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California Politicians, to Citizens: It's Too Difficult to Tax You
The state budget has jumped from $104 billion to $145
billion in less than six years, opening up an 11-figure (and
technically illegal) budget gap. Spending growth has
increased 6.8 percent a year under the current administration,
compared to annual inflation-plus-population growth of just under 5
percent. Public sector unions dominate the political culture,
fattening unstable pension programs and keeping public sector
employment high. Sales taxes, income taxes, sin taxes, and various
license fees
have all recently been increased, and municpalities have been
hiking their taxes and fees as well. And there are (insane)
proposals on the table of a Democrat-led state legislature to do
stuff like force resident businesses with websites–and their
customers!–to
pay sales tax on all e-commerce.
So what's Calfornia gonna do? Maybe launch a Constitutional Convention...to make it easier to raise taxes.
At issue is the requirement that a two-thirds vote of the California Legislature is needed to pass the state's budget and tax increases. California is one of just a handful of states requiring such a supermajority, and most years it leads to a weeks-long budget impasse. Convention backers want to drop the two-thirds majority rule to 55 percent.
There are many good reasons for a constitutional mulligan in California, some of them listed in the article (a cajillion amendments, spending formulae that turn the budget into a self-perpetuating pretzel, and a jiggery-pokery funding system from municipalities to states and back on down to counties). But don't be fooled for a second: The prize in this fight is reducing the tax threshold from 66.7 percent to 55 percent. It is an article of faith among the state's political class that the two biggest impediments to governability are Proposition 13 (which caps property-tax hikes) and the supermajority rule. To even point out the state's hysterical government and spending growth, which has not come with any noticeable improvement in services, is to initiate a conversation that many people (journalists, especially) have never held.
I wrote about Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's "failure" in February.
|4.24.09 @ 9:17AM|#
The Company that I do consultant work for is now moving all of their warehousing, Offices and art departments to Franklin, TN. They can no longer do business in California. 47 more nice paying jobs leaving CA. These employees will no longer be paying CA State income tax nor will the company pay CA Corporate Taxes either - just more dollars leaving CA - which is a shame since the owners like it in Folsom quite a bit.
Kyle Jordan|4.24.09 @ 9:17AM|#
We can nuke the San Andreas Fault and hope it falls in to the sea. Then we get to watch liberals fail to come to grips with the fact that Obamaman didn't go in to the fault and raise the continental shelf back up.
Kyle Jordan|4.24.09 @ 9:19AM|#
Of course we'd have to nuke Hackensack, New Jersey because... it's Hackensack, New Jersey.
Hugh Akston|4.24.09 @ 9:20AM|#
What California really needs is a TABOR amendment. That way a
simple majority is all they need to raise taxes.
...a simple majority of the popular vote. mwa ha ha ha ha!
JP|4.24.09 @ 9:21AM|#
Why stop at a simple majority? How about a majority of a quorum, with a quorum consisting of one quarter of all representatives? Or why not just appoint a tax czar and let him/her decide what taxes to have?
|4.24.09 @ 9:28AM|#
Wow, if politicians in Cali are whining that it's hard to raise taxes, I would hate to see where Cali would be if it was easier to raise taxes...
|4.24.09 @ 9:32AM|#
"I do not have a brain tumor"
"I will return."
"Come with me if you want to keep on livin'."
"Jingle most of the way."
|4.24.09 @ 9:36AM|#
And here I thought that "public service" meant service to the public. Now it seems that the public exists to service the State.
|4.24.09 @ 9:41AM|#
Sounds like half the population of California works for government and the other half pays the bill.
flix|4.24.09 @ 9:56AM|#
bumper stickers are nice... but a real tax revolt (as in
actually not paying!) would really make them pay
attention....
10.000 people doing it simultaneously would swamp enforcement and
the courts... 100.000 would probably get away with it, provoke an
amnesty.
The way to go is a pledge site. "If by April 2010 20.000 have
signed up, I pledge not to file my tax return and to donate 10$ to
a legal defense fund"
|4.24.09 @ 10:00AM|#
Veru nailed it. Those who can run--the people who have enough cash and moxie--are on their way out of Cal, while the spongers are on their way in. As Margaret Thatcher once said, the problem with socialists is that eventually they run out of other people's money. Cal is already there, and the machine is so broken there is no way to fix it without dumping damned near all of it. Pity California can't do what it's southern neighbor did: dump all its unemployed and unemployables on a richer bordering state.
|4.24.09 @ 10:11AM|#
Veru,
Franklin, TN eh? My nephew just moved there from a great talent
agency in... L.A.
