The Volokh Conspiracy
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Nationwide Injunctions and the Rule of Law
Justice Kagan hits the nail on the head: "nationwide injunctions" are an indispensable tool by which courts rein in unlawful executive action
At oral argument Thursday in Trump v. Casa, Inc., the "nationwide injunction" case, Justice Kagan put her finger on the question that is, in my view, decisive: If district courts do not have the ability to issue "nationwide injunctions"* against executive misbehavior, i.e., if they are limited to injunctions applicable only to the specific party/ies challenging the government's actions in the cases before them, the courts cannot serve as an effective check on unlawful executive action.
*These injunctions might better be labelled "non-party injunctions" rather than "nationwide injunctions." Listening to the oral argument, it appears that what gives some Justices heartburn with respect to these injunctions is not that they operate "nationwide" (i.e., outside of the geographic district within with the court is authorized to act) but that they purport to affect the rights of non-parties.
Justice Kagan asked the Solicitor General to assume, just for argument's sake, that the Birthright Executive Order is unlawful, on the merits** - that it is an unconstitutional exercise of executive power contravening both the 14th Amendment and a number of Supreme Court precedents (as most of the courts that have looked at it have already concluded).
**This question about the merits - whether the Birthright E.O. is or is not a constitutional exercise of the President's power - was not before the Court at this point, because the government, which was the losing party in the court below, sought SCOTUS review only on the question of whether the court's injunction was valid, not on the underlying merits of the plaintiffs' claim. That turns out to be a rather interesting omission - see below.
If you are uncomfortable making this assumption, because you are convinced that that the Birthright E.O. is not an unconstitutional exercise of presidential power, feel free to craft your own hypothetical here; think of something that a President could do that would be, in your view, clearly and incontrovertibly unlawful: An order requiring, say, the State Department to fire all Jews and African-Americans in its workforce; an order placing the words "Christ is our Savior" on one-dollar bills; an order declaring that ICE can execute warrantless searches whenever it deems them to be in the public interest. Just suppose.***
***Justice Sotomayor used this hypothetical: "A new president orders that because there's so much gun violence going on in the country and he says, 'I have the right to take away the guns from everyone,' and he sends out the military to seize everyone's guns."
Now imagine that Able and Baker and Charlie have been injured by this unconstitutional policy; e.g., each of their citizenships has been revoked, even though they were all born in the United States. They bring suit in federal district court in, say, Houston, arguing that the E.O. is unconstitutional. They win. The court orders the government to reinstate their citizenships.
Nothing remotely controversial or out-of-the-ordinary in the above, and nobody is suggesting otherwise. The Solicitor General acknowledged that it is appropriate for the district court to enjoin the government from imposing its new citizenship policy on Able, Baker, and Charlie, and he conceded that the government would comply with the court's order directing it to reinstate the plaintiffs' citizenships in that case.
But under the Administration's view of things, that is as far as the district court can go:
[From the Administration's Application for a Stay submitted to SCOTUS in this case, available here]
Article III authorizes federal courts to exercise only "judicial Power," which extends only to "Cases" and "Controversies." Under that power, courts can adjudicate "claims of infringement of individual rights," whether "by [the] unlawful action of private persons or by the exertion of unauthorized administrative power." Courts that sustain such claims may grant the challenger appropriate relief—for instance, an injunction preventing the enforcement of a challenged law or policy against that individual—but cannot grant relief to strangers to the litigation. Article III does not empower federal courts to "exercise general legal oversight of the Legislative and Executive Branches." To reach beyond the litigants and to enjoin the Executive Branch's actions toward third parties "would be not to decide a judicial controversy, but to assume a position of authority over the governmental acts of another and co-equal department, an authority which plainly [courts] do not possess."
Only the Supreme Court, the Administration asserts, can declare the policy unconstitutional as to persons who are not party to any lawsuit, and only the Supreme Court can enjoin the government from revoking the citizenship of persons similarly-situated to Able, Baker, and Charlie but located in other judicial districts.
It's not a totally unreasonable position: only the Supreme Court has truly nationwide jurisdiction, and it alone should be permitted to decide "the law of the land," not some district court in Texas or Massachusetts or Colorado.
But Justice Kagan identified the fatal flaw in the argument:
If [the government] wins this challenge and we say that there is no nationwide injunction and it all has to be through individual cases, then I can't see how an individual who is not being treated equivalently to the individual who brought the case would have any ability to bring the substantive question to us…. In a case like this, the government has no incentive to bring this case to the Supreme Court because it's not really losing anything. It's losing a lot of individual cases, which still allow it to enforce its EO against the vast majority of people to whom it applies. . . . I'm suggesting that in a case in which the government is losing constantly, there's nobody else who's going to appeal; they're all winning! It's up to you, [the government], to decide whether to take this case to us. If I were in your shoes, there is no way I'd approach the Supreme Court with this case.
