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First Discussion, Then Total Surveillance
The U.K. already has more surveillance cameras per capita than any other country. Now the British government plans to monitor every phone call, text message, email, and Web site visit, entering the information into an enormous database that would be used to catch terrorists, pedophiles, and scam artists. The London Times reports that "MI5 [the domestic spy agency] currently conducts limited e-mail and website intercepts which are approved under specific warrants by the home secretary." Dominic Grieve, the shadow home secretary, calls the plan "a substantial shift in the powers of the state to obtain information on individuals" and warns that "any suggestion of the government using existing powers to intercept communications data without public discussion is going to sound extremely sinister." You think?
Although the U.S. government is moving in the same direction, it is taking less dramatic steps and must overcome bigger political and legal obstacles. It's pretty clear from Grieve's comments that Britain will end up with something similar to the electronic dragnet the government wants, once the "public discussion" is out of the way. But such a move in this country would require either a constitutional amendment or a complete abdication of judicial responsibility. Although the courts have whittled away at the Fourth Amendment over the years, first to assist the War on Drugs and now to assist the War on Terror, it still counts for something. Or so I like to think.
[via The Freedom Files]
Elemenope|10.17.08 @ 11:49AM|#
Wasn't George Orwell a brit?
I'm just saying, they have no excuse: They had their very own
native prophet for this sort of shit.
Number 6|10.17.08 @ 12:00PM|#
non-eMoose: He was a poor Ahmurcan, always talking about not trusting the govmint and not putting his country first.
|10.17.08 @ 12:04PM|#
It's not total surveillance. There isn't a chip in their heads yet. Stop being such a bed-wetter, Jacob. What do you have to hide?
|10.17.08 @ 12:12PM|#
They don't need to change the constitution. Just have a old cia asset some secretive mossad group detonate a nuclear bomb on indianapolis and then order all the phone companies to help the government uncover the terrorist by complying with the new secret surveilance programs....then slowly let the details make there way out to the public and have the house pass a bill giving immunity to anybody who helps. Condemn anyone who disagrees as being a conspiracy nut or part of Al Qaeda. Dress up a brown skinned guy in a beard and have the captions spell out "Down with america and their xboxes and budweiser, we hate playboy magazine" then all the people will forget about the surveilance and beg for the chip.
|10.17.08 @ 12:16PM|#
I think Orwell was a Brit. The funny part is that back in 1984,
the year not book, people would have called you a paranoid idiot
for claiming Brition would one day have the surveillance system now
being discussed.
Considering how Bush has changed the rules regarding our financial
informtaion, I'm fairly confident that our government can come up
with a way to permit this type of spying in the US without a
Constitutional amendment. The Constitution says nothing of the type
of communication we use now. Emails do not have the same 4th
amendment rights as regular mail. Therefore it could be argued that
digital versions of an older technology do not get the same
protection as the original. Start with that premise, and throw in
some terrorist will kill us if we don't do it and it could
succeed.
It might be that we need another Constitutional amendment if we
want protections to apply in the digital age.
Besides people in the US are already giving in to Little Brother.
Few People comment about the issue on H&R and didn't Kerry
Howley do an article on why we shouldn't fight the future?
DW|10.17.08 @ 12:25PM|#
A decorated former Israeli soldier in NJ overheard three fellow
Israelis talking about the 9/11 Attacks months before they
happened.
He heard several things: One, the Twin Towers would be attacked
with jets, two, The "Arabs are so stupid" they don't know how we
are using them!", three, we have plenty of people in high places to
insure the operation succeeds, and four, when it's over the
Americans will know what we go through.
Sometimes people provide better evidence than cameras, but if it's
not politically correct, it is not acted upon.
Tom Walls (Fla. not FL)|10.17.08 @ 12:27PM|#
It wouldn't surprise me if they start tracking visitors to
sports shooting websites, given the way they've treated firearms
enthusiasts in the UK in the past 15 or so years. After all, anyone
interested in firearms must be a terrorist, criminal or
crazy!
This just in: Australia Labor Govt to prohibit opt-out of
filtered Internet
|10.17.08 @ 12:32PM|#
Although the courts have whittled away at the Fourth
Amendment over the years, first to assist the War on Drugs and now
to assist the War on Terror, it still counts for
something.
