Reason Replay: What Part of Legal Immigration Don't You Understand?!?!?

Editor's Note: With discussion about immigration reform heating up - and renewed interest in this feature from our October 2008 issue across the web and on cable news shows (The Washington Post's Wonkblog and MSNBC's Rachel Madow name-checked it yesterday), Reason is happy to republish this quick, infuriating explanation of just how dysfunctional and punishing the legal immigration system is.

From our October [2008] issue, Mike Flynn, Shikha Dalmia, and Terry Colon show what it takes to legally immigrate to America. Click on the image below to see a larger version. Click again to expand it.

Read the whole issue here.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • Brother Ken||

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • $park¥||

    See, America would be so much better if it wasn't for those damn darkies and slopes. They're obviously polluting the white culture.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I like how the video ignores all the peaceful, wealthy countries with diverse populations, like Singapore.

  • rickl7069||

    No matter what anyone thinks, there is not an ounce of racism(belief in a superior race) in me. So, let me attempt to address your point with that said.
    Your point is true, but has absolutely no bearing on the point of the video. The point is that practically every race has a country to call home, except the white race, and they do have a valid point. Also, statistics prove that the white race IS dying off, as of last year, Caucasians are officially in the minority in the United States. I want to know when WE are going to get our minority rights.

  • Randian||

    So what?

  • rickl7069||

    So, if the lowering percentage of whites continues at the same rate, then my grandchildren or great grandchildren will be in the extreme minority and, if history is any indicator, that means that they will be treated as inferiors and abused. And, while I do not believe that the white race is superior, I do not want that for my family in the future.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    That assumes there will be some other group that would constitute a majority. In a scenario where you have more than two groups (there is no group called "minority") the minority of one group does not constitute the majority of another.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Don't confuse Rick with high-falutin' terms like "plurality". Besides, I don't get the X-race/group is dying trope. Worried about your population? Fuck more. It's a win-win if you ask me.

  • rickl7069||

    I guarantee you my IQ is higher and I am more educated than you are. Possible I'm wrong, but you would have to be in the top 1% to be smarter than I am.
    So, I'll try not to confuse you with pointing out your Ad Hominem attack actually makes you look like a fool. And, no, I am not discussing the debate here, so this is not an Ad Hominem attack, it is a reply to your lack of logic.

  • ||

    I guarantee you my IQ is higher and I am more educated than you are. Possible I'm wrong, but you would have to be in the top 1% to be smarter than I am.


    Ha, good joke, retard.

  • rickl7069||

    In logic you are correct, but logic rarely applies to government and government still awards contracts and grants and such to minorities and I'm wondering when I can get my preferential government treatment since the white "race" is no longer the majority.
    Since you didn't seem to pick up on it in my first post, maybe you can pick from this post the sarcastic tone about minority statuses.

  • RightNut||

    A. The "white race" is neo-nazi bullshit. Their has never been a "white race", ever.

    B. Their is a good chance you kids or grandkids will marry a none-white, so cheer up.

  • rickl7069||

    A. You are correct, there is no such thing as a white "race", but it is convenient to refer to white people as a race for some purposes.
    B. You are correct and it depresses me that in the future, if current declines continue, that there will be no white "race". The white "race" is in no way superior to any other "race", but I'm kind of fond of it, since I happen to be one of those crackers.

  • Free Society||

    I prefer fair skinned blonde haired blue eyed women. Color me a klansman if the thought of that beauty's extinction is a bit sad.

  • NJRP919||

    why does a race need a country. No one is stopping you from moving to Africa

  • ||

    that would be cuter if it was wearing a hat

  • Voss||

    like Michael explained I am blown away that a single mom can profit $5287 in one month on the internet. did you look at this web site... http://www.snag4.com

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    MSNBC's Rachel Madow name-checked this last night

    Maddow is unfortunately willfully blind the effects of inevitable bureaucracy on people in dealing with other areas of government regulation.

  • ||

    Rachel Maddow might be willfully blind, but she is Canada's second-best kd lang impersonator, after Justin Bieber

  • RBS||

    Maddow is Canadian?

  • ||

    No, you're right, I'm wrong. For some weird reason I always think of her as Canadian.

  • SugarFree||

    She might as well be.

  • Rufus J. Firefly||

    Please. We have ENOUGH Rachel Maddow's up here.

  • Jeff||

    I prefer to think of her as America's best Ralph Macchio impersonator.

