Full-frontal ultraviolence shots from Lebanon

Whether you're for, against, or undecided, no coverage of a war should be taken seriously unless it includes images of horrible violence.

If anybody has a gallery of Israelis similarly mutilated by Hezbollah I'll be happy to link it. As I noted long ago (scroll down the page a bit), Arab media are more comfortable with depicting bloody mayhem—even in local, non-political, police-blotter-type news—than are western media, so in this battle of the bodies Israel is at a disadvantage. In the meantime, here are the coffins of four-year-old Mahmoud and eight-year-old Rabiah Talussi, two citizens of Israel (Muslims, ironically) killed in Nazareth by a Hezbollah rocket.

Comments

[Buck Nail]

Disgusting.

Here's some one trying to make excuses for those dirty little jew girls.

http://ontheface.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2006/7/20/2142505.html

[Chad]

I wonder if they show all the same pictures when it is Muslims killing Mulsims. I wonder if they do so "in proportion", by which I mean that a Muslim murdered by a Muslim (or heavan forbid, a non-Muslim murdered by a Muslim) had an equally likely chance of his or her bloody corpse being shown on the TV or in the paper. Since they all seem so big on "proportionality" these days, I am sure this idea will fly.

It will be funny to see the look on their faces each day as they have to read through 99 pages of pictures of people slaughtered by Muslims before they can find the few pictures of Muslims slaughtered by those damned evil Jews on page 100. More Muslims were killed by other Muslims in Iraq last week than were killed in Lebanon. Where is the "proportionate" coverage?

Oh, I bet they don't like this kind of "proportionality".

[DB]

If anybody has a gallery of Israelis similarly mutilated by Hezbollah I'll be happy to link it.

Translation: "I'm going to go ahead and publish this Hezbollah propaganda. If anyone feels like doing my job for me and actually finding some objective data on the conflict, feel free to let me know".

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Yes, dirty little Jew girls. That's how it all began in the first place. Maybe you'd like to fire up the ovens again.

[The Owner's Manual]

Tim, I doubt you'll find any legitimate pix of non-Islamic torture and mutilating death. And you needn't be afraid of offending the Religion of Peace. They're proud of beheadings. But Abu Ghraib demonstrated westerners, particularly the dhimmitude-afflicted, are horribly squeamish about non-Islamic abuses while swallowing Islamic atrocity with a smile.

[DB]

I wonder if they show all the same pictures when it is Muslims killing Mulsims.

Those very well might BE pictures of Muslims killing Muslims. There's no evidence in those pictures that the dead were killed by the Israelis, nor (with the obvious exception of young children) is there evidence that they were civilians. Given that the people who run the site are neither honest (they claim Israel is using chemical weapons on the Lebanese) nor rational (they explicitly compare Israel to Nazi Germany) there doesn't seem to be any reason to take their word for it that Israelis did the killing.

[Jon H]

See, if they really wanted to be effective, they'd show the blastocysts killed by Israeli shelling.

Then Bush would break out the whoop-ass.

[Jon h]

So, this is all about some abducted people, right?

So that means it would be okay for Canada and Germany (among others) to start bombing the US because we abducted their innocent citizens and had them tortured.

Right?

I'm trying to keep this straight.

[Jamie Kelly]

Tim Cavanaugh:
You ought to be fucking ashamed of yourself.
Just what in the hell have you people at Reason become? Propagandists for Islamo-fascist filth?
If it were up to them, they'd make you and your family look exactly the same way, though instead of mourning for you and sharing photos your horrificly mutilated bodies for the world to see, they'd hold up your head and scream to the empty cosmos how great their god is.
Your offer to link to more horrific photos from the other side of this devastation only reveals the depth of your depravity.
Disgusting? Yes, you are.
Reason is becoming nothing more than an outpost for leftists.
Jesus fucking Christ.

[Brian24]

But Abu Ghraib demonstrated westerners, particularly the dhimmitude-afflicted, are horribly squeamish about non-Islamic abuses while swallowing Islamic atrocity with a smile.

Yes, I noticed the West's tendency to react to Islamic atrocity with a smile after 9/11.

