Brian Doherty | December 4, 2007
Big kudos to Phil Leggiere for compiling this time line with links of questionable actions from the Bush administration vis a vis government secrecy and our Constitutional rights as citizens of these here United States. As great a candidate for mass-mailing to all your loved ones as I've seen in a long time.
[Hat tip: R.U. Sirius.]
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Please don't encourage mass-emails. It's a downward spiral until
we're talking footprints in the sand and reasons why men are like
dogs or beer.
That's gotta violate some sort of human right. And Bush is behind
the e-mails about footprints in the sand.
Continue to get away with enough shit and the public becomes
desensitized to it, allowing the getting away with of more
shit.
Ugh...
Simple frog-water phenomenon, Taktix.
All those Bushies just think it's a nice warm bath right now, until
Hillary takes over.
Then it'll become lava.
Start making sense or I'm going to huck rocks at
you.
This would be an act of extremism Jamie.
I'm shocked, shocked to find that Bush's disregard of civil
liberties and paranoic secrecy justifications predate Sept 11,
2001.
Not really, but I would be if I were a dumbass.
And now here is a list of all terrorist attacks since
9/11:
1)
That is all. Freedom from fear is the greatest freedom of all.
Just a minor quibble...the title makes it seem like ol' Dubya is
some all-seeing eye like Sauron, when in fact, there is plenty of
blame to go around the 3 branches. That timeline reads like a
fucking conspiracy of cabals.
Might as well read "Bill of Rights under Lott" or Fritch or Pelosi
or Renquist. Not to defend Dubya, but they all have blood on their
hands.
I am NOT suggesting that the Bushies haven't been especially bad about this sort of thing, but I would be interested in similar timelines for other administrations.
US Supreme Court rules that medical necessity is not a
permissible defense against federal marijuana statutes
So Bush was responsible for a unanimous Supreme Court decision?
Back to civics class you patchouli-stinkin' communist hippies.
am NOT suggesting that the Bushies haven't been especially
bad about this sort of thing, but I would be interested in similar
timelines for other administrations.
But....but....that wouldn't fit the narrative!
Not to defend Dubya, but they all have blood on their
hands.
And all have been roundly condemned in these parts. The rest of
America won't listen. It's like shouting into a hurricane. That
does it, Tullamore Dew time!
Depressing stuff no doubt. For an even scarier synopsis of the
Bush years, go check out Naomi Wolf's "Ten Steps to Close Down an
Open Society" at the Huffington Post.
But does anyone think the Democrats will reverse course? Sure, a
few of them would be less likely to continue on the same course,
but is it enough to just stop. I think we've got to reverse
directions and get our freedom back. But the candidates aren't
talking about this stuff--they're focused on health care, social
security, gas prices, etc. How can anyone honestly give a shit
about those things when it's clear we're headed towards a fascist
regime?
John,
Naomi Wolf seems pretty critical of the administration. Has our
thug class dragged her off to the gulag for a little waterboarding
torture yet? Or did that work as well as the Great Purge of the few
courageous academics who dared to criticize Bush. The HuffPo piece
is classic derangement syndrome.Crying Wolf even.
"but I would be interested in similar timelines for other
administrations."
Yeah - particularly FDR - a president who instigated massive
violations of the Constituton on a far greater scale than any other
president - violations that have had a far greater real-world
effect on the lives of US citizens (and for far longer too) than
anything George Bush has done.
And now here is a list of all terrorist attacks since
9/11:
1)
And here is the proof that massive violations of constitutional
civil liberties have stopped a terrorist attack on American
soil:
________________________________
That is all.
Case-Studies: Lisa Simpson's Tiger-Repellant Rock
A nice illustration of a fallacy from The Simpsons:
After a single bear wandering into town has drawn an over-reaction
from the residents of Springfield, Homer stands outside his house
and muses, "Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol is working like a
charm!"
Lisa sees through his reasoning: "That's specious reasoning, dad."
Homer, misunderstanding the word "specious", thanks her for the
compliment.
Optimistically, she tries to explain the error in his argument: "By
your logic, I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away." Homer
is confused: "Hmm; how does it work?" Lisa: "It doesn't work; it's
just a stupid rock!" Homer: "Uh-huh." Lisa: "... but I don't see
any tigers around, do you?"
