Because 25 Years for 25 Grams of Percocet Was Not Tough Enough

In a front-page story about Florida's crackdown on "pill mills," The New York Times claims "tougher laws" helped the state close fake pain clinics and prosecute their operators. Anyone who followed the story of Richard Paey, the Florida patient who received a 25-year mandatory minimum sentence in 2004 after filling prescriptions for the oxycodone he needed to treat severe pain caused by a car accident and unsuccessful back surgery, will be surprised by the implication that Florida's drug laws were lenient until recently. Paey, who was released from prison in 2007 thanks to a pardon by then-Gov. Charlie Crist, got that jaw-dropping penalty even though there was no evidence he was selling the pills, based purely on the total amount of oxycodone-containing medication he obtained (more than 25 grams, which is less than an ounce). Even the dubious strategy of charging doctors with homicide when their patients die from overdoses, which the Times suggests will help discourage improper prescribing, is not a new innovation. In 2001 a Florida physician named James Graves received a 63-year sentence for racketeering and manslaughter after four of his patients died from OxyContin overdoses. 

In any case, given the constitutional ban on ex post facto laws, how could legislation creating new charges or imposing new penalties be applied retroactively to pain clinics that were closed before the legislation was enacted? The Times mentions the recent federal indictment of Jeffrey and Christopher George, twin brothers who allegedly operated four pill mills in Broward and Palm Beach counties. "The clinics were shut in 2010," the Times says, "but more than a year passed before the case was built, in part because Oxycodone is legal and the new laws were not in place." What "new laws"? The George brothers and 30 other people associated with their clinics face the usual federal charges in cases like this, including illegal drug distribution, fraud, racketeering, conspiracy, and homicide. The fact that "oxycodone is legal" for medical purposes has never stopped the Justice Department from prosecuting doctors it believed were operating outside the bounds of legitimate medicine.

It seems pretty clear that description can fairly be applied to many of the pain clinics that have popped up in Florida during the last decade or so:

Florida has long been the nation's center of the illegal sale of prescription drugs: Doctors here bought 89 percent of all the Oxycodone sold in the country last year. At its peak, so many out-of-staters flocked to Florida to buy drugs at more than 1,000 pain clinics that the state earned the nickname "Oxy Express."

It is nevertheless disconcerting that the Times casually assumes the guilt of people who have been charged with improper prescribing practices: "Prosecutors have indicted dozens of pill mill operators," it says, "and nearly 80 doctors have seen their licenses suspended for prescribing mass quantities of pills without clear medical need." Not alleged pill mill operators, mind you. If the government says they're guilty, why bother with such niceties?

Here's one reason: Sometimes doctors accused of running pill mills are actually practicing medicine in good faith. Because pain cannot be objectively verified, a conscientious physician who trusts his patients can end up losing his license, his livelihood, and even his liberty if some of them turn out to be addicts or drug dealers. Not only is that unjust; it makes doctors reluctant to prescribe opioids even when they are completely appropriate, resulting in widespread undertreatment of pain. Ironically, given Florida's reputation as the nation's OxyContin mecca, Richard Paey got into trouble because when he moved there he could not find a doctor who was willing to prescribe the painkillers he had been taking in New Jersey. He therefore used prescriptions that he said he got from his New Jersey doctor, which prosecutors said were forged. (Once in prison, Paey received government-approved morphine via a subdermal pump.) So it can be a challenge for legitimate patients to obtain adequate pain treatment even in places where addicts have no problem getting the drugs they want. The more aggressively the government seeks to prevent such diversion, the harder it is for people with chronic pain to get the relief they need.

That angle is completely missing from the New York Times story, which portrays electronic tracking of prescriptions (unsuccessfully resisted on privacy grounds by Gov. Rick Scott) as an unalloyed boon to law enforcement. The Times says "the illegal sale of prescription drugs...boomed in Florida because of the absence of a widely used prescription drug monitoring system and lax state regulations." It logically follows, then, that close surveillance and strict regulations will dry up the black market. Even if these measures are not completely effective, what's the downside? "We recognize what a horrible problem we have," says Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi. "We have, of course, many legitimate, good pain-management doctors. We are targeting the drug dealers wearing white coats." Like every other news outlet fanning the pill-mill panic, the Times never entertains the possibility that the government might confuse these two groups.

