We’re Not Going to Have an “Adult Conversation” About State Violence, Are We?

health of the stateFacebookMore than a week after first allegedly shooting the daughter of a police officer and her fiancée, the Christopher Dorner saga ended with him most likely burning up in a cabin in which he holed up this week. The police may have set the fire themselves. Another account has the police pushing Dorner back into the burning structure [8:34pm ET update].  Officially it’s still unclear how the fire began*. Nevertheless, at the end of it, three four people were killed by a former police officer out on a vendetta against his former police force. And the LAPD responded by coming down on the city of Los Angeles for a week, shooting seemingly indiscriminately at targets that bore only the vaguest resemblance to Dorner and searching homes door to door. Almost comically, Dorner’s alleged manifesto included strong anti-gun sentiments. It’s useful to note here that most attempts at gun control include generous exemptions both for law enforcement and often ex-law enforcement. Feinstein’s bill does that. There was widespread panic when Cuomo’s anti-gun laws in New York didn’t.

Yet, Dorner, and ex-cops, aren’t the only ones that can be irresponsible gun owners. Earlier this week the attorney general of Ohio released an animation depicting how 13 cops managed to fire off an astonishing 137 rounds in under 30 seconds into a car with two unarmed passengers they pursued in a high speed chase after a phantom gunshot was heard in another town. Facing a critical eye from state authorities, the local police chief defended his force, saying there was none of the systemic failure the attorney general noted, even though the shift supervisor, for example, was unaware the chase involved so many patrol cars. But Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams, the two unarmed civilians killed by police in Ohio, are far from the only ones. Reason’s Mike Riggs noted some of the most prominent victims of police violence when New York City’s mayor, Michael Bloomberg, arrogantly suggested police go on strike until the population is disarmed:

What about Kelly Thomas, who screamed for his father while five cops beat him to death? Or Patricia Cook, shot to death by a deranged alcoholic with a badge? Or Andrew Scott, killed during a wrong-door raid? Or Nick Christie, gagged and pepper-sprayed to death by prison guards? Or Seth Adams, shot four times by a cop behind his family business, then left to die? Or Wendell Allen, who was unarmed when a New Orleans cop shot and killed him during a raid? Or Ramarley Graham, the 18-year-old New Yorker shot and killed by plainclothes cops for trying to flush a small bag of marijuana down the toilet? Or Kyle Miller, killed by Colorado police for waving a BB gun in the air? Or Todd Blair, killed by Utah police for raising a golf club above his head?

That's a smattering of names from the last year or so. A complete list is impossible, though you could spend months culling names from local media outlets. It would be significantly longer if we included people who were shot, but didn't die; or people who were just shot at by cops. It would be exponentially longer if we included people who were beaten, intimidated, wrongly arrested/incarcerated, or otherwise abused by police officers. 

Just a few months after Riggs wrote that, cops from the NYPD were involved in taking down a shooter at the Empire State Building. They shot more people in responding to the incident than the initial shooter. In fact, everyone but the coworker the shooter killed, was injured by shots from police officers.

At last night’s State of the Union address, President Obama suggested victims of gun violence deserve a vote in Congress. In the shadow of victims of state violence at home and abroad (up to 1,100 civilians and more than 200 children in known covert drone operations alone), the sentiment rings hollow. There won’t be votes for any of the victims of state violence listed above. And as for Dorner, he may not deserve much, but it looks like at the end he didn’t even deserve a jury trial.

*Update: Police say they didn't intentionally start the fire.

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  • The Derider||

    I'm pretty sure adult conversations don't start with an open question "Did the LAPD set the fire intentionally?" that is assumed to have a definitive answer "he didn't even deserve a jury trial" in order to make an ideological point.

  • ||

    He said adult conversation joe.

  • Jordan||

    Sidesteppin like a champ. Keep slurping that authoritarian cock.

  • ||

    Shut the fuck up, joe. Don't you have a bar to go to where people will pay you to let them toss you? Maybe you can get drunk and lose a fight too. The perfect joe night.

  • Hugh Akston||

    I think the UN put the kibosh on that sort of thing.

  • ||

    The first rule of Midget Toss Club, Hugh, is that you do not talk about Midget Toss Club.

  • brlfq||

    adult conversations

    Dear Derider,

    Do you know where you are?

