Militarization of Police

Talkin' 'Bout the Guns of Brixton Blues

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The SWAT sagas continue…

In Montreal , it looks as if a "Cory Maye north" situation is shaping up. Basile Parasiris was home with his family when a paramilitary police team broke into the house with a battering ram as part of a larger drug raid. With son on the phone with 911, Parasiris exchanged fire with the raiding cops, believing them to be thieves. He shot two, killing one. Police returned fire, wounding Parasiris' wife. Police found no drugs in the home. Parasiris' gun was legal and registered. He's being charged with first-degree murder for the shooting of the dead officer, and attempted murder for the shooting of the wounded one.

Meanwhile in Ohio…

Georgette Prince was making a quick run to the store last Thursday morning for orange soda and lottery tickets—a venture that should have been an uneventful five-minute trip but became a terrifying 20-minute ordeal.

The unsuspecting Prince was caught in the storm of a SWAT team raid that had her in fear for her life.

"I thought I was going to be shot. I thought I was going to die," Prince recalled over the weekend as she sat in the living room of her Grace Avenue home.

She said she was just stepping out the front door of Mr. Pantry, a Copley Road convenience store, when her world became a frantic, frightening blur of guns, shouts and shoves of helmeted, armored men with guns.

"I didn't know what was going on," Prince said.

[…]

"I was holding the pop in my arms and was backing out the door, pushing it open with my back," Prince said.

"The next thing I know, I'm being shoved back into the store and someone is pointing a rifle at me, yelling at me to get back, get back and to get down on the floor."

With the rifle trained on her and an officer clad in helmet and body armor advancing toward her, Prince went to the floor face-down. She said her hands were pulled behind her back and she was handcuffed.

"I was crying and telling them my son was outside in the car," she said.

[…]

Outside the store, Prince's son found himself in an equally frightening situation as he stared down the barrel of a rifle.

"I was just sitting in the car waiting for my mom" when a SWAT officer pointed a rifle at him, Davonte said.

"He was looking at me through the rifle's scope and telling me to get out of the Jeep, get on the ground and put my hands behind my back," Davonte said.

The Perkins Middle School student said he complied and lay on the ground, which was wet from the morning's rain.

The officer "asked me how old I was, searched me, then took me to the back of the jeep," said Davonte, who acknowledged he was frightened.

After questioning the officers involved, the sheriff's office confirmed the Prince family's version of the day's events for the most part, but noted that standard entry procedures were followed.

"We believe everything was done according to the book," said Keith Thornton, an inspector with the sheriff's office. He stressed that officers "did nothing wrong and followed protocol and procedure."

Capt. Richard Roach, who was at the scene as the tactical command leader, concurred with Thornton's assessment.

"It was a standard SWAT entry," Roach said. "It is designed to be quick, loud and startling."

The SWAT team raid corresponded with a shoplifting investigation.

The justification from the officers is absurd, but typical. Golly. As long as we follow "procedure," all is hunky-dory, right? Never mind the terrified woman and her son.

Yes, no one was shot. This time. But how can anyone in his right mind think this is an appropriate police tactic? There was no imminent threat, here. They could have nabbed the suspected shoplifter store-owner as he was coming or going. Instead, they had to play Rambo, blaze into a retail store, and terrorize innocent people.

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  1. Holy shit. I live only a few minutes away from Mr. Pantry. This is the first I’ve ever heard of these para-military raids in Akron, but now I know it won’t be the last.

    Fucking pigs.

  2. From the article, it sounds like she wasn’t involved in the shoplifting ring. Not that as matters as far as the use of SWAT to prevent the imminent danger to Twix bars, aspirin, and Milk, but do you know if she was charged with anything, Radley?

    Or was it one of those, throw her down with a gun in her face, cuff her, scream accusations, demand a confession, only to realize she’s innocent and let her go as if nothing happened situations?

    Where’s Russ to tell us that because no one was killed, these tactics are OK and equivalent to a uniformed officer asking her stop and besides, the police get the practice they need for “real” dangerous situations?

