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A Little Protest Perspective
Today's Tea Party protests may be having some permitting troubles, but here's a little dose of protest perspective from today's New York Times:
KABUL, Afghanistan — The young women stepped off the bus and moved toward the protest march just beginning on the other side of the street when they were spotted by a mob of men.
“Get out of here, you whores!” the men shouted. “Get out!”...
But the march continued anyway. About 300 Afghan women, facing an angry throng three times larger than their own, walked the streets of the capital on Wednesday to demand that Parliament repeal a new law that introduces a range of Taliban-like restrictions on women, and permits, among other things, marital rape.
Plus this protest, closer to home:
While conservatives are planning nationwide “Tea Parties” protesting taxes—and even same-sex marriage—same-sex couples are planning some tea parties of their own, to protest the government overcharging them. The rationale: because same-sex couples are not recognized by the federal government, they face higher taxes than straight married couples.
Couples around the country will be handing out fliers at post offices educating Americans about this unfairness in the tax code. A group in Boston is even throwing their tax forms into the Boston Harbor.
Protests are scheduled in Wisconsin, Iowa and South Dakota today.
Looks like Glenn Reynolds is right. Tax Day is becoming Protest Day. Not a bad development, all in all.
phalkor|4.15.09 @ 4:25PM|#
I don't think I fully understand the tea party concept. Who are
these people? What are they protesting? Taxes in general? Well,
tough shit. Anti-gay marriage throws a wtf in my news-compiler
module.
Pro-freedom from taxes but not for the gays? I must be missing
something, as this whole clown show seems stupid.
|4.15.09 @ 4:29PM|#
Anti-gay marriage throws a wtf in my news-compiler
module.
Just as the legacy media hoped it would.
The anti-gay marriage folks are just glomming themselves onto a
successful movement; they aren't the movement at all.
phalkor|4.15.09 @ 4:29PM|#
however, the Afghan women are courageous and heroic for standing against monumental oppression.
|4.15.09 @ 4:31PM|#
According to The Economist "the gays" should pay higher taxes. They have more disposable income on average thus should pay more in taxes. Right.....right?
Dello|4.15.09 @ 4:33PM|#
The United States of Pansy-ass-ification.
300 Afghany women show more fortitude than 100,000 US tax
protesters.
phalkor|4.15.09 @ 4:36PM|#
we give tax credits for children, not heterosexuality, silly. gay couples already pay more taxes.
|4.15.09 @ 4:47PM|#
300 Afghany women show more fortitude than 100,000 US tax
protesters.
That's only because the left doesn't have any guns. If wishing them
dead could get the job done, the protesters would be history. The
mean protesters don't care about teh children or social justice,
and worst of all they are "probably Rethuglican". I forgot
unpatriotic. That too. And they're extremists. Probably racist. Did
I cover everything?
|4.15.09 @ 4:51PM|#
phalkor | April 15, 2009, 4:29pm | #
however, the Afghan women are courageous and heroic for standing against monumental oppression.
Dello | April 15, 2009, 4:33pm | #
300 Afghany women show more fortitude than 100,000 US tax protesters.
Hear! Hear!
Orange Line Special|4.15.09 @ 5:06PM|#
Not a bad development, all in all.
I'm sure RahmEmanuel agrees! After all, instead of a broad-based
opposition to BHO, it's best that the opposition be shown to be as
small and loony as possible.
Wave your John Galt signs high, all 0.08% of the last electorate of
you!
is this trolling?|4.15.09 @ 5:08PM|#
Not a bad development, all in all.
I'm not seeing that with the tea party BS. I don't know about past
'parties', but this year it seems a lot of GOP handjobs have really
latched on to it. So, the one of the parties of big government is
pretending to want lower taxes(again). That makes everyone
associated with it look stupid. Gotta pay for your wars and
bullshit legislation somehow. At least the Democraps are honest
about that.
|4.15.09 @ 5:18PM|#
however, the Afghan women are courageous and heroic for
standing against monumental oppression.
Absolutely.
The Chad|4.15.09 @ 5:25PM|#
I'm not convinced about the effectiveness of the tea parties. I
for one will protest ridiculous overspending and a corrupt
political regime that does not represent the will of the people.