Don't forget the war on drunk driving, which while it should
technically be considered part of the WOD, isn't. Honestly Jacob, I
can't think of any flagrant violations of the forth amendment the
government has wanted to perform and been thwarted.
|10.17.08 @ 12:38PM|#
Warren, please do not compare getting high in your living room with drunk driving. One of these endangers the safety of others, the other does not.
Not That Michael|10.17.08 @ 12:45PM|#
I find it baffling that government officials still believe to this day that expanding state surveillance exponentially will lead to better security or more effective population control. Didn't the Stasi implement this model long ago? How did that work out?
|10.17.08 @ 12:47PM|#
"...and Web site visit, entering the information into an
enormous database that would be used to catch terrorists,
pedophiles, scam artists, and REASON commenters."
Uh, this was an accidental post. Uh, the cleaning lady must have
accidently hit the URL for the site when she was dusting the
keyboard, I swear!!! I don't know anything about those libertarian
antigovernemnt nuts!!! I don't know who Sugarfree is! Um, I mean
sugardfree is like splenda, only more tart?
|10.17.08 @ 12:48PM|#
Although the courts have whittled away at the Fourth
Amendment over the years, first to assist the War on Drugs and now
to assist the War on Terror, it still counts for something. Or so I
like to think.
Aww... that's so cute that you still believe in Constitutional
protections.
Franklin Harris|10.17.08 @ 12:49PM|#
The foreign secretary requests that Reason, from now on, refer to the United Kingdom by its official name, Airstrip One.
|10.17.08 @ 1:03PM|#
The FBI is now able to do "assessments" (whatever that means) on US citizens without warrants, probably cause, or reasonable suspiscion. I'd bet that reviewing your Internet travels are already fair game as part of that assessment. It will be interesting to see if anything used in a trial from an FBI assessment will be legal.
|10.17.08 @ 1:04PM|#
DW, got a link for that story?
Please do not feed the Truthers. It only agitates them...they can
smell the menstruation!
MAX HATS|10.17.08 @ 1:11PM|#
If the UK starts to monitor and log everything, it's worth
noting that a good fraction of US electronic communications pass
through their net. Our governments are of course very friendly, and
have a long history of sharing intelligence.
But, no one cares. Folks aren't going to be concerned about privacy
until something happens that shows people how little they have.
Something like google records being left public or something. It's
amazing how little awareness or concern there is about the
issue.
|10.17.08 @ 1:20PM|#
But such a move in this country would require... a complete
abdication of judicial responsibility.
So, any minute now.
|10.17.08 @ 1:30PM|#
What's wrong, no one else can type Israel intelligence 9/11 in
an Internet browser?
This site has some interesting stuff.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=israel_institute_for_intelligence_and_special_tasks
I have heard DW's claim and seen it reported before, it's nothing
new. It would be hard to corroborate what the alleged intel officer
said. Isn't that usually the case with intel officers? But
something interesting as reported by that site, is the 5 israelis
that were arrested, their relation to a moving company when we had
reports that Mossad was spying in the US and using moving companies
as a cover.
It is possible that Israel would want us to experience an event
that would make their war our war since they haven't made much
headway in their history. That doesn't mean they were behind it,
even if an Mossad agent believes it to be true.
TAO, I see your tactic. If DW replys, you link him to the truthers
so you can beat him over the head with guilty by association.
|10.17.08 @ 1:36PM|#
""" Something like google records being left public or
something. It's amazing how little awareness or concern there is
about the issue."""
Which is why DHS wants to define privacy as the protection of your
information. Your scenario would be considered a breach of privacy
by the feds, the citizens would agree, promises would be made, and
everything returns to what it was, the spying continues.
|10.17.08 @ 1:37PM|#
It is worth remembering that all of this has happened under the
Labour Party's, the closest UK analog to the US Democrats, watch
and not the Tories (conservative party). After all, what are a few
cameras when the Labour Party is the party of the children? Won't
you think about the children?
given the way they've treated firearms enthusiasts in the UK in
the past 15 or so years.
The attack on firearm owners has been bloody well going on longer
than 15 years. When I last renewed my UK shotgun certificate (lived
in UK 76-83 & 86-92)I had to have the form signed by the local
cop with him attesting to my character. The wife beating piece of
shit cop (it was a small village in the highlands, everyone knew
everyone's business)was testifying to the strength of my character,
effing amazing.
