Obamacare Leaves Doctors On the Hook for Deadbeats

The Affordable Care Act doles out three months of free health care to individuals who choose to default on their premiums; providers and insurers pick up the tab.

Tucked inside nearly 11,000 pages of the Affordable Care Act is a little-known provision that doles out three months of free health care to individuals who choose to default on their premiums.

People who receive the federal subsidy to be part of Obamacare will be allowed to incur a three-month “grace period” if they can’t pay their premiums and then simply cancel their policies, stiffing the doctors and hospitals.

Their only repercussion is that they have to wait until the following year’s open enrollment if they want coverage on the exchange.

“It will help break the system,” said Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, one of a core group of Republicans who oppose Obamacare. “This is a huge piece of evidence to show this can’t work, you will break the system and bankrupt people involved.

“The hospitals, doctors and insurance companies will be left holding the bag. There will be disagreements over who will pay for what. Lawyers will get involved because we are talking about a lot of money,” he said.

Under Section 156.270 of the Affordable Care Act, the insured needs to pay a premium for just one month before qualifying for the three-month grace period. The insurance company must pay the claims during the first month of the grace period; during the second and third month doctors and hospitals are left to collect unpaid bills.

This loophole wasn’t lost on some unnamed individuals who queried the Department of Health and Human Services during an open comment period for the new law in 2011.

While officials at HHS did not respond to requests for comment on this story, they did offer a glimpse into their thinking in a March 27, 2012, report contained in the Federal Register.

“HHS will continue to explore options for incentivizing appropriate use of the grace period,” the register said.  “HHS will monitor this issue moving forward and will continue to work on the development of policies to prevent misuse of the grace period.”

Experts say the federal government has given people the green light to commit fraud.

“In a sense, it legalizes fraud,” said Wesley J. Smith, a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute of Human Exceptionalism and a frequent critic of the Affordable Care Act. “It legalizes putting your burdens on the insurance companies’ shoulders and never paying your premiums. The government wants people to be irresponsible and apparently they want the whole system to descend into chaos.”

In Massachusetts, where a variation of Obamacare already exists, the problem already has emerged, said Devon Herrick, senior fellow with the National Center for Policy Analysis.

“People are signing up and getting care and bailing out,” Herrick said. “I was talking to an insurance agent a few years ago (in Massachusetts). She said once a week she would get a call from a college girl who discovers she’s pregnant and wants health insurance. That’s an example of a condition that you can schedule.”

Some medical professionals are bracing themselves for the worst.

The Texas Medical Association is educating its members about the loophole and receiving feedback from worried doctors. Many in that state operate on a shoestring budget, sometimes taking out loans to stay in business.

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  • Irish||

    Conan O'Brien makes joke about female Muslim superhero, liberals super pissed.

    Now, the joke is tasteless and offensive, but I question the left's sincerity for two reasons:

    1. Several of the angry responses call Conan 'racist' even though, once again, Islam is not a fucking race.

    2. Where were these oh-so-offended liberals when people on their side were mocking Mitt Romney's religion? Considering that Mormonism is a much smaller religion than Islam, shouldn't these super tolerant liberals have been seriously upset by their fellow travelers' anti-Mormon bigotry?

  • ||

    @ConanOBrien not that I’m offended or anything, but that joke was plain unfunny and unnecessary on so many levels

    — Abdulمحسن Alhashem (@Me7sin88) November 9, 2013

    I think that's possibly the best response to something like that. Entertainers want to be funny or at least controversial if people respond with a shrug and disinterest, then entertainers won't make that sort of joke.

  • Irish||

    It really isn't a funny joke. The thing is, it's no less funny than the jokes liberals were making about Mormonism, but for some reason none of them found it necessary to express their dismay about polygamy jokes when they were at Romney's expense.

  • ||

    Really? They're upset about a polygamist joke?

    I think you're spot-on with the Mormon comparison since plenty of liberals took shots at Romney's religious background, including making polygamist jokes about his ancestors.

  • Irish||

    There's also the little issue that Mormons have historically actually been an oppressed religious minority whereas Muslims have historically been the ones doing the oppressing. The Ottoman Empire and the Mughal Empire, the two most populous Muslim empires of the middle ages, were actually minority Muslim.* The Mughal Empire was in India and was predominantly Hindu while the Ottoman's controlled wide swaths of land that were almost totally Christian and Jewish. They were both run by hyper-expansionist imperialistic military castes that were completely Muslim.

    So Islam is a historically imperialist religious movement that has often oppressed minority groups whereas the Mormons spent most of the last 160 years fleeing religious oppression. How can liberals justify defending the first and mocking the second?

    Isn't that totally contrary to the left-wing claims that they're opposed to privilege and in favor of oppressed minorities?

    *The Ottoman's became a majority Muslim empire but that wasn't until hundreds of years after they were initially formed.

  • ||

    You went beyond step one in thinking through an issue, liberal socialists do not.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Well, it happens that Mormons are typically white and conservative, so there's that.

    Muslims are also in the minority in the US. Democrats have laid claim to all ethnic and religious minorities since they broke ties with the Klan.

  • Irish||

    Yeah, but Muslim minorities in the U.S., contrary to left-wing propaganda, have never been the victims of serious persecution. After 9/11, virtually none of the predictions of anti-Muslim violence came to pass. There's no other country on Earth that wouldn't have seriously abused a minority if members of that minority killed 3000 people in a terrorist attack.

    The more I travel the world and meet people of different nationalities, the more I am convinced that America is the least racist place on the planet.

  • CatoTheElder||

    True dat, Irish. Go to China, or Japan, or the Middle East, or Africa, or South America. Even France. My experience is that you'll see real, overt racial discrimination there without looking for it. In the US one has to imagine that another has racist intention or not understand ordinary English words like "niggardly" because there is no overt racial discrimination against historically oppressed minorities or other tangible evidence of racism outside of a few lunatic fringe groups that no sensible person would associate with.

    Americans even tolerate Paddy Papists like me, and presumably you, though this hasn't always been the case. And you never hear a Paddy Papist complain about the Notre Dame's team name, the Fightin' (and presumably drunk) Irish.

  • Rufus J. Firefly||

    Or look at Quebec with the values charter (supported by the intellectual giant Celine Dion) tabled by the xenophobic, ignorant, knee-slapping yokels in the Parti Quebecois. I can't think of any jurisdiction on the continent that goes this far.

  • Mercutio||

    How can liberals justify defending the first and mocking the second?


    Because, as far as I know, Mormons have never beheaded anyone who offended them while Muslims have done so on numerous occasions.

  • ||

    TEAM OUTRAGE doesn't make sense because they aren't acting rationally. They operate in a herd-like manner, and if something they might get outraged about is kind of iffy, they need one of the herd to start the stampede towards OUTRAGE. Because of their heavy overlap with TEAM BLUE, the Romney stuff didn't cause any of the herd to start an OUTRAGE stampede. The Conan thing, however, had no such partisan protection, and so of course they went FULL OUTRAGE because, well, it's what they do. They love it. They're addicted to it. Just give them a reason, and they will take it, unless it has some kind of partisan or other protection.

  • Jeff||

    My absolute favorite part of that whole awful election cycle was watching the progderps trash Romney for his great-grandfather's polygamy when their jug eared Jesus is one generation removed from his own family's polygamy.

  • Irish||

    Or watching them attack Romney for bullying in 1968 when Barack Obama admitted to getting in bar fights, doing cocaine, and drunk driving when he was younger.

  • fish_remote||

    ....when Barack Obama admitted to getting in bar fights

    How bad can a bar fight be in front of a gay bar?

  • Libertarius||

    You know he got his ass kicked, in any event.

  • Pathogen||

    "You know he got his ass kicked, in any event."

    Kicked, dicked... It's all gooood...

    /BarRock star

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    At least she'll have a religious reason to conceal her face. What religious excuses do Spiderman an Captain America have?

  • ||

    Oh come on. This is almost as dumb as Chinese-Americans protesting against Jimmy Kimmel because some hillbilly six-year-old said something about killing Chinese people.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    +1 pee-pee in your coke

  • CatoTheElder||

    I disagree. Talking about killing real people is indeed offensive. The kid was just spouting naive foolishness, but that segment should never have aired.

  • ||

    I don't really think you can characterize this as "talking about killing real people". He's talking about killing an abstract, faceless entity, and probably has very little idea what he means.

    Context and source matter; if it were an adult or even a teenager it could be offensive, but definitely not this.

  • CatoTheElder||

    That's why I said he was spouting naive foolishness.

    The adults should have had the sense to leave that segment on the cutting room floor.

  • ||

    And I'm saying it wasn't offensive, so there was no reason not to air it.

  • Dweebston||

    It's inoffensive coming from a child of that age; it's patently offensive when adults indulge it.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Was this the comment that was found offensive:

    O'Brien tweeted: "She has so many more special powers than her husband’s other wives."

    Seriously? It's not hilarious. But since Marvel has uncharacteristically identified the religion of a superhero for some bizarre reason, why shouldn't it be up for humorous consideration?

    Just wondering, what religion are most superheroes? I know that Thor and his gang are old Norse, but are there any others?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    The thing is jewish. I imagine the kung fu guy is buddhist.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Seriously? What kind of rabbi circumcised it? Orthodox or reform?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I presume that he had the, ah, [name of procedure omitted] as an infant, before his skin got all rocky as an adult.