But because of the decentralized nature of this movement (if one
can call it that), the message is getting mixed and hijacked and
manipulated all over the place.
Yes, it is a minority of the population that's out there
protesting. But you know what? They are protected by the
constitution, and the 'majority' that voted Obama into office are
fucking morons. I don't care if 99.99% of the population of this
country thinks capitalism is evil and fascism is the way to go,
they are WRONG.
So what do we do? Just sit back and let fascism destroy us all? 'Go
Galt' and try to run away from everything? Or we stand up and say
"No you fuckwads!" ? I'm going for the latter tonight, and I
personally hope there are lots more like me there.
Quit being fucking nihilists and stand up for what you believe
in.
Warty|4.15.09 @ 5:27PM|#
Chad, protests never do anything but give normal people something to laugh at.
|4.15.09 @ 5:36PM|#
I went to a tea party protest in Carson City today. It was good
times.
What I saw, 95% of the protest being about lower taxes, individual
liberty and less government intrusion.
Lots of "throw them all out regardless of party" signs. I have to
agree with that one.
Some of Lonewhacko's people were there. Not sure why they were
there, the protest was not about Mexicans at all.
There was some 2nd A people there too, I agree with the cause, but
that is not what the protest was about.
There was also a bunch of God people there, also not what the
protest was about.
95% or more of the people were there for what the protest was
about. Some people were there about their own agenda.
A few Ron Paul signs out in effect too.
|4.15.09 @ 5:37PM|#
Warty - that's the thing tho - a lot of normal people are out
there today. The tea party protests are attracting a lot of
non-politically active, non-protesty types, people who don't
usually turn out for stuff like this (because they're working,
usually. Protesting is something you do on someone else's dime).
Yeah, there are gonna be some whackos who use the coverage to wave
their anti-gay or anti-abortion or whatever signs. Kind of like
every antiwar rally featured a contingent of cretins with the
Israel=Nazi signs. Only you didn't see the cretins featured
prominently in the MSM coverage, and you will see every nutball in
the teaparty protest featured more than prominently.
I was hoping to see some big headed puppets, tho.
I love the CNN reporter who bitched that the protest was
anti-government and anti-CNN. Butch the fuck up, Barbie.
|4.15.09 @ 5:37PM|#
Any opportunity to make snide but innocent jokes about teabagging and politicians is a good opportunity.
|4.15.09 @ 5:39PM|#
I'll try to post some pics of the event later on.
Oh yeah, and kudos to the Afghan women, by all means that is much
braver.
The equivalent here would be for the protesters to actually refuse
to pay taxes or to do something that really mattered.
I think a few people at the protest were on the border, ready to
take the next step. I saw a few signs that said "a revolution is
brewing".
|4.15.09 @ 5:39PM|#
I went to the Boston teaparty on my long lunch break and foun it
to be fun. There were over 1000 people there. To make gross
generalizations, it seemed there were about 25% Rothbardians, 35%
Infowarriors (although many were mixed)...and 40% other.
Yes I am saying that after talking with 20 people and seeing the
various signs I'd estiamte there were 200 people on the Boston
Commons who have read a Rothbard book.
Lots of "End the Fed signs" and "Congress is a toxic asset". Cody
Willard showed up with a Fox News camera. We interrupted one of his
interviews with a 10 person "End the Fed" chants.
I talked to a guy from redstate.com who was interviewing
people...he will cherry pick quotes to make the protest fit
whatever image they want it to, but it was still a good
thing.
Nice to meet some likeminded people who work in the same
neighborhood. We shared emails, already linked on facebook and we
will do otehr events. Of course this will be protrayed as badly as
possible on the dummy box...however the TV has never converted
anybody into understanding the false left-right paradigm. Many of
the people I talked to were 20 - 30 years old and they are internet
only news readers.
The funniest moment for me was when 6 people were discussing
different Rothbard books when a guy came up to hand out "flat tax"
pamphlets. The sales pitch did not go well.
|4.15.09 @ 5:42PM|#
Oh, I have witnessed a many left wing protests, the thing that
struck me about this protest was how on the same message most of
the protesters.