  3. No, she wasn’t a suspect. They were after the store owner.

  4. Perhaps we should let Inspector Thornton know how we feel about his “protocol and procedure.” Per the contact information on an unrelated press release from his office:

    INSPECTOR KEITH THORNTON SUMMIT COUNTY SHERIFF’S OFFICE (330) 643- 5455 OR (330) 351-1501

    JMJ

  5. I think this sort of thing is partially responsible for creating an insurgency over here.

  6. That’s doubly awful. I love to meet the guy who though that “correct procedure” would include raiding a store to look for stolen goods during business hours while there are customers inside. Of course, that’s what they do when they raid a bar looking for age/drug violations, so I guess it should be no surprise.

  7. I love to meet the guy who though

    I’d love to meet the guy who thought…

  8. Basile Parasiris took out two trained paramilitary policeman who surprised him and wasn’t wounded himself? While I’m sorry for the cops, he should get the legion of honor for single-handedly undermining the stereotypes about the French.

  9. The circumstances as described here are pretty confusing: the store owner is suspected of shoplifting? In his own store? Be that as it may, shoplifting, in common parlance, is not a violent crime. Consequently, the cop who approved this exercise should be busily updating his resume, while on UNPAID “administrative leave.”

  10. I think any special that immunity that police have from being sued needs to go. They are civilians doing only what every citizen’s job is.

  11. Haven’t read the Montreal article yet (can’t pull it up from my work computer for some reason), but as for the Ohio case, I fail to see how it makes any sense. They “knew there was the potential for customers to be in the store”, but they went in with the SWAT team because the target was violent and known to have guns. Well, that’s great. Not only are you terrorizing any customers that might be in the store but you’re also putting them at significant risk of being right in the middle of the crossfire between the target of the raid and the police. Just brilliant. Truly.

  12. With son on the phone with 911, Parasiris exchanged fire with the raiding cops, believing them to be thieves. He shot two, killing one.

    Cop schadenfreude is the best schadenfreude.

    Really – fuck ’em.

  13. We may not be able to shoot you, but we can shoot your wife, oui?

  14. Somewhere, up the chain of command, is some poltiician who can be ousted at the next election for allowing this kind of caper to go on without punishment for those who planned and authorized such an operation. We need the ACLU and the Institute for Justice to take on out-of-control and excessive police tactics.

  15. …for single-handedly undermining the stereotypes about the French.

    Abdul, while they do speak the language French-Canadians have not had any association with the nation of France for well over two hundred years. And when they did they tended to view that country as a remote and indifferent colonial master.

    It’s sort of like applying the stereotypes of the English to Americans because Americans speak English.

    As to the event I had thought that this sort of thing might be unlikely in Montreal since I thought they had significantly revised their SWAT rules.

    If any stereotype is blown it is the image of Canadians as peace-loving folks with a live-and-let-live attitude towards drugs.

  16. The people in law enforcment are just monkeys. They are just monkeys anymore. Further, their ability to be absolutely gutless and ballless never fails to amaze me. Give me a gun and a badge and I will go to any neighborhood in this country. These clowns can’t walk into a convience store without shoving assault rifles in people’s faces because “the safety of the officer is paramount”.

    No it really isn’t. The safety of the officer is important, but it is not paramount. Perhaps these monkeys should think about the whole “protect and serve” thing. Their job is to protect civilians. That means that they are expected as part of their job to risk in some rare cases sacrifice their lives for the general public. That means that if SWAT procedures can reduce the chance of an officer being shot are not justified if they corrispondingly increase the chances of innocent people being shot. That is not how these people think. They have the “rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6” mentality. The bottomline is the police consider their lives more important than not just the criminal they are pursueing but any innocent people who happen to be in the way.

  17. In all reality shoplifting is a greater burden on the individuals in society than drug use. At least you can identify a victim and assign a value.

    I am telling you all these guys are OBVIOUSLY not that bright or just so gung ho and overly empowered they just don’t think period. A few tip calls for properly selected homes given to the right agencies on places to find drugs or now the new and improved no knock standard shoplifter RAID. This is all it will take.

    Its obvious they don’t actually investigate anything they are now just like politicians and react over the top without thinking. So what are the odds they will know they are kickin down the door to some politicians daughters home, all they see is the DRUGSSSSSSS. As with anything its not how many people die or how invasive it is to liberty and freedom that motivates change from law makers because they don’t suffer for the laws they create. Once they start I assure you the laws will change.

    Fight fire with fire. Oddly enough that is the whole problem with the Raid tactics. They expect everyone to meet them with open arms after they wake you up kicking in your door. Kumbahyah..