    Wikipedia says: "Born on Yancy Street in New York City's Lower East Side, to a Jewish family, Benjamin Jacob "Ben" Grimm had an early life of poverty and hardship, shaping him into a tough, streetwise scrapper. His older brother Daniel, whom Ben idolized, was killed in a street gang fight when Ben was eight years old. This portion of his own life is modeled on that of Jack Kirby, who grew up on tough Delancey Street, whose brother died when he was young, whose father was named Benjamin, and who was named Jacob at birth."

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Why is the name of the procedure omitted? (Can't you bring yourself to say tonsillectomy?)

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    On Saturday, you can't mention

    abortion, and the campaign to promote same even after 20 weeks of gestation

    circumcision and the campaign to ban it

    gay marriage and its threat to religious freedom

    the worldwide war on Christianity

    So for goodness' sake don't discuss them!

  • Pathogen||

    Don't sugarcoat it..

  • ||

    I think most are "religion deliberately left unspecified", because we weren't always playing fucking victimhood roulette.

  • Irish||

    I don't even know that Thor and his gang are old Norse. They aren't Scandinavians, they're the actual gods of the Scandinavians.

    I have no idea what the gods on Valhalla would be worshiping.

    Your general point is right though. There's no real point in identifying the religion of a character except as a political statement since other characters don't have their religions mentioned.

    They didn't make her an Arab or a Persian character, they explicitly made her Muslim. That is pretty odd given that there aren't really any characters that they make explicitly Christian or Jewish.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Speaking of Arab superheroes, it would be awesome if Marvel would do a comic with Moe of Mecca set in the 6th Century BCE. That would be courageous.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    With his sidekicks al-Curly and al-Larry, he eyepokes the Jews to death.

  • Bobarian||

    1+ wise guy, soitenly! Nyuk!

  • fish_remote||

    I have no idea what the gods on Valhalla would be worshiping.

    The blessed provider of the Affordable Care Act!

  • The Hyperbole||

    Daredevil is catholic i think, at least Frank Miller seemed to imply it in one of his stints writing DD

  • Swiss Servator, I got nothing.||

    Yeah, his Mom was Sister Maggie the Nun, right?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Dr. Strange goes to the Unitarian Universalist Church. They don't hassle him about his mystical practices, since it's all part of the great web of diversity. Plus he makes a great pasta salad for the Sunday picnics.

    Captain America was Episcopalian back in the 40s, but when he was unfrozen later, he saw how un-American the Episcopalians had grown and switched to the Baptists.

    The Hulk is Pentecostal - he wouldn't want the kind of church where everyone is quiet.

    The X-Men go the Metropolitan Community Church, if you know what I mean.

    Elektra was raised Greek Orthodox, but is looking for a more stabbing-oriented community.

    The Punisher is one of the Nizari Ismailis, better known as the Assassins.

    Thor considers it declasse to worship himself or his own dad, so he became a Christian Scientist, which was awkward since his alter ego is a physician.

    Anything else you'd like me to educate you about?

  • CatoTheElder||

    Very good! Thanks very much!

  • ||

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Hellboy, daredevil, kid devil blue devil and the x men devil guy are all catholic?

    Ian Paisley was right about us!

  • ||

    The X-Men Devil Guy? Are you talking about Nightcrawler?

    Cloven feet, blue skin, pointy ears, yellow eyes and puffs in and out of reality with a smell of sulfur?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I forgot his name. Pretty lame being named after a form of bait. Scaaaaarrrrry!!!

  • CatoTheElder||

    Of course, but it was funny ... especially the X-Men line.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    And, cato, you realize my list was strictly non canon?

  • CatoTheElder||

    Duh.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Unitarians don't have a dogma - which makes it about the only "religion" worth a shit.

    The more dogma the shittier the religion is. Islam is the shittiest closely followed by Christianity.

    What the hell? They are all bullshit.

    Except mine, of course.

  • Vincent Milburn||

    Nightcrawler from X-Men is Roman Catholic.

  • Vincent Milburn||

    Should have read further.

  • fish_remote||

    1. Several of the angry responses call Conan 'racist' even though, once again, Islam is not a fucking race.

    Don't think of it as anything except a trump card played by the moral preening proglodyte left!

  • Killazontherun||

    Indeed. Not only that, but Mohammed was a ginger just like Conan, so, O'Brien should be clear to criticize him to his hearts content if leftist identity rules apply.

  • Killazontherun||

    Good grief --

    http://thisistwitchy.files.wor.....2kdns.jpeg

    Female empowerment reaches its naive Arabesque phase two centuries after the original sub-genre movement. It will probably result in the same damn boring as hell literature.

  • Irish||

    Wow. One of the books she has is called 'Hadith to Live By.'

    If I were a Muslim, I'd actually be kind of offended that they couldn't create a Muslim character that's clearly secularized and had to give her a book about Hadith on the cover of her first issue.

    You know, just in case you couldn't figure out she's a Muslim. I imagine every issue will begin with her facing Mecca lest you forget that Islam is her only character trait.

  • ||

    I can't think of a politicized superhero that wasn't intensely unpopular. Think of how fucking terrible Captain Planet was. Which makes complete sense; art and entertainment is ruined by overt politicization.

    Have fun with Ms. Marvel, Marvel! Don't lose too much money!

  • CatoTheElder||

    I wonder if Ms. Marvel's Hadith to Live By includes this little gem:

    Cutting out the clitoris is obligatory

    e4.3 Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris (this is called Hufaad)

    Reliance of the Traveller: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law
    Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri

    I'm sure this will make for a curious little subplot.

  • ||

    Dude, there is so much with this superhero that has the potential to cause major butthurt. First of all, as you point out, the collision between traditional Islam and the way it treats women. Secondly, it's a politicized superhero, which means--if history is any guide--that it will be unpopular and have terrible storylines, because forced politicization ruins art. Which means more butthurt that she's not popular; there will undoubtedly be accusation of male privilege and anti-Muslim sentiment and lots more.

    It should be pretty entertaining.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    I did suggest in a tweet that one of her superpowers was having atomic orgasms despite having been genitally mutilated.

    Maybe the knife had been dropped in neutrino-rich vita-rays and the gypsy woman had neglected to wipe it off. When she removed the sex organ, another one grew back a million times more powerful. Now, when Muslim-girl sees a pork chop or a glass of Merlot, she loses control and has such an earth-shaking cum that the whole area busts up like a scene from Inception.

  • juris imprudent||

    Someone is channeling SF.

  • Pathogen||

    This is why we can't have nice things...

  • ||

    How the fuck is cutting off the entire clitoris analogous with removing the foreskin? That would be like removing the entire tip.

    Aw, I broke Ted's weekend rule of no circumscion discussion.

  • Madisonian||

    I actually had to explain to my adult cousin that circumcision is *not* removing the tip.

  • Bobarian||

    Especially since Ms Marvel is bulletproof (but, apparently not rape proof)

    http://carolastrickland.com/comics/msmarvel/

  • ||

    To be fair, the book of Mormon is much more obviously written by a con artist than the Koran.

  • Killazontherun||

    I tried reading through the Koran, every page after he got a point across he would underline it with some variation of 'death to those who doubt my words, Allah will punish you for it!' That kind of made me have my doubts. If your word is so airtight and comes from a higher being, it would possess those qualities on its own without threat, right?

  • fish_remote||

    I tried reading through the Koran, every page after he got a point across he would underline it with some variation of 'death to those who doubt my words,

    Perfectly suited to the middle east then?

  • juris imprudent||

    Well the fertile crescent was the birthplace of civilization right? Makes sense that all the shit of humanity would be sourced nearby.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    There's also that thing about apostasy being a capital crime. I mean, who would ever think to leave the perfect religion?

  • juris imprudent||

    Because an eternity in hell can't come to soon.

  • Pathogen||

    "I tried reading through the Koran diary of a bloodthirsty sociopath, every page after he got a point across he would underline it with some variation of 'death to those who doubt my words, Allah will punish 'I, or some other sap, will fucking kill you for it, infidel/ apostate!'"

    You doubt the veracity of hallucinations truth, attested to by a murderous psychopath? Off with your head!...

  • JeremyR||

    True, but the Koran is clearly written by a psychotic.

    It's like Charles Manson re-telling the Old Testament.

  • JeremyR||

    Then again, does Manson occasionally break into rants about Jews?

  • crazyfingers||

    I find every Conan O Brian monologue offensive since it consists of snarky liberal stupidity, to the point where I don't even watch anymore.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Irish, since when do proglodytes let little things like reason or intellectual consistency interfere with a good dose of team hate? Mormons tend to be conservative. George W. Bush went to war with Muslims. Enough said.

  • GregMax||

    Not to mention that "race" itself is a bogus construct. I think there are just some many ignoramuses out there who use the word 'racist' when the more accurate word would be something like prejudicial or tacky or insensitive. Can't fix stupid.

  • GregMax||

    (I wish there was an 'edit' function.)

  • Sevo||

    “HHS will continue to explore options for incentivizing appropriate use of the grace period,”

    You bet! And Obo is 'sorry' about the lost coverages, too.

