Illinois Still Being Jerks About Gun Carry Permits

The Chicago Tribune reports on so much foot-dragging from the state of Illinois regarding issuing gun-carry permits after the state Supreme Court last year overturned the state's ban on such carrying that aggrieved citizens are suing.

After telling of a military veteran, Michael Thomas, who has his application for a concealed carry license denied for no apparent reason:

The state police review every application and can automatically deny any applicant who does not follow application rules, pay appropriate fees or meet standard background requirements. A provision in the law also allows local police and other officials to object to a person's application after the applicant has passed a fingerprint background check and met the other requirements for a license.

The Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board, a panel with law enforcement backgrounds, considers the objections in private and is not required to explain the reasons behind its decisions except under order from a court, according to the state police's interpretation of the statute.

Officials won't say why Thomas' application was flagged for denial, or by whom. Thomas insists that he has a clean record. A search of Cook County court records turned up no charges. An Air Force spokesman told the Tribune that Thomas was honorably discharged in 2012 and that his military record does not contain any unfavorable information.

Thomas is now one of 194 resident suing over their mysterious permit denials.

The lawsuits, including two backed by the National Rifle Association, claim that applicants were denied due process because they weren't given a reason for the board's decision and have no recourse for challenging its findings. Lawyers involved in the cases say the issue is not whether applicants are qualified for the licenses, but whether the licensing process is too secretive and arbitrary.

The review board's meetings "are not subject to the Open Meetings Act and its records are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act."

So far, the state police have received 79,207 applications and issued 62,258 licenses, according to data provided by the department. The state automatically denied more than 1,620 applicants for failing to follow application rules or meet basic requirements. There have also been more than 2,400 objections lodged by local law enforcement officials and 809 applicants who were denied because objections were sustained by the review board.

More than half of the objections — 1,461 — have come from Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart. An outspoken critic of the concealed carry law, Dart came under fire earlier this year when he said he would object to any applicant who has been arrested even once in the past seven years for domestic violence, gun possession or gang crimes.

Dart said he is confident that his office did not make mistakes and that it only targeted people who records showed should not be allowed to carry guns. Still, he said he expected litigation to follow.

As widely reported, this weekend's 82 shootings proves Chicago (Cook County) has lots of problems with people misusing guns, the type of people likely not much moved by whether or not they have a legal carry permit.

The Supreme Court, alas, continues to avoid the question of how Heller and the newly meaningful Second Amendment impacts restrictions on public carry. Someday they'll have to think about it.

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  • No Tulpa 4U||

    The Supreme Court, alas, continues to avoid the question of how Heller and the newly meaningful Second Amendment impacts restrictions on public carry. Someday they'll have to think about it.

    Not until BO replaces one of the conservative justices.

  • Bo Cara Esq.||

    "a panel with law enforcement backgrounds, considers the objections in private and is not required to explain the reasons behind its decisions except under order from a court, according to the state police's interpretation of the statute."

    That begs for abuse of power so bad it could be arrested for aggressive panhandling.

    Who could support this, as a political matter? Secret commissions of cops with near total power to hand out or deny government licenses, I'm sure those aren't going to be run in a way anything but unfavorable to unconnected and less powerful individuals and groups.

  • No Tulpa 4U||

    You do realize that the board has overruled the permit denials in 2/3 of the cases, right?

    It's not ideal but we're talking about a political solution that moved IL from no-issue to somewhere between may- and shall-issue. I'm surprised they made it as easy to get a permit as they did.

  • dantheserene||

    It's nice that they're getting a few calls right, but the system is so inherently bad that good cannot be counted upon.

  • MOFO.||

    That implies that 2/3rds of the denials were so wrong that a board of illinois politicians had to overturn them.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    By "jerks," do you mean "tyrants?"

  • Ken Shultz||

    "As widely reported, this weekend's 82 shootings proves Chicago (Cook County) has lots of problems with people misusing guns, the type of people likely not much moved by whether or not they have a legal carry permit."

    Forcing people to live in a city with 82 shootings in a weekend--without any legal means to defend themselves--seems like cruel and unusual punishment to me.

  • No Tulpa 4U||

    As far as I know, sharpened sticks are still legal in Chicago.