Which is exactly what happened here! As I noted above, the government didn't ask the Court to review the adverse determination that the E.O. was "blatantly unconstitutional." Why not, you ask? Because it knows full well that it is almost certain to lose when that question comes to the Court, at which point the government would have to openly defy "the law of the land" if it wanted the State Department and DHS and ICE and the other executive agencies to operate under its new definition of citizenship. Instead, if it could just get rid of these pesky "non-party injunctions," it would be perfectly content to just go on losing, one case and one plaintiff at a time, forgoing its right to appeal all the adverse decisions, while work to implement the E.O. with respect to the millions of people who are not parties to the various lawsuits goes on apace.
And paradoxically enough, the more egregious the executive's conduct - the more obviously and incontrovertibly unconstitutional it is - the more likely it is that it will lose every case, which will mean that the question of its constitutionality never gets to the Supreme Court for a conclusive ruling.
Clever, no? Another seam, or fault-line, in the web of constitutional protections and the separation of powers has been exposed.
I regard this as a fatal objection to a rule prohibiting non-party injunctions in all cases because it fails what we might call the Hitler Test: if we are ever so unfortunate as to have a president who wanted to do Hitler-ian things, would this rule help to prevent that from happening or not? It's not a terribly high bar, but a rule prohibiting non-party injunctions in all cases doesn't make it over. I think that a majority of the Court will at least be a little troubled by a rule that incorporates this perverse legal incentive to act in an outrageously unconstitutional manner. Though I'm loathe to predict the direction the Court might go on this issue, it doesn't appear to me that there is majority support for a blanket prohibition on non-party injunctions, and I think it more likely that the Court will find some intermediate position that will spell out the conditions under which non-party injunctions are permissible and within the discretion of the district courts. We'll see if I'm right about that.
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This article demonstrates the huge problem with the judiciary. Democracy is not even considered in this article. Nationwide injunctions run afoul of Democracy, and the legal profession and the judiciary could care less. This is exactly why there is a reckoning coming for the out of control judicial branch of government.
Is it true that they almost didn't give the Federal Courts equity powers after having seen how British courts had abused them?
No.
"Is it true that they almost didn't give the Federal Courts equity powers after having seen how British courts had abused them?"
The answer is no, but if it were yes, would that even matter?
As the maxim goes, almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
The Constitution is a check on the majority trampling on the rights of the majority. Basic civics there.
You need to reword your contradictory statement. You have majority twice where the second time is seems like you meant minority.
I have seen this sentiment several times here over the last few days - that the courts are thwarting the will of the majority, standing in the way of democracy, or whatever.
This is wrong in two different ways.
The first way is that the constitution was democratically adopted. A majority decided that we wanted things to work certain ways, and having the courts enforce the Bill of Rights was one of those ways; the courts are enforcing the will of the majority as written in the constitution. If feelings change about that, then it's time to use the democratically adopted procedure to change that, namely amendment.
That's the long view. In the near term view, thwarting the immediate will of a majority wishing to violate the rights of a minority is exactly what the courts are supposed to do. For one example, when a majority of people in D.C. didn't want Dick Heller to have a pistol, the court stepped in to protect his constitutionally guaranteed right against the will of the majority. The majority may want to have Jim Crow, or ban AR's, or hang a witch without a trial. The role of the courts is precisely to thwart the will of the majority in those cases unless/until there is enough of a majority to amend the rules.
Nobody seriously questions judicial review. The complaint about "thwarting the will of the majority" comes into play when courts have wide, far reaching, and unsupported views of what is contained in the Bill of Rights such that one believes that no majority ever enshrined such a thing in the BOR to begin with.
That goes double for having a single district judge make such a determination for the whole country. Judicial review is counter majoritarian in its best days and authoritarian and tyrannical in its worst.
I have seen multiple people critique the principle of judicial review.
The opening comment claims "Democracy" was not addressed.
The OP very well was concerned about it. He argued that national injunctions were necessary for the rule of law, a basic concept in our democracy. So, what is really involved here?
Your reply seems to suggest the real issue is people thinking the courts made a really bad decision. "Thwarting the will of the majority" is a somewhat strange way to phrase that. The majority can be "thwarted" as long as the courts do it "right."
The OP also notes the Trump Administration did not want SCOTUS to address the merits. Where does the fault lie there?
