'It Should Look Good on YouTube': The Anti-Harless

Here is a video that the Canton, Ohio, police department might use to train its officers in handling legally armed citizens. Like Canton's Daniel Harless, Matthew J. Lyons, an Oceanside, California, police officer, is a former Marine, but the similarity seems to end there. Judging from this video, in fact, Lyons is the Anti-Harless.

Lyons approaches a man who is openly carrying an unloaded handgun in a holster, which is permitted by California law. Lyons checks to make sure the weapon is unloaded, then returns it to the owner, acknowledging his right to carry it. He is polite and professional (cordial, in fact) throughout the three-minute encounter, even when the man says he has no ID and declines to give his last name. Nor does Lyons lose his cool when he notices that the man, who identifies himself only as Jeremy, is recording the encounter. "Well, it should look good on YouTube," Lyons says. "I'm the first one to be an advocate for that." It's not clear whether Lyons means the right to bear arms or the right to record police encounters, but either way he makes no attempt to interfere. He adds, "Make sure you get a good picture of me so you know exactly what I look like, because you've got a statement to make here. I'm all for that." At the end he shakes the guy's hand, saying, "Jeremy, thanks for your cooperation, and remember: My name is Officer Lyons with the Oceanside Police Department. My badge number is 1093. God bless America."

 

Lyons is the author of a book about the Oceanside Police Department.

[Thanks to Adam Kokesh for the tip.]

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  • Almanian||

    +1776, Officer Lyons!

    AND NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED!!!11!!!1one!

  • Joe M||

    Damn it! I was running to this thread to type that.

  • Paul||

    Goddamnit... beat me to it. Well played sir. Well played.

  • Alan||

    Damn straight! Wish there were more cops like Officer Lyons!

  • emmajane||

    Perhaps this is the real 'isolated incident'? I hope not. Hooray for Officer Lyons.

  • fish||

    I feel compelled to serve a nice hot steaming cup of blah!

    Crappy cop (Mr Isolated Incident!...that guy is everywhere) fired after costing city $400K. So they got him...but it was expensive.


    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/......DTL&tsp=1

  • Dello||

    I...

    I don't believe it....

  • emmajane||

    I wonder if he's a reason subscriber?

  • ||

    Hahahaha. You can tell the cop was a tiny bit nervous. I'm not sure if he would have taken no last name if the camera wasn't running.

    Still, pretty good showing.

  • ||

    Somehow I imagine his professionalism didn't start with the camera rolling, but probably his knowledge of actual law and law enforcement and his belief that he is there to keep the peace, not beat it into submission.

  • ||

    I think any time you're approaching someone you don't know who is carrying a weapon you should be a tiny bit nervous at least.

  • Almanian||

    This is very good counsel

  • ||

    I know I am, every single time I get close to a cop.

  • ||

    Just for the record, Oceanside is probably the most dangerous part of North County too...

    There's a lot of prostitution (It's hard to believe you'd find a lot of prostitution around a Marine base, but believe it or not...!), and there's plenty gang activity, etc.

    Congratulations to the Oceanside police department.

  • ||

    Depends on what part of Oceanside. Vista, especially West Vista is gangland. If you go up into the San Luis Rey area up to the north-east part of the county, yeah it's ghetto. Stay along the 101 and you're fine.

  • MNG||

    You mean he's using professional, courteous behavior to engender respect to back up his authority and not a nightstick beat-down or quick tasering? What's this guy thinking?

  • Joe M||

    Some people still recognize the difference between respect and fear, thankfully.

  • fish||

    What's this guy thinking?

    Don't know. I'm thinking he's due some "retraining"!

  • ||

    What's this guy thinking?

    If only there was a way his employers could reward effectiveness through some sort of meritocratic compensation plan. I can't remember, are unions fans of this or would they prefer that a guy be paid for the number of years he has dragged his ass into work?

  • yonemoto||

    you could buy his book.

  • MNG||

    Funny, if his superiors wanted him to be more hardassed and were out to get him a union would be one of the few things protecting him. Weakening police unions would simply empower police administrators, if you prefer that you'd have to somehow believe that the kind of person who rises up the ranks in a big government bureaucracy shouldn't have his hands tied by things like CBA's.

  • Jersey Patriot||

    You don't understand, MNG. The government is a fount of myriad evil and constantly seeks ways to screw people over, but it would never do that to its employees.

  • ||

    if his superiors wanted him to be more hardassed and were out to get him a union would be one of the few things protecting him.

    If his superiors wanted to reward his competence with merit pay a union would be the one thing protecting him from this too.

  • ||

    Horseshit, the union would be first in line to denounce him as "A rogue cop who endangers his fellow officers with his refusal to follow orders."

  • ||

    police officer, is a former Marine

    Not to denigrate police who have not served, but some of the most professional security professionals I've met have been ex-military*. They seem to be able to handle stressful situations and understand people's reactions better than those who have not. Maybe its just a coicidence, but I think not.

    *just personal experience

  • Paul||

    I remember an article on reason years ago that detaild the account of an embedded reporter's experience in Iraq.

    The gist was that the real marines and soldiers were relatively respectful of the population, especially careful to avoid civilian casualties and felt genuinely remoreseful when they occurred. It was the reserve troops which were cops in their day jobs who were aggressive, kicked doors in and shouted profanities at every civilian they encountered.

  • some guy||

    It was the reserve troops which were cops in their day jobs who were aggressive, kicked doors in and shouted profanities at every civilian they encountered.

    If it's good enough for Americans, it's good enough for Iraqis.

  • ||

    Yeah, that later became the basis of the show "Generation Kill", which I would highly recommend to anyone wanting to see a more reality-based show about Marines.

  • Paul||

    Good catch.

  • Alan||

    Yes. I agree.

  • Mo||

    Part of it is because they've dealt with actual threats and realize that a kid using an iPhone and carrying a holstered gun is pretty low on the threat scale.

  • fish||

    That asshole from the previous topic thread was ex-military. I'm seeing cracks in the theory!

  • ||

    Hey, I was just saying. Maybe its like Paul says and depends on if you joined to serve or joined for the college money.

  • Alan||

    I was in the National Guard, in South Carolina and Illinois. The South Carolina National Guard was pretty awesome - professional in the ways that mattered, easygoing about the rest. Illinois had one of the most generous programs in the U.S. for college assistance: full tuition paid for four years at any state college; and they had the lousiest soldiers I've ever seen. I could count only a dozen decent soldiers out of a battalion.

  • Paul||

    Apologies for second threadjack, I want to make sure as many eyes see this as possible:

    Threadjack:

    Did Reason cover this elsewhere? This seems huge to me.

    You can be convicted of Sarbanes-Oxley violations on your home computer.

    The agents asked the suspect if they could see his computer to confirm his story, but the suspect replied that they could not: When the suspect learned that the feds had dropped by, and when he realized that they were investigating him for child pornography, he had decided to destroy his hard drive. He “didn’t want to take any chances” of going to jail, he said. According to his brief, he had smashed his hard drive with a hammer, ran a magnet over it, and “thr[ew] the pieces out of his car window while driving.”

    The feds apparently lacked the evidence to charge the suspect with possessing child pornography, but instead they charged and convicted him under a 2002 statute passed as part of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, 18 U.S.C. 1519:

    Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
  • MNG||

    "of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years"

    What...the...f*ck? With all of those "or"s and "any" they just snuck an all-purpose 20 year tampering charge into an accounting practices bill.

  • some guy||

    Yeah. You can't delete ANYTHING from your computer now without putting yourself at risk under this law.

    I wonder if searching in Incognito mode qualifies too?