In a left wing protest, you will see protesters that should by all
means oppose each other more than opposing what the protest is
about.
I mean seriously gays and hamas in the same march?
|4.15.09 @ 5:45PM|#
I mean seriously gays and hamas in the same
march?
Now, if it was gays and hummus, with maybe a nice tapenade, that
would make sense.
Gilbert Martin|4.15.09 @ 5:47PM|#
"same-sex couples are planning some tea parties of their own, to
protest the government overcharging them. The rationale: because
same-sex couples are not recognized by the federal government, they
face higher taxes than straight married couples."
They have no more standing to complain about it than single people
do.
Warty|4.15.09 @ 5:52PM|#
Now, if it was gays and hummus, with maybe a nice tapenade,
that would make sense.
A restaurant near my place spells it "homos". I make sure to get
extra homos every time I go.
</|4.15.09 @ 5:53PM|#
They have no more standing to complain about it than single
people do.
Well they are single people in the eyes of the Federal
government.Unless they're "on the down low" or somethin'.
|4.15.09 @ 5:58PM|#
po gay marriage stuff may have been present at the boston tea party and that is fine with me. However, a reporter would have had to really search to find them. I saw over 50 "Don't Tread on Me" flags(Gadsden Flag) and about 20 "End the Fed" signs...all types of other signs protesting the debts being pushed onto our children and I didn't see a single gay marriage sign in 3 hours of walking around and talking. I think there will be another similar nationwide protest day coming in a couple months and I think this is good.
|4.15.09 @ 6:07PM|#
I make sure to get extra homos every time I go.
Oh, I'm sure you do.
"Get out of here, you whores!"
Like a fiendish tropic virus
Spitting bile at all you whores
Razor-sharp tongue-in-cheek
Poking in your open sores
A wolf in sheep's clothing
The ultimate disgrace
Wrapped up as a gift of god
Exploding in your face
|4.15.09 @ 6:25PM|#
Not sure that they gays are really right on this tax thing. If one person in the relationship earns almost all of the income, then filing jointly lowers your taxes compared to filing separately. But if both spouses earn about substantial amounts in their own right, then filing jointly is at best a wash, and often can result in higher taxes because some deductions and credits phase out at higher income levels. My wife and I would pay lower combined taxes if we could each file single.
Geoff Nathan|4.15.09 @ 6:28PM|#
Paul Begala has a particularly nasty comment linked off the front page of CNN this afternoon about how we teabaggers are just whining to get out of paying our fair share of taxes so the wounded vets can be healed and the cops and firemen can get paid. As if any more than 0.000009% of the Federal Budget went to those kinds of things. Grrrr.
SIV|4.15.09 @ 6:50PM|#
GOVERNOR SAYS TEXAS CAN LEAVE THE UNION IF IT WANTS
I'm already whistling Dixie !
JW Gacy|4.15.09 @ 7:29PM|#
IIRC, in the Arabic script, you have o/u ambiguity. So, homos is just as valid as hummus, hommous, humos, etc.
jtuf|4.15.09 @ 7:41PM|#
It's great to see people peacefully protesting. I went to a Tea Party Tax protest today. When the speaches started drifting away from taxes, I headed home.
Dolans|4.15.09 @ 7:46PM|#
Wah, wah, wah. The gays are always glomming on to everyone
else's moment, less the topic be about something other than gays
for once.
Those Afghan women deserve a Rosa Parks level of honor. I wonder
where the world's feminists are in sharing outrage for the hideous
treatment that muslim women receive, but I guess they're more
worried about offending muslims in general since many muslims share
they're disdain for America.
Libertarian Keyboard Warriors|4.15.09 @ 7:50PM|#
These protesters, like many of the androids on here don't seem
to even understand what the Boston Tea Party was about.
However, Conservative minded types tend to follow their own version
of history. For example: Free markets would have ended slavery, if
it was allowed to run its course. I shit you not.
"So what do we do? Just sit back and let fascism destroy us all?
'Go Galt' and try to run away from everything? Or we stand up and
say "No you fuckwads!" ?"
Aw, that's cute. A quick glance of Libertarian history shows that
the Libertarian community has never evolved past this question. A
new generation of cranks, and yet we get the same old desperate
cliches.