  • rxc||

    No, Obo is sorry that the doctors and other medical providers find themselves placed in this situation by the failure of the Republicans to support his wonderful program.

  • rxc||

    There should be a (/sarc) on the end of the above.

  • Sevo||

    Got the intended sarc, but it's amazing how much of this was (supposedly) driven by Obo's fear that the Rethugs were going to find out how horrible it was and get it undone:
    ..."the project was hampered by the White House’s political sensitivity to Republican hatred of the law — sensitivity so intense that the president’s aides ordered that some work be slowed down or remain secret for fear of feeding the opposition."...
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

  • OneOut||

    And if they fear it's going to feed the opposition then they must know it's bad for America.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Only a sucker pays for 12 months if he only has to pay for 9 months.

    Look, I don't have a choice but to participate in ObamaCare. The bastards made the rules and forced the system on me. Just like I'm going to take my Social Security check and Medicare when the time comes, I'm only going to pay for nine months if that's the system. I use the roads and the USPS on occasion as well. Just because I am a libertarian doesn't mean that I have to be a sucker. It doesn't really make much difference: the system is going to crash and burn soon enough.

  • CatoTheElder||

    In other words, I'm only a deadbeat if I fail to make good on contracts that I entered without coercion.

    Coerce me into something and my standards for just conduct are different from those of a voluntary contract. I will game every rule to my advantage. Whereas sharp-dealing is tantamount to fraud in a voluntary contract, it is part and parcel of successfully dealing with state coercion.

  • OneOut||

    Yes

  • ||

    Yep.

  • ||

    Totally agreed. I have zero qualms even with lying or cheating in such a case, because the coercer (in this case, the government) has aggressed against me. So fuck them. We're already on a hostile footing, and it wasn't me that started it.

  • Boisfeuras||

    "It would be therefore foolish and martyrish for us to renounce such apartments if available, to refuse to eat any food grown under government regulation, to refuse to use the Post Office, etc. Our responsibility is to agitate and work to remove this statist situation; apart from that, that is all we can rationally do. I live in a rent-controlled apartment, but I have also written and agitated for many years against the rent-control system, and urged its repeal. That is not hypocrisy or betrayal, but simply rationality and good sense."
    – Murray Rothbard, "Living in a State-Run World", Liberty, December 1987

  • Faceless Commenter||

    It sounds as though your behavior will crash and burn the system all the faster. So carry on.

  • Killazontherun||

    I understand the moral dilemma you face here, and within that frame work imposed on you, you are trying to do the best that you can. I suggest though that there is a higher ground you could stand on where you risk nothing in terms of being true to the purity of your conscience. You have neighbors all around you that are employed in the public sector. Rob them. Stick them up. Steal their possessions to cover the cost that they otherwise have fostered on you to the extent it makes up for the price of which you would otherwise be burdened. But not a penny more, after that you run foul of the NAP.

  • CatoTheElder||

    I lack any of the talent necessary to be a successful criminal, Killa, so I'm going to have to go the more conventional route. I can't even lie worth a damn, so I can't even go as far as Episarch suggests.

    I am just going to game the system within the system's rules.

  • Pathogen||

    "I am just going to game the system within the system's rules."

    They are absolutely counting on it, and hope you do just enough to hook you. Them goalposts wander from administration to administration, and it's meant to keep the players on their toes...

  • CatoTheElder||

    It's a hobby of mine to figure out how to game the system. It's a very profitable hobby once you actually have to pay taxes.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    "apparently they want the whole system to descend into chaos"
    ------------------------
    I'm trying hard to think of any justification for this. Get the poor and slackass vote? Already done: subsidies. Mitigate the damage being done to the middle class? They've already dismissed that measly 5%. I guess punishing doctors and insurers is mostly it.

    When are the insurers going to turn on him? They are the most pathetic bunch of kapos in this scheme.

    As for doctors, I guess they're too busy treating patients, filling out managed care forms, and moonlighting as house painters to do a Million Whitecoat March, but a group with their networking infrastructure should have some organization more representative and activist than that douche AMA speaking up for them. Or maybe they do but I don't know about it.

    Anyway, it's an ironic fact that it's easier to screw 120 million Americans than it is to screw a small minority, and we have here two minorities that have their hands on some big levers. Why are they simply shoving them up their own ureters?

  • CatoTheElder||

    At least Julia will get free contraceptives and other gynecological services that are worth up to $1210 per year according to Center for American Progress.

    http://www.americanprogress.or.....macare.pdf

    You must hate women.

  • fish_remote||

    I'll provide Julia her gynecological "services".

  • Faceless Commenter||

    I'm one of the self-hating libertarian women.

  • fish_remote||

    I'll help you with your gynecological "services" too!

  • Irish||

    Is that why you won't show people your face?

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Au contraire. I don't want to blind people with my beauty.

  • Contrarian P||

    Doctors in general are too busy treating their patients and dealing with the day to day issues of essentially being independent businesspeople to in aggregate do anything about health care legislation. Many physicians supported Obamacare for the same reason a lot of other people did: they bought the line of bullshit that it would make everything so much better with no downside. Most docs know a lot about medicine, but very little about history, economics, or other things.

    The biggest problem with being a doctor is that we have no leverage. We get paid much more than the average person so we don't get much sympathy when we complain. We also go to school and residency for a decade in the years when people are most likely to be activists: when they don't have a family to deal with in addition to work. The organizations which claim to represent us largely don't. Most importantly, we can't go on strike without having a massive public backlash, to say nothing of that fact that we'd be abandoning our patients that we've sworn to treat.

    I understand why so many of my colleagues now are switching to concierge practices. They get to feel like they're doctors and spend real time actually talking to patients. They aren't coerced by nearly as much paperwork. Of course, that'll last until some politicians decide they need to outlaw it, because it discriminates unfairly against the poor, or some other thing that plays well in the media.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Well, you've confirmed a few of my points, but it still surprises me that doctors fell for this shit since it affects them directly and I think of them as people who can afford lawyers and accountants and financial advisors. I also think of them as being all networked through boards and societies and professional organizations that would lend themselves to "spreading the word" about the perils of Obamacare, but yes, this is an outsider's view. On the other hand, when Obama accused doctors of performing unnecessary amputations just to pad their bank accounts, you'd think that would be a wake-up call. He's never said anything that filthy about actors or athletes, even though their excesses and privileges are legend.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    Doctors didn't fall for it. Many of them quietly opposed it. Many of them, like my wife, don't pay attention to politics and are only now being confronted by it. And the AMA does not even come close to representing even a plurality of doctors but they're also finally getting the sticker shock.

  • RickC||

    Really interesting take on how we got here by a doctor with lots of experience. Longish.

    http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/39971.html

  • Harvard||

    [The biggest problem with being a doctor is that we..] are collectively the dumbest fucking businessmen in the world.

  • mad_hominist||

    I don't remember too many docs being very vocal in opposition to this thing when it started, so part of me just doesnt care. (Although most of my parts aren't very healthy, and do care).

  • Sevo||

    mad_hominist|11.9.13 @ 4:03PM|#
    "I don't remember too many docs being very vocal in opposition to this thing when it started,"...

    I don't, either, and I remember a doc in a New Yorker article criticizing an econ comment about how incentives matter with some throw-away line about 'where do they get this stuff?'
    Well, bozo, they get it in *their* studies. Stick with your aspirin; your knowledge of econ matches theirs of medicine.

  • Contrarian P||

    Most of us had no idea what was in it, just like Pelosi and the rest of the country.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    But, but -- didn't that right there kind of bother them? If there was a new federal law that massively reordered my industry, I'd at least read up to find out exactly how it was going to affect me. Then again, that neurosurgeon I dated was a genius in class, an idiot in real life, and a useless practitioner.

  • Bryan C||

    They operate on the assumption that the people in charge of their industry got there by being competent.

  • Madisonian||

    Around the time of the 9/12/09 rally there was a smaller one of doctors against Obamacare, on the National Mall.

  • Fluffy||

    IT'S A TRAP.

    The second iteration of Romneycare - the part where "we took care of coverage, now we're going to take care of costs" - effectively nationalized (Commonwealthized?) medical debt.

    Any bad debt that doctors and hospitals can't collect in MA is going to start being sold to the state, and the state will collect it.

    When that shoe drops, I fully expect that debt to be treated as the equivalent of tax debt or child support debt, and to be nondischargeable in bankruptcy.

    So if the ACA appears to be incentivizing people into accumulating bad medical debt, WATCH OUT.

    I can easily see the end game here being using student loan debt, unpaid penaltaxes, and unpaid nationalized medical debt to lock people into service to the state. Easily. Favored groups will get their debts waived; unfavored groups won't. They're already doing it with student loan debt, so why won't they do it with the others?

  • CatoTheElder||

    Of course IT'S A TRAP.

    But even traps can be successfully gamed.

  • ||

    "...lock people into service to the state..."