More on the conflict between drug control and pain control here.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • Tman||

    Another gentle reminder that the left doesn't give a FUCK about your privacy or your civil rights.

  • O2||

    whoops - the florida gov & legislature are gop. try to keep up

  • Restoras||

    And don't forget that right-wing rag, the NYT.

    It is nevertheless disconcerting that the Times casually assumes the guilt of people who have been charged with improper prescribing practices: "Prosecutors have indicted dozens of pill mill operators," it says, "and nearly 80 doctors have seen their licenses suspended for prescribing mass quantities of pills without clear medical need." Not alleged pill mill operators, mind you. If the government says they're guilty, why bother with such niceties?
  • Tman||

    Hey stupid, did you not see that Gov. Rick Scott was the one resisting the electronic tracking of prescriptions on privacy grounds?

    Try to keep up.

  • ||

    I have read several places that back in the 1960s rich people would literally buy their own pharmacies. And that also there were a lot of "Dr. Feelgoods' who would hand out prescriptions to anyone. As a result, decent people never got their drugs from the street. They actually got pharmaceutical grade drugs from doctors and pharmacies. Yeah, if you lived in Harlem you got your smack in the form of Mexican shoe scrapings from the underworld. But practically no one else did.

    The DEA cracked down on that in the 1970s. And right after that huge drug gangs from places like Columbia started to appear. But the two events couldn't possibly be related. Do these clowns honestly think that people will stop using drugs? Instead, the people who went to these clinics will just become customers for organized crime. What an improvement.

  • RyanXXX||

    At some point, you have to wonder if the supposed "unintended consequences" of prohibition aren't unintended at all

  • Hillary Clinton||

    We can't stop the drug war. There's too much money in it. We also can't stop selling weapons to drug cartels. See above.

  • Mensan||

    I've read that before too. In fact, I read it right here on H&R the last time you wrote it. However, I've never heard of it aside from your comment's.

  • ||

    Back when cocaine was legal, about one person in ten who got curious about it and tried it became a habitual user for life. Now, with it enormously illegal, the same one in ten become habitual users. As penalties have increased over the years, the rate has always been about one in ten of those who try it out of curiosity.

  • ||

    WA, a leftwing nannystate if there ever was one, just passed regulations essentially banning the prescribing of opioids for many chronic conditions. this will eliminate legal access to pain relief for hundreds if not thousands of responsible pain medicine users, out of the fear some might abuse them and overdose.

    it's disgusting

    a hospital (in da hood) i was at recently to interview an assault victim had a prominently displayed sign saying they would NO LONGER prescribe opiates for pain for a # of conditions, and listed - headache, back pain, etc. - basically saying "fuck you" to patients. they are assumed to be drug seekers and will not be helped for pain

    it really is fucking disgusting.

    this is kindergarten shit. let's punish EVERYBODY for taking the apple from the teacher's desk until somebody fesses up

    let's punish MOST pain pill recipients (responsible users) because a small percentage abuses them

    how about THIS? if there's good evidence somebody is abusing the pills, the doctors should be free to cut them off.

    but not until then.

    and if they die from overdose or APAP poisoning (the latter showing them to be morons who don't know how to filter out APAP if they are using high quantities, but i digress), tough shit for them.

    let's not punish legitimate VICTIMS, to try to get to the abusers.

  • ||

    Disgusting is right. I worked doing scheduling for a hospital's home care/hospice department (also in WA) when I was in college, and it sometimes seemed like people were more concerned about potential drug diversion than they were about pain control. It broke my heart. Once patients transferred to hospice they could at least get decent pain meds but you shouldn't have to be dying to be permitted by the fucking state to alleviate your pain.

  • Warty||

    When my 97 year-old great-grandma was dying in a nursing home, they wouldn't give her morphine because she might get addicted. You can't take any chances with those old ladies in fetal positions.

  • ||

    Fucking fuck. The people who make stuff like that happen are really high up on my hate list.

