Politics

Modesty Becomes Him

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Eliot "Trial by Press Release" Spitzer wears the humble, staid demeanor he honed as attorney general into the governor's mansion :

New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer was unabashed on Wednesday about declaring himself a "steamroller" and the most accomplished governor in the history of the state after three weeks on the job.

"I am a fucking steamroller and I'll roll over you or anybody else," the Democratic governor told Republican Assemblyman James Tedisco in a private conversation last week, the New York Post reported on Wednesday.

"I've done more in three weeks than any governor has done in the history of the state," Spitzer also said, the Post reported.

Asked at a news conference if the comments were inappropriately boastful, Spitzer replied tersely, "No. Next question."

Dave Weigel wrote on Spitzerian federalism last August.

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  1. At least he doesn’t repeat himself.

  2. You can say that again.

  3. I see the server squirrels have been practicing on Radley.

  4. At least he doesn’t repeat himself.

  5. Either I’m high, this post was repeated, or both.

    I think both.

  6. “The New York Post reported…”

    Um, not what I’d call the most reliable source.

  7. Finally, a politician that can actually speak. How fucking refreshing.

  8. Spitzer? An egomaniac? Who’d’a thunk it?

  9. Funny stuff. It’s refreshing to see a politician talk like he thinks for a change.

  10. reminds me of the Rick James schtick on the Dave Chapelle show

    “I’m Elliot Spitzer, bitch!”

    “cocaine’s a helluva drug”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_22ZW-Bxs0&NR

  11. It’s refreshing to see a politician talk like he thinks for a change.

    Not so refreshing, Dubya’s been doing that for 6 years.

  12. It’s refreshing to see a politician talk like he thinks for a change.

    Unless they think like Joseph Stalin. In which case its refreshing only to the extent that it leads to their early eviction from power. Unfortunately that’s what propels them into power to begin with. Even after their gone, we live with the damage in perpetuity.

  13. He did a pretty good job making cases of fraud that needed to be made. He overreached a few times and got slapped down, but he did some good work.

    That said, I’m glad I don’t live there.

  14. When did Reuters start using the f bomb in articles? That’s a fucking fascinating editorial decision.

  15. “I’ve done more in three weeks than any governor has done in the history of the state,”

    There’s a word missing from that quote.

    “I’ve done more harm in three weeks than any governor has done in the history of the state,”

    There, that’s better.

  16. Anyone who finds this “refreshing” instead of appalling is completely desensitized to the idea of limited government or elected officials as public servants.

  17. How’s that prosecution of Hank Greenberg going?

    Oh, wait, that’s right – he dropped all criminal charges. And put out a press release about it. On the Friday after Thanksgiving, 2005.

    But they’re still working on the civil suit. Riiiight.

  18. Giulani/ Spitzer ’08

    Sounds like fun.
    They’ll make the world a better place. For all the little children.

  19. “Anyone who finds this “refreshing” instead of appalling is completely desensitized to the idea of limited government or elected officials as public servants.”

    Eh. He was talking to another politician, not a neighborhood association.

  20. Anyone who finds this “refreshing” instead of appalling is completely desensitized to the idea of limited government or elected officials as public servants.

    Isn’t it up to the public to determine what they want out of their public servants? He won with almost 70% of the vote, fer chrissakes.

  21. Hey, how come nobody is whacking Weigel as a partisan shill for writing uncomplimentary things about a major party politician?

    Oh, that’s right – because Democrats don’t unfairly work the ref.

  22. Oh, that’s right – because Democrats don’t unfairly work the ref.

    This is amazing.

    Anyway, I don’t find it appalling, at least in comparison with his actual policy decisions and resume.

  23. Isn’t it up to the public to determine what they want out of their public servants? He won with almost 70% of the vote, fer chrissakes.

    Sure is. FSM help us all.

  24. Spitzer is a giant asshole.

    That he was elected governor of New York York is no surprise.

    Next!

  25. It’s the use of profanity that I find refreshing. Nothing else.

    I’ve often daydreamed of being elected to public office. Being an atheist, though, it’s a total fantasy. Since reality can’t intrude, I thought, “Maybe I should run on a pro-profanity platform.” Give the press and the public (and the FCC) enough to freak out about that they don’t have time to spread rumors that I’ll outlaw Christianity.