    I keep thinking how well that worked out for the confederacy. Oh, and the line from Schindler's list where he declared that not one round of ammunition from his factory would ever work in the guns they were designed for.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Yeah, something along these lines occurred to me when I read it. Personally, I don't know which would scare me more, having to see a doctor who isn't comfortable witht the prospect of living as my slave or having to see a doctor who is.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Interesting article because (a) it involves a sex scandal involving a Catholic priest and an adult woman (21 y/o), and (b) the Minnesota Supreme Court upheld the statute under which he was convicted, under which clergy who abuse a spiritual counseling relationship are specifically targeted for punishment. The priest contended that this law, especially as applied to him, got the government too involved in religious matters.

    http://www.crookstontimes.com/...../1001/NEWS

    Earlier story, mentioning the age of the putative victim:

    http://www.twincities.com/ci_20028096

  • Fluffy||

    I think the priest got a bum rap.

    All laws of that type have no valid basis.

  • XM||

    This is a leaked picture of the Muslim superheroine's arch nemesis -

    http://elderofziyon.blogspot.c.....n6wwvk3uJ0

  • Irish||

    That is some horribly anti-Semitic bullshit right there.

  • fish_remote||

    "Foreskin Man".....band name??

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Species. Evolved sometime between Peking Man and Homo Erectus.

  • Pathogen||

    I figured it would be something like this, but that is muuuch better...

  • GILMORE||

    Just as a 'thought experiment'...

    I'm "catholic" in the sense I was raised that way, have some cultural connections to catholic traditions & holidays (e.g. 'Easter' is a fairly serious religious event, not a hallmark holiday involving bunnies and eggs), but basically zero religious connection whatsoever. Was never confirmed, do not take communion, may attend midnight mass once a year but otherwise might as well be an atheist.

    When the catholic-priest child abuse scandals blew up a few years back, I was aghast/appalled/disgusted and to a degree unsurprised because I was aware of the widespread hypocrisy and corruption embedded in institutional religion. A decade of jokes about catholic priests molesting children has not phased me in the slightest, aside from occasionally thinking that genuinely-religious catholics must be getting fucking tired of it at some point. Generally the feeling is, "The mockery is probably deserved, and there's not much to be gained by getting indignant about it"

    Switch to the perspective of a Western, American, largely-'secularized' Muslim, for whom the religion is mostly about the 'big stuff': Ramadan, no pork, no booze*, etc. I've known plenty of these over the years. (*most drank, but infrequently, and always were like, 'just this once...') - is this person expected to get deeply offended when people refer to the behaviors of fundamentalists, zealots, traditionalists etc?

  • CatoTheElder||

    In 21st Century America, everybody aspires to victimhood status. It is seen as a way to get ahead.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    No, but there's a ritual "mode" that anyone can go into at anytime. Whatever minority or affinity group or tribe or whatever to which you have any tenuous connection can invoke this "mode." You perform the rite, then retire back into routine life until another trigger is offered, and you may go briefly back into the mode and perform the ritual.

  • JeremyR||

    The problem is, there number of secularized Muslims seem to be shrinking.

    Growing up, one of my friends as Muslim. Other than having curly hair and being named Omar, was he any different than any other kid? No.

    But now, that's not the case. I got to Walmart, I see dozens of women in those headdress things, and quite frequently, full on burkhas.

  • Redmanfms||

    My theory on this is that literacy of Muslims in non-Muslim nations tends to be much higher. As Muslims learn about their religion (and how fucking horrifying it really is) they are left with two options; turn their backs on the culture and fully Westernize, or cave to familial/cultural bonds and radicalize. Since the latter option is made all the easier by useful idiots on the Left telling them how "abused" and "oppressed" they are by Western culture most end up going with it.

  • ||

    Andrew O'Hehir weeps for Berkeley

    In retrospect, I wonder whether Reagan’s assault on Berkeley wasn’t the zero moment of the conservative revolution, a magical melding of anti-elitism, anti-intellectualism and anxiety about government spending. Reagan and his supporters couldn’t understand why the Golden State’s taxpayers should fund a world-class research university, especially since it seemed to be producing radicals and dissidents in large numbers. Higher education was seen as an instrumental value, because we need to supply society with enough doctors and engineers and so forth, but never as a valuable public benefit in itself. More than four decades later, we see Berkeley chancellor Robert Birgeneau (who retired this year) tell a group of administrators and faculty leaders that state funding has fallen to 16 percent of the school’s annual budget, an all-time low. While he insists that Berkeley can find ways to maintain its “public character,” that’s almost a term of art at this point.

    And yet the number of bureaucrats, I mean, 'senior managers' within the UC system has grown exponentially in recent years.

    THERE'S NOTHING LEFT TO CUT

  • ||

    First sentence:

    How long will it take us to understand that the entire neoliberal project – the puritanical mania for cutting taxes, cutting social services and cutting budget deficits that has dominated the Western world’s economy for more than 30 years – has been a disaster?

    You can pretty much stop there.

  • Irish||

    Yes. Government has been cut to the bone in the last 30 years. There has been no increase in bureaucracy. We do not have 10 million unaccountable government contractors. There have been no failed crony capitalist projects. No city, state, or government tax has increased in the last 30 years.

    California is rebounding admirably due to the destruction of the Republican party. Republican obstructionists are the reason Obamacare is failing.

    Any other liberal lies we can list?

  • Irish||

    Sidenote: I read a Guardian article and one of the comments claimed that Japan and England were failing because of Neoliberalism.

    Japan and England. The first is a country with 220% debt-to-GDP and the second is a country in which over 50% of people believe they should have price controls on all food.

    Truly they are experiments in neo-liberalism. Yet more evidence that liberals don't know the meaning of any words they use.

  • ||

    I can at least understand that England is included because of Thatcher. But I have no idea on what basis you would include Japan in there.

  • ||

    Take a read of this comment:

    Market forces" are not immutable and unchangeable. Markets are human constructs and made by people. They can be changed by people and have been many times. Recently, all the changes have been for the benefit of the powerful and wealthy. Only reason we can't change the market back more for the benefit of poorer folk is that the poorer folk haven't organized enough nor thought it through deeply enough.

    Supply and demand, scarcity, human action, all constructs of the 1%!

  • Irish||

    Scarce resources are a myth created solely to oppress the proletariat.

  • Sevo||

    It's true.
    I have warehouses stacked with petroleum, gold, rare earths, rubber, iron, just about any commodity you can name.
    And I'M KEEPING IT ALL! It's not for sale, I'm just keeping it to prove that supply and demand are true.
    So there!

  • DH||

    "As Nobel-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz recently noted, census data reveals that men with high-school diplomas but without college degrees earn about 40 percent less today (in real terms) than they did in the 1970s. Obama didn’t do that; capitalism did."

    Any relation to Hugo Stieglitz?

  • Irish||

    As Nobel-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz recently noted, census data reveals that men with high-school diplomas but without college degrees earn about 40 percent less today (in real terms) than they did in the 1970s. Obama didn’t do that; capitalism did.

    Conveniently left out is the fact best displayed by this graph.

    In 1970, 50% of Americans over 25 had a high school degree. Today, almost 90% of Americans over 25 have a high school degree. 30% today have a college degree and only 10% did in 1970.

    That's why people with high school diplomas earn less. It's because a high school diploma in 1970 put you in the top half of workers and today it only means you're not in the bottom 10%. Meanwhile, a lot of jobs that used to only require a high school diploma now require a Bachelor's Degree because such a large number of people have them.

    That statistic is actually a function of higher educational attainment, but this guy is too dumb to actually think a problem through.

  • DH||

    Ya it's a bunk of bullshit. Working wages wouldn't matter if shit wasn't so exspensive. This guy probably hates walmart too, cause they "gouge" their workers wages supposedly to keep prices low. But hey, a person stocking yogurt should make 20$ hr right?

  • Ted S.||

    Meanwhile, a lot of jobs that used to only require a high school diploma now require a Bachelor's Degree because such a large number of people have them.

    More like because it's a way of getting around unconstitutional testing schemes. (I think it's Griggs v. Duke Power Co. that's the relevant case?)

    And of course, it's inflating the higher-ed bubble.

  • ||

    Wikipedia says this wrt Griggs:

    Justice Ginsburg's dissent in Ricci v. DeStefano suggests that the Griggs conclusion (that Congress aimed beyond “disparate treatment”; it targeted “disparate impact” as well and proscribed not only overt discrimination but also practices that are fair in form, but discriminatory in operation) has been effectively overturned by the Ricci decision.

    That's all I've heard, though, and I think most companies are still in CYA mode about it.

  • Brendan||

    I feel like Bill Hicks today, filling up my hump of hate vis-a-vis salon.com articles.

    I avoid slate, salon, and the huffiingtonpost as much as possible.

    Every now and then I get curious OR I slip and find myself there and realize why I hate them so much.

    Reading the comments on slate or huffingtonpost helps be build a secondary reserve of hate.

    Thanks Reason for helping me fill up the hump.

  • OldMexican||

    The Affordable Care Act doles out three months of free health care to individuals who choose to default on their premiums; providers and insurers pick up the tab.


    Shriek's years of sucking the president's junk finally paid off for him.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "In Israel, ultra-Orthodox rockers win over hearts on talent show

    "...Of the dozen young, nervous, plucky contestants with heart-rending back stories on “Rising Star,” a pair of singers stood out among all the tooth whitening, hair gel and sassy skirts: the brothers Gil and Arie Gat, a pair of middle-aged ultra-Orthodox Jews.