    The hospice classification is weird, but from my limited perspective, useful. The problem I saw was patients who for whatever reason didn't want to cease curative treatments and switch to palliative care were the ones who got screwed. Or they'd wait to switch to hospice until things got really bad and get the pain meds for the last few weeks of their life when they should have had them for months or years. I was an idealistic college kid and I thought treating people's pain would be paramount. Seeing the bureaucracy and government interference get in the way of that was I think a large part of what made me realize I was a libertarian.

  • Zeb||

    Yeah, that is the fucking worst. When I am 90, I want to be a morphine addict, whether I need it for pain or not. Fuck it, at least doing nothing will be pleasant that way. The only real drawback to opiate addiction (assuming you don't have anything important to do, or are one of those people who can be highly functional while doped up) is running out, which presumably wasn't a risk for your grandmother.

  • JD||

    Doctors, especially those in the ER, are completely paraniod about prescribing narcotics, especially to those they suspect might be drug seekers. If the DEA decides you are too liberal with the narcs, they will fuck you up. Thus people who legitimately need them get screwed.

  • Warty||

    Speaking of drugs, dunphy, I found this awesome video from the clean & press and Dianabol era. It's amazing how much different they looked back then.

  • ||

    yea, they were definitely (on average) more muscular in the triathlon (clean and press, clean and jerk, and snatch) era. imo, several reasons why

    1) more drugs (testing nonexistent or in its infancy
    2) more upper body pure strength training for the press (dips, press, etc.)
    3) prior to the change where the bar was allowed to touch the body, lifters needed to rely more on upper body strength, since they couldn't bring the bar as close to better utilize the stronger muscles of the hip complex
    4) an emphasis (especially amongst americans, who started to lose for this reason, among others) on pure limit strength vs. speed strength, reactive strength, etc.
    5) bob hoffman's influence
    6) did i mention drugs?
    7) some lifters ALSO did strength feat exhibitions, powerlifting, and even bodybuilding comps as WELL.

  • Warty||

    Is that Hoffman in the suit at the end?

  • ||

    btw, the lifters in our era who tend to be more muscular are those in the russian school (higher reps, more assistance exercises) e.g.

    Klokov
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

    who is a fucking monster...

    and the chinese use a similar methodology

    those in the bulgarian school not so much

  • ||

    Well, a lot of actual pain specialists are recommending that opiates be avoided for people with chronic pain. People using opiates over time tend to develop tolerance and the meds become less effective. People can also develop rebound pain when they have been on the meds long enough. The science of pain control is moving over to different medications. If the experts are changing their recommendations, is it that surprising that the providers are following suit?

  • EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy||

    Pain specialists who care about their patients (and I've met those who do not) recommend that patients try the other avenues first to preserve the effectiveness of opioids for later on. The need for large does isn't a huge problem except for the regulatory issues, because when they need the large doses they can tolerate the large doses.

    They don't suggest not using them when they are the only drugs that will work. And if you don't have someone in that position that you care about, now might be a good time to think carefully about what you're going to say on this subject.

    Opioids are still the pain relievers of last resort, and if my loved ones suffer because of politicians meddling where they do not belong there will be hell to pay.

  • ||

    exactly this. simply put , and especially for TRAUMA type pain, etc. opiates are the most effective

    by far.

  • ||

    Opiates are still the best pain management system we have at this point. The reason "experts" are changing their minds is that the government has decided that anything that makes you feel good is a fucking criminal product.

    But hey, good to know you're on their side.

  • ||

    i don;'t think the personal attack is justified, but hey i realize this is reason.

    however, you are correct. nothing works better than opioids for many types of pain

    obviously, the first goal is to eliminate the source of the pain, but that's not always possible.

  • ||

    Well, no, actually research on the changes at the level of the neuron of people with chronic pain have driven the changes in recommendations. There is a big difference between how a neuron functions in acute vs. chronic pain. Scientists/physicians are now studying neuromodulation as a way to reduce pain, and treatment algorithms are beginning to reflect this.

