The Volokh Conspiracy
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Would Jimmy Kimmel Have Standing To Bring a Jawboning Claim Under Murthy?
Whatever standing rule applies to the red team should apply to the blue team.
Eugene has written a few posts about how the Jimmy Kimmel incident would be analyzed under NRA v. Vullo. I think another relevant precedent to consider is Murthy v. Missouri. In this case, Justice Barrett found that no one had standing to challenge the Biden Administration's "jawboning" of social media companies, despite an overwhelming evidentiary record.
First, here is the test Barrett put forward:
Putting these requirements together, the plaintiffs must show a substantial risk that, in the near future, at least one platform will restrict the speech of at least one plaintiff in response to the actions of at least one Government defendant. On this record, that is a tall order.
I'm not sure that Jimmy Kimmel could meet this test were he to sue FCC Commissioner Brenden Carr. First, unlike with Vullo, there was no actual state action taken against Kimmel. At most, Carr made some statements on a podcast about what might happen in the future. Seems speculative. By contrast, in Vullo, the New York government had taken discrete acts against the NRA
Second, consider the traceability prong. It would be difficult to show that ABC's suspension of Kimmel could be traced to Carr's statements. As I understand the facts, several prominent affiliates made the decision to preempt coverage of Kimmel's show due to his statements about Charlie Kirk. ABC, a business entity, may have decided that airing Kimmel's show would be bad for business, and not worth the headache. Relatedly, Comedy Central took a show that mocked Kirk out of the broadcast rotation. Indeed, in light of the cancellation of Colbert's show, ABC may use this suspension as an excuse to cut the costs of a non-profitable late-night show. Again, more business decisions.
Justice Alito's Murthy dissent criticized Justice Barrett's demanding standard for traceability:
What the Court seems to want are a series of ironclad links—from a particular coercive communication to a particular change in Facebook's rules or practice and then to a particular adverse action against Hines. No such chain was required in the Department of Commerce case, and neither should one be demanded here.
Barrett responded:
By acknowledging the real possibility that Facebook acted independently in suppressing Hines' content, we are not applying a "new and heightened standard," as the dissent claims. . . . Nor is our analysis inconsistent with Department of Commerce v. New York, 588 U. S. 752 (2019).
Here, there is a "real possibility" that ABC "acted independently" in taking Kimmel's show off the air. That would seem to be a valid business interest, in ways that suppressing COVID posts was not. I do not see any "ironclad links."
Third, let's turn to redressability. How can a lawsuit against Brendan Carr put Jimmy Kimmel back on the air? Barrett writes:
Far from holding plaintiffs to a "certainty" standard, ibid., we simply conclude that an injunction against the Government defendants is unlikely to stop the platforms from suppressing the plaintiffs' speech. . . . Facebook might continue to remove Hines' posts under a policy that it adopted at the White House's behest (thus satisfying traceability). But if the White House officials have already abandoned their pressure campaign, enjoining them is unlikely to prompt Facebook to stop enforcing the policy (thus failing redressability).
An injunction would not help Kimmel, therefore, there is no obvious redressability.
I don't see how Kimmel would clear the standing bar in Murthy.
To be clear, I vigorously disagree with Murthy. Whatever good that Justice Barrett did in CASA does not come close to making up for her analysis in Murthy. But whatever standing rule applies to the red team should apply to the blue team.
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Let's hope he tries.
Josh, you understand the difference between prospective relief and retrospective relief, right?
I hope Blackman is at least getting paid for shoveling this much shit.
He's not and its not shit.
Sorry you hate facts.
If some viewers of the show sue for an injunction against the government then, following Murthy, they should indeed be denied standing.
It is almost certain that there were private communications between the Trump administration and ABC that would prove standing.
In Murthy there were private communications conclusively proving that the Biden Administration was leading Facebook around by the dog leash. That wasn't enough for standing.
And that is Blackman's point. Murthy has set such a high standard in this area that Kimmel is unlikely to be able to meet it.