  • Interstate Commerce Clause||

    Not sure why you of all people are objecting to this...

  • smz||

    eh. doesn't seem that huge.

  • Paul||

    That SarbOx applies to your home computer? Insignificant. Tiny. Why, not even worth thinking about.

  • ||

    Sadly, I think many of us are getting used to the idea that the state can imprison us at will for trivial and technical violations of any of the millions of pages of "laws" legislators shit out each year.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Most people are unaware of things like this.

  • Jerry||

    Does the FBI know there is such a thing as a search warrant?

  • FBI Banditos||

    Search Warran.....We do't need no steekin search warran.....

  • Paul||

    To the FBIs credit, they didn't search his computer without a warrant. He wasn't even charged with anything.

    My guess is that the suspect used magic words when talking to the Feds (which as we all know, one should never talk to the cops). For instance, had he said, "Oh yeah, I had a virus on my computer this morning to I formatted and reinstalled Windows" or, "The hard drive crashed so I had a data destruction service take care of it, why do you need to know?"

    I'm guessing that the suspect indicated he was aware that he was being investigated (described knowledge that the data was the subjectd of an ongoing investigation) and knowingly and willfully destroyed the data because of it.

  • Greer||

    Well since you decided to take Balko's place, I'll say it

    PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Almanian||

    Jesus. Fucking. CHRIST!!!

    GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

    FUCK!

    I hope Sarbanes and Oxley roast on the 1,486,276,983,900th level of hell for all eternity for that fucking abomination they brought forth. Yes, it is that bad. Fuck you both. And fuck the FBI. And the police. And California (just cause).

    That is all.

  • Paul||

    I believe that either Sarbanes or Oxley has disavowed the legislation.

  • Coeus||

    Too little, too late. Just wait til Zed gets here. He'll know what to do. "Go get the gimp."

  • Greer||

    "He's sleeping".

  • Coeus||

    Well I guess you gon have to wake him up now won't ya.

  • Jersey Patriot||

    I heartily recommend Three Felonies a Day for more tales of infuriatingly vague crimes, most of which are "incoveniencing a prosecutor".

  • Byron||

    Just finished reading it last week. It was even more nutpunchy than I had feared.

  • ||

    Silvergate includes a whole chapter on the Arthur Anderson indictment that helped spawn SOX. And the Martha Stewart BS too...

  • johnl||

    I'll to show this to my friends and ask if they have ever been arrested by this guy.

  • ||

    It's pretty sad when common courtesy and non-dickishness (or worse) from the cops is so rare and remarkable. There is a cop who directs rush hour traffic near my office (letting cars know when it's safe to come out of a parking garage, etc.) and she always says a friendly "hello" or "have a good evening" to the people walking by. (Insert requisite: "And nothing else happened" here.) She represents the only non-awful experience I have ever had with law enforcement, despite the fact that I have never dealt with them for anything worse than speeding.

  • Paul||

    That's why she's directing traffic. She's not up on her quotas.

  • Sudden||

    I'd say what Officer Lyons did rises well above non-dickishness and into outright saintly patience. Look, as much as I believe a person should have the right not to give their last name to a police officer if they're not violating the law, its a reasonable courtesy to ask in order to verify the legality of one's open carry. The guy being detained here, while not acting in a hostile manner, is very short in his responses to officer and offers as little information as possible. The officer handled the situation with aplomb and grace, despite the interviewee's easily recognizible standoffishness. While I don't think the average cop would be so friendly in the situation (and his level of friendliness in spite of all that makes me think Officer Lyons might be an Oathkeeper), I think on average most cops aren't Harliss either.

  • ||

    The guy didn't gesticulate wildly or fail to comply with the officers orders. He may have acted agitated, but then again, I'm agitated the moment an officer walks up to me nowadays, not sure if I've done something to piss him off and get myself tazed or whatnot. An officer's duty is to keep the peace within the law and this is a rare officer that did so.

  • ||

    I have always been of the opinion that the onus to be patient and polite should be on the cop. They are the one at work, and we are ostensibly their customers. Nobody applauds when a retail employee calmly deals with a rude customer, or when I answer a brusque email from a client with a pleasant and informative one. It's just grown-ups acting like grown-ups while at work.

  • BakedPenguin||

    It's just grown-ups acting like grown-ups while at work.

    When you put it that way, it does sound kind of hard.

  • yonemoto||

    verifying the legality of open carry? It's legal. Period. And the law states that you don't have to give any information, except to verify the chamber is empty.

  • ||

    at the same time, its so uncommon that I imagine the officer HAD to question the guy as half the neighborhood was freaking out.

  • Sudden||

    A general response to all three comments here. Yeah, open carry is legal period, but I believe it is not if you have a prior felony conviction. I do think the officer could have pressed that point.

    And yes, the guy wasn't being wild or failing to comply with the cop, he was perfectly within his rights. And yes, the officer should bear the responsibility to be civil regardless of the circumstances.

    But I think the fact that this particular officer not only remained cordial and friendly, but seemed to go out of his way to be warm with the guy (let's be honest, the officer has no responsibility to be friendly, a simple matter of fact manner without any emotion is probably perfectly acceptable for us as long as he's being just). This officer wasn't just doing his job, he seemed to embrace the guy he was talking to, and I suspect, he sympathized with him.

    I'm fairly convinced he's an oathkeeper, and if not officially, at least in spirit.

  • ||

    I just looked up the Oath Keepers, and per Wikipedia, the Southern Poverty Law Center thinks they "may be a particularly worrisome example of the Patriot revival." LOL, SPLC. You keep that whole credibility thing up, ya hear?

  • Sudden||

    I'm not surprised. But you get my point then. A strictly professional way of handling the situation would be accepting the legality of it and moving on without any emotion or involvment. In this case, the officer went well beyond that and embraced a guy who was, from his own demeanor, likely expecting the worst. He shook his hand.

    Maybe he played to the camera a bit, but I think when its all said and done, he agreed with what the guy was doing.

  • ||

    Yeah, you're right. He didn't have to be nearly as "individual rights are awesome!" Similar to me vs. some of my more statist colleagues, when breaking bad tax news to clients, it's hard to hide the fact that I happen to agree that it sucks the gov't is stealing their money, vs. coldly telling them they need to pay up.

  • ||

    I don't usually congratulate people for merely doing their job properly. But Lyons is getting a thank you note, and a coupon for two dozen Krispy Kremes.

  • Matrix||

    Now THIS is an isolated incident. But keep up the good work Officer Lyons.

  • ||

    Oh, he'll be driven off the force soon enough for not holding the thin blue line.

  • Police Union||

    ENFORCEMENT'S HERE

  • Pip||

    I think it's the thin blue lion (or maybe thin blue lyin').

  • Sudden||

    thin blew lion

  • ||

    A retired Marine after 22 years, even if he was enlisted would still have a pretty nice retirement. I could imagine he could give a shit less if he gets fired for not meeting quota or WTFE.

  • Sacre Bleu||

    Why do you americans always feel the need to carry your guns when you go visit your hotdog carts and big box stores?

  • ||

    Why shouldn't we?

    Why do the French voluntarily smell so bad?

  • alan||

    He's not French. The 'oh, how quaint' implication of his delivery probably means he is a dirty, rotten anglophile.

  • ||

    Oh, Sacre Blew, can't you do better than that? Why are our trolls so fucking awful? Why can't we have LoneMoron back? Where is Dick(head) Hoste? And where in hell is DONDERRROOOOOOOOO?!?

  • Libertarians4Freedom Fries||

    What about me!!!111!!1!!!1!!