  • ||

    AND this research may result IN THE FUTURE of better non-addictive pain therapy than opiates.

    at the present time, opiates are the best hth

  • Paul R.||

    That's because of the laws....nothing will replace opiates, their cost effectiveness and their safety will never be matched....I have taken a mild opiate for 10 years all together(have stopped for years at a time though) and once I learned a little about tolerance I found out how to keep from developing one...I often don't have to fill my script for weeks after I am permitted to and they have made my life worth living...that 89% of the oxy is brought from FL is a strong indicator how hard it is too get pain control everywhere else

  • Paul R.||

    Not sure about this but I think I read that more people die falling down stairs than OD on oxy......www.opioids.com(good research site)

  • Zeb||

    Or better yet, let's not punish anyone for their choice of intoxicant when they are harming no one but themselves.

  • ||

    This.

  • ||

    OK, I'm going to get some flak for this, but I need to point out that the statement "more than 25 grams, which is less than an ounce," has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

    Oxycodone isn't prescribed by the gram, it is prescribed by the milligram, typically in 10 to 30 mg pills, and up to 80mg extended release pills. If he was getting 25 grams, that is the equivalent of 25,000mg. That is a huge amount of oxycodone.

    This doesn't mean that I agree with the feds--I don't. This doesn't mean that some people don't need huge amounts of pain meds--often they do. But, in all honesty, he was getting extremely large amounts of oxycodone. This article makes it seem like it was a trivial amount.

  • Gibby||

    Yup. That's 312 80mg extended release pills. Seems like a lot.

  • sarcasmic||

    Some insurance companies require prescriptions to be filled in three to six month quantities.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    This.

    Mine requires that I get Rxs in 3 month spans. Am I a criminal for having to follow the regulations of my insurer as a means to keep costs down?

    Unfortunately, none of my Rxs are fun, unless "making sure your heart doesn't go to hell" is considered a good time.

  • ||

    MLG: Am I a criminal for having to follow the regulations of my insurer . . . ?

    GOVMT: Yes! Any other dumb questions?

  • ||

    Paey was in extreme pain, asshole, and he needed a lot of pills. But clearly, that means nothing to you.

  • Greg Newburn||

    James,

    In Florida, the weight of the entire pill - not just the amount of the Oxycodone - is used to determine weights for trafficking.

  • ||

    which is retarded, because for example with percocet (not percocet extra strength), the breakdown is

    5mg oxycodone
    325 mg APAP

    that's a 65:1 ratio (dosagewise) of APAP to oxycodone

    3 percs and you are looking at 1 gm total (approx)

    about 90 to an ounce (ounce is 28.8 grams)

    it's totally common to get prescribed between 30-50 units.

    common

  • sarcasmic||

    What you call retarded others might call convenient.

  • ||

    Which backs up my original point, that the statement of "less than a gram" has actually no meaning in terms of what he had available to him.

  • cynical||

    While undermining it insofar as he might not have actually had all that much oxycodone.

  • ||

    My late elder brother was busted for growing pot in Marshall Co. Mississippi in about 1976. The police made a huge deal out of the "thousand pounds" of pot confiscated--a figure they arrived at by pulling up whole plants and weighing them stalk, roots, and dirt.

  • Paul R.||

    People with chronic pain often become afraid with the current state of affairs that they will be cut off from effective pain control...more than likely he was stockpiling to ensure he would have time to find a new doctor if something arose with his present one

  • Zeb||

    If I recall correctly, Paey had Percocet, not oxycontin. So he really didn't even have that much oxycodone, since each pill has 1/2 gram of APAP. He was basically busted for an ounce of Tylenol which is why this case in particular is so outrageous. If he had had 25 g. of oxycodone pills, that would be a shit load of drugs, but even then, there is no maximum safe or necessary dose for opioids, so it could be a reasonable amount for someone to have.

  • Gojira (formerly Jim)||

    I'm not sure why addicts seek out oxycodone anyway. It's really not very good for "entertainment" purposes, esp. when other items are almost as readily available on any streetcorner (or so I've been told).

  • ||

    Uh, it's fucking awesome for "entertainment" purposes, Jimbo. You should try it some time.

  • Gojira||

    Uh, Epi, no it fucking isn't. Which is why I still have half a bottle left after a year, because it just isn't that great as other readily available substances.

    Maybe for amateurs like yourself, who are unused to mind-altering substances, the bare-bones reactions of those pills seem like an awesome trip. Best leave the good stuff for us adults ; P.

  • ||

    It was you who was talking about MDMA a while back, right? I so need to know the kinds of people you know.