  18. Plus, “Basile Parasiris” is not French, or French Canadian, or Quebecois: he’s Greek.

  19. How many of these do we need to officially declare Akron/Ohio/USA to be a police state?

  20. The circumstances as described here are pretty confusing: the store owner is suspected of shoplifting? In his own store?

    I assume the store owner was acting as a fence in this case.

  21. “I assume the store owner was acting as a fence in this case.”

    So the procedure to make a garden variety arrest on a petty non-violent crime is now to kick down the door, and terrorize everyone in a 100 foot radius and risk an accidental discharge and the resulting risk of death? Walking in the store and telling the guy he is under arrest just won’t work anymore since we all know that stolen goods fences are known killers who would think nothing of turning a petty fencing charge into a capital one by shooting the cop who came to arrest him. That is pathetic. Why would they do that? I will tell you because they like to terrorize the people they arrest. It is not good enough for them to just enforce the law. No, they have to take this guy down and teach him a lesson. What that says is that the police are more interested in terrorizing the public than they are in doing their jobs.

  22. It tells me that arrest statistics are more important than the lives of the public that are allegedly being protected.

  23. While technically not shoplifting the store owner was a certain Middle Eastern gentleman, charging higher than a “fair” price, thus was guilty of price gouging, which is the equivalent of shop lifting from his customers.

  24. Abdul, while they do speak the language French-Canadians have not had any association with the nation of France for well over two hundred years. And when they did they tended to view that country as a remote and indifferent colonial master.

    Please do not confuse my sterotyping with facts.

  25. That means that if SWAT procedures can reduce the chance of an officer being shot are not justified if they corrispondingly increase the chances of innocent people being shot. That is not how these people think. They have the “rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6” mentality.

    Sounds like we need to have a lot more cops “tried by 12.”

  26. Basile Parasiris took out two trained paramilitary policeman who surprised him and wasn’t wounded himself? While I’m sorry for the cops,

    Why?

  27. These tactics are absolutely necessary to continue the preservation of the integrity involving the overall safety of american society and the continuation of liberty and freedom for all law abiding Americans. If a person cant see that they are either liberal, anti-american or a law breaker themselves.

    (or maybe homersexual or communist or a drug addict or some other non christian godless unpatriotic terrorista)

    can I get an Amen

  28. AMEN brotherben! AMEN!

    [grabs ankles]

  29. R C Dean,

    Cops aren’t robots. They have families. Even when they screw up, they still deserve a little respect. All the “F’ them” comments here go a little over the top. Believing that all cops are trigger-happy inhuman monsters is believing in a cartoonish stereotype (and that’s form someone who jumped in to make a cheap french joke) and oversimplifies the issue.

    If it’s wrong for the cops to think that all drug users and shop-lifters are potentially violent and require the SWAT treatment, why is it right for us to say “F’ them” to cops who get killed in the line of duty? Are the cops any less human?

  30. I wonder if there is anyway of having the prosecutor disbarred for bringing a case like this against Parasiris, or Corey Maye?

  31. “…the store owner was a certain Middle Eastern gentleman….”

    If that is the case, I’m surprised they didn’t send the bomb squad in to level the place, “just to be sure.”

  32. “Are the cops any less human?”

    When they think that arresting a shoplifter justifies using a SWAT team, they kind of set themselves up for that assumption you know?

  33. Plus, “Basile Parasiris” is not French, or French Canadian, or Quebecois: he’s Greek.

    Thank you. I did not realize that.

    Please do not confuse my sterotyping with facts.

    I’ll try to remember that. 🙂

  34. All this agreement is getting boring. Where are the trolls when we need them?

    Come out, come out, wherever you are!

  35. My question is, Couldn’t they have waited another 30 seconds for the Princes to leave the parking lot? Blocked traffic to prevent other customers from coming into the area? What was so all-fired pressing about making this arrest that it couldn’t have waited? Maybe I missed something, but what did the Princes have to do with it in the first place?

  36. If it’s wrong for the cops to think that all drug users and shop-lifters are potentially violent and require the SWAT treatment, why is it right for us to say “F’ them” to cops who get killed in the line of duty? Are the cops any less human?

    Abdul, stop trying to ruin our cop bashing with reasoned arguments.