[Brian24]

Jamie Kelly,

Surely anybody who is going to support a military action anywhere in the world ought to be able to look at the results of that action (hell, ought to be forced to look at the results). It's not defending Hezbollah to show pictures of the results of Israeli bombing. It's not even saying the bombing wasn't justified. It's just showing the consequences of that action, which should certainly be considered by all.

That said, DB has a point. These are not necessarily civilians, or even people involved in this bombing at all. For all we know those are pictures of Baghdad or Sri Lanka. War has a horrifying sameness.

[Jon H]

Whatsa matter Jamie, afraid to look on the true face of war?

[Kevin]

Uh, this isn't islamo propaganda this came from christians in lebanon...most likely marionites...so catholics.

Also a lot more lebanese civilians have died then Israeli...and by a lot oh about 10x. And Israel does a lot more of the appealing to emotions as whenever an israeli gets killed it is "A grandmother and grandchild were killed when a rocket hit (insert town name here)." Versus a report of lebanese deaths is usually "1 member of Hezbollah was killed and 58 civilians were killed in an israeli airraid today"

[Jamie Kelly]

Jon H
I saw it, you fuck. What, were you in bed reading the Utne Reader on Sept. 11?
Dumbshit.

[Jamie Kelly]

Jon H
I saw it, you fuck. What, were you in bed reading the Utne Reader on Sept. 11?
Dumbshit.

[Jon H]

Brian24 writes: "That said, DB has a point. These are not necessarily civilians, or even people involved in this bombing at all. For all we know those are pictures of Baghdad or Sri Lanka. War has a horrifying sameness."

Yeah, I remember the same kind of empty rhetoric about pictures of casualties from the start of the Iraq war. People tried to make up excuses, denied they could be from American weapons, claimed that they were from Iraqi shells, etc.

As much as you want to excuse the "good guys" from causing horrible deaths, it's just denial. It is simply not possible to throw around as much ordinance as the Israelis are using, cause this much destruction, without causing this kind of death and destruction.

That there are lots of pictures is simply a reflection of modern technology. For every grotesque corpse in Lebanon, there are probably half a dozen camera phones in close proximity.

[mac]

No matter which side you support, the picture of little girls writing messages artillery shells must be at least a little unsettling? That's pretty fucked up.

And it sure as hell isn't clear to me that chopping down the "Cedar Revolution" is either wise or just on Israel's part. Those poor shmucks in Lebanon hadn't been out from under Syrian occupation for much more than a year, and now this.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

"I'm going to go ahead and publish this Hezbollah propaganda. If anyone feels like doing my job for me and actually finding some objective data on the conflict, feel free to let me know".

The guy who runs this site is named "Pierre Kiame," which I'll swear on a pile of St. Maroun icons is a Christian name, but if you have evidence that this site is a Hezbollah wing, by all means let's see it. I looked for something similar from the Israeli side, and as noted, the coffins of the two kids are all I came up with. I'm sure the casualties Hezbollah has been inflicting on Israel are no prettier, and I explained why it's easier to find gory images from one side than it is from the other.

I don't understand why shots of casualties seem to excite foamy responses like Jamie Kelly's wish for my wife and children to be massacred.

[wingnutx]

Dirty little Jew girls.

That makes me think of Sarah Silverman.

I'll be in my bunk.

[AML]

The chemical weapons text is bullshit - I have enough experience in forensics to know that the skin is not burned, merely covered in dust, but I suspect that the photos themselves are accurate enough.

It always disturbs me that photos of the dead are considered "propaganda," in the same vein that it disturbs me that the coffins of our war dead have been flown home in the middle of the night, with photography prohibited.

The excuse is generally made that this is out of respect for the dead, but it seems poor form to me to support or engage in actions that directly cause someone's death, and only then, respect them.

It seems to me that if you support military action, you should be intimately aware of the consequences. People who try to keep these kind of things covered up are those who are afraid that if the consequences are known, a significant portion of the population will lose its taste for violence. It's covering up the true face of war, which is always violent death, that is the real propaganda. Pictures of bloodless bombings through grainy black and white video, labelling the dead as "collateral damage," as if killing were incidental to warfare, that's propaganda.