  • Gojira||

    School teachers Dagny, public school teachers. Best sources on the planet.

  • RyanXXX||

    ATF agents

  • EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy||

    That's for guns.

  • ||

    You have to crush it up. That defeats the time-release mechanism so it hits you all at once. Snorting the powder also produces a more powerful high.

  • ||

    Just because you don't like opiates doesn't mean some others don't, Jimbo. Can I have the rest of your bottle?

  • Gojira||

    If I give it away, and then the person I gave it to gives me $50 purely out of the goodness of their heart the next day, do I still go to jail?

  • DEA||

    Yes, for 25 years.

  • ||

    there are also many ways (check out any # of resources) to significantly potentiate (enhance the effects) of opiates

  • Gojira||

    "potentiate" Did not know that word. Learn something new every day.

  • ||

    Hey, I've had four spinal surgeries over the past decade and used and been denied nearly every kind of pain reliever. Maybe it's just me, but Oxycontin does nothing for me recreationally and I have a hard time figuring why anyone not in pain would go to any trouble to obtain it.

  • ||

    most of the people using oxycontin recreationally are defeating the time release aspect.

    if you are getting, for example, a 10 mg oxycontin, that's 10 mg of oxycodone released continuously over about 12 hrs. iow, not a lot.

    otoh , somebody snorting all 10 mgs at once will get a more intense high

  • Warty||

    I can't wait to start dying so that I can get milk of the poppy. You know nothing, Jimbo.

  • Gojira||

    Tony has some milk of the poppy he'd like to share with you...

  • ||

    OT: What do you think he meant by "dreamwine"? Just really strong wine, or with some additional sleep aid?

    (The Arrested Development quote about the "winking eye alcohol suggestion" would be perfect for this stupid but fun blog.)

  • Warty||

    STEVE HOLT!

    I think some additional depressant is implied.

    "You talk about Aerys, Grandfather, but you were scared of him.”

    Oh, my, hasn’t this gotten interesting? Tyrion thought.

    Lord Tywin studied his grandchild in silence, gold flecks shining in his pale green eyes.

    “Joffrey, apologize to your grandfather,” said Cersei.

    He wrenched free of her. “Why should I? Everyone knows it’s true. My father won all the battles. He killed Prince Rhaegar and took the crown, while your father was hiding under Casterly Rock.” The boy gave his grandfather a defiant look. “A strong king acts boldly, he doesn’t just talk.”

    “Thank you for that wisdom, Your Grace,” Lord Tywin said, with a courtesy so cold it was like to freeze their ears off. “Ser Kevan, I can see the king is tired. Please see him safely back to his bedchamber. Pycelle, perhaps some gentle potion to help His Grace sleep restfully?”

    “Dreamwine, my lord?”

    “I don’t want any dreamwine,” Joffrey insisted.

    Lord Tywin would have paid more heed to a mouse squeaking in the corner. “Dreamwine will serve. Cersei, Tyrion, remain.”
  • ||

    Is THIS what I'm missing?

  • ||

    I gathered that it was diluted milk of the poppy, although he never really says IFAIK.

    There is also a herb/poison called sweetsleep. It could also be a tincture of the herb, mixed with wine for flavor.

  • ||

    That is what I inferred but I couldn't recall if he was ever explicit.

    I am 80% through DwD and I cannot wait to talk about it with people.

  • ||

    The Axis of Glib stands ready for you.

  • Gojira||

    The epilogue, Arya, and Manderly were the only parts of the book I really cared for.

  • Warty||

    All I'll say right now is that I wish I had started reading the goddamn series 10 years in the future after that old bastard finished it. He better not Robert Jordan the rest of it.

  • ||

    I think the more relevant question is "will he BSG it".

  • ||

    I think it would be cool if they are turned out to be angels. All angels.

  • Gojira||

    You could write a slashfic for Fat Lord Manderly and quiet, thin-lipped Roose Bolton.

  • ||

    Or all Cylons.

  • ||

    Robot angels...

    "and all watched over
    by machines of loving grace."

  • Warty||

    "It's ghouls, I tell ya. Religious ghouls in rockets looking for a land to call their own. Don't you laugh at me! I know a spell that will make you show your true form! Cave rat taught it to me."