  • BakedPenguin||

    Exactly. Exactly.

  • ||

    Obvious thought is obvious: why don't they get you to do the Friday Funnies? Being that you're actually, you know, funny?

  • ||

    You never fail to entertain, BP. Dagny is right; why aren't you doing the Friday Funnies? Then their name won't be a blatant lie anymore.

    I love the shriek picture. It literally struck me as perfect the instant I saw it; I knew it was shriek even before I read "Bushpig Christfag".

  • Hugh Akston||

    Hercule Decathlon Capslock is epic lulz.

  • ||

    I lul'd. But, I imagine in real life that HTS would actually be wearing a costume.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Thx, all.

    Dagny - I did the Friday Funny Alternative for a few weeks. It was just hard keeping up, and I didn't want to wind up doing stuff of sub-standard quality.

  • CoyoteBlue||

    To keep the British king at bay.

  • robc||

    50% of all english "King Charles" have been beheaded.

    It might be why the current Prince of Wales might be willing to skip the title.

  • ||

    You know, I could ask why people like you (I'm assuming you're European) want nice and easy, single-sentence answers to such questions, so I'll just give an alternative reply, the same I always do with obnoxious statists, to keep it shorter than a book: because we're free people (at least we're supposed to be), and we can.

    That, and as another point, basing everything you do on need is probably one of the most ridiculous and asinine codes you could possibly follow. What about "want"?

  • FBI Banditos||

    Aren't you late for a surrenderin to the Germans.......

  • Pip||

    "Why do you americans always feel the need to carry your guns when you go visit your hotdog carts and big box stores?"

    Two words: Rogue Cops

  • Restoras||

    Oh, I dunno, why have you French thrown your hands up in surrender at every opportunity since 1815?

  • What about||

    World War I?

  • Restoras||

    Fair point, but it wasn't exactly a resounding success.

  • Hmm||

    Maybe the defining difference is 22 years in the Corps? God knows after that long you sure as hell learn the definition of respect.

  • Sudden||

    Officer Lyons HAS to be an Oathkeeper. He seemed not only to not have a problem with the guy he was interviewing, but seemed downright sympathetic to him.

  • GILMORE||

    I suddenly have this strange feeling of pride in the essential goodness of America, and want to go hug a cop.

    (glances at headlines about debt 'debate')

    ...Yeah, I'm going to need to watch that about once an hour for the rest of my life to keep that feeling going.

  • fish||

    ....and want to go hug a cop.

    Don't do man....you'll get tazed!

  • NoVAHockey||

    Would it have been a problem if the gun was loaded?

  • robc||

    Probably not, open carry is open carry.

  • ||

    In California, carrying a loaded gun will fuck your shit up big-time. Unless this Lyons guy is willing to risk his job, he would have confiscated the gun and arrested the Jeremy dude. That's how far into Shit's Creek California, among other places, has sailed.

  • ||

    in california, I'm going to imagine the answer is very much "yes"

  • robc||

    See dunphy, this is why Harless should be fired, because doint it right isnt so fucking hard.

  • ||

    we just disagree on harshness of punishment

    i don't think a first time assault IV defendant should serve jail time either.

    or a first time DUI

    mebbe i'm just a bleeding heart.

  • Coeus||

    Quit conflating jail time with your job. Every cop does it with that give him "due process" crap whenever one fucks up. You have no right to a job.

  • ||

    but my point is that *i* think that getting fired is worse than (for example) a 6 month jail sentence. if i had a choice between the two , i'd take the latter (if i could keep my job).

    people who aren't cops don't understand this. it's a calling, and it's who you are.

    if you are fired from almost any other job, you can still do that job. at least in my state, if you are fired for misconduct, you can't

    i think if you try to actually understand where i am coming from, you might not agree but it will help you understand

    as civil servive public employees acting under a collective bargaining agreement and the police officer's bill o' rights, we have substantial right to due process as well, btw.

    you may think that's lame as fuck but it is what it is

    we give up a lot of freedom to become cops, put ourselves through a lot more scrutiny, and (much like the military) operate under a restrained set of rights in many respects vs. non-cops.

    i can get in trouble for merely associating with the "wrong" people off-duty.

    or being drunk in public (which isn't even a crime in WA), etc.

    i think the cop in the previous case is fucking up BIGTIME and deserves firing if he's done anything of the sort before, just like a think a 2nd DUI conviction should get at least a week in jail.

    but i think a first time "offender" in what he did should face harsh punishment but not firing

  • Coeus||

    people who aren't cops don't understand this. it's a calling, and it's who you are.

    No, we get it. Most of ya'll have your personal idendity and cock size all mentally wrapped in your authority and weapon. It's a nice substitute for the mentally weak and emotionally stunted, but you're not entitled to it.

    Besides, how can you take pride in a job with lower standards of behavior than most others?

    if you are fired from almost any other job, you can still do that job. at least in my state, if you are fired for misconduct, you can't

    As it should be. But you can always get a job in another state. Scumbag cops do it all the time. How often do we hear about police misconduct and it turns out he was already fired for it somewhere else? I'm not so sure about the first part of your sentence, though. You think other jobs don't check with your previous employer?

    i can get in trouble for merely associating with the "wrong" people off-duty.
    or being drunk in public (which isn't even a crime in WA), etc.

    So can a teacher. So what? They'd be fired for conduct like this.

    as civil servive public employees acting under a collective bargaining agreement and the police officer's bill o' rights, we have substantial right to due process as well, btw.

    you may think that's lame as fuck but it is what it is

    You're damn skippy it's lame as fuck. Public sector unions are a cancer, as you've just amply demonstrated.

  • ||

    brah, if this is the kind of troll'ish rhetorical crap you come back with, you aren't interested in rational discussion, so what's the point?

    "No, we get it. Most of ya'll have your personal idendity and cock size all mentally wrapped in your authority and weapon. It's a nice substitute for the mentally weak and emotionally stunted, but you're not entitled to it.

    Besides, how can you take pride in a job with lower standards of behavior than most others?"

    seriously, there are so many absurdities, falsities, stereotypes, etc. you sound EXACTLY like a leftist who is claiming that RKBA advocates are just using their gun as a penis substitute.

    it never ceases to amaze me the way reasonoid bigots engage in the exact same kind of stereotyping, bigotry, falsehoods, and logical fallacies that hardcore leftists do. they just do it with different topics. for you, it's cops, for them it's corporashuns

  • Coeus||

    I'm annoyed that you give more weight to a cops opinion of themselves than you do the safety and sanity of the people he's supposed to be "serving and protecting". I show this with snide comments and insults. It's what I do when I don't think a portion of an argument is worth serious discussion. It's a statement on what you value, and I'm not going to change your mind. You know this. I'm suprised that by now you don't just mentally insert "I disagree".

    However, I did address your other points, which you ignored. The only fault I'll cop (hehe) to, is giving you an excuse to ignore them.

    seriously, there are so many absurdities, falsities, stereotypes, etc. you sound EXACTLY like a leftist who is claiming that RKBA advocates are just using their gun as a penis substitute.

    Except that RKBA advocates don't threaten to "blast you in the mouth". Sounds like a cock substitute to me. We're talking about why this guy shouldn't be fired, and you bring his self image as a reason. He's definitely using it as a cock substitute, and you feel his self image is valid.

    it never ceases to amaze me the way reasonoid bigots engage in the exact same kind of stereotyping, bigotry, falsehoods, and logical fallacies that hardcore leftists do.

    Stereotyping, yes. It's useful when you encounter someone you don't know who is legally allowed to kill you with minimal pretense (aka LEOs). And as far as I'm concerned, his actions and your disagreement that he should be fired justify using it.

