Washington Post Interview: Edward Snowden Defends the Constitution Against Clapper, Alexander, Feinstein, Rogers, and Obama

SnowdenObamaDer SpiegelThe Washington Post is running a terrific article in which former NSA contractor Edward Snowden explains why he revealed how far the NSA and other federal agencies had gone toward constructing a national security surveillance state. Short answer: Because it's unconstitutional. The Post interviewed Snowden for 14 hours in Moscow and he comes off much better than the pack of liars who run the NSA or the enablers who "oversee" its activities in Congress or in the Administration.

And by liars, I mean Director of National Intelligence James Clapper who lied to Congress about the NSA's bulk collection of data involving essentially every American's phone calls. By liars, I mean NSA Director Keith Alexander, and Congressional Intelligence Committee chairs Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Mich.) who all claimed that the massive phone surveillance program was crucial to disrupting more than 50 terrorist attacks.

In June, President Obama described the NSA's bulk data collection as a "circumscribed, narrow" program that thwarted at least 50 terror threats. "Lives have been saved," asserted the president.

All lies.

In fact, the new report from President' Obama's handpicked review committee earlier this week flatly said that the NSA's dragnet spying program was "not essential to preventing attacks" and that "there has been no instance in which NSA could say with confidence that the outcome [of a terror investigation] would have been any different" without the program.

From the Post article:

“For me, in terms of personal satisfaction, the mission’s already accomplished,” [Snowden] said. “I already won. As soon as the journalists were able to work, everything that I had been trying to do was validated. Because, remember, I didn’t want to change society. I wanted to give society a chance to determine if it should change itself.”

“All I wanted was for the public to be able to have a say in how they are governed,” he said...

The pack of liars accuses Snowden of breaking his oath to the NSA and calls him a traitor who should be hanged.

“The oath of allegiance is not an oath of secrecy,” he said. “That is an oath to the Constitution. That is the oath that I kept that Keith Alexander and James Clapper did not.”

Correct. The Post further reports:

Snowden is an orderly thinker, with an engineer’s approach to problem-solving. He had come to believe that a dangerous machine of mass surveillance was growing unchecked. Closed-door oversight by Congress and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court was a “graveyard of judgment,” he said, manipulated by the agency it was supposed to keep in check. Classification rules erected walls to prevent public debate.

Toppling those walls would be a spectacular act of transgression against the norms that prevailed inside them. Someone would have to bypass security, extract the secrets, make undetected contact with journalists and provide them with enough proof to tell the stories.

The NSA’s business is “information dominance,” the use of other people’s secrets to shape events. At 29, Snowden upended the agency on its own turf.

“You recognize that you’re going in blind, that there’s no model,” Snowden said, acknowledging that he had no way to know whether the public would share his views....

Six months ago, a reporter asked him by encrypted e-mail why Americans would want the NSA to give up bulk data collection if that would limit a useful intelligence tool.

“I believe the cost of frank public debate about the powers of our government is less than the danger posed by allowing these powers to continue growing in secret,” he replied, calling them “a direct threat to democratic governance.”

In the Moscow interview, Snowden said, “What the government wants is something they never had before,” adding: “They want total awareness. The question is, is that something we should be allowing?”

Snowden likened the NSA’s powers to those used by British authorities in Colonial America, when “general warrants” allowed for anyone to be searched. The FISA court, Snowden said, “is authorizing general warrants for the entire country’s metadata.” ...

The difference with the NSA’s possession of the data, Snowden said, is that government has the power to take away life or freedom.

At the NSA, he said, “there are people in the office who joke about, ‘We put warheads on foreheads.’ Twitter doesn’t put warheads on foreheads.”

It is way the past time for Clapper and Alexander to be fired and tried for lying to Congress and to the American people. Congress should act immediately on legislation to restore Fourth Amendment protections against government agents spying on Americans.

The whole Post article is well worth your attention and outrage.

I'll say it again: Thank you Edward Snowden.

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  • Fist of Etiquette||

    All I wanted was for the public to be able to have a say in how they are governed...

    Who the hell does he think he is?

  • ||

    Obviously a kulak breaker.

  • Miley||

    my best friend's half-sister got paid $13253 a week ago. she is making money on the computer and moved in a $315200 house. All she did was get blessed and apply the information explained on this web page

    WWW.JUMP26.COM

  • HarryUSA||

    Who the F does the NSA think it IS? F the NSA! F Congress! F the President!

  • ||

    John Bolton just stated unequivocally on live TV that the NSA programs are constitutional and there have been zero instances of NSA employees abusing the info they have access to.

  • ||

    Oh, and he added that letting judges have oversight over the NSA is going down the road to doom. His word, not mine.