Here's some free advice: Maybe it's time to reevaluate the
philosophy, and evolve. Of course, that's assuming that
Libertarians truly want the responsibility of fucking everything
up, and then having to claw their way back into the fray after the
fallout. In reality, that kind of fearless attitude has never
defined the movement. So, I guess it's back to the Rand
novels.
Groaning from the sidelines is so much more cathartic, and you
never have to be the one to blame.
Libertarian Keyboard Warriors|4.15.09 @ 7:53PM|#
"It's great to see people peacefully protesting. I went to a Tea
Party Tax protest today. When the speaches started drifting away
from taxes, I headed home."
Your comment effectively sums up the intellectual standard that
most Libertarians adhere to.
MNG|4.15.09 @ 7:54PM|#
"GOVERNOR SAYS TEXAS CAN LEAVE THE UNION IF IT WANTS"
Please let it be true, please let it be true, please let it be
true.
And can you take Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Georgia
too?
And Utah of course.
MNG|4.15.09 @ 7:55PM|#
"My wife and I would pay lower combined taxes if we could each
file single."
We've found that out too. Remember when folks talked about "the
marriage penalty?"
Still, gay marriages should be recognized by the state of
course.
Mickey|4.15.09 @ 7:56PM|#
Reason has really hit the big time blog list. They are now an official assignment for trolls working the democrat party smear and beat down list.
MNG|4.15.09 @ 8:16PM|#
One thing I've always thought interesting about the South is
that its the region with the most militarism, but got its ass
handed to them in a war against the rest of the nation.
I mean, Maine was kicking their ass.
Maine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Maine_Volunteer_Infantry_Regiment
MNG|4.15.09 @ 8:18PM|#
"Stereotype much, MNG? How progressive of you."
You know what I love about conservatives? They carry this fantastic
caricature of liberals in their head, that we are all tofu-sushi
eating, sandal wearing folk music listening too multicultural
loving America hating hippies and then they get all mad when some
actual liberal they meet don't act up to that image.
"Hey, you're not playing by the rules!"
guy in the back row|4.15.09 @ 8:40PM|#
The NYC rally had at least 2000 people when I walked by around 7:00. Lots of Gadsden flags!
|4.15.09 @ 8:58PM|#
You know what I love about liberals? They carry this fantastic
caricature of conservatives in their head, that we're all congac
sipping, white collar wearing, greedy racists and then they get all
scared when some actual conservative they meet actually looks a lot
like they do.
"Hey, you're supposed to have a sloped brow!"
|4.15.09 @ 9:33PM|#
I went to the Boston teaparty on my long lunch break and
foun it to be fun. There were over 1000 people there.
Sure there were. The BPD estimates turnout at half that.
In March 2003, there was a 50,000 person anti-war rally in
Boston.
This is RC Dean's "successful movement." You can get up to 2% -
generously - the size of the movement that didn't want to invade
Iraq in early 2003.
Lol.
B|4.15.09 @ 9:33PM|#
"The rationale: because same-sex couples are not recognized by
the federal government, they face higher taxes than straight
married couples."
Straight unmarried couples that live together don't get any benefit
either. I'm all for gay marriage, but the above argument is less
than persuasive.
|4.15.09 @ 9:35PM|#
The crowd at the original Boston Tea Party was estimated at
7000, in a city of approximately 18,000 people.
Hilarious!
B|4.15.09 @ 9:44PM|#
"One thing I've always thought interesting about the South is
that its the region with the most militarism, but got its ass
handed to them in a war against the rest of the nation."
And since you are a fucking genius, I am sure you can provide some
sort of concrete statistic demonstrating that the South is more
militaristic. Maybe you can cite the United States Regional
Militaristic Index.
B|4.15.09 @ 9:46PM|#
"This is RC Dean's "successful movement." You can get up to 2% -
generously - the size of the movement that didn't want to invade
Iraq in early 2003."