Besides having Joe Bidden as a Senator, living in Scotland all
those years (17.4% VAT & 50% taxes) is what changed me to be so
anti-Democratic Party. I am only pro-Republican by default.
Spreading the wealth in the UK means my lay about (ex-)
brother-in-laws, both in perfect health, are probably sitting in
their council flats in New Castle watch TV - drunk- and planning
their next trips to Spain for holiday while only doing the odd job
on the side without paying any taxes. Assholes both, though they
are not alone.
|10.17.08 @ 1:42PM|#
That doesn't mean they were behind it, even if an Mossad
agent believes it to be true.
Then why the hell talk about it?
Implying that Israel somehow knew/instigated the event is dirty
fucking pool and about as low as it gets.
rhywun|10.17.08 @ 1:51PM|#
A decorated former Israeli soldier in NJ overheard three fellow Israelis talking about the 9/11 Attacks months before they happened.
I bet it was that guy who "wasn't" sleeping with the
Governor.
Australia Labor Govt to prohibit opt-out of filtered Internet
Holy crap. That's so People's Republic.
|10.17.08 @ 1:52PM|#
oh, and untrue, as an added bonus.
IOW, if it were true, it would be "dirty fucking pool and about as
low as it gets" to mention it?
|10.17.08 @ 2:05PM|#
So you hate people that have a different opinion of 9/11 than you do, I get that.
|10.17.08 @ 2:08PM|#
TAO,
Now you can play hate the news agency.
http://web.archive.org/web/20020802194310/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html
|10.17.08 @ 2:25PM|#
Seamus - I was being glib.
TrickyVic - I don't see anything in that abcnews link but
speculation and sensationalism.
No Name Guy|10.17.08 @ 3:00PM|#
Best way to fuck up a system of total surveilence is to jam it
up (just like the best way to beat a procedure driven asshole boss
is to follow the procedures to the letter, no matter how
stupid).
Include in every message you can, something about nuclear this and
bomb that and shoot everything else (hmmm...perhaps including
"immagine if the krauts had dropped a nuclear bomb on London in
1940" or some variation). The avalanche of chaff messages will make
the system so worthless they'll give up on wide spread
monitoring.
|10.17.08 @ 3:14PM|#
"""TrickyVic - I don't see anything in that abcnews link but
speculation and sensationalism."""
Because that's all you wanted to see. Which of those does the
actual arrest of the guys in the van fall under
Just Plain Brian|10.17.08 @ 3:19PM|#
The avalanche of chaff messages will make the system so worthless they'll give up on wide spread monitoring.
That's all true, and arguably wide spread monitoring doesn't work
for those types of reasons, even if people aren't deliberately
feeding false positives into the system.
But what if wide spread monitoring is only the excuse to collect
large amounts of data, but instead of data mining to find targets,
they start with the specific target and pull out as much
information as they want about those specific people or groups?
It's much easier to attack your political opponents if you have
massive amounts of private data on them.
I would imagine there is much less chance of being targeted as a
result of the data collection, and a much greater chance that those
that would already be targeted anyway would have more available
information to be used against them.
|10.17.08 @ 4:45PM|#
Tulpa:
http://www.muckrakerreport.com/id324.html
I tried to send you a direct email but got a server error twice
|10.17.08 @ 5:48PM|#
I always thought it was interesting that the former italian
president said 9/11 was a Mossad CIA job and it was common
knowledge amongst intelligence professionals.
Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga .
Google it, see if you believe any of the hundeds of links to
this.
Jason|10.18.08 @ 9:08AM|#
Features:
。Real time recording in AVI video format
。Internal memory:1 GB or 4GB
。Playback video on PC
。Video compression : AVI video format,640X480
。Video file size; >500KB per min
。Recording mode :continuous recording until memory is full or
manually off
。Adaptor type: USB adaptor charging cable
。Battery type : Lithium-ion
。Record time : up to 3hours
User Manual:
1.The smallest camera in the worldwide, hidden in pen, with audio
and video recording.
2.High sensitive microphone, can be records the voice in the 15
square meter, high resolution, fancy design, good write function of
the pen.
