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Ron Paul Pwns Alabama Straw Poll
Nobody's paying much attention to the Alabama Straw Poll, but Ron Paul just got 216 of 266 votes there—81 percent of the total.
Some caveats: It was much smaller than the Iowa or Illinois straw polls, smaller than the last Alabama poll in 1999 (won by Alan Keyes) and Mitt Romney didn't even bother to try and buy it. It was structured a little bit like Ames Straw Poll with voting card that cost $25 in advance, $35 at the door, and required an Alabama ID to pick up. No candidate came to speak: Baptist minister John Killian spoke for Paul. So there's a little grist for the cynics... for the true believers, 81 percent is better even than Paul usually does in online polls.
The rundown:
Paul 216
Romney 14
Hunter 10
Thompson 9
Giuliani 7
Huckabee 6
McCain 2
Brownback 2
Tancredo 0
Cox 0
Thanks to Stephen Gordon for the tip. Here's the thread at Ron Paul Forums.
|8.18.07 @ 3:54PM|#
Please help us digg this:
http://www.digg.com/2008_us_elections/Ron_Paul_Wins_By_Landslide_in_Alabama_Straw_Poll
|8.18.07 @ 3:59PM|#
Go Alabama! Normally I dislike the Deep South, but if Paul continues to walk over the Big Godverment conservatives there I may have to change my tune.
SIV|8.18.07 @ 4:07PM|#
Normally I dislike the Deep South
jb:
Well we aren't too fond of you either.
Please remain in whatever Yankee shit hole you abide in.
|8.18.07 @ 4:27PM|#
Yep, we want to tell it to those big government conservatives. Them with their desire to ban abortion, stop immigration and build a wall on the border, those theocrats who think that separation of church and state is a fraud. So Ron,... want a second??? Ron! Oh, never mind I forgot he wants to ban abortion, stop immigration, build the damn wall, and doesn't think separation of church and state is a valid concept (due to all those references to God he says are in the constitution -- well I didn't find them, but he assures us they are there_) So when it comes time to bash the big government conservatives, I'm all for it, now we just need a candidate who is for it as well.
|8.18.07 @ 4:37PM|#
Don't get too excited. They thought they were voting to add another 10,000 seats to the Bryant-Denny Stadium, but the butterfly ballet was confusing.
libertreee|8.18.07 @ 4:55PM|#
Oh, never mind I forgot he wants to ban abortion, stop immigration, build the damn wall, and doesn't think separation of church and state is a valid concept (due to all those references to God he says are in the constitution -- well I didn't find them, but he assures us they are there_dbh
I agree with you on these issues. RP says he wants to send abortion
to the states, and that is a controversial, minority, but
acceptable libertarian position. He then takes the more
unacceptable position that immigration can't be free until the
welfare state is gone. He also takes the extreme position that
international trade agreements are not pure enough to keep, and
while he is a free trader he thinks that the normally protectionist
Congress should have the only say because of " national
sovereignty." Besides the fact that sovereignty is less compromised
than he believes by these agreements, I thought libertarians were
more interested in individual sovereignty (like being able to buy
goods from all over the world, and contract with willing
transactors no matter how far they travel to contract with you,
etc. ) To be fair, with immigration he seems to regard citizenship
as very precious, which is a founding idea, but the Declaration of
Independence, while it only pertained to citizens strictly
speaking, is a more universalist document.
All these and a few other flaws aside, Dr. Paul is by far the most
libertarian candidate to try for a major party nomination possibly
in our entire sordid history, and is more libertarian than some LP
candidates or would be candidates.He is certainly more libertarian
than anyone in the current field. And he promises to make the
military industrial complex, the IRS and Fed Reserve his primary
targets in restoring constitutional government.
(Not that my anarchist side believes that constitutional government
is the best of all possible worlds, but it would be a welcome
relief from the fascist statism we have long endured).
He has my support. Ron Paul! Ron Paul! Ron Paul!
|8.18.07 @ 5:17PM|#
SIV,
The Deep South has for a long time been home to some of the least
libertarian strains of American politics out there, everything but
gun control.