    "...Their fame began a few weeks ago when they covered the Simon and Garfunkel chestnut “The Sounds of Silence” and rocked out on the lyrics: “The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls/ And tenement halls . . . .”

    "The following week they performed “Hotel California” by the Eagles, with Gil, 37, jamming on electric guitar and Arie, 48, strumming an acoustic and singing in accented English.

    "...“We don’t cross any red lines,” said Arie, who confesses he is more of a drummer than guitarist. “We have the blessing of our rabbis. The food is proper. We don’t see immodest dress.” And very important — “we don’t see the women dancing.”

    "When female contestants perform, the Gat brothers retire to their dressing room, because it is against their beliefs to hear women sing."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

  • ||

    Against their beliefs to hear women sing? I would fucking kill myself.

    The sight of, sound of, smell of, feel of ....the presence of women is all that makes life worth living. Everything else is just filler.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    But see Judges 5 and Exodus 15:20-21

  • Pathogen||

    Or don't... ignorance is bliss...

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Deborah was one of tge earliest female rappers.

  • Pathogen||

    I... did not know that.

  • Madisonian||

    I just saw their covers of "Sound of Silence" and Clapton's "Tears in Heaven," they are very talented.

  • ||

    Lest we forget that cops are shitty everywhere:

    After learning that he cannot get milk tea at Wu’s rice noodle shop, Hu [the police officer] pointed his gun at one of the two customers and asked again: “So you don’t sell milk tea, do you?” At that point, everyone at the scene can feel the tension.

    Wu then told Hu to walk down the street for milk tea, but just as she finished the sentence, her husband was shot in the shoulder. When she tried to walk out to call for help, Hu aimed the gun at her and fired, first in her head, then in her belly.
  • Jeff||

    Hu shot a pregnant woman?

  • ||

    oy vey

  • Faceless Commenter||

    I'm actually kind of surprised Chinese cops carry guns. Learn something every day.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    The scary thing about police that, like so many other things, America is actually better than at nine-tenths of the rest of the world. Here, we still operate under the illusion that the police are here to "serve and protect" (I know, stop laughing). You go nearly anywhere else, the cops are usually lazy or already being paid off by someone.

    The saving grace of the English is that they don't have sidearms on hand to shoot you with.

  • CatoTheElder||

    I used to think that, but then I lived overseas.

    I'd much rather encounter a Chinese cop than an American cop. The Chinese cops are actually pretty friendly in my experience. Well, except for around Tiananmen Square where they are a bit uptight. American cops are always a pain-in-the-ass and every encounter ends up costing money. Some guys even literally get the pain-in-the-ass.

    Heck, even Saudi cops compare favorably with American cops. At least I never got a speeding ticket.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Never got a speeding ticket? I assume then you kept the appropriate "driving money" in the glove compartment?

  • CatoTheElder||

    Nope. Six years, never paid attention to posted speed limits, and never got a ticket.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Okay, dude. But I think you're oversimplifying and overgeneralizing in several ways.

  • CatoTheElder||

    But the Chinese Communists respond to such abuses a bit more forcibly than in the US.

    Policeman arrested, six officials sacked over fatal shooting of pregnant woman
    http://www.scmp.com/news/china.....l-shooting

    If this happened in the US, there would have been a cover story of how she resisted arrest by making a quick move for her cleaver. Procedures were followed, but maybe more officer training will be in order when fictional (US) Officer Ping returns from paid leave. And you know that none of his superiors would be fired.

    In real-life China, Officer Hu Ping is not long for this world. The six officials are in deep shit and face a lifetime of penury.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Just to be clear: I'm not a Chinese apologist. The State is evil everywhere. It's just that American are indoctrinated to believe that there State is better than everywhere else. Having lived overseas for about ten years, I do not think that it is anything special. Sure, its founding documents are highminded, but in practice the US government sucks.

  • CatoTheElder||

    there=their

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Whoo, are you kidding? I eagerly tell my foreign pals that the very WORST Americans are in the government. The laziest, the most power-mad, the dumbest, the most sanctimonious, the most hypocritical, the most criminal, the least competent, you name it. Our system is the best, but the people in it, eeiisshhhh.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Sounds like we pretty much agree. I prefer the Swiss canton system, but the US system is very good. Unfortunately, it does not work in practice.

  • ||

    Thanks for pointing that out. It's good to hear.

  • JeremyR||

    "After all, there is certain truth in the Chinese saying that the police are but certified gangsters."

    So true...

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    President Obama considered veteran Harlem Rep. Charles Rangel a political hack and had such little regard for Jesse Jackson that he “effectively banned” the civil rights leader from the White House, a new book claims.

    The political tome about the 2012 presidential campaign, “Double Down,” says Obama had little patience for “professional left” activists and “vanishingly close to zero” for what a White House aide called “professional blacks.”

    “Apart from Georgia Congressman John Lewis and Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, Obama had nearly as much contempt for the CBC (Congressional Black Caucus) as he did for the Tea Party Caucus,” the book says.

    http://nypost.com/2013/11/07/o.....ok-claims/

    And the stupid Teabags think Obama is a black militant.

  • Libertarius||

    Obummer is an impotent, flailing hack (just like you and the rest of the leftoids).

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    The POTUS is impotent? You are fucking brain-dead stillbirth for sure.

    No POTUS is ever impotent - politically speaking.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    No, the stupid Libtards think Obama is a black militant. The uptowners he has dissed know better, but they ain't sayin' nothin'.

    The Teabaggers know he is a militant who happens to be Black, and like all militants (Clintonite, Pelosite, Jacksonite) he feeds crumbs to Blacks with one hand and whacks them with the other.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    So little you know.

    Idiot progressives long ago gave up on Obama for not pushing for single-payer, staying in Afghanistan too long, and not prosecuting the "criminal banksters". All are stupid reasons, of course.

    Bill Clinton is about as centrist as you can get - even signing the shitty DOMA and NAFTA in the 90s.

    Really, don't try again. I know a lot more than you ever will.

  • Sevo||

    ..."I know a lot more than you ever will."

    Chemically-induced chutzpah, or stupidity?
    You decide.

  • DH||

    Yes.

  • juris imprudent||

    And a bag of chips. Stale chips.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Of course, that's why he has an approval rating among Blacks of 82% and Democrats of 78%.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Well, because we are in a binary system. I approve of Obama only because I know the Bush/GOP alternative is so bad. There are many better alternatives. We could get Santorum stuck on us.

    In an ideal setting Obama would be compared to say - the top hundred most qualified people and would appear merely average.

  • Pathogen||

    "I approve of Obama only because I know the Bush/GOP alternative is so bad."

    Sooo.. Obama ended all of that Boooooosh!!!?!/GOP bullshit, and established himself as a clear alternative?

  • Charlotte Falcon||

    You think he's average compared to the top 100 most qualified people? Really? I don't care what your political ideology is, you can't possibly believe that.
    I think Obama's legacy will be that he was the least qualified President of the 20th century. And yes, I am including Bush II in there. Bush at least failed at business and was a weak Governor. Obama did close to nothing with his life before running for President. He didn't even finish his first term as Senator.

  • Brian D||

    Obama wasn't president in the 20th century.

    /nitpick

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    In an ideal setting Obama would be compared to say - the top hundred most qualified people and would appear merely average.

    Thus shriek puts the lie to his "libertarian disaffected with the GOP" schtick.

    Don't feed the troll people.

  • Irish||

    What the fuck is wrong with NAFTA? Virtually all of the opponents to NAFTA are either deluded Marxists who yearn for a world without evil KKKorporations trading across national borders or xenophobes who worry about Mexicans invading America and Americans taking over Canadian companies.

    So which of these groups does an arch-libertarian like yourself support?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    I support full free trade with no tariffs (redundant).

    Apparently Clinton did too.

    I waffle on NAFTA because I suspect it has trade quotas but I am not sure.

  • Irish||

    Bill Clinton is about as centrist as you can get - even signing the shitty DOMA and NAFTA in the 90s.

    Okay. So was the shitty here only meant to apply to DOMA and NAFTA was just thrown in as an example of Clinton's centrism?

    For the record, I do agree that Clinton became relatively centrist, at least after the drubbing in 1994. Of course, someone should probably tell the Democrats that since they seem to think that the success of the least left-wing Democrat since JFK somehow proves what a great idea their crazed socialism is.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Yes to the first question.

    And I delight in the fact that the full of shit Michael Moore called Clinton the "best Republican President in his lifetime".

    "Centrism" is another way of saying "social liberal and fiscal tightwad/capitalist" - which is the goal, isn't it?

  • ||

    If I recall NAFTA was something of a disaster for Mexico because we massively subsidized corn production in the US. Mexico should've been able to massively export corn to the US, but due to our subsidies corn flowed the other way, and crushed many Mexican farmers.

    I wouldn't be surprised if this led to increased power of cartels as pot ended up being a more lucrative crop.

  • Irish||

    Of course, that's a reason to be opposed to subsidies, not to NAFTA.

    Furthermore, even though our subsidies may have hurt Mexican corn farmers, Mexico's per capita GDP has jumped from $8,000 to $14,000 in real GDP since NAFTA was signed.

