Everything's Gotta Stop When They Have That Cigarette

CFRA News Talk Radio reports:

A 73-year-old man has convinced a Winnipeg judge to increase his jail sentence to allow him to smoke.

Angelo Foti's request came just moments after he was sentenced to 20 months in jail for shooting an intruder in the backyard of his Winnipeg home in May 2000.

Foti was agitated after learning he would be serving his time in a provincial jail where smoking was recently banned under Manitoba legislation.

His defence lawyer requested the sentence to be changed to 24 months, so Foti can smoke in a Federal prison.

Comments

[greg]

I can’t tell what the worst part of this story is; the fact that he was sentenced to jail at age 73, the fact that he was sentenced at all for shooting an intruder, or the fact that he cant smoke in a jail?

[smoking gun]

I was laughing so hard at the smoking part I didn’t even catch that he was sentenced for shooting an intruder… what the hell???

[Sir Real]

I don’t know the particulars of this case, but I can think of few situations where shooting at someone for being in your back-yard is unjustified- their was a recent daily brickbat about a judge shooting at someone in his yard as well…

[Dan Riendeau]

Can you even be sent to jail in the US for shooting an intruder? Of course up here you have to wait for the Mounties to come rescue you, if they have they have the time that is.

[dj of raleigh]

There is a man who knows his pleasures!

[greg]

In the US the law for shooting people on your property goes state to state. That being said, I can’t think of anywhere where it is legal to shoot someone for trespassing in your backyard, unless they were threatening you. The usual rule is you can shoot intruders in your house, but even that varies from state to state. Threshold states, give you the absolute unquestioned right to shoot intruders (Colorado for example), but most states dont have this law either.

[Jennifer]

FARK has another version of the story–he didn’t shoot a generic intruder, he shot a repo man.

I’ve thought that repo men should be given guns and carte blanche to shoot back.

[JimInNoVA]

VA case law has (so far) treated breaking and entering as sufficient threat of physical harm to warrent lethal force. Even tresspassing can qualify, providing that the borders are clearly marked (fencing is better than signs) and the tresspasser does not move to vacate upon being challenged.

[Warren]

I agree with Sir Real, there are many situations where shoot’n someone is unjustified even if he is pissing on your geraniums.
Apparently the jury found the shooting unjustified too. But maybe they bought into the ‘he needed killing’ defense cause they only gave him 20 mo. for it. Pretty lenient sentence for pumping lead into a guy, must have just winged em. Or maybe they figured, for a 73-year-old smoker it’s a life sentence.

[Russ D]

Why should repo men given given rights others don’t? Just because they took bad credit risks?

I think it’s funny that the government feels it’s OK to suck off the public teat for 4 more months.

[Jimmy Antley]

I don’t think even a repo man has a right to trespass to take back a vehicle, though. That’s why they usually try to hook up the car quickly in a temp. fashion to get it out to the road and off the property.

As far as the smoking thing, what’s 4 months when you’re 73 – it’s like 4 days in kid time. I think the stress of not smoking for almost 2 years might have killed the guy, so he made a good choice. Plus, it’s also a nice feeling to stick it to the judge …

[Ruthless]

In an anarchic world this might never have happened:
With no taxes to pay, the geezer could have kept up his payments??

[method]

Now THAT is a great song reference!

Smoke, smoke, smoke that cigarette…

Just as long as it doesn’t interfere with your smoochin’ party….

[Russ]

Canada’s laws make a distinction between “Use of Force” and “Use of Deadly Force”.

Deadly force is defined as force that is likely to result in death or greivous bodily harm.

You as a citizen are allowed to use force to protect property (against theft or trespass), but you may only use deadly force to defend against threats to your person.

So, in practical terms, if someone invades your home in Canada you can pull a gun on him, but you can’t shoot him unless he attacks you.

However, if you make sure he doesn’t live to tell his side of the story, nobody need know about the specific details of the encounter.

[Ruthless]

“However, if you make sure he doesn’t live to tell his side of the story, nobody need know about the specific details of the encounter.”

Russ, your Canadian friends may disown you for thinking too much like a south-of-your-border hillbilly.

[Jennifer]

The way I view repo men is this: if I sell you my car and you don’t pay for it (after I’ve already sent you however many warnings) then you are a car thief. Since I am a small skinny woman, I have to hire a repo man to get my property back; if you shoot the guy then you are not only a thief but an attempted murderer.

Actually, considering how many times folks on this posting have accused me of either Communism or Fascism every time I make a comment like “Not all regulations or taxes are bad,” I figured people would be glad to see me sticking up for property rights for a change!

[thoreau]

Jennifer-

But, the repo man is unpopular…

[Russ]

I’m planning on leaving Canada long before they have any opportunity to disown me.

I recently had the pleasure of complining my 2003 tax return. It gave me over 15,000 more reasons to leave the country.

Not that the US is looking all that favourable right now either.

[Mo]

Jennifer-
How do I know it’s a repo man or just some dude stealing my car?

Russ-
So that’s only 10,000 American reasons to come down here. [Triumph]I keeeed! I keeed![/Triumph]

[BlarneyBob]

It was my understanding that cigarettes were illegal in Canada. No, wait— that’s California, Oregon, and New York City! So, you Libertarian wordsmiths, a question: does it seem Canada is more libertarian that the US? After all, pot is legal there!

No smoker lives to be 73, do they? Using the Loony conversion, that’s only 53 in US years.

Poor old fart should’ve save the last bullet for himself. Turkey’s got NOTHING on an Ottowa prison.

[Heather]

“I think it’s funny that the government feels it’s OK to suck off the public teat for 4 more months.”

“Poor old fart should’ve save the last bullet for himself. Turkey’s got NOTHING on an Ottowa prison.”

So which is it? Is Canadian prison a hellish cesspool? Or is it so fun that prisoners should pay for imprisonment cuz they’re just sucking off the public teat?

[Jesse Walker]

Thanks, Method. Glad someone got the reference.