Mark Twain got it right. It's sad that it's been a hundred years, and the story could have been written yesterday. I'm sure more than a couple of war sermons will be repeated this Sunday.

[AML]

I saw it, you fuck. What, were you in bed reading the Utne Reader on Sept. 11? Dumbshit.

Yeah, Christ Jon, don't you know that 9/11 gave us unlimited license to kill little brown children? 9/11! God damn librul. 9/11!

[Kevin]

Tim's got it right, the site was probably made by catholics...or Israels old allies in lebanon. I guess they have burned that bridge.

AML: I know nothing bout the chemical weapons thing but from what I have heard people say is that Israel used white Phosphorus bombs, I don't know what effect that would have on a human probably not what happened in those pictures but I have heard claims that Israel has used the whie phosphorus bombs.

[Jon H]

"It always disturbs me that photos of the dead are considered "propaganda," in the same vein that it disturbs me that the coffins of our war dead have been flown home in the middle of the night, with photography prohibited."

And when Ted Koppel ran a Nightline show that consisted entirely of a tribute to the dead troops ( I think a list of names, possibly photos), *that* was damned as partisan anti-war propaganda.

[wingnutx]

White Phosphorus will burn the hell out of anything it touches, hair and all. Ever fire a flare? That was white or red phosphorus.

[Oakenshield]

Save your sanctimony, Jamie Kelly.

That rage you're feeling? That disgust? Pretty unfamiliar, isn't it?

See, you THINK you felt it on 9/11. You THINK you saw the face of War when those towers fell.

No sir.

What you saw, sitting in a comfy abode somewhere in Montana was exactly what you were supposed to see. Cleansed, approved, and regurgitated in a very controlled, contrived and systematic mass-media mind fuck. You are allowed to feel rage, but only in a very vague, specific sense.

Somewhere out there, people are dying. Somewhere out there, infants are filled with large caliber munitions. You'll not be allowed to see that, though. You'll not even be allowed to see the coffins of your fallen countrymen, lest it sway your opinion too wildly to one side.

Baa Baa sheep, back in line. Take comfort in knowing you won't be exposed to too much Reality.

See, because until you've actually smelled the burning flesh of those infants, until you watch those coffin-bound countrymen evaporate 25 yards in front of you at the hands of an IED,

You. Don't. Know. Shit.

[Oakenshield]

Save your sanctimony, Jamie Kelly.

That rage you're feeling? That disgust? Pretty unfamiliar, isn't it?

See, you THINK you felt it on 9/11. You THINK you saw the face of War when those towers fell.

No sir.

What you saw, sitting in a comfy abode somewhere in Montana was exactly what you were supposed to see. Cleansed, approved, and regurgitated in a very controlled, contrived and systematic mass-media mind fuck. You are allowed to feel rage, but only in a very vague, specific sense.

Somewhere out there, people are dying. Somewhere out there, infants are filled with large caliber munitions. You'll not be allowed to see that, though. You'll not even be allowed to see the coffins of your fallen countrymen, lest it sway your opinion too wildly to one side.

Baa Baa sheep, back in line. Take comfort in knowing you won't be exposed to too much Reality.

See, because until you've actually smelled the burning flesh of those infants, until you watch those coffin-bound countrymen evaporate 25 yards in front of you at the hands of an IED,

You. Don't. Know. Shit.

[DB]

It's not defending Hezbollah to show pictures of the results of Israeli bombing.

That website did a heck of a lot more than just show some pictures, though. The commentary on those pictures (and the absurdly propagandistic claims therein) place the site firmly in the "pro-Hezbollah" camp.

It is one thing to show pictures of people killed by Israelis (assuming that's what those pictures are). It is quite another to accompany them with invented tales about how Israel is deliberately shelling civilians with chemical weaponry.

[Kevin]

Uh...some of the places they are hitting they know they are going to kill civilians, I would say they are not being too selective with their fire. I mean bombing the christian area of lebanon, pretty dumb and burning bridges. Also I would hardly call it "pro-hezzbolah" to be against a bombing campaign that is looking pretty unselective.

