You Know Things Are Desperate When …

According to the Israeli daily Maariv, Israeli police have a bizarre new way of preventing suicide bombings.

The police are going to begin implementing their plan to hang bags of swine fat in buses and other public places, in the hope it will deter suicide bombers from entering them…The suggestion is based on the fact that Islam, like Judaism, regards the pig as an unclean animal. Strict Moslem tradition holds that any Moslem who touches a pig before dying will be denied access to heaven.

What about those observant Jews within proximity of bags, won?t they be offended? Apparently not, because a rabbinical permit has been issued endorsing the measure. Rabbi Eliezer Moshe Fisher of the Jerusalem Rabbinical Court warned:

[I]f the police do not use pig fat in buses, tens of thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jews will arm themselves with spray guns filled with liquid lard, which they will spray on terrorists whenever the need arises.

No doubt the suicide bombers will be able to elicit fatwas, or religious decrees, of their own permitting them to carry out the bombings, despite the presence of the bags.

And on it will go…

Comments

[Jennifer]

Swamp Justice-
A joint Palestinian/Israeli government is the LAST thing Israel wants, because the Palestinians would be a majority.

[jon]

This is a great way to end the stupidity of bus bombings. Anything would be. The bombers' bodies should be doused in pigfat. Their homes should be larded. Their graves should be larded.

Murder is an abomination. It should be treated like one.

[Jennifer]

Of course, the suicide bombers already ignore the parts in the Koran that say "Don't commit suicide" and "don't kill noncombatants," so I don't know how diehard their dedication is to "don't touch pigs."

Can anyone out there think of a solution that is both realistic and moral? I remember a sci-fi show where a race of invaders avoided terrorist attacks by the dictum "Every time you kill one of us, we will kill five hundred of you." It worked, but the whole point was that the invaders were immoral scum.

I must admit, I hate terrorism but if I were a Palestinian who'd been treated like a dog all my life, I can't guarantee that I would be kind and rational toward the people living in the mansion they stole from my grandparents in 1948. At the same time, if I were Israeli I'd hold on to the land as tightly as I could, for self-preservation and fear of another diaspora. How can you decide an argument when BOTH sides have equally valid complaints?

[anon]

Jon:

"Murder is an abomination. It should be treated like one."

Is murder still an abomination if it is committed by dropping bombs from an apache or F-15?

Another point, It is naive to pin the bombers' motives to religion only. After all, the previous generation of bombers were leftists more than Islamists. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine were both founded by Christian Palestinians, not Muslims.

But for the media it is one size fits all.

[jon]

I do see a difference between an Apache or F-15 airstrike and a suicide bombing. Silly me, but it seems that one has a goal of attacking terrorists to stop them and the other has a goal of killing as many non-combatant Israelis as possible.

And the "Palestinians" are treated like dirt because they are acting like dirt. Bombing a bus isn't exactly the kind of behavior I'd like a neighbor to act out. And as soon as the wall is completed, they will be able to govern themselves without worrying about retaliatory strikes from the Israelis, because there won't be much to retaliate against. Unless there will, but that's for next year's whiners.

[anon]

Jon:
"one has a goal of attacking terrorists to stop them and the other has a goal of killing as many non-combatant Israelis as possible"

My bad. I didn't know that smart bombs meant that they only kill terrorists. I guess that explains why palestinian children were never killed by these bombs.

As for the wall. I have no problem with it what so ever, if it was built on Israeli land.

[SM]

"After all, the previous generation of bombers were leftists more than Islamists."

Yeah, but the Israelis are not dealing with the "previous generation" of bombers today anymore than the US is worried about Stalin.

[jon]

Anon (if that is your real name):

Yes! They're really targeting the children of the terrorists who mastermind the crimes and hide in their homes! The Israelis want to kill their children, not the idiots who call for the murder and martyrdom exercises. You've got it all figured out. Thanks for figuring it out for me and all the others.

[joe]

"The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine were both founded by Christian Palestinians, not Muslims" More important than their socio-ethnic backgrounds is their secularist/atheist ideology. They come from Christain communities, but they were not fighting to advance Christianity, or any other religion.