In Murthy there were private communications conclusively proving that the Biden Administration was leading Facebook around by the dog leash.
No there wasn't. That was the whole point of Murthy. Facebook admitted as much.
There was. Read the dissent where they cite the examples. The problem that "Facebook admitted as much" is what is being complained about here: That private actors, even big ones, will be intimidated by government threats such that they will want to go along. It's like an abused wife saying that her husband didn't beat her.
The whole point of Murthy was that the majority wasn't buying it. It said that Facebook wasn't intimidated by it despite the government threats. The policy was its own. Likewise ABC, even if we find pushy emails will not be shown to have been "threatened."
There weren't any threats. The one thing the district court cited that looked like a threat turned out to be a lie by the judge: it was some administration officials ranting that Facebook hadn't fixed technical difficulties that prevented the officials from posting — not administration officials demanding that Facebook censor anyone.
"“You are hiding the ball.” 30 id., at 9366. Flaherty noted that the White House was “gravely concerned that [Facebook] is one of the top drivers of vaccine hesitancy,” and he demanded to know how Facebook was trying to solve the problem. Id., at 9365. In his words, “we want to know that you’re trying, we want to know how we can help, and we want to know that you’re not playing a shell game with us when we ask you what is going on.” Ibid. Andy Slavitt, the White House Senior Advisor for the COVID–19 Response, chimed in with similar complaints. “[R]elative to othe[r]” platforms, he said, “interactions with Facebook are not straightforward” even though the misinformation problems there, in his view, were “worse.” Id., at 9364. According to Slavitt, the White House did not believe that Facebook was “trying to solve the problem,” so he informed Facebook that “[i]nternally we have been considering our options on what to do about it.” Ibid."
I mean, I guess we can disagree with what all of that means, but it sounds like "Nice little website there. It would be a shame if something happened to it."
I don't see any threats in there. Those are all the things you would say if you were trying to convince Facebook to take some action in good faith. I get that you don't assume good faith, but courts can't just assume bad faith. That would reduce to a rule that the government simply couldn't communicate concerns or suggestions to private parties at all. (You seem to agree below... and endorse. Have you thought through the implications of that position? It's untenable.)
The threats in this case are clearer, in large part because we have examples of this administration actually carrying them out against other networks. You can assume bad faith once you have evidence of the actual bad things that happen to uncooperative victims.
Lots of threats in there, sorry you couldn't see it.
Which is the exact same thing Carr has done. So nothing can be done on it, sorry .
There were no such communications. (That is, there were communications between administration officials and Facebook, but none that even hinted at, let alone conclusively proved, that the administration was controlling Facebook's decisions.)
In a truly non-coercive environment, there would not be communications between the administration and Facebook (or ABC). If the administration tried, there would be a simple response from the legal team: Get lost. We will publish what we want.
The fact that there was back and forth shows a coercive environment.
Ah yes, the 'inherent coerciveness of government' argument.
Given that facebook and twitter turned the government down plenty of times, that seems pretty weak.
And of course strictly less of an issue than the open strongarming we see right now by the head of the FCC and the President himself.
There were tons of communications. Look it up bro.
And you base this belief on what exactly?
I basically agree with Josh if you can believe that. I don't think Kimmel has anyone to sue (other than perhaps Disney just for contract stuff).
But the politics are terrible. This is a *much* clearer case of inappropriate government pressure than anything Biden ever did. Trump and Carr (and Vance and Bondi and Miller) aren't even pretending to be fair, Kimmel is a big name, this isn't an isolated incident, Trump and Carr are bragging, and the chain of events looks very causal even if there are alternative explanations available.
Brendan Carr. "This is a very, very serious issue right now for Disney. We can do this the easy way or the hard way."
Biden White House staffer Clarke Humphrey about an Instagram parody of Fauci: "Any way we can get this pulled down? It is not actually one of ours." (Response less than one minute later: "Yep, on it!")