[wingnutx]

Those are the same tales of "white phosphorus gas that burn skin but not hair" that were told about Falluja.

It was BS then and it is BS now.

[Kevin]

Ok so some of the claims are false, but if your neighborhood is being shelled I doubt you are going to investigate whether or not every rumor you hear is true. You'll probably run with the rumor out of fear. You're going to make your appeal based on what you've heard. While it may not be true it really doesn't take anything away from what they are asking for.

[citizengnat]

ok, when did all the crackpots show up? Did I miss a meeting?

take a deep beath and count to ten. all of you.

[Akira MacKenzie]

I saw it, you fuck. What, were you in bed reading the Utne Reader on Sept. 11?

Sigh, every time I hear some warpig from NRO, Free Republic, or LGF use the tired "remember 9-11" line my blood begins to boil at their utter jingoistic stupidity. It's bad enough we lost 3000 people that day, it worse that conservatives use that carnage to excuse the inexcusable, from NSA wire taps on U.S. citizens, to Abu Gharib, to Al-Haditha, and now this.

It's not that we don't remember 9-11, it's that militaristic scum like Jamie Kelly that won't shut up and let us forget it. Some of us think that our society has better things to do than to live in what amounts to an Orwellian "Two Minute Hate" and sending our bloated military into Middle Eastern meat-grinders that will only stir up more anti-American resentment in the Islamic world.

Oh, by the way; have you boys found Bin Ladin in Iraq yet? Maybe he snuck into Iran or Syria while the CIA or the NSA were on a coffee break. 😉

[Akira MacKenzie]

ok, when did all the crackpots show up?

When it comes to H&R, certain comments will attract certain loons like moths to a flame:

Evolution threads draw Creationists.

Immigration threads draw nativists.

Medical threads draw alternative medicine/homepathy/anti-vaccination nuts.

Religion threads draw fundies.

Gun Control threads draw anti-gun wimps.

Abortion threads draw fetus-fetishists.

Gay Rights threads draw homophobes.

Zoning and imminent domain threads draws joe. 😉

Drug legalization threads draws Juanita.

Middle East threads draw warpigs from NRO/Free Rupublic/LGF.

[dhex]

"What, were you in bed reading the Utne Reader on Sept. 11?"

not bad. gets points for wit and economy of language.

who'd you steal it from?

[kwais]

AML,
I keep learning more and more about how cool Mark Twain was.

[Les]

I keep learning more and more about how cool Mark Twain was.

Here's a story I hope is true. The press were waiting for Twain after he met President Roosevelt and he told them he thought Teddy was, "...quite clearly insane."

[kwais]

Jamie Kelley

If it were up to them, they'd make you and your family look exactly the same way, though instead of mourning for you and sharing photos your horrificly mutilated bodies for the world to see, they'd hold up your head and scream to the empty cosmos how great their god is.

There is no real evidence that those killed are the ones that would want to kill Tim C's family.

I mean there are definately those types out there. But I think most of Lebannon is not those types. I know a couple of people that were stuck there on their way here when the Israelis started shelling.

By all accounts before this all started happening. Lebannon was one of the better places in the middle east for an American to be.

I hope Israels shelling has the desired effect of making the Lebaneese reject the Hesbullah, and any that would do voilence to another country from Lebanon. I don't know that it will though.

[Obligatory]

I keep learning more and more about how cool Mark Twain was.

Finally, a rational comment!

[kwais]

what is 'Utne reader'?

I wish I was a better read individual, I would get all these wisecracks.

Also, Juanita is still around? Does anyone ever respond to her? She seems way too trollish to even argue with. like she doesn't really believe what she says, but likes to get a rise out of people.

[kwais]

Finally, a rational comment

Why thanks. It is not everyday that I can make a rational comment.

[Stevo Darkly]

kwais, the last time I looked, The Utne Reader was a very fat, very shiny, very liberal magazine. It can be described as a big glossy left-liberal Reader's Digest, or what National Geographic would look like if it were run by National Public Radio.