  • Greg Newburn||

    The 25 year mandatory minimum is triggered by 28 grams of painkillers. 25 grams gets you 15 years MM.

  • ||

    there are some other factors, the drug warriors often don't consider

    in addition to tolerance built up over longterm USE (not abuse, but USE), some people simply need more opiates to get an equivalent analgesic effect.

    more muscular people, for example (myself included) often do need more opioids to get an equivalent effect.

    a 100 lb woman, post surgery, on average, will need less than a 230 lb mesomorphic man, ceteris paribus, given the same surgery.

    more muscular people also (obviously) suffer more muscular trauma in the exact same surgery, since they HAVE more muscle to be cut through and disturbed.

    DEA very closely scrutinizes dosages of C-II (oxy stuff) and less closely C-III (hydrocodone etc.) and if they see what they think (by formula) is "overprescribing", they audit. kind of like the IRS. they look for patterns.

    GOOD doctors will adjust opioid scripts based on patient feedback. mine did, after my surgery. but many fear (justifiably) DEA scrutiny and just prescribe cookie cutter amounts and no more - patient be damned

  • ||

    In addition to tolerance built up over longterm USE (not abuse, but USE), some people simply need more opiates to get an equivalent analgesic effect.

    Fuck, why can't all LEO's understand this.. The bodies of people who are in pain metabalize opoids in a diffferent way than those recreational users. My udnerstanding was that Florida, you stupid fucks, ended up putting Paey on a morphine pump when the put him in jail. I'd be willing that if I took a dose of whatever he was being given would either kill me or severly fuck me up. Why? My body isn't in pain, I'm scrawny, and I don't regularly, or irregularly use opoids.

  • ||

    many fucking DOCTORS don't even accept this, or at least not to the extent that they will modify dosages significantly.

    the good ones will, but many won't

  • Zeb||

    Unless they are surgeons or some other specialist that actually does something to you, doctors are fucking useless.

  • ||

    I hope everyone one of you Florida registered voters fucking suffer until they die, you stupid cocksuckers. I hope you writhe in pain with endless tears.

    God this is one fucked country. To let a 97 year old woman suffer because she might become an addict.

    I dont exactly get what is wrong with being an addict. Assuming you can responsbily hold down a job and pay for your drugs, what's the fucking point? I am pretty addicted to air, food, and water, and masterbating, but I am not inclined to kill people.

    Fuck you Florida, I hope you all get anal or testicular cancer. Stupid fucks.

  • ||

    i had a (in her teens, sadly) relative who was dying of cancer and they eventually sent her home with a machine (dilaudid iirc) that she could simply press a button to put more into her system

    she was fucking dying. why should anybody care if she was addicted?

    that's the compassionate thing to do.

  • ||

    The compassionate thing to do, and the only one that isn't morally reprehensible to a Satanic degree, would be to get the fuck out of people's lives. Whether it's DeShawn Johnson from the Projects fuckin' bitches and doin' crack, or Granny Gertrude getting addicted to morphine, it's nobody's fucking business.

  • Warty||

    You've been pre-PWND.

    9 of 70 people found the following review helpful:
    1.0 out of 5 stars Amusingly Simplistic, May 15, 2000
    By A Customer
    This review is from: Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do : The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in Our Free Country (Paperback)
    i find much of the book's central argument to be absurd. i am left wondering if any research or thought has gone into it at all. neither drug dealing nor drug use is a victomless crime. ever seen a mother abandon her children in favor of coke? it ain't pretty and it is very much the business, not only of myself, but of all Americain citizins. if rich white people want to play revolutionary i suggest volunteering their time at a rehab center.
    Help other customers find the most helpful reviews
    Was this review helpful to you? Yes No
    Report abuse | Permalink
    Comment Comments (3)
  • ||

    Yeah, liberty is bad. The idea of living life without letting other people dictate to you what you may or may not ingest is horrifying. I hate these fucking people with their justifications for tyranny.

  • Zeb||

    Do people like this think that it is not possible to be an asshole and mistreat your family without drugs? The drugs don't make you do anything. If someone abandons their children, charge them with neglect, not cocaine possession.