Hey, I got an idea, let's mention one place that had a lower
attendance than expected, for whatever reason, and totally ignore
the hundreds of other Tea Party protests around the country. Then
let's top it off with a good topping of snark to prove what a dick
you still are.
|4.15.09 @ 9:51PM|#
Here is a bit of admittedly amateur poetry for joe
joe from lowell
what a total asshole
ask him to criticize Obama
he can't
he is a total sycophant
|4.15.09 @ 9:51PM|#
Re: gays and the tax code. It's not so much about paying more or less filing single or filing jointly, although that can be a problem. But how about this? Gay people pay the same Social Security tax as straight people, but our partners -- no matter how long we have been together -- don't get any of our Social Security benefits if we die. We don't have inheritance rights from our partners, so we are not exempt from estate tax, as straight married couple are. If we receive health insurance benefits from our partner's employer, we have to pay tax on those benefits -- unlike straight couples. Our tax dollars support the U.S. military, but we do not have the right to serve in the military. And so on. How is any of this fair?
B|4.15.09 @ 9:53PM|#
"In March 2003, there was a 50,000 person anti-war rally in
Boston."
Given the various statements of those in the media this week, the
above can only mean one thing. That rally was an astroturf rally
organized by MSNBC and the DNC.
B|4.15.09 @ 9:56PM|#
"And can you take Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Georgia
too?
And Utah of course"
And, given your hatred of the Jews, New York as well, right?
B|4.15.09 @ 10:09PM|#
"joe from lowell
what a total asshole
ask him to criticize Obama
he can't
he is a total sycophant"
You forgot to add:
When Obama says jump
joe says no please
I would much prefer
to get down on my knees
MNG|4.15.09 @ 10:11PM|#
I hate some Jews. I like a lot of Jews. But to be honest, the
vast majority of Jews I don't know.
I don't like a lot of the policies of the state of Israel, but then
again that's not the same thing as the dumb thing you said.
And as far as the South and militarism, I used to live there. They
love them some military down there, they just were not good at
making up a winning one it seems...
stuartl|4.15.09 @ 10:16PM|#
I dreamed I saw Joe Boyle last night,
alive as you and me.
Says I "But Joe, you're ten years dead"
"I never died" said he,
"I never died" said he.
From San Diego up to Maine,
in every mine and mill,
Where working men defend their rights,
it's there you find Joe Boyle,
it's there you find Joe Boyle!
|4.15.09 @ 10:28PM|#
The crowd at the original Boston Tea Party was estimated at
7000, in a city of approximately 18,000 people.
Wait a minute... what? I thought it was like seven guys in indian
costumes?
Anyways, just got back from the NYC party. It was massive. A solid
handful of morons, but mostly people who just hated big government.
The "USA" chants made me nervous, but it at least seemed like most
people weren't that into them. The loudest cheers were all
"individualism rocks," and "the social welfare state is slavery,"
etc.
I gave a loud "BOOO" when Krugman was mentioned; I don't think many
of the other people there knew who he was. Rachel Maddow, on the
other hand, got a frighteningly large roar of disdain.
All in all, good times!
|4.15.09 @ 10:40PM|#
I went to the Tea Party in Clear Lake, the one at which Ron Paul
himself spoke. The speaker before him mentioned the gay marriage
bit, which I wasn't aware of and made me a bit uncomfortable, but
that was balanced out by Paul, near the end of his speech, saying,
"We don't want a welfare state or a warfare state, and we're not
the world's policemen" and then going into a minute long bit about
bringing our troops home.
I was a bit surprised that he slipped it in, and I could sense
swaths of the crowd cooling a bit, but he finished strongly by
mentioned the constitution and liberty again, which of course
everyone loved.
JB|4.15.09 @ 10:45PM|#
Fuck married people. As a single person I say fuck all you
fucks.
I don't care if you are gay, straight, or like to fuck dead animals
or wall sockets.
We should charge married couples more, not less.
tarran|4.15.09 @ 11:07PM|#
MNG, Considering the fact that the Union army outnumbered the
Confederate Army by a ratio of two to one, that the Union had a far
more developed railroad network and an industrial base that
supplied nearly 10 times the munitions that Confederate industrial
base could produce, the Confederates actually did surprisingly
well.