[Ruthless]

Jennifer,
You are always “presenting yourself” for a tutorial in anarchy. Praise goddess! (just how skinny are you? don’t answer.)

Repo men are like McDonald’s response in another thread.

In an anarchic world, you wouldn’t be hiring a repo man to enforce a contract. You’d be hiring Guido the Kneecapper. The flippin’ collateral is beside the point.

Repo men were the banking industry’s Wimpy response to the issue facing the Hamburgler.

[Jimmy Antley]

“I figured people would be glad to see me sticking up for property rights for a change!”

Well that’s a good start, Jennifer, but you still have to believe in the rule of law – one of the few real purposes of gov’t. So, the bank that the repo man works for should go to court like the car “owner” would have to if he was the one violating the contract. Instead, they want to save money on lawyers (to help pay for all the marble, oak wood, and brass stuff in the lobbies) and they hire the repo man to illegally trespass. However, lots of times, the car is on a public road, so it’s just plain gone when the “owner” wakes up next morning.

The guy did the right thing by shooting first and asking questions later. Questions such as:

* Can I smoke in this prison, Judge, ole buddy, ole pal?

and time to think of such things as:

* There ain’t no good in an evil-hearted woman.

* I ain’t cut out to be no Jesse James.

* You don’t go writin hot checks down in Mississippi.

* and there aint no good chain gang.

[I like to eat grits.]

He can’t just go shooting people. In most jurisdictions in the U.S., including my home jurisdiction of Texas, deadly force cannot be used to protect property, and there is a duty to retreat before using deadly force to protect from possible death.

Of course, you don’t have to wait for the police to come and save you. And can’t a man get to smoke in prison? Even POWs are supposed to get to smoke.

[Breaker Morant]

Will I still get my last smoke before you shoot me?

[david]

I’d rather SERVE MORE TIME than switch!

The maker of his brand of smokes should jump on this guy and market the hell outta his “story.”

[Jennifer]

Jimmy Antley–

Ordinarily I’d agree that the car owner should just go to court, but I disagree in these cases–the value of a car is time-sensitive; in most cases, the older the car gets the less it’s worth, and by the time the court battles finished the car would be a lemon. Also (and this may just be my class-consciousness here) the type of person irresponsible enough to ignore car payments to the point of facing repossession, is not likely to be too terrified by the majesty to Civil Court.

Ruthless-
5’3″ and 105 pounds. But my boyfriend is 6’3″ with intimidating proportions. In real life, I’d just get him to reclaim my car.

[Jimmy Antley]

OK, but if he comes home with some buckshot in his ass, don’t say I didn’t tell you so.

[Jimmy Antley]

“G__Damn, G__Damn the repo man!”

Is it Steppenwolf, Jesse?

[Isaac Bartram]

Pretty sketchy story.

Did he *shoot* the guy or just *shoot at* him? Seems like a pretty light sentence but maybe the judge took the old boys age into account.

[thoreau]

Jimmy-

OK, so Jennifer should go to court and get a warrant or writ or whatever for the cops to get the car rather than a repo man. Well, what about cases where the person who didn’t make payment doesn’t contest the lien-holder’s claim? In that case, why not send a repo man and save the taxpayers a little bit of money? Sure, it’s not much money for a judge to handle an uncontested case, but why involve him at all?

Isn’t it better to wait until one party to a contract actually contests the other party’s actions? Let the repo man take the car. If the guy who failed to make payment doesn’t contest it, that can be taken as an admission of non-payment. On the other hand, if the guy in default says “Wait, I paid that bill, but he took the car anyway”, then a court can get involved to sort it out.

[dj of raleigh]

> I don’t think even a repo man has a right to trespass to take back a vehicle, though.

[I like to eat grits.]

A repo man is kind of like a bounty hunter, but with more rules. Bounty hunters are allowed and largely unregulated in my state. Like bail bondsmen they are a privitized part of the legal system that makes it work. There is talk of regulating bounty hunters some more because of abuses they have taken with peoples’ liberties that no state actor would dream of doing and getting away with.

[cdunlea]

Around here, it is illegal for repo men to go onto someone’s property to seize their collateral–unless they do in fact register the attempt with the local police beforehand. As agents of the lienholder exercising its right to return of the collateral by force–which you agreed to up front, when you signed the note for the car loan–if they follow the procedure the police can and will assist them if you try talking to them with your baseball bat.

And BTW, as a lender, believe me when I say that if repo men did not exist, fewer than 10% of you would be eligible for auto loans, because no lender would loan out on a mobile asset they had no reasonable way to recover if you stopped paying the loan. Without the fear factor of the tow truck showing up, car lending would die out, and the free market would take another hit.

[Jesse Walker]

“G__Damn, G__Damn the repo man!”

Is it Steppenwolf, Jesse?

It’s from “Smoke, Smoke, Smoke That Cigarette,” which has been sung by everyone from Tex Williams to Commander Cody. But I like your Steppenwolf-meets-Harry Dean Stanton idea too.

[joe]

Jimmy, the Steppenwolf song is “Pusher Man.”

Which goes out of its way to distinguish the evil “Pusher” from the saintly “Dealer.”

[Douglas Fletcher]

I have a vision of the future.

Jennifer moves to Canada. She is unable to find a position as a teacher at first, so she takes a job as a repo man. In the course of her employment she is assigned to repo the car of our poster Russ, who is in fact a deadbeat, and is planning to flee the country and take the car to the USA within the week. In trying to hook up the car to her towtruck, Jennifer accidentally makes some noise which alerts Russ, who comes out of the house yelling and shooting. Jennifer, armed to the teeth, responds in kind. Sadly, both are excellent shots, and both are killed in the melee.

Moral: there’s no place like home.

[Jean Bart]

Jimmy Antley,

Actually you’ll find that most national laws, in the American case the UCC, as well as some other commercial laws dealing with more specialized matters, allow and even encourage this sort of “self-help,” so long as it does not disturb the peace. Therefore your argument that the car dealer is acting outside the law is bogus and uninformed.

