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Trump's Alien Enemies Act Deportees Sent Back to Venezuela in Shameful Hostage Deal [Updated]
After being ilegally deported and imprisoned in El Salvador, they will now be sent back to the oppressive regime they fled in the first place, in exchange for ten Americans detained by the Venezuelan government.

Some 252 Venezuelans illegally deported by the Trump Administration to imprisonment in El Salvador have now been sent back to Venezuela, in exchange for the release of ten Americans detained by the Venezuelan government. Trump had invoked the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 to do the deportations.
This is a bad deal on many levels: It incentivizes further hostage-taking by Venezuela, it returns people who fled oppression back to the very same regime that oppressed them, and it certainly does not stop the administration's illegal and unjust invocation of the Alien Enemies Act.
I've said it before (e.g. - here and here), and I will say it again: hostage exchanges are a terrible idea, because they incentivize more hostage-taking. This deal is likely to incentivize Venezuela's socialist dictatorship to seize more Americans.
In one way, this deal is actually worse than the usual hostage exchange, where a democratic state sends captured terrorists or other operatives back to a terrorist group like Hamas or an authoritarian regime like Russia. Here, the men we are sending back are innocent people who fled an oppressive government, now being forcibly returned to it. Despite the administration's claims they were members of the Tren de Aragua drug gang, there is virtually no evidence this is so, and most have never been charged or convicted of any crime. Some are actually dissidents and regime opponents who face likely persecution upon their return. Even those not specifically targeted by the government will be consigned to what may well be lifelong and oppression and poverty under a brutal regime whose depredations have triggered the biggest refugee crisis in the history of the Western Hemisphere.
There was a time when conservative Republicans would have condemned efforts to return victims of socialism to their oppressors. No longer. But it remains unjust, nonetheless.
I suppose one can argue this is less bad than other hostage exchanges because, unlike, say, released Hamas terrorists or Russian covert operatives, it is highly unlikely the Venezuelans sent back under this deal will go on to harm the US. That is true precisely because the Trump Administration is lying about their supposed gang affiliations! It's a valid point. But not nearly enough to justify this sordid deal, or the illegal deportations leading up to it.
The deal also further reveals what has been clear for some time: the Trump administration lied in court when it claimed the Venezuelans deported to El Salvador were under Salvadoran control, and the US had no way to get them out. In reality, they were detained solely at US behest, and the Salvadorans released them as soon as the US asked. This has been clear for a long time, but is now even more so. Courts should take note, and reject similar administration assertions with respect to any other migrants deported to imprisonment in El Salvador, now or in the future.
The deal also will not put an end to Trump's illegal use of the AEA as a tool for peacetime deportation. Litigation over his further attempts to deport people under the Act is ongoing in multiple federal courts, and several have already ruled against them. For the reasons why these deportations illegal, see the Fifth Circuit amicus brief in W.M.M. v. Trump that I coauthored on behalf of the Brennan Center, the Cato Institute, legal scholar John Dehn, and myself. See also my earlier writings on the AEA here, here, here, and here.
To briefly summarize, the key point is that AEA may be invoked only in the event of a declared war or "invasion" or "predatory incursion" by a foreign nation or government against U.S. territory, and no such thing has happened here. In addition, Trump's AEA deportations to imprisonment in El Salvador are also blatant violations of the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment.
UPDATE: I suppose I should emphasize I am not suggesting these Venezuelans should have been kept in imprisonment in El Salvador. Rather, they should never have been deported in the first place, and once illegally deported and imprisoned, should have been returned to the US. They also deserve compensation for their illegal imprisonment and resulting pain and suffering.
UPDATE #2: In a court filing today, the Trump Administration claims that Venezuelan dictator Nicolas Maduro has agreed to allow the Venezuelan migrants returned to his control under this deal to go back to the US if 1) a court orders it, 2) the US government is willing to "facilitate" their return, and 3) the person in question agrees. We will see if this is actually true or not, and if so whether the admnistration actually does the necessary "facilitation." Given the awful track records of these parties, there is reason to suspect that the administration, the Maduro regime, or both, may be lying again.
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Ilya the Lesser is working hard to earn the name "Gumby" Somin: it's terrible when Trump deports illegals to a third country, and now it's also terrible when he sends them to their home country.
Tren de Aragua animals (Venezuelan nationals) exchanged for Venezuelan political prisoners, including American citizens held as hostages. It takes a copious amount of TDS to complain about this.
Tren de Aragua animals
Bot that keeps whining — in accordance with its programming — that it is correctly identified as a bot, because that's "dehumanizing," has no problem calling people "animals" solely because of their race.
Can't argue the main point, can you? Got to turn to easy insults? Like tasting troll bait, do you?
To show my good faith and in the interests of de-escalation, as soon as a Tren de Aragua animal complains here, I'll issue an apology and clarify that I was only describing the gangbangers, murderers, robbers, and rapists.
Feel free to issue your apology whenever it's convenient for you.