A single district court judge does not have the final word, especially all by their lonesome.
"The first way is that the constitution was democratically adopted. A majority decided that we wanted things to work certain ways, and having the courts enforce the Bill of Rights was one of those ways; the courts are enforcing the will of the majority as written in the constitution."
WRONG!!!!
Judicial review was/is (a) not written in the Constitution, and (b) the Constitution would never have been ratified if it had been.
Good or bad, the fact is that it was created by John Marshall -- it was he who was negligent in not handing out the commission in time and it was Marshall who fabricated Judaical Review as a concept.
Like the word "abortion", the words "judicial review" do not appear in the Constitution.
Judicial review is written into the constitution. It's right there in the first sentence of Article III: "The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish."
False. The thing you learned in 7th grade social studies is wrong. Judicial review long predates Marbury.
That's question begging. Whether the "judicial Power" extends to the power to decide the constitutionality of an act of Congress or the executive is the very question that people struggling over judicial review are trying to answer.
Marbury is good law. That's not question begging. Challenging this 200+ year old constantly used precedent would require defying the judiciary wholesale.
It's also load-bearing to our republic.
So somebody other than the Supreme Court (and the various inferior courts) gets to do judicial review, despite not having the judicial Power? This sounds very much like an argument that will be abandoned when the president and Congress are not to your liking.
No, the Constitution was not democratically adopted. A democrat vote is a direct vote by the people. The Constitution was confirmed by representatives in state conventions. You could accurately say the Constitution was confirmed by a republican process, but certainly not a democratic one. The Constitution as confirmed did not contain a Bill of Rights no was one implicitly promised before the Virginia ratification convention.
The idea that the judiciary is infallible or more trustworthy than any other branch of government defies logic. Human beings are corrupt and any branch of government relying on them is corrupt.
The selection of the judiciary is shielded from democratic action at the federal level and is by definition in opposition to democracy.
What is "Democracy"? Is the capital "D" notable?
I say that somewhat non-facetiously.
The people at large support judicial review. They are quite accepting of judges blocking unconstitutional actions in a variety of ways. This is far from necessary. Other countries have judicial review without going as far as we do. Or don't have it.
Is it a threat to "Democracy" for a federal judge to declare a [fill in your favorite example] blatantly unconstitutional law? I don't think so & I don't even have to use general constitutional principles.
The people's will is not violated by it. Maybe, again, I'm serious here, the concern is the scope of the tool at hand. The OP provides an argument why it is necessary.
Still, since "the judiciary" is criticized broadly, it seems there is a bigger concern at issue.
The issue is that the cultists believe that because Trump won the election, he can do what he likes, the Constitution be damned, (They probably also believe that Trump had his fingers crossed when he was sworn in and so the oath isn't binding on him...)
Not in the slightest. The courts are interpreting and enforcing the laws that were democratically passed.
First, let’s stop pretending that the autocratic whims of one man are “democracy.” Second, even to the extent it is, the constitution is supposed to be a check on democracy.
Sounds like more election denial there. What with that, and the misbehavior in the courts, and threats from the former director of the FBI, one might start to get a little concerned. But I guess we have to destroy democracy to save it. Or something.
I do deny that Trump was elected king.
Yes commie, we should quit pretending the autocratic whims of one judge are Democracy. Or are you talking about the man who won a vote of the people to enact the very thing these judicial tyrants are obstructing.
David, the United States Senate is supposed to be a check on democracy, not rogue Federal judges...
They really should have convicted Sameul Chase...
There has always been a presumption of legality with respect to government officials even in standing analysis. But now I guess, in the courts' efforts to expand their jurisdiction, all that is out the window. Because Trump.
2025 is exposing some real problems with the judicial branch. If only we had a responsible Congress to address this. Republicans are cowardly, apart from the President, and Democrats are content to condone anything, as long as they can benefit politically.
There should never have been a presumption of legality. Government isn’t special. But if there is such a presumption, it has been overcome. Presumptions can be rebutted. And the Trump administration has proved itself to be the most dishonest, lawless administration in American history, so no reasonable person would give it the benefit of the doubt any longer.
MOST dishonest?
May I suggest you read up on Lyndon Johnson?
Or even Jack Kennedy, who was running "a damned 'murder incorporated' in the Caribbean." It was LBJ that said that -- and there is actually a book about it. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42505535-murder-inc
Read the Pentagon Papers sometime -- regardless of which side of the isle you are on, you gotta admit that Vietnam was a clusterfuck.