  • Tonio||

    [Starts doing CPR on the constitution]

  • Andrew S.||

    Unfortunately, it's no good. Been flatlining for too long. Time to call it.

  • Tonio||

    [collapses from exhaustion]

  • Free Society||

    Unfortunately, it's no good. Been flatlining for too long. Time to call it.

    Date of death: December 23rd, in the year of our overlords 1913

  • ||

    In a more perfect world that line would have been greeted with uproarious derisive laughter. Or never uttered at all. Ugh.

  • Restoras||

    It's amazing. Government power trumps all for the TEAM! hacks.

    I have a lot to be thankful for despite a difficult year. I am especially grateful for Edward Snowden this year.

  • ||

    I am especially grateful for Edward Snowden this year.

    Me too. Someone needs to organize an Edward Snowden Day next year.

  • Sevo||

    "Me too. Someone needs to organize an Edward Snowden Day next year."

    +1 Constitution.

  • 2ndClassProle||

    Bolton is right there on list next to King for head on a pike.

  • Aloysious||

    I remember a time when I thought Bolton wasn't that bad a guy.

    I was an idiot.

  • Restoras||

    Yes, me too. On both points.

  • ||

    Isn't it nice when people as diverse as Bolton and Obama can find common ground and work together to accomplish such worthy tasks? This is the true spirit of bipartisanship and brings a tear to my eye.

  • HarryUSA||

    No? Hmmmm. Then tell this writer he needs to rethink his story!

    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/.....interests/

  • ||

    Thank you Bailey. Great article. I am saving this one. I will add that some years back when I started reading Reason it was primarily for your articles. Keep it up.

  • BigT||

    Merry Christmas, George Bailey!

  • Jordan||

    graveyard of judgment

    Excellent. I must remember to use this phrase from now on.

  • Tonio||

    Kind of a take-off on scrap-heap/dustbin of history, but still a good phrase.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Orders for long-lasting U.S. manufactured goods surged in November and a gauge of planned business spending on capital goods recorded its largest increase in nearly a year, pointing to sustained strength in the economy.

    The Commerce Department said on Tuesday durable goods orders jumped 3.5 percent as demand increased for a range of goods from aircraft to machinery and computers and electronic products.

    Today.

  • Mike M.||

    What chapter of your book are you on now, scumbag? You've obviously been working on it fairly diligently over the last few days.

  • tarran||

    Guys, please stop responding to it. It doesn't care about the content of your rebuttals (it can't really comprehend them anyway). It just wants to matter, and your responses validate it.

    It's the Internet equivalent of a homeless guy screaming at a wall. When you guys respond, it's as if the wall screams back. And that's what it wants. You're only encouraging it to come around and scream some more.

    Don't be its wall!

  • Mike M.||

    Ignoring him won't work. You need to understand that this is literally his job. It's what he gets paid to do!

  • tarran||

    If it were being paid, why would your rebuttals make a whit of difference?

    DARE officers are paid too. IT meant that my son's attempts to convince him that drugs should be legalized was utterly futile and a waste of time.

    In the case of shriek, I have trouble anyone would pay it. What would be the return? What would be the benefit?

    And if they were, what's the harm in not responding? It would still make its comments, and we could have productive, funny or useful conversations.

    No matter how you approach the question, the answer is always the same; interacting with Shriek is at best a total waste of time.

    You'll note that it no longer attempts to engage with me. It's the product of my firm refusal to interact with it. It never replies to me, and only occasionally shows up in subthreads below my comments. This is the benefit of refusing to be its wall.

  • tarran||

    .. er I have trouble crediting that anyone would pay it.

  • Tonio||

    The true believer is far more persistent than the paid operative.

  • Restoras||

    You're right of course, Tarran. I will try harder to ignore it.

  • ||

    Ignore what? What are we even talking about?

  • Tonio||

    And that, Gentlemen*, is how we do that.

    *And you Ladies, too. All 3-5 of you.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    What rebuttal? He made up some shit then called me a scumbag. I can debate anyone here and squash them like a bug.

  • Mike M.||

    The worst part of all is I know your buddy Suderman will be wasting our time flacking the shit here on your behalf when it's eventually done. I'm sure it'll rival War and Peace among the great literary tomes, ROFL.

  • Free Society||

    What rebuttal? He made up some shit then called me a scumbag. I can debate anyone here and squash them like a bug.

    If by 'quash them like a bug' you mean regurgitate talking points and fallacious reasoning, followed a unilateral declaration of victory, then yes I suppose you really are that good.

  • ||

    I can debate anyone here and squash them like a bug.

    how about me Shrike...can you debate me and squash me like a bug?

    Should we talk about christfag or talk about the 800 billion in stimulus that "Bush" signed into law in February of 2009 or how about we talk about Martin Luther King and the fact that he was a right wing dead ender Baptist?