[R.S. Porter]

I say, there's little funnier than a group of angry libertarians. I'd add my opinion, but I'm always right so what's the point arguing it.

[Russ R]

kwais,

"I hope Israels shelling has the desired effect of making the Lebaneese reject the Hesbullah,"

To give an a analogy, I'm a Canadian. I really like our southern neighbours in general. Sure I think that many US policies are pretty stupid, but that doesn't make me "Anti-American". I frequently travel to the USA both for business purposes and to visit friends and relatives.

Now, let's say that the terror cell that was been found in Toronto last month had hypothetically been targeting Americans.

And let's say that they hypothetically launched a successful terrorist attack on Buffalo or Niagara Falls, kidnapped a couple of Homeland Security employees, and then retreated to the relative safety of Toronto's suburbs.

Now let's suppose that the US were to take the same approach that Israel has, namely, launching a military attack into Canadian territory to destroy the cell.

And let's imagine that they were to do it in the same heavy-handed fashion, leaving a trail of collateral damage from air strikes against apartment complexes in Mississauga because the terrorists were known to operate from there.

And let's suppose that their intent was to send a clear message to the Canadian population and government that harbouring terrorists can have consequences for all of us, so as to turn public sentiment against any terrorist groups here, well...

I think I'd become pretty damn Anti-American in a real hurry.

Now, can you blame the non-Hezbollah moderates in Lebannon for not being too thrilled with the Israelis right about now? And fore the Lebanese who were already pro-Hezbollah and anti-Israel, how would this action possibly make them want to switch sides?

[kwais]

Russ R,
Your analogy is a little streched, but I am on board with what you are trying to say.

I said "I hope that it has the desired effects" but I don't think it will, I think it will have the opposite effects.

I get that it will have the opposite effect, because it would on me if I were Lebaneese. Also all the emails I have gotten about this so far have been from Christian Arab girls. (Maybe because the moslem ones that I know think, as an American, talking about this with me is a lost cause.)

So it seems, from my little anecdotal perspective, that this is enraging Christians not as naturally hostile to Israel, as much as it is enraging anyone else.

I am also hoping that this doesn't make things harder on us in Iraq. I am thinking that the perception of US involvement in this might be much worse than when Abu Ghraib came to light.

Anyway short story is that I get what you are saying even though your analogy was streched.

[alex]

To give an a analogy,

Another in the series entitled: "If my aunt had balls, she's be my uncle!"

Your analogy fails because its premise (that Canada would permit a terror cell to launch attacks on the US from within its borders) is unfathomable.

Tim's posts are usually insightful but this isn't one of them. We have no evidence those shots are recent, or of Lebanese at all, and there's plenty of crap like that to go around. Who needs visual reminders that "war kills" anyway?

& aren't the Phalangists closer with both Syria and Hezbollah of late?

[JK]

"Whether you're for, against, or undecided, no coverage of a war should be taken seriously unless it includes images of horrible violence."

Fair enough. But on the other side this shouldn't be adding anything for most people. In the end one mangled dead body is much like another. It doesn't tell us much new about this war to see more of them.

If anyone was shocked by pictures of casualties or wants to write outraged comments they should realise that their previous attitudes to war were not worth very much.

I understand that Tim Cavanaugh has a strong personal connection to current events. If he wants to write blog posts against childish people who take a position on war without even knowing what a war is then he can.

But please can we also have journalism that treats us as adults who know what a war is, that tries its best to explain and understand what is happening as objectively as possible. That would be infinitely more valuable.

[Jason Ligon]

This is material no different than the right to life approach of showing graphic images of fetuses. It may be a part of the story, but absent context it is just displayed in the hopes of making revulsion the deciding factor in a complicated issue. It isn't smart then and it isn't now.

[johnl]

Lebanon is falling a little too easily into the role of professional human shields. So have you read what Siniora has been saying? Do you think his appetite for war has anything to do with the human cost of the conflict?

[SR]

Jamie Kelly is probably long gone, but I will point out the irony that he announces that "If it were up to them, they'd make you and your family look exactly the same way," apparently completely ignorant of the fact that Tim's family is in Lebanon right now and presumably have been left completely unmolested by Hezbollah.