Southerners are also quick to jump to extremes--in response to my
expression of personal preference for the North and West, SIV
called whole regions shitholes (although, to be honest I live in
Chicago which is not that much of a Libertarian stronghold either,
to say the least). What, will you challenge me to a duel next?
Fought with fighting cocks?
TrappedEastOfTheBigMuddy|8.18.07 @ 5:22PM|#
Don't get too excited. They thought they were voting to add another 10,000 seats to the Bryant-Denny Stadium, but the butterfly ballet was confusing.
That would do it.
Hmm...
Not sure if I hope they won't 'cause I don't want to deal with even
more traffic, or wish they would so I can profit
from reselling the tickets...
Dave B.|8.18.07 @ 5:33PM|#
jb -
You say you don't like the deep south, SIV says he doesn't like
where you're from, and somehow his statement proves yours
right?
|8.18.07 @ 5:47PM|#
Dave B: Sure, "I don't like" is less extreme than "is a shithole." I could have said in my first comment "The South is usually a shithole, but maybe this means a change for the better," but I didn't.
|8.18.07 @ 5:58PM|#
Ron Paul wins utterly meaningless straw poll. Film at
11:00.
The sad thing is, when it comes time to vote in the primary he'll
probably wind up with the same 216 votes.
|8.18.07 @ 6:10PM|#
He also won a New Hampshire County straw poll today with 73% of
the vote:
http://ronpaul2008.typepad.com/ron_paul_2008/2007/08/ron-paul-also-w.html
Paul 208 votes
Romney 26
Huckabee 20
Tancredo 8
McCain 7
Cox 5
Hunter 5
Fred Thompson 5
Giuliani 3
Brownback 1
SIV|8.18.07 @ 6:13PM|#
The Deep South has for a long time been home to some of the
least libertarian strains of American politics out there,
everything but gun control.
Actually the South is the most libertarian in distrust in,and
hostility to the Federal government,excluding the military.
SIV|8.18.07 @ 6:17PM|#
jb,
Anti-Southern bigotry is one of the few forms considered "socially
acceptable" yet we don't whine about it nearly as much(if at all)
as other "groups".
I travel extensively and though there are some places I don't like
I would never issue a blanket condemnation of a whole region of the
United States.
Brick Cheney|8.18.07 @ 6:25PM|#
Wherever you're from, I'm sure the Deep South outlibertarians it. I myself was raised in Cobb County, Georgia, where guns flow like wine.
|8.18.07 @ 6:27PM|#
Not sure I would class this as an utterly meaningless straw
poll. If you look at the CNN poll where they are touting Romney in
the lead in NH....its based on a poll of 303
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/states/new.hampshire.html
|8.18.07 @ 6:31PM|#
Normally I dislike the Deep South
As a Californian from the leftist coast, I've found Alabama and the
deep south to be full warm and friendly people, who almost
single-handedly keep the word "gracious" alive and well.
shithole resident|8.18.07 @ 6:38PM|#
I don't like the way they vote but I rarely meet a southerner I could dislike. Otherwise it's like any other area, gorgeous in places and crappy in others. Amazin', huh?
SIV|8.18.07 @ 6:41PM|#
I don't like the way they vote
Are there any States which vote for Libertarians in greater
proportion than Georgia?
|8.18.07 @ 6:44PM|#
This is good news, but the fact that Alan Keyes won it last time
around pretty much means it's meaningless?
Wherever you're from, I'm sure the Deep South outlibertarians
it. I myself was raised in Cobb County, Georgia, where guns flow
like wine.
Really? Isn't the Deep South where there are states where you can't
buy sex toys? Where anti-immigration sentiment is the strongest and
where invasion of civil liberties is most popular? Not to mention
the harshest penalties for consensual crimes. I doubt anywhere is
more libertarian than the west, sans the coast.