The War Between the States is pretty much the first modern war,
where artillery, industrial production and logistical systems
determined the outcome. It was the last major war where people
marched in formation while fighting; the introduction of rifles,
primitive machine guns and more sophisticated artillery meant such
tactics were quite suicidal.
tarran|4.15.09 @ 11:29PM|#
I will agree, though, that the South is depressingly
militaristic and jingoistic.
I beleive that there are two reasons for this:
1) Much of the Confederacy's industrial base was destroyed in the
war due to a) the Confederate Government's disastrous economic
policies vis a vis tarrifs, taxation and inflation, b) the
destruction by the Union invasion and occupation, c) cost of
reparations in the decades following the war, and numerous other
less important factors. This made millitary careers unusually
attractive. To this day, many southerners see a millitary career as
the only way to escape to poverty endemic to their home
towns.
2) Many southerners, eager to shake off the "stigma" of rebellion,
enthusiastically signed up for subsequent Union wars, particularly
World War I. This created a culture where millitary service was
considered a high status profession.
Then again, the scars of the war still persist. Listen to Clearance
Clearwater Revival, and you can hear many themes hostile to the
government in Washington DC and to governments in general.
smartass sob|4.16.09 @ 12:46AM|#
Listen to Clearance Clearwater Revival,
I thought it was Creedence Clearwater Revival.
|4.16.09 @ 1:02AM|#
"This made millitary careers unusually attractive. To this
day, many southerners see a millitary career as the only way to
escape to poverty endemic to their home towns.
2) Many southerners, eager to shake off the "stigma" of rebellion,
enthusiastically signed up for subsequent Union wars, particularly
World War I. This created a culture where millitary service was
considered a high status profession."
Christ, someone please buy this man a clue.
|4.16.09 @ 1:12AM|#
Or at least keep him away from MNG, lest he start mumbling about poor benighted masses of Gaza, as opposed to every other massively oppressed people in the world, in his sleep.
smartass sob|4.16.09 @ 1:15AM|#
@SIV | April 15, 2009, 6:50pm | #
From the article you linked to:
Mike Smart, a 51-year-old oil field worker from West Texas,
held up a white handwritten sign that said, "I'll keep my freedom,
my $ and my guns. You keep the change."
That's the cleverest line I've heard since B.O. took office.
;-)
|4.16.09 @ 1:45AM|#
the Confederates actually did surprisingly well.
They had far better officers, and they were also fighting for their
homes.
-jcr
|4.16.09 @ 2:35AM|#
I dreamed I saw Joe Boyle last night,
alive as you and me.
Who is this joe boyle person?
Any relation to Susan Boyle ?
Elemenope|4.16.09 @ 3:37AM|#
Who is this joe boyle person?
The old, reliably liberal joe, intelligent and articulate (if
occasionally pugnacious) board regular, till he threw a temper
tantrum regarding some minor point about reading racism into a
cartoon or something and stormed off, never to be heard from
again.
green mamba|4.16.09 @ 5:14AM|#
"Listen to Clearance Clearwater Revival..."
The members of Creedence hailed from Berkeley, CA. The whole bayou
thing was mad up.
green mamba|4.16.09 @ 5:18AM|#
Oops, "made up". I must have got orthographically stuck on
Solana's Rachel Maddow reference above:
"Rachel Maddow, on the other hand, got a frighteningly large roar
of disdain."
That sounds like a protest worth attending.
smartass sob|4.16.09 @ 6:52AM|#
For some real "perspective" on how women (and men) are treated
in wonderful Afganistan go
here
Something like this kinda makes one want to nuke the place 'til it
glows in the dark.
MJ|4.16.09 @ 7:01AM|#
Homosexuals are protesting the wrong thing. The unfairness is the progressive tax system.
MNG|4.16.09 @ 7:45AM|#
"The unfairness is the progressive tax system."
Nobody on this thread makes so much that they have a basis to bitch
about being the victim of the "progressive tax system." You wish
Galt wanna bes.
Tarran
Well, the Confederates had some advantages too. The war was a
defensive one for them, they just had to not lose, they did not
have to win. Hell, look at Vietnam for that (the US had a slight
advantage in munitions and stuff there, but how'd it turn it
out)?