  • ||

    Poverty rate is up, prices are rising while paychecks are not, participation in the workforce has dropped around 4% this year alone.....

    Strangest recovery ever.

  • Free Society||

    Don't worry. The gubmint is going to dictate that wages be increased to offset the inflation caused by central bankstering the free market.

  • Restoras||

    How were mortgage applications, SFB?

  • Andrew S.||

    A few years ago, I was lamenting how when the economy did recover, eventually (as economies do, even without government intervention!), the Obamabots would claim that it means everything's working.

    it's taken years longer than it should have, and the economy still isn't recovering, but they're still managing to do that. I'm impressed.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    The economy suffered the worst financial crisis in history in 2008. GDP tacked at -8.9% and our largest banks would have failed without government intervention from a GOP president. There were 750,000 job losses a month.

  • 2ndClassProle||

    Thanks, to Dem controlled congress. We were on the up till Dems took control.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    You're too much of an idiot to name anything that Congress passed other than TARP - which Bush and Paulson begged Pelosi to pass so that the financial system would not implode while they were making their escape.

  • 2ndClassProle||

    I get a sparkle in my eye when you call me idiot.

    I do not need to name anything. We were on the up until Dems took over and we had the Great Recession, and since since Republicans took over the House 2010 the economy is getting better.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    GO TEAM RED!!!

    GO GO GO!

  • 2ndClassProle||

    Sorry, Tinman. I do not play for either side. It more like TEAM ME.

  • Free Society||

    You're too much of an idiot to name anything that Congress passed other than TARP - which Bush and Paulson begged Pelosi to pass so that the financial system would not implode while they were making their escape.

    In your previous post you asserted that the GOP did nothing to intervene. Now this. Which is it? OR do you just hate progressive intervention when it's not your tribe doing the intervening?

  • Andrew S.||

    Which responds to my comment how, exactly?

    I'm starting to think that you're not actually human. You're just better programmed than AnonBot. Scan for keywords and give a pre-programmed response, regardless of whether it makes sense in context.

  • Sevo||

    Palin's Buttplug|12.24.13 @ 10:10AM|#
    "Gobble, gobble gobble!"
    Go fuck your daddy.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    The economy suffered the worst financial crisis in history in 2008.

    LOL

    Yep totally worse than 1931-32 when 10,000 commercial banks in the US failed.

  • ||

    What, you didn't notice all the people standing in the bread lines with their shabby clothes and new iPhones?

  • DenverJay||

    +1

    "you can't dress trashy 'til you spend a lot of money" - Billy Joel

  • Marc F Cheney||

    GDP tacked at -8.9%

    I've conclusively demonstrated to Shriek that he has no idea what this statistic means. And yet here we go again.

    He's either an idiot, disingenuous, or some pathetic combination of the two. Engaging with him is a waste of your time, and stinks up the thread.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Textbook trolling.

    Shrike, did you notice that Barack Obama is a liar?

  • Restoras||

    He's not even a good liar. Most clueless president ever. Makes the Carter administration look good, and that is impressive.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Feast on these 20% approval ratings Americans gave to the Bushpigs.

    http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

  • Ken Shultz||

    "Feast on these 20% approval ratings Americans gave to the Bushpigs."

    What does that have to do with anything?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    'Restoras' is loyal Team Red. Notice his dig at Obama and Carter? He left out the fucking idiot Dumbya while that stench is still fresh in American nostrils.

    Carter was the most libertarian POTUS since Coolidge. But Team Red hates him.

    Carter deregulated everything in sight. Transportation, energy, banking and even beer making. No wars and no income tax increases. He should get a standing ovation from libertarians.

  • Sevo||

    Palin's Buttplug|12.24.13 @ 10:23AM|#
    "Gobble, gobble gobble!"
    Go fuck your daddy.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "Carter was the most libertarian POTUS since Coolidge."

    Deregulated everything!

    Here's somebody writing about Jimmy Carter's creation of the Department of Energy--read here about what an anti-libertarian, pro-regulatory idiot Jimmy Carter was:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/da.....gas-world/

    I remember when you had to wait in line for hours to buy gasoline. I remember when my dad couldn't buy gas on even numbered days because his license plate ended in an odd number. All because of Carter's "libertarian" deregulating?

    You don't even believe your own bullshit. You're just trolling.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Don't forget Carter's other achievement - the Department of Education - inflating educating budgets to produce worse outcomes for forty years.

  • C. Anacreon||

    "Jimmy Carter? He's history's worst monster!"

    - From The Simpsons, back before the days when they only had writers who thought saying "Republicans suck!" was the pinnacle of humor

  • Free Society||

    You received a series of rebuttals that you are not capable enough to counter. Then you vanish from sight as you declare victory.