[Douglas Fletcher]

“You know the dealer,the dealer is a man
with a lot of grass in his hand
Ah but the pusher is a monster
good god he’s not a natural man
The dealer,for a nickel lord
he’ll sell you lots of sweet dreams
Ah but the pusher’ll ruin your body
lord he’ll leave… he’ll leave your mind to scream”

It appears he’s making a distinction between someone selling marijuana and someone who sells heroin. Apparently Hoyt Axton thought there was a difference — I’m not quite old enough to know, but maybe there was at one time.

[Jennifer]

Don’t know if anyone is still reading this post, but I just got an EXTREMELY irate e-mail (containing well over a dozen properly spelled words) telling me that the guy did NOT shoot a repo man, but a criminally-minded cokehead. Apparently the story on Fark.com referred to someone else. My apologies.

[concerned canadian]

A few comment regarding the old guy who wants to smoke
first of he was not attacked buy repo guys but by convicted criminals attempting to extort money from him threatened to kill his family and attempeting to steal property.they were high on crack and known drug addicts.proven liars in court and after there initial arrest and charge by city police the crown attorny dropped those charges so they would testifiey against him.upon there release the commited over 42 armed robberiers weapons charges wear disquise and evenm when proved in court that they wear lieng we still managed to convict one of our respected buisiness owners who has never commited a crime or been ARESSTED OR CAUSED ANY TROUBLE IN HIS LIFE .the one time he tries to defend himself and his family and his property from a couple of thugs we toss him in jail believe the crooks whom we release back into our community and soon after there release they commit over 30 armed robberiers and are presently awaiting trial.yet we still toss the old guy in jail and when he askes to at least go to as smoking jail we jump ALL over it Leave the old guy be he did nothing wrong but stop two hoods crack users convicted criminals from extorting money from him..he does not owe them money he did not even know them
they were not repo guys but intruders and convicted criminals

[Winnipeger]

I’m a concerned Winnipeger. Concerned Canadian… do you know Mr. Fiola???? Are you his neighbour???? Obviously not!!! He may not have a criminal record, but this is not the first “incident” he has been involved in (although I’m sure you are a family member or friend so I’m sure you know this already!!!) All the other stuff about criminal records and coke is irrelevant. It is simply nothing more than legal posturing.

That having been said, this whole thing is painful for everyone. Both families have been hurt and although having a loved one go to jail must be hard for his family, we must be greatful that a true tradgedy (death) has been narrowly avoided. He may have been a drug user, but EVERY life is important.

Also, had Mr. Fiola killed him protecting his life or someone elses, that’s one thing. But to protect a SNOWMOBILE? Come off it. What about if he had accidently shot a neighbour in the process? There’s a lot of what if’s here and it all boils down to an irresponsible reaction by Mr. Fiola that is a danger to others.

We cannot bury our heads in the sand and twist the story to favor the “poor old man” and villify a victom.

Although this is the same city who has not put a cop in jail who killed a girl while driving a motor cycle drunk. (The spin on her that she was a drunk slut trying to score with a married guy, so we shouldn’t pity her)

[Winnipeger]

Apologies to Mr. Fiola. Should read Foti.

[Jimmy Antley]

Jean, I am indeed correct, that it is illegal for a repo man to trespass, and sign or no sign, DJ. (I don’t need to put signs on all doors of my house warning “no trespassing”, do I?). You may want to supersize your googling abilities, or however you figure stuff out.

And to the man from Winnepeg, I figure stealing a snowmobile, (or SkeeDoo, eh) up in the Great White North, would be the equivalent of theft one’s Harley, classic Mustang, or even girlfriend down here – good enough reason to shoot.

Thanks, Joe (and Jesse). I was trying to recall whether the “pusher man” song was Steppenwolf.

[Old Buggar]

“…sign or no sign, DJ. (I don’t need to put signs on all doors of my house warning “no trespassing”,..”

Jimmy

Not on your *house* (your dwelling is “sacred” just about everywhere), but on your *land* you do. In most of the “English” world Australia, Canada, Great Britain, NZ and most US states (which are “english” [legally] {those that are not are either “french” [how awful] or “spanish”, and those cultures share a similar attitude to dwellings} whether you like it or not) one is required to post one’s property and notify local law enforcement officials. That way the constable, patrolman, trooper, marshal or deputy knows to question strangers he/she sees on your land and detain them if they are unable to explain their presence there. Otherwise he/she leaves them alone.

That being said, it appears that the UK has essentially prohibited self defence and her dominions are following suit. It is only the rebellious colonials who refuse to follow.

Forgive the *___*, I have not figured out how to italisize.

[Concerned canadian]