[NYOPTS]

Arab media are more comfortable with depicting bloody mayhem?even in local, non-political, police-blotter-type news?than are western media

Arab media is known for its even tone? or is 'even tone' a tool of the zionists?

War porn is propaganda. We expect better of you , Tim!

[Larry Anderson]

RussR,

I tend to agree that your analogy is a bit stretched. I, and I hope nearly ALL citizens of the U.S. would have full faith in the ability of the Canadian authorities to root out, and bring to justice the aforementioned terrorist cell. Unfortunatly for Lebannon, they were and are in no position to remove the cancer that plauges both them, and Israel. I think what is happeneing there is a horrific tragedy. But it was not one of Israeli design.

[Clean Hands]

Tim, I'd've been more impressed if you'd sourced your "war porn," as NYOPTS correctly identifies it, a little more carefully.

Surely you know photojournalists operating in Lebanon who could provide this material absent the over-the-top anti-Israeli rhetoric?

I'm sorry to say that I, too, am taken aback at your judgement in linking to this particular site.

[henry]

The site is down.

The Jews are at work again, I fear.

(Sorry, I refuse to give any hints at the irony/sarcasm quotient of this posting).

[Another JohnL]

Russ R: In your hypothetical you omitted where the terrorist cell is spread throughout Toronto's suburbs, using family homes and apartment buildings full of innocents as shields and furthermore that the cell is indiscriminately lobbing thousands of barrage rockets at Buffalo, Batavia, and Rochester.

[joe]

Russ R's anology is also missing this:

Instead of limiting its targetting to the terror group, or even the Toronto suburbs, America also targets areas around Ottawa whose residents are strongly opposed to the terror grouop, as well as Canadian military installations in Labrador.

[Kevin]

Another Johnl...

By that same hand his analogy also missed the part where the US bombed the hell out of pro-us area in say Ontario. Which is what Israel has done by bombing indiscriminately and bombing the christian areas. Overall Israel F'ed up, lets face it. They alienated a former ally in the lebanese christians by bombing then, and they know that hezbollah is not in those christian areas...they f'ed up.

[Jon H]

And anyway, Russ R's analogy is fatally flawed because it's America who kidnaps Canadians and sends them away to be tortured.

T

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Stevo, National Geo already has the editorial slant of NPR. We still subscribe. Guess that makes me a commie sympathizer.

[Clean Hands]

More like National Geographic with the editorial slant of Air America.

[huh]

"Surely anybody who is going to support a military action anywhere in the world ought to be able to look at the results of that action (hell, ought to be forced to look at the results)."

Ya know, Bucko, Just because I support Medicare and Medicade doesn't mean I should be forced to see the graphic details of Mrs. Goldstein's gall bladder surgury.

It's pretty clear Timmy C. has a bias on this issue and as such, should recuse himself from the debate.

I also think he's a piece of shit.

[Eric the .5b]

"Middle East threads draw warpigs from NRO/Free Rupublic/LGF."

They also apparently now draw guys who talk about "dirty little jew girls".

[Another JohnL]

Let's see - the IDF dropped (and continues to drop) leaflets - sometimes days in advance - to warn the civilian populace in the targeted neighborhoods.

I guess I missed where Hizb'allah distributed leaflets in Haifa and Nazareth before the rocket barrage.

Sovereignty isn't something conveyed by a piece of paper. It requires action by the state expecting to benefit from it. Lebanon surrendered part of its sovereignty by allowing a bloodthirsty militia to operate with impunity from within its territory against a neighboring state. A militia that, incidentally, has seats in Lebanon's parliament.

I agree that at this point in the war, it looks like Israel is needlessly radicalizing its natural allies (the liberal Christians and Druze Arabs) in Lebanon). I expect that when all is done and Hizb'allah is neutralized, many who are upset now will be thankful that someone did the dirty work. (Think - how many Germans cursed the strategic bombers of the allies in WWII while the bombs were falling, but 10 or 20 years later were thankful for the outcome - at least in the western zones).