    What would their GDP have been without NAFTA? Obviously impossible to tell, but I don't think you can say it's been a disaster. You also have to consider that this GDP growth occurred in spite of Northern Mexico being a borderline war zone where legitimate economic activity is almost impossible.

  • ||

    No, you're right, I should've qualified that it was a disaster for a subset of Mexican farmers who should've significantly benefited from the policy. And I agree wholeheartedly that it was subsidies that are the problem.

  • Irish||

    I also am a bit suspect of per capita GDP rates in Mexico. Given that a large portion of Mexico's marginal workforce is now living in the Southwestern United States, it's likely that some of that per capita growth is actually due to the loss of emigrating poor people.

  • Pathogen||

    "I wouldn't be surprised if this led to increased power of cartels as pot ended up being a more lucrative crop.

    Good point, one I never really thought about...

  • ||

    Hmm...

    "Giant sucking sound"...

    Buttplug...

  • Pathogen||

    "I know a lot more than you ever will."

    Objection! Assumes facts not entered into evidence...

  • montana mike||

    That's rich, an abject retard (no wait special needs, don't want to offend) troll is going (postal/evangelical), take yer pick.

    Piss off idiot.

  • ||

    Goddamn America for thinking that about the black Jesus!

  • Irish||

    Well, delusional narcissists tend to have low opinions of just about everyone. Anyone who isn't currently genuflecting before Obama's throne is to be viewed with suspicion or outright hatred.

  • CatoTheElder||

    ^ THIS

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Palin's Buttwipe,

    And the stupid Teabags think Obama is a black militant.


    Despite the fact that he said that if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin?

  • Irish||

    Family of kidnapped woman save her from her abductor, shoot the kidnapper as he tries to murder the woman.

    It's a serious story, but this part made me laugh:

    Meanwhile, officers who heard the gun shots fired surrounded the home, Judice said. Upon entering, they found Thomas' lifeless body on the ground. He had sustained several gunshot wounds.

    Thomas' cause of death is not known, Judice said. An autopsy on the body will be conducted by Lafayette Parish Coroner Ken Odinet, but it is not known when it will take place.

    Not to make too wild an assumption, but I suspect it was the bullet wounds.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Wow. There is some serious coolness to the story, too. The family reported the abduction and then went on their own search. Found the victim with her lousy abducter, sneaked up to the house, kicked in the door, shot the fucker, and saved the girl.

    "No charges have been filed against the man who shot Thomas, and it is unlikely that the man will be charged, Judice said."

  • ||

    If I were the coroner I would say the guy tripped and fell on his own knife.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "Authorities searched the sugarcane field Wednesday night and all day Thursday, but to no avail, [police spokesdude] Judice said. The cane towers as high as eight feet tall and was "a brutal search area" for officials, he said.

    "It wasn't until Friday morning, when Arceneaux's family members conducted *their own search in the same area* that they came upon a secluded, abandoned house behind a cluster of trees.

    "The house was directly across the street from the field where Thomas abandoned his car, but only the home's roof was visible from the road, Judice said."

    Oh, well, only the roof was visible. That totally explains the fact that the cops weren't able to find it after hours and hours of searching, but the family was able to locate the house after the cops had "gone home to their families."

    At least they have the grace not to charge the guy who rescued his relative.

  • ||

    When seconds count, the police are only hours away (assuming they can find the place).

  • VG Zaytsev||

    When seconds count....cops are safe at home with their families.

  • Pathogen||

    "Not to make too wild an assumption, but I suspect it was the bullet wounds."

    Well, that.. and the profuse bleeding, and maybe some blunt trauma.... Perhaps, we'll never know.

  • DH||

    Ya it's a bunk of bullshit. Working wages wouldn't matter if shit wasn't so exspensive. This guy probably hates walmart too, cause they "gouge" their workers wages supposedly to keep prices low. But hey, a person stocking yogurt should make 20$ hr right?

  • DH||

    Whoops, put this in the wrong place, ever happen to you?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Reason should not quote Louiee! Gohmert - the biggest fucking idiot in Congress.

    (ok Sheila Jackson-Lee is often cited here as the biggest idiot so we will call it a tie since they are both dumb as a bag of nails.)

  • Sevo||

    Hey, shitbag, you left out Boxer and that hag who promoted your fave medical disaster.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Has anyone else seen this report yet?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18.....hcare.gov/

    Dudes code an alternative to healthcare.gov basically over a weekend.

    Seems to work pretty well, too. Give it a shot!

    http://www.thehealthsherpa.com/

    So, they got it up in a few days, and I bet it cost them a lot less than the $umpty ump million the government spent on healthcare.gov, too.

  • Ken Shultz||

    It's fast too!

  • Ken Shultz||

    It doesn't crash or spin.

  • Ken Shultz||

    It contains no trans fats.

  • DH||

    PASS!!!!!!!!

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Has it been load tested with 20 million users?

    Healtcare.gov supposedly can handle 17,000 per hour then crashes dead.

  • Sevo||

    "Healtcare.gov supposedly can handle 17,000 per hour then crashes dead."

    Suck that cock, dipshit:
    "“Currently we are able to reach 1,100 users before response time gets too high,” the bulletin states."
    http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....docs-show/
    and
    http://oversight.house.gov/wp-.....pdated.pdf

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Fuck you, you ass carbuncle. Bloomberg outranks Fox Fake News.

    Obamacare Site Can Handle 17,000 People an Hour, CMS Says

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/.....EAcpjQtDMD

  • Ken Shultz||

    How big are healthcare.gov's servers, do you think?

  • Sevo||

    Palin's Buttplug|11.9.13 @ 7:50PM|#
    "Fuck you, you ass carbuncle."

    Go fuck your daddy, you slimy turd. The gov't's OWN data confirms the number.
    Did you get that, shit pile? The minions of your fave cock says you're a liar:

  • Sevo||

  • Ken Shultz||

    Even if it weren't scaled the same? (not sayin' it isn't)...a couple of guys in a dorm somewhere coming that close is pretty hilarious.

    Give 'em a few million dollars to spend on a server room, maybe get some beefier software off the shelf and tweak it some, and I bet they could have it ready to go by Monday.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I mean, seriously, two guys in a dorm room!

    Ah HA HA HA HA HA HA!

  • Sevo||

    Ken Shultz|11.9.13 @ 8:11PM|#
    "I mean, seriously, two guys in a dorm room!"

    Not to mention that CMS has been lying through their teeth for months. And slimy turd wants to question FOX by comparison!

  • CatoTheElder||

    I mean, seriously, two guys in a dorm room!

    Ah HA HA HA HA HA HA!

    Seriously, HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    It's not the first time PB's been fucked in the earhole by the government's own data. You'd think the moron would know how to use google.

  • Pathogen||

    Fuck you, you ass carbuncle. Bloomberg outranks Fox Fake News.

    Obamacare Site Can Handle 17,000 People an Hour, CMS Says

    Consider your mouth the scabbard, and Obama's cock the sword, and a fine fit you are indeed...

  • Greg F||

    Obamacare Site Can Handle 17,000 People an Hour

    Wow ... a whole 17k per hour. Poor butthole doesn't even know how pathetic that is. Amazon has been averaging more than a 100k per hour for the last few months. In April they were up around 175k per hour.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Bloomberg outranks Fox Fake News.

    Outranks? Outranks?! HAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

    You've got to be kidding me. Let me guess, Bloomberg is the full bird bullshit artist news source, while Fox is only a bullshit artist captain?

    Christ, Shriek, sometimes you really do let the Freudian slip reveal what a statist clown you are.

  • Juice||

    They already had this website before Obamacare.

    http://www.ehealthinsurance.com

  • Faceless Commenter||

    My thoughts exactly.

    But wth? healthsherpa lists "catastrophic" plans. Aren't they all illegal now?

  • Brett L||

    Might still be cheaper with the penaltax than any other option.

  • Charlotte Falcon||

    not for people under 30.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Court of Justice of the European Union issues guidelines for assessing when a refugee faces persecution for engaging in homeschooling:

    "The existence of criminal laws ... which specifically target homeschoolers, supports the finding that those persons must be regarded as forming a particular social group [who are entitled to refugee status if they're persecuted in their home country].

    "...the criminalisation of homeschooling per se does not constitute an act of persecution. However, a term of imprisonment...which is actually applied...must be regarded as being a punishment which is disproportionate or discriminatory and thus constitutes an act of persecution."

    http://religionclause.blogspot.....-when.html

    Oops, they were talking about gays, not homeschoolers. So Germany can continue its campaign of repression.

    http://www.hslda.org/docs/media/2013/201310100.asp

  • CatoTheElder||

    The State has a duty to indoctrinate the next generation.

  • El Guapo||

    Does anyone know if there's anything in the law to keep doctors or hospitals from taking advantage of this? Say I have a majorly expensive illness -- an aortic aneurysm, say. Is there anything (other than the dysfunctional website) to stop the hospital from signing me up for Obamacare on their own dime, doing the surgery, then failing to pay the premium? If I read the article correctly, they insurance company would be on the hook for the really expensive care, right?

  • Sevo||

    "Is there anything (other than the dysfunctional website) to stop the hospital from signing me up for Obamacare on their own dime, doing the surgery, then failing to pay the premium?"