You're undermining your case here. No "bot" would exhibit such rank hypocrisy, surely?
If you were aiming for a witty response, this is not that thing.
I’m still waiting for that apology by the way.
Do you even know what people are making fun of you for?
You actually owe me quite a few apologies but since you appear to lack any integrity, intellectual or otherwise, I expect none.
Just curious, as an aside, I know the leftist rent a mobs get a good daily wage, but is anyone stupid enough to waste money on you clowns? The left is genuinely pretty stupid, and can access funds sometimes so maybe. Some government cutbacks are a good sign though.
Ok, now go back to the trollnado with the rest of the parrot clowns.
Unfortunately, bots can't hold their breath until they turn purple and pass out.
Thanks but we don’t need any more trolls lacking integrity today. We met that quota a while ago. Check back tomorrow.
Your presence validates your remark.
I don't think you're a bot, and I won't apologize for saying so!
Diversity is our strength!
"A Haitian illegal immigrant living in a taxpayer-funded shelter in Massachusetts has confessed to raping and impregnating his 14-year-old daughter."
https://thepostmillennial.com/haitian-illegal-immigrant-convicted-for-raping-impregnating-his-14-year-old-daughter-in-massachusetts
"Surveillance Video Shows Illegal Alien Kidnapping Elderly Woman Before Locking Her in Closet, Repeatedly Sexually Assaulting Her"
https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2025/07/17/honduran-national-accused-of-holding-chinese-immigrant-captive-at-harris-county-mobile-home/
How does a surveillance video indicate someone's immigration status?
When Breitbart isn’t racist enough for you. Gonna break out the pet eating bullshit again?
It's terrible when we violate the Convention Against Torture and other treaty obligations. It's terrible when we don't follow the statute to allow deportees an opportunity to be heard to assert their statutory and due process rights.
It's not terrible when they're given notice of the country they are going to be sent to, have exhausted all of their statutory rights, and the country they're being sent to isn't going to torture them.
We get ride of some "Bad Dudes" and get Hostages released? Sounds good to me
Frank
Problem is, we don't know whether they are bad dudes. We just have to take the administration's word for it that they are. No evidence was ever presented in court that they were; they were never given an opportunity to show that they were not. The Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, concluded that a large number of them came to the US legally and committed no crimes. https://www.cato.org/commentary/trump-administration-likely-sent-scores-legal-immigrants-foreign-prison
Except they were here illegally, so crimes were committed but you (and CATO) are excluding them to make a dishonest point. Kinda like saying I entered a shop legally and committed no crimes there while ignoring me leaving with a garbage bag filled with stolen merchandise because the crime triggers downstream from the entry and walking around.
Nope.
Beyond the Maryland Man, I'm not aware of any court order compelling the administration to return any of these people. That one *might* (or might not) be forthcoming wouldn't seem to preclude El Salvador from striking this deal.
Most bank robbers enter the bank legally.
Relevance, even if true?
If they weren't bad dudes, then what was the administration's motivation for deporting/repatriating them? Was it just to have bargaining chips?
They hate immigrants. What more motivation do they need? They're using any excuse they can think of.
I think it's more the idea of immigrants. As soon as it becomes clear that someone they know is being deported, they're shocked and want it stopped.
As for the Administration's motivation, the people actually doing the rounding up are under clear orders to achieve the targeted "body count", and they simply do as they have been told.
So it's about showing that the government is doing something...about anything?
But what about those who turn out not to be immigrants?
Just to toss out something that I saw mentioned in some of the coverage, this reminds me of the battle over fugitive slaves, including the lack of due process involved for "persons," some of whom were not slaves.
They, too, were treated as nonpersons, even though the law and Constitution say otherwise. There was also a lot of "shame" involved. This includes disrespect for their basic humanity.
And, some people refused to go along, including someone who eventually became the Chief Justice of the United States. In fact, he helped establish that title.
Except we're talking about people who willingly chose to violate our in laws from jump Street and you Marxists want to pretend they're innocent angels and victims. The comparisons to slaves are especially galling given it's Democrats fighting to keep their slaves in both cases trying to steal moral high ground in service of criminals today.
Slaves escapees were also violating our laws. ‘They are no angels’ is not going to do much for distinguishing you from a Southern Democrat defending that peculiar institution.
And you missed the post was talking about spillage to Latino citizens too.
spillage to Latino citizens
Who are getting arrested for interfering, not getting deported, but feel free to conflate the issue if that serves your narrative.
They're getting arrested for looking Latino, whether they're citizens or not.
https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2025/07/17/veteran-and-us-citizen-arrested-by-ice-warns-it-could-happen-to-anyone/
“George Retes, 25, who works as a security guard at Glass House Farms in Camarillo, said he was arriving at work on July 10 when several federal agents surrounded his car and — despite him identifying himself as a U.S. citizen — broke his window, peppered sprayed him and dragged him out.“
Nothing to see here.
lol yeah, illegals illegally occupying America are just like slaves escaping slavery.
lmao you f'n ppl I swear
To use a turn of phrase, fugitive slaves were "illegals illegally occupying America." At least, if we went by positive law.