    You're probably the most rational cop I've ever spoken to and I've talked to a lot. I used to spend every summer at the courthouse growing up, and your rationality is the reason I sometimes mentally question whether you're actually a cop. If you don't think that this guy should be fired, then my apparent bigotry is actually justified.

    So stereotype yes (cause it's useful), and no to all the others. You're just typing words to round out your sentence, without addressing the majority of the comment.

  • ||

    again, what this boils down to is that we both think this guy acted like a total asshole and should be severely disciplined.

    i, however don't think it's egregious enough to warrant dismissal WITHOUT OTHER ACTS IN HIS BACKGROUND.

    and of course i view police firing as a much more serious thing than you do.

    how many jobs do you know where people would view being sentenced to 6 months in jail as LESS serious than being fired?

    actually sit back and think about that.

  • Coeus||

    In this economy? A shit-load. Most jails are like summer camp. Prison (general population, of course) would be a different story. But even in a booming economy I can understand wanting to hold onto a job that allows you operate above most laws. I'd imagine you'd get used to that kind of power pretty quickly. And the ability to think "I protect people, how dare this sheep question me" whenever you're clearly in the wrong is probably a bonus, too.

  • ||

    oh cmon. it's this crap. "operate above most laws". do you really believe that crap?

    yes, cops can get away with speeding (to an extent), and a few petty things. otoh, they can get jammed up for entirely legal shit that non-cops can do with impunity, and all sorts of stuff automatically makes them suspect. you just look at things in a very one-sided way.

    its like these memes about the media being total cop fellators, whereas most cops think all the media do are portray cops in a bad light and look to misrepresent their words and actions

    the truth is in the middle, but just as many cops ignore all evidence ot the contrary, so do you. you think they can do shit with impunity and not face consequences when the reality is they are constantly in a fishbowl and even innocent behavior that could have the appearance of impopriety can get them jammed up

    how many guys do you know who get disciplined at work for calling some woman "a bitch" who made a verified false complaint against them

    one thing we can agree on.

    video is a great thing. i want bad cops punished and good cops protected and video helps both

  • Coeus||

    how many guys do you know who get disciplined at work for calling some woman "a bitch" who made a verified false complaint against them

    Any job in the service industry. And again, you're conflating legal trouble with on the job disipline. That takes a great deal of entitlement. Quite frankly, it's not very libertarian of you.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    people who aren't cops don't understand this. it's a calling, and it's who you are.

    if you are fired from almost any other job, you can still do that job. at least in my state, if you are fired for misconduct, you can't

    Dunphy, I don't dislike you and appreciate your take on these situations, but all I can say to that is "boo hoo, cry me a fucking river." There are lots of jobs where screwing up can means you can't do that job again. Doctors, lawyers, anything licensed pretty much. Somebody gets kicked out of the military for screwing up, well, they don't get another chance, do they? It might be their "calling" but they still have to move on and find something else to do.

  • ||

    that's actually pretty funny. doctors are very analogous to cops ... it's actually a near perfect analogy.

    both view themselves and are viewed by most people as "special". the media has a metric assload of shows following the endlessly fascinating actitivies of cops and doctors (ER, etc.)...

    most docs are good people doing tough work reasonably well.

    some are incompetent boobs and some are malicious fucksticks.

    officer caused deaths PALE in comparison to iatrogenic deaths, but the former are more sexy and public

    bad docs can and do falsify reports to cover up their errors.

    most people have immense respect for docs and cops.

    their jobs both require extensive special knowledge (school/academy)and on the job training (residency/Field training)

    both careers have a fair # of people who think they are better than other people and that nobody understands them

    both deal with a lot of tragedy and they both are great at black humor.

    both are very successful with the women (i've played in a band, been a little sister chair in a frat, and been on a surf team... cops do really well on the wimminses front)

    surgeons are like sWAT cops. in many ways.

    diagnosing a patient is a LOT like doing an investigation. the synthesis of often conflicting evidence/info/signs/symptoms, the ability to weight disparate factors, the recognition that we operate from a position of limited knowledge and diagnosis is often wrong (at lesat initially), the often serious consequences attached to our decision, etc. etc.

    one could go on for hours, but i think the analogies are very close

    also, doctors tend to get away with far more shit than you are giving them credit for.

    both cops and doc's are also forced to do a lot of shit out of fear of CYA'ing (see:defensive medicine) and their bureaucratic overlords.

    there was a study (iirc FBI law enforcement journal) i once read that compared last year residents to urban cops with 5 yrs experience and said there were a lot of parallels, including the knowledge base and requirements to synthesize rather extensive horizontal knowledge base and stuff that was never like "the book"

    great analogy, actually

    thanks for bringing it up, despite your lack of intention to

  • ||

    oh also. the good docs are first and foremost, good people persons. with exceptions for certain academic or specialty positions, the first job of a doc involves working with actual people.

    this is true of (most cops) also. few things are more important in day to day policework than people skills. reading people, relating to them, de-escalating, etc.

    interview/interrogation skills are key. some cops are just great at it. makes a huge difference

    and diagnosis/investigation is also an art form.

  • Coeus||

    Christ, dunphy. You know it's illegal to masturbate in public, right?

  • ||

    nice retort, but the analogy is sound.

    i don't worship doctors, btw. i just see them as strikingly similar to cops, both in elements of the job and in how society looks at them

    polling data also confirms them amongst the most respected of professions

  • Coeus||

    Doctors don't pull shit like that cop, and if one did, and another doctor claimed he should be able to keep his job until he did it to yet another innocent person, I would consider both doctors morally corrupt. Thank god that never happens. I'd hate to be "bigoted" against doctors, too.

  • ||

    doctors pull all kind of shit (some doctors) just like (some) cops. the difference is the latter is often in the public eye. a bad doctor can be just as harmful and/or deadly as a bad cop.

    again, we can wank all we want, but all we really disagree with is the severity of punishment he should get AND with the understanding that we rank firing for a cop differently in our perception of its severity.

    i really see this as much wank about nothing. we agree this is TOTALLY unacceptable and he deserves harsh punishment

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Jesus, man. That's quite a screed. Did somebody get into the evidence locker again? ;)

    The cop/doctor comparison thing is interesting and all, but I don't see what difference it makes. Doctors can be fired or lose their licenses for incompetence (often effectively ending their careers) even if they didn't break the law. Why should it be different for police?

  • ||

    both can be fired for not breaking the law.

    duh

    heck, my agency has fired a few for dishonesty during an investigation. that is one thing we have ZERO tolerance for.

    if you are being investigated, you lie (no matter how minor) and they can prove you lied (by clear and convincing evidence), you... are ... GONE

    again, what i am saying is this guy is being a major asshole in this vid and if he has done it BEFORE... he should be FIRED.

    if this is the first time he has done it, he should be severely punished and advised he does anything like it again... he's again

    mebbe i believe in redemption, second chances, etc.

    this isn't like a paul schene incident. i said that guy should be fired. no ifs, ands or buts. and criminally prosecuted. and both happened.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    I think the problem is that you view the firing of a police officer as some sort of punishment, and you're trying to fit it into a disciplinary hierarchy. It's not a punishment. It's how you get rid of somebody who just proved beyond a doubt that he isn't fit for the job.

  • ||

    yes, i do

  • Apogee||

    the good docs are first and foremost, good people persons.

    Wrong - the good docs are those that keep their patients alive. If I'm in the hospital, I'm there to get better, not to make friends.