Do you seriously think the US would act with any more restraint than Israel if a radical and violent militia affiliated with, say, the Parti Quebecois launched a few thousand rockets from Toronto into New York? More importantly - would you really want it to act with more restraint?

[Kikesmack]

"I guess I missed where Hizb'allah distributed leaflets in Haifa and Nazareth before the rocket barrage."

Brown people never do. Savages.

[mediageek]

Shweet shivering Shiva, where has it been printed or stated ever that Reason or Hit 'n' Run or Tim Cavenaugh were striving to be "unbiased"?

As if there could be such a thing in the first goddamned place!

Tim's bias is patently, crystally clear, and yet a bunch of you accuse him of attempting to be biased.

Well duh, bitches!

[RogerZ]

Without comment on the source or veracity of this propaganda:

Yes. War is hell. Innocents will die, and some will die horrible deaths. It is not unreasonable, when weighing the decision to go to war, to take into account this fact, and perhaps even to show photographs of what real dead bodies look like.

However, these photographs do not amount to any sort of rational argument against going to war. Indeed, photographs-as-argument reduces exactly to the pacifist case against war, and that argument is so easily puncturable as not to be worthy of discussion (brief sinopsis: "the bad guys will send the pacifists to the ovens first".)

The decision to go to war (and to accept the inevitable civilian casualties) must be based on a simple calculation that should be familiar to all Reasonoids who are willing to call themselves libertarians: Who started it? Who was the aggressor? Who violated whose rights?

Once you answer these questions honestly, then the use of the absolute minimal force necessary so as to completely anhialate the aggressor, as a righteous act of self-defense, follows logically. It is the aggressor who is responsible for the war and therefore the aggressor who is responsible for the civilian deaths. The faster the aggressor can be eliminated, the sooner the horror will be over and the civilians be spared.

[T1]

O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle -- be Thou near them! With them -- in spirit -- we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.

[MUTT]

Its funny....well, not so- how chickenhawks skwawk & fuss when pictures of what they extoll while avoiding get published. Yup, looks like war to me.
Should have a Smell-O-Vision component to it, tho.

Theres a shitload of hapless bystanders on both sides of this, a dash- a small dash- of instigators in the smoke and death, a few battalions of pawns...........and armies of chickenhawks, far, far removed, cheering it on.
The Army is accepting enlistees up to, what? 42?
What gutless trash. mutt

[Malvolio]

War is evil, but it is often the lesser evil.
-- George Orwell

[SY]

"I have heard claims that Israel has used the whie phosphorus bombs."

I've also heard claims that Jews drain blood out of babies to make matzo.

[MUTT]

white phosporus is serious, nasty stuff. Its used for marking targets: lotsa white smoke, cant put it out.
Nasty as it is, its standard issue stuff, used by all armies, around the world, and as such its just one of those things. Its not a "crime", its not proscribed.
So folks shouldnt get led down that path.....

[DB]

The guy who runs this site is named "Pierre Kiame," which I'll swear on a pile of St. Maroun icons is a Christian name

Like Christians can't be pro-Hebollah? And by the way, Tim, Pierre lists his address as being in Beligum. Did you ask him where he got his pictures from? Particularly given that Hezbollah doesn't let unescorted photographers take pictures in its territory?

but if you have evidence that this site is a Hezbollah wing, by all means let's see it.

I realize you're probably Reason's least thoughtful writer, but I'd think even you would be able to tell the difference between "this site publishes Hezbollah propaganda" and "this site is a wing of Hezbollah". Even a cursory web search will show you that the "Israel is deliberately blowing up civilians" and "Israel is using chemical weapons" lies are being pushed by Hezbollah. Pierre is publishing those lies, ergo he is publishing Hezbollah propaganda. Maybe he's publishing it because he, like you, can't be bothered to think about whether a story is true before he shares it with the world, or maybe he's publishing it because he, like his government, is on Hezbollah's side (http://www.unhchr.ch/huridocda/huridoca.nsf/(Symbol)/E.CN.4.RES.2002.8.En?Opendocument). Either way, he's spreading propaganda.

[StupendousMan]

"Brown people never do. Savages."

Yep, because all Jews in Israel are blond haired and blue eyed.