We're not.
"The Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, concluded that a large number of them came to the US legally and committed no crimes."
Here’s the thing, you lot even object to deporting the most violent criminal gangbangers. And simply parroting the Cato Institute’s conclusion that “a large number of them came to the US legally” does not make it so. But more significantly, it does NOT establish that the “large number” is presently legally entitled to remain in the US. And of course, having committed a crime is not a prerequisite to deporting an illegal.
But my apologies for this comment. I sometimes confuse posters here as mature adults and forget they are incapable of providing a substantive response.
Nice strawman. Though with your protean definition of criminal gangbangers I suppose you can include whomever you feel at the moment.
Flouncing that you're the adult in the room is worth the price of admission, though.
It’s not a strawman you buffoon. This article on which we’re all commenting is complaining about the deportations of violent criminal members of a designated terrorist organization. And to the extent the comment suggested that a criminal violation is a prerequisite to deporting an illegal, i noted that this is patently incorrect.
You are the one seeking to distract down another path of pathetic insults. That’s what I meant when I noted above that you lacked any intellectual integrity, in case that was unclear. Well, unclear to you, not to anyone who has read your comments.
If you weren't a bot, you would see that a lot of people dispute the administration's assertion. Based on their history of lying about the criminality of other noncitizens.
This is why the bot thing has got such legs - you don't read so much as you react to some word or phrase with some stale talking point take from a month or so ago. In this case, a strawman.
So here pretending it's not about due process it's about non-MAGA loving criminals is months old.
And then you, who came in off the break as an angry insult-throwing botlike weirdo now claim offense at an insult based on your specific habits. Meanwhile you insult everyone all the time. Sometimes even fellow MAGA tools because you failed to read.
It's actually a pretty funny show.
Immigration offenses are felonies under federal law by the way. And if you want the deported offenders brought back, I encourage you to lobby for that, republicans need all the help they can get in the next election cycle.
But pretty bold doubling down on stupid and moral integrity with more sick insults. In fact, you may have the top score in the trollnado today. Is there bonus money for that?
Immigration offenses are felonies under federal law
Not generally true, as DMN has pointed out enough times you would know that if you had a brain and not a shitty neural net.
I'm amused by your insulting me for insulting you. Seems a bit of baked in fail right there. But I'm more amused that you accused me of doubling down on moral integrity.
Crazy Dave is your source? Uh huh. That explains a lot. And not sure how to describe the rest of your little outburst. Double down reverse projection? How about we just make it simple and say you're a dishonest clown in need of some counseling? Good luck little communist girl that never smiled.
No, I also know from knowing the INA.
Another clue is the upshot of an immigration offices is usually deportation not prison.
A third clue is that deportation proceedings are handled not in a criminal court but in an immigration court.
You may want to review your choice to be bot offended at insults and endlessly spew them.
I only counter punch little communist girl that never smiles. You want to have a serious exchange, then stop parroting the f'ing contemptible insults. I would frankly prefer it but not really possible to reason with the trollnado. And who knows, there are rent a mobs so some may be making living trolling. By definition there's no reasoning with them.
I gave you 3 responses in rejoinder to your comment.
You gave me none in response. In fact, your comment didn't require reading what your replied to at all.
So here I am criticizing what you actually wrote -
you claim counterpunching, but it contrasts with my actually engaged criticism of your botlike behavior.
You come back with just empty name calling. Looks like laziness or inability to comprehend.
The pattern continues!
Still playing the parrot troll I see. Suit yourself little communist girl that never smiled. Sod off. Conversation over jackass.
"little communist girl that never smiled"
Interesting turn of phrase. Where does it come from?
[Ah, it's a Nadia Comăneci reference, says Google. Still not sure how it fits into Crimea Riva's posts, though...]
Nor does simply parroting the administration's claims that any of them are "violent criminal gangbangers" make it so.
What's the lives of 10 American Citizens worth to Somin?
Not much apparently. What a disgrace.
I gather you support ending the war in Gaza in exchange for the remaining Israeli hostages?
Seeing as Herr Aquilia is an out-and-out neo-Nazi, I don't think he is as sympathetic to the Israelis as you may have assumed.
That is up to Israel. They can flatten the place as far as I am concerned.
I believe that was one of the conditions that was insisted upon in peace negotiations. Hamas dragged their feet and made outrageous counter-offers.
So...some criminal Venezuelans go back to Venezuela, and some American political prisoners come home. I cant see how this is a bad thing, except for the leftists who will now lose at lawfare and look like idiots.
Appellate courts likely wont stand in tbe way now that its clear there is a foreign policy angle.
Maybe Van Hollen can go visit Venezuela and not come back.
Did you try reading the post? Did you try understanding it?
