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Puzzle for the Governor: Is Life in Prison Excessive for Smoking Pot?
The Drug
War Chronicle reports
that pressure is building for Texas Gov. Rick Perry to commute
the sentence of Tyrone Brown, who was sentenced to life in prison
for smoking pot. In 1990, when he was 17, Brown took part in
a $2 robbery in which the victim was not physically injured, a
crime for which he received 10 years of probation. A few weeks
later, he tested positive for marijuana, and the judge not only
revoked his probation but inexplicably resentenced him to a life
term. Now, after local and national media attention triggered by
the November
Coalition, Perry has been urged to commute Brown's sentence not
only by outraged citizens but by Dallas District Attorney Bill
Hill, Sheriff Lupe Valdez, and even the sentencing judge, Keith
Dean, who is no longer in office. In addition to the sheer insanity
of the sentence, there's a racial angle (which proved important in
Perry's decision to release the Tulia residents nabbed for allegedly selling cocaine to
discredited undercover cop Tom Coleman): The Dallas Morning
News
contrasted Dean's ridiculously harsh treatment of Brown, a poor
black teenager, with the lenience he showed a wealthy white guy,
John Alexander Wood, who received a 10-year suspended sentence
for killing a prostitute. When Wood repeatedly tested positive for
cocaine, Dean did not send him to jail, let alone give him a life
sentence. Instead he arranged things so Wood didn't have to take
drug tests anymore.
Jonathan C. Hohensee|12.15.06 @ 1:12PM|#
Don't blame me, I voted for Kinky bumper stickers must be selling like hot cakes.
|12.15.06 @ 1:19PM|#
Ah, Inspector Javert is alive and well. Six months for the dead
prostitute!
The more he examined the deed of this woman, the more shocked he felt. It was evident that he had just witnessed the commission of a crime. He had just beheld, yonder, in the street, society, in the person of a freeholder and an elector, insulted and attacked by a creature who was outside all pales.
|12.15.06 @ 1:24PM|#
Not by way of excuse, but by way of example, this sort of crap should make people consider their level of incredulity when things like the LA riots occur.
|12.15.06 @ 1:37PM|#
Okay, first off, while I disagree with the war on drugs, the guy
DID break his probation, so maybe a little jail was appropriate
(legally anyway), but life? The hell??
And as to that disparity: WHAT THE FUCK?????!!!!!
And Jane, fuck you you fucking bitch.
|12.15.06 @ 1:38PM|#
Ahh, my home state. And people wonder why I refused a chance to
being a criminal prosecutor.
In all seriousness, I don't know how the judge managed to redo the
sentence after the original deferred adjudication. There's just not
a mechanism for that kind of thing. What should have happened is
that the kid has a dirty drug test, the prosecution files a motion
to revoke community supervision based on the original plea and THAT
sentence becomes final and effective. There's no place for a new
sentence.
That said, good luck getting Governor Breck Boy to let an
EVVVIIIIILLLLLL drug offender go.
Bill F.|12.15.06 @ 1:48PM|#
"You breaks the law you does the time, period, end of
discussion."
Why don't we just up the sentence to death for any crime
whatsoever, then? Seems like we're being a little lenient, letting
all those thieves and pot-smokers live after their transgressions
against society. Of course, such a law would create perverse
economic incentives that encourage petty criminals to murder
innocents, but I guess that's just the price you pay for
justice.
While we're at it, we can repeal the fourth, fifth, and sixth
amendments, and bring back the guillotine.
|12.15.06 @ 1:51PM|#
Entertaining watching a troll throw some chum in the water and always some gullible commenter is off to the races before it dawns on them they are be toyed with by a troll bot
|12.15.06 @ 1:52PM|#
Would you call Jane/Juanita a straw-troll? in that she's putting evil shit on our blog that anti-libertarians can quote as evidence of libertarian evil, with an added bonus that she'll provoke anti-troll ire?
|12.15.06 @ 1:54PM|#
Karen,
Rick Perry, great hair, bad republican, poor excuse for a
conservative. His tax and economic policy is another real
fiasco.
|12.15.06 @ 1:55PM|#
How does Texas's execution rate compare with the rest of the world? My guess is that this one State executes more people than China and Russia combined.
Miggs|12.15.06 @ 1:58PM|#
"Jane" is probably over on DailyKos right now pointing out the evil libertarian comments over here. Good times.