    Best regards,
    brlfq

  • Virginian||

    Is this crazy Mary's new handle or what?

  • 34lbs||

    Yes, brifq is Mary, case closed, good work gang (¬_¬)

  • wakeup||

    and so are you

  • 34lbs||

    referencing the incident wherein i was accused of being mary.

  • ||

    I doubt it's Mary. If it was she would be attempting to grief me and/or the unfortunate fellow who shares my name at Brandeis.

  • Rabban||

    Is it supposed to be a riff on Jettero Heller? Like some secrete CoS sign?

  • ||

    Who?

  • Paul.||

    I'm pretty sure adult conversations don't start with an open question "Did the LAPD set the fire intentionally?" that is assumed to have a definitive answer

    The post didn't say that. It's referencing a question which arose from Police scanner chatter. Comprehend much?

  • Sevo||

    The Derider| 2.13.13 @ 7:18PM |#
    "I'm pretty sure adult conversations don't start with an open question "Did the LAPD set the fire intentionally?""

    Not surprising that brain-dead lefties support cop violence, is it?
    De idiot is just one more tin-pot dictator who hasn't managed to collect enough sycophants to shoot his way to power.
    Sleazy bastard.

  • Kyfho Myoba||

    The police scanner dialogue explicitly states that they were going to "burn that motherfucker down", "bring in the burners", "Alright, were going to burn it down now." A fed on the scene stated that someone attempted to leave through the back of the cabin while it was burning and was "chased" (?) back inside.

    Will any of these police or the ones that shot at the newspaper ladies or surfer be charged with attempted murder?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Andrew Scott wasn't killed during a wrong-door raid. The police were pursuing a suspect and found the suspect's vehicle in front of Scott's door, and when they knocked on his door he opened it and presented a gun. He didn't deserve to die of course but this was an extremely stupid act.

    And I'm not just saying that because it was cops; I'd have the same opinion if he had opened the door for any citizen and pointed a gun at them.

  • Hugh Akston||

    So you'd advise people to wait until someone forces his way into your home before pointing the gun?

  • Paul.||

    he opened it and presented a gun.

    Something many people might do if roused out of bed in the middle of the night by dark strangers in a dodgy neighborhood.

    Roused from his bed in the middle of the night by an unknown presence at his property, Andrew Scott answered the door holding a gun.

    [...]

    Hours later his bike was seen at the apartment complex, leading them to believe he was inside Scott's home.

    I haven't seen a layout of the apartment, but a motorbike matching the suspects doesn't make a randomly chosen door the "right" door. Even one relatively close to where the bike was found.

    To wit:

    31-year-old Brown was found in the building next door to Scott's and was arrested on the original attempted murder charge.

    See, the way this apartment complex thing tends to work is, cars sometimes park in places which aren't directly in front of the apartment they're going into.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....spect.html

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Uh, like I said, the cops didn't force entry. They have every right to knock on any door they want, just like anyone else in the world. Knocking on a door at night and being dressed in dark clothing does not justify brandishment.

  • ||

    WTF? The entire point of brandishing a weapon is that you don't know who is outside or why they are there. Fuck your " does not justify brandishment" you stupid fuck.

  • ||

    Don't knock on my door at 1:15 am and expect me to be pleased as punch to answer the door, offer you some tea, and catch up on the day's events in the parlor.

    If they had suspected that the perp was in the apartment, why did they knock? Did they expect the suspect to come out and say "aww, ya got me!" and go peacefully?

    You really can't be that dense....

  • ||

    He really can!

  • Calidissident||

    Pointed is not the same thing as possessed

  • Professional Target||

    I'd have the same opinion if he had opened the door for any citizen and pointed a gun at them.

    They banged on the door at 1:15 AM, didn't identify themselves, and didn't expect the resident to have a gun?! Are you kidding?

    BTW, the suspect lived right next door. They knew who he was but you're saying they didn't know his address? The least offensive way to view this is they had the wrong door.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    They didn't know the suspect's name at the time, they were pursuing him from the scene of the crime.

    And yes, I expect a person to refrain from pointing a gun at me for knocking on their door. How does he know it's not someone with a legitimate emergency? If you want to bring a gun to the door, keep it out of sight at the very least.

  • JW||

    "If you want to bring a gun to the door, keep it out of sight at the very least." she huffed. Gladys then went on and on about those colored neighbors of hers and what they're doing to the property values in the neighborhood, and how rock and roll is going to turn their children into jiggling savages.