  • ||

    the vast majority of the time doctors aren't making life/death decisions. sure, in a life-death decision that is true, but that isn't the bulk of what happens.

    Just like the best cop is the one who can take out the bad guy and not get shot or not let somebody else get hurt by him, but that's a tiny percentage of the time.

    And like i said, docs cause a lot of iatrogenic deaths.

    My point is that day in day out, the work of most doctors is a PEOPLE job, just like the work of cops.

    Having the ability to effectively communicate, have empathy, establish rapport, effectively interview, effectively impart information etc. is very important, for cops and doctors.

    I guess i am distinguishing stuff that falls in the low risk high frequency part of the matrix.

    My point is that patients are people first and foremost. They are not a set of signs and symptoms

    Similarly, for a cop , these are real people, not just cases.

  • Apostate Jew||

    Doctors and cops analogous?

    Right, because it takes so much training to become a cop. What is it, something like 16 or 20 weeks at the Academy?

    Get over yourself.

  • ||

    way to completely miss the issue.

  • Apostate Jew||

    What did I miss?

    Doctors are very well trained, expected to put the patient's needs before their own, often held responsible for their life and death decisions and punished for incompetence.

    Police are cursorily trained, supposed to "serve and protect" citizens but mainly look out for their personal safety, hardly ever held responsible for their "mistakes" and almost never punished for incompetence.

    Apart from this, they're analogous because it's a calling and it's hard and stressful and your feelings would get hurt if you got fired.

    Again, I say, get over yourself.

  • Apogee||

    the vast majority of the time doctors aren't making life/death decisions. sure, in a life-death decision that is true, but that isn't the bulk of what happens.

    If you're talking GP, then maybe, because most simply just do routine examinations. If they find anything, then they usually consult a specialist.

    That's what I'm talking about. I know many specialists who are complete assholes - zero bedside manner. I think someone made a television show based on that idea. Maybe it happens more often than random chance?

    But you know what? If my life depends on their making a diagnosis correctly, then I want the one who does the best job over someone I can grab a beer with. (Note that it doesn't have to be one or the other - that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that the bedside manner is absolutely secondary regarding my health.)

    The best cops are those like this guy in the video - he knows what the military is, and what it isn't. He also seems at first glance to be smart enough to understand that he's not actually in charge (meaning that our Constitutional rights are in charge - at all times), and at the same time capable of knowing what constitutes an actual threat to other people, not simply his authority.

  • ||

    Not just firing, Harless should spend the rest of his life in prison and his family should lose any and all pension benefits he had.

    You want a job carrying a gun and having the power to kill or imprison citizens then you should be held to a standard of 0 errors.

  • ||

    lol

  • johnl||

    I wonder if this is College Blvd a mile north of the 78.

  • ||

    It is.

  • ||

    looks like it's on that slight slope stretch headed south before you hit Waring Rd. The rest of College is a shit bunch of turns and high-grade slopes.

  • ||

    looks like it's on that slight slope stretch headed south before you hit Waring Rd. The rest of College is a shit bunch of turns and high-grade slopes.

  • ||

    It's pretty incredible, isn't it? In the places you can still categorize as good or above on the freedom and prosperity scale in this country, people can carry loaded guns. We're the only country in the world where free men still retain the freedom to be everyday, walking nations unto themselves. For all the dying the republic's been doing for the last 150 years, that's still the truth: how many Eurofaggots can say the same thing?

  • Pete||

    Eurofaggots

    Nice. You lose credibility by the minute. Keep digging.

  • ||

    You know you're free to insult me back, right? There's nothing that can constrain that, and rightly so.

    I wasn't aware insults deducted credibility. I'll be sure to keep it in mind the next time a Limey flings an empty bottle of beer at my head while proclaiming the eternal damnation of all Americans and how we deserved everything we got on 9/11.

  • Sudden||

    And to add irony to idiocy, I bet the beer than brit threw at you was some pisswasser American-style lager type (although possibly a Carlsberg). We do british ales better than they do these days.

    The only Euros that get my beer respect anymore are the Belgians.

  • ||

    Sudden, it was you who wanted to hear about the Stone Smoked Porter a couple weeks ago, right? I went, I drank, and while it was perfectly tasty, I happen to think Alaskan's is better.

    I was in Toronto last week and it seems the craft brewing revolution is just starting to take off in Canada. There were fewer choices with less exciting offerings, but I did try one I'd recommend: Big Butt Smoked Dark Ale.

  • Sudden||

    Ironic mention considering I actually put a Stone Smoked Porter in my fridge this morning to enjoy later tonight. I was debating on whether to have the sublimely self righteous or the smoked porter tonight to follow my Trappistes Rochefort 10, but figured that I'd save the SSR for a hotter day.

  • ||

    I have a quadrupel in the fridge for tonight too! Trying out The Reverend from Avery Brewing.

    You sir, have excellent taste in beer. Please keep us updated with what you are drinking (although I suspect your beer store has slightly better selection than mine).

  • Sudden||

    Btw Dagny, you discover any other new gems during the festival? I saw a lot on that list that looked worthwhile. And I'm planning on a little beer shopping tomorrow at my bottle shop, so any recommendations are greatly appreciated.

  • Restoras||

    Have you folks tried Three Philosophers, from Ommegang?

  • Sudden||

    Not yet, but actually have it sitting in the cellar right now. Thought about cracking it for Belgium Day last night, but opted for a pranqster instead.

  • Trespassers W||

    Three Philosophers is intense. I have to be in a serious beer mood for that. (This is opposed to my regular, jovial beer mood.)

    On a separate note, I'm generally a big ol' beer snob, but I recently discovered that I LOVE micheladas, at least the recipe I was using: Negra Modelo + one lime + salt + two dashes Tobasco + two dashes worcestershire. Is this wrong?

  • Sudden||

    Is it wrong? Nah. Negra Modelo is probably the finest Mexican beer. And I've actually been hoping they have it available at the all inclusive I'm stay at for my honeymoon. I'll have to give the micheladas a try if they do it. Otherwise, I'll be loading up some cans of my own (tenfidy, dale's, anything else good i can find in a can) so I have at least one quality beer a day.

  • ||

    Stone had a really good Russian Imperial Stout aged in bourbon barrels that I think I liked even more than the smoked porter, but I haven't seen it in stores yet.

    For something totally different, I also liked the Sour Willy from a brewery I'd never heard of from Portland (New Old Lompoc). It really was sour and refreshing, kind of in that Rodenbach Grand Cru sort of way.

    Then there were some Polish beers that were surprisingly good, but they had Polish-y names that I cannot remember.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    Anything from New Old Lompoc. Deeeeelishus!

  • Stretchy||

    The Boulevard "Long Strange Tripel" is definitely worth trying. I believe they also made a quadrupel at one point but, I may be thinking of something else. If you're into sour beers, head to PDX and swing by cascade barrel house.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    Next time in PDX will do. My wife and I flew there in April for shits & giggles, and fell in love with the restaurants and bars. There is some good eating and lots of booze in that town. We're planning a return trip in the Fall, and are already charting our gustatory course.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    Dagny if I wasnt married...of course, I married a very libertarian, wine loving, belgium beer enjoying, tall, woman...i got it pretty good come to think of it. BUT if I WASNT married...

  • Sudden||

    Kaiser Wilhelm once said:

    "Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."

    Thank Flying Spaghetti Monster he never met Dagny, for we'd all be typing in German had he.

  • jasno||

    Belgians? BELGIANS? You think Belgians know how to brew beer? Fucking Eurofaggot...

    Belgians don't brew beer... they make rotten, sour brews with subtle hints of earwax and rectum. You can even taste the undertone of fecal matter.