  • Drake||

    I can't look at her without thinking of Wesley Crusher.

  • RightNut||

    Do you hope a warp core breach kills her every time you see her then?

  • Randian||

    I hope that the Traveler takes her away to his Quantum Den of Iniquity.

  • RightNut||

    Is the Traveler really Keith Olbermann? Is that what he meant when he says "places where thought and energy combine"?

  • Randian||

    The Traveler is Dennis Kucinich, silly.

  • RightNut||

    That....makes alot of sense. People always joke that he's from another planet.

  • ||

    Investors will open up clothing manufacturing businesses when 11 million Mexican low wage workers become citizens. Returning sweatshops to America will insert the musical sounds of buzzing sewing machines into big cities. There is no stigma for those who work hard even if the wages are low.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    The costs of PPACA and minimum wage laws to employers make that questionably viable.

  • Cloudbuster||

    I'm sure that graphic is meant to inspire outrage, but frankly, it looks about right to me.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    An immigration system designed around economic protectionism and union cronyism "looks about right" to you?

    How long have you suffered from degenerative myopia?

  • SugarFree||

    Cut out the crap| 1.29.13 @ 4:31PM |#|–|filternamelinkcustom

    Nazi shitbags? Let's do a quick comparison:

    Nazis: fiercely advance the interests of their own people, even at the expense of foreigners and capital markets.

    Libertarians: advance the interests of foreigners and capital markets, even at the expense of fellow citizens.

    And you really wonder why, even today, fascist parties are getting more votes than libertarian ones?
  • ||

    for heaven's sake, fascist parties are getting more votes because armbands and jackboots are in this season. Doesn't anyone sit in the front row at fashion week around here?

  • Free Society||

    Because the vast majority of people are taught to use coercion against their peaceful neighbors to achieve their goals.

  • DarrenM||

    I'm sure that graphic is meant to inspire outrage, but frankly, it looks about right to me.

    One of the ridiculous things about immigration is the quotas they give to different countries and regions. It's like we need to have the 'correct' proportion of people from all over the world. They can't just allow people to immigrate in the order they apply. So what if we become overwhelmingly one race/ethnicity or not.

  • Drake||

    This what you get any time a bureaucracy draws a process map without aggressive management and the pressure of competition. I shudder to think what a military procurement or offshore oil-drill permit process looks like.

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    As I recall, the off-shore drilling process map looks an awful lot like an x-ray of Cthulhu's head.

  • Mr. Love||

    I've had a lot of experience with that, the skilled worker on a renewable H1-B visa. After 16 years in the US, some of which I spent waiting for a permanent work visa, I was sent packing by the INS. I've been back in Europe for the past 18 months. I still work for the same company, doing the same work, getting paid a little more and paying all my taxes to my current country of residence. I have absolutely no plans to ever go back to the US. I don't know how many others are in a similar situation, but this may translate into a whole lotta taxes not collected by the US government due to its own stupidity.

  • The Sego Sago Kid||

    A buddy of mine got shipped back to Indonesia due to some retarded bureaucratic bullshit. Never mind he'd been here for 5+ years working diligently as a programmer. Never mind we all loved him and his employer fought hard to keep him around. Nope, he had to go on a technicality. Something about the fact that he was e-commuting in from a different state (he was a programmer) than his employer. Who the hell knows; there are 10 billion fucking pointless rules.

    He should have just came here illegally. It would have worked out better for him.

  • The Sego Sago Kid||

    I feel I should mention he was a programmer.

    Oh, and also, he was a programmer.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    And what program did this programmer program?

  • The Sego Sago Kid||

    He had a program full of programs to program.

    He also was into older chicks, which made him pro-Grams.

  • Rufus J. Firefly||

    Wheels weren't in motion?

  • deffmike||

    With all due respect they could recoup their tax money from the employment of Americans who's jobs were displaced as a result of the H1B visa program. Not that it matters who pays the taxes, I now understand to be a true libertarian you must realize that being native born doesn't give you any special rights to employment over foreign born applicants.

  • Spoonman.||

    But more skilled workers from overseas doesn't mean less skilled jobs for Americans. It means more wealth generated in America which can employ the skilled Americans and the skilled foreigners too.

    And the fact that H1B visas run out on the first day means that there just aren't enough skilled Americans to meet demand.