Homer, after a moment's thought: "Lisa, I want to buy your
rock..."
Correllation does not imply causation. Just because two things
occur together, does not mean that one caused the other. Homer
argues that as the Bear Patrol vans are correlated with an absence
of bears, the former must have caused the latter. Lisa, tongue in
cheek, argues that as the presence of her rock is correlated with
an absence of tigers, the former must have caused the latter.
At least Homer recognises that the two arguments are on a par, even
if he fails to recognise that both are examples of the correlation
not causation fallacy.
http://www.criticalthinking.org.uk/tigerrepellantrock.html
Freedom from fear is the greatest freedom of all.
So it's a shame you're so scared of al Qaeda thta you'd give up
freedom to assuage your fear.
Geotpf,
the whole rant could have been summed up:
'correlation is not causation'
pretty familiar with that idea around here.
However, I do appreciate the Simpsons reference.
Taktix® | December 4, 2007, 4:56pm | #
Continue to get away with enough shit and the public becomes
desensitized to it, allowing the getting away with of more
shit.
Ugh...
Agreed. It has been a slippery slope for a few decades now.
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE!
AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE COUNTRY, YOU ARE VERY FREE TO LEAVE.
You Bush haters are a bunch of ignorant, paranoia junkies. I
thought REASON was a bit better than this...
I WAS WRONG.
Our civil liberties have not been taken away, we are fighting a
war! Smarten up, and don't drown in all that KOOL AID!
"AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE COUNTRY, YOU ARE VERY FREE TO
LEAVE."
I don't think you can legally leave the USA without a valid
passport / visa. Your logic is one big steaming bowl of FAIL.
I don't think you can legally leave the USA without a valid passport / visa.
Actually, there is no requirement to have a passport to
leave the country. The problem arises if you try to
return.
On the other hand, airlines are reluctant to carry you to another
country if you do not have proper documentation since they have to
return you if you are denied entry to the country of destination.
If you have a return ticket they do not have as big a problem.
Begin/Off topic rant/
Please people, it is not that hard to become properly informed in
matters such as your rights in international travel, the rights of
immigrants etc. These are all matters of public record.
It is not that hard to become acquainted with your legal rights as
to, for example, what happens if you fall in love with and marry
someone who is a foreign national. What happens if you have a child
in his/her country? What happens if you try to return to the USA
and bring your beloved with you?
Now, if you spend some time looking at US immigration law, you will
find it is a Byzantine labyrinth from which you are unlikely to
emerge without the aid of an expert guide.
Complain about all things if you will, but be sure you actually
know whereof you complain.
/Off topic rant/end
And all have been roundly condemned in these parts. The rest
of America won't listen. It's like shouting into a
hurricane.
Agreed, but the point remains, he might as well called the post
"Bill of Rights While I ate Cheerios™ for Breakfast Every Morning"
or "While Celebrities Adopted Foreign Brown Babies."
Funny how things had already started way before 9/11.
makes one ponder that Democrat operatives are trolling for the
civil liberties vote among the young and those with short memories.
Otherwise why begin with Bush and use some examples that have
nothing to do with the Executive Branch and others that have
nothing to do with the Bill of Rights.
Pretty weak link that only links to, and doesn't cite (i.e.,
name/date/pub name) its sources.
Plus, JaneHarman's name is on the last one he mentions.
Overall, none of these are much to get excited about.
FJE78312-OPCEN-393FE-CD32-42-383-GDE92-213LI-ON493
BLOCK-12934-UEQUD-EUEWY-37192-JAUE3-JCEUQ-DSUEW
FJE78312-OPCEN-393FE-CD32-42-383-GDE92-213LI-ON493
BLOCK-12934-UEQUD-EUEWY-37192-JAUE3-JCEUQ-DSUEW
Is this his next inexplicable tic, soon to replace WordsRunTogether
ForNoReason?
SIV, Yeah frickin annoying. I'm sure most people here have seen it over and over on medical marijuana and the drug war in general (on other boards typically). As if the Clinton admin and Democrats ever gave a flying F about the suffering of cancer patients. Yeah, that's it, they were just about to legalize when the Republicans grabbed power in 2000. Just to annoy those sorts of dumb-asses, I plan on spending most of '08 proclaiming Bush the best president we ever had. Keeping a straight face will be the toughest part, but I think it will be well worth it.