"And the "Palestinians" are treated like dirt because they are acting like dirt." Some Palestinians are acting like dirt. All are being treated like dirt. Shall I start in on the Timothy McVeigh/anti-government gun nuts?

[jon]

I was hasty and painting with a broad brush when I wrote that the Pals were acting like dirt. I only meant to say that their leaders and their followers are acting like dirt.

And their treatment as dirt is not just an Israeli offense. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and many other nations have worked to keep the people of "Palestine" from any control over their destiny. But as for the Israeli treatment, it's deplorable. But any other course of action is suicidal.

[SM]

"The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine"

That's disingenous, Joe. The discussion is clearly about the suicide bombers of today.

[Jennifer]

I can't help but wonder, those of you who criticize the Palestinians so harshly: suppose a powerful bunch of people came to America one day and said, "God said your home belongs to me. Get out!" They take all you own, force you to live in squalid camps in the desert, and treat you and your descendants like subhumans. Can you honestly say you'd remain cool, and abhor the thought of harming those who displaced you?

Again, I am not being pro-terrorist here, I'm just saying that the Palestinians have legitimate gripes.

I still say this is Germany's fault. Since it's too late to take half of Germany and give it to the Holocaust survivors, why not give it to the Palestinians? Even the part ruined by the Communists is a lot nicer than that hellhole in the Middle East. The Palestinians deserve their own state, and the Israelis and Arabs will never be able to get along together in the same country anyway.

[Gene Berkman]

Jennifer is correct that the Palestinians were not responsible for the mass murder of the Jews, the German state was responsible.

As for resettling Jews in Germany, it is already in the German law that any Jew who wants to move to Germany qualifies for automatic citizenship - it is a law of return, parallel to the German law that says anyone of German descent who moves to Germany qualifies for citizenship.

For obvious reasons, few Jews have wanted to take advantage. The memories are too painful. But now many Jews from Russia are moving to Germany and settling, and Germany has the fastest growing Jewish population in Europe.

Paul Craig Roberts has proposed that America welcome all the Jews from Israel, as the only way to end the conflict in the Middle East. A quarter million Israelis live in Southern California already, and more Israelis move to America every year. Mr Roberts' idea is probably the only likely solution, but implementing it is problematic at best.

[jon]

I don't think the whole Holocaust can be put on the Germans. The Poles did a good job of rounding up their Jews. So did the French. The Soviets killed many Jews, too. Do the Israelis get half of those countries, too?

And as for Jennifer's question about what I'd do if my home was occupied and I was "forced" to live in a tent, et cetera: If I had tried to invade and destroy a neighboring country, lost, and lost again, and lost more land, and then was told a few generations later that I still had to fight for my land without any real assistance from those who were egging me on, I'd like to think that sending my children to blow themselves up in a bus wouldn't be my first, second, third and last plan.

[Jennifer]

Jon--
I certainly don't think you, me or anyone would immediately resort to murder, but after fifty years my patience would be non-existent.

Question: when you were metaphorically talking about invading a foreign country, were you referring to the Palestinians or the Israelis?

[Heather]

"I certainly don't think you, me or anyone would immediately resort to murder, but after fifty years my patience would be non-existent."

The problem I have is that it doens't seem like the Palenstinians really tried any other options. Weren't the Munich Olympics in 1972?

It's one of those situations where both sides has very valid points, both sides are behaving badly, but one side is blowing up buses and restaurants. Sigh. Can't we just toss a coin-- heads you get Israel/Palenstine, tails you get Texas?

Yeah, I'm from California, does it show?

[Jennifer]

Stupid, but at least the Israelis are willing to modify their religion in an attempt to prolong their lives, rather than modify their lives to prolong their religion. That makes them the most sensible people in the whole Middle East.

[BigPhil]

I hung a large bunch of Garlic outside my window last night. I have not have a single visit from ....

Oops, wrong forum.

[dj of raleigh]

Talk about SPAM....

[Eric]

Easy for us to make jokes, when it's not our people getting blown up every other day.

[joe]

SM, the PFLP carried out at least one suicide bombling last year.