Perhaps in a perfect world such as the one you.ve tried to create this sort of thing does not happen it is unfotunate that it is not the case here.this property was completly fenced,as per the contract between angelo jr and the stiens was displayed dureing the trial it was spelled out in black and white that there was never a late payment and that the next payment was not due for 30 days , as well this contract was signed by both angelo foti jr and the stien brother who sold him the snowmobile.these 2 individuals simply said went out drinking and doing crack needing money for more booze and drugs they chose to invade foti’s home a month before the next payment was due and try extorting the money
it was the may long weekend and while in a drug induced state went to foti’s home threatening bodily harm to a 73 y.o. man and his wife.
also do you not think that it was unusual that in mid may in winnipeg that these 2 individuals showed up wearing pajamas and testified that they in fact were wearing pajama bottoms and no shirts .when asked if thats what they wore to the bar as well they ansered yes.
also when asked if they phoned angelo foti sr prior to coming over they said yes when asked if they threatened angelo foti sr on the phone they said YES.Also if there intention was to repo the sled how were they going to do that drive it down the conrete road as there was no snow left
and they testified they had no trailer, pickup truck ect. they showed up in a compact car
also they testified that a week prior to this event that they attended the foti home and recieved thier payment for the month from angelo jr..Again payments were not late or even due for that matter when this event took place.the property was completly fenced they threatened angelo foti sr had no possibly way to move the sled were drunk and high on drugs wearing pajama bottoms
screaming and yelling at the 73 y.o. angelo foti,
threatening him and his family.tried to enter angelo foti’s home without permission and if alls they wanted to do was recieve money or repo the sled they would of simply just had to ring the front doorbell and talk to angelo foti , although it was not his responsibility he did not purchase a snowmobile they should of made arrangements with angelo foti jr for if that were the case angelo foti sr is fairly well off and would simply have given them the money to avoid any confrontation but again that did not happen.firstly they called angelo foti sr and threatened his life,secondly they did not ring the doorbell but just appeared in angelo’s back yard,through a locked gate screaming and yelling incoherantly wearing pajama bottom’s.Angelo foti sr was awoken to the sound of yelling and snowmobile backfiring as they tried to hot wire it and it kept stalling.
What angelo saw were 2 uninvited intruders threatening his family obviously high on drugs
half dressed who prior to this event had threatened his life on the phone, and then show
up in his back yard . I had never met either of these guy’s prior to this i had no idea who they were or what they wanted, why they were in angelo’s back yard ,if they had weapons on them or not but i new they were high on drugs from there actions and that they were not there to talk but to extort money to continue there crack binge.With the threat of violence “confirmed by the stiens at trial” and harm coming to his family the sound of the sled backfireing witch was “confirmed by the 2 stiens” the assault to angelo’s foti’s wife pushing her in her own back yard she is 69 y.o.the fact they were strangers to both angelo foti sr his wife and one son the only person who even knew them was the younger angelo foti jr.
And although i was assesing them for weapons before i acted when angelo foti sr awoke to the yelling in his back yard shortly after the threats he recieved from them on the phone the sound of the sled backfiring the pushing of his wife the demenor of the stiens in his back yard
the yelling and threats made by the stiens the fact he did not know them or who they were other than the person who’d called earlier to threaten his life, weather or not they had weapons was virtually impossible for him to tell as this happened in a split second ,angelo foti sr fired his shotgun to scare them away and one brother was hit in the forearm .It did not stop there at that point the other brother started fighting with a reporter that had heard the 911 call the foti’s placed and arrived before police.it still didn’t end as after the attack on the reporter he again jumped the fence and ran through angelo’s nieghbors home and attemped to attack angelo foti jr but was subdeued by 6 police officers screaming threatening and completely in a crack induced state as stated by the officers at the trial.It took 18 min. for police to respond. all this information can be varified through court transcipts of the trial.Further more after the crown dropped charges against the stiens in exchange for their testimony they were again proweling in the foti backyard several days later and happened to lose thier bail papers originals with their signatures on them witch were found and turned over to police again the crown refused to charge them and they wear again released .Yet again during their release the so called injured stien who claimed to have lost the use of his arm was arrested on 42 counts of armed robbery using a weapon wear disquise ect. and its quite apparent on the camera footage witch the judge allowed the court to see of the robberies that Jay Stien has full use of his arm as seen holding up 23 convienance stores and scooping ciggaretes into his duffel bag while a young girl cowars to his weapon.Not once but 23 times He managed to creat 23 new victims because of the crowns bad decision to believe the bad guys in this case.Had the original charge witch the winnipeg police laid of extortion against the brothers not been droped so the crown could prosecute the gun we would not have all these new victums at the hands of the stiens.It is hard to concieve that
Angelo Foti Sr. 73 y.o. never been involved in
any criminal activity never been arrested prior to this event never late on a payment always a pillar of respect in the community could be convicted on the word of these 2 criminals.Angelo Foti sr. prior to this has never been the subject of any investigation ,previously charged of any offence ,never been arrested prior to this
or ever been the subject of any wrong doing.there is not one person who knows him that could speak baddly about him.He has been an outstanding citizen of this community an employer of 100’s of local residence over the years a generous sponser of the local university member of the holy rosery catholic church sponser of several of winnipegs feed the hungry social programs active volunteer of church programs including
camps for kids .father of 4 children all whom have become successful members of thier communities including a head couch at a university in the u.s.a. a top financial executive in the canadian lending industry,
senior project manager for local contruction company and a constuction supervisor.Yet all this was put aside and ignored because a gun was involved and this is canada were it is iligal to defend yourself.This country is no longer the canada we loved it is now a haven for crimials with politician wanting to legalize drugs, allow gay marriges short prison terms for extremly violent offences corruption in government lack of accountability by gov. officials, a decline in medical services ,vidio gambling terminals in every bar and restauraunt,money grabing casino’s
at every end of town,legalization of prostitution
gov takeover of private insurance,extremly high income tax,unbearable property taxes,gov. grown marijauna,11.00 for a pack of smokes 35.00 for a case of beer and an ever increase of gov in every aspect of our lives.banned smoking but they still sell ciggarettes.Intrution into our homes regarding our possesion of guns,not that i mind gun control on hand guns butwe should decide if we want one or not not the gov. they made it illigal to even posses a good air rifle if you dont register it and apply for a weapons permit.
The registration of hunting rifles the gov. thinking criminals will register their guns,at a cost of over a billion dollars and not one criminal has REGISTERED HIS GUN YET .
The lack of funding to our armed forces that directly puts canadian lives at riskas well as the lives who have come to depend on us for safty and security The disrespt shown americans that i never thought i’d witness by comments made by our politician’s regarding the fight on terror.
The absolute lack of backbone shown by our gov
in the fight against terrorists and iraq .The fear of the gov that we as canadians should not have control of our lives but that laws should be imposed to oppress us into being a docile people who do not stand up for ourselves.That
criminals have more rights than the citizens and that we should hide and call the police and let them do as they please because in 18 long min they’ll show up and clean up the mess and if they kill you dont worry we’ll charge them and they’ll serve a couple of months then ask for forgiveness and we’ll parole them right back into our community.When is enough enough I say its when we incarcerate our seniors for defending themselves and release the criminals so they can rob and steal and keep creating more victims just as they did here.I’m very interested to see how much time Jay recieves for 23 armed robberies ect totaling over 42 charges
I heard a rumor that for his testimony against Angelo Foti sr that his bail will not be opposed
by the crown and for all the victims he’s left behind the crown is only asking for a term of 6 years.And there you have it the nice boy should be back in a few years so he can victimize more citizens and all in the name of canada