The OP loves nationwide injunctions now because it benefits his side in this instance. Pretty sure in an alternate timeline when any random conservative judge could stop a leftwing President's agenda or in the future when the tables are turned he'll come up with some twisted logic about how now they have to be reined in.
Hypothetical hypocricy is so easy to prove.
Nationwide injunctions have needed reining in since around the turn of the century. But the purpose of reins is to bring horsepower under control, not to ban horses.
Thus, I agree with the OP's conclusion:
...it doesn't appear to me that there is majority support for a blanket prohibition on non-party injunctions, and I think it more likely that the Court will find some intermediate position that will spell out the conditions under which non-party injunctions are permissible and within the discretion of the district courts. .
These threads really identify who needs to be muted.
Can you elaborate why democracy matters in this context? The citizens can vote in to power people who have the ability to try to amend the constitution. They can implore their state legislatures to vote to change the constitution. What they can't do is vote for people who promise [explicitly or implicitly] to not follow the constitution and then complain when the court's stand up for the constitution. That is not a failure of democracy. It's a vindication of the rule of law. If the complainers care about democracy; they would welcome an opportunity to fix what they see is a mistake [in the present constitution] because a constitutional amendment would need major public support to pass. That would be democracy working as intended. Executive orders claiming to re-interpret the constitution is most certainly the wrong way to do it in our system.
"This article demonstrates the huge problem with the judiciary. Democracy is not even considered in this article. Nationwide injunctions run afoul of Democracy, and the legal profession and the judiciary could care less. This is exactly why there is a reckoning coming for the out of control judicial branch of government."
The meaning of a constitutional amendment depends on no plebiscite.
So when did Justice Kagan change her view?
Who says that she did change her view?
OK. Wessmann v. Boston School Committee, 996 F. Supp. 120 (D. Mass. 1998)
Why wasn't this a national injunction? Why did it only apply to Massachusetts.
People may forget this case as it was overrule by first Grutter v. Bollinger and then Fisher, but there's really no difference between Wessmann and these national injunction cases.
Other than which side the injunction would benefit...
Because the government involved was Massachusetts, not the federal government?
Can you say "non party injunction"?i
Also, the Boston School Department receives considerable Federal money and hence....
You've been misled by the choice of terminology. The so-called "non-party injunctions" only apply to an actual party to the case. (In this case, the federal government.) They do not apply to random other people.
In your case, the only parties to the case were the Boston school board (and some affiliated individuals); those were the only ones to whom the injunctions could be issued.
Um, duh? Because it was challenging the actions of the Boston school board. Which are in effect only in Boston.
So, what happens when one judge says yes and one judge says no? This is the real problem, in addition to the grossly anti-democratic reality of judicial supremacy. Why have a President or Congress at all??? All we need are left wing, proto-Communist judges to decide everything?
Yes, you dumbshit MAGA. Courts blocking illegal actions by the president is exactly like having no president or Congress at all.
Fair's fair, remember all of the nationwide injunctions that stopped Abortion???
I don't actually see how an injunction that says "the executive branch may not enforce this unlawful executive order" is a non-party injunction if the executive branch is in fact a party. Similarly situated individuals whose birthright citizenship is disputed are not actually ordered to do anything.
I agree with this. It is fairly common in run of the mill civil cases too, to issue an injunction ordering one of the parties to do or stop doing something generally, not necessarily only with respect to the other party. For example, the permanent injunction in Epic v. Google ordered Google to refrain from taking certain actions on the Android app store, and did *not* limit its scope to only Epic's Android apps. This was within the court's power because it only bound Google, who was in fact a party.
I think this is exactly right.
The executive is a party to the case.
The executive is being ordered to refrain from specific behavior.
It’s not a national injunction. It’s an injunction against the executive.
A national injunction would extrapolate a local case in Florida to a local dispute in California.
Kagan's logic is sound, but it only applies to cases where it is clear the government is on the losing side in lower courts. This is such a case because we have 127 years of unbroken precedent. That is, only SCOTUS can reverse the precedent and nationwide injunctions for decisions below insure no one else can reverse it.
But, for most cases the logic doesn't apply. This should be an exception that permits a nationwide injunction, not the rule.
The government does not agree with your characterization of precedent. All your compromise position does is give a roadmap to say that if a litigant is, in the lower court's opinion, clearly wrong or some other such standard, then they can order nationwide injunctions.
Either they have the power or don't. It cannot hinge on a lower court's evaluation of the case. The point is that it doesn't have power over strangers to the litigation in any event.
No doubt the government thinks they are right on the merits. But it's nonsense if they think precedent (court cases and practice uninterrupted in 127 years) is anything but 100% against them. The government is entitled to make their case to SCOTUS, but not to have their way in most of the country by losing in pockets of the country, escape a nationwide injunction., and not appeal to SCOTUS (Kagan's logic).