However, Southerners are wonderful, warm people.
shithole resident|8.18.07 @ 7:50PM|#
I agree with Mo. Unless you define libertarianism as revolving entirely around the gun issue, I don't see the south as any libertopia. But if it makes you feel better, I don't like the way my state votes either.
|8.18.07 @ 8:02PM|#
Actually the South is the most libertarian in distrust in,and hostility to the Federal government,excluding the military.
Well, we know where the that hostility to the federal government
comes from, and I hardly think that Wallace's stand in the
schoolhouse door is something "libertarian" to be proud of.
The south has never really been libertarian in the
leave-your-neighbor-alone sense. It has meddling booze, gambling
and sex laws and loves the drug war. Most of the current conflict
with the federal government is focused around federal judges
rebuffing attempts to codify fundamentalist christian morals as
law.
The west is more libertarian. Not only do they like guns here in
the rockies, but they don't seem to particularly care what you do
in private, either.
FYI, I was born in Alabama and lived there for more than two
decades with the accent to prove it. And I will say that Montgomery
is a shithole.
|8.18.07 @ 8:27PM|#
I grew up in a yankee shithole (NY- and yes, shithole is very appropriate) and now live in the South (NC). Based on my values I would have to say that it is a hell of a lot more libertarian here than there. But to have a pissing contest about this issue is a gross waste of time because everybody is going to have their set of issues that they consider more important.
Now ve may perhaps to begin?|8.18.07 @ 9:00PM|#
I grew up in a yankee shithole (NY- and yes, shithole is very appropriate) and now live in the South (NC). Based on my values I would have to say that it is a hell of a lot more libertarian here than there. But to have a pissing contest
All neurotics, and many others besides, take exception to the
fact that "inter urinas et faeces nascimur [we are born between
urine and faeces]."
|8.18.07 @ 9:14PM|#
Mo is, of course, dead on. Any poll that Alan Keyes won is not a representative sample in any way. Similarly, any poll that Ron Paul blows out is also not relevant in any way. And any person who does not zero in on these facts has forgotten that this magazine is called "Reason." Liking someone is different than suspending reality for him.
Jay D|8.18.07 @ 9:30PM|#
Part of the story I think is that there were fifty (50) non-Paul
Alabama strawpollers. Not a lot of Republican enthusiasm is being
displayed here.
Alan Keyes won with a plurality of 29% of 1,708 voters.
|8.18.07 @ 9:48PM|#
Whats so libertarian about the deep south SIV? Is it the history of slavery, segregation, or present-day homophobia and religious intolerance that makes places like Mississippi, South Carolina, and Alabama such friends of liberty?
|8.18.07 @ 9:59PM|#
The Deep South has for a long time been home to some of the
least libertarian strains of American politics out there,
everything but gun control.
Actually the South is the most libertarian in distrust in,and
hostility to the Federal government,excluding the
military.
The South is rife with contradictions, libertarianwise. For
example, people in the South tried to do one of the most
libertarian things imaginable (secede from the Union because they
felt the Union was infringing upon their sovereign rights as
states) for one of the most unlibertarian reasons imaginable
(trying to own other human beings). Economically, the South is one
of the most libertarian areas of the country, while socially is it
one of the least. Politically, the South switched from being a
bastion of a statist political party to being the stronghold of
what was a much less statist party, for the unlibertarian reason of
trying to continue to take away the rights of the descendents of
slaves, and then proceeded to turn the Republican Party into
something arguably as statist as the Democratic Party, albeit with
differing degrees of statism on various issues.
|8.18.07 @ 10:10PM|#
JH-
You have summed up the feelings about my native region perfectly.
Though I will say the upper south has a much smaller chip on its
shoulder than the deep south.
|8.18.07 @ 10:30PM|#
The deep south? Isn't that the place where the black guys are really lazy and all the white guys are just as lazy but they're mad at the black guys for being so lazy?
|8.18.07 @ 10:31PM|#
And Peter Griffin from Family Guy shows that New England has its fair share of dumbasses, too.
|8.18.07 @ 10:41PM|#
Recent polls indicate that Hillary will trounce any Repub. Most Americans want to give the State one more chance to give them health, prosperity, and security. Let 'em have Washington, and then six years from now, in 2012 things will be so bad, the Country will be ready for a true libertarian.
|8.18.07 @ 10:46PM|#
SIV said: "I would never issue a blanket condemnation of any
region."