    I just want a chance to debate a major party candidate, so I can call him or her out on their bullshit in a forum where no one can help them spin their way out of it.

    It’s nice to dream.

  26. I wonder how many people who rightly decried the Bush Administration’s tolerance of actual physical torture failed to bat an eye when Attorney General Spitzer euphemized in an approving manner regarding how somebody who had yet been convicted of a crime would be subjected to extrajudicial sexual torture, or some other form of extrajudicial physical harm, when he found himself in a New York correctional facility. I wonder how such people would have reacted if Bush had once said to reporters, regarding somebody captured in Iraq, “He’s going to Abu Ghraib, and Abu Ghraib has an edge to it that is missing in a typical POW facility.”

    Spitzer is a thug, plain and simple.

  27. But they’re still working on the civil suit. Riiiight.

    These things take time. They are still working on figuring out who really profited from those suspicious 9-11 related options. And 9-11 was a long time ago.

  28. I am a fucking steamroller? That reminds me of this awesome incident:

    YNGWIE MALMSTEEN threatened to kill a fellow passenger on a flight to Tokyo, Japan after the woman poured a glassful of water on the guitarist.

    The passenger, who had no prior contact with Yngwie, allegedly overheard Malmsteen making derogatory comments about homosexuals and decided to show her disapproval by emptying the contents of her glass on the hefty axeman.

    A member of Yngwie’s touring entourage, who was traveling with Malmsteen at the time, had a tape recorder running and managed to catch Yngwie’s reaction on tape immediately after the guitarist was “assaulted” by the offended passenger.

    To download an MP3 file containing Yngwie’s response to the “water attack”, including his now-legendary phrase “You’ve unleashed the fucking fury,” click here (file size: 1.7 MB).

  29. Actually, it reminds me more Paul Anka’s famous backstage rant to his band members, wherein he said “when I move, I slice like a fucking hammer!”

  30. Unleash the fury, Mitch. Unleash the fury.

  31. Seitz – Of course it’s up to the public. Does that mean we can’t badmouth the man or the people that voted for him? What’s your personal assessment of people that voted for Bush? Should you keep it to yourself because he won the election? Of course not. Call it like you see it.

  32. Spitzer is what happens when there’s no accountability in government. He can loft charges at anybody he wants, because if he’s right, he scores, and if he’s wrong, who cares? He’ll move on to some other company. It was the same with the DOJ, which ran its mouth about Aurther Anderson. That company was later cleared of all wrong-doing, but they crumbled because the fed cranked up the heat so much. Tens of thousands of innocent people lost their jobs because DOJ shot from the hip, and nobody at DOJ lost their job.

  33. “extra-judicial sexual torture” is a sad mainstay of the American justice system that predates Spitzer’s lifetime. Analogizing (so to speak) Spitzer and prison rape to Bush and Abu Ghraib is idiotic. Bush presidency created Abu Ghraib, and action speaks much louder than words here.

  34. No, James, what is idiotic, imbecilic, and morally cretinous, is for you to paper over the fact that the Attorney General for the State of New York spoke approvingly of the fact that somebody who had yet to be convicted would be subjected to rape once he was incarcerated in a New York correctional facility. Spitzer didn’t invent political assasinations, either, but if he were to speak approvingly of the practice in regards to his political opponents, the fact that he wasn’t the originator of the practice wouldn’t make his behavior any less execrable. The fact that you cannot grasp this is equally execrable, to say nothing of equally thuggish. Congratulations.

  35. Spitzer actually spoke fondly of prison rape? I always thought that was a tv-cop thing to get younger accuseds to spill their guts in hopes of staying out of jail. Maybe there’s a circle in Hell where those who condone such practices can have such practices performed on them for eternity.

  36. I don’t care who he was talking to. He is an egomaniacal thug, and anyone who doesn’t have qualms about public offices being occupied by egomaniacal thugs has lost their way.

  37. Shocked, I am, that RC Dean would speak so unkindly of Dick Cheney.

    Wait, never mind.

  38. “‘I’ve done more in three weeks than any governor has done in the history of the state,’ Spitzer also said, the Post reported.”

    Will no one come to the defense of Frankie and Ted Roosevelt, various Clintons, Grover, Bill Seward, et. al.?

    Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall.

    (Apologies to German speakers for any mistakes; it’s from memory.)