Somin posts are easy to understand and even easier to summarize. This one is [0.4, 0, 0.09, 0.5]+0.01(Great Replacement): 50% theme #4 (orangemanbad), 40% theme #1 (open borders good), 9% theme #3 (foot voting) and 1% the theme that cannot be named or acknowledged. Theme #2 (rational ignorance by voters) must have had the day off.
+1
Hard to believe you made it through law school. I'd ask for a refund. Your teachers did you a great disservice by passing you.
"The Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, concluded that a large number of them came to the US legally and committed no crimes."
"victims of socialism"
What are those exactly? People who got treated by the NHS? I guess you would probably say it's the people who paid some minimal fraction of their taxes to support that. Oh the oppression!
Given it's Venezuela, it's more correct to say victims of Democracy getting what the people voted for and getting it good and hard. Sadly, this is what Somin demands for the US.
"In a letter to Congress outlining the action Monday night, Trump said, "I have determined that it is necessary to block the property of the Government of Venezuela in light of the continued usurpation of power by the illegitimate Nicolas Maduro regime, as well as the regime's human rights abuses, arbitrary arrest and detention of Venezuelan citizens, curtailment of free press, and ongoing attempts to undermine Interim President Juan Guaido of Venezuela and the democratically-elected Venezuelan National Assembly.""
"“The Venezuelan regime, once led by Nicolás Maduro Moros, remains plagued by criminality and corruption,” said Attorney General Barr. “For more than 20 years, Maduro and a number of high-ranking colleagues allegedly conspired with the FARC, causing tons of cocaine to enter and devastate American communities. Today’s announcement is focused on rooting out the extensive corruption within the Venezuelan government – a system constructed and controlled to enrich those at the highest levels of the government. The United States will not allow these corrupt Venezuelan officials to use the U.S. banking system to move their illicit proceeds from South America nor further their criminal schemes.”"
"“Today we announce criminal charges against Nicolás Maduro Moros for running, together with his top lieutenants, a narco-terrorism partnership with the FARC for the past 20 years,” said U.S. Attorney Geoffrey S. Berman. “The scope and magnitude of the drug trafficking alleged was made possible only because Maduro and others corrupted the institutions of Venezuela and provided political and military protection for the rampant narco-terrorism crimes described in our charges. As alleged, Maduro and the other defendants expressly intended to flood the United States with cocaine in order to undermine the health and wellbeing of our nation. Maduro very deliberately deployed cocaine as a weapon. While Maduro and other cartel members held lofty titles in Venezuela’s political and military leadership, the conduct described in the Indictment wasn’t statecraft or service to the Venezuelan people. As alleged, the defendants betrayed the Venezuelan people and corrupted Venezuelan institutions to line their pockets with drug money.”"
"“Over the last decade, corrupt Venezuelan government officials have systematically looted Venezuela of billions of dollars,” said U.S. Attorney Ariana Fajardo Orshan. “Far too often, these corrupt officials and their co-conspirators have used South Florida banks and real estate to conceal and perpetuate their illegal activity. As the recent charges show, Venezuelan corruption and money laundering in South Florida extends to even the highest levels of Venezuela’s judicial system. In the last couple of years, the US Attorney’s Office in South Florida and its federal law enforcement partners have united to bring dozens of criminal charges against high-level regime officials and co-conspirators resulting in seizures of approximately $450 million dollars.”"
"“These indictments expose the devastating systemic corruption at the highest levels of Nicolas Maduro’s regime,” said DEA Acting Administrator Uttam Dhillon. “These officials repeatedly and knowingly betrayed the people of Venezuela, conspiring, for personal gain, with drug traffickers and designated foreign terrorist organizations like the FARC. Today’s actions send a clear message to corrupt officials everywhere that no one is above the law or beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement. The Department of Justice and the Drug Enforcement Administration will continue to protect the American people from ruthless drug traffickers – no matter who they are or where they live.”"
(Same regime, different "troof"...)
Why do some many people believe "socialism" = "public services"?
Is it because they are fucking retards? Is that why the Marxists shitted up our public schools so they could produce retards who would worship them?
VC's unofficial motto: "Come for the racism, stay for the discrimination against disabled people!"
That reads like an appointment answer: "it is because they are fucking retards, but if you describe them accurately, leftists will police your tone rather than engage on the substance".
An affirmative answer. Android's keyboard seems to continuously get worse.
Because the socialists tell us that that is what socialism is.
When government nationalizes entire industries, that's socialism.
Mild disagreement on the idea of hostage exchanges encouraging state-sponsored hostage-taking. I see the logic, but as a matter of statecraft, behavior like that *should* result in lethal covert action against a rogue state. It’s an invitation to play SOF bully-ball that most administrations should jump on. Obviously, different rules when it comes to Russia’s fuckfuck hostage games, but there’s other leverage available there.
The rest of this - using AEA - is completely absurd for all reasons previously stated. In flow the MAGAs for their victory lap, jubilantly watching their Epstein confidant/protégé/fellow traveler abuse authority granted for another purpose. But the logic is as stupid as the CDC issuing an eviction moratorium.