What gives?
|4.24.09 @ 10:13AM|#
Print more greenish papers to bailout California. The taxpayers and their children of the rest of the country will pay for it.
gm|4.24.09 @ 10:15AM|#
don't they have gold in Calif? ..should be pretty easy to avoid paying taxes if they had half a brain...
tgs|4.24.09 @ 10:21AM|#
The state budget just 10 years ago was 74 billion. It has doubled in 10 years, have services? No. No one but the illegals, the "poor", and the Unions derive any benefit from the State anymore.
|4.24.09 @ 10:33AM|#
and most years it leads to a weeks-long budget
impasse.
Oh noes, WEEKS! can you believe it takes WEEKS to work it out. Some
years even a month! It's a wonder the state doesn't just
disintegrate with that kind of budget process...
This is what drives me crazy... that anyone would think that a
smoother process is the most important thing of all, more important
than making, you know, a good budget.
JP|4.24.09 @ 10:36AM|#
10.000 people doing it simultaneously would swamp
enforcement and the courts... 100.000 would probably get away with
it, provoke an amnesty.
You underestimate the Beast, young Jedi. The Beast conquers by
dividing. It need only "make an example" of a handful of protesters
for the rest to fall in line.
jules|4.24.09 @ 10:41AM|#
You underestimate the Beast, young Jedi. The Beast conquers
by dividing. It need only "make an example" of a handful of
protesters for the rest to fall in line.
..so the handful "do a Geithner" say "oops, my mistake" and
comply... the rest keep resisting... plus an offshore account for
donations to a legal defense fund helps those most
threatened...
|4.24.09 @ 10:53AM|#
Tax Revolt 2009-Heads on a stick, Recall Adams, and Oh Yea-Vote
No on Prop A-F.
If you want to know what is wrong with the entire Republican Party,
look no further than the California Republican Party.
|4.24.09 @ 11:02AM|#
"This isn't the state of California. This is the state of
insanity."
- Robert Stack as Major General Joe Stilwell in Steven Speilberg's
"1941"
|4.24.09 @ 11:06AM|#
Who in their right mind would ever want to spend a day in
California?
Arnold is a FRAUD! He, along with Deval Patrick, are two of the
worst governors in our history.
Naga Sadow|4.24.09 @ 11:08AM|#
It's only a matter of time til the Legislature passes a bill to
outlaw businesses leaving the state.
" All I know is, on the day your plane was to leave, if I had the
power, I would turn the winds around, I would roll in the fog, I
would bring in storms, I would change the polarity of the earth so
compasses couldn't work, so your plane couldn't take off."
|4.24.09 @ 11:20AM|#
It's only a matter of time til the Legislature passes a bill
to outlaw businesses leaving the state.
Actually, they'll just make you get a permit for leaving. The
permit will cost $5,000.
Naga Sadow|4.24.09 @ 11:22AM|#
NAL,
I was thinking of a retroactive tax but I like where you were
heading.
arnie|4.24.09 @ 11:24AM|#
Exit Tax!
what a great idea! no constitutional limitations on that, I'll get
too it right away
ex-pat|4.24.09 @ 11:26AM|#
ha, you should check out what your tax obligations to the US are right now even if you leave and renounce citizenship... you might be surprised... even 10 years after leaving you still have to pay.
Joel|4.24.09 @ 12:02PM|#
Refresh my memory - wasn't it a self-inflicted budget situation
just like this one that caused the recall that ushered in the
Governator in the first place? And wasn't that, like, not really
very long ago?
Is the complete failure of short-term policy memory an Austrian
thing? Something steroid-related? Or should we just forget it,
Jake, it's cali-town?
Richard Palmer|4.24.09 @ 12:08PM|#
Victor Davis Hanson has pointed this out. California is blessed with Hollywood, Silicon Valley, tourism, fertile land, world class ports, OIL, timber...and the politicians still managed to bankrupt the state. Why is no one in the media seriously analyzing what happened?
economist|4.24.09 @ 12:09PM|#
"..so the handful "do a Geithner" say "oops, my mistake" and
comply... "
That only works if you've been appointed Treasury Secretary by the
Hope and Change President.
Everyone else pays a heavy fine or goes to prison.
economist|4.24.09 @ 12:12PM|#
"It's only a matter of time til the Legislature passes a bill to
outlaw businesses leaving the state."
