Inside Ronald Reagan

A Reason Interview

Manuel Klausner from the July 1975 issue

(Page 4 of 7)

REAGAN: Well, let me tell you where my doubts are there. I am very critical of the income tax–the progressive features and the complications of it–it’s the one instance in your whole fiscal experience in life in which you figure out what you owe and government reserves the right to come back and tell you your figures are wrong. If you’re going to have a tax the people should know what the tax is and the government should be able to tell them without the people having to go to the expense of figuring it out themselves.

On the other hand, I have always felt that taxing income is probably as fair a method of raising revenue for government as any. Let’s take a simple case. Suppose 100 of us were shipwrecked on an island and we knew there was little chance of release and we established a community to get along–to survive there. I n a sense we set up a government. What you’d probably do is ask each individual to dedicate a certain amount of his time to such things as standing guard or hunting and fishing to keep the people alive and providing fresh water and so forth, so you’d probably each one contribute a certain amount of service to the community. You’d basically be on your own except for X amount of time. Well, this in a sense is what you do with your income tax.

REASON: Of course, if you’re talking about starting from scratch–the shipwrecked people on the island– you’re really talking about a voluntary approach, aren’t you–as against taxation?

REAGAN: Well, we’re inclined to think that our government here is a voluntary approach and that we’ve set up a government to perform certain things, such as the national protection, etc.

REASON: Aren’t we deluding ourselves to talk in terms of consent, though? When we talk about taxation, aren’t we really dealing with force and coercion and nothing less than that?

REAGAN: Well, government’s only weapons are force and coercion and that’s why we shouldn’t let it get out of hand. And that’s what the founding fathers had in mind with the Constitution, that you don’t let it get out of hand.

But you say voluntary on the island. Let’s take a single thing. Let’s say that there was some force on the island, whether it’s hostiles or whether it was an animal, that represented a threat and required round he-clock guard duty for the safety of the community. Now I’m sure it would be voluntary but you get together and you say look, we’re all going to have to take turns guarding. Now what do you think would happen in that community if some individual said "Not me; I won’t stand guard." Well, I think the community would expel him and say "Well, we’re not going to guard you." So voluntarism does get into a kind of force and coercion where there is a legitimate need for it.

REASON: You said earlier that government doesn’t exist to protect people from themselves. Let’s take the desert island shipwreck situation. Would you be in favor of any laws against gambling in the shipwrecked island situation?

REAGAN: You’ve named an issue that is one of the most difficult for me to reconcile. I know this gets into the whole area of the sin laws and here again I think you’re in one of the grey areas. There’s one side of me that says I know this is protecting us from ourselves; there’s another side of me, however, that says you can make the case that it does get into an area in which we are protecting us from each other.

I cannot go along with the libertarian philosophy that says that all of the sin laws can be ruled out as simply trying to protect us from ourselves. You car take the case of the father who gambles his money away and thus leaves his family dependent on the re’ of us. You can take surrounding areas–the necessity for protection against dishonest gambling–which requires added government duties and obligations–

REASON: But isn’t it really very selective law enforcement when it comes to nonvictim crime areas?

REAGAN: Well, now, you know the nonvictim crimes. Here again I think you’re in a grey area that requires certainly more study than I’ve given it. Prostitution has been listed as a nonvictim crime. Well, is anyone naive enough to believe that prostitution just depends on willing employees coming in and saying that’s the occupation they want to practice? It doesn’t.

REASON: Well, it partly depends on the options. There are a lot of jobs that people might find distasteful in a free market. I suppose that if you work in a paint shop and you’re breathing paint fumes all day, it might not be a very desirable job either.

REAGAN: Yes. But get into the seamy side. Talk to law enforcement people about the seamy side of how the recruiting is done, including what in an earlier day was called the white slave traffic–and you will find that the recruiting for prostitution is not one of just taking an ad in the paper and saying come be a prostitute and letting someone walk in willingly.

REASON: Yes, but, Governor, we really haven’t lived in a time when prostitution has been decriminalized.

Comments

Pingback| 10.7.09 @ 7:36AM

The American Spectator : AmSpecBlog : Pinkerton Redefines Conservatism links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…I am doing the very best I can." Robert Poole, one of the early editors of Reason magazine, has called Goldwater “20th-century America's first libertarian politician.” And as for Ronald Reagan, he himself declared that, “If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism… The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more…

Pingback| 10.7.09 @ 4:48PM

My Kids Deserve Better | My Kids Deserve Better links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…very best I can.” Robert Poole, one of the early editors of Reason magazine, has called Goldwater “20th-century America’s first libertarian politician.” And as for Ronald Reagan, he himself declared that, “If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism… The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more…

Pingback| 10.10.09 @ 12:54PM

Modlitba s médii, 10.10.2009 « Bolkův blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…aby si Cameronův projev prostudoval sám a aby se případně podíval i na první část knihy Život jednoho Američana od Ronalda Reagana, která mi skutečně mnoho dala. Přidávám také odkaz na zajímavý rozhovor s Ronaldem Reaganem. Média často přináší různé zprávy o kriminalitě, ale také o úspěších v boji proti ní. A tak jsme se mohli dozvědět, že policie dopadla gang zlodějů železničních modelů, britské námořnictvo zadrželo…

|10.25.09 @ 11:01PM|#

I like Reagan, but I wonder sometimes how different and how better the world might be had he read Atlas Shrugged. Oh if only!

|11.2.09 @ 7:11PM|#

I have a feeling he did. Google Reagan and "Red Hen" - he had his own mini-fable version of Atlas Shrugged that he told many times.