Eagle|12.15.06 @ 2:04PM|#
"How does Texas's execution rate compare with the rest of the
world? My guess is that this one State executes more people than
China and Russia combined."
Your guess is so far off it boggles the mind:
"According to Amnesty International, at least 3,400 people were
executed in 2004. This is 90% of the reported world total. A senior
Chinese legislator suggested in March 2004 that China executes
"nearly 10,000" people each year " -Wikipedia
Rhywun|12.15.06 @ 2:12PM|#
Here we go again. Guys, Jane/Juanita/(Dan?) is not a troll. S/he is merely gracing us with some light Friday humor.
The Wine Commonsewer|12.15.06 @ 2:14PM|#
Texas is really no different than anywhere else. Texas paroled a
guy who murdered his own kid in the most reprehensible way you can
imagine (good behavior, model prisoner). He came to my home town
and murdered about 50 of those prostitutes that Jane thinks we're
better off without.
The real problem is the justice system itself. There is no
consistent rational justice, civil or criminal. There is no desire
to get at the truth, only gamesmanship designed to see who can find
the most obscure technicality and make it stick.
Rhywun|12.15.06 @ 2:17PM|#
China executes "nearly 10,000" people each year
And gets just about ZERO condemnation for it, at least from elected
figures. You just know that number includes about 9,999
political prisoners.
M|12.15.06 @ 2:21PM|#
Why don't we just up the sentence to death for any crime
whatsoever, then?
Been there, done that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draco_%28lawgiver%29
Rhywun|12.15.06 @ 2:22PM|#
Heh, oops. A hazard of tabbed browsing is I don't know which thread I'm posting at half the time.
|12.15.06 @ 2:44PM|#
Now wait a minute...just the other day there were commenters all
over reason explaining how affirmative action is not needed because
in these modern times, racism and disparate treatment based on skin
color is no longer a problem in our society?
Something doesn't compute. Why would race be playing a part in his
stricter sentencing when I've been assured, repeatedly, by many
knowledgeable reason commenters that we don't have race problems in
the US anymore other than a few aberrations here and there.
Or is it only the law enforcement/criminal justice system has a
race problem but no one else?
|12.15.06 @ 2:44PM|#
Huh, so Juanita finally forded the river, hopped the fence and changed her name to avoid detection. Lonewacko would be proud.
|12.15.06 @ 2:46PM|#
BRECK-boy, Karen? LOL. I called Sphinctorum helmet-head, but
hopefully I won't be seeing any more of him. Maybe Perry can be my
new source of hair amusement.
John Roberts has suspiciously stiff hair as well.
|12.15.06 @ 2:48PM|#
How's this; set Tyrone Brown free, and let Judge Dean serve out the remainder of the sentence.
|12.15.06 @ 2:53PM|#
P Brooks, I wouldn't frown on giving some jail time to the fucker. If his behavior isn't criminal, it oughta be.
|12.15.06 @ 2:58PM|#
I'm a troll AND a dumb ass. lol
Yeah because pointing out the absurdity of the beliefs of many
commenters that racism is not much of a problem these days is
trolling.
You were half right...you are a dumb ass.
|12.15.06 @ 3:04PM|#
Karen, you turned down a prosecutor job?
I am wondering if you couldn't have done many good deeds as a
libertarian prosecutor. By refusing to try cases that like drug
cases.
I mean it is your life and you have no obligation to do anything.
But I am thinking that by refusing to be a prosecutor as a kind of
concientous objector, you are leaving an opening for some naziesque
prosecutor to take your place and carry on with the prosecution of
people who are not criminals.
Although maybe as a prosecutor you don't have a choice to not
prosecute. I don't really know the law, I am just
speculating.
If I was offered the job as drug czar, I would take it.
If I was offered the job as head of the IRS I would take it.
If I was offered the job as federal prosecutor I would take
it.
Only to do my best to torpedo all the un libertarian stuff they
do.
|12.15.06 @ 3:05PM|#
The headline is misleading, he was not sentenced to life for smoking pot, he was sentenced to life for robbing someone. As insane as the drug war is, I have no sympathy for a scumbag thief. Also, what difference does it make that it was only $2 and nobody was hurt, he used force to take property from someone, it is not like he politely asked for the money. I say let him rot.
grylliade|12.15.06 @ 3:08PM|#
Now wait a minute...just the other day there were commenters
all over reason explaining how affirmative action is not needed
because in these modern times, racism and disparate treatment based
on skin color is no longer a problem in our society?