  37. Shoplifters are all dangerious felons, look at Winona Ryder, won’t like to take her down, without a whole SWAT team behind me. As for jaywalkers and people with ovedue library fines, there you had better just shoot them from a distance to be on the safe side.

  38. People should start calling in tips of drug activity at local politicians houses. I think we’d see these raids stop real quick.

  39. Roach said it was understood that there was “the potential for customers” inside the store. But he said SWAT operations are done in a carefully coordinated and precise time frame.

    “Once we are rolling, we are rolling,” Roach said.

    OK, now that is some bullshit. According to Eric Haney in “Inside Delta Force,” Delta trains to abort missions right up to the last second. It’s not fun and it’s not easy, but it’s necessary to adapt to changing situations–like, say, innocent people in the crossfire. In this case, I’m for SWAT being more like special forces.

    “Once we are rolling” my ass.

  40. The reason the cops are being treated like robots is because they are acting like them. None of the are questioning the methods when they are being briefed. They are “cowboying up” instead. Egon makes a great point, a raid can be, and should be, aborted if the parameters have changed to where there is more risk for the public. Also, instead of getting the mom & kid out of harms way, they were treated like criminals, with rifles in their faces, thrown to the ground, and cuffed. Yet another example of being robots, everyone is a criminal until they are proven innocent.

    Nick

  41. Cannot agree with Abdul. While everyone is human and makes mistakes, your actions and attitudes after the mistake make all the difference in whether I forgive you or say “f’em”.

  42. We the white, god fearing residents of Rock Ridge….

  43. “Cops aren’t robots. They have families. Even when they screw up, they still deserve a little respect.”

    Respect is earned, not given. There is nothing in either of these stories that compells me to give respect to any of the authorities involved with these utterly shameful activities.

  44. I got those murdertrain a-comin’ blues

  45. What was happening was Operation Milkman, an investigation of a multimillion-dollar, multicounty shoplifting ring that led last Thursday morning to raids at nine businesses and the arrests of nearly two dozen people in Summit, Portage and Medina counties.
    Summit sheriff’s deputies and Akron police swooped down on Mr. Pantry and seven other small neighborhood stores in Akron, confiscating allegedly stolen goods and arresting the stores’ owners.

    In these massive raids all the officers synchronize watches and hit the door as the second hand ticks past twelve. Regardless of what is happening at each scene. Dumb. Dangerous.

    It would be much safer to wait a few minutes until the store is clear, then have one uniformed officer step in the door and say, “Put your hands on the counter. I’m going to arrest you. If you reach for your piece my partner is going to shoot you with her shotgun.”

  46. The more frequent use of SWAT teams wouldn’t be necessary if guns weren’t as easy to come by as buying a pack of cigarettes. Anyone can purchase a gun these days.

    The terrorized civilians in this story can thank the NRA for their ordeal.

  47. When they came for the tyrants, I didn’t speak up…

  48. Purrrrrfect timing!

  49. That was the sound of a de-clawed pussy cat.

  50. Cops aren’t robots. They have families. Even when they screw up, they still deserve a little respect. All the “F’ them” comments here go a little over the top. Believing that all cops are trigger-happy inhuman monsters is believing in a cartoonish stereotype (and that’s form someone who jumped in to make a cheap french joke) and oversimplifies the issue.

    If it’s wrong for the cops to think that all drug users and shop-lifters are potentially violent and require the SWAT treatment, why is it right for us to say “F’ them” to cops who get killed in the line of duty? Are the cops any less human?

    Abdul,

    Why is it right? While it can be said it is never “right” to take pleasure in the death of others, the idea of just desserts applies here. Here is a member of an armed group whom either through his own ignorance (which it can never be stated enough, is never an excuse for violent behavior) or through his own ** participated in the violent attack on an innocent household. At no point during the execution of the attack did the officer question the validity of the data or the necessary use of force in this case. No on location information reconnaissance was made to see who was in the home. A simple infrared scan would have indicated the presence of children.

    So while it may be unfair to think all cops are like this, it is also unfair for all cops to think every house holds nefarious drug dealers and weapons smuglers. We are using as much proof and logic in our “F” them comments as they do in their raids.

    I will always be wary of cops. I will never in my life trust a single cop no matter how nice he seems, on duty or off. Why? Because I don’t know what type of cop I’m dealing with and they have the guns.