I am not proposing that a lower court can justify a nationwide injunction because it believes one side is clearly wrong (that's too broad and begs the question). But in very rare cases, it could happen, this being one of them. And, that's why this case is a bad vehicle for SCOTUS to weigh in on nationwide injunctions.
No doubt the government thinks they are right on the merits.
Well, I, for one, do doubt it. I think the illegal behaviors came first, followed by some sort desperate grabbing at legal straws in the hop they could get by
Wong Kim Ark discussed "a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China...."
It is not frivolous or so lacking in merit (so as to cause an exception to the general rule) to argue that parents who are in this country surreptitiously and illegally, and do not have such a permanent domicile or residence in the United States may NOT confer citizenship on a child born here. To that extent any court, even a lower court, could find that Wong Kim Ark is distinguishable.
I'm not saying that I agree with that argument, but it is not so off the wall that it should be dismissed out of hand and that we have an entirely new procedure for lower courts to deal with what is in your opinion a bad argument.
You dismiss the "clear error" or other such standard, but that would be the practical effect if the lower court sides with the challengers in any case. No national injunction normally, but oh yes, certainly in this case. And name the issue; you'll find 1 of 667 judges who will think the government is making an off the wall argument---even for clearly controversial issues.
Trump did not make up the anti-birthright citizenship argument. It has been around conservative circles since the 1990s.
I agree the argument is not so far off the wall it can be dismissed out of hand. I am arguing every single decision and practice for the past 127 years have dismissed it (merely having arguments the other way don't cut it). What other cases have that record?
" I am arguing every single decision and practice for the past 127 years have dismissed it...."
Can you put a number on that claim?
Not an exact number, but we have 50 states, plus DC, plus the federal government each with multiple agencies that have treated all children born in the USA (except for three exceptions named in Wong) as citizens. That's certainly a large number.
Sotomayor is the only one out of the nine justices who says that Trump's EO is contrary to Scotus precedent.
Well Roe v Wade lasted 49 years before being overruled. That's quite a while.
And Wong Kim Ark itself overturned the Slaughterhouse and Elk v Wilkins precedents.
The interesting bit - which I'm confident SCOTUS will dodge - is :
what do the four acknowleged exceptions to birthright citizenship have in common ? SCOTUS dodged answering that in Wong Kim Ark too. And how does this secret common factor tie in with the concept of "jurisdiction" ?
It doesn't?
1) Wong Kim ark did not overrule Elk.
2) Wong Kim Ark did not dodge answering anything; the “secret common factor” (which is not secret) is jurisdiction.
I knew you'd be right along to say that !
And particularly I knew you'd decline to offer any analysis of what meaning of "jurisdiction" achieves the four and only four exceptions result.
Had the president issued an EO banning abortion (or if you prefer Congress passed a law doing so) during Roe's tenure, a nationwide injunction would have been appropriate for the first district judge to invalidate the law.
The four exceptions are for parents who could not always be held accountable in US courts (but even if I am wrong, that makes no difference in the nationwide injunction argument).
I am not aware of it being raised in the past 127 years. It is a novel argument---one not relevant in the era before massive illegal immigration.
Would it be frivolous or so lacking in merit to argue that the children of people who are citizens of Thailand aren't citizens, because WKA only mentioned China and not Thailand? Could a lower court find that WKA is distinguishable on that basis?
Of course not. The country of the parents is not a relevantly dissimilar issue. I suppose if a litigant could find one it could make that argument.
Illegal presence v. legal presence can impact the "subject to the jurisdiction" language that was at issue in Wong Kim Ark but not decided, especially when it is a novel concept and related to the idea that others here without permission---like an invading army---do not get citizenship.
If nothing else, they'd prefer a few more fact patterns + ability to select their preferred test case(s) for the inevitable SCOTUS review.
The EO denies 14th Amendment birthright citizenship to the children when both parents are not either citizens or green card holders. What different fact pattern would impact the outcome?
We have two basic datapoints ATM. Lawful green card holders = yes; children of diplomats/invading soldiers = no. There are an almost infinite number of datapoints between those two poles.