[terrible]

Angelo Foti Sr. my old friend,i was @ your trial
and still can’t believe they convicted you.How can that court feel that justice was done.What choice did you have both the Stien Brother’s towered over you at nearly 6 foot tall in thier late 20’s in great physical shape…you my friend barely stand 5 foot and wiegh what 120-130 lbs. and are what 73 years old .Your story held up you told it as it happened you did not lie or exagerate what happened you told the courts what happened as acurately as you remembered it and not one person could contradict what you remembered took place that day as best you could.Your nieghbors who witnessed it came to court to help you .Your family was there from the start and throughout the whole ordeal.people you dont even know like the xgirlfriend of Jason Stien came and testified that Jason her Boyfriend was a big fat liar.His claim that he was drug free came to a quick end when she described the horror he’s placed in her life with his crack cocain addiction and extremm violent behavior and a generally crime involed lifestyle they lived together.that the cocain abuse goes as far back as 1994 and that the both of them would do 3-4 grams a day.what time they had left they spent doing crime to pay for thier very expensive habbit that she did not like her life but was so afraid of Jay Stien she could not leave.That she finally stoped in 2000 shortly after the shooting
and went to a rehab center.That many months later
she was no longer a drug addict,that she no longer allowed Jay Stien near her and that she was petrified of what he would do to her for telling the truth.That she was no longer his girlfriend and that she turned him in for the armed robberies.That she did not know the foti’s
but felt terrible for what Jay had done to them.
She went on to tell the court about Jays temper cocain habbit and several lies he’d told the courts and presented herself with her father at her side.She was another victim of Jay Stien and I can’t imagine the courage it took for her to getup and disclose both her and Jays life in open court,former life that is cause seem to me she’s gotton back on the right track again,New job drug free for over 2 years and back at home with her loving and supporting family and most importantly she said away from Jay.She said the only way she could get away from him was by turning him in and even then she’s had to change and unlist her number.She says she lives in fear
and probably always will because she knows he’s getting out sooner or later.Ole Larson a long time friend and roomate of the stien brothers testifies that there both wild coke heads who would do and have done everything you could imagine to keep the crack rolling as he put it.
That together the three of them ole included have smoked crack sold crack fought for crack robbed for crack extorted for crack and that ever since high school that thats they way it was for the trio.When asked why he’s in court today said cause i read a report in the winnipeg freepress that said Jay never did drugs before in his life and a bunch of other bs.Jay , a couple day’s before claimed in court that he’d never done drugs in his life amongst other things he got caught lieing about.

if there’s enough interest i’ll post the court transcript as i am a very close friend of the family

[Charles Wood]

Some kid buys a snowmobile he can’t afford. He stops making payments on it and hides it at his dad’s place. Then, some poor schmuck goes to work one day. He is told to go and repo a snowmobile and does as such. He gets shot by a cranky old man in a neighbourhood where there are no fences and children are often playing in others yards.

It’s crazy to confuse the issue with questions of property rights and such. This guy shot someone. The correct reaction would be to call the police if he thought he was in the right. But… he didn’t because he knew he wasn’t.

Plus, what kind of person can shoot another human being and not be remourseful? Unless the guy is raping you or threatening to kill or harm you or others.

Believe me, I’m no Churchie, but I do value my own life, and people who think that they get to choose the circumstances where life should be forfit should be removed from society. Especially if it is a luxury item like a snowmobile.

[What !!!!!]

So from what I understand then the law in Canada is if you defend yourself on your own property
from intruders commiting crimes you get to go to jail , the criminals get their charges dropped and can then go commit 42 additional crimes but with a good lawyer you can have him ask the judge to forget 20 months my clients a smoker and 73 years old he’ll require 24 months …if thats ok with you mr crown attorney… no problem here does he need any more?
wow your laws are fu@#*$ up

[Charles Wood]

RE: talking out your ass

I don’t belive in PM’ing. It’s very easy to cut someone down in private. Let us all read what you have to say.

And let me say, how mature of a response. Is there a need for personal insults, name calling, and swearing?

You assume to much about my level of knowledge of the parties or lack thereof.

First I’d like to tell you that I’m not on anyone’s side in this case. I am on the side of society and what’s right. Also, I have this thing called a job. And I can’t imagine a bigger waste of time than sitting in a court room for two people I don’t really care about.

Second. Everyone has a right to their opinion. This is a public board. An area to discuss points of view. Most people aren’t even discussing the specifics of this case anyway, they are using the event as a jumping point to discuss the larger issue of property rights and what constitutes just cause in a shooting. Don’t take it personally. And, if you are trying to get the correct story out there (according to your viewpoint), did you write everyone who supported the shooting to correct them about the fact that the item was a snowmobile, and not a car or other item? I bet you didn’t. Because you’re only interested in bashing people who have a different opinion than you.

And finally,

Number 1… My parents are neighbours. I don’t know what community you are talking about, but he is NOT a pillar of this community. Number 2… I went to the same school as the so called “intruder” (and yes, he was a druggie loser then too!). I do know all parties. And unlike you I’m no biased by a personal relationship. I truly believe that everyone involved in this case should be put away for society’s safety.

Besides that, there is only ONE fact in this case that I care about. He had the opportunity to turn around and go in his house and call the police. He did not. He made a choice. A choice that could have ended a mans life (however pathic that life was). A court decided that he made the wrong choice.

If you want to reply to this, please do, but I want yes or no answers to the following questions so that other people on this board know the facts. Or don’t bother replying.