  • Jerryskids||

    The reason you're hearing so much about all the shootings in Chicago is because it provides proof that we need stronger gun laws. Like the ones in Chicago.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Just think how many shootings there would be if people could buy guns legally?

    Maybe that's what we're supposed to think.

    If I lived in Chicago, I'd buy some really good security windows and doors. But what do you do, in a so-so neighborhood, when you're walking from your car to your house or vice versa?

    I don't know. Hope no one notices you? I guess you carry a cell phone and call the cops if someone comes after you?

    Practice groveling?

  • Invisible Finger||

    Just think how many shootings there would be in Chicago if people could buy dope legally.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    The reason you're hearing so much about all the shootings in Chicago is because it provides proof that we need stronger gun laws. Like the ones in Chicago.

    Cuz moar lawz will enshure teh kriminalz will obey them.

  • mr lizard||

    So I just watched Joan Rivers bounce out on that CNN bitch.... I would throw it in Joan Rivers if she called me from the minors, just on principle.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Yeah, it reminded me of what Carolla said in that Reason interview a couple of weeks ago:

    "There's not a lot of people who disagree with them who are willing to even talk to them anymore because of the ambush nature of what they do now," he says. "There's sort of nothing in it for the person who's being interviewed by Salon.com anymore, because all they're going to do is try to make you look like a bigoted, sexist, xenophobic whatever."

    http://reason.com/blog/2014/06.....the-govern

    He extended that to NPR, and I guess we can put CNN on the list, now, too. He said in the interview that the reason people go on those shows is to promote whatever they're doing (Rivers was promoting a book), but it's hardly worth it anymore if they're just going to lambaste you for whatever they feel like making up.

    When I look around me at popular culture, I'm starting to see some real fatigue with the Progs already. They're burned so far through the list of enemies, that the only people left willing to talk to them are other "friends" on the left. And they're starting to savage their own, too!

    Joan Rivers isn't exactly a conservative icon.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Rivers can't make up her mind.

    Rivers told the Montreal Mirror that she was a Republican.[54] However, on a 2013 episode of Celebrity Wife Swap, Rivers stated that she was a Democrat. Then on January 28, 2014 during a conversation with Reza Farahan she announced that she was in fact a Republican.[55]

    She bounces back between Dems and Repubs. She smokes weed. Maybe she can find a home in the LP.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I think she's apolitical.

    She thinks whatever the last major idiot said means she should identify with the other team.

    I'd guess she doesn't want to be seen as a pro-war, Christian fundamentalist, but she can't believe the stupid shit the left is peddling these days. That probably puts her in the majority.

    Anyway, she's an 80+ year-old comedian. She's just trying to get laughs.

  • No Tulpa 4U||

    Maybe she was just trying to save face?

  • Vulgar Madman||

    Chicago:MASSIVE RESISTANCE!

  • DrAwkward||

    These permits must be stopped. We cannot stand for more of this sort of thing:
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/.....4984.story

  • Warrren||

    Why the denials? Cause we be Il'in!

  • creech||

    You know where this is going: universal background checks and universal denial with no explanation other than FYTW.

  • JW||

    The Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board, a panel with law enforcement backgrounds, considers the objections in private and is not required to explain the reasons behind its decisions

    "Where's that Fuck You, That's Why check box on the objection form? Mmmmmm...ah, there it is."

  • No Tulpa 4U||

    2/3 of permit denials reversed by this board. It's better to have them than to not have them, it would seem.

  • MOFO.||

    That depends on who the 1/3 are that arent getting permits.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    OT: Just got an email from my college that starting this summer, every student and employee will have to complete some mandatory bullshit rape awareness training.

    Fuck you very much assholes.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I'd love to see what that's about!

    They're going to explain to you that you're not supposed to rape people?

    Apparently, you're not supposed to beat women either.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/phot.....2-many-psa

    If Obama hadn't told you, how would you have known?

  • C. Anacreon||

    It would be interesting if they actually started talking about the one thing the feminists keep as hush-hush as possible -- the enormous amount of domestic violence in the lesbian community.

    From this PSA you would think the only people who could ever batter their partners are straight males.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    Air Force has been doing it for years. We also were required to take a class explaining that it was wrong to traffic human persons.

    Your tax dollars at work.