Randal: "This is a *much* clearer case of inappropriate government pressure than anything Biden ever did."
There are other examples of the Biden admin doing things that were clearer and/or more severe than what Carr did, but that one example suffices... unless Randal has his usual partisan double standard about what is "inappropriate".
Are you really that blinded by partisanship? I couldn't have selected better examples myself. One of those is about as close to an explicit threat as you can get, and the other isn't a threat at all.
Here, there is a "real possibility" that ABC "acted independently" in taking Kimmel's show off the air. That would seem to be a valid business interest, in ways that suppressing COVID posts was not. I do not see any "ironclad links."
Laughable, but unsurprising from toady Josh.
Eugene has written a few posts about how the Jimmy Kimmel incident would be analyzed under NRA v. Vullo.
...and what did prof. Volokh conclude about this?
The notion that what applies to the red must apply alike to the blue is fine. But facts questions must get comparably equivalent answers. When a blue president begins a campaign of open media censorship, which publicly targets political enemies by name, then you will have one such equivalence to reckon with legally.
Follow the money.
Which do you really think had a greater impact, the mumblings of a federal bureaucrat, or the screaming of over 15% of the ABC franchisees?
(for the purposes of this exercise, ignore ratings)
For those of you who think that Longtobefree is actually interested in the facts, I will again recount the factual history of what happened:
Speaking of pressuring groups ... just a reminder of exactly how the Kimmel controversy played out.
1. Kimmel is a notable critic of Trump. Trump has previously attacked him and called for him to be fired.
2. Kimmel made the fairly anodyne comment, but somehow it attracted the (organized) rage of the right-wing.
3. Disney met about the right-wing outrage and acknowledged that the comment wasn't a bad one, but was trying to decide how to handle it.
4. In the background, America's largest local TV company, Nexstar, was trying to get approval for a $6 billion merger with a rival (Tegna).
5. This merger is, um, not exactly anti-trust friendly. In fact, it would require the FCC to re-write the ownership rules currently in place.
6. Trump hatchet man Carr, chairman of the FCC, makes a statement attacking Kimmel. Carr specifically states that local stations have a lot of power over ABC, can choose to carry ABC programming, and "It's time for them to step up." Among other threats.
7. Immediately after that, Nexstar says that they will pre-empt Kimmel.
8. ABC then makes the decision to pull the show.
9. Carr and Trump take a victory lap. In addition, while the show has only been pulled temporarily, they both say that Kimmel is cancelled, and Trump further says that he controls the licenses and will look into pulling the licenses of people that are ... mean to him.
the plaintiffs must show a substantial risk that, in the near future, at least one platform will restrict the speech of at least one plaintiff in response to the actions of at least one Government defendant.
Were Jimmy Fallon or Seth Myers to sue for injunctive relief, that would be a fairly easy bar to clear. "That leaves Jimmy and Seth, two total losers, on Fake News NBC. Their ratings are also horrible. Do it NBC!!! DJT"
Anyway, Josh's "analysis" basically boils down to denying "Nice store you got here. Shame if anything happened to it." is an actual threat. Although what we have from Carr is basically "Do as I say or we will pull your licenses." which is much more direct.
I think we can reasonably be both (1) upset at government officials making public statements trying to punish people for their speech, and (2) not believe that there's a valid First Amendment claim against those officials. I really, strongly don't like what was said. I think it's poor behavior by a government official. But I think there were enough other reasons for ABC to have pulled the show and no direct state action to support a suit against the government.
That's the takeaway from Murthy. Unless the government literally waterboards an executive, then there is not enough there to prove that it wasn't a free choice by the private company.
I disagree. I think Murthy was wrongly decided. I think these nudges from the government (and in this case an outright threat) indisputably moved ABC to fire Kimmel (and for Facebook to engage in censorship).
If there were enough "other reasons" for ABC to pull the show, then why didn't they do it earlier? They only do it hours after the FCC chairman is on a podcast threatening their license?