  • deffmike||

    I'm not going to argue whether or not protectionism is a bad thing because frankly I don't know enough about the subject to form an opinion one way or the other. in all cases. To say that everyone would comes out on top if the H1B visa cap were lifted would be a bit naive though. But that's the price of having a free market. There's going to be winners and losers.

  • MWG||

    Life... particularly as it relates to 'the market' is not a zero-sum game.

  • Sevo||

    deffmike| 1.30.13 @ 9:22AM |#
    "I'm not going to argue whether or not protectionism is a bad thing because frankly I don't know enough about the subject to form an opinion one way or the other. in all cases."

    OK.
    And then:
    "To say that everyone would comes out on top if the H1B visa cap were lifted would be a bit naive though"

    You were right in the first case. Shut up.

  • RightNut||

    You don't have any special rights to employment anyway. Its not a us-vs-them type thing. Its you-vs-the-world as far as employment.

  • Randian||

    I now understand to be a true libertarian you must realize that being native born doesn't give you any special rights to employment over foreign born applicants.

    Very good! That's Freedom of Association 101.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Except you assume those jobs would otherwise go to Americans. That doesn't follow. If SSK's friend was able to telecommute from a different state, do you really think it would be some sort of impossibility for him to telecommute from another country? Much the same with Mr. Love. It may be preferable to locate the business activity in the U.S., but there's fewer and fewer reasons, especially for skilled workers, to locate their business activities in any one place.

  • Loki||

    being native born doesn't give you any special rights to employment over foreign born applicants.

    Actually, no, it doesn't. You have no more "right" to a given job than any other person who applies for it. If that means you lose out on some jobs to some "damn dirty ferriner", then so be it. Maybe the "damn dirty ferriner" was better trained/ more qualified than you were. Or maybe they were willing to do the same job for less money. Or maybe they had a better work ethic. Or perhaps all three. Sounds like a personal problem to me.

  • deffmike||

    "You have no more "right" to a given job than any other person who applies for it."

    Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

    "Sounds like a personal problem to me"

    Right, so, I work in tech, which means this I have a personal stake in the outcome of this, and i am guessing you don't, at least directly.

    I'm saying, however reluctantly, that a free market solution works best. Despite the downsides which many of you refuse to acknowledge, the positives outweigh the negatives. I'm not sure what else I can offer in support of that position.

  • johnl||

    Nobody is displaced by H1B workers. One of the greatest benefits of being born in the USA is that other people want to come here. So USAians have the chance to draft befind the best and the brightest from around the world.

  • Hawk Spitui||

    Well, that was because you're a dirty European. If you from Mexico or Somalia like a decent immigrant, you wouldn't have had that problem, would you?

  • Spoonman.||

    I can't imagine not wanting more immigration. Of my four neighbors, 3/4 are immigrant couples (Canada, Vietnam, and somewhere in Africa) who have done well, have nice houses, and have raised children here. Who doesn't want more of that?

  • Rufus J. Firefly||

    Canadians are immigrants?

    Who knew?

    I propose we change the word for us Canucks. C'man! Whaddya say!

    /Vaudeville dance.

  • Randian||

    I think it's time that those of us who are pro-immigration embraced the term amnesty. So I'll say it: I'm pro-amnesty.

    Why? Illegal immigration, like smoking pot, is a victimless crime and a misdemeanor. I would support amnesty for all pot-smokers and an end to Drug Prohibition. I support amnesty for the act of immigrating illegally and the end of Immigration Prohibition,

  • Jordan||

    I'll sign onto that.

  • Mad Hungarian||

    I totally agree that smoking pot is a victimless crime and that we should end drug prohibition. But illegal immigration is by no stretch of the imagination "victimless". In order to stay in this country many illegal immigrants steal identities, ruining others lives in the process. They also, by some accounts, pay only 1 dollar into the system for every 3 they take out.

  • Jordan||

    You're conflating identity theft with illegal immigration. That's like conflating drug war fueled gang violence with selling drugs, aka page 1 of the drug warrior handbook.

  • Mad Hungarian||

    You were the one conflating pot legality to immigration legality. If someone smokes pot they are not directly causing any pain to anyone. In most cases in order to stay in this country an illegal immigrant has to steal an identity. That is direct cause and effect.

  • ||

    Uh, no it isn't direct cause and effect. Coming into this country doesn't automatically steal someone's identity. THAT would be cause and effect. You have yet to even prove a high degree of correlation, let alone the mountain that would be cause.