Anonymo the Anonymous: please ignore that bit. I composed my
comment in notepad together with something else, and then
mistakenly pasted the whole thing into the comment box.
Hopefully Reason could delete that part of my comment, as well as
your quote containing that part of my comment. It's just something
else and it has nothing to do with Reason or this post or the other
commenters.
I blame GWB for a lot of things, like proving beyond the shadow of a doubt the Republicans are BIG SPENDING DONKEY WEE KNEES. But, the Republic was on a sled to hell with greased runners LONG before GWB swore the oath. Like Hank Williams Jr sang about, GWB is just carrying on a family tradition. And I mean that in both ways, metaphorically and in actuality.
Naomi Wolf seems pretty critical of the administration. Has our thug class dragged her off to the gulag for a little waterboarding torture yet? Or did that work as well as the Great Purge of the few courageous academics who dared to criticize Bush.
Ms. Wolf has not been arrested, but we're not at that stage
yet.
Interestingly, however, she has been added to the "terror
watch list" for airline travel, which means she gets the full
bag-and-body search every time she goes through a TSA
checkpoint.
Five-foot-four Jewish mother of two. A terrorist threat? No, just a
critic of the Bush administration. And there are many others who
have been put on "the list" for speaking out.
Hey, raise your hands and say "YEAH!" if your a George W. Bush
fan!
*crickets*
Ok, now with that disclaimer out of the way,
that list
1) Conflates the nefarious, with the problematic, with the
bureaucratic, with the incompetent, and with the (dare I say it)
maybe slightly useful and necessary. A little perspective and
context in these things would be nice when compiling stuff like
this, otherwise you're just one step away from the 'gang stalking'
crowd.
2) Doesn't contain too much more stuff then I imagine we would have
seen from a Gore Administration with an AG Louis Freeh justice
department. I too would have liked the list maker to start in the
90's (or really, with the '37 Marihuana Tax Act). That the list the
politically hackish of course doesn't make it wrong, but it does
make it less persuasive.
"Freedom from fear is the greatest freedom of all."
Bread and circuses...
Actually, the best line I have for this comes from Stephen
Colbert:
"Live Free, or do whatever it takes so I don't die."
I think he mentioned
accidentally clicked submit...
As I was saying,
In that same segment, I think he mentioned the increased
Presidential power and his REAL reason for running for
president:
"Because I would be insane to let someone have that kind of power
over me"
Funny how things had already started way before 9/11.
Starting with, who, Wilson? Roosevelt?
Not that the domestic side of the WOT hasn't been a gigantic
clusterdoggle, but its hard to say it did anything more than
accelerate pre-existing trends.
Please keep my name out of your mouth. Thank you.
Sincerely,
FJE78312-OPCEN-393FE-CD32-42-383-GDE92-213LI-ON493
BLOCK-12934-UEQUD-EUEWY-37192-JAUE3-JCEUQ-DSUEW
Interestingly, however, she has been added to the "terror
watch list" for airline travel, which means she gets the full
bag-and-body search every time she goes through a TSA
checkpoint.
That kind of factual assertion is often enhanced by linky.
And I, for one, don't really regard a self-interested and
uncorroborated assertion by Ms. Wolf that she is on said list as
much in the way of proof.
Not that the TSA isn't easily stupid enough to put her on the list,
of course.
For all of the abuses that we all acknowledge, there certainly
is a lot of "yeah, but" going on hier. GWB is president. the buck
stops there. He's the ultimate one to blame.
For all of the "[Gore/HRC/Reno] would be worse", we're not there
right now. We have abuses that are right in front of our noses that
have been committed by GWB et al. Let's focus on that. Or is there
a problem with condemning behavior?
We have abuses that are right in front of our noses that
have been committed by GWB et al. Let's focus on that. Or is there
a problem with condemning behavior?
Why not just give credit where credit is due? By focusing solely on
Bush, the rest of the thugs get off with nary a hand smack. I get
what you're saying, but you end up with statements that simply
aren't true.