  • Restoras||

    'Restoras' is loyal Team Red.

    You are so pathetic. Go ahead and find any post of mine in praise of Bush. Go on....I'll wait. In the meantime, do not post a single thing on this board until you can prove your lie.

  • tarran||

    This is my point! :D

    It's a random collection of neurons firing snippets of incoherent drivel!

    You are literally arguing with something that thinks counting to Potato is possible! Why waste the minutes?!?

  • 2ndClassProle||

    Well, the board is kind of slow today.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "You are literally arguing with something that thinks counting to Potato is possible! Why waste the minutes?!?"

    One potato, two potato...

  • Sevo||

    Palin's Buttplug|12.24.13 @ 10:12AM|#
    "Gobble, gobble gobble!"
    Go fuck your daddy.

  • Ken Shultz||

    The progressives expect a good president to lie. They think telling the truth is for idiots, retards, religious people, and rednecks.

    They see lying as part of Obama's responsibilities as the Liar-in-Chief.

    It's basically a Noble Lie sort of argument. They're never going to get the American middle class to back a progressive agenda by telling them the truth.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama wouldn't have to lie if you weren't such an intolerant racist, redneck, xenophobic, sexist homophobe.

    / progtard.

  • amelia||

    I think so. When it's their guy or gal, they're parental figures who get to lie to us for our own good. Doesn't apply to lies told by the demonic opposition.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "In June, President Obama described the NSA's bulk data collection as a "circumscribed, narrow" program that thwarted at least 50 terror threats. "Lives have been saved," asserted the president."

    If you like your Fourth Amendment, you can keep your Fourth Amendment.

  • Live Free or Diet||

    Oh no, not that Fourth Amendment. This new, improved, secret, wouldn't-stop-a-government-cow Administrative Finding Fourth Amendment!

  • Aloysious||

    All lies.

    You know, maybe I'm being cynical and paranoid, but I see Mr. Bailey in danger of being 'disappeared' by our benevolent protectors. I hope I'm completely wrong, but Clapper looks to me like he would do something that blatantly evil.

  • Andrew S.||

    I'm reasonably sure that all of us who post on Reason are on some list, held by the CIA or NSA or FBI. Or probably all three.

  • Aloysious||

    I have no doubt you are right. 'Subversive element', or maybe 'anti-government militia', is the name on the file that our info is saved in case it needs to be distributed to a compliant and submissive media.

    Half of me still thinks I should be wearing a tin foil hat.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Nah, we're all NSA agents skulking around looking for terrorists. Each and everyone.

  • Count Negroni||

    NSA agents spying on each other, or other agencies, is a fun mental image...

    But they actually put together an inter-agency office to make sure they didn't spy on each other in Warcraft.

  • ||

    I'm sure being an FFL holder and posting a lot of highly critical stuff under my real name has also placed me in good company.

  • From the Tundra||

    Just think of the fun to be had at the reeducation camps. Well, until they get Warty...

  • Ken Shultz||

    Oh no, no...

    The Obama Administration wants everyone to know that they can violate our rights with impunity--right out in public.

    That's what they want. ...for the futility to set in.

    The Obama Administration wants its critics and enemies to know that even when everyone in the world knows that they're violating the Constitution, there's nothing anyone can do to stop them.

    Abandon all hope.

  • 2ndClassProle||

    Ken there is way to stop it, depends on your comfort zone, but even with all the injustices of the US, we are still decent country to live.

  • Ken Shultz||

    We're still a decent country to live in?

    I was aiming a little higher.

  • 2ndClassProle||

    Always the perfectionist... :)

  • Restoras||

    Clapper does have a perfect Banality of Evil posterboy face.

  • Aloysious||

    'Punchable" face, as well.

    Now I'm really on a list.

  • 2ndClassProle||

    'Punchable" face, as well.

    Right there with you. Need a friend. :)

  • seguin||

    You know his family had their name changed when they immigrated through Ellis Island?

    It was originally "Gonorreatore."

  • ||

    Oh, you can bet they have a list. I dont remember the details, but they have 'reviewed' a huge number of people to access them as potential threats. I dont really know what that means, but I have my suspicions. If someone has better memory of that and can provide a link or details, please do.

    Apparently the Tsarnaev brothers were not on the list, but my money says journalists who are critical of the NSA are.

    Tyrants fear they people they rule more than foreign enemies.

  • 2ndClassProle||

    Napolitano had a list of all you libertarian types at DHS.

  • Tonio||

    Actually, those punks in Boston did them a favor. They provided justification for the ongoing assault on civil liberties and served as a laboratory for them to see just how much the American people would take.