I really wish someone could build a machine that runs at
atmospheric static electricity. But, alas, I fear that it conflicts
with the second law of thermodynamics.
Naga Sadow|4.24.09 @ 12:18PM|#
economist,
Indeed. Or unless you conspire to stop the motor of the world.
economist|4.24.09 @ 12:22PM|#
Stopping the motor of the world is a young man's game, Naga. It requires a lot of work that I'm too lazy to do and intelligence that I don't have.
D.R.M.|4.24.09 @ 12:25PM|#
Now, now. The motor used new physics. That's legitimate. If somebody figures out how to build a machine that runs on atmospheric static electricity, the second law of thermodynamics doesn't stop them, they've merely disproven it.
Paul|4.24.09 @ 12:25PM|#
Public sector unions dominate the political culture, fattening unstable pension programs and keeping public sector employment high.
Why do you hate the workin' man, Matt?
|4.24.09 @ 12:43PM|#
Palmer: It's the elephant in the room, the one who speaks with a Latino accent. Nobody wants to admit that Mexicans are shiftless, lazy thieves. Ironically, the people who tell us that we need to move past racism are still making all their decisions based solely on race...
|4.24.09 @ 12:50PM|#
Counterintuitively, the budget supermajority requirement may actually be worsening the deficit. Remember all the extra pork that had to be added to TARP I in order to get it passed? Those extra votes cost money.
|4.24.09 @ 1:06PM|#
If somebody figures out how to build a machine that runs on
atmospheric static electricity, the second law of thermodynamics
doesn't stop them, they've merely disproven it.
Oh god! Don't do that - the State will grab that, too - like it did
with the first laser. National Security, don't you know.
|4.24.09 @ 1:58PM|#
Here's a link to the relevant law governing the State's authority. As I recall, one of the laser's original inventors was denied a patent on the grounds of national security and his patent subsequently granted to Bell Labs (who apparently was better connected.) Still looking for an online site to that, but I think I remember Reason doing an article on this case back in the 1970's. Maybe someone could check.
Mike Laursen|4.24.09 @ 3:33PM|#
We can nuke the San Andreas Fault and hope it falls in to
the sea.
Unfortunately, Sacramento is well on the mainland side of the
fault. Would be better to trigger the Melones Fault.
Mike Laursen|4.24.09 @ 3:39PM|#
That way a simple majority is all they need to raise
taxes.
That would be OK with me as long as all new ballot initiatives are
required to have titles like the "Drowning Puppies Amendment of
2009".
Mike Laursen|4.24.09 @ 3:44PM|#
Who in their right mind would ever want to spend a day in
California?
As I write this, I'm looking upon a cascade of graceful, white
Apricot tree blossoms in my backyard. Clear skies, just detectible
breeze in the air, a tad cooler than room temperature.
ChrisO|4.24.09 @ 3:47PM|#
ha, you should check out what your tax obligations to the US
are right now even if you leave and renounce citizenship... you
might be surprised... even 10 years after leaving you still have to
pay.
Only if your destination country has an extradition treaty with the
USA...
|4.24.09 @ 4:07PM|#
I really wish someone could build a machine that runs at
atmospheric static electricity. But, alas, I fear that it conflicts
with the second law of thermodynamics.
And just look at this perpetual motion machine! It just keeps
getting faster! *pounds on wall* Lisa! In this house we *obey* the
laws of thermodynamics!
|4.24.09 @ 4:58PM|#
|4.24.09 @ 4:59PM|#
"I would hate to see where Cali would be if it was easier to
raise taxes..."
Easy, Mexifornia.
Does anyone dispute that California's economy will converge with
that of Mexico?
|4.24.09 @ 5:06PM|#
Jeffersonian:
And here I thought that "public service" meant service to the
public. Now it seems that the public exists to service the
State.
No, the state services the public. Bulls service cows, don't
they?
|4.24.09 @ 5:06PM|#
As I write this, I'm looking upon a cascade of graceful,
white Apricot tree blossoms in my backyard. Clear skies, just
detectible breeze in the air, a tad cooler than room
temperature.
That's funny- I'mm looking at the melting remnants of a foot of
snow which fell last night.
Fucking global warming!
|4.24.09 @ 5:21PM|#
California weather is so good, its soil and natural resources so
perfect, that CA can sustain 5 point more of marginal tax above any
other tax hell in America.
In other words, where people would flee Michigan or Massachusetts
at a 45% top rate, CA residents won't break until 50%.