  39. Here is what Spitzer said, regarding a white collar crime suspect….

    “This is state time?State prison has a certain edge to it that is not always present in the federal system. These prisons are not country clubs.”

    ….now, this is not as blatant as what the Attorney General of California advocated, when he pretty much openly stated that he wanted to ensure that Ken Lay was raped in prison, but you can be sure that “edge” is not a reference to bad food. The principal difference between state facilities and the overwhelming majority of federal lockups, is that prisoners are much more likely to be raped or otherwise assaulted in the state pens, often with the full knowledge of, or even instigation by, corrections officers. This is what Sptizer advocated, as the Attorney General of the State of New York. Gosh, isn’t it wonderful that such a moral organism has had even more political power accrue to him?

  40. Seitz – Of course it’s up to the public. Does that mean we can’t badmouth the man or the people that voted for him?

    By all means, no! That’s why I didn’t touch the “limited government” line. My point was that implying that he is a poor public servant doesn’t make much sense to me considering he’s overwhelmingly approved by the public he is serving.

    What’s your personal assessment of people that voted for Bush?

    They represent the intersection of evil and stupid.

    Should you keep it to yourself because he won the election?

    No. And I’d say the fact that, on the overriding issue of the day, his actions run contrary to what the public wants, he’s not serving the public very well. But that makes it incumbent upon me to work to put a more palatable alternative on the ballot.

  41. “I don’t care who he was talking to. He is an egomaniacal thug, and anyone who doesn’t have qualms about public offices being occupied by egomaniacal thugs has lost their way.”

    Oh, grow a pair. It’s not as if Spitzer was addressing a mob from a balcony. One pol laying it on thick on another pol. And in New York! My heavens…

  42. “State prison has a certain edge to it that is not always present in the federal system. These prisons are not country clubs.”

    You have to squint pretty hard to see “subjected to extrajudicial sexual torture” in that sentence.

  43. No, Joe, you have to naive about the nature of state correctional facilities, and their chief difference with most federal lock-ups, in terms of what affects the inmates most, to not recognize what Spitzer was alluding to. He was just a little more clever than Lockyer of California. No, Joe, “certain edge” wasn’t referring to the quality of the food or mattresses. What is most terrifying for the vast majority of new inmates in most state prisons is the prospect that they will be, violently preyed upon, including rape, and the thug Spitzer was using that prospect in an effort to threaten the accused.

  44. I think the original poster of “subjected to extrajudicial sexual torture” confused Lockyer with Spitzer on that one. Although both represent the same species of political animal, Lockyer is a somewhat cruder version.

  45. No, Will, you don’t “have to be naive” about anything. You just need to have the ability not to read gay sex into everything. I don’t need your passionate lectures about the issue; I’m well aware of it, thanks. Drop the “I’ve been around the world” pose, mm-kay?

    I just think you’re seriously over-reading the comment. There aren’t ANY quality of life issues that he could be referring to?

    This is obviously something that’s a big deal to you. I guess when you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  46. Eh. He was talking to another politician, not a neighborhood association.

    [partial sarcasm]
    In effect, he was talking to that other politician’s constituency… which includes several neighborhood associations.
    [/partial sarcasm]

  47. Joe, the fact that you equate the rape of powerless inmates in American prisons with “gay sex” pretty much proves that you are incredibly ignorant, and very much in need of being lectured. Stop being ignorant, and I’ll stop lecturing.

    You just go right ahead and tell yourself that Spitzer just meant that the laundry isn’t done as nicely at Attica or Sing Sing….

  48. I’m not even going to argue with you, Will. I’m just going to re-paste the quotes.

    “State prison has a certain edge to it that is not always present in the federal system. These prisons are not country clubs.”

    – Elliot Spitzer

    “…Attorney General Spitzer euphemized in an approving manner regarding how somebody who had yet been convicted of a crime would be subjected to extrajudicial sexual torture…”

    – Will Allen

    The thing speaks for itself. You’re being a loon.

  49. Ya’ know, Joe, in the early 20th century, there was a South Carolina politician who would perform his stump speech to exclusively white crowds while holding a noose. Now, we can’t really be sure of what he meant by that, can we? Perhaps he just was in favor of the reintroduction of hemp as an agricultural crop.