  • Mad Hungarian||

    If you would read my comments, that is why I have said "in order to stay in this country". Yes, simply coming into this country illegally is a victimless crime, I agree. It is what they do once they get here in order to stay. Have you ever been or lived in a border state? I know it's anecdotal but I have seen people selling documents to illegal aliens and with my high school amount of Spanish was able to determine that at least two employees working under me (when I lived and worked in CA) were using false social security numbers.

  • Randian||

    They also, by some accounts, pay only 1 dollar into the system for every 3 they take out.

    That isn't a crime. And poor American citizens probably do the same thing. Can we deport them?

  • johnl||

    We provide birthright income support to people born here. We can't do that for everyone, everywhere.

  • Mad Hungarian||

    It is a crime for you to take government benefits when you are not entitled to them. Do you think fraud is not a crime?

  • MWG||

    The same arguments could be made for pot smoking.

    They cause accidents.

    They're lazy. By some accounts, they pay only 1 dollar into the system for every 3 they take out.

  • Mad Hungarian||

    Who said anything about causing accidents or being lazy?

  • MWG||

    If illegal immigration is not a victimless crime, then neither is smoking pot based on your argument.

  • Mad Hungarian||

    I don't know how to better explain. If you truly believe that smoking pot and illegal immigration are on an equal plain then I guess I won't be able to.

  • trshmnstr||

    illegal immigration isn't a victimless crime at all. There are tons of people who are either unwilling or unable to illegally immigrate here that are hurt by more strict quotas due to illegal immigration. I'm not saying that said quotas are at all right, but this idea that it's a victimless crime is crap.

  • RightNut||

    That reasoning doesn't really hold water for me. Your saying that by coming here illegally they are causing politicians to enact stricter quotas for legal immigration. That is not the illegal immigrants fault, its the dumb politician's.

  • Mad Hungarian||

    Fix the interpretation of the 14th Amendment, get rid of the welfare state, get rid of minimum wage, and then maybe we can talk about a super easy pathway to citizenship (not for those who came illegally first). Also, this is the way that most countries work. I don't have a degree/special skill/sponsor so I can't easily become a citizen of Mexico, Canada, or name any European country. Why should it be so easy to come here?

  • RightNut||

    Because this is supposedly the land of the free? Just because something is a bureaucratic nightmare in another country doesn't mean it should be here.

  • johnl||

    Land of the free as in lunch?

  • Mad Hungarian||

    All I meant by that is there is no precedent by which to change our current system. Sure it takes a long time and can be difficult but it's the same way everywhere else. I want liberty for everyone everywhere, just where they are and not here.

  • Randian||

    "Get rid of the welfare state and then maybe we can talk about legalizing drugs"

    The existence of the welfare state doesn't mean you get to hold liberty hostage.

  • Mad Hungarian||

    Who are you quoting? And how does pot legalization have anything to do with the welfare state. If we allow a bunch of poor unskilled workers into this country with our current entitlement system our country would collapse. You're right with that last statement (even if it is contextually wrong) but we can't afford to give liberty to everyone by importing them.

  • Libertarius||

    Hey numbnuts--it is the welfare state that holds liberty hostage (and the people who are supposed to pay for the free shit).

  • MWG||

    "Also, this is the way that most countries work. I don't have a degree/special skill/sponsor so I can't easily become a citizen of Mexico, Canada, or name any European country."

    Most countries also have universal healthcare. What's your point?

  • Mad Hungarian||

    What is yours?

  • MWG||

    Are you suggesting we be more like other countries in terms of immigration?

  • Mad Hungarian||

    No, I am saying that there is no precedent for having open immigration and that I don't want people to be able to freely immigrate here when I don't have the same option anywhere else.

  • ex0du5||

    Some libertarians believe that universal healthcare is a prototypical example of defensive government, that defending against organisms that would do harm wrapped in bombers and tanks with a military is fundamentally the same as defending against harm by organisms wrapped in glycoproteins. There is no magic size where defensive government is no longer rightful government. Healthcare obeys the same reasons found in classical libertarian texts on defense, including universal applicability and an economy of scale.