    Also noteworthy is how the lapdog press didn't ask any tough questions about why they didn't know about this.

  • tarran||

    At the Liberty Papers a few years back, the DHS crawled our site so vigorously that the host thought we were getting a DDOS attack.

    I have no doubt I'm on some list.... a list of those who wouldn't be missed. ;)

  • 2ndClassProle||

    Unfortunately, we may have to make a list of our own.

  • BigT||

    I've been on the FBI list since a certain, ahem, gun incident, in 73. Thankfully I was only tangentially involved.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    “That is an oath to the Constitution. That is the oath that I kept that Keith Alexander and James Clapper did not.”

    An oath to preserve and protect the Constitution is really an oath of unquestioning loyalty and obedience to the self-aggrandizing politicians fanatically clinging to the reins of power.

    Everybody knows that.

  • Tonio||

    The Oath-Keepers would beg to differ.

  • Plisade||

    Thank you, Edward Snowden!

  • Ken Shultz||

    Does anybody know if there's a way to contribute to his legal defense?

  • ||

    legal defense

    That's almost amusing. Santa Claus is coming tonight, too.

  • Ken Shultz||

    There should be a way to do that.

    Someday, Russia is going to trade him back to the United States for something.

    It'll be interesting too, because whatever it is the president gives to Putin in exchange for Snowden, it will necessarily be something we gave away needlessly.

  • ||

    I did not mean that contributing to his legal defense would be amusing (I'd be first in line to do so).

    What is (not) amusing is the idea that he would receive some sort of process at all. Let alone the sort to which one might contribute.

  • Ken Shultz||

    That may be true.

    He could end up in Guantanamo.

    According to the AUMF, if the president decides that what Snowden did gave support to Al Qaeda, then the president is pretty much authorized to do what he wants with him.

    But I would love to see the president's Snowden spin jammed in the media by reports that Snowden had $x million in donations from ordinary Americans. I'd just like to see the president's narrative on Snowden jammed in the media somehow.

    Snowden should even have plenty of support from the hipster demographic that leans left.

  • 2ndClassProle||

    The Republican shill on Independents last night was saying Snowden should be placed in Gitmo. Can you imagine Snowden put in Gitmo from the president who was going to close it down.

  • Sevo||

    "Can you imagine Snowden put in Gitmo from the president who was going to close it down."

    Quite easily. "Two-faced" doesn't do justice to that lying POS

  • 2ndClassProle||

    It would be fun to see how the left would justify those actions, and the tears, never forget the tears.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    He could end up in Guantanamo.

    He should be so lucky.

    He's a lot more likely to wind up in a secret CIA prison like the one that was attacked at Benghazi, murdered and completely forgotten,

  • Andrew S.||

    Those donations would merely be used as a way to prosecute people for "providing material support to terrorism".

  • Ken Shultz||

    I considered that.

    But contributing to a 501c organization devoted specifically to Snowden's legal defense would not be material support to him--certainly not if the 501c is organized so that the checks are cut to his legal defense team and not him.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Seriously, people should start doing some obnoxious shit--just to get into the media.

    The people who used to wear Guy Fawkes masks should switch to Snowden masks. There should be a rally of Snowden mask wearers--a Million Snowden March!

    We should start a committee to put up a gigantic monument to Snowden on the National Mall.

  • 2ndClassProle||

    That sounds like fun.

    I found this Ken, but do not want to dirty myself by giving to ACLU

  • Pope Jimbo||

    A Million Snowden March? Sounds like a blizzard!

    And we all know how DC reacts to any snowfall...

  • BigT||

    Patriots' Day would be the appropriate time for a blizzard of Snowden support. Although Boston might be a bad choice of locale.

  • Pope Jimbo||

    No, no, no.

    Boston would be perfect. The slightest whiff of danger and they'd all be inside shivering and whispering "Boston Strong" to themselves.

    That leaves all the streets wide open to march on and parks clear to assemble in.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Yo ho ho, Merry Pirate-Mas! On this day, pirates and ninjas put aside their differences and share rum and saki.

    http://home.earthlink.net/~pir.....Songs.html

  • ||

    By liars, I mean NSA Director Keith Alexander, and Congressional Intelligence Committee chairs Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Mich.)

    Well, the congressperson from my party is honorable, but the congressperson from the other party is a lying liar funded by special interests!

    /teamtard

  • Jordan||

    That's some good bipartisanship. Whenever anyone whines about partisanship, I tell them that bipartisanship gave us the PATRIOT Act.

  • 2ndClassProle||

    Yeah, when they talk bipartisanship, hold on to your ass and your wallet.