  51. “Orange soda and lottery tickets”

    LOL

  52. Dan T.

    Or the NRA can be thanked that people like Mr. Parasiris are able to defend themselves against un-invited assailants on their home and family. The use of SWAT teams does not negate the need for good intelligence and a minimal level of on-scene reconnaissance (like infrared cameras, which would have easily told them how many people, where they stood, and their approximate age/build).

    One hopes cops are not uneducated ex-high school football stars/drop outs, and would be able to easily tell when SWAT raids are warranted given the amount of technology at their disposal. But time and time again they show that they don’t have this level of intelligence.

  53. Cannot agree with Abdul. While everyone is human and makes mistakes, your actions and attitudes after the mistake make all the difference in whether I forgive you or say “f’em”.

    Well, the action and attitude of at least one cop in Montreal after his mistake is that he’s dead. He’s the one who I have a tough time saying “f’em” towards. Sure, you can criticize the departmental policies, spokespeople, apologists, etc. But this guy won’t be able to apologize, reflect, show remorse or even continue making the same damn mistake over and over again.

  54. Dan T. | March 8, 2007, 11:37am | #

    The more frequent use of SWAT teams wouldn’t be necessary if guns weren’t as easy to come by as buying a pack of cigarettes. Anyone can purchase a gun these days.

    The terrorized civilians in this story can thank the NRA for their ordeal.

    What explains the Canadian story, Dan?

  55. Dan T. – Would you have the government provide enough armed guards in enough places at enough times to protect an unarmed citizenry from violent predators?

  56. Dan T. has obviously never purchased a firearm.

  57. If it’s wrong for the cops to think that all drug users and shop-lifters are potentially violent and require the SWAT treatment, why is it right for us to say “F’ them” to cops who get killed in the line of duty? Are the cops any less human?

    Of those two groups, which contains people acting like wannabe storm troopers, running around storming buildings and pointing guns in peoples’ faces for penny-ante offenses and asserting that it’s not possibly their fault if perfectly innocent suspects get shot?

    Fuck these police.

  58. But this guy won’t be able to apologize, reflect, show remorse or even continue making the same damn mistake over and over again.

    Some consequences of stupidity and arrogance are irreversible.

    Unfortunately for the rest of us, deaths like this get used to justify SWAT tactics.

  59. Akron cops have never been considered terribly friendly or easygoing, that’s for sure. This kind of thing pisses me off and tarnishes my generally positive view of the Akron area.

    There’s a definite sore spot regarding the city’s police force right now. The City is something like 40 officers short of being “fully staffed”, whatever that means. To take care of that, Mayor The Don practically dictated by fiat an income tax increase (it will go on a ballot many payers will never see, as they only work, but don’t live, in Akron). Some of the expected increased revenue is to go to hire full-time cops.

    Now in the interim, for the summer, the The Don – in one of his smarter moments – has proposed hiring part-time officers to cover the increased demand while they go about training the expected full-timers. Naturally, the FOP in Akron is all up in arms, accusing The Don of “union busting”. Never mind these guys are members of the Reserves, the Retired, the already part-time, the Sheriff’s Dept., the University Police or neighboring communities’ forces (and thus probably already unionized). They’re already trained to State standards.

    So that was a bit of a tangent…

  60. people get the government that they deserve

    it takes a special kind of population to tolerate liberal use of SWAT tactics in serving warrants on suspected scofflaws

    a class warfare disconnect or something

  61. alpha male,

    Good call. You beat me to it on the Basile Parasiris is Greek thing.

    “Orange soda and lottery tickets”

    LOL

    all kinds of stupid,

    What’s so funny? The kid needs to eat a healthy breakfast, right? 🙂

  62. Going to the store = a lottery ticket.

  63. Namely, if you’re not killed, you win.

  64. Abdul,

    I’ll stand with you. “F’em” is the wrong attitude. It dehumanizes your opposition. It dehumanizes you to your opposition.

    What if SWAT forces raided some guy who was not engaged in illegal activity or was engaged in an illegal but victimless activity, this guy recognized that he was being raided by the police, and he chose to fire upon them, would you still say fuck’em about the police?

    (By the way, Firefox spellchecker does not recognize “victimless.” Interesting.)