  • SpartanGirl||

    You can't maintain a welfare state and an easy immigration policy at the same time. You should ask yourself how many unskilled immigrants does the country need? If the businesses need cheap unskilled labor then they should ask for more immigration and give people visas but immigrants coming without permission to find work is the "build it and they will come" mentality, it fails. You should ask how the unskilled people coming in droves affect the communities, resources and safety. As a female I don't feel safe around those who come from patriarchal societies. Also, the majority of people around the world can't come to the US because they don't have relatives in the US, they don't have a place to stay, they need to spend a lot of money on airline tickets, traveling etc. they can't just jump from a border. Immigration should be more equal and not favor a specific group of people. While I agree that talented intelligent people should get legal status easier I don't think there is any shortage of H1B visas circulating around. Why should my educated friends who would give everything to live in the US are not given the chance (one of them had to apply for refugee status) but those they live near the US unfairly get the opportunity?

    * just the 2 cents of a legal immigrant *

  • Randian||

    First of all, no, there is a shortage of H1B visas.

    Second of all, the reason that people who live close to here get the "opportunity" to come here is because they live close to here. This is like asking why the teenagers of Anaheim get to go to Disneyland every weekend during summer break but the teenagers of Omaha don't.

    Because they don't live there.

  • SpartanGirl||

    "there is a shortage of H1B visas."
    Say that to the ones in the tech sector and see what kind of response you will get.

  • Randian||

    You should ask yourself how many unskilled immigrants does the country need?

    "The country" is not a thing that gets to violate my rights to free association and freedom of contract.

    You should ask how the unskilled people coming in droves affect the communities, resources and safety.

    Both positively and negatively? I bet that isn't what you meant.

  • SpartanGirl||

    ""The country" is not a thing that gets to violate my rights to free association and freedom of contract."
    What does this have to do with immigration?

  • RightNut||

    As a female I don't feel safe around those who come from patriarchal societies.

    Stopped after reading that.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Dontcha hate it when people from "gender-equality-above-all" cultures like Scandanavia come to our country and try to change our culture?

  • RightNut||

    Just reminds me of the "they are going to rape/steal our wives" bullshit that was leveled at Italian and other immigrants in the last century.

  • Libertarius||

    They got it wrong--it is your wealth, property and liberty they are going to steal, as long as the welfare and interventionist states exist.

  • SpartanGirl||

    Because as a male you never experienced sexual harassment.

  • Free Society||

    Because on the internet you can toss around assumptions.

  • SpartanGirl||

    Check the ratio of male sexual abuse to female sexual abuse then seek mental help.

  • ||

    That isn't a rebuttal of his point. You have no idea what RN has and has not experienced in his life. And now you're trying to move the goalposts by insisting it's about ratios, when your initial claim was about his personal experience.

  • SpartanGirl||

    All of you piling up huh? He didn't have a rebuttal to begin with. He didn't even read my whole post.

  • RightNut||

    I did actually read the entire thing. That particular quote just struck me as particularly strange and ill informed. And if you think they are "piling up" on you, you should see the treatment T O N Y gets around here.

    As for your broader point, the libertarian position on immigration is it should be free and open. So no H1B, H2O, visas at all, just people coming and going freely.

  • ||

    So no H1B, H2O, visas at all, just people coming and going freely.

    Actually, not being a person who particularly enjoys pandemics, terrorism, and human trafficking, I think the enforcement of a border is actually one of the few legitimate functions of the state. What you're describing seems more like anarchism or anarcho-capitalism. But if I'm wrong, I'd be happy to disavow the libertarian label. Not getting my ass blown apart, exposed to drug resistant tuberculosis, or kidnapped and extorted means more to me than a political identity.

  • SpartanGirl||

    Not all libertarians agree on that so it is not the official libertarian position. Ron Paul for example is against birth right citizenship.

  • ||

    Uh, YOU were the one trying (and failing) to rebut his point that you have no idea what RN has or has not gone through.

  • SpartanGirl||

    I don't see him denying he didn't have sexual harassment do you?

  • Libertarius||

    What part of "You cannot have your cake and eat it too" do suicidal open borders nihilists not understand?

    As long as we have a welfare state and government intervention into the economy (most crucially the minimum wage laws and the income tax), America is NOT a "land of opportunity", it is a system to be gamed, left at the mercy of anyone sufficiently dishonest to cheat it. Hiring and paying legal American citizens is a huge PITA, what with all the laws and regulations and income tax compliance, why mess with all that shit when you can just hire someone off the books?

    So contrary to the snark of South Park, they really are "taking your jerbz"-and your money (via the welfare state) and not paying taxes, and the cherry on top is, they will vote this country into the same destruction already observed in the rest of the world (this is why Obozo advertises welfare programs in Mexico--can you imagine a more horrible incentive to present?).