  • Jordan||

    On Monday, Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) took to Twitter to commemorate Festivus:

    The Kentucky senator took to Twitter on Monday morning in honor of Festivus, the holiday created by George Costanza’s father on the show Seinfeld. It was likely the first time that a sitting Senator had commemorated Festivus. The U.S. Senate Historical Office, in response to a query from The Daily Beast, was unable to find an example of Senators who had celebrated Festivus publicly in the past. Paul did not fully observe the holiday, he didn’t raise a virtual aluminum pole or engage in feats of strength, he did take part in one of the most important rituals of the day, the “airing of grievances.”

    While many of Paul’s grievances were serious, including the lack of a Senate vote on his “Audit The Fed” bill and what he saw as significant increase in the debt in the most recent bipartisan budget deal, others were more lighthearted. The Kentucky senator complained about DC’s parking rules as well as what he saw as too many people on television wearing ties.
  • Ken Shultz||

    We had a thread about that yesterday.

  • Jordan||

    Well, son of a...

  • Ken Shultz||

    Just means it's a good topic!

  • tarran||

    The comments on the Daily Beast article are a hoot!

    Let's make fun of his looks, and darkly speculate that he is some tool of shadowy interests!

  • ||

    Coda 1 day ago

    I'll bet women, people of color, unemployed, seniors and the fundamentalists Christians are lining up to vote for this guy. On behalf of those who are suffering in this nation on this holiday, Mr. Rand, you are the joke, not your antics, you. Can't wait to see you whining to celebrate your take on this holiday. You are amazing.

    what the fuck?

  • Ken Shultz||

    They're convinced that libertarians are some radical form of social conservative.

    Seriously.

    When Barack Obama's position on gay marriage was indistinguishable from that of the Southern Baptist Convention, libertarians were...

    But no.

    Much of America still thinks that libertarians are a radical form of social conservative.

  • Sevo||

    "Much of America still thinks that libertarians are a radical form of social conservative."

    And often enough, one of the mis-informed shows up here to lecture us about libertarianism!
    I'm enlightened every time.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Does anybody know if there's a way to contribute to his legal defense?

    We should have a Kickstarter to build a giant guillotine on the Mall.

  • 2ndClassProle||

    Yep.. you just got put on the list.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    The economy suffered the worst financial crisis in history in 2008. GDP tacked at -8.9% and our largest banks would have failed without government intervention from a GOP president. There were 750,000 job losses a month.

    That's the thing about papier mache; it burns really fast.

  • ||

    "....when the economy did recover, eventually (as economies do, even without government intervention!)....

    FTFY

  • Auric Demonocles||

    In place of the Links thread:

    Today I learned that Donald Sutherland apparently lives just across the Canadian border from where I grew up. One of my old classmates met him last night at a restaurant about a half mile from my old high school. Considering it's the "city" of the area and only has 5000 people I never would have guessed an actual celebrity lived anywhere near it.

  • ||

    Oh yeah, speaking of slimy socialists.

  • C. Anacreon||

    But his son saves us from terrorists regularly, plus he can cross the entire city of Los Angeles by car during rush hour within the time it takes to run a few commercials.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Great Immense White Hope.

    But the gesture would come to seem genteel compared with the fate suffered by others in disagreements with Mr. Christie: a former governor who was stripped of police security at public events; a Rutgers professor who lost state financing for cherished programs; a state senator whose candidate for a judgeship suddenly stalled; another senator who was disinvited from an event with the governor in his own district.

    In almost every case, Mr. Christie waved off any suggestion that he had meted out retribution. But to many, the incidents have left that impression, and it has been just as powerful in scaring off others who might dare to cross him.

    Now, the governor is dogged by another accusation of petty political revenge. Two close political allies ordered the abrupt shutdown of two local access lanes on the George Washington Bridge in September, gridlocking the borough of Fort Lee for four days. The borough’s mayor said it was punitive because he had declined to endorse the governor’s re-election.

    Petty, vindictive narcissist? That's Presidential material, no question.

  • Jordan||

    No wonder he and Obama are such good friends.

  • DenverJay||

    The "Romney-ing" of Christie has begun, but it seems premature...unless Pravda is afraid he could actually win, and want a more conservative candidate to trash. Have they gotten so on board Team Blue that they would risk a loss rather than let a liberal Red, tht they actually agree with on most things, win?
    I hope Christie isn't the nominee, because I put the odds on a Red victory, and once a Red Pres continues the unconstitutional crap Obama does, then it becomes pretty much SOP, with no serious opposition.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    "We'll give ya a trial before we hang ya."

    The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the Snowden interview.

    Asked about the Snowden interview, White House spokeswoman Caitlin Hayden said: "Mr. Snowden faces felony charges here in the United States and should be returned to the US as soon as possible, where he will be afforded due process and all the protections of our criminal justice system."