For example, children of people on tourist visas? Who have overstayed student visas? Of invited/allied soldiers? Of green card holders who lied to get the card? Of green card holders who have done something to make them eligible for deportation? Of temp visa holders who have applied for a green card and are eligible, but the government hasn't done the paperwork? Children of random international NGO's (i.e., not "diplomats")? Children of people who have renounced their citizenship? Children of "dreamers"? Children of people whom were wrongly issued green cards? Children of people who wrongly claim asylum, but are allowed to stay pending a formal hearing? Can the tribes allow people in if they stay on tribal lands? Can the tribes recognize diplomats? People who have kids while in transit e.g., airport or cruise ship in US territorial waters? People who give birth while temporarily in US territories e.g., Guantanamo Bay? People who give birth while temporarily in a US embasy?
You're reading a precedent more narrowly than we have for the past century.
Wong Kim Ark didn't rely on the residency status at all. And it's been taken as such.
We have tons of data points across all 3 branches of government for over 100 years.
Fair enough, but are those discretionary or mandatory?
You probably know there's a 14th Amendment, Section 1, Supreme Court case (Plyer) that says specifically that both illegal aliens and their children are "within its jurisdiction" for equal protection purposes. It wasn't an offhand footnote, it was in the summary and was directly refuting Texas's main argument that they weren't.
And the children in Plyer weren't even born here. It would be tough to argue that children born here are less within the jurisdiction than those not.
Unless Plyer gets overturned it looks like you don't have much wiggle room. I suppose the diehards will try to say "subject to the jurisdiction" in the first sentence means something different than "within its jurisdiction" in the second sentence.
A diehard might say that when it is absolutely true. Diplomats and their children are not "subject to the jurisdiction" but I wouldn't believe that the Court would hold that you could send them to racially segregated schools since the Equal Protection Clause (under your distinction) doesn't apply.
Could anyone (other than their parents or their own government) send the children of diplomats to a US school?
fake edit: I'll note that we are also a bit schizophrenic on the point e.g., we don't send all these corner-case kids an income tax bill
But it would be funny if we started...
How many citizens get sent an income tax bill?
When they get jobs here and make income, they sure will pay taxes.
How about when they get jobs elsewhere?
>When they get jobs here
Irrelevant. US citizens are taxed on their worldwide income. Worse, even if we don't owe anything, we still need to file a tax return or face a $500 penalty.
In some ways, the "birth tourism" parents are doing their kids a disservice.
So it sure sounds like we DO send all these kids an income tax bill
This is a facial challenge to an EO that applies to most of the people you list. To prevail, the plaintiffs have to show the EO violates the 14th Amendment for each and everyone of those people. And, the case does not depend in any way on the people in your list for whom the EO does not apply (e.g., a person who lied about their green card).
As such, none of those different people (the changing fact patterns) impacts how this case will come out. We have all the facts we need to decide this case.
No. And you’re not thinking of this correctly at all. Asking about all these categories of people that the government has created over the last century presumes that the government can create new categories of non-citizens. But the entire point of the 14th amendment was to constitutionalize birthright citizenship so that governments couldn’t decide who was a citizen or not.
Josh -- Two Words: Aroostook War (1838-39). There was a very real fear of illegal Immigration as a means to seize territory in Maine, Michigan, and elsewhere. Ever hear of "54-40 or fight"? or the 1859 Pig War?
There is no way the people who wrote the 14th Amd ever intended birthright citizenship.
Except they did, and said they did, and wrote an amendment that did.
SFW Ed. I'm not arguing the merits. I am only arguing we have had 127 years of unbroken precedent that says your interpretation is wrong which justifies a nationwide injunction from a district court. That injunction holds until SCOTUS says you were right all along (but don't hold your breath waiting for that outcome).
You still haven't articulated how sufficiently "wrong" a party has to be to justify a departure from the norm of no national injunction and what would stop a single district court judge from claiming such wrongness. You disavow a "clear error" standard, but what would you propose? Is this a "good for one ride only" coupon?
This represents an outsized view of the power of the courts. Their task is to do equity to the parties before them. If Able, Baker, and Charlie get their relief, the courts did their jobs. And if Dave, Edward, and Frank sue next, they will have a pretty easy job because of the precedent set by the Able case. Probably a pro se litigant could handle it.
Kagan's (and the author's) view is that the Supreme Court must have the power to reach out and rule on any case it likes and bind everyone because it is just that important. That is contrary to our system of government. If the government is content to lose every case, then justice is being served in every instance.
If the government keeps going to court with the same argument that it has lost 52,000 times in the past, then Rule 11 sanctions are appropriate.
That assumes Dave Edward and Frank have attorneys, know their rights, and have relatively cheap easy access to court decisions. Apparently there are some people who imagine this all to be true for everyone. It's not.
Keep the hypo in mind. This is a "can it stop Hitler" type of law. An easy case, one that will certainly have national interest and free legal representation. TdA deportees and illegal alien children who are infants or in some cases not yet born aren't exactly people with means who know the court system, but they have robust representation.