In the same thread as he said "Yankee shithole."
Consistency, folks. It's not just for your favored issue.
|8.18.07 @ 11:04PM|#
Ron Paul supporters are super zealous for any type of poll. Seems like others are not. It doesn't seem to mean much beyond that.
Stephen Gordon|8.18.07 @ 11:25PM|#
Dave,
Thanks for the credit. I've posted my observations of the day's
proceedings
here.
Stephen Gordon|8.19.07 @ 12:15AM|#
With respect to the deep south and libertarianism...
My father is from Brooklyn and my mother is from rural north
Alabama.
I was born in Alabama, have lived in most sections of the country,
recently DC, and have moved back to Alabama.
I'd say it's a wash about whether the NE or the SE are more
libertarian.
They ban sex toys in Alabama (and quantities of over six of them in
Texas) but ban guns in NY and DC.
Alabama has a considerably lower tax base than the NE states.
Alabama has a lot more religious nutcases, too. They just tried to
ban drinking in the town 20 miles north of me -- but lost by a 2-1
margin.
On race it's a wash. Alabamians are more likely to be overtly
racist, but you know where you stand with these folks. I've seen
plenty of racism in Boston, but it's the whispered behind your back
sort, not admitted in public.
BTW, at the last Klan rally here, black people were cheering as
they burned a cross aimed at brown-skinned Spanish speaking
people.
The SE has less commies than the NE, but more fascists. However,
Giuliani comes from New York, and Hillary claims too. And our GOP
governor tried to implement the largest tax increase in state
history -- in the name of Jebus.
Despite the rhetoric, abortion isn't a key issue in the SE or NE.
Pregnant women who want abortions get them. They always did, but
now we all use instruments more sterile than coat hangers.
On foreign policy, right now, Alabama is a bit more
interventionist. However, this is changing, perhaps "blowback" from
the fact that we have a higher percentage of people from the south
volunteering to serve in the military. I'll state, as a veteran,
that wearing the uniform for a few years provides plenty of
compelling reasons to adopt a non-interventionist foreign
policy.
With respect to manners, I used to always think that southerners
were more friendly. My last few trips to NYC, as well as recent DC
experience, indicate that urban NE areas are becoming more polite.
The rudest people I've encountered lately were in Atlanta --
especially drivers at rush hour.
With respect to women, the sexiest ones hail from north Alabama
(but I had to say that, as my wife might read this comment).
|8.19.07 @ 12:21AM|#
"Let 'em have Washington, and then six years from now, in
2012 things will be so bad, the Country will be ready for a true
libertarian."
Or it will turn out the Olmecs/Mayans were right and things will be
so shitty by 2012 that the world ends.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.19.07 @ 12:48AM|#
As a Californian from the leftist coast, I've found Alabama and the deep south to be full warm and friendly people, who almost single-handedly keep the word "gracious" alive and well.
Yes. Gracious.
There was a time when Californians were known to be a friendly lot.
But that's gone.
dhex|8.19.07 @ 12:58AM|#
Anti-Southern bigotry is one of the few forms considered
"socially acceptable" yet we don't whine about it nearly as much(if
at all) as other "groups".>
there are so many forms of group bigotry that are socially
acceptable it's pretty redonkulated to jump up on the jesus holder
just yet.
i mean feel free to guys but to each their own; as they say in the
Philippines around easter, hang in there.
iih|8.19.07 @ 1:06AM|#
Living in New England, it is true a lot of the racism happens
kind of silently. But it is there.
My most favorite southerner is Larry the Cable Guy. He's
hilarious.
|8.19.07 @ 1:14AM|#
There was a time when Californians were known to be a
friendly lot. But that's gone.