  • Homple||

    It's Ragtime, not Rock and Roll that's turning children into savages.

    Ragtime! Shameless music that'll grab your son, your daughter... and so forth.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Indeed. Ragtime was responsible for this.

  • Gene||

    I want to click on the link but it has msnbc in the address. Next time please use tiny url, this was discussed last night. BTW I think you have the links out here.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Why the fuck did I watch that...

  • General Butt Naked||

    And yes, I expect a person to refrain from pointing a gun at me for knocking on their door.

    And if they do have a gun then you have the right to shoot them where they stand: in their own home.

    Your notion of how the real world works is child-like in it's naivety. Guess that's what happens when someone never lives outside of the fantasy land called academia.

  • Whahappan?||

    I don't think he actually pointed the gun at the unidentified cops at the door. It was the cops who had their guns pointed as the door was opened.

  • Professional Target||

    They didn't know the suspect's name at the time, they were pursuing him from the scene of the crime.

    You're right, there is a worse interpretation: They didn't run the license plate while pursuing him.

    And yes, I expect a person to refrain from pointing a gun at me for knocking on their door. How does he know it's not someone with a legitimate emergency?

    If it's a legitimate emergency they can damn well get over how I answer the door.

    If you want to bring a gun to the door, keep it out of sight at the very least.

    I don't care if it's Jesus Christ! Come on over and bang on my door at 1:15 AM and I guarantee that if we answer, it'll be with my Mossberg 500 in hand and my wife covering with her Mini-14.

  • JW||

    Forget it, guys. It's Tulpatown.

  • RBS||

    The Happiest Place on Earth!

  • Art Vandelay||

    With no food trucks? I don't think so.

  • ||

    Doesn't sloopy had you and dumbphy your asses on this every single time y'all bring it up?

    Ballistics and forensics shows it was nearly impossible that he was "pointing" the gun at the unidentified cops.

    But it's good to know you'll never answer your door with a gun in your hand.

  • ||

    I wish the Hit & Republicans would give you the business the way they give joe.

  • Professional Target||

    The last Republican president I voted for was Reagan.
    IOW you don't know what you're talking about.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    OT, but is about state violence: Distinguished Warfare Medal for drone operators. Suck it Bronze Star recipients!

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.c.....-warriors/

  • ||

    The military internets are exploding in rage tonight. Some Pentagon colonels gave some extraordinary head to make this happen. Give them a medal.

  • Virginian||

    Meanwhile, it's Chuck Yeager's birthday today. Someone who actually earned his medals.

  • Jim Tom||

    Hurrah! They did this so obama can get a medal for taking out bin laden.

  • ||

    They usually open these new awards up for past achievements. Janet Reno, step up!

  • Cdr Lytton||

    No luck for Reno. Qualifyimg date is 9/11/01 and after. That portly AF general running the video in the WH for the Osama takedown should be a lock though.

  • ||

    Another Nobel?

  • Almanian!||

    Another Goebbels. Beer, not Josef.

  • Paul.||

    at targets that bore only the vaguest resemblance to Dorner

    Your'e too kind, Ed. They bore no resemblence whatsoever.

    Oh, new conspiracy theory going around.

    Po-po had Dorner days ago, killed him, and dumped him in the cabin and set fire to it-- right next to their command center- an area they had control over.

  • ||

    They bore no resemblence whatsoever.

    I dispute this. They were all generally person-shaped and bipedal, with a head and 2 arms.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    when they knocked on his door he opened it and presented a gun.

    Tow that lion.

    TOW IT!

  • Almanian!||

    presented a gun

    I'm hearing Butthead say, "Uhhhhh.....here's my gun...I'm presenting it. Uhhh huh huh....huh huh....huh huh...huh huh..."

  • RenkBooo||

    Sounds like a pretty good call to me dude.

    www.Anon-Tools.da.bz

  • Certified Public Asskicker||

    Who are you and where the fuck is Waaman?!

  • RBS||

    Watch for the next episode of To Catch a Pedobot.

  • SIV||

    RenkBooo digs the old Icelandic ladies. Keep up with all the comments!

  • Paul.||

    Reason’s Mike Riggs noted some of the most prominent ones when New York City’s mayor, Michael Bloomberg, arrogantly suggested police go on strike until the population is disarmed:

    Go on strike. Fucking go. GO!