There is no reason to think that would change in any of the other hypotheticals.
Divide the number of individuals affected by the EO by three.That's how many "easy" cases have to be heard to protect everyone.
That's just the point. A lawsuit is not supposed to "protect everyone." It is supposed to vindicate the rights of the plaintiff. These lawsuits have done that.
If I successfully sue my neighbor for playing his music too loud, I get injunctive relief and my neighbor has to turn it down. As a coincidental result of my case, the other people on my street get relief. But the left would envision the court ruling not just for me but for the whole nation to be free from the nuisance of loud music everywhere. This would allegedly be justified because some people don't have the money or know-how to get proper access to courts to bring a nuisance suit.
That is simply beyond the power of a court in a particular case or controversy.
Except in this case the loud noise is the federal government violating the constitution and the neighborhood is the entire country. Other than that, a perfect analogy.
Absolutely not. My injury is cured if the government recognizes me as a citizen. I don't need them to recognize everyone else or anyone else.
my neighbor ≠ the federal government
the other people on my street ≠ the entire country
Your argument is identical those attempting equate your house to the entire country, or your mortgage to the national debt, or a private business to the federal government. But as most people learned from Sesame Street, One of these things is not like the others; both of these things are not the same.
Other than that, great point!
It's worse. Under the left wing Justice view, the neighbors who were not parties can sue for contempt if you think the music has been turned down but they want it turned down more.
This is the problem. There is no shortage of legal resources for the illegal alien gangster. But none for Dave, Edward, or Frank.
They don't get them for free, and they can't afford to pay for them.
This is why I think a civil war is coming because the exact same situation existed in France, circa 1785.
The other advantage of this approach is that it lets multiple judges consider the issue e.g., maybe we'll get a traditional circuit split.
This executive has demonstrated that their strategy is not to win in court.
Their strategy is to deport and imprison faster than the courts can react.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
1+
The actual strategy is:
1: Attempt to deport
2: Know the courts will stop them
3: Know that there will be gristly crimes as a result
4: Campaign in 2026 on 2 & 3.
This seems persuasive, but I note that a lot of the objections would be minimized if we adopted a norm of broad injunctions getting rapidly processed through the upper courts.
It definitely would help, but I don't see that happening in the main. SCOTUS generally doesn't want to (and on a structural level really can't) be in the business of refereeing 0-day lower-court squabbles with undeveloped records and based on the viewpoint of one or just a handful of regionally-concentrated judges. They've stepped in recently in some of the more extreme cases, but clearly haven't been happy about it.
That said, it's not clear to me yet how much of the current dynamic is simply due to the dramatically increased liberties judges have taken using nationwide injunctions as a real-time policy shaping tool. In the past ~25 years we've literally gone from 5-10 per decade to 5-10 per month.
" In the past ~25 years we've literally gone from 5-10 per decade to 5-10 per month."
You'd think that people would concede this was a problem...
Why does this need to be addressed rapidly? We’ve had birthright citizenship for 150 years. What difference does it make whether we end it in 2025 or 2026?
Speaking at a university event in 2022, Justice Elena Kagan, a liberal, addressed how nationwide injunctions – when coupled with forum-shopping – were hamstringing administrations of both parties, asserting that “It just can’t be right that one district judge can stop a nationwide policy in its tracks and leave it stopped for the years that it takes to go through the normal process,” Kagan said.
It’s on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AWZcsp6wGc
Kagan is the smartest one in her wing. If she can’t keep her story straight it’s not for lack of brains.
Different strokes for different folks.
There is a difference in saying that District Judges have been too quick to order them and they should not be an ordinary remedy vs they are categorically barred. The likely result of this case is we are going to get guidance on when nationwide injunctions can be issued. And that will be that they are allowed but certain conditions need to be met which are more strict than what has been happening.
Jusitces also expressed issues with the speed at which the cases come to the court. It may be that this gets minimized if the nationwide injuctions decrease and they can expedite those that occur. If there are too many that isn't possible
Except she didn't simply say that judges were too quick to order them. The quote in the post you responded to:
“It just can’t be right that one district judge can stop a nationwide policy in its tracks and leave it stopped for the years that it takes to go through the normal process,” Kagan said.
Nothing in there says anything about too quick. She says "It just can't be right."
[…]
That was (D)ifferent!
OK, let's say the IRS, complying with the injunction, attempts to collect taxes from Dog, who was born in the US to tourists on tourist visas. Dog is happy where he is and has no desire to be an American citizen. Why should he have to pay taxes when both he and the US executive agree that he's not an American citizen?