Don't give up. As long as you're there, TWC, the claim to gracious
affability will always have some merit.
the innominate one|8.19.07 @ 1:24AM|#
Larry the Cable Guy isn't from the south, he's a P.O.S. caricature of the worst of southern populist demagoguery
GILMORE|8.19.07 @ 1:25AM|#
Wow! 266 WHOLE votes?!
Thats almost like, a rocking keg party. is that shit like, cross
tabbed and stuff? Were all 266 living in the same weird libertarian
trailer park, and they're all vaguely related?
Jesus fucking shit on a stick, this ron paul fanfixation is getting
stupid. Ron Paul wins Left Handed Lebanese Dentists Association
endorsement! Ron Paul didnt Deny Moon Landing this week! Keep
fighting the good fight!
|8.19.07 @ 1:34AM|#
Stephen Macklin nailed it perfectly with his comment.
Rep. Paul will get the same 216 votes come primary time - that is,
if he's still in the race.
iih|8.19.07 @ 1:37AM|#
the innominate one:
Larry the Cable Guy isn't from the south, he's a P.O.S.
caricature of the worst of southern populist demagoguery
Oh I was fooled then. What is P.O.S?
the innominate one|8.19.07 @ 1:48AM|#
piece of fecal matter
according to his wikipedia profile, he's from Nebraska and lived
there until he was 16.
I found him amusing when he first started doing bits on a local
radio morning show 14 years ago, but his current act is just
pathetic, IMO.
Look for David Cross's open letter to Larry on his website. I think
it's bobanddavid.com, or there is a link from Cross's wikipedia
page. David Cross actually is from the south (Georgia), but doesn't
trade exclusively on southern stereotypes and prejudices to make
his living.
GILMORE|8.19.07 @ 1:50AM|#
re: the north/south debate
I believe North and South must set aside their differences and
unite in mutual contempt of Guidos and those dumb rednecks who keep
getting arrested on COPS.
Once we have eradicated this shared menace we will have far less
reason to mock each other for shame of ourselves.
People For A Shithead Free America ask for your support!
|8.19.07 @ 1:51AM|#
For example, people in the South tried to do one of the most
libertarian things imaginable (secede from the Union because they
felt the Union was infringing upon their sovereign rights as
states) for one of the most unlibertarian reasons imaginable
(trying to own other human beings).
jh, You've bought the big lie. Abraham Lincoln did not free the
slaves until the war was nearly over in 1863.
The winners get to write the history books and the North did a good
job in reframing the war to be solely about slavery.
iih|8.19.07 @ 1:57AM|#
piece of fecal matter
Oh I see -- I am not big on acronyms.
I guess I do not have a favorite Southerner then. Just kidding!
GILMORE|8.19.07 @ 2:36AM|#
The winners get to write the history books and the North did
a good job in reframing the war
Right. From what, 90% about slavery, to 100% about slavery?
you see, i have shelby foote right here next to me...
(Gilmore pulls bearded southern war historian from sideview who
then tells other guy "you understand nothing of my work!")
|8.19.07 @ 2:49AM|#
As a conservative Republican I find Ron Paul to be an embarrassment. He's a John Birch Society style isolationist crank. His pro-Saddam statements in regard to Iraq and his Israel baiting are proof of my long held belief that the far right is just as anti-American and anti-Semitic as the far left.
|8.19.07 @ 2:50AM|#
Let 'em have Washington, and then six years from now, in
2012 things will be so bad, the Country will say that by
2016 it will probably be ready for a true
libertarian.
Fixed.
Stephen Gordon|8.19.07 @ 2:57AM|#
Back to the north/south "thang" again, I see. To be clear, I had
ancestuhs split over the issue. My maternal-great (to some
exponential degree)-grandpappy (from No'th Alabam) lived in a
county which seceded from Alabama to fight for the North over the
slavery issue.
Another person in the revered history column in the old family
Bible was a POW in a northern POW camp. He fought for Calhounian
States' Rights. Some great stories there. Not as good as the
slave/master child family story, though.
Additionally, lots of family members are UDC/DAR pedigreed.