But the state seems intent on using up even this 5% natural buffer.
After that, people will leave either by choice, or because their
employer shifted jobs out of the state.
And don't think they are going to other US states like NV and AZ.
No. They are going to Asia, leaving the US altogether. Asia is
where many of the most productive Californians are from, after
all.
What was once unthinkable - people leaving CA to return to China
and India, is now a reality.
Gene Berkman|4.24.09 @ 5:26PM|#
Not to quibble, but under California law, internet sellers that
have any physical presence in California are already required to
remit sales tax to the state of California.
In the last quarter of 2008, Barnes & Noble reported their
first loss in many years, because they had to pay back sales taxes
to California.
Also, if a California resident buys online or from an out of state
mail-order dealer, and the dealer does not charge sales tax, the
resident is supposed to report the purchase on his income tax form,
and pay use tax.
|4.24.09 @ 6:07PM|#
There is a group known as California Forward, which seeks to
make some big changes in "governance" in the Golden State. They
have been testing the waters of support for such proposals as:
modifying or repealing Prop. 13 so that, at very least, commercial
property would not be protected; making the sales tax apply to more
transactions, including those involving services, rather than
goods; and instituting a carbon tax. I was present at a
dog-and-pony show they put on in my town. Our local county tax
collector (former assemblyman and county supervisor) analogized the
operation of the State to taking a road trip. The car (CA economy)
breaks down and a friendly repair guy (the legislature) shows up,
but his "tools" are only sufficient to repair Model T's, not the
smooth rides that we have in the modern day. The goal of California
Forward is to modernize Bob the Mechanic's toolchest, by gum!
It was at this point that and even some of the most tax-friendly,
liberal-minded members of the audience, began to feel for our
wallets.
Later, that same pol felt it necessary to say, "nobody" (and he
rattled out a list of the nobodies -- other pols, NGOs, and State
agencies -- to whom he referred) was seeking to "raise taxes." But
only an idiot would have believed such strenuous denials. He didst
protest too much, methinks. And now it is the citizens' turn to
protest.
|4.24.09 @ 6:58PM|#
I think it would be a fantastic idea for the California
government to raise taxes as high as it likes. The resulting
catastrophe would teach California and all other states what
happens when you decide to raise taxes in a state with all ready
sky high taxes.
I'd love to watch the nightmare scenario where all productive
Californians all the sudden become productive Oregonians, Nevadans,
Texans, etc. Then all the parasitic Californians (and parasitic
Americans), especially the politicians will see that maybe private
sector greed is nothing compared to public sector greed.
Geotpf|4.24.09 @ 7:15PM|#
Can anybody give me a breakdown on what the changes in the
California state budget were spent on? Did the population increase?
Did expenses increase?
For example, the cost of both land and building materials
skyrocketed during the years in question, which means the costs of
building things like freeways or schools would increase in
proportion.
If the state has a need to build x many schools and y many freeway
miles each year, but the cost per school or per mile went up by
40%-guess what, the budget would have to go up 40% as well to
provide the same level of product.
Or maybe the population increased, so they had to build x + 40%
schools and y + 40% freeway miles just to keep up. Or a combination
of the two.
That is, skyrocketing budgets do not necessarily mean that wasteful
spending was involved-it could merely mean that costs increased.
Now, there may be wasteful spending there, but merely saying, "The
budget went from $104 billion to $145 billion means that money was
wasted" is a completely false argument.
|4.24.09 @ 7:17PM|#
"I'd love to watch the nightmare scenario where all productive
Californians all the sudden become productive Oregonians, Nevadans,
Texans, etc. "
Dead wrong. Typical US-centric tunnel vision.
The MOST productive Californians are Asians. They will return to
Asia, thus making the US lose their productivity altogether.
Get it?
Mike Laursen|4.24.09 @ 7:35PM|#
Also, if a California resident buys online or from an out of
state mail-order dealer, and the dealer does not charge sales tax,
the resident is supposed to report the purchase on his income tax
form, and pay use tax.
I have met exactly one person who actually does this. When he told
me and a bunch of my co-workers about it, everyone in the room just
sat there in stunned by his, err, um, exemplary citizenship.
Mike Laursen|4.24.09 @ 7:39PM|#
The MOST productive Californians are Asians. They will
return to Asia, thus making the US lose their productivity
altogether.
Do you mean like actual Asians, here on visas, or Asian-Americans?
If it's the former, they are very productive but there aren't that
many. If you're talking about the latter, they're from here --
they're not all going to pack up and go someplace that they're not
from.