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Yet another thing Coolidge got right.

  • ||

    Hey, a tree is judged by the fruit it bears. For those of you not getting it, LAPD = Tree. Dorner = Fruit. Epi also = fruit, but not the same kind. I keed I keed!

  • ||

    So did you get that sext I sent you?

  • ||

    I thought you said you laser. YOU LIE

  • ||

    It's an ongoing process!

  • ||

    Nothing on this earth should ever have to view that, unnerstan? NEVAR!

  • Hugh Akston||

    Judging by the pictures Epi sends me every morning, he is a kiwi.

  • Art Vandelay||

    Green and squishy? Or covered in a coarse, furry skin?

  • ||

    Yes.

  • brlfq||

    Three people were killed by a former police officer Navy sniper

    FIFY.
    Y'all are welcome.

  • ||

    It's been reported that burlfuck is such a fat fuck she has her own gravitational pull.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    It's all that cake.

  • brlfq||

    OT
    If Jenna Fischer has really large breasts, does this mean that she can act?

    BONUS QUESTION: Does it really matter?

    http://youtu.be/uXivxjDxevU

  • ||

    So is this another "fart in a jar" meme thing you're trying to start, burlfuck?

  • ||

    Is "adult" in this context a euphemism for "erotic"? If so then yes, I'd like to have an adult conversation involving violence.

  • ||

    I like the way you think, Jim.

    But not state violence. No no no.

  • ||

    That's hot enough that it would almost entice me to visit Chicago. Almost.

  • ||

    Well in the meantime, I would be interested in subscribing
    to your newsletter.

  • ||

    This is why libertarians can't have nice things wimmenz.

  • Brendan||

    I think this is what gun control people think an "adult conversation" means. It goes a long way towards explaining why they always talk about penises in relation to gun control

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Fun fact: cops and retired cops are exempted from California's AWB. Perhaps that should be revisited, in case any other cops decide to wander of the reservation. They've been milking the North Hollywood bank shootout as an excuse to grab guns. Why not use this to disarm them?

  • playa manhattan||

    "Nevertheless, at the end of it, three people were killed by a former police officer"
    As of last night, it was 4. The daughter and her fiancé, the Riverside police officer, and the San Bernardino Deputy.

  • mr lizard||

    The comments over at CNN are shockingly pro-dorner and flying so fast that it keeps crashing my browser. Me thinks reason dwellers, Moar-free-shiters, and CNN readers might have found common ground

  • wheelock||

    How does questioning whether the police should be indiscriminately shooting at random cars and quite likely summarily executing someone by burning them alive make anyone "pro-dorner"?

  • ||

    Reason dwellers? I am not aware of anyone here being pro-Dorner. If so, who?
    And stop licking your own eyeballs, that really bugs me.

  • Almanian!||

    Not gonna lie - hard to not "root" for Dorner in a perverted way.

    Naaaaah - this was truly "God, I hate ALL these fuckers." What a shit sandwich.

  • ||

    You don't support Obama, you MUST support BOOOSH.

    /PB

    You don't like government funded education, you ARE against education.

    /T o n y

    You aren't a fan of the boyz in blue, you MUST support Dorner.

    /mr lizard

  • ||

    OT: Obama will not skip Chicago on his Commonsense Crusade:

    President Obama will return home on Friday has he continues to push his economic agenda and anti gun violence initiatives–in a speech not far from where 15-year-old Hadiya Pendleton was fatally shot last month.
  • ||

    Another account has the police pushing Dorner back into the burning structure [8:34pm ET update].

    Ed, did you mean to imply that the police shoved (physically pushed) him back in the cabin? If so, that's some yellow journalism. Is there anyone here that took it that way?

    I took it as Dorner came out the back shooting and was forced back in from the return fire. I seriously doubt there would be close contact during a gunfight and I believe you are intentionally twisting it into something improbable in order to support your opinion.

    Leave those tactics to lesser publications.

    I am disappoint.

  • Ed||

    "Push" is not my choice of word, it's the U.S. Marshall's as reported by CNN

  • ||

    Yes, Ed, I heard that too. And I believe most reasonable (DRINK) people would assume it was a euphemism for "he came out the back shooting and our gunfire drove him back into the building."

    NOT, get back in there so we can burn you to death.