Worse still - a government banning firearms due to health concerns or a similar galaxy-brained pretense and then beginning confiscation before the judiciary rules. For every stupid MAGA action, I expect an equally stupid Democrat reaction once MAGA flames out.
Bots now do "the weave", I see...
Try harder.
In every Somin post the Riva types come like moths to the flame. The content of the piece or any comments doesn’t matter, they’re not here to engage with it. They read from their script; they GPT up some whataboutist crap when called on bullshit; then they bluster and self-destruct when “made.” Sorry - not that. The LP isn’t paying trolls.
You’re certainly free to disagree with an opinion; I’m happy to engage or walk away chastened.
Sounds great! The only problem is, I have no idea what your "opinion" is.
I guess I don't understand why it's the united states problem that these people are fleeing Venezuela?
Why exactly is it wrong to send them back? When they entered without leave in the first place.
I just don't see how the United States can be faulted in this instance at all.
the US adopted the UN Refugee Convention in 1968. the Convention was declared in 1951, in the wake of the Holocaust. many Jews fled Germany and Poland as refugees from the Nazi regime, but many countries refused them entry and deported them as illegal immigrants. the US infamously turned a ship full of Jews around and sent it back to Europe, where many died in the gas chambers.
the world, back then, decided that safe countries should offer shelter to those fleeing pogroms, genocides, purges and wars. the vibes were different then.
(to steelman this, Jews ended up being extremely talented, assimilating well and being aligned with the values of their host countries. Ashkenazi Jews are also pretty white, and racism later shifted towards skin color more exclusively.)
But you leftists don't actually care about the terms you just demand that America take them all regardless. Fuck you and your manipulative BS.
Brilliant retort.
Thing is - Venezuelans pass through multiple safe countries before reaching the US.
Thing is - that's not prohibited by the Convention.
Personally, I would seek to change that aspect of the Convention to prevent obvious "asylum shopping" abuse, but until the Convention is changed, it is the law.
It aint a law.
The US ratified the 1967 Protocol in 1968, which made its obligations toward refugees a law for the United States.
1st safe country - not the United States but all of them.
Kudos to add a substantial argument in an ocean of half-baked angry rants!
False. The AEA is being used to deport people who were here entirely legally.
And?
And therefore the claim that "they entered without leave in the first place" is wrong.
This seems like a big win for the president. They were deported to El Salvador initially because Venezuela refused to take them back. Now not only did they take them back, but we got 10 American hostages in return.
I would assume that this outcome is going to play a favorable role when these cases finally reach SCOTUS and the deference due to the executive.
It's definitely a policy win for Trump in three ways. Maduro apparently wanted to extend Chevron's oil license and Trump denied any extension. Maduro retaliated by refusing deportation flights, so Trump invoked the AEA and removed TdA members to El Salvador anyways. TdA members are now being traded for American hostages that had been there for years.
So not only are Americans coming home, but TdA got booted out. To cap it off, Maduro got nothing except his own cronies back.
Working out a deal that trades illegal immigrants for American hostages? How is this anything but a massive win?
Maybe Somin thinks that TdA foot soldiers are essentially government employees or paramilitaries for the Venezuelan government, although that sounds like a very Trump-administration position to take.
Given their activities wouldn't that add to the invasion side of the narrative? Somin just wants the US to take in the world and pretends there are no consequences.
They're not illegal immigrants.
They certainly are not legal immigrants.
Do you not understand that the entire point of the AEA is to deport people who are here legally? That's why the law was enacted 200+ years ago, and that's why Trump is using it now.
Some here seem to have excised their longer term memory or something and make the same obviously wrong assertions over again a few weeks later.
Maybe something about lack of shame? Or an effect of the Internet? I dunno; seems weird.
I choose particular words to express particular meanings, in this case the meaning I wished to express is:
"They certainly are not legal immigrants."
They might have been parolled, which is not a legal immigrant status, illegal, or, I doubt it, even had their green card revoked.
But none of them are legal immigrants.
The administration is committed to not checking.
It doesn't take an open borders person to realize that's not just an issue for non-legal immigrants, and also that's just bad.
unless you have a cite where they got it wrong Im just going to assume you are making wild accusations "without any evidence".
I thought that was wrong.
Name a single legal immigrant among them.
unless you have a cite where they got it wrong
We linked to citizens getting caught up yesterday. Feel free to check there. Or to look them up yourself - the stories are getting covered.
But it does sound like you're conceding that not checking is indeed bad.
Whatever you cited yesterday is not proof of a general administration policy not to check citizenship status. That idea doesn't pass the smell test, since as it's been debated ad nauseam it's a not insignificant process for the government to obtain a final deportation order. If there were systemic violations of the law, I'd expect we'd already have heard about it from the usual suspects and they would be seeking injunctions.