    Stella Artois... Chimay.. it's all the same shit.

    While I'm at it, fuck west-coast ales, too. "Hey, let's make a shitty ale and add a bunch of hops to cover up how bad it is!" Fuck you and your lack of brewing skills. You know, all those hops will make your balls shrink. "Oh, I've got a great idea - let's make our shit beer shittier by smoking it.. or aging it in a barrel.. or adding fruit.." Jesus, people will drink anything if you tell them it's fancy.

  • Sudden||

    What
    The
    Fuck

    Seriously, calling Chimay the same shit as Stella? Dude, that's the end of the conversation right there. You can't call some pisswasser green glass lager the same thing as friggin monastary made strong ale, dubbel, or tripel.

    Rotten? sour? Ok, so maybe saison ain't your style. But BSA, BDA, and dubbels/tripels, nothing sour about the style. Yeasty, bready, malty. Sure. But sour? Maybe a saison, the occassional note of sour in the farmhouse ale, and yes lambics/krieks/geueze ok. But fuck man.

    What exactly do you drink?

  • Restoras||

    PBR, is my guess, or maybe Hamm's.

  • Upgrayyed||

    Who invited the limousine liberals? Beer elitists.

  • ||

    they probably drink it with some arugula on the side!!!

  • fish||

    Hey PBR is my guilty (and blissfully cheap) pleasure !

  • ||

    Sudden, don't be keepin' the workin' man down with yo intellectingtual talkings about them alcohols, brother. Speak the language of the proletariat, mah man!

  • jasno||

    Coors Light :) at least when I'm trying to numb the dull ache of a Balko-Nutpunch.

    Right now I've got a bunch of Lightning Brewery(local, just like Stone) in the fridge, but the wife bought it(never, ever send your wife to buy beer...). I like Lightning - they've got a good Hef. But, sure as shit, the old lady fell for the smoked, barrel-aged bullshit so now I've got something to fill the snail traps with(assuming the snails are trendy, and like smoked, winey beers). Don't get me wrong, I love a decent port, but not a beer masquerading as port.

    I liked fat tire for a while, and Alaskan Amber, because they're decent, flavorful brews with balanced hops and you don't feel like shit the next day. Yes, hangover inducing ability is a major factor in how I rate beers. I'll give Stone some credit - their beers are pretty clean, just way too hoppy. I went through that phase.. cleared a keg of Stone PA last summer, and that ended my patience with bitter, floral, soap beer.

  • Trespassers W||

    Yes, hangover inducing ability is a major factor in how I rate beers.

    Well that would explain why you don't like Stella. I can get a hangover off Stella before I finish the pint.

  • Sudden||

    Fair enough. You'll note how I didn't get offended about the hops comments. I realize that overhopped IPAs are a taste some dig and others don't. I like IPAs, but I also love grapefruit juice. My palatte digs bitter to large extent. As for smokey, again, it's not everyones taste. Its a character I like in some beers, but I realize its not a heavily drinkable quality.

    I only got offended at Chimay = Stella thing. Everyone has their own tastes. Some people whom I highly respect in beer terms just don't like notes of Belgian ales. But comparing it to a pale lager just causes my to go into STEVE SMITH mode.

  • ||

    Ha. jasno, you hate everything I love in beer. A chacun son goût (just to crank the Eurofag up).

  • Sudden||

    I will out Eurofag you with obscurity:

    Ieder zijn eigen smaak
    Ik geef de voorkeur Gulden Draak

  • jasno||

    F-U-C-K...

    "President Barack Obama has stated that Yuengling is his favorite beer"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuengling

    Yuengling, FWIW, is some of the finest suds that have ever graced my palate. It doesn't travel well though, so drink it near the source. I tried it in Buffalo once and it just wasn't the same.

    Really though, what the fuck is wrong with a nice, refreshing, balanced, simple german style lager?

    Incidentally, Stone is planning on opening a brewery in Germany, because, from what I've heard, the eurofags are starting to like west-coast IPAs.

  • Sudden||

    Nothing wrong with lagers. They have their place. I had a Czech shwarzbier last night (Krusovice) before capping the night with a pranqster. I like a good Marzen sometimes. Hell, even a finely balanced pilsner can hit the spot. But I love the bready quality of belgians the most. Just my thing.

  • ||

    I almost never drink, so maybe my opinion is worthless, but I happen to agree with our August president on this one: Yingling is pretty good.

    August is fine, just as long as doesn't go past October! Yuk, yuk.

  • ||

    Maybe he thought you meant gay fags, and not statist fags?

  • ||

    Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. Well, it's up to him to catch up on slang.

  • ||

    Dude, lighten up on the Euro-bashing and the "fag" shit. Europeans are no more a monolithic unit than Americans are, and some of them are libertarians too. And some fags are libertarians as well, and I don't mean the Harley rider fags, because they can't be libertarians as they have no respect for the fact that their incredibly annoying noise should stop at my ears, but doesn't.

  • ||

    I liked the tangent. Added credibility to your comment.

    In another thread, I just mentioned how much I generally like people from the so-called Western nations. And I think they generally like us, too. It's hard for us to understand how frustrating it is to depend on another country's goodwill, stability, and ability to make correct decisions to the extent that our friends and not-so friends have to do.

  • ||

    Either way, I use the term liberally, and I don't mean for it to imply that all Europeans are assholes or statists. I just find it's a nice, single-word insult that's been highly effective in causing rage in all those that ARE a) assholes and b) statists.

    An alternative form is "Eurofaggotry", which describes the European nations/mindsets beyond individual shitheads.

  • ||

    Socialist cunts is the preferred term. Miss Manners is clear on this point.

  • ||

    Yeah, but that won't work, because the ones that aren't proud of being socialist and being called socialist are at least friendly to it. It doesn't enrage.

  • ||

    That's why you have to append socialist with cunt. Cunt always enrages socialists.

  • ||

    Hey, a combo!

    "Eurofaggot socialist cunt". Wow! What a punch!

  • Eurotrash is the polite term.||

    this group includes everything from the elite socialist politicians to the soccer hooligans.

  • ||

    Nice. You lose credibility by the minute. Keep digging.

    I don't see any lost credibility. It's important to use words in their proper context.

  • Gilmore, via iPhone ||

    Well, he has a point. The vast vast majority in europe are so used to the idea of The Ubiqui-State, and find the idea of the Right to Bear Arms ludicrous in conception and even more so when exercised. Calling them faggots is not very nice, but a little contempt is understandable

  • Zuo||

    Know where else its true?

    An East Coast African country...

    ...plus a bunch of other repressive Mohammedian distopias.

  • ||

    He said with "freedom" AND "prosperity"

  • Sudden||

    I believe that Zuo was just trying to get us to drink. My conversation with Dagny was probably making him thirsty, so he pulled the Somalia trigger.

  • alan||

    Given my state this afternoon, to comply with the Hit'n'Run bylaws, I would have to drink between my drinking, subgulp between my gulping.

  • ||

    drop a shot of svetka in with that Coors. done deal.

  •  ||

    Lyons is the Anti-Harless.

    And Sullum is the anti-Balko.

  • jasno||

    Can we get this story re-posted after every Balko-nut-punch? The knot in my stomach has relaxed enough to eat lunch.

  • Jeff||

    Fucking pig.

  • Greer||

    sorry, that's not the meme this afternoon. Come back on Monday.

  • Greer||

    I don't see this point here so I'll make it. Lyons looked to be a good guy and probably would have done well anyway, but it very well might be the camera that contributed to his performance. That is why there should always be a camera watching these guys. Those guys maybe beat Rodney King 5 times with a camera but not 20 (or whatever it was). Any impulse this cop had to be dick was put in check by the camera.