    Really, the Attorney General of New York is ignorant of the fact that criminal defense attorneys will go to great lengths to get their clients incarcerated in Federal lock-ups, instead of state pens, primarily because Federal lock-ups subject their clients to a far lesser risk of being violently preyed upon, including rape. Thus, Sptizer’s comments had nothing to do with threatening an accused with extrajudicial violence. Really. Just like prison rape is about “gay sex”.

  50. I’ll have to do it myself. Here are just two of Spitzer’s predecessors who actually accomplished something.

    DeWitt Clinton was largely responsible for the Erie Canal. How many canals has Spitzer built?

    William Seward reformed the state’s prisons. How many prisons has Spitzer reformed?

    I could go on but Spitzer, as he has accomplished almost nothing so far, ought to shut up.

  51. Will, do you advocate the abolition of the states’ respective criminal justice systems? Anything short of that is implicitly an endorsement of the practices therein.

    If you want a judicial system that deters crime, then you have to make all parts of the system horrific. People who spend their careers involved in such a system understand that, adjust to the thought, and perhaps sometimes are excited at the prospect of it actually punishing the guilty (e.g. AG Spitzer).

    You are so outspoken on the subject here. I wonder, before today, what you’ve ever done to move anyone toward improving our prison systems in this regard?

  52. James, what does running prisons as lawful environments have to do with abolishing a state’s criminal justice system? Are you seriously suggesting that an Attorney General does not have the responsibility to ensure that the state prisons within the borders of the state he serves are operated in as lawful a manner as possible, and he should not refrain from using the violently lawless nature of the prisons he has responsibility for as a means of threatening citizens who have yet to be convicted of a crime? Or that threatening people with illegal violence is a legitimate way for the state to deter crime?

    As for what I have done, I’ve advocated for years that prison be reserved for the violent offenders or extreme recidivists. I’ve supported for years the proposal that more money be spent on operating prisons in a manner which minimizes violent lawlessness within their walls. I’ve suggested that officeholders who support or utilize lawless prison environments as a means to extrajudicially punish inmates be thrown out of office. No, I’ve not devoted my life to the cause, but then again, I’ve never arrested a murderer either, but that doesn’t render my denunciation of murder any less valid.

  53. At least Spitzer didn’t explicitly order extrajudicial punishment, nor demonstrably go out of his way to create such environments. The Bush presidency did. Your original analogy is thus inappropriate.

    I still have to wonder if your support, advocacy, and suggestions regarding lawless prison environments are limited to discussions where politicians you dislike are most culpable? Apparently Spitzer is culpable for discussing the nature of NY state prisons, where the Bush presidency’s creation of unspeakable (but well photographed) horrors in a prison in a foreign state are beside the point here? The inconsistency of your original position is what I take issue with. And the “arrest[ing] a murderer” analogy is too cute. Perhaps you should just leave analogies to the pro’s?

  54. James, you’d be better served by working a little harder at becoming literate prior to suggesting that somebody leave something to the pros. First you toss out an idiotic non-sequitur about abolishing a state’s criminal justice system, now you stupidly suggest that I asserted that what the Bush Administration has done in regards to promoting torture is “beside the point”, when, in fact, I wrote…

    “”…people who rightly decried the Bush Administration’s tolerance of actual physical torture …

    …thus explicitly stating it was good to denounce what the Bush Administration has done. Does rather basic reading comprehension normally present such a titanic challenge for you?

    Now if you want to suggest that an Attorney General using the criminally violent nature of prisons, prisons for which he has a responsibility for law enforcement, in order to threaten the accused, is more acceptable than a President putting forth policies which result in criminal violence, you go right ahead. It is consistent with the moral decrepitude you’ve exhibited throughout this thread.

  55. “Ya’ know, Joe, in the early 20th century, there was a South Carolina politician who would perform his stump speech to exclusively white crowds while holding a noose. Now, we can’t really be sure of what he meant by that, can we?”

    Yes, we can. The noose in that context only means one thing.

    On the other hand, there are numerous unpleasant facts of life related to being in prison.

  56. Yes, Joe, and the most nortorious, the one which is used as the coin of the realm between defense attorneys and prosecuters, in regards to federal vs. state facilities, is that the inexperienced inmate in a state pen is much more likely to be fed into the meat grinder.