  65. [quote]an uneventful five-minute trip but became a terrifying 20-minute ordeal.[/quote]

    Wow, lucky her. When I was an innocent bystander in a NYPD raid last year it was a 5-hour ordeal. Though admittedly only about the first 5 minutes were terrifying.

  66. Sorry, Abdul, but I just can’t work up any tears for anyone (cop or not) who is killed by someone acting in defense of their home and family. Period. Full Stop.

  67. What if SWAT forces raided some guy who was not engaged in illegal activity or was engaged in an illegal but victimless activity, this guy recognized that he was being raided by the police, and he chose to fire upon them, would you still say fuck’em about the police?

    If it was me or them, I’d open fire. And the way these SWAT teams act, you’d have to say they are putting your life and those of your family in immediate danger.

  68. “How many of these do we need to officially declare Akron/Ohio/USA to be a police state?”

    Given the context, do we bump that up to North America?

    But about the Akron case, if it’s stolen goods and the owner of the store and shoplifting, it’s really ahrd to put together. I could imagine the store owner stealing from delivery trucks or warehouses and selling in his store, but shoplifting goods from other stores to sell in his own??? How much could you make doing that?

  69. I still don’t understand how Mr. Parasiris made it out of this alive. Isn’t the whole point of a SWAT team to have a massive and overwhelming amount of firepower?

  70. The more frequent use of SWAT teams wouldn’t be necessary if guns weren’t as easy to come by as buying a pack of cigarettes. Anyone can purchase a gun these days.

    Don’t mean to be insulting you Dan, but this comment is one of the more stupid ones you’ve put up on this forum. If you’ll notice the first raid occurred in Canada, where the gun laws are much, much stricter than those here in the States.

    Indeed, Canada bans “assault weapons” and “Saturday Night Specials” and has mandatory registration of all guns. Everything the NRA opposes.

    The terrorized civilians in this story can thank the NRA for their ordeal.

    Considering the NRA doesn’t lobby in Canada (that’s primarily the duty of the National Firearms Association, an unrelated Canadian group), that’s a big accomplishment.

  71. For everyone who didn’t take the time to click on the link to the whole story:

    According to Prince, another customer, a man, ran toward the cooler when officers barged in and she saw the owner of the store at the counter.

    “He had a gun on his hip… ,” Prince said. “I was just hoping he didn’t do anything. I was thinking if the owner made any kind of move, I was going to get killed.

    The owner was armed, with a gun on his side and was purportedly dangerous. Once again, if he never had the gun in the first place the SWAT team would have been unnecessary. But the right-wing slackjaws on this site don’t seem to get that.

    And, oh yeah, there’s this:

    He said one of the officers picked up Prince’s lottery tickets from the floor and gave them to her.

    “An officer apologized to her for the unfortunate situation,” Roach said. “He explained to her that she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.”

    Thornton said a letter will be sent to Prince apologizing for the fact that she was “caught up” in an unfortunate situation.

  72. Yes, I’m sure the letter will make all that unnecessary bullshit that happened to her go away.

    Dan, you’re either trolling or incredibly naive (I’d say it’s about 70/30).

  73. Sorry, Abdul, but I just can’t work up any tears for anyone (cop or not) who is killed by someone acting in defense of their home and family. Period. Full Stop.

    Look, I’m not saying that Parasiris did the wrong thing. It sounds like he did the right thing and prosecuting him for his reaction is wrong. He reasonably, but wrongly, believed that the cops were criminals. So how do you know that the cops in this case weren’t also acting under reasonable, but wrong, beliefs? Even Parasiris regrets it himself.

    Parasiris’s brother, Nick, said the family is sorry for the death of Tessier, a father of two adolescent girls – but maintained his brother had no idea it was police in his house

    There’s no reason to be less charitable than the guy who was actually involved in the incident.

  74. But the right-wing slackjaws on this site don’t seem to get that.

    I actually had the opportunity to see a family of right-wing slackjaws in the wild on my birding trip last summer.
    It was breathtaking.

  75. I am just know realizing that the movie “Brazil” isn’t a fucking joke…

  76. highnumber wins

  77. I get hard whenever a cop is killed. I love it. No I am not pro-criminal (circumventing the straw man) but if pedophiles, cops and murderers get taken down; I rejoice.

  78. I relinquish this thread. I don’t want to win a thread about rejoicing over police officers deaths.

    Classical Conservative,

    Grow up. Grow a heart.
    You’re sick in the head.