Maybe the problem of racism is not going to be solved by
affirmative action? Maybe affirmative action has done what it
could, and another solution needs to be applied now? I can tell you
that most of the racists I've met aren't going to be swayed by
affirmative action; at this point, the problem isn't one of
institutional racism, which affirmative action can solve, but of
individual racism (in this case that of one judge), which
affirmative action cannot solve, and indeed in many cases
exacerbates. Seriously, racists I've met cite affirmative action as
an example of how the "inferior races" are taking jobs away from
deserving whites, and are evidence of a conspiracy in their favor.
At this point, affirmative action is doing more harm than good, and
needs to be abolished.
|12.15.06 @ 3:08PM|#
"The world is better off with one less prostitute."
How sad to learn your mother was killed.
|12.15.06 @ 3:12PM|#
Also, what difference does it make that it was only $2 and
nobody was hurt, he used force to take property from someone, it is
not like he politely asked for the money. I say let him
rot.
The law is about more than just dispensing the punishment that
somebody deserves. The law is also about incentives. If every thief
is at risk of a life sentence then where's the disincentive to
escalate the activity? If the armed robber and the unarmed robber
face the same risks, then where is the disincentive to use violence
and get rid of witnesses? Where is the disincentive against using
violence to evade capture? Where is the incentive to limit the
scope of the activity?
|12.15.06 @ 3:22PM|#
One thing that I know for sure, if every thief received a life
sentence, there would be no repeat offenders.
Fuck this guy, life in prison is the right kind of justice,
IMO.
|12.15.06 @ 3:42PM|#
One thing that I know for sure, if every thief received a
life sentence, there would be no repeat offenders.
Umm, if every thief recieved the same sentence as a murderer (life)
then why would a thief not murder his target? Leave no witness if
the punishment is the same.
|12.15.06 @ 3:44PM|#
In that same vein, are you advocating that the taxpayers spend 1.5 million dollars (30k a year for say 50yrs) to lock up a guy who stole $2? Good cost benefit ratio that one is.
|12.15.06 @ 3:54PM|#
release him now Governor. End the Drug War and ramp up the War on Islamism. The real threat to Western Civilization.
|12.15.06 @ 4:02PM|#
Some of the people commenting on this thread make Jane/Juanita seem downright pleasant.
The Wine Commonsewer|12.15.06 @ 4:20PM|#
Chi-Tom, are you proposing affirmative action in sentencing? Or are you suggesting that letting making 13% of Berkley students black will resolve sentencing difficulties in Texas.
The Wine Commonsewer|12.15.06 @ 4:31PM|#
Thowrow, agreed with your point except that all the death
penalty opponents always claim that it isn't a deterrent. If the
death penalty isn't a deterrent than why would any other degree of
punishment be a deterrent or an incentive? What say you?
I'm a law and order kind of guy and I detest the parole system. It
should be abolished. Forget about time off for good behavior as
well. We need reasonable sentencing that is proportional to the
circumstances of the crime.
Looking to the old west, justice was quick and certain. Yet, if you
look at the sentencing records of the notorious Yuma Territorial
Prison, the sentences were short by today's standards. And when you
served your time you were done.
The Wine Commonsewer|12.15.06 @ 4:34PM|#
One thing that I know for sure, if every thief received a
life sentence, there would be no repeat offenders.
Or we could just cut off the thief's hand so he is forced to eat
with his butt wiping hand.
I'm crackin' wise here..........
GILMORE|12.15.06 @ 4:34PM|#
One thing that I know for sure, if every thief received a
life sentence, there would be no repeat offenders. Fuck this guy,
life in prison is the right kind of justice, IMO.
Jesus Christ almighty in a goddamn peanut butter sandwich, you need
to lighten the fuck up homie. Or at least read a little of
Foucault's "Discipline and Punish". Or both. If you "scratch a
Green and find a Fascist", what does that make you? Scratch a
Libertoid, find a screaming lunatic?
|12.15.06 @ 4:41PM|#
except that all the death penalty opponents always claim
that it isn't a deterrent. If the death penalty isn't a deterrent
than why would any other degree of punishment be a deterrent or an
incentive? What say you?