    Well, there are laws against fraud, for instance.
    They don't seem to apply to that lying bastard in the WH, but they seem to apply to others.
    And if you're presuming med providers are sleazy enough to do that, why not just blow you off? Cheaper and lower risk.

  • johnl||

    No, the insurance company has to pay for 1 month, the doctors 2, and the individual the rest, whatever that is.

  • Rasilio||

    "Their only repercussion is that they have to wait until the following year’s open enrollment if they want coverage on the exchange."

    So pay for the first 9 months then stop paying, re-enroll with no penalty next year. You've just cut your insurance rates by 25% with no loss of coverage

  • CatoTheElder||

    It's a no-brainer.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Bank of America found guilty of defrauding Fannie Mae by selling them shitty mortgages:

    Bank of America and Mairone were each found liable for defrauding government-controlled mortgage companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac through the sale of shoddy loans purchased from Countrywide in 2007 and 2008.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/.....ector.html

  • Ken Shultz||

    In your own quote, it says those loans were originated by Countrywide. Countrywide was "acquired" by B of A long afterward in what was really a shotgun wedding. The Obama Administration really wouldn't let B of A say no.

  • Sevo||

    Yeah, but slimy turd thinks this says good things about his fave asshole's gov't.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Yeah, I know. Countrywide gamed the system as a business plan. The pushed bad mortgage paper like it was crack on a DC street corner.

  • Sevo||

    Palin's Buttplug|11.9.13 @ 8:11PM|#
    ..."The pushed bad mortgage paper like it was crack on a DC street corner."

    And Freddie and Fanny said 'Oh, goody! We'll meet our quotas!'
    Due diligence? Ha! We're gov't agencies!

  • Ken Shultz||

    Yeah, and then the Obama Administration used our paychecks to reimburse them for their losses.

    They should all be in jail.

  • CatoTheElder||

    The Fannie Mae Foundation held up Countrywide as a exemplary mortgage lender back in 2000. Of course, everybody has forgotten about that.

    http://www.truthandcommonsense.....nts/30-hud oks _countrywide reckleneess.pdf

    Fannie Mae Foundation Case Study - Countrywide
    Outstanding Practices: Companywide fair lending practices ... "We House America" campaign to expand homeownership opportunities.

    And, of course, Fannie Mae has removed the document from their website.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Maybe this link will work.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Countrywide "We House America" Mortgage Products that were praised by Fannie Mae Foundation

    97% Loan-to-Value Mortgage
    Cash reserve requirement = one month's PITI
    Income - 100% of HUD median
    Use of Cash on hand for down payment - none
    Gift funds - allowed for closing costs
    [ACORN] Home buyer course certificate requirement - Yes, required.

  • CatoTheElder||

    And, of course, FM Foundation praised Countrywide of following "the most flexible underwriting criteria permitted under the GSE and FHA guidelines. Because Fannie and Freddie tend to give their best lenders access to the most flexible underwriting criteria, Countrywide benefits from its status as one of the largest originators of mortgage loans and one of the largest participants in the GSE programs. When necessary -- in cases where applicants have no established credit history, for example -- Countrywide uses nontraditional credit, a practice now accepted by the GSEs."

    etc., etc., etc.

    Fannie Mae was praising Countrywide as one of its best lenders, not condemning it for its crappy underwriting practices.

  • ||

    White candidate wins election by implying he was black

    By a small margin, a white anti-gay activist has ousted a 24-year African American incumbent from his position on the Houston Community College System Board of Trustees – and he did it by pretending to be black. Dave Wilson, who until recently was described in the press as an “unsuccessful candidate in several local political races,” decided to take a shot at the HCCS Trustee job, even though he knew he was running in an overwhelmingly black district. So he tried to see if he could subtly convince voters he was black, too.

    In an interview with KHOU reporter Doug Miller, Wilson said he was “shocked” that he won.

    Wilson sent campaign fliers to community members that used stock photos of African Americans with messages like, “Please vote for our friend and neighbor, Dave Wilson.” He even boasted an endorsement from Ron Wilson. Houston voters probably thought he meant former state Rep. Ron Wilson, who helped create the Texas Human Rights Commission, debated Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, and led the fight to make Martin Luther King Jr. Day a recognized holiday in the state, according to the Houston Chronicle. But the Ron Wilson in question was actually his family member with the same name, an Iowa-dwelling cousin who Wilson grew up playing baseball with.

  • ||

    I'm just repeating the MSNBC headline. If the voters were voting based on race and couldn't be bothered to investigate the candidate, fuck them, they got what they deserved.

  • Irish||

    Real headline: Racists Incapable of Doing Research, Get Tricked.

  • Sevo||

    Hey, leave Fauxcahontas' supporters out of this!

  • General Butt Naked||

    In one of those mailers, he made a point to tie his opponent, incumbent Bruce Austin, to Houston’s openly lesbian mayor, Annise Parker, pointing out that they both supported “sodomy,” “marriage between a man and a man,” and “that a man can use a woman’s bathroom.”

    The implication being that black voters are, in general, homophobic.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Or maybe they dont want to promote sodomy and believe that separate bathrooms based on sex are not the new jim crow but rather a sensible and reasonable measure

  • Rhywun||

    "Support" == "promote"?

  • ||

    Act fast, today and today only you can get a full measure of sodomy for half the price! You heard right! HALF THE PRICE, but only if you act now to receive your NEW AND IMPROVED sodomy!

    I do so hate it when they promote sodomy.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Its hard to recognize SSM without in some measure promoting sodomy. Im familiar with lesbian bed death and all that, but there is a link between sodomitical behavior and same sex relationships, isnt there? Believe it or not, im not an expert. But feel free to put a choirboy joke here.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    And, yes, heteros do sodomy as well. Im told.

  • Irish||

    And, yes, heteros do sodomy as well. Im told.

    Yes, I've done it myself in fact. I give it a solid A, but I am known for grade inflation.

  • ||

    Its hard to recognize SSM without in some measure promoting sodomy.

    Ha, if the stories of my married hetero friends are any indication getting the gays to marry should DECREASE the amount of sodomy happening.

    Legions of gays aren't going to spring fully formed from the ground just because SSM becomes normal, so I think you're wrong here.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Perhaps instead of promote I should say affix the good housekeeping seal of approval. Except good housekeeping is a private outfit.

    I know youre not for punishing dissenters on ssm, but others are eager to do exactly that. Making private parties recognize ssm is like me saying everyone has to go to Mass, then saying im not trying to have the govt promote my religion.

  • ||

    Are you just using sodomy and SSM interchangeably here? because you started out with the "promoting sodomy" and now you're talking about punishing SSM dissenters.

  • Ted S.||

    Act fast, today and today only you can get a full measure of sodomy for half the price! You heard right! HALF THE PRICE, but only if you act now to receive your NEW AND IMPROVED sodomy!

    Just pay separate processing and handling.

  • Generic Stranger||

  • ||

    Hush, that's not the narrative MSNBC wants you to focus on.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    He even boasted an endorsement from Ron Wilson. Houston voters probably thought he meant former state Rep. Ron Wilson, who helped create the Texas Human Rights Commission, debated Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, and led the fight to make Martin Luther King Jr. Day a recognized holiday in the state, according to the Houston Chronicle. But the Ron Wilson in question was actually his family member with the same name, an Iowa-dwelling cousin who Wilson grew up playing baseball with.

    Dave Wilson is sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from him.

  • ||

    Obamacare contraception mandate blocked by Federal appeals court

    A requirement of President Barack Obama’s health-care law that group insurance plans cover contraceptives was ordered blocked by a federal appeals court, the first such ban on enforcement of the mandate.
    The 2-1 decision by a U.S. Court of Appeals panel in Chicago increases the probability the U.S. Supreme Court may seek to resolve conflicting lower-court rulings, though no appeals court has made a definitive decision to throw out the law.

    The three-judge panel yesterday reversed lower-court judges in Illinois and Indiana, telling them to stay the contraception coverage requirement contained in the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act while the challenges proceed. The cases were filed separately by two Catholic families and the businesses they run.
    “These cases -- two among many currently pending in courts around the country -- raise important questions about whether business owners and their closely held corporations may assert a religious objection to the contraception mandate and whether forcing them to provide this coverage substantially burdens their religious-exercise rights,” U.S. Circuit Judge Diane Sykes wrote in the majority opinion.

    Oh boy, we'll get to see more 30-something women appear on TV and tell us that this is an assault on their reproductive rights.

  • Pathogen||

    God bless the Bill of arbitrary, and politically charged privileges...

  • DH||

    “This decision is a disappointment,” Louise Melling, deputy legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union, said in an e-mailed statement. The organization said it filed a friend-of-the-court brief in the case. “Your boss shouldn’t be able to discriminate against you because of what he or she believes, plain and simple. People are entitled to their own religious beliefs, but they don’t have the right to impose those views on others.”

    Cause gosh darn't when they forced you to take a job with them you didn't know they were going to jerk you around like this....

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    A historical point - the ACLU wasfoundedto defend conscientios objectors to military service. Now they are opposing conscientious objectors who, instead of refusing to join th wartime military, are refusing to comply with a mandare to supply services they deem wrong and which their employees can buy for themselves. And which said employees would have to pay for snyway in the form of lowered benefits.