1. Has Mr Foti ever assaulted anyone else? I’m not talking about being charged for it. We know the answer to that.

2. Have the neighbours ever had to report behaviour about the Foti’s to the police?

You know, I’m a law abiding, tax paying citizen of Winnipeg. I would like all criminals off the streets, but I know that isn’t realistic. I’ll settle for just removing the people who think it’s okay to shoot people is off the streets.

[to spineless]

as a last reply to take what i feel about this situation and put it as if it was mr Angelo Foti’s words or state of mind is as shallow a perspective as i could expect from u.I know who u are and you seem to be confusing the facts and twisting them.Since you did not attend any of the trial you have no basis of understanding the facts in this case.and if u feel i was somewhat harsh with you its only because stupid people have stupid views and like you said you ran from the invaders the police did not find them and you felt afraid and still are afraid today.Also the invaders may have since victimized or even killed other people but somehow you stand proud of your cowardice act of running and hiding.Some of us in todays society do not fear the bad guys but see them for who they are bullies who pick on citizens and institute fear into them like they have with you.Well i will not apoligize for not fearing the bad guy’s.I can only state facts of the trial and MY PIONT OF VIEW NOT ANGELO FOTI’S.I can only say that i support his decision to stop the intruders and stop the criminals and in no way support the fear striken actions that you chose to take.If we do not stand up to them they will only get worse and eventually have installed fear to all of society.If you chose to live in fear hide and call the police you are free to do so and i will respect that but to say that others should follow your example is exactly what the criminals want and then they win.You say well my insurance covered the loss but did the insurance stop you from feeling victimized ? Do you feel safe or do you carry the burden of fear that the criminals who invaded your life installed within you.I have no such fear,i life a completly free and wonderfull life and do not look over my shoulder or run and hide from anyone.I am a reasonalble person who cares about life but respects the working class not the hoods of today’s society.If you feel that i have an aggresive disposition its only towards criminals who seem to think that they can over burden and terrorize or install fear into society.Do not confuse me with a 73 y.o. senior citizen or as a matter of fact place any of my comments of as being the comments of Angelo Foti sr or aditude of Angelo Foti sr.What i am expressing is my outrage that you place the rights of criminals above the rights of property owners and tax paying citizens.I still have not seen you express any outrage for Angelo Foti’s attackers
But instead have made the victim the criminal and excussed the behavior of the aggressor because he got hurt.I have not heard you comment on the fact that the decision you made is very simular to the decision made by the crown and that the true criminals released back into our society have in fact proved thier criminal intentions by the fact that they went on a serial robbery spree and have created 23 more victims.Can you not see the flawed state that you and simular thinking people have created hear.These new victims of the Stiens had to deal with a violent criminal who never should of been released in the first place.It is the fa=ult of yourself and simular thinking people who should stand up in front of these new victims and explain why they where allowed to be free to countinue to terrorize normal citizens .
You did not attend Angelo Foti’s trial so your comments are not valid since you do not know the truth.And i do not believe you will attend the robbery trial and face the Stiens new victims because you are a closet citizen who is too afraid to confront the criminals or Jail them for fear they will attack you on thier release .
I understand that shooting people is not how i would of handled this situation but i certainly would not have ran and hid myself.Stand up and be counted,let the criminals know that we will not tolerate them in our community under any circumstances.That i should not have to live in fear from anybody and certainly not in my own home.I do not have such a liberal atitude towards crime since i work hard for everything i have.I do not have the time or desire to infect my body with drugs or to intimidate people or install fear into citizens in our society.I believe Canada should reinstate the DEATH penalty
and that longer sentences for criminals should be installed.I do not believe that prison or criminals should have access to all the social programs we pay for them to have in prison and that they should be faced with much harsher punnishment and not on rehabilitation but lock them up permanently.That if they are released into our society again if they continue there way of life that they should be incarcerated for such a period that apon there release they no longer have the ability to commit further crimes.such as a very old age.I believe in 2cnd chances but not 4th or 5th or 6th chances as in this case.We are not talking about misbehaving kids these 2 individuals have privious convictions of assault ,traficking drugs ,break and enter, car theft and had the courts handed down proper sentences to them in the first place they never would or should or been capable of further crimes but instead should of been incarcerated for a very long period.again these are my personal feelings and in noway reflect the thoughts or actions of Angelo Foti sr.Simply stated My belief that Angelo Foti sr did properly defend himself are based on the evidence brought forward at his trial.And simply because you choose to run and hide i do not condem your cowardice act.But when you attempt to install this behavior on others i cannot and will not accept your possition.Their are those of us that do not choose to be victimized by criminals.We simply will not stand for it,and perhaps if you had a backbone you’d stand up as well.Had you attended the trial you’d of noticed one thing,that Angelo had numerous friends and family attend and supported him throughout his trial,yet the stiens own parents or siblings or friends never attended becuase they knew the stiens and their criminal intentions.I did not see anyone support them but i did notice 2 of their friends show up and testify againt them without the need to be served but at there own discretion.Again I state that these are my opinions and not those of the foti’s but based on evidence brought up in trial.And although you did not attend the trial you fabricate the circumstances in such a way as to justify the actions of the stiens over the foti’s simply on the issue of the gun.If that is how proper justice is served in this society the flaws that your perspective’s install into our society are simply of a nation of cowards .That we should allow the criminals to do as they please and that our lite sentences are enough to deter them from further crimes…well your way does not work
and this case is a prime example, since the stiens where arrested and released twice since this incident shows exactly how dangerous your thinking is,and thank god no one was killed in either the foti senario or the 23 armed robberies
comminted by jason stien.As a deterant for crimals who feel they can choose and victimize there prey as they feel fit with the knowledge that they have citizens like you to release them back into our society send s a chill down my spine.Your believes extend to the war on terror as well and you probebly feel sorry for the enemy
that killed over 4000 americans in an act of global proportions felt throughout the world.And to position yourself during time of war on the side of the criminal shows just how irrisponsible your thinking is.We should convey a message to all criminals that their actions will not be tolerated in our society and if it takes 1 little old man defending himself against the agressor to send that message to criminals then so be it and damn the badguy or what happens to him.Also if society deems it nessasary to incarcerate him for defendeing himself at least give him the dignity to smoke if he so chooses.On the other hand we should not advocate the release of criminals and the dropping of charges of criminals so they can create more victims as was the case here.There is no excuse for the 2 to have been released from custody when the police found enough evidence to initially charge them with extortion.
So if my views seem harsh when it comes to the stiens its only because my daughter was one of the victims of the stien robberies and aftermath
To this day my 17 y.o. daughter still has nitemares and is afraid to go to work and I have known the foti’s for over 25 years and I have never or HAS MY DAUGHTER EVER BEEN AFRAID OF THEM.So again if it appears that my believes are harsh towards criminals or the stiens in particular i have good reason.Your so called victims have tramatized my little girl and 22 others with your pasifist ways.I wish the foti’s
all the best and will continue to support them .