    You’d make a terrific flak for a politician. Maybe Sptizer is hiring.

  57. While we’re handing out career counselling, Will, you should give a call to Al Sharpton.

    You can divine politically-covenient hidden messages like no one I’ve ever seen.

    He says that federal prisons are nicer than state prisons; ergo, he’s threatening people not yet convicted of any crime with “extrajudicial sexual torture.”

    BTW, I love how your language is becoming less and less specific as I continune to call you out.

  58. Will, your self-righteousness is matched only by your arrogance!

    The status-quo of every state’s prison system (and NY’s in particular, if you wish) versus the official state policy depravity of Bush’s Abu Ghraib are quite different, my thick-skulled friend, and until you can grasp it, you’ve no right to speak of moral decrepitude.

  59. Well, yes, Joe, the most nortorous aspect of the most nortorious difference between federal and state lock-ups, is the much higher incidence of rape, which, when correctional facilities tolerate the activity, and indeed use it as a means of punishing inmates (which has been established regarding the State of New York’s correctional facilities), amounts to extrajudicial sexual torture. Why do you find wholly accurate descriptive langauge bothersome? Are your tribal loyalties so strong that you must cling to the fantastic notion that when an Attorney General/prosecutor points out how an accused, if convicted, will be made to suffer the “edge” of a state prison, he is not referring to the most nortorious, and feared, aspect of that “edge”, in a context in which state and local prosecutors commonly use that fear as a cudgel? How many times have you purchased the Brooklyn Bridge? Or do you merely defend those that pretend to be rightful sellers of that famous span?

  60. Like I said, james, you go right ahead and assert that it is more acceptable to have an Attorney General use the illegal violence that he has a responsibility for combatting as a means of threatening people who’ve yet to be convicted. That pretty much establishes what you are. How are the reading lessons going?

  61. The assertion, my simple friend, is these state prison systems have not changed for generations, so implicit popular support is clear. Therefore, one public official’s uncreative complicity can hardly be equated to a Presidency ordering prison guards to hook electrodes to POWs’ testicles, and intimidate nude piles of POWs with military attack dogs (etc, etc, etc…), in a break from the noble (and wise) traditions of American POW facilities in conflicts past.

    We can not be proud of our prisons (nor, as an aside, the percentage of our population locked in them), but we used to be proud of our POW facilities. If people did not single Spitzer out among all AGs across the nation for their moral outrage, but were outraged by the Bush presidency’s decisions, it would not be hypocritical. Your sophistry fails for this reason.

  62. …state prison systems have not changed for generations, so implicit popular support is clear.

    Did William Seward’s reform of New York’s prisons have implicit popular support? No, but he did it even though it hurt him politically (he lost re-election although not just because of prison reforms). Because he thought it was the right thing to do.

    I won’t hold my breath for Spitzer to risk his political future on doing the right thing.

  63. I’m just going to put up the quotes again, Will.

    “State prison has a certain edge to it that is not always present in the federal system. These prisons are not country clubs.”

    – Elliot Spitzer

    “…Attorney General Spitzer euphemized in an approving manner regarding how somebody who had yet been convicted of a crime would be subjected to extrajudicial sexual torture…”

    – Will Allen

  64. At one point, James, you ‘ol intellectual titan you, did implicit popular support become relevant to the whether it was morally acceptable to have inmates raped and beaten, with the complicity of the corrections systems, in fact, in New York, at the behest of correction offcials who wish to punish prisoners? Are you saying that if Bush had popular support for hooking the electrodes up, it would be less of an outrage?

    Furthermore, there is a difference between being complicit in the torture of inmates by failing to fufill one’s duty to the law, and overtly using the torture of inmates to threaten a citizen who stands accused of a crime. The latter is worse and the fact that you cannot grasp this is also revealing.

  65. Hey, Joe, you just go ahead and flak away for your boy. I’m sure Spitzer just wanted the accused to be aware that the recreation facilities weren’t as elaborate. Really.

  66. You are becoming less and less coherent Will, which is no great suprise of course. When did Spitzer request someone be raped and beaten? What are you talking about? Re-read my post, and when you’ve responded to it, I’ll respond to you.

    Also, you’re pretty weak if you think overtly using the torture of inmates to threaten a citizen who stands accused of a crime (to borrow your tortured prose) is anything more than a negotiating tactic in the practice of criminal law. Grow the fuck up.