    And also, he could smell a setup right away. He knew this guy was looking for a dick cop so he could record it and make a stink.

    Well done, Lyons, hope you always are so professional.

  • Gilmore, via iPhone ||

    Hey asked him straight up if the reason for parading around w the gun and then taping his stop was a "statement"... And he said "I'm all for that". I doubt that was something he said "for the camera" I doubt few of his peers, or california voters, share that sentiment. I think very few cops would announce their names and badge numbers under any circumstances. Everything about the guy struck me as 100% sincere

  • ||

    "officer buck savage... damn glad to meet you."

  • GILMORE||

    actually I was also thinking of the Sheriff from Jim Thompson's "Pop. 1280" one of the best "good cop" gone wrongish stories ever written. "Bad Lieutenant" had nothing on that stuff.

    But seriously, this was a heartwarming event, and I know that its the thing that you've been talking about as far more normal than the baddies.... but no one advertises the good guys. It does help sometimes.

  • ||

    i appreciate that. btw, buck savage is a famous law enforcement character and a very funny guy, actually.

    http://www.jdbucksavage.com/da.....drunk.html

  • ||

    I must say, in the 5 years I lived in Oceanside, the PD has always been professional and courteous whenever I've had to deal with them. I think they understand that in a military town, a lot of the population is either former or current military and probably not going to cause them any grief. OTH, I have seen them in full SWAT gear in some rough neighborhoods.

  • jasno||

    I guess you've never been shot by Officer Frank White?

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.co.....woman.html

    Incidentally, the victim(and I use that loosely, since she was driving drunk with her son in the car) just won a civil suit against the city:

    http://www.cbs8.com/story/1513.....e-shooting

  • ||

    No, and IIRC, the woman was attempting to get away. The officer's story was that she was trying to run him over. If that was the case, I can't really blame him for shooting in that situation.

    Either way, I said my experiences.

  • ||

    i used to surf oceanside a fair bit. never had a problem with the cops there. a guy i went to college with did get cited for open container once for drinking at a beach park, but it was well signed that it was illegal and the cop wasn't a dick about it.

  • ||

    yeah, if you get a chance to go back there, try and get a day pass to camp pendleton and surf Del Mar. You have no clue what you're missing north of that jetty during a south-west swell. best spot in SD county.

  • ||

    but then again, I'm a sponger and the drops are usually pretty fucking steep. pretty steady 5-7' a-frames. perfect for bodyboarding.

  • ||

    a "sponger". we refer to spongers as 'speed bumps'

    but seriously, i used to live hawaii and i have seen bodyboarders do some SICK stuff in the barrel and they can drop in way later than us. total respect.

  • ||

    Yeah, that's the usual meme from west-coast surfers. I just let it roll off unless they try to snake me.
    With the exception of the big wave surfers, I've never seen the surfers out when it's double overhead or bigger, only the pretty core body boarders.

  • ||

    i moved to hawaii to surf, so my conception of "big" is bigger than what californians think of as "big". one of my best friends in high school was a kneeboarder. he took some shit too.

    riding waves is cool. sport of kings. however you do it

  • ||

    "riding waves is cool. sport of kings. however you do it"

    Unfortunately, this was not the prevailing mindset amongst most of the surfers I knew in California. Most of them seem to do it only to be flashy. The Hawaii transplants were all cool as shit, though. supposed to be taking a trip out to Hawaii this winter to meet up with a friend at Sandy's.

  • ||

    the difference between hawaii surfers and california surfers.

    first of all, california surfers wiggle their butts. more style, less wiggle.

    second of all, in hawaii, it's about making the radical situation look easy. calm in the face of the storm.

    in cali, it's more about trying to BE radical, which sometimes translates to wanky "trick" surfing vs. power surfing with soul and style

    granted, the former is more doable with big waves that have power.

    i love the guys like tom curren (back in the day) occy, martin potter, etc.

  • ||

    I'm all into style. I'm not quite light enough to pull off anything more than a rollo or a spin or two, even with a bigger board. Nothing, flashy, just love to get tubed, nothing come close to that sensation.

  • ||

    i have SO many favorite spots in san diego. i love blacks. really nice tubes. and a nude beach (wax gets in my pubes, though).

    I like seaside reef, too.

  • ||

    yeah blacks is the shit if it's a descent swell, but it's not very good for spongin', so I stayed away. Swami's was always pretty kick ass and lit pretty well at night. South Ponto in Carlsbad was my secret hide-away spot. The peer by Imperial Beach was always pretty sick. Any day where there was a crowd and big waves, I'd have to take Del Mar Joe's, though; too good to pass up the cheering crowds alcohol, and a roaring jetty

  • ||

    i just HATE crowds. i used to LOVE surfing martha's vineyard in MASS for that reason. i LOATHE crowds.

  • ||

    I meant crowds on the beach. Crowded waves are Teh suck. That's what was cool about surfing on base. about 20 miles or so of coast to choose from. The best waves and little jockeying.

  • ||

    up in ventura county, my dad had a pass to port hueneme etc. those are some good uncrowded waves. i also surfed oxnard which is supposed to be a death wish, but if you don't have a bright wetsuit, don't bring a crowd, don't act like a fucking wiggly val and show some respect (especially to the gang members) i never had a problem.

    i used to hike in to the ranch a lot up in Santa barbara

  • ||

    Huge fan of ventura county. Never had much of a chance to surf up there. Just loved some of the beaches.

  • ||

    yup. there are still a lot of spots up there that are uncrowded. when the conditions get good, there are some phenomenal cobblestone points

  • ||

    Of course in a military town, the cops do have to remember that giving the wrong person grief could result in the cop being in a world of hurt.

  • ||

    as long as they aren' those military guys in the faggy white uniforms trying to tell us how to do OUR job...

  • ||

    I recall on one occasion this big brawl between some sailors and Marines at my friend's apt complex. They must have sent half the PD to cut off the cul-de-sac. After filing the reports and what-not they were extremely respectful and asked us to please call if we needed anything again. Then again, half that PD is retired/former military.

  • ||

    yea, i would expect in such a military town that a lot of cops are ex-military. where i work we have a lot of ex-military.

    the mma fighter who is a good friend was a brown water sailor, though!

  • ||

    Most of those dudes, especially seabees, seem to have some inferiority complex when they're around Marines. Fleet Corpsmen are probably the only navy dudes who get serious respect without acting like dicks.

  • ||

    i train with a guy who was a ranger and it;'s kind of funny the rivalries. he rags on navy guys, especially the seals.

    we have a LOT of former marines. they tend to gravitate towards SWAT and stuff like that.

  • ||

    I don't even mention being former military in public anymore. Someone always wants to turn it into a dick-measuring match and it's really fucking annoying.

  • ||

    there is a similar thing with muscles. i used to be a skinny surfer/runner/cardio freak. now, i am a competitive strength athlete

    first, people assume big muscles = dumb. a stereotype that persists

    or that you are some sort of guy looking for a fight.

    interestingly, ON THE JOB, i find that muscles combined with "firm yet fair and friendly" means you can avoid physical force FAR more often. people simply don't challenge you that much at all.

    it's just amazing the way people stereotype muscle, just like military or think you are looking for a fight or whatever.

  • ||

    Yeah, same here. Used to be a pretty strong runner, pretty ripped up legs and used to 6k calories a day for the good surf sessions. Now I stick to the gym and doing lifting. It's amazingly difficult to avoid the roid-raging meatheads down here, but then again Dallas, TX is the shithead capital of the world.