[reply to the spineless coward]

ok i think its fair to answer your 2 questions

#1 No Mr Angelo Foti Sr has never assaulted anyone ,been suspected of assaulting anyone, been accused of assaulting anyone ,never participated in any assaults whatsoever or violent behavoir
or for that matter ever arrested or accused of that or any other crime or been a suspect of any illigal or questionable behavior.I hope that answers your question as his past conduct is a matter of public record and has been disclosed as fact during his trial .Angelo foti Sr is a 73 y.o. with a spotless past,or perhaps his 2 speeding tickets make him an outlaw.

#2 Mr. Angelo Foti has been a resident of this same address since 1975 and has raised 4 children in his home.Never have the police been called by nieghbors regarding his behavior
in the past .Although with 4 children i will not go as far as to say that as teenagers his kids didnt acted like teenagers , had several parties toss the football and baseball around drive huge 4×4 trucks souped up sports cars girls coming and going late at nite and since the eldest son coached the canadian olympic team as well as the pan-am games the foti house would of been quite busy .
So as to weather or not he had a snoopy nieghbor
who felt this was suspicious behavior that “ought to be reported “it was never brought to his attention so i would have to say no that i dont believe any of his nieghbors ever had to report
to police about there behavior and they certainly would NOT have had HIS behavior reported.So NO is my answer to your 2cnd question

In the end of it all i believe the message to criminals should of been leave our senior’s alone.There have been to many assaults and even deaths commited in this city to our seniors as of late all due to punks like the 2 in angelo foti’s backyard. It could very easily have been
the other way around and we’d have another hurt
or dead senior and what, then you would of been happy or perhaps said the courts would of dealt with them it could of been too late by then because if they kill you your dead and nothing else can fix that.When they decided to threaten Angelo Foti then act on those threats by going to his home then assualt his wife entering a fenced and locked back yard onto private property
to commit acts of crime and violents they are responsible for putting their lives at risk.
and when one of them did get hurt they all of a sudden became the good guy or “victim” as you put it.It is because of people like you that crimals are allowed to countinue victimizing us.
Had the initial charge of extortion been pursued by the crown against the stiens in the same manner they chose to pursue the charges against Angelo Foti , Jay Stien would not of been able to commit those extremly violent crimes he has been arrested for.All due respect when a police officer shoots a suspect does the crown drop the charges against the suspect and charge and pursue the officer.We all know the answer to that
of course not but there are those of us in society that do not wish to become victims either.And by choosing to defend ourselves does not make us the criminals.We did not go to the stiens we did not threten the stiens we did not go commit crimes on the stiens property they went to Angelo Foti’s home high on drugs with criminal intent.The saddest part of it all is god forbid it happens to you because if this is what happens when we defend ouirselves I sure as shit wouldn’t help you or anyone else out for fear if I hurt the bad guy that was attacking you, people like you would lock me up.Quick example I see my nieghbor getting pushed and yelled at in her back yard I jump the fence punch the guy out he dies ,people like you would have me charged for murder,so i best mind my own buisness not help but go inside and phone the police.They take 18 mins to respond my nieghbor, really nice lady, dies .Later police ask me why i didnt help her and its because of crazy people like you who do not live in the real world but some made up fantasy world.I for one do not and will not hide or be afraid of criminals and there is nothing you can say that will justify
turning good people into criminals and letting criminals go free.I am not a cop and do not want to be a cop but i will not cowar to the bad guy.I will not hide in my house and lock the doors and i do not arrest people , know how to arrest people , want to arrest people , that is a job for police and when confronted by the bad guy be it in my backyard or my nieghbors backyard i will defend myself or my nieghbor to my max potential and damn the criminals they get what they deserve
and I quess after i’ve defended myself or my nieghbor you can throw me in jail.But be sure to not take away my right to smoke

[X]

Growing up in Winnipeg I have also been a victim of violence.This is a violent city and as I have been across most of Canada and the u.s.a. I dont ever recall seeing violence of the calibre that
Winnipeg has to offer in any other city I have visited.Throughout high school I have witnessed
numberous assaults,stabbings and other Forms of violence.Crime in Winnipeg starts at a very young age,and drugs are common place from elememtary school on.The purchasing of stolen goods is as easy to get as going to the mall .
If you happen to grow up in the north end of town
and choose not to join a street gang makes you a mark for beatings almost on a daily basis.
Never mind that on my 18th birthday I went to the Diamond club on McPhillips and the Bikers decided to have a shootout in the bar just a few tables away from myself and my friends.This is afterall Winnipeg and you better learn to fight at a very young age or become the victim.My friends and myself learned to fight at a very
early age “the natives taught us to fight by continually jumping on our heads and beating us as kids” so we fought back.Only when we really hurt one of them did they back away and think about attacking the four of us again.It was the way of Winnipeg and I imagine still is.I am now 30 years old and a graduate of the U of M .I now reside in the U.S. I am married and have 3 small children.I decided to leave Winnipeg shortly after school simply because I did not want my future children exposed to the violence or crime that Winnipeg has to offer. To express shock at
a shooting in Winnipeg makes me laugh , as I spent the first 22 years of my life there growing up and know first hand about the crime Winnipeg has to offer.
For the old dude I say good for you, and I’ll bet they don’t hang around your place anymore .
For me I am glad I left that hell hole you call Winnipeg .Since moving here in 1996 I have not witnessed or been a victim of crime.I now call this home and truly feel sorry for all the Winnipegers simply for having to live there
and not knowing any better.