Mike Laursen|4.24.09 @ 7:40PM|#
Can anybody give me a breakdown on what the changes in the
California state budget were spent on? Did the population increase?
Did expenses increase?
I don't know where to point you to for a succinct summary of where
it all goes, but the biggest items are salaries and retirement for
teachers, prison guards, and other public employees.
|4.24.09 @ 8:51PM|#
"Do you mean like actual Asians, here on visas, or
Asian-Americans? If it's the former, they are very productive but
there aren't that many. If you're talking about the latter, they're
from here -- they're not all going to pack up and go someplace that
they're not from."
I mean both. Even Asian-Americans born here are in fact moving to
Asia. They have cousins and uncles there. Many HAVE gone.
they're not all going to pack up and go someplace that they're
not from.
Didn't you just say that Asians packed up and moved to America? So
why won't US-born Asian Americans go to a country where they
already have cousins and uncles who they know, and hav visited
before?
Think, man, think. America is not as great as it once was.
Mike Laursen|4.25.09 @ 3:17AM|#
Don't throw the word "many" around so casually, man. :-)
I'm well aware that America is not as great as it once was. I've
thought of emigrating myself.
Still, no significant number of Asian-Americans are going to take
off to Asia. They were born here or at least have lived most of
their lives here, and they're Americans. This is their home. They'd
miss cheeseburgers and football and Thanksgiving just as much as
all us non-Asian Americans.
Jeffrey Balla|4.25.09 @ 4:13AM|#
That's why Xeones should be a policeman.
Anyway, why would a liberal like Schwartzenegger cut spending?
|4.25.09 @ 5:27AM|#
"They were born here or at least have lived most of their lives
here, and they're Americans. This is their home. They'd miss
cheeseburgers and football and Thanksgiving just as much as all us
non-Asian Americans"
So why did Indians and Chinese pack up to come to America? Wouldn't
Indians miss the cricket, diwali, Bollywood films, weddings, and
their throngs of relatives and friends?
It is quite arrogant to think that cheeseburgers (which can be
bought there too) and football (which also can be watched from
there) have enough pull to keep someone here, when their parents
left their homes to come here.
|4.25.09 @ 6:25AM|#
Tom is right. I'm an American who now lives in Asia and I'm very
happy living here because I don't have to pay for the welfare
suckers and liberal idiocy. The lefties have sunk America by trying
to make it possible for those who don't work to have as much as
those who do. Here in Asia, there's a simple rule: work hard
because no one owes you a damned thing and if you don't earn it,
you won't have it.
Pity America lost the ability to understand that awhile back. Maybe
the upcoming implosion might just make them remember it. However,
what is more likely is the suckers and welfare bums will just keep
voting themselves more largesse from the public coffers. That means
more productive people like me will be finding themselves over on
the western side of the Pacific.
Obama's a disaster but America is just beginning to drink the cup
of bitter gall that will be reaped by his election. Bad, bad
mistake. With enough bad luck it may prove fatal.
Mike Laursen|4.25.09 @ 9:48AM|#
So why did Indians and Chinese pack up to come to America?
Wouldn't Indians miss the cricket, diwali, Bollywood films,
weddings, and their throngs of relatives and friends?
You're just really bad at assessing the quantity of people who
engage in international migration. Most people stay put. That's
all.
|4.25.09 @ 7:56PM|#
"You're just really bad at assessing the quantity of people who
engage in international migration. Most people stay put. That's
all."
Wrong. Most of Silicon Valley runs on Indians and Chinese (whether
1st or 2nd generation) There is no logic at all to your US-centric
views.
I told you that Asians come here at great personal sacrifice, so
why can't US-born Asian Americans go to Asia, where they have
cousins and other relatives anyway?
They ARE going back. It appears cheeseburgers and apple pie (which
you can get there too, BTW) just don't have the pull that you think
they do.
If we can get Samosas and Spring Rolls here, why can't they get
apple pie there? Is apple pie too high tech for India and China to
produce?
engineer|4.25.09 @ 10:59PM|#
"I'm well aware that America is not as great as it once was.
I've thought of emigrating myself."
It'll take awhile before I pack up and give up on the States. Then
again, I would stick out like a sore thumb anywhere in Asia, and
I've never had any proficiency in foreign languages.
engineer|4.25.09 @ 11:00PM|#
"That's funny- I'mm looking at the melting remnants of a foot of
snow which fell last night."
And you live where? Alaska?
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