Again, not saying it's impossible or that abuses are occurring (why I am generally opposed to the administration's approach, because abuses can occur), but you have to come to the table with someone a bit more concrete than Orange Man Bad. This is why pro-immigrant advocates are losing the policy debate: because they oppose and obstruct any/all deportations, and people have had enough. A different kind of boy crying wolf.
Eventually, if the administration is wrongly deporting citizens, the advocates are going to use those people to pummel the administration legally and politically. But maybe first we should stop using the descriptor of a Maryland man wrongly deported.
MaddogEngineer — The issue includes both deportations of citizens, and wrongful deportation of non-citizens legally resident in the U.S. MAGA types, maybe including you, keep trying to deny that second part of the problem is a legitimate concern. Problem is, due process violations are due process violations either way, and denial of due process threatens everyone.
In case people aren't catching on to Kazinski's semantic game, he's using legal terms w/o making it clear he's doing that. "Immigrant" as a technical term in U.S. law refers to someone moving here permanently. So when he says that "they are not legal immigrants," he doesn't mean "they're not here legally." His claim isn't technically false, but it's misleading and irrelevant since the important question is whether their presence is legal, not whether they're immigrants or asylum seekers.
(He does the same shtick with regards to the word "admitted." That has a technical term in U.S. law, but of course it's also a common everyday term. Someone paroled into the country has been admitted in the normal use of that word, but not in the immigration sense, where that word has a specialized meaning.)
Using legal terms on a law blog when arguing with a lawyer sounds terribly unfair.
I will try to do better.
No, you won't.
"A review by the libertarian Cato Institute of those for whom immigration records were available found that at least 50 entered the country legally."
So "at least 50" of the 252 deported men entered the country legally (the Cato Institute claims, without offering evidence). What's the corollary, David? Can you solve the puzzle?
Some combination of visa overstays and orders of removal for other reasons (such as criminal convictions), presumably.
Correct. Just because they may have entered the country legally has no bearing on whether they are still lawfully present. And the other 200+ men? Presumably they were here illegally from the start. Good riddance to them all, and welcome home to our fellow citizens.
The maths would suggest that the true proportion is "at least" 50 out of the number "for whom immigration records were available", which is not necessarily 252 (and impliedly, is not).
Sure: the administration is hiding who they are, so there's no way for Cato to determine for all of them.
It incentivizes further hostage-taking by Venezuela
What?! It's as if Somin literally has no idea what is happening. This may be his most clueless post yet.
These were all Venezuelans in the U.S. illegally. The only reason they were deported to El Salvador initially, and not Venezuela, is because Venezuela refused to accept them. Venezuela could have had them for nothing months ago. There was no "exchange" at all. We got rid of 250 criminals, and, as a bonus, ten American political prisoners are coming home.
The vast majority of people, that is those who, unlike Somin, are in favor of removing alien criminals from the country, will view this as a triumph.
They were not. But that's the kind of accuracy one has come to expect from FD Wolf.
You are employing literally the only type of response I have ever seen you make. Shouting "You're wrong!", accompanied with zero support for your assertion. Did you pick that up in lawyer school?
You have made an assertion without support.
You have gotten pushback. Engaging in about as much time and thought as you did in making your assertion.
So support the assertion. That'll show DMN for posting without checking!
Though Joe below seems to have kinda provided support for DMN's counterassertion so...good luck.
Ah, the "hostage-taking by Venezuela" part refers to the "American political prisoners" held by Venezuela, not the Venezuelans deported from the US.
Care to try again?
Correct, because the only point of taking A hostage is someone cares.
Venezuela could have had them back if the just accepted them in the first place, they certainly didn't care.
The Trump Administration illegally uses the Alien Enemies Act to deport people without due process and it is assumed that everyone deported is an "illegal."
"U.S. officials have said 137 of the Venezuelan men were treated as "enemy aliens" and removed from the country under the 18th-century law. The other 101 were deported under regular immigration procedures, the officials have said." [CBS]
https://www.factcheck.org/2025/03/qa-on-the-alien-enemies-act-and-tren-de-aragua-in-the-u-s/
The AEI was used during WWII & is not about "illegal aliens" as such. It involves aliens of all types who become "enemy aliens."
They could be long-term legal residents & because there is a change in the status between the two countries, they are now enemy aliens.
The facts don't warrant the label in the current context.
A NYT article on the swap notes:
Secretary of State Marco Rubio said in a statement that the U.S. citizens and permanent residents had been arrested and jailed in Venezuela “without proper due process” and called for the “restoration of democracy in Venezuela.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/18/world/americas/venezuela-us-prisoner-swap-migrants-el-salvador.html
Again, shades of Alanis Morissette.
Perhaps this Rubio gem was related to the State Department's recent policy change (which, er, preceded it by one day):
"The State Department will sharply restrict its commentary on the legitimacy of foreign elections to “rare” occasions, according to a new directive from Secretary of State Marco Rubio that continues the Trump administration’s turn away from promoting democracy abroad.