WTF? That war has been over for at least 30 years. That's over a
generation, if you can't do the math. I've even heard rumors that
this particular war ended even 100 years prior to our generation
(with a Who riff).
Right now, people are dying in Iraq. I have family members there.
Call me weird, but I prefer concentrating on the here and now to
the libertarian hypothetical.
loupeznik|8.19.07 @ 7:19AM|#
Does anyone have a local news link about the NH poll he won? I'm looking for something a little less biased than a blog.
Fluffy|8.19.07 @ 8:17AM|#
Hey Gilmore, 266 votes isn't a lot, but when the local
Republican party promotes a fundraiser and straw poll, you'd expect
that, you know, Republicans would attend and vote.
Where were the Thompson supporters? The Giuliani supporters? 266 is
a tiny number, why couldn't they produce a similar number?
I don't doubt that if you cornered them on the street, there are
large numbers of Alabamans who would say they were supporting
Thompson. Why didn't any of those people come to this PARTY-HELD
event?
Fluffy|8.19.07 @ 8:23AM|#
Hey bulbman -
By "pro-Saddam comments" do you mean comments like the ones he made
in 2002, when he said that Saddam probably had no functioning WMD
left, probably hadn't been able to do much in the way of restarting
his WMD programs while under the sanctions, and constituted no
threat to the United States? I had no idea that being absolutely,
positively, 100% RIGHT meant that you were "pro-Saddam".
And as far as the Israel baiting thing goes, if our alliance with
Israel is a net benefit to the US we should maintain it, and if
it's a net loss to the US we should junk it. The ethnic makeup of
that state or the history of misfortunes of people of that
ethnicity should have absolutely no bearing on the matter one way
or the other. If demanding that our foreign policy actually serve
the interest of the US, instead of being some sort of performance
art extension of the Holocaust Museum, is wrong, then let me be
guilty.
|8.19.07 @ 9:48AM|#
Fluffy, you're right in the abstract when you say that The
ethnic makeup of that state or the history of misfortunes of people
of that ethnicity should have absolutely no bearing on the matter
one way or the other.
Hey., I agree with you. Someone just needs to drill it through the
thick skulls of the Jew-hating Palestinians and their Arab Allies,
and we'll be all set.
Fluffy|8.19.07 @ 9:53AM|#
Hey Ayn -
Well, if you can just get the state of Israel to agree with you,
we'll be all set.
After all, the reason the occupied territories are occupied and not
absorbed is because absorption would disrupt the ethnic makeup of
the Israeli state, which the Israelis wish to maintain at all
costs.
I'm sure the Palestinians would be happy to accept occupation if
all of them were declared Israeli citizens [which would be the
truly "ethically neutral" way to resolve the dispute].
SIV|8.19.07 @ 10:44AM|#
Cesar,
...the history of slavery, segregation, or present-day
homophobia and religious intolerance ....
They had or have all that outside the South.
Indiana and Pennsylvania were the biggest KKK States.I could go on
but as JLM said:
But to have a pissing contest about this issue is a gross waste
of time because everybody is going to have their set of issues that
they consider more important.
In regard to the sex toy thing in Texas and Alabama: Last time I
checked it was someone in AL selling the Japan market licensed
Disney vibrators on the 'net(Hello Kitty too).
|8.19.07 @ 11:06AM|#
For example, people in the South tried to do one of the most
libertarian things imaginable (secede from the Union because they
felt the Union was infringing upon their sovereign rights as
states) for one of the most unlibertarian reasons imaginable
(trying to own other human beings).
jh, You've bought the big lie. Abraham Lincoln did not free the
slaves until the war was nearly over in 1863.
The winners get to write the history books and the North did a good
job in reframing the war to be solely about slavery.
OK, Nostar, please explain what should go in the history books
about the War Between the States, besides the obvious notion that
Lincoln was one of the worst presidents ever, second only to FDR,
because he used military power to change "these united states" into
"The United States"? What significant issues drove the secession
besides the quarrel over slavery?