Well, I would say that the relevant question to ask is whether the
death penalty is an effective deterrent when compared with a life
sentence. I don't know the answer there. But even if there is
little difference in deterrent effect between the death penalty and
a life sentence (that's a question which will require more data
than any of us have) that doesn't necessary mean that a longer
sentence isn't a deterrent relative to a shorter sentence.
Of course, not every criminal responds to incentives (if they did
there'd be far less crime) but the fact remains that you set up an
incentive structure to have an effect on the margins. If the
starting sentence is life, the only other sentence is death, and
that doesn't leave a lot of room for detail when setting up your
incentive structure.
|12.15.06 @ 4:41PM|#
Gawd damn! How times have a changed.
I remember back when Tulia and the free lance lawman were an issue
(and the only real info you could get was in non-american papers),
I was called a "progressive" more than once by (L)libertarians for
believing that the race of the victims (the black residents of
Tulia) actually played a part.
My goodness, have (L)libertarians discovered that citizens some
citizens who's ancestry does not include a great deal of caucasiod
blood might be treated different?
Naw can't be, I specifically remember CATO repeatedly saying such
things as liberty for all across racial lines was not a libertarian
concern.
But now that the greatest Libertarians President's drug war
(Reagan) is turning against us all, suddenly everyone notices them
again? How terribly interesting.
Who knows, (L)libertarians may actually be discovering
liberty.
Naw...that would be ridicolous.
|12.15.06 @ 4:41PM|#
Wasn't this in 60 Minutes or something? I know I saw this story on TV awhile back.
|12.15.06 @ 4:43PM|#
GILMORE,
I was just going to tell him to go smoke a bowl, but your comment
will work too.
|12.15.06 @ 4:49PM|#
Also on the show they interviewed the victim of the robbery and he certainly didn't think the guy should be in jail. That's good enough for me.
Sara|12.15.06 @ 4:58PM|#
The most important issue here is - how did the actor who protrayed black Zoolander manage to film while in prison?
|12.15.06 @ 5:25PM|#
A 20-year-old member of my white family, almost certainly stoned (he always is), crashed his car, reaking of pot, into a family of illegal Mexican immigrants -- the Mexicans got the blame for the accident and were deported.
lunchstealer|12.15.06 @ 6:01PM|#
Don't blame me. I did, in fact, vote for Kinky.
Troy, don't feel bad, a large portion of Texans would make the same
claim, and be bragging about it.
The Wine Commonsewer|12.15.06 @ 6:15PM|#
Thow-row, thanks. Just for the record: I wasn't siding with life
in prison as the only alternative to death. Just mentioning the
rest.
Essentially, you agree that some criminals respond to some
incentives/discentives. I think there is some truth to that. I also
think the death penalty is a deterrent for some people. I know a
guy who lives today because while my buddy Wayne was chasing him
down an alley cranking off 30/30 shots at him, Wayne suddenly had a
vision of the old gas chamber at San Quentin. So there is at least
one murder that wasn't committed. Course I would have called it a
crime of passion rather than an outright murder since Wayne woke up
and found his wife naked on the couch with this guy.
|12.15.06 @ 6:33PM|#
Don't blame me, I voted for Kinky bumper stickers must be
selling like hot cakes.
That strikes me as a bad excuse - if
Kinky voters had voted for Perry's biggest competitor, Perry
wouldn't be in office right now.
biologist|12.15.06 @ 6:59PM|#
oh, come on, Eric, by that logic, if I had voted for Gore
instead of the Libertarian Party candidate for president in 2000,
we, uh...
never mind.
seriously, though, I wish the voting public at large would vote for
whomever they think is best, not the lesser of the two evils who
are most likely to win.
|12.15.06 @ 7:11PM|#
biologist,
I'd be happy if just libertarians voted the way you suggest. For
some reason, it seems that nuts like Perot and Nader can get votes
from their loony base, but loonies like us can't band together to
support our nut candidates.
Ray G|12.15.06 @ 8:13PM|#
If Pinochet were governor, he would sentence Dean to a life
sentence, which would give NRO a good reason to write a glowing
review of. . . wait,. . . what thread am I on now?
