) you will see more strict FEC rules put in effect, possibly regulating blogs and internet polls.

  76. one day soon all will know and understand God is back in town.

  77. Everyone says money talks right? So Ron Paul goes out and raises $5 million on word of mouth, reputation and message and the “mainstream” media still wants to sweep him under the rug as a quack. Tell that to 35,ooo people who put their money where their mouth is and donated to his campaign. Ronpaul2008.com

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