And somebody please think up an interesting hypo for Dog's sister, Easy.
In the outsized view of the powers of courts, it is not enough that parties agree and therefore have no controversy. Court MUST reach out, foster disagreement, create a controversy, and then decide it. That is our imperial judiciary.
Because it’s not up to either him or the government. (And this is a good example of why we should say “administration” rather than “government.”) If he doesn’t want to be a citizen, he has a way to effectuate that.
Of course it is. Dog doesn't want to pay taxes nor be considered a citizen. The government (or administration if you prefer) says "Fine, we don't consider you a citizen and aren't asking for taxes."
No problem. No case or controversy. No role for courts to play.
Why in your view is it a court's business to create a case or controversy where none exists? Anyone else uncomfortable with Dog and the government's arrangement has no standing because they are not injured by this relationship. What you are talking about would be a general grievance that the plaintiff simply wants the government to follow the law---something that time and again has been held not to confer standing.
By "indispensable", I assume she means only allowable and legitimately used for left wing legal causes.
Part of the problem with the "nationwide" aspect is that too often a plaintiff can choose a particularly favorable district court (for example, Texas if the challenge is to a Democratic President's action or California if it's a challenge to a GOP President) or even choose a particularly favorable judge (e.g., in some of the one-judge Texas divisions).
One way of reining this in would be for the courts to follow the intent of Congress in allowing venue against the federal government where "the plaintiff" resides to apply only where all such plaintiffs reside, not merely where any one of them does. The House had indeed proposed the latter meaning, but the Senate rejected it precisely on the ground that it expanded venue too far, using the "the [party]" language that SCOTUS had already indicated would be interpreted to mean all such parties in venue and jurisdictional statutes. The House acceded to this change. The lower courts, however, have thus far been reading the provision as if the rejected House proposal had passed.
Returning to the original intent of that forum provision would still allow what the OP calls non-party injunctions, as venue would always be proper in DC and would occasionally be appropriate in other districts with some particular connection to the facts so that the cause of action could be said to have arisen there. This would still allow for non-party nationwide injunctions but would cut back on the unseemly forum shopping (which in turn fuels the shadow docket as too many cases come up from outlier districts and circuits and require correction).
I suppose that attorneys willing not to pile on out-of-district carpet-bagging plaintiffs could still choose an outlier forum, but even then the reduced number and geographical breadth of plaintiffs and perhaps the changed norm of enforcing the venue restriction more generally would argue against using such a case as the lead for establishing a nationwide rule.
Continuing that thread, there was a court order a few years ago that forced patent case assignments in TX to be randomly assigned within a pool that crossed different judicial districts i.e., the plaintiff theoretically might have to drive 750 miles to their hearing.
If mere private patent cases are important enough for such treatment, the constitutionality of a federal law/EO certainly merits it too.
Since the plaintiffs in many of the non-practicing-entity patent cases were traveling to the Eastern District of Texas (running mostly along the Texas-Louisiana border) from the West coast anyway, broadening the venue to 750 miles often made the trip shorter.
If a national injunction is sought, how about a national lottery as to which judge gets to hear the case. So it's heard in Bangor, ME -- whatever -- Bangor has an airport. My guess is that Guam does too.
There might be some advantages to centralizing most such litigation in DC. First, there are some issues that recur across a wide range of litigation, issues of administrative law or separation of powers, for example. It might be helpful to develop a court specializing in that (which DC to some extent already does).
Second, if such nationwide litigation were centralized there, Congress could pay more attention to making sure that appointees to that court were superb lawyers. Granted, Congress should do that throughout the country, but it's just harder to do that at scale. Plus, DC not being a state, senatorial privileges and other local considerations could be less troublesome.
This is a pure policy argument.
The question is CAN courts issue injunctions that provide relief to non-parties? Unlike the SG, I don't see any Article III issue--the government is a party to the dispute, so there's clearly personal jurisdiction. I think it's pretty clear, however, that Rule 23 necessarily precludes these injunctions outside of class proceedings. We already have a meticulously designed procedure in place to allow district courts to provide this kind of relief, and Rule 23 explicitly includes injunctions. There would be literally zero point to an injunctive class if nationwide injunctions were a thing. Trying to file one would actually be malpractice because you would be risking an adverse decision that binds class members, whereas if you're just going for a nationwide injunction, then losing has no consequences, and you can just keep trying until you get a win.
I do think that things are very different when we get to the circuit courts. Once you have an appellate decision on point, that's binding precedent in the jurisdiction, unlike district court decisions, which have no precedential value even