    Something about being physically big and strong automatically means you have to act docile to get people to take you seriously.

  • ||

    it can work to your advantage in law enforcement

    there is a distinct advantage in many situations, especially interrogations to have people grossly underestimate you. it's the old "columbo" routine.

  • Applederry||

    A different link of that video was posted in the previous thread.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFzH5Oe-YL4

  • ||

    I actually find it amazing that open carry is legal in California. I would have never thought that.

  • ||

    Unloaded open carry -- the same as no open carry. I think you can carry ammo with you, too, as long as it isn't in the gun, but it's still ridiculous.

  • ||

    Still, if I have to choose between taking a second to slide a clip in, or going back to the house for my gun...

  • Every gun pedant ever||

    Clip?!

  • GILMORE||

    Dude..... It's *California*

  • erikjay||

    I am sending a request to the Oceanside PD that they come down to LA and do some seminars for the local constables. This story needs to go viral BIG TIME as a "how-to" for cops everywhere.

  • ||

    while i agree this cop does a good job, as a matter of law...

    i don't think cops SHOULD be able to just walk up to people open carrying and be able to check their guns.

    i like the way WA does it. cops do NOT have the authoritah to do this.

    if a person is just walking around open carrying, absent evidence (RS etc.) they are doing something wrong, cops should leave them the fuck alone.

    i realize that's not the law in CA, and GIVEN the law in CA this cop does a good job, i just think THE LAW there is lame

    of course i support "shall issue" laws, so CA pisses me off

  • ||

    Agreed, but the way this encounter was handled would have taken some of the sting out of it. As opposed to "up against the wall, motherfucker!"

  • ||

    like i said, totally agree. california gun law is lame as fuck, but that aint cops' fault. this cop does a good job

  • Sudden||

    Not just a good job. It seems to me like he agreed with what this guy was doing. He's gotta be an Oathkeeper. I'm convinced.

  • ||

    What makes me laugh are Rambo cops that treat every traffic stop like he's searching for a nuclear bomb, intense and jumpy.

    "SIR, I'LL ASK YOU TO STAND IN FRONT OF THE CAR WITH YOUR H A N D S IN THE AIR!!!! RIGHT NOW, SIR, SO WE CAN ASCERTAIN WHAT'S BEEN TRANSPIRING IN THIS HERE SITUATIONAL SITUATION, SIR!"

  • ||

    keep your (meow) hands out of your pockets, sir...

  • Sudden||

    The fact that you snuck in a Super Troopers reference means that if I ever get pulled over in the Puget Sound area, I sure as hell hope its you pulling me over.

    And if you'd like, I'll gladly take any "litter" you have.

  • ||

    i don't usually do traffic... i did see some pimply faced skinnyfat nerd driving an AMC Gremlin the other day roll through a stop sign. It had "I grok Spock" and "Subvert the Dominant Paradigm" bumper stickers, and he was masturbating his sad little penis while he had a Miley Cyrus photospread on his lap.

    I figured it was Epi, and I didn't feel like a Randian lecture about state power, so I let it go

  • ||

    Rolling through a stop sign is such bullshit. I've been pulled over twice for that and both times there was no issue with traffic. Officer Mayberry just didn't like that my car slowed to 1mph before proceeding rather than 0mph, 5 seconds of checking every direction and then moving on with my life. Either I caused a hazard or I didn't. Use some common sense.

  • ||

    with nightstick: You want me to stop, or slow down?

  • Byron||

    Causing harm, not causing harm - who can tell the difference?!?!

  • ||

    on abner luima's (sp?) behalf... knock it off with the nightstick...

  • ||

    Dig it. If I spot a stuck traffic light, and I have nowhere important to be, I will sometimes park and people-watch the traffic on the red light side, literally until someone comes and fixes it. I only wish that a popcorn vendor would magically pop up.

    It's fucking fascinating to see just what good little serfs some people are. The all-time record was set by a woman who sat at the red for almost 10 friggin' minutes. And yes, she had a Garfield stick-up and a baby-on-board window decal. LOL

  • ||

    I think Epi is more of a Miranda Cosgrove kind of guy.

  • ||

    i like me some miranda lambert. kind of "thick" for a wimminses but cute and she sings about guns and whiskey and arson and shit

  • ||

    Dude, you're a harsh master. Lambert might not be super-model thin, but "thick"? She can rub that thick all over me.

  • ||

    i'd be her "harsh master" or vice versa. i mean "thick" in a good way. i generally like me some athletic wimminses (my wife is a kickboxer), but i mean thick in the sense of JUICY

  • ||

    rolling down rodeo with a shotgun, these people aint seen a brown skinned man since their grandparents bought one...

    wikikikikikikikikiki...

  • GILMORE||

    I watched it again for like the 4th time, and I admit = the guy was the best. It really reinforces a faith in the decency and intelligence of a public servant.

    What is such a shame is the fact that the frequent opposite behavior receives no public criticism from within the institutions themselves.

    Just, isolated incidents, nothing to see here.

  • ||

    iirc, the guy on the other case is going to get disciplined. not sure the penalty.

    btw, my agency just released a bulletin with the canton officer video. in brief, the synopsis was this...

    "don't do this or you will get severely punished"

    lol

  • Massaloseits||

    Lyons is cleahly a @#$%in' Massachusetts trahnsplant. Anothah brothah who left the @#$%in' weak-ass cohmmonwealth behint! My boy's wicked @#$%in' smaht! Gottah love that, you @#$%ing losahs...

  • ||

    MASSHOLES UNITE! (former masshole)

  • Apogee||

    This guy should be promoted to Chief.

  • ||

    the thing is, and many people may not believe me, this guy is a good cop, but quite common

    it's just that (again) the good cops competently doing mundane tasks like this are not going to be plastered all over youtube or garnering a lot of articles on reason

    but props to reason for giving a counterexample of a smart, professional, courteous cop doing a good job.

    not normally newsworthy, of course, but still refreshing

    i like it. it's like goofus and gallant - LEO edition

  • Apogee||

    Yes, good for Reason.

    But like buildings that don't collapse, the idea that courteous and professional cops need highlighting is somewhat difficult to follow.

    To quote Chris Rock: "You're supposed to take care of your kids!"

    Beyond the good cop/bad cop meme, there are institutional problems with law enforcement that need to be addressed, and the discipline of officers parallels greatly with those problems. IOW - it's not just about the cops. It's about the entire system.

    I don't hear you complaining about the constant stream of articles highlighting legislative malfeasance and asking to show some balance of 'good' politicians. That's because you understand, as we do, that there are greater problems with our political system that are sometimes best addressed by highlighting local abuses.

    The small town mayor granting favors to his cronies and giving himself raises isn't the the real problem, it's indicative of a systematic flaw that infects the entire political culture.

    Reason has plenty of 'good' articles about people affecting positive change toward greater freedom.

  • Jeffersonian||

    Credit where it's due...I just emailed Chief McCoy of the Oceanside PD to tell him what a great cop he has on his force in Matt Lyons.

  • Seguin||

    The Oceanside PD suggestions email is police@ci.oceanside.ca.us. Maybe if he gets enough positive feedback, it'll show OPD just what gets people's respect.

  • ||

    how do we know that Jeremy is not really a convicted felon who just used that firearm to kill a family of four on their way to disney world? Who the hell open carries an unloaded firearm?
    Officer friendly there is an unsafe cop who did not do his job, probaly because he was scared of a Jack @$$ with a cameraphone. I call Bu!!$hi#!!!!

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