In an official cable to diplomatic and consular posts on Thursday, Mr. Rubio said that public comments on foreign elections “should be brief, focused on congratulating the winning candidate and, when appropriate, noting shared foreign policy interests.”
Such messages, the agency memo added, “should avoid opining on the fairness or integrity of an electoral process, its legitimacy, or the democratic values of the country in question.” The directive applied to the department’s domestic offices and foreign posts, Mr. Rubio said."
You've all heard "the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing", but it usually doesn't apply to the same person within the span of 24-48 hours...
Yes. I noted that separately in the Friday open thread.
I guess this was one of those "rare" occasions.
There was a time when conservative Republicans would have condemned efforts to return victims of socialism to their oppressors.
I remember when they defended keeping in the US a boy whose mother died bringing him to freedom in the US, and the Democrats were determined to send him back to Cuba.
I think the Biden administration just distorted everything. Obama is still the record holder for deportations.
I remember the Venezuelan public voting for this as opposed to the Castro regime being imposed on the people. Why are the consequences of their Democracy our fucking problem to solve or burden to bear?
apparently, they didn't vote for this the second time. Seems the current president just ignored the election results, and just had the Justices he appointed name him the winner. Still, I don't think it's the United States problem.
The poor gang members will have to back to their gangs in Venezuela. How sad.
Also, those people voted for Venezuela to be like it it. They chose their policies - who are we to stand in the way of democracy?
Which government in Venezuela are you referring to?
Also, how can they be victims of socialism when socialism is just the things we do together?
Ten American prisoners rescued from Venezuela. That's pretty damn cool!
Among the Venezuelan men now set to be returned to their home country are those who fled to escape the Maduro regime.
Andry Hernandez Romero, a gay makeup artist, fled Venezuela and to seek asylum in the U.S. after facing persecution due to both his sexuality and his political views.
Like others sent to CECOT, Hernandez Romero does not have a criminal record and also came to the U.S. legally after making an appointment at a port of entry to claim asylum.
A review by the libertarian Cato Institute of those for whom immigration records were available found that at least 50 entered the country legally.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5409285-trump-administration-venezuela-prisoner-swap/
"Despite the administration's claims [the deported men] were members of the Tren de Aragua drug gang, there is virtually no evidence this is so, and most have never been charged or convicted of any crime."
It is important to note that Ilya would still be resolutely opposed to deporting them even if there was irrefutable evidence that they were TdA members, so this objection is just a lie.
The "objection" is that the Administration made a very dubious claim, which for the Trump Administration (and others) is a significant factor in justifying the deportation.
That is not "just a lie" even if Ilya (which I don't know) would be resolutely against deporting them even if that was true.
The lie is his purported concern with the administration's claims. He doesn't care. He is an out-and-out open borders extremist.
That's right, Somin wants open borders. All the arguments about socialist countries are meaningless. He wants to import everyone.
Feel free to stow the sarcasm and find a single example of him supporting any restriction on immigration whatsoever. Any one will do.
Sure, see Somin's book Free to Move, pages 121-150, in which he discusses matters where governments should be free to restrict immigration under his ideology.
In turn, how about you provide evidence that Somin is lying about a majority of deportees having no criminal history. Charges and convictions would be in the public record. I don't see such, so I'm forced to conclude you're the liar here. And a tool.
The specific thing you cite is an allegation that the Trump Administration made a claim for which there is little or no evidence.
Ilya's alleged support of not deporting TdA members doesn't make that allegation "just a lie." He made an allegation. That allegation should be addressed on its own. It is not just a lie.
You argue Ilya "doesn't care" about Trump making bogus claims because of Ilya's overall policy beliefs. We can play that game all day on this blog when critics flag specific things.
Ilya has criticized multiple presidential administrations on various topics. He had a record of being skeptical of administrations allegedly making things up. It is not "just a lie" even on that level.
Kleppe retreats to empty ad hominem when pushed to identify a lie.
That's a tell that he can't defend his original accusation.
Not uncommon in Somin threads.
What do you want me to defend? Ilya Somin consistently opposes any attempt to restrict immigration. If you think I am wrong feel free to provide a single example of an immigration restriction he supports -- no matter how anodyne.
Read the post and deal with what it says. Find sources to challenge his facts. Find counterarguments to his positions.
'Somin is in bad faith whine whine whine' is not an actual response to what he is saying.
The entire point of a bad faith argument is you don't have to respond to it. Ilya is just concern-trolling in these posts. Why am I required to take his opinions more seriously than he does?
Your assertion of bad faith doesn't render arguments null and void.
If the arguments are so easily punctured, then puncture them.
You're insistent on not doing that, which leads one to wonder.
The 80-10 issues aren't enough for Ilya, now he's got a 90-10 issue to oppose Trump on.
Libertarians' love of losing deserves to be studied.