3.Suitable for any device which have USB port
4.USB2.0, no need diver, no need extra power
5.Support WINDOWS98/98SE/ME/2000/XP/MAS OS/ LINUX system
6.Read speed: 900k/700k/sec (depend on host speed)
Parameter:
A.Resolution：640*480 or 320*40
B.R/f：15~30FP/S
C.Sensitive：0.6LUX（1.3V/LUX/SEC）
D.Dimension：8*8
E.Camera optics：2.8MM
F.Focus：2.6MM
How to use:
Note：1. camera 2. Microphone hole 3.USB 4.indicator led 5. Power
on/off button 6.reset hole
1. Press power button for three seconds, the indicator led turn
red, press again start recording. During the recording the
indicator led is flickering
2. During the recording press the power button again, it will save
the video, and change to stand by status, during this time the
indicator led is red.
3. During the stand by status press the power button again, it will
start recording again, and the indicator led is flickering.
4. Press the power button for five seconds then the device will
power off, the indicator led will no work.
5. When the battery use out, it will power off automatically, it
will save the video automatically.
6. During the charge via USB, the indicator LED turn green
7. When it charged full, the indicator led turn off, it mean the
battery charged full.
How to set the date and time:
This version adds a function to set year-mounth-date
hour:minute:second, and will be shown when playback. please setting
the time correctly as follow:
1.edit a .TXTfile, as: 20080929100828 this is the current time,
check carefully and make the correct format.
2.name the txt file as userconfig.txt
3.insert the recorder-pen to your computer, copy userconfig.txt to
the root of the U_DISK of the pen.
4. remove the pen from your computer, power off the pen, then power
on, now the time will be setting.
5. when complete, the time will be save forever.
Jason|10.18.08 @ 9:10AM|#
New Pen dvr
Features:
。Real time recording in AVI video format
。Internal memory:1 GB or 4GB
。Playback video on PC
。Video compression : AVI video format,640X480
。Video file size; >500KB per min
。Recording mode :continuous recording until memory is full or
manually off
。Adaptor type: USB adaptor charging cable
。Battery type : Lithium-ion
。Record time : up to 3hours
User Manual:
1.The smallest camera in the worldwide, hidden in pen, with audio
and video recording.
2.High sensitive microphone, can be records the voice in the 15
square meter, high resolution, fancy design, good write function of
the pen.
3.Suitable for any device which have USB port
4.USB2.0, no need diver, no need extra power
5.Support WINDOWS98/98SE/ME/2000/XP/MAS OS/ LINUX system
6.Read speed: 900k/700k/sec (depend on host speed)
Parameter:
A.Resolution：640*480 or 320*40
B.R/f：15~30FP/S
C.Sensitive：0.6LUX（1.3V/LUX/SEC）
D.Dimension：8*8
E.Camera optics：2.8MM
F.Focus：2.6MM
How to use:
Note：1. camera 2. Microphone hole 3.USB 4.indicator led 5. Power
on/off button 6.reset hole
1. Press power button for three seconds, the indicator led turn
red, press again start recording. During the recording the
indicator led is flickering
2. During the recording press the power button again, it will save
the video, and change to stand by status, during this time the
indicator led is red.
3. During the stand by status press the power button again, it will
start recording again, and the indicator led is flickering.
4. Press the power button for five seconds then the device will
power off, the indicator led will no work.
5. When the battery use out, it will power off automatically, it
will save the video automatically.
6. During the charge via USB, the indicator LED turn green
7. When it charged full, the indicator led turn off, it mean the
battery charged full.
How to set the date and time:
This version adds a function to set year-mounth-date
hour:minute:second, and will be shown when playback. please setting
the time correctly as follow:
1.edit a .TXTfile, as: 20080929100828 this is the current time,
check carefully and make the correct format.
2.name the txt file as userconfig.txt
3.insert the recorder-pen to your computer, copy userconfig.txt to
the root of the U_DISK of the pen.
4. remove the pen from your computer, power off the pen, then power
on, now the time will be setting.
5. when complete, the time will be save forever.
http://www.wondcam.com
|10.20.08 @ 9:48AM|#
I am sure the next step will be to require everyone to carry cell phones. There was a case in GB a few months back where two men were prosecuted on terrorism charges. Part of the evidence was that they sometimes left their phones at home when they went out. A condition of their release was that they carry phones with them at all times. The telcos can turn the phones on and use them to eavesdrop anything said near them w/o your knowledge. Wouldn't surprise me if they can see through the camera, that's probably why all phones now have them.
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