  67. James, when an Attorney General in New York, a state where it has been established that correctional officers purposely put inmates in situations where they will be beaten and raped, as a means of punishment, tells an accused citizen that he will be subjected to the “edge” of the prisons that the Attorney General has the duty to enforce the law within, an “edge” that is lacking in federal lock-ups, that is a threat. Specifically, the Attorney General is threatening the accused with criminal violence.

    You see this as an acceptable negotiating tactic. This unsurprising, because you are a thug, and an illiterate one at that. Now, do you wish to put forth your idiotic non-sequitur about abolishing a state’s criminal justice system again, or once again put forth the illiterate lie that I said that anything the Bush Administration has done is “beside the point”?

    This assertion by you…..

    “If you want a judicial system that deters crime, then you have to make all parts of the system horrific. People who spend their careers involved in such a system understand that, adjust to the thought, and perhaps sometimes are excited at the prospect of it actually punishing the guilty (e.g. AG Spitzer).”

    …pretty much says it all. Here, you openly state that the Attorney General of New York is “excited” by the prospect of subjecting inmates to torture, torture that is necessary to deter crime. Thanks for the honesty, you illiterate thug.

  68. Stop imputing my observations to my ideals.

    When you have difficulty expressing yourself, it does mean others are illiterate, Will.

    If you think career criminals are at all fazed by such a statement from prosecutors, you are childish, a fool, or a childish fool.

    The world needs dreamers, Will, but dreamers are typically nice people, and you’re an asshole, so you need to change.

  69. Well, let’s see, james. You start an exchange in an insulting manner, and then complain that others are assholes. I guess we can add a complete lack of self-awareness to the list of your charming qualities, along with thuggishness, illiteracy, and run of the mill stupidity. Listen, when you interpret the phrase “rightly denounce…” to have precisely it’s opposite meaning, one can only conclude that you can’t read. Next, I still find it interesting that you thuggishly assume that someone accused of a crime is a “career criminal”, but one can also conclude from statements that you believe it acceptable for an Attorney General to threaten convicts with criminal violence, in order make the criminal justice system sufficently horrible. That you label other as being assholes is yet more irony. You are the sort of filth that has resulted in our prisons being in the condition they are. Congratulations.

  70. You insulted my intelligence with your original post. I merely responded in kind.

    If mine is run of the mill, then you must possess truly exceptional stupidity Will!

    You wanted to imply that Spitzer supporters were hypocrites, and you chose a poor analogy to serve your purpose. Bush’s actions and Spitzer’s were different, and the purposes behind Spitzer’s alleged statement and your hypothetical Bush statement were too. Supporters of Spitzer are not ipso facto hypocrites. Public officials are typically not nice people, and public institutions (particularly criminal justice systems) are not nice either. It appears that is the only way.

    Making observations about the workings of contemporary American criminal justice somehow makes me responsible for it? Do you really think, had I such powers, I should choose to waste my time on the likes of you?

  71. No, James you’re not responsible for it, but when you deny it is thuggish for an Attorney General to threaten an accused with criminal violence in the prisons he has a responsibility to enforce the laws within, in the context of prisons where correctional officials use torture to punish inmates, that makes you a thug also, and every bit as noxious as people who defend Bush’s torture policies. By the way, you astoundingly illiterate thug, “not nice” is not synonymous with “uses criminal violence to threaten people never convicted of a crime”. No, every prison in the U.S. doesn’t feature torture, and the fact that you assert that it is the “only way” is all that needs to be said, filth.

  72. I was born and raised in Albany NY and I am glad Spitzer said what he did, though he said it to the wrong guy. Jimmy Tedisco is a good guy and I wouldn’t be surprised if he becomes and allie of Elliot. Politics is a shady in Albany, its a dog eat dog mentality there. Joe Bruno and Sheldon Silver act more like mob bosses then anything. To reform the state you need to be tough as nails. Anything less shows weakness and the pyschophants in Albany will take advantage. I wrote Elliot last year, I actually really think he read my letter. I told him about my life in Albany and how he needed to be to change things. I am proud that he shows strength, he is the dawn on a new era in New York politics. I only wish that the economy was better so I could be living there to witness the fall of Bruno and Silver. Keep it up Elliot you will be president one day.

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