Also, the Confederate culture and mentality had something to do
with them not being able to match the North Industrially. Simply
put the Southern culture back then had much to do with being
arrogant, unnuanced fools, something they've continued to nurture
as a region...
As to why the South later became so lovin' on the military, I
imagine it had to do with partly what you mention in getting over
the stigma; the man who got whipped in a big fight often takes on a
over-the-top obsession with being tough the rest of his
life...
"Or at least keep him away from MNG, lest he start mumbling about
poor benighted masses of Gaza, as opposed to every other massively
oppressed people in the world"
This always tickles me. The one oppressed people we don't talk much
about in the US, because of our bizarre ties with their oppressors,
are the Palestinians, and then if anyone mentions them, then that
person is obsessed with them above all others.
As I've said countless times there are many people who are being
oppressed that I am concerned with. I realize that for people who
worship authority and strength(conservatives and some of these
pseudo-libertarian conservatives here) concern for an oppressed
people equals some kind of obsession to be ridiculed, but the fact
is that I care about human rights, broadly. I'm "obsessed" with the
Kurds getting their own land (almost there), with the people of
Tibet being freed (worked to oppose MFN for China back in the day),
and with bringing democracy and rights to the people's of thuggish
regimes like N. Korea, Cuba, and pretty much all of Africa. But
yes, I care about the Palestinians too, because I apply my
principles neutrally to all cases into which they fall.
And what further gets me is that it is not like I just started
talking up th Gazans problems out of nowhere. I did so because, er,
there was this WAR WHERE A COUPLE THOUSAND OF THEM, MOST NOT HAMAS
SUPPORTERS, GOT KILLED. So it made that particular problem in the
world a bit more topical.
See, brainiac?
|4.16.09 @ 7:51AM|#
"Rachel Maddow, on the other hand, got a frighteningly large
roar of disdain."
That sounds like a protest worth attending.
Oh, it was.
VM|4.16.09 @ 8:28AM|#
it's the spending that's killing us. these same quibbledix who
are protesting, still seem all happy for someone else to foot the
bill for all these "entitlements".
get the spending down first.
stuartl|4.16.09 @ 8:33AM|#
Nobody on this thread makes so much that they have a basis
to bitch about being the victim of the "progressive tax
system."
Strange claim. Are you saying nobody on this board is in the upper
50% that actually pays income taxes? Or is it the top 5% that pays
the majority of income taxes? I'm sure almost all of the
non-students on this board are in the first group. Many commenters
have mentioned that they are in their later years, some surely have
income earning spouses, so being in the second group is probably
fairly common as well.
stuartl|4.16.09 @ 9:00AM|#
To go a little further, this
article shows that the top 20% of income earners suffers from
our progressive tax system.
Since many commenters on these boards are engineers and lawyers,
both professions whose fresh outs are nearly in the top quintile, I
would say that many of the commenters on this thread do in fact
have a "basis to bitch" about our progressive tax system.
dhex|4.16.09 @ 9:30AM|#
it's the spending that's killing us.
yup. and sadly, opposition to spending is so often strictly
partisan. they seem to either want to spend it blowing shit up or
buying shit up.
Granite26|4.16.09 @ 9:32AM|#
I attended the Houston Tea Party... I really felt that these
guys (the protesters) might have more traction if they'd woken up
to excessive government intervention before a Democrat got
elected... As it stands, it felt like a very partisan
protest.
OTOH, Holy Shit there was a huge number of cops out...
Ravac|4.16.09 @ 9:44AM|#
The old, reliably liberal joe, intelligent and articulate
(if occasionally pugnacious) board regular, till he threw a temper
tantrum regarding some minor point about reading racism into a
cartoon or something and stormed off, never to be heard from
again.
I'd wondered where he disappeared to.
ChrisO|4.16.09 @ 10:59AM|#
MNG, Considering the fact that the Union army outnumbered
the Confederate Army by a ratio of two to one, that the Union had a
far more developed railroad network and an industrial base that
supplied nearly 10 times the munitions that Confederate industrial
base could produce, the Confederates actually did surprisingly
well.
More than that, the Confederacy almost won the war. Had the Battle
of Gettysburg gone the other way, Washington DC would likely have
been encircled by Confederate armies, and European countries would
have recognized and given assistance to the Confederacy. That's how
close a deal it was.