    As I have said here before, the argument that "today is the same as it was 100 years ago with the Italians and others" absolutely does. not. stand. There was no welfare state, no income tax, and very little economic regulations back then. That's why the people who came here did so to work--ask yourself what kind of immigrants we are attracting now. You egalitarian maggots will not realize your folly until the monster you are creating has devoured you.

  • Libertarius||

    Even if the jobs they are taking would be best suited for your teenage sons, it is now your sons who will malinger and rot instead of discovering the independence and pride of work.

  • RightNut||

    You egalitarian maggots will not realize your folly until the monster you are creating has devoured you.

    This stuff again? Do you have like a manifesto or something you are copying and pasting from, or maybe your taking a creative writing class?

  • SpartanGirl||

    Ad hominem.

  • XM||

    So the only way to address the broken "legal" immigration system is to bestow citizenship to millions of illegal aliens who defied that law? Going from one extreme to another, it seems.

    That legal immigration process is obtuse is kind of a moot point, because illegal aliens are pretty much allowed to exist and have a voice in society. They can go to school, go to college (they won't qualify for financial aid in most states) and even find ways to get benefits (gasp). That's not how it is in many nations, even ones like Japan.

    The irony is that the process of legal immigration will stay broken because there's no incentive for any immigrants to reform it. I had to wait over a decade to get my green card and citizenship. During that time, I lived a normal life. I didn't shiver in fear of the police raiding my house to deport me, or the possibility that someone might not serve me food because I was foreign. While you wait years for your green card, you go to Disneyland or do your own thing.

    If legal immigration was literally the ONLY way to get in here, then we might have made some progress. If you're a doctor India who can't get here because coming here legally is too difficult, then no one cares about you.

  • lap83||

    You make a good point that real immigration reform is unlikely if we grant amnesty. Political reform in the country of origin of said immigrants is unlikely too. Mexico loves sending their unhappiest ones over here so they don't have to deal with them.

  • ||

    Mexico's economy also gets a healthy boost from remittances back home from Mexicans living in the United States - it's in the billions of dollars per year. It's like FDI without the messy paperwork.

  • BMFPitt||

    Awesome. Linking to this chart will be way easier than 2 hour arguments.

  • ||

    This chart seems to conclusively demonstrate that the process of legally immigrating to the United States is unnecessarily arduous. I don't see what the natural connection between that fact and the recent plan to legalize several million currently-illegal immigrants would be. Reforming the legal immigration process is not a component of the proposals currently under debate.

  • 34lbs||

    Sup MOTHERFUCKERS, MIXED RACE UNSKILLED (but training) SECOND GENERATION IMMIGRANT IN DA HOUSE. I think i'm going to illegally migrate over to the USA just to piss off all the nativists who comment and read this blog. Fuck ya'll how does that sound. What;s big Boobs about.. i can't be bothered with the Hit & Run commentariat today i have some work to finish.

  • Federale||

    1.2 million legal immigrants a year is not enough for you? In fact we deliberately chose the least productive immigrants by making 85% of immigration based on a family relationship. Then we allow them to go on welfare. Nothing libertarian about that.

    How about auction off immigrant visas? Test for skills, eduction and English language ability? No such suggestions from the so-called libertarians who seem intent on expanding the welfare state. Probably because immigrants bring cool restaurants and drugs.

  • Federale||

    It was also very clever of you in your graphic to decieve people by equating a wait for an immigrant visa for spouses, children and parents of US citizens to equate that with the wait for citizenship. Why did you do that? There is no significant difference between the two. Are you demanding that every alien who arrives be give immediate citizenship?

  • SpartanGirl||

    Good point. A visa is a legal status and the only difference between a resident alien (having a green card) and a citizen is resident aliens can't vote.

  • Dan||

    The main problem with this line of reasoning is that the primary reason the process for legal immigration is so convoluted and lengthy is precisely because we are inundated with illegal immigrants.

GET REASON MAGAZINE

Get Reason's print or digital edition before it’s posted online

  • Progressive Puritans: From e-cigs to sex classifieds, the once transgressive left wants to criminalize fun.
  • Port Authoritarians: Chris Christie’s Bridgegate scandal
  • The Menace of Secret Government: Obama’s proposed intelligence reforms don’t safeguard civil liberties

SUBSCRIBE

advertisement