    Which scenario is more likely?

    I'm no cop lover, but on something like this, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until I have better information.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Although the canisters included pyrotechnic tear gas, which generates heat, "We did not intentionally burn down that cabin to get Mr. Dorner out," McMahon said.

    But that doesn't mean you also didn't intentionally not burn down the cabin, Sheriff.

    Canisters were launched. Heat was generated. Fires were set. And nothing else happened.

    Gricean implicature is a bitch.

  • Sevo||

    Procedures were followed! Mistakes were made!

  • ||

    Gricean implicature is a bitch.

    And lo, your plumage gives you away.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Speaking of plumage*...does Reasonable only show one's gravatar if an email is supplied on the reason site?


    *My question has nothing to do with plumage, but the title of this Wikipedia article is hilarious.

  • ||

    So, it has to be supplied shown. I got all into this the other night. You have to remove a URL if you show one, then display the email, then your next comment will have the Gravatar. If you start out showing nothing and begin showing your email, it should immediately propagate the avatar through all your comments (you may have to refresh).

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Ah, thanks. That sucks. I'll just have to keep my anonymity then and just hope people click my url link then.

  • ||

    It doesn't have to be the address you actually signed up with. You can use a fake one to just "show" and tie that to the Gravatar.

    Nice picture though. Make that shit happen.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Ah. I see.

    George Cruikshank was a horrible man.

  • ||

    Oof, indeed

  • ||

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I'm like that, but split horizontally.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    OK. Honeypot email created. Thanks for the help, nicole.

  • JW||

    Is this thing on? Testing.

  • ||

    From what I got from the teeeveee commentary the other night, and maybe our own super-cop can corroborate, there are two types of tear gas dispensers, hot and cold.

    IF true, I wonder why they'd choose to use the hot canisters on a wooden structure?

  • Harvard||

    [and maybe our own super-cop can corroborate, ]

    If you refer to Dumby I think we've pretty well established he isn't a cop.

  • Harvard||

    Or an expert, resident or not.

  • ||

    Oh, I'm fairly certain he's a cop.

    He's just an arrogant, conceited braggart cop. I have no reason to doubt him.

  • Killazontherun||

    Last week Harvard asked dunphey who was claiming to be on his shift how he found the time to be putzing around here. Dunphey said he was on his break. A break that lasted two and a half hours long where he had been writing up post of several hundred words length if not in the thousands reminiscent of MNG and John morning squabbles of yore?

    I don't see how you can believe him to be a cop. Anytime I bother to read his tripe I find glaring inconsistencies staring back at me.

  • ||

    Meh. Maybe.

    No surprise a public servant's break could last 2.5 hours.

    He's certainly a bullshitter, but I take him at his word. I mean, what kind of libertarian (which his is...mostly) would claim to be a pig if he really wasn't?

  • Almanian!||

    A not-really-all-that-libertarian person, like derpfee.

  • ||

    Well, I'll take 100 Dunphies to one Tony. I'll take 97 Dunphies to one buttplug. I take 10 Dunphies to 1 Tulpa. Two Dunphies to a single John.

    When it comes to libertarianism, I'm not a fan of the purity test. Rather you be a little than none at all. Rather you be more than just a little. Take what I can get.

    Once the libertarians take over the world, we can start arguing about who's not libertarian enough.

  • ||

    Once the libertarians take over the world, we can start arguing about who's not libertarian enough.


    ...That's what Trotsky said!

  • ||

    Well, I'll take 100 Dunphies to one Tony.

    I bet you would, Hit & Republican.

  • ||

    I bet you would, Hit & Republican.

    Now THAT'S funny.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Someone who would lie about being a cop isn't exactly operating at full capacity. A little bit of cognitive dissonance wouldn't be untypical of such a person. Hell, you need a healthy dose of cognitive dissonance to actually BE a cop (at least in most major PD's) and still be a libertarian.

  • ||

    er he not his.

    edit function please

  • General Butt Naked||

    Edit butons are for dum shits rhat cant sppel it rite teh firs time.

  • C. Anacreon||

    His descriptions of patients that cops bring to ERs has been spot on. Would be hard to know a lot of what he says if he wasn't at least a cop at one time.

  • Harvard||

    Male nurse. And gay.