  • ||

    Walk up to a stranger and say "if you saw a child about to fall into a well would you reach out to stop them?" if they so no you may traffic them, if they say yes, you may not.

    Supposing people see a child fall into a well – they all have a nature that is shocked and sympathetic. It is not for the sake of being on good terms with the child’s parents, and it is not for the sake of winning praise for neighbors and friends, nor is it because they dislike the child’s noisy cry.

    Judging by this, without a nature that sympathizes one is not human; without a nature aware of shame, one is not human; without a nature that defers to others, one is not human; and without a nature that approves and condemns, one is not human.

    Mencius saw people whose nature isn't cultivated to have these qualities to be a failed human and basically an animal.

  • AdamJ||

    Be nice if cops had to take a "try not to shoot up, explode, or otherwise maim innocent people and animals, and also try not to rape while on duty" training course.

  • Invisible Finger||

    Bring earbuds.

  • Bubba Jones||

    People who live in cook county obviously suck.

  • Rich||

    Dart said he is confident that his office did not make mistakes and that it only targeted people who records showed should not be allowed to carry guns.

    Indeed, how could it be otherwise?

  • No Tulpa 4U||

    people who records showed should not be allowed to carry guns.

    No doubt political campaign donation history is an important part of those records.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    records are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act.

    Skyewz mee?

  • OldOllie||

    I'm sorry, but it's getting to the point that I can no longer feel sorry for people who choose to live in liberal-run cesspools like IL, CA, NY, MA, etc. There's no wall keeping you in.

  • ||

    Oh shit, did they take down the electric fence around CA!?!?

    I suppose I'll leave behind my home, family, friends, great food, great weather, pleasant neighbors and job that pays enough that I can save and travel and flexible enough hours that I can actually do it, and go start over in Arkansas. I hear Eureka Springs is nice.

  • AdamJ||

    Agree. I did leave IL, but I feel bad for my parents who are still there. They both grew up there, raised their families there, have spent their entire lives there. They do bitch about the corruption, taxes, and idiocy that is Springfield and Chicago, but it's not enough to make them leave (yet). They have a choice though and people or companies that rely on the better opportunities that afforded elsewhere will continue to move out. The question is, do they keep taxing in order to suck more revenue out of those who remain, or do they eventually recognize their folly.

  • C. Anacreon||

    I totally agree with Jesse on this. I grew up in Illinois and moved to California in my 20s. At least in California, you have all the great reasons to live there he points out, and it mitigates the stupidity and over-taxation a bit. And of all people, Jerry Brown has done a decent job the past few years of keeping the tax-and-spend loonies relatively in check (though it does say a lot about CA for me to see him as the sane one.)

    But Illinois has almost the same ridiculous taxes and high prices, along with dreadful muggy summers, icy winters that last for eight months, annoying bugs and mosquitoes around you constantly, and an overload of fat people with burly mustaches (male and female). What's the point of having to put up with the horrible climate and environs if you pay super-high taxes? If you really love that life, you can have most of those things and a better government and tax situation to the north and east in Wisconsin and Indiana.

    There is, though, always two weeks in mid-October when Illinois and Chicago seem like the most beautiful and wonderful places on earth. Then an unexpected early snow, and we'll see you in May.

    People who live in California who come from other places understand what's great about California. We're going to be sure to send our son back east to college just so he gets the point.

  • Invisible Finger||

    The question is, do they keep taxing in order to suck more revenue out of those who remain, or do they eventually recognize their folly.

    If they haven't recognized it by now....

    The worst part about people moving out of liberal cesspools is that they usually are unaware that "liberal cesspool" is the reason they're moving and pretty much vote "liberal cesspool" in their new environs.

    So I don't know what's worse: being in an existing liberal cesspool that's so far gone it's about to collapse, or moving to a nice area that is only going to get worse because of all the carpetbaggers voting for the same shit that ruined their prior location.

  • Swiss Servator, Alles Klar||

    Sure Ollie - my elderly parents can just fend for themselves. "Sod off Mom and Dad, I am outta IL because an internet post said I am not being forced to stay!!!!"

    Somehow I will live without your pity.

  • Jim Walsh||

    The running gag is that in Chicago the only people allowed to carry are cops and mobsters.

  • Adam||

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