    The President was too busy playing with his Richard M Nixon action figure to come to the phone.

  • Brian D||

  • ||

    Sure, we didn't bother to give the other few hundred million Americans the "due process and all the protections of our criminal justice system" while violating their Constitutional rights, and have baldfacedly lied and been caught about it repeatedly, but, trust us this time. Just the tip.

  • Marshall Gill||

    These comparisons to Nixon have just got to stop.

    Nixon was a saint compared to the scum bag in the WH.

  • ||

    So in another corner of the Internet a Swede complains that everyone at his local hospital is lazy and incompetent and he doesn't get good care there. Cue a torrent of non-Swedes (about 60/40 Euro/American) dogpiling and telling him how he must be mistaken because he lives in "socialist paradise" or how he doesn't really mean that, does he? Also a "But it's free!"

  • Sevo||

    "Also a "But it's free!""

    And worth everrrrry penny!

  • 2ndClassProle||

    Yeah, Steve Ratner(Perfect name for this guy)on Morning Joe was going on and on about how great Sweden was in context of income inequality and upward mobility, better than the US.

  • Sevo||

    Strange so few migrate to Sweden from the US.

  • 2ndClassProle||

    Why is that? Are US Immigration more relaxed than most countries?

    Also he was talking about US median wages going down to 49000, but Sweden is only 41000. Include tax burdens, and they are not doing very well.

  • Free Society||

    The only saving grace of the Nordic welfare states is their small population and high amount of natural resources for which these governments have license to plunder in order to fund their government largess. But uhhh socialism totally works...

  • 2ndClassProle||

    Speaking of socialism

  • 2ndClassProle||

  • Sevo||

    In not too long, you can do a similar one about toilet tissue in Venezuela.

  • John C. Randolph||

    Clapper and Alexander aren't just liars, they're PERJURERS. They have repeatedly lied under oath about billions of felonies committed by the minions of the organizations in which they work. If the Congress won't step up and abolish the NSA, then these crimes will continue.

    -jcr

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Peering into the Abyss.

    In October, the US legislative process hit rock bottom in setting fiscal policy.

    Yes, there have been other low points: the downgrade of the US credit rating after the 2011 debt-limit debate, nearly going over the “fiscal cliff” last January, and then allowing the mindless “sequester” cuts to go into effect in March. But the combination this past fall of Congress’ failure to fund federal programs for 2014 – leading to a two-week government shutdown – and another round of debt-limit brinkmanship took the cake.

    More than ever, the two parties were talking past each other, and Congress had failed to perform its most basic function. The American public was caught in the middle.

    Bipartisan Do-Somethingism is what the nation needs!

  • The Late P Brooks||

    In particular, the agreement will bring some near-term relief to the havoc that the sequester’s across-the-board cuts have wreaked on defense and domestic agencies – cuts that have also been limiting economic growth. But the deal did not produce a comprehensive solution to those reductions, which continue through 2021. And it still requires a funding bill by Jan. 15 for the current year. Nor did the legislation contain real provisions to boost economic recovery. But it is a much needed start.

    "Havoc"?

    How can anybody even say that with a straight face?

  • 2ndClassProle||

    One thing, they cannot say the economy tanked because of the sequester; it is all on Obamacare, now

  • Dave Krueger||

    It is way the past time for Clapper and Alexander to be fired and tried for lying to Congress and to the American people.

    That won't happen. The rules are different for the ruling class. Can you imagine what would happen if high ranking government officials were suddenly held accountable for their abuses of power? Well, for one thing, it would be a lot harder to find people willing to go along with those abuses.

  • Dave Krueger||

    "...I didn’t want to change society. I wanted to give society a chance to determine if it should change itself.”

    People want to think that officials are motivated by good intentions and they are just very enthusiastic about protecting national security. But this is not about national security. It's about government security. It's about government control over the population, because there is no bigger threat to any government than the population. National security is the excuse, not the motive.

    And it isn't about a bunch of evil officials conspiring to destroy freedom and democracy. It's about a bunch of officials who have rationalized what they do and consider themselves the good guys. They see the Constitution as outdated and those who criticize them are misguided. They are demonized because they are misunderstood. In their minds, they are doing what's best for us and we should be grateful. To them, the public is not qualified to judge them or tell them what to do. Despite any rhetoric to the contrary, this is the mentality that permeates government.

    The good news is that the voters will have the opportunity to throw out the politicians who have violated their oath of office and send a message to the next batch of officials that this kind of crap won't be tolerated anymore. The bad news is that the public is way too preoccupied with things like the Duck Dynasty gossip to even give a shit.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    As long as I'm going on the list anyways, here's my idea for improving that supposed low morale in the NSA: Hang the first three management layers of the NSA from the lampposts along the road to the NSA's offices starting with Clapper at Ft. Meade's main gate with cardboard "Traitor" signs suspended around their necks.