Man for man, the Confederate army was probably better; it just
didn't have enough of them, or enough munitions for them.
High Every Body|4.16.09 @ 11:03AM|#
ChrisO,
Don't forget that the Confederacy inflicted twice as many
casualties on the Union than they suffered.
High Every Body|4.16.09 @ 11:05AM|#
Wait, was that some gay person upthread complaining, on a Libertarian board, that he is not going to get a government handout when his partner dies?
|4.16.09 @ 4:16PM|#
introduces a range of Taliban-like restrictions on women,
and permits, among other things, marital rape.
The article attempts to imply that the marital rape rule is an
aberrant invention of the Taliban, when in fact it follows
naturally from Quran and Hadith. Indeed, Islamic law doesn't
consider forcible copulation with your wife to be rape.
Quran 23:5. "And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private
parts, from illegal sexual acts).
Quran 23:6. Except from their wives or (the captives and slaves)
that their right hands possess, for then, they are free from
blame;"
"Allah's Apostle said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed
(i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to
sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning." --
Bukhari, 4.54.460
Here's what a major Hanafi legal manual (The Hidayah) says about
taking your wife by force:
"One can enjoy a wife by force"
"But not if she be refractory."
"If a wife be disobedient or refractory and go abroad without her
husband's consent, she is not entitled to any support from him,
until she return and make submission, because the rejection of the
matrimonial restraint in this instance originates with her; but
when she returns home, she is then subject to it, for which reason
she again becomes entitled to her support as before. It is
otherwise where a woman, residing in the house of her husband,
refuses to admit him to the conjugal embrace, as she is entitled to
maintenance, notwithstanding her opposition, because being then in
his power, he may, if he please, enjoy her by force.""
Charles Hamilton (Trans.) The Hedaya. Commentary on the Islamic
Laws (Delhi) 1994 (2nd Edition 1870)
|4.16.09 @ 4:37PM|#
I didn't leave because of a minor point about racism on the
chimpanzee thread. In case you didn't notice, I'd been away for a
few weeks before that thread even appeared.
I bailed because of the dishonest jackassery the dominates every
thread and the horse shit that passes for thought among the writers
and most of the commentariat, particularly when I dare to write
something. The appearance of said dishonest jackassery on that
particularly thread was what drove me off more or less for good,
not any minor point about racism.
There used to be a point to arguing and reading here, but that
moment has passed. Look at the pathetic responses about how I'm
being a dishonest dick for claiming that the teabagging turnout was
low.
Guess what? It was low. Barack Obama has addressed crowds larger
than the entire national turnout for these protests. Oh, that can't
be true, cuz joe's mean. Shove it. I'm mean, and I'm right.
|4.17.09 @ 11:25AM|#
I don't think your mean Joe. I just disagree with your crowd
estiamte in Boston. I was at the commons for three hours and I am
sure there were more than a 1000 people there. You said this was
ridiculous.
I am not saying that is bigger than Obama's crowds(not even close).
I have pictures of the crowd I can show you that easily make 1000
people look like a reasonable estimate. I'll be happy to email them
to anyone who wants to see.
now that your back people want to hear your thoughts on
...increasing faith based funding, increasing federal power to
domestically spy, increasing the brutal force of marijuana raids
that violate states rights.
You still think Obama appointees like Richard Haas are
fundamentally different than the Bush crew?
You really think Geitner is different than Pauslon?!
Oh how we miss being voyeurs to your self delusion.
|4.17.09 @ 1:37PM|#
Barack Obama has addressed crowds larger than the entire
national turnout for these protests.
Crack used to be popular too. Doesn't mean it's good for you!
Robert|4.17.09 @ 9:55PM|#
Tax day was protest day 30 years ago. By April 15, 1990 it'd already gone downhill considerably as a day of focus on protest. It'd have to get back up a good deal to get to where it was 25-30 yrs. ago.
Brett Stevens|4.20.09 @ 11:35AM|#
Part of "freedom" is letting people decide they want traditional
attitudes toward sexuality.
Among other things, those highly conservative people seem less
neurotic than us moderns.
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