Not being snarky -- if you believe I've bought the big lie, then
I'd like to hear what you consider the big truth so I can consider
your POV and see if I need to reevaluate the indoctrination I
suffered in government schools.
|8.19.07 @ 11:25AM|#
Just a note that Ron Paul is a Constitutionalist, rather than a
Libertarian. I think people get confused because so few have any
real interest in the Constitution unless they own a gun. If even
one percent of the population was fed up with how our
Constitutional rights have been stripped away the last ten years,
we'd have millions of people marching on Washington and on their
local representative's offices.
It's also worth getting a better understanding of how Congress has
wedged all kinds of things into an oft misinterpreted section of
the 10th amendment (abetted by Federal Judges from time to time).
Ron Paul is right to push a number of things that Congress has
worked up to the federal level back to the States. The Feds really
have a very limited role under the Constitution, and a lot of the
problems we face inside the US stem from excessive federal activity
and spending.
|8.19.07 @ 11:37AM|#
robay -- So, policywise, how does a constitutionalist differ from a libertarian? What things would a con do that a lib wouldn't? I was at a Ron Paul Meetup and someone got politely agitated when I called Ron Paul a libertarian.
VM|8.19.07 @ 11:56AM|#
because so few have any real interest in the
Constitution 2nd Amendment unless
they own a gun
there ya go.
|8.19.07 @ 12:39PM|#
jh,
Policy-wise, a libertarian would be against government run
schooling, period. A Constitutionalist would say that the Federal
Government has no role, and whether schools are private or
government run is up to the states. A Constitutionalist Governor
could support public schooling, since nothing in the Constitution
prevents it, while a Libertarian could not. Though this is more of
a touchy subject with libertarians that causes some divisions, in
the general sense abortion falls in the same category. Paul's
statments on abortion indicate he would vote to prohibit the
practice at the state level if he were in state government. Most
libertarians hold a different view. So Paul's "libertarian"
position on abortion is soley a function of him being a
Constitutionalist and happening to be a Federal, rather than State,
represenative.
|8.19.07 @ 12:44PM|#
SIV-
Its true what you said about Indiana and Illinois, however most
people there have ancestors mostly from Kentucky and Virginia.
Abraham Lincoln's family was typical--born in Kentucky, then move
to Indiana and Illinois.
The South also seceded not because the federal government had
actually violated their rights. They seceded pretty much because
they lost a presidential election. Dumbest reason I can think of to
secede.
The South is better on some things, and I'd certainly would rather
live here than in the northeast. The economy kicks ass compared to
the rustbelt, for one.
However, in my experience far and away the most libertarian area of
the country is the rocky mountain west and southwest (sans
Utah).
Ronpauler|8.19.07 @ 4:58PM|#
Ron Paul will restore Christian respect for life, the Constitution, and the gold standard. Maybe he can stop the latinization/secularization of our culture, end Israel's occupation of our government and taxes for Israel's wars.
|8.19.07 @ 6:01PM|#
Wherever you're from, I'm sure the Deep South
outlibertarians it. I myself was raised in Cobb County, Georgia,
where guns flow like wine.
But guns flow like wine on the coasts, too. Because after they
confiscate the guns, they melt them down. Then pour them into molds
to make battering rams for SWAT teams.
VM|8.19.07 @ 6:56PM|#
What Stevo said :)
Anti-Southern bigotry is one of the few forms considered "socially acceptable" yet we don't whine about it nearly as much(if at all) as other "groups".
*passes the chaeze for the whine (cuz you whine about it about as
much as a socially-dominant group can).
**or, as "Mark" (below) notes, why notice it?
*** you still lost. tee hee hee.
SIV|8.19.07 @ 7:35PM|#
VM,
Southerners are a "socially dominant group"?
I'll go along with culturally dominant.
bk|8.19.07 @ 8:43PM|#
"In regard to the sex toy thing in Texas and Alabama: Last time
I checked it was someone in AL selling the Japan market licensed
Disney vibrators on the 'net(Hello Kitty too)."
Uhh, you check on this sort of thing?