Hold on. . .
|12.15.06 @ 8:50PM|#
Don't forget the prosecutor's creed:
Hey, just because they're fish, and just because they're in a
barrel, doesn't mean you shouldn't shoot 'em.
|12.15.06 @ 11:39PM|#
http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2006/12/13/480679-miami-chiefs-son-sentenced-in-drug-case
This is a fucking outrage.
|12.15.06 @ 11:46PM|#
Fuck USA, luckily I live in Europe which in most part is not a barbaric police state.
|12.16.06 @ 6:45AM|#
"Also on the show they interviewed the victim of the robbery and
he certainly didn't think the guy should be in jail. That's good
enough for me."
That's one of the important considerations to me -- with many of
these celebrity prisoners, there's an attitude of brushing off the
victim.
"Fuck USA, luckily I live in Europe which in most part is not a
barbaric police state."
Yes, and the Europeans aren't as hung up on free speech and the
right to bear arms as us cowboy-hat-wearing, large-penis-having,
Europe's-chestnuts-out-of-the-fire-pulling Yankees.
|12.16.06 @ 7:43AM|#
"Fuck USA, luckily I live in Europe which in most part is not a
barbaric police state."
"Yes, and the Europeans aren't as hung up on free speech and the
right to bear arms as us cowboy-hat-wearing, large-penis-having,
Europe's-chestnuts-out-of-the-fire-pulling Yankees."
It recently occured to me that the USA may be the most libertarian
nation on the planet. You know how every election for the last few
years (except '06) Democrats have mumbled about moving to Canada,
or western Europe, or some other perceived progressive utopia?
Libertarians got nowhere to run.
sundayreader.com|12.16.06 @ 10:13AM|#
This reminds me of that commercial where the guys are sitting around a table while one of them is choking and merely intellectualizing about what to do when someone is choking, while someone from another table gets up and comes over to the guy choking at their table and performs the heimlich manuever on him.
Dave|12.16.06 @ 10:39AM|#
let 'em hang. pot smokers kill more people than any other type
of criminal cause they are all violent and such...
drinking and driving should be legal though, as long as you aren't
"above the limit"
|12.16.06 @ 1:33PM|#
It recently occured to me that the USA may be the most
libertarian nation on the planet. You know how every election for
the last few years (except '06) Democrats have mumbled about moving
to Canada, or western Europe, or some other perceived progressive
utopia?
Have you also noticed that none of them actually ever leave,
though?
|12.16.06 @ 3:41PM|#
"While we're at it, we can repeal the fourth, fifth, and sixth
amendments, and bring back the guillotine."
There are plenty of potheads trying to fuck over the Second
Amendment as it is. As long as they're getting their precious weed,
the Constitution doesn't seem to matter.
|12.16.06 @ 10:35PM|#
citizengnat-too bad there's not a country that combines Hong Kong's free-marketism with the (relative) social liberalism of the Netherlands (along w/ Switzerland's gun policy?).
|12.17.06 @ 11:33AM|#
New Zealand was looking pretty good for a while.
It has an excellent rating on economic freedom. It is also a highly
tolerant society with a very high level of individual
liberty.
Those and the fact that you don't have to learn a new language
(outside of a few different spelling rules and some unfamiliar
slang) are the upsides. There are unfortunately some
downsides.
While their gun laws do seem to be the most permissive in the
British Commonwealth they are more restrictive than libertarians
find acceptable.
The current government also seems to have many of the same
nannystate ideas that are popular elsewhere.
admin|12.18.06 @ 8:46AM|#
"You breaks the law you does the time, period, end of
discussion."
Jane: Your just a bitch that obviously isnt getting good sex.....or
have ever smoked a joint!
http://www.pixelfactor.org
|12.18.06 @ 11:23AM|#
seriously, though, I wish the voting public at large would
vote for whomever they think is best, not the lesser of the two
evils who are most likely to win.
So Kinky-voters doubly deserve a whap on the back of the
head...
|12.18.06 @ 1:36PM|#
Mr. Wine: My father, who was a prosecutor for 18 years, believes that the certainty of apprehension and punishment is a greater deterrent than the severity of the punishment itself. Your friend would probably have decided that the prospect of 10 years in prison for killing his wife's visitor would be enough of a downside to deter him, if he felt he was certain to be caught. All this is a generalization, of course.
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