  • ||

    who did the old comedy routine about cocaine, where it goes

    "the great thing about cocaine is that it intensifies (enhances?) your personality?"

    "yea, but what if you are an asshole?"

    lol

    but nobody is saying one can't abuse/neglect kids w/o drugs.

    they are saying that (and i agree. i'm just against the WOD) being addicted to and abusing (which is not the same as using) some drugs are goign to make you more likely to engage in neglectful abusive behavior

    i don't care if it's fucking alcohol or meth.

    that's simply how i see it

    it doesn't therefore follow that we neeed a nannystate and a WOD since
    1) they don't eliminate addicts/abusers ANYWAY
    2) the attendant civil rights abuses, etc. are a worse 'cure' than the underlying problem

    but all other factors remaining equal person A who is addicted to (some) drugs will be more likely to abuse/neglect their kid than if they weren't addicted.

  • Zeb||

    Oh, I certainly agree that certain drugs are quite likely to be associated with poor parenting and horrible family situations. My point is that the neglect is just as bad whether it is because of drug addiction or just being a shitty person. The punishment should be for the abuse/neglect, regardless of why the parent made the choices they did.

  • ||

    right.

    that's exactly how i feel.

    fwiw, if you are NOT a parent, i especially could not give a flying fuck what drugs you choose to use.

    heck, i think we'd probably be better off as a society if we gave people "passes" to use "hard drugs" if they agreed to a longterm implant that would render them sterile for that time period.

    we would have less fucked up kids, that's for sure

  • ||

    right.

    that's exactly how i feel.

    fwiw, if you are NOT a parent, i especially could not give a flying fuck what drugs you choose to use.

    heck, i think we'd probably be better off as a society if we gave people "passes" to use "hard drugs" if they agreed to a longterm implant that would render them sterile for that time period.

    we would have less fucked up kids, that's for sure

  • Pope Jimbo||

    Troy,

    Better watch your chicken choking habit dude. It can be deadly

    Won't his mom be proud when they pass a law - named after him - mandating that all teen age boys leave their doors open at all times.

  • Brett L||

    I guess I don't understand why Florida, down on regular tourism, also wants to kill pill tourism. Do they not buy enough bed nights to cover the cost of their murderous rampages or what? (Florida makes a significant portion of its revenue off of bed taxes in hotels and motels.)

  • Greg Newburn||

    Anyone sufficiently outraged by Florida's laws in this area should check out FAMM's Florida project: www.famm.org. Thanks!

  • Amakudari||

    Pain clinics in South Florida were often frequented by "patients" from such nearby states as West Virginia, who would receive scripts for hundreds of Vicodins and Oxycodons.

    God, drug warriors are idiots.

  • ||

    In 2007 Perdue Pharmaceuticals was convicted of a felony along with three executives of the company and fined $634 million for promoting the use of Oxycontin®.

    http://www.hcpro.com/LFS-74458.....ontin.html

    In 2010 CVS agreed to pay a fine of $75 million and to disgorge $2.6 million in profits for promoting the manufacture of street meth:

    http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/l.....-meth-fine

  • Lyn||

    There is still too much bias against narcotic pain meds and those that have to take them just to survive. I've worked for personal injury attorneys and their clients. So many people get permanently injured in auto accidents or at work and have to take narcotic pain meds for the rest of their lives.

    It is so easy for a patient to be dropped by a judgmental doctor - or even worse by that doctor's judgmental nurse or office manager. People are so prejudiced against narcotic pain meds. Government and especially law enforcement in FL and elsewhere only worsens the situation.

    There is no rational policy out there. There are even doctors - many of them - that are paranoid about being raided by state or even federal law enforcement. I'd rather have people abusing these drugs than have them denied to people who suffer so much without them.

  • ||

    From now on, any cop who comes to the ER in pain gets a Tylenol and instructions to "cowboy up."

GET REASON MAGAZINE

Get Reason's print or digital edition before it’s posted online

  • Progressive Puritans: From e-cigs to sex classifieds, the once transgressive left wants to criminalize fun.
  • Port Authoritarians: Chris Christie’s Bridgegate scandal
  • The Menace of Secret Government: Obama’s proposed intelligence reforms don’t safeguard civil liberties

SUBSCRIBE

advertisement