  79. I concur, actually.

    There’s a difference between noting “so-and-so earned a well-deserved Darwin Award” and being happy about it.

    JMJ

  80. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not rejoicing over the dead cops here. I wish they weren’t dead. But its really hard for me to say that they weren’t killed in self-defense, and that means it wasn’t wrong to kill them.

  81. The owner was armed, with a gun on his side and was purportedly dangerous.

    Yeah, why would anyone who is trying to run a crime magnet like a quick-stop store ever need a gun.

  82. R C,

    Ya see, Dan probably already thought of that, but being trollish and/or really believing that a gun may not be a useful tool to such a proprietor, he said what you quoted.

  83. Classical Conservative,

    Grow up. Grow a heart.
    You’re sick in the head.

    I have a heart, it just isn’t a bleeding one.

  84. There’s a difference between noting “so-and-so earned a well-deserved Darwin Award” and being happy about it.

    And I’m literally happy. I’m taking my womanfriend out for coffee (I don’t drink, it is degenerate) to celebrate.

  85. I think we have a twisted, ironic troll on our hands.
    bj, is that you?

  86. I think we have a twisted, ironic troll on our hands.
    bj, is that you?

    Of course, anyone who has a minority viewpoint is a troll.

  87. How is posting a reductio-sarcastic post presenting a minority viewpoint?

    Or do you literally sprout wood when a cop is killed?

  88. bj,
    It must be you!

  89. Dan T:

    Actually, it is harder to buy firearms today than it was before the Gun Control Act of 1968. The first SWAT teams were formed in 1969.

  90. methodman wrote:

    I still don’t understand how Mr. Parasiris made it out of this alive. Isn’t the whole point of a SWAT team to have a massive and overwhelming amount of firepower?

    These were CANADIAN cops.

    Note the score:

    trained, prepared assailants with element of surprise: 2 KIA

    untrained, surprised defenders: 1 WIA

    The difference is like a chase between a cheetah and an antelope. The deer is running for her life, the cat is only running for her lunch.

    The cops were attacking for their jobs. The victim was defending his wife.

  91. For a blast from the past, consider the kgBATF assault at Waco. I think that it would have been amusing if the ninjas had swarmed into the building, then after half an hour or so, the TV crews had taped the Branch Davidians answering the door with “Cops? What cops? You say that they came in HERE . . ?”

    I still remember that one ninja, whimpering to the reporters “We thought we were attacking a CHURCH . . !”

    Ponder the statement, and what he unwittingly revealed about his agency.

  92. The more frequent use of SWAT teams wouldn’t be necessary if guns weren’t as easy to come by as buying a pack of cigarettes. Anyone can purchase a gun these days. The terrorized civilians in this story can thank the NRA for their ordeal.

    Gunlaw Britain on the side of the criminals
    By Simon Heffer, The Daily Telegraph (UK) February 17, 2007
    “It is one of the great paradoxes of modern life that since the clamp-down on gun ownership after the hideous massacre at Dunblane in 1996, there are far more firearms in circulation than ever: and most appear to be in the hands of criminals, held without the knowledge of the police. The law actively persecutes licensed gun owners, while apparently letting the unlicensed ones run out of control.”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/02/17/do1703.xml

    Guns for hire at ?250 a night
    by Robert Mendick, The Evening Standard (UK) February 16, 2007
    “The ease with which firearms are available routinely on a rental basis emerges after a series of shootings in which three young men have died in south London in less than two weeks.”
    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23385772-details/Guns+for+hire+at+%C2%A3250+a+night/article.do

    Gun Laws that Constrain the Law-abiding
    by Steve Lee, The Daily Telegraph (UK) February 16, 2007
    “We have, post-Dunblane, what are said to be the toughest gun control laws in the world. They have actually proved strikingly ineffectual.
    “Gun crime has doubled since they were introduced. Young hoodlums are able to acquire handguns – either replica weapons that have been converted, or imports from eastern Europe – with ease. With no dedicated frontier police, our borders remain hopelessly porous. The only people currently incommoded by the firearms laws are legitimate holders of shotgun licences, who are subjected to the most onerous police checks.”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/02/16/dl1601.xml

    The U.S. based National Rifle Assoication does not influence laws in Great Britain.

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