  • Drave Robber||

    "Lives have been saved," asserted the president.

    Some years ago, we learned that jobs "saved" can count as jobs created.

    Maybe this time, lives created count as lives saved?

  • Pope Jimbo||

    Think of the enterprising Yemeni who invents the shrapnel proof wedding dress! No more getting offed as collateral damage during your wedding.

    That is a twofer. He created a new job and saved lives.

  • Response||

    If you like your meta data, you can keep... nope, it's ours now.
    - your government

  • SteveYuhas||

    Metadata does not belong to the user of a device. I don't like it, but we don't own our phone bills (that's why you'll see a phone company testifying at trial about phone data, cell towers, etc.). Companies own the data we produce.

    Maybe the laws should be changed, but until they are, we've never owned telephone company records (or Internet for that matter).

  • Response||

    The issue with metadata is not who owns the data itself, but who has rights to the analysis of that data. It amounts to digital stalking.

    For example, let's say you walk along the streets of your neighborhood - no big deal. And you come across a neighbor and say hello and keep going - no big deal. Let's say their is a busybody neighbor who is constantly looking out through their window and monitoring whoever walks by - kind of annoying, but overall no big deal. Now you have someone who you don't really know (who has the ability to kidnap you) who walks up to every busybody in the neighborhood and starts asking about you and where you have been - kind of creepy and potentially illegal in this setting.

    So in the scenario above, you are you. Your neighbor is someone you communicate with digitally. Your phone company is the busybody. And the government is the stalker.

    Yeah, I think the laws may already be in place - just in different forms.

  • IceTrey||

    Actually Snowden did take an oath of secrecy and he did break it. So he is lying about that.

    "I solemnly swear that I will not reveal to any person any information pertaining to the classified activities of the National Security Agency, except as necessary toward the proper performance of my duties or as specifically authorized by a duly responsible superior known to me to be authorized to receive this information."

    http://9websites.com/airforce/oath.htm

  • Ken Shultz||

    Actually, Snowden also swore an oath to "defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_enlistment

    All enlisted personnel in the NSA who failed to uphold that oath should be investigated.

  • SteveYuhas||

    Read the entire oath and stay away from Wikipedia as a reference. None of the people being chastised here are enlisted personnel.

  • Jim in Denver||

    "except as necessary toward the proper performance of my duties"

    I consider defending the Contstitution as one of his duties as an employee of the NSA, and as such his revelation wasn't a violation of his oath.

  • MaggieMansfielddva||

    uptil I saw the draft for $8854, I accept ...that...my brother was like realie earning money in their spare time online.. there brothers friend haz done this 4 only about seven months and recently paid for the depts on there home and bought a gorgeous volvo. see page
    ===========================
    WWW.HomeProfitSystem.COM/tec30
    ===========================

  • Rational||

    How does anyone expect to grow a libertarian cause when the comments section is filled with drivel that only other proclaimed libertarians understand. Many of you have created your own alternative universe in which your very act of conversation is exclusionary in words that are just babble to many of us that believe in liberty. Speak (write) English for fuck's sake. If you did that maybe other's would join the conversation rather than spending half the time trying to decrypt what should be an interesting dialogue.

  • SteveYuhas||

    Mr. Bailey might very well find Edward Snowden's disclosures about what the National Security Agency (NSA) was doing admirable and anathema to the Fourth Amendment, but not only is that irrelevant, it is wrong. Bailey even accepts the notion that the oath Snowden took - an oath to the U.S. Constitution does not include keeping secrets. He's wrong.

    The oath Snowden took is identical to the oath of federal employees. It is true that the first part of the oath requires allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, but there is another part of the oath Snowden willfully accepted that some seem willing to ignore: "I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

    When Snowden fled to Hong Kong, he broke his silence in an interview with the South China Morning Post. He was both asked and offered the fact that he accepted the position with the NSA in order to gather information on programs there to release to journalists (and foreign governments). "My position with Booz Allen Hamilton granted me access to lists of machines all over the world the NSA hacked," he told the Post on June 12. "That is why I accepted that position about three months ago."

    The latter of the oath Snowden took - that he would faithfully discharge his duties and was accepting through no purpose of evasion - is not a minor subsection of the oath he swore.

  • Jim in Denver||

    His duty as an NSA employee (contractor) is to defend the USA/Constitution. I'd say what he did was right in line with his oath.

  • Marc F Cheney||

    Edward reached for the flagon to refill his cup. "So many vows...they make you swear and swear. Defend the president. Obey the president. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect God. Obey the laws. It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or the other.”

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