You also avoid the taint of BDS. Blaming Bush for all ills is a
good way to be ignored as just another frothing partisan.
You miss the point - we have plenty of real abuses going on.
Fantasizing about how things would be in another administration
takes away from things.
And it's not blaming bush for all ills. It's pointing out specific
things that have happened under his leadership.
Deflecting the issue away from that very important fact makes those
who do it seem like a partisan who was caught and uses the "but
officer, I'm not the only one".
Or:
there is so much (justified oftentimes, but other times purely
hysterical) hatred of Janet Reno, that many people forget that Ruby
Ridge was a first bush problem. Basically a free pass.
We cannot have any free passes, and minimizing the abuses of this
administration cannot happen. Otherwise, when people object to HRC
if she were to do something outrageous, you'd look back and see
quasi apologies for this admin, and the cycle will continue. Only
that time, the people who're quasi defending GWB hier will be out,
a-gunz a-blazin with no qualifications or pulled punches.
And THAT is a problem for this citizen.
And it's not blaming bush for all ills. It's pointing out
specific things that have happened under his leadership.
Deflecting the issue away from that very important fact makes those
who do it seem like a partisan who was caught and uses the "but
officer, I'm not the only one".
VM--We're just going to have to disagree hier. Claiming that
Supreme Court decisions or congressional action fall under the
auspices of Bush's "leadership" is the free pass you are
protesting.
Bush should get hammered for what Bush did: executive orders, bills
signed (or not vetoed), wars launched or SCOTUS appointments. Being
a proponent of free will, I operate under the assumption that the
other perople working against civil liberties did that all on their
own. They deserve the bitch slap for what they did, not what people
want to lay at Dubya's feet through convenience.
Why not have a timeline of Bush and Clinton? Why stop
there? Why not take it back to Reagan or Carter? That's where the
taint of BDS comes in.
I know I'm not defending Bush. My point is simple: put the blame
where it belongs (and, yes, don't fantasize how it might have been
different if someone else were at the helm. Let's just accept the
concept that its going to suck no matter who is in the White
House.)
Just as the POTUS doesn't deserve the credit when things, like the
economy, are going well, it doesn't deserve the tarring of the
actions of others which it had no control over.
pttttffff.
(actually - what you're saying shouldn't have gone over my thick
skull today - was just listening to someone go on and on about
blaming GWB for everything, conveniently forgetting that it was the
DEM Senate that voted carte blanche! or how Lehey (IIRC) was gung
ho about post oklahoma city bombing civil liberties
restrictions)
>>
Why not have a timeline of Bush and Clinton? Why stop there? Why
not take it back to Reagan or Carter?
>>
Seems to sum up some objections to providing a timeline of the
public facts about key congressional, executive and Supreme Court
actions related to civil liberties in the past few years. That --
and the fact that the title emphasized that it all took place under
Bush.
That was the assignment -- to create a timeline related to civil
liberties under the Bush Administration. Most projects, most
articles, have a beginning and an end. There will be other
projects. I wrote extensively about the attacks on civil liberties
under Clinton.
It's amazing that people here are so jumpy and defensive about Bush
. Also, the sense of entitlement expressed-- why don't they make me
a bigger timeline?! -- is amazing.
I'll resist the urge to say that some of the comments here seem
amazingly childish and simpleminded. I'm not saying that. No, not
at all. You don't need some living cartoon character who calls
himself RU Sirius telling you that you're acting immature, no
way.
RU
RU--That was pretty much a rhetorical question.
I think I've been very clear about my own very limited objection.
It's a fantastic piece you've put together, it's very sobering, it
just comes off as partisan and scapegoat-ish, which limits its
effectiveness with certain audiences.
YMMV.
"""Yeah - particularly FDR - a president who instigated massive
violations of the Constituton on a far greater scale than any other
president - violations that have had a far greater real-world
effect on the lives of US citizens (and for far longer too) than
anything George Bush has done.""""
I really disagree with that conclusion. Bush can monitor FAR more
than anything FDR could do because of technology. Lots of data
travels across the Internet. Don't think that 128 bit encryption
matters to the NSA. Pretty much anything you view on the Internet
can be viewed by the NSA. The surveillence mechanisms are far
greater today
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