Andrew, I'm not claiming that Marxist terrorist groups are more decent and civilized than any other. Just pointing out the fairly obvious fact that there can be more than one type of bad guy, and agreeing with anon's (if that is your real name) observation that the attacks on Israel are not predominantly motivated by religion, but politics. Much to the chagrin of those who find comfort in the idea that our enemies are motivated by hopes for a metaphysical seventy-threeway.

[Jennifer]

Eric-
Honestly, I wasn't trying to be flippant. It's just that here in the year 2004, we have an industrialized nation so driven to desperation that they'll hang bags of swine fat on public transportation in hopes of making things better!

I hope that humanity someday evolves past religion.

Oh, and Israel will never be accepted by their Arab neighbors. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Palestinians were NOT the ones who perpetrated the Nazi holocaust, so why were they the ones who lost their land afterwards? Germany should be split in half, with one half being given to Israel. Then the Palestinians can get their land back.

[BlackJack Pershing]

About time they took a page from my book!

[Mark Fox]

Maybe the lard bags and permits and fatwas will help more people see that the underlying attitudes must change. Somehow Jews and Palestinians will eventually come to realize that they'll be sharing that patch of land until the sun burns out. Unless one side completes exterminates the other...but then new sacrifices will arrive from foreign lands to throw their lives on the pyre of ancestor worship.

[Eric]

Jennifer,
I understand your point. I just think it's sad it's come to this.

[dhex]

"sucide bomber defeated by pig fat"

we really are living in some horrible surrealist novel.

[B.P.]

So, will the false identifying and spraying of erstwhile peaceful muslims with pig fat become a new "root cause of terror"?

I blame the swine lobby.

[Ian]

For some reason, I find myself reminded of the 1857 Sepoy rebellion. And I suspect Arab Muslims don't have the same measure of respect for Israelis as the Indian Muslims had for the British...

[speedwell]

In a country packed with the followers of Judaim and Islam, where are they going to get all the swine?

Hmmm.. Excuse me while I call my broker... "Hello, John? Buy pork bellies. Now. Yeah, that's what I said...."

[joe]

You know who else won't go on the busses? Ordinary Muslims.

Not just collective punishment, collective pre-emption. This is like banning Muslims from busses, except stupider.

[Swamp Justice]

Neither side is going to leave, so the only solution is to create a secular government of both Israelis and Palestinians. Then they can stop killing each other and move on to more pressing arguments like Janet Jackson's boob.

[jon]

The "Palestinians" can make a state of Palestine any time they want to. The majority Palestinian populace in Jordan could overthrow the king there and make a Palestinian state. Or they could declare a Palestinian state in Gaza. Or the West Bank. But it seems they don't want to coexist with Israel, so they don't want a two-state solution. They want one state and they want it to be Palestine.

The status quo will include Israel for quite a long time now. Any arab invasion will probably result in smoking craters replacing Cairo, Amman, Damascus, Teheran, and Bagdad. And then the next hour of the war will involve angry denunciations from Europe and a call to cease hostilities (India will probably take out Pakistan while no one is looking). Israel is here to stay.

[Randy]

Either blow them all up, or resign them to blowing themselves up.

[jon]

The invasion was the 1948 War, in which Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and a few others invaded Israel. In the 1967 War (same combatants), Israel didn't just defend itself, but also won quite a bit of land.

If you want to be discussing the Israeli invasion of "Palestinian" lands (really, it was a British Mandate, not a nation state), please look into all the land sales during the fifty or more years before the creation of Israel. The absentee landlords often sold the land to Zionists even though the tenants had lived there for generations. Why? Because those rich guys in places like Beirut and Cairo didn't need the land and could use the money. Some invasion, huh?

[Jennifer]

Jon-
The Zionists who bought the land are welcome to it. I'm talking about the Palestinians who never sold their land, but had it taken away. I know Iraq, Syria et al invaded, but Christ! Now the Palestinians are not only paying for the sins of Nazi Germany, but the sins of their Arab brethren as well?

Try giving the Palestinians their own state; if they STILL attack Israel then I will gladly retract all I have said and agree that Palestinians are 'untermenschen.' Until then, I still sympathize.