  • DH||

    Great factoid of the day. I learn so much here, it's criminal.

  • DH||

    *fact not factoid. Damn phone always likes to overwrite.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    It may be the first appeals court ban on enforving the mandate, but as the full article makes clear, other appeals courts have found that thr challengers have a probability of success on the merits, in other words the regulation is legally very vulnerable to say the least. There are other equitable factors besides the chances of winning on the merits that need to be weighed before giving a pretrial injunction, but the key point for present purposes is that the legal challenge is well founded. And since different federal courts have ruled differently on these points, the Supremes better take the case if they want to justify their phony baloney jobs.

  • JidaKida||

    Sounds like some serious business dude.

    www.Privacy-Road.tk

  • heddadjn||

    Im making over $30h a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life. This is what I do,.... WWW.Max57.COM

  • Warrren||

    $30h?

  • johnl||

    $30/hour/month. That's 4.132 cents / square hour.

  • Will Nonya||

    The best part is that once care runs out they're still guaranteed service at emergency rooms which is what I thought was one of the situations this glorious system was supposed to fix.

  • Irish||

    Saw this poem on twitter. Not sure if it's actually authentically from 1949, but even if it's a hoax it's still pretty hilarious.

    First stanza of the poem "The Welfare State":

    Father must I go to work?
    No my lucky son
    We're living now on easy street
    On Dough from Washington

    I have suspicions on whether this is real since the language seems awfully modern. Still awesome though. For those not Twitter savvy, just click on the picture and it will blow up to a readable size.

  • DK||

  • Sevo||

    "I have suspicions on whether this is real since the language seems awfully modern."

    Can't find a way to search it right now, but FDR was worthy of (and received) serious invective.

  • ||

    What's interesting is that in all the right-wing love for Harry Truman's "toughness" the whole issue of his love for the welfare state is completely missed.

    If HST had had his way, we would have had the whole laundry list of progressive wants.

    If it weren't for those Republicans and their gridlock we'd now be enjoying Trumancare complete with 1940s level healthcare, just like most of England.

  • ||

    Not only that but Truman's administration was still riddled with communists and fellow travelers in spite of his "tough" anti-communist talk complete with loyalty oaths and witch hunts.

  • Sevo||

    BTW, one of the problems with the entire package is the constant 'change orders', since Obo can't yet figure out how much pork he can load into it.
    So 40 days after the disaster goes on line, HHS decides to add "Mental Health" to the required coverages.
    http://www.sfgate.com/default/.....969796.php
    First, I'm pretty sure the idjits 'managing' the program are cluically-challenged regarding exactly what that means (and are unlikely to be interested in finding out; it sounds good, right?), and I'm sure they presume that a change of that magnitude won't affect the prices charged by the insurance companies to provide such coverage.
    'Cause rethuglicans!

  • Faceless Commenter||

    That was the Great Consequential Announcement so weighty and mighty that HHS had to announce the announcement two days in advance. I'm sure it was so dazzling that no one noticed that healthcare.gov still doesn't work.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Adding mental health to coverage is no minor adjustment. Leaving the mandates in the control of the Executive Branch will lead to high volatility in costs.

    What happens when the next administration takes over and decides to add or subtract all sorts of mandatory coverage. It's either the height of stupidity or all by design to collapse the health care market.

  • Rhywun||

    the next administration takes over and decides to add or subtract all sorts of mandatory coverage

    FTFY

  • AlmightyJB||

    I'm sorry but did anyone not know that the dems would not be buying off their constituency? ie the moochers.

  • Sevo||

    AlmightyJB|11.9.13 @ 11:14PM|#
    "I'm sorry but did anyone not know that the dems would not be buying off their constituency? ie the moochers."

    I'm pretty sure that wasn't in doubt; the question is why buy votes at $100/ea when brain-deads like shreek will sell out for a slap and tickle.

  • Pathogen||

    " the question is why buy votes at $100/ea when brain-deads like shreek will sell out for a slap and tickle."

    Because, Shreek's addicted to the cock, and he's going nowhere... a cheap date. It's the unpredictable independents that vex both (D) and (R) alike, and it's a race to the bottom to see who's poisonous ideology is going to hook those (I)s first, and string them out... bribing them, and everyone else, with their own money...

  • Sevo||

    Venezuela has one export worth something, but it's not gonna settle their payment balances:
    http://www.sfgate.com/entertai.....970586.php

  • Warrren||

    Does she do anal?

  • Generic Stranger||

    I hear she's the Pele of Anal.

  • ||

    Good for her, she can pawn the tiara for toilet paper.

  • Warrren||

    Nick is utterly despicable. Utterly.

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc.....gillespie/

  • johnl||

    Great. If you don't believe that communist and USMC certified sniper killed JFK all by himself, then you're not a libertarian.

  • johnl||

    I mean do believe that.

  • Warrren||

    Hmmm? Why are you changing your story? Who got to you?!

  • Generic Stranger||

    I thought he was only certified marksman?

    Anyway, it wasn't that hard of a shot. 80 yards from an elevated position? It was a turkey shoot.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Besides, even if you accept a low odds possibility, that's quite different from impossible. Somewhere in the multiverse, JFK and John Connally both catch bullets.

  • Generic Stranger||

    They both caught bullets in this 'verse. Connally survived his wounds.

  • wadair||

    Didn't they catch the same bullet. A pristine one at that?

  • Irish||

    Read this narcissistic rant on the utter ahistorical meaninglessness of the JFK assassination by Reason’s Nick Gillespie and compare his disingenuous marginalizing ”point of view” to that of those two intrepid, indefatigable leading spokesmen of the libertarian movement, Lew Rockwell and Jacob G. Hornberger. Together they have led an unrelenting crusading effort during this 50th anniversary commemoration year of President John F. Kennedy’s assassination and coup d’état by Lyndon Johnson and the top echelon of the National Security State to remind the American public of the crucial importance of that seminal event. Like libertarian pioneers Murray N. Rothbard and Carl Oglesby before them, they recognize that if the National Security State can murder a sitting president of the United States (and later his brother RFK and MLK) and the complaisant and compliant establishment mainstream media continue their egregious fifty year cover-up of these heinous facts, their power is virtually unlimited and unchecked. This story must remain a central focus for all libertarians in speaking truth to power.

    Wow. That is some weapons grade crazy right there.

    I also like the fact that this guy kisses Lew Rockwell's ass like that on Rockwell's site. Nothing slavish or sniveling about that.

  • Pathogen||

    Yeah, 50 years of leaky administrations, 50 years of press corps that still fawn over JFK, despite all of his... glaring character 'deficiencies', withholding the truth, to protect... nobody. 50 years of piss poor secret keeping from this government in general, and 50 years of the KGB/GRU, keeping that secret as well, out of love and respect for the institution of the American government, and the damage it might cause. That's entirely plausible... how could I be sooo blind, I'm sold. JFK was obviously murdered by some secret cabal of shadow government/ "the National Security State" types.. It's just soooo simple.

  • Killazontherun||

    they recognize that if the National Security State can murder a sitting president of the United States (and later his brother RFK and MLK) and the complaisant and compliant establishment mainstream media continue their egregious fifty year cover-up of these heinous facts, their power is virtually unlimited and unchecked.

    No, that is not power unchecked, that is how power has been traditionally checked throughout history. Obamacare, the Berlin Wall, income taxation, regulation of commerce, rape searches, things that effect people who did not seek power, that is power unchecked. The assassination of politicians and operatives through the skullduggery of their own clique does not fit that category. The more that herd is thinned out the more people have second thoughts about joining the clique and do productive things with their lives instead.

  • hdc77494||

    So has it now become legal for the Federl government to force health care providers to perform their services for free? Is it really constitutional for the government to enslave individual citizens? Seriously.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Commerce clause.

    General welfare.

    Living Constitution, as defined by the Nazgul.

  • sasob||

    Federal government has been enslaving individual citizens ever since it first instituted military conscription back during the Civil War. Just imagine - forcing men to fight and risk their lives so as to end slavery in other states that are no longer part of the union.

  • Madisonian||

    I am confused why the article about deadbeats taking advantage of the turd sandwichOcare has comments about O'Brian and muslim marvel girl.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Libertarians get to go off-topic on the first post.

  • sindeebir||

    My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can't believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do......
    www.Rush64.com

  • ||

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    ►●►●►●►▶ http://www.jobs53.com

  • DGPFL||

    So the law prevents insurers from taking normal steps to enforce their contracts?

    I'm not intimately familiar with the law but it seems as though the insurers would be the ones on the hook. This seems like just another cost risk that would be built into the premiums along with other insurance policy requirement in the ACA.

  • taithit||

    my co-worker's half-sister makes $81 hourly on the computer. She has been fired for 5 months but last month her pay was $20214 just working on the computer for a few hours. hop over to this website.....
    WWW.JOBS84.COM

  • ||

    ▂ ▄ ▅ ▇ LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY ▇ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
    My Boy friend makes $75/hour on the internet. She has been without a job for 6 months but last month her pay was $16453 just working on the internet for a few hours. Straight from the source------------ http://www.jobs53.com

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