Pingback| 11.2.09 @ 8:01AM

Big Government » Blog Archive » The Long, Dark Tea-Time of the GOP’s Soul links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…the party gave a lot more than lip-service to the notion that adults should be free to make their own choices, both for good and ill. I remember a time when Ronald Reagan said the heart and soul of the conservative movement was libertarianism.  The tea parties and summer townhalls have proved the public is ready again for this message. More than that, the public is demanding this message. They are far ahead of the…

Pingback| 1.12.10 @ 3:41PM

When Falls the Coliseum » To my fellow conservatives and libertarians: A third party links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Policies Submissions History Subscribe © To my fellow conservatives and libertarians: A third party is not the answer. Posted on January 12th, 2010 at 3:41 pm by Tyler Andrews Ronald Reagan, in a 1975 interview with Reason Magazine on the state of the Republican party, said that “the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism.” Today, despite the prescience of the Gipper, a rumble is growing…

Pingback| 2.19.10 @ 12:59AM

Eunomia » An Empty Suit For A Bankrupt Movement links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…neo-monarchists.” I know this is an old Republican trope (even Romney’s insults are over thirty years old), but it remains as stupid now as it was thirty-five years ago when Reagan compared liberals to Revolutionary-era Tories. Filed under: politics 4 Responses to “An Empty Suit For A Bankrupt Movement” Grumpy Old Man , on February 18th, 2010 at 1:45 pm Said: Why dazzle them with…

Pingback| 2.22.10 @ 10:23PM

Socially Conservative Libertarianism « The musings of an Australian classical liberal links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…if social conservatism is to flourish and prosper, then it is only by libertarian means that this can be achieved. I take very much to heart the words of Ronald Reagan that “ I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism …The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of…

Pingback| 2.22.10 @ 11:14PM

Freedom Line Blog » Huckabee to Conservative Movement: “Drop Dead” links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…foreign policy. Huckabee, like every Republican candidate for the past three decades, claims to have been baptized in the River Reagan. But Ronaldus Magnus famously said “I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism.” Indeed, I don’t know how one indicts the GOP heresies of the past decade without faulting the party for losing touch with its libertarian roots. Huckabee is a…

Pingback| 2.25.10 @ 8:00PM

Libertarianism and Christianity - Page 6 - Cameldog Mixed Martial Arts Forums links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Hayek. He was also a fierce defender of personal liberties. Here is a GREAT interview of Reagan in 1975 by Reason magazine that showed where he agreed and disagreed with Libertarianism: Inside Ronald Reagan - Reason Magazine __________________   Page 6 of 6 « First < 4 5 6 Bookmarks Digg del.icio.us StumbleUpon Google « Previous Thread | Next Thread » Thread Tools Show Printable Version…

Pingback| 4.1.10 @ 10:26AM

So Many Taxes, So Little Time « Another Man's Opinion links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…and nobody had to make that. There’s a hundred taxes in an egg by the time it gets to market and you know the chicken didn’t put them there!” The entire article is interesting and can be found at: on reason.com. Comments » No comments yet — be the first. Click here to cancel reply. message name email url Notify me of follow-up comments via email. Notify me of new posts via email. search About... I am a…

Pingback| 4.28.10 @ 1:48AM

Carolina Politics Online » B.J. Lawson Answers Questionnaire links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…do you say to those Republican voters who may be afraid of your libertarian beliefs? I remind my Republican colleagues of the words of Ronald Regan who said in a 1975 interview < http://reason.com/archives/1975/07/01/inside-ronald-reagan >, “If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism.” In other words, choosing between “libertarianism” and…

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|2.6.11 @ 2:51PM|#

Remember kids, all right thinking people in the 1970s thought Reagan was stupid. Just a senile old man and a dumb actor. People said as bad or worse things about Reagan than they say today about Sarah Palin. He was absolutely demonized.

You read that interview and you may not agree with everything. But it is remarkable how smart the guy was and how well thoughtout his views were. And moreover how much higher of a level he spoke at than politicians of today. Can you imagine Nancy Pelosi or McCAin or our alledged Willie Coyote super genius in the Whitehouse giving an interview that plain spoken and well thought out? I can't.

|2.6.11 @ 5:39PM|#

I was just thinking along these precise lines while reading this.

While I'm not a huge Reagan fan, there is simply no comparison between him and Sarah Palin. It's laughable to consider her giving an off-the-cuff interview half this intelligent, knowledgeable, and clear.

Yeah, a formidable individual whatever your opinion of his politics or policies.

DDavis|2.7.11 @ 5:42PM|#

That's what occurred to me too.

Seeing Reagan refer to the views of Lenin was an eye opener. Seeing the references to Von Mises and Hayek and Bastiat were less surprising in terms of content, but a little surprising in terms of intellectualism.

I had always considered Reagan smart, but thought that he had just worked out a decent political philosophy on his own over a period of years.

Dickhead|2.7.11 @ 8:27PM|#

I know all are too lazy to question what doesn't agree with us. But what of the Spanish American War? Did you know a powerful politician overruled an army leader (who wanted to just kill local animals for protein as armies had always done) to direct business to hometown Chicago meat companies? So did the free market cause that problem or large government cronyism? I always ask persons who think the government FDA protects us (actually it protects the producers) why would a private company, that has no leverage but the quality of its product, intentionally harm its customers? In a real free market, a company harming its customers no longer has customers. Instead the FDA promotes shoddy quality.

|10.26.11 @ 11:22AM|#

We have a core problem in United States the Withholding /Compliance / Lobbying System as it effectively runs our country. A repeal of the 16th must happen and the Fair Tax Act is a painless way of doing that.
Glenn