Professor Somin correctly observes:
The judicial branch has historically afforded a presumption of regularity to the actions and representations of the executive branch, see, e.g., United States v. Chemical Foundation, Inc., 272 U.S. 1, 14-15 (1926) ("The presumption of regularity supports the official acts of public officers, and, in the absence of clear evidence to the contrary, courts presume that they have properly discharged their official duties"), specifically including DOJ attorneys. United States v. Armstrong, 517 U.S. 456, 464 (1996).
The pervasive lawlessness of the current Trump administration has the potential to significantly erode that presumption.
There never should've been any such presumption for any administration, though. But, yeah, presumptions are rebuttable, and Trump has rebutted it.
Presumption of regularity is a legal fiction and always has been. Lawyers will dispute this.
"Pervasive lawlessness" is assuming your own conclusions, a subjective standard, a political narrative from people vehemently opposed to Trump's agenda. Just because sympathetic district court judges have issued TROs and preliminary injunctions doesn't make any of that lawless. Not any more lawless than blanket student loan debt forgiveness, twice.
The Trump admin lied in court. Do you claim that's ipse dixit? Because it seems pretty well established in the record. Which makes this not subjective opinion.
Reflexively accusing those criticizing Trump of being motivated solely by animus is both lazy and ignores the actual arguments and factual support being brough to the table.
What does lying on court have to do with pervasive lawlessness? Lied about what, exactly? I. Which courts? How many times? I'm not denying their has been lying. I'm objecting to "pervasive". Because the root objection is opposition to the aggressive policy the administration is trying to pursue. Which critics keep assuming is obviously unlawful. I do agree that the AEA invocation is unjustified, but just like student loan forgiveness, they're going to keep trying until they lose definitively.
This accusation is like the Russia collusion narrative, pretending that Trump himself is micromanaging everything and explicitly ordering the malfeasance. After DACA, and other creative non-enforcement of immigration law, I'm not really interested in laments about the rule of law from people who shrugged about the corrosion of the rule of law.
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown-grandfather-ice-guatemala/
Allentown grandfather who was granted political asylum in 1987 after surviving torture at the hands of Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet’s regime was disappeared by ICE. The family was then told he died. Now they learned that he's actually alive, was deported, and is in a hospital in Guatemala.
This and the concentration camps are what you lot are apologizing for.
Something seems off about this. Not saying that this person was not deported. Only that the factual circumstances seem incomplete, which is not surprising if the reporters are only hearing the family's version of events. Since it aligns nicely with the anti-Trumpers belief that the administration is willy nilly deporting every alien it encounters, of course it is being embraced uncritically.
I just find it hard to believe (though not impossible), given all the other adjudication about final deportation orders being challenged in district courts, that ICE would summarily deport a supposed green card holder who lacked documentation. The proverbial "undocumented immigrant". That crosses all sorts of due process red lines. I'm actually wondering if the "lost" card was never lost, just not renewed. And this unfortunate man ignored prior notices and ended up being deportable. Also wondering why someone here since 1987 had not by now become a citizen.
Of course, it could also be governmental incompetence or outright dishonesty.
At any rate, still not concentration camps. That's just more of the anti-Trump Resistance™ rhetoric that feels good.
Nothing about it feels off. As I commented on Twitter, the left talks about "privilege" way too much — way way too much — but this is a perfect example of when it's appropriate. Privileged people simply cannot imagine that law enforcement is routinely petty, stupid, arbitrary, and cruel, so when they hear a story like that, they assume that there must be something else to explain it.¹ (There of course could be, but there need not be.) And so they invent fanciful explanations that don't actually make sense. For the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't matter whether the card was renewed or not; although it's obligatory to do so, LPR status does not expire regardless. It's not like a driver's license, where one's right to drive on public roads expires if one's license does. The green card document is just evidence of one's status; it does not constitute one's status. One cannot be (lawfully) deported because one didn't renew.
¹ Years ago, Popehat pointed out the other aspect of that privilege: on the occasions when it does happen to them, they assume that there must be a conspiracy of rogue elements out to get them, because it can't be that this is just the way our criminal justice system behaves towards its victims.
the left talks about "privilege" way too much — way way too much
OTOH, regularly, privileged people simply find it hard to understand how they are privileged. It's something they, we (since many here are privileged, including myself in some ways), find it hard to contemplate. It just seems natural to them. Often, they take their privileges in stride as not even privileges.
So, I don't know about "way way too much" on some level. I think that quite often talk about privilege is quite apt.
So the guy was here 38 years and never became a citizen? Then it was time for him to go back to the country where he is actually a citizen.
Augusto Pinochet left office 35 years ago. He died 19 years ago. There's no danger of Pinchot coming after this guy anymore.
He's a lawful permanent resident. Do you know what "permanent" means? There isn't a "time for him to go back." He's not here on TPS or the like.
Each Ilya article invokes a deep satisfaction that this blind ideologue is not a judge.
Not only is he not a judge, but he never will be!
Unsigned 9th Circuit order grants Trump administration's stay of judge's ruling setting up 'framework' to determine which refugees in process can come in despite Trump's suspension of program.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26016945-pacitoadminstay071925/