  • Killazontherun||

    Well, I knew if he was stupid enough to hide in a wooden based structure that is what they were going to do. Toss a Schumer special his way. If I knew then how could they have possibly have not known they would do just that?

    We all knew when we heard he was surrounded in a cabin it was soon going to start burning. Don't they ever realize when they are picking their noses in public?

  • Sevo||

    OT:
    Snopes tries really, really hard to say: Well, it isn't *that* bad!
    http://www.snopes.com/photos/p.....itchen.asp
    Sorry, snopes, if the guy can afford the phone and the service, he can afford to PAY FOR HIS OWN DAMN FOOD.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I thought Obamaphones were free?

  • ||

    The only parts disputed are that it was a government-run/funded operation and the probable cost of the cellphone. Accurate, as far as it goes.

  • Sevo||

    And if you click on the supposed 'privately-funded' soup kitchen, you're not going to get anything.
    Bullshit; it's a non-profit funded by some city.
    The image of he and she deserve to be spread all over the web, and shithead can once again explain how the poor are 'dying in the streets' if we cut one penny from welfare.

  • Sevo||

    Correction:
    Bullshit; it's a non-profit funded by some city taxpayers.

  • 34lbs||

    http://www.miriamskitchen.org/financials, They are almost 100% private, but they get some shit from the government, they go $30,000 in 2011, which is less than a tenth of their budget. So... yeah they do get a bit.. but it's a lot better that the homeless and starving get their food this way rather than from food stamps amirite?

  • 34lbs||

    Everyone's talking about private-public partnerships... imagine replacing the welfare system with that... dunno.. just sum dumb ideer frum my brian.

  • Sevo||

    34lbs| 2.13.13 @ 10:31PM |#
    "Everyone's talking about private-public partnerships... imagine replacing the welfare system with that... dunno.. just sum dumb ideer frum my brian."

    I'd go for private only, but I live in SF. Every damn 'non-profit' is funded by the city gov't, so I get a bit testy about claims of 'charity'.
    See: http://www.sfweekly.com/2009-1.....n-the-u-s/

  • 34lbs||

    It's a bit hard trying to be a libertarian in a statists' world isn't it.... But I say fuck it though, if one program is 100% public funded and the other is 50% public funded, you know which one i'll be supporting.

  • Sevo||

    Page Not Found
    And if I get 10% from *any* customer, that's a GOOD customer.
    Gov't funded, period.

  • 34lbs||

    darius404's link works better, but considering your response you've already been there. Anyway, considering the fact that their financers are probably paying shit loads in taxes anyway, they are basically 100% private...

  • ||

    You would be mostly wrong: http://www.miriamskitchen.org/financials

    They received less than $30,000 from "government sources" in 2011, and if their 2013 budget of $3,100,000 is any indication of previous years, that would have accounted for ~.01% of their 2011 budget.

  • 34lbs||

    Yeah.. so less than a tenth was an understatement. They are a private charity Sevo...

  • Sevo||

    It seems I stand corrected re: the funding. Not the claims re: the phone.

  • ||

    Yeah, how expensive the phone is a lot more debatable. I think the assertions as to cost are not unsupportable, homeless and jobless people can still get money; but it could very well be more expensive.

  • 34lbs||

    Has anyone ever done some research into the cost efficiency of private charity vs government social programs. Just wanna look into might be interesting.... and support my confirmation bias...

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I don't think mistakes were made in this case. The LAPD's extrajudicial death squad was quite efficient once Dorner was located.

    I wonder how many of the LAPD's top cops have studied at the School of the Americas?

  • Killazontherun||

    Damn good question.

  • 34lbs||

    LAPD had a nice relationship with the CIA at one time, concerning you know like Black Panthers and dissidents and shit. Might have learnt something off of them.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    According to Bratton, LAPD's only mistake was hiring Dorner in the first place.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    NOT, get back in there so we can burn you to death.

    Based on their performance over the past week, why would you not assume their intention was explicitly to kill him?

  • ||

    Oh, I do. But I have no evidence to support such a belief. Just suspicion.

    I just don't think that comment is relevant in the context of Ed's point.

    "We pushed him back into the burning building" to me means, as I said, that he tried to escape out the back and they shot at him and he subsequently ran back inside the burning building. They were in a gunfight. I see nothing wrong with that.

    Now if he had yelled out that he surrenders and came out with his hands up, that would be a completely different story.