[sounds fun]

So true X I visited Winnipeg a couple years ago
and had the hell beaten out of me and my wallet stolen for looking at a girl at a bar on our way into town.It was only 8 pm when this happened
and the place didn’t look like a dive but still no body even raised a finger to help me.I think a few of them where even laughing at me.Boy I sure wish that old guy would of been around.
Gone home to never return

[The spinless coward?]

What?!? I don’t get it, do you want to fight me in the parking lot or something. 🙂 This is hilarious.

I will not resort to your name calling and other low class behaviour. It’s a chuckle to see someone like you.

And you still don’t seem to realize who I am?!?!Otherwise why would you lie. Because the answer to both questions was Yes. And you know it. And I know it. There’s no point in continuing a conversaton with someone who isn’t intersted in the truth. There’s always an excuse for anti social behaviour isn’t there. You portray him as a mild mannered person, but we all know about his temper and his run ins. And you gotta drop the anti druggie thing, because you can’t honestly tell me that drugs were taboo in the Foti home.

Your thought patterns are muddled and your arguments fallacious.

If you accidently kill someone while defending another, by all means, I would march outside your trial and defend you to the last. But this isn’t what happened.

Turn around, walk in the house, lock the door, call the police, let them take the snowmobile. Don’t confont them. Only a fool would get into an argument/confrontation with a hopped up druggie. His behaviour was angry and reckless and stupid. And his temper and decision making ability a danger to others.

And you are talking to the wrong person. I had a home invasion 6 years ago in SJ (oops, I think you might know who I am now, if you are who I think you are.) Instead of confronting the punks, escalating things and having to kill them or worse kill me, I left my residence, went to a neighbours and phoned the police. They were never caught, but I really don’t give a hoot. I’m alive and I don’t have another human beings blood on my hands. My possessions are insured. Some may think that I would have been justified in taking another’s life, and maybe I would have not gone to jail, but shooting another human being is a LAST RESORT and should be the last thing you think of. Anyone who feels that threatening people with guns is okay should have their head examined.

I hunt and I register my guns and when they are old enough, teach my children safe hunting practices. I smoke, but I don’t smoke in front of others who don’t (even in my own car!!) I drink, but never (not even one beer) before I drive my car or snowmobile. Because I COULDN’T LIVE WITH MYSELF if I injured or harmed someone else physically or psychologically because of my irresponsiblity.

It’s easy to point the finger of blame at others. It’s his/her fault this happened.

Story: A woman pedestrian walks against the light and is hit and killed by a drunk driver. What should happen…

There are 2 types of people in this world, those who say it’s her fault, and those who say it’s his. The truth is IT’S BOTH. Both are bad acts but that doesn’t let the guy off the hook for running her down. People in society need to start taking responsiblity for their actions. Sometimes you are forced to make decisions that you don’t like, but you have to be willing to accept the consequenses for your choices and actions.

That’s why I don’t break the law. I don’t want to go to jail. (It’s eerie how simple that is)

They weren’t shot at out of fear, they were shot out of anger and frustration and thats the BIG DIFFERENCE! Everyone sees this. Open your eyes.

There’s lots of people who make me mad and frustrated too! And man, sometimes, I would love to shoot them. But it’s wrong. And its illegal. And I don’t want to shoot them bad enough to go to jail for it.

Mr Foti’s temper got in the way of that decision.

Anyway, I’m sorry that it’s come to this. You don’t even know how foolish you’re making yourself look.

So goodbye. Post all the hate you want, I won’t be back to read it. (And I don’t think anyone is even reading this string anymore, you’ve scared them all away 🙂 Again, I’m sorry for the pain you are feeling, but you will win over more people with reasonable and rational arguments than the crazy rants and insults you have been posting. When you insult others and call them names, most people assign you zero credibility.

And with gun’s blazing cowboys like you in his corner, it’s no wonder he’s going to jail. It’s funny how you don’t see how your whole demener only serves to worsen the “poor old man self defence” argument.

[we are ?]

yea I know your another one of those that think “That Big Bad Evil Gun” and dont really care about the truth.

[the winnipeg mafia???]

Now your making me laugh out load the winnipeg mafia lol your such a loser

[prejudist]

It’s stuff like that,prejudist against Italian Canadians and stereo typing Italians as if they are all mafia that may have been partly to blame for this.If you knew the Foti’s at all you’d
you know they where a kind generous and hard working family with no drug habits at all or
involved in any type of illigal activity and to say otherwise is just lies.

[is it ?]

Why is it the greater crime oh yes “that big evil Gun” even if i conceded and said ok he commited aggravated assault with a weapon as the jury concluded does that make it a greater crime than extortion and 23 armed robberies with a weapon? if we look at canadian law each armed robbey is worth a maximum of life in prison.So how , all of a sudden does aggravated assault become the greater crime in this case?

[Wow]

Hey, isn’t that Foti guy Italian moffia? And it’s been a while since high school but haven’t two of his kids spent time in lockup as well? The Foti Apples didn’t fall too far I guess. Some hero! A dad involved in family crime his whole life raises kids who are criminals themself and drug users. This whole family should be locked up.

[Canadians are dumb]

This is a long story. Sounds as if the real criminals are going to get off scott free. But the old geezer is responsible for those young men going free.

If the guy hadn’t committed the greater crime of raising a gun, it would be them in jail instead.

Why didn’t he call the police? Is he stupid? Or just senile. I’d have to guess the latter since he’s going to jail longer.