SIV|8.19.07 @ 9:44PM|#
Uhh, you check on this sort of thing?
Why yes. As many liberaltarian commenters here remind us the
illegality of some sex toy sales in TX and AL is the most important
libertarian issue out there.If Ron Paul came out in favor of a
Constitutional Amendment to mandate universally legal sex toy
stores we would BE in Libertopia!
spacemonkey|8.20.07 @ 12:25AM|#
I live in Alabama. I have to say every Ron Paul supporter in Alabama was probably present at the straw Poll.
|8.20.07 @ 1:58AM|#
Castro and Kim Jung Il gets 99%.
Yeah, and the other 1% probably never votes again.
duckman1957|8.20.07 @ 9:43AM|#
doesn't think separation of church and state is a valid
concept
dbh
Hey, dbh, separation of church and state is not found in the
Constitution for anything other than acts of Congress. The First
Amendment states, "Congress shall make no law..." The 14th
Amendment, who so many point to as extending the Bill of Rights to
the states (it does no such thing - its purpose was to protect the
rights of the newly freed slaves), only speaks of states not
abridging the "immunities" and "privileges" of citizens. It says
nothing even suggesting that a state cannot have whatever religious
establishment a majority of its citizens desire. So, yeah, Dr. Paul
is right to come down on the "validity" of church/state
separation.
|8.20.07 @ 12:15PM|#
duckman--
But almost all state constitutions have an even stronger anti-state
religion clause than the federal constitution.
David T. Beito|8.20.07 @ 12:19PM|#
While no candidate came to speak, Duncan Hunter called in to make an appeal.....with little result.
Stormy Dragon|8.20.07 @ 1:44PM|#
Larry the Cable guy is from New York (by way of a private New
England liberal arts college) and is about as un-south as you can
get. I've seen video of his act when he first started, and believe
it or not, he was originally a Jerry Seinfeld knock off.
Of course, the best part of his new persona is how many of his fans
don't get that he's not one of them, he's a yankee making fun of
them.
|8.20.07 @ 2:10PM|#
Texas may not have realistically molded sex toys, but their hundred foot high neon "Adult World! Next Exit!" billboards towering over the local kindergarten more than make up for it. :-)
|8.20.07 @ 3:02PM|#
Ron Paul will restore Christian respect for life, the
Constitution, and the gold standard. Maybe he can stop the
latinization/secularization of our culture, end Israel's occupation
of our government and taxes for Israel's wars.
That sounds like Pat Buchanan's platform.
|8.20.07 @ 3:35PM|#
"The 14th Amendment, who so many point to as extending the Bill
of Rights to the states (it does no such thing - its purpose was to
protect the rights of the newly freed slaves)"
Senator Bingham, the author of the amendment said it was his
intention to apply the Bill of Rights to the states by the 14th
Amendment. That's what he meant by the citizens of each state being
entitled to the "immunities and privileges of the citizens of the
several states". When a state establishes one church or religion
over all the others, it infringes on the rights of the people who
don't share the beliefs of the majority. If you read the Federalist
Papers, you will see that the authors were very opposed to
majoritarian tyranny. They strongly believed in individual
rights.
|8.20.07 @ 5:15PM|#
The largest problem with most policies domestic and foreign here
is that they have been preframed and predetermined by special
interest groups (complexes military-industrial, prison-industrial,
pharmaceutical-industrial, etc.) These special interest machines
run and feed themselves so it really doesn't matter who is
supposedly at the "wheel": special interests drive policy makers,
not the other way around unfortunately. The only solution I can
think of is to bleed them dry (defund), which only a Ron Paul
presidency would begin to do.
Look, this country is much too large to be governed by a
centralized federal plutocracy driven to appease its special
interest overlords. Why should we be beholden to a minority group
of priveledged power brokers who can't even begin to represent the
diversity that exists here?
The solution is to decentralize through DEVOLUTION (via the UK
model: see Scotland '97 for example).
So let's change the slogan: instead of the Ron Paul Revolution
let's have the RON PAUL DEVOLUTION!!!!
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