    I just don't think that comment qualifies as evidence supporting the premise that they killed him intentionally.

  • Tman||

    "if he had yelled out that he surrenders and came out with his hands up, that would be a completely different story."

    Yeah, but he had shot at a bunch of cops already, and killed three of them. If he has no hostages the point of negotiation is long past. I'm not going to ask more cops to die just so they can get him alive.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I'm not going to ask more cops to die just so they can get him alive.

    So, you're not going to ask cops to do their job?

  • Tman||

    If their job was "stop the lunatic from shooting at people by burning him to death" then yes, they did their job.

    Mission accomplished.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Then they are not police, they are extrajudicial killers.

    Not only that, the only reason they killed him without due process is that they were too lazy to conduct a siege. Or do you think Dorner had unlimited access to food and water in that cabin?

  • Tman||

    The only reason they killed him without due process is because he was fucking shooting at them, and had already killed three. I'm not sure why this is so complicated. I'm not defending the right of cops to be extrajudicial killers. I'm defending the right of cops to defend themselves from someone shooting at them and the rest of the community.

  • R C Dean||

    If he tries to surrender, the fact that he had been shooting at them becomes irrelevant.

    Killing a cop does not give every other cop an unlimited license to shoot you regardless. Well, not legally, anyway.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Sorry. It's been a long day.

  • R C Dean||

    Now if he had yelled out that he surrenders and came out with his hands up, that would be a completely different story.

    He might've.* We'll never know. The only witnesses were the people sent there to kill him.

    *I doubt it, but he was just as likely to get arrested and brought before a judge as OBL, and we all know it.

  • Harvard||

    Have you not seen the news footage? Literally hundreds of Dumby's, replete in their para military garb, all with little chubbies, their entire beings charged by the chance they'll be able to shoot somebody, anybody, and they will get some 'cop cred.
    I wonder how many shot into the charred corpse like the Seal Team 6 members who were denied a shot at Bin Ladin.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    It's more like how Brutus and all his fellow conspirators had to stab Caesar's body, even after he fell.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||



    Miguel Bloombito
    ‏@ElBloombito
    El suño will come outo, mañana. Bet tu bottomo peso que that mañana, esta will be suño!
  • 34lbs||

    News, people who are born eventually die. The EU is considering legislation banning birth, meanwhile government funded contraception will pick up the slack.

  • wakeup||

    hi, Mary!

  • Sevo||

    Doubt it.

  • 34lbs||

    Funny, Kizonakaprow/Liberty/American/YouKnowMyName said the exact same thing to me....

  • Killazontherun||

    Kizonakaprow

    You mean mean me? I don't recall threading with you before now, but, okay, if you say so.

  • 34lbs||

    Is you KizoneKaprow? not Killazontherun, this is kizonekaprow's YT channel, http://www.youtube.com/user/KizoneKaprow, do you operate it, because i was under the impression that he was YKMN/

  • Killazontherun||

    Wow. There really is a guy with that handle. It's so horrible, it sounds out like a parody of mine. My bad.

  • wakeup||

  • 34lbs||

    Considering that the government are our parents, is this corporal punishement?

  • Coeus||

    Here's what happens when you kill a cop's dog. But no, no double standard there.

  • General Butt Naked||

    These fucks will burble up over a dog, but get backslappingly happy over nailing a perp.

    Killers are always sentimental children.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Thanks Ed!

  • Ken Shultz||

    "Police say they didn't intentionally start the fire."

    LOL

  • wakeup||

    It was always burning
    Since the world's been turning

  • Generic Stranger||

    Hmm..are there enough police-started fires to make a full parody of that song? Might have potential, but it'd take forever to do the research.

  • Ken Shultz||

    It was just a coincidence!

    There was an exchange of gunfire. He killed one cop, and another one was wounded. Then they surrounded him in a cabin...

    ...and miraculously--at that very moment--it just happened to burst into flames.

    A Festivus miracle!

    P.S. They must think we're stupid.

  • wakeup||

  • wakeup||

  • Ken Shultz||

    The easiest question to answer is whether they'll reshut that investigation a) right away or b) sooner than that.

  • buybuydandavis||

    "The police may have set the fire themselves."

    Does Janet "The Torch" Reno have an alibi?

  • RenkBooo||

    Sounds like a very good deal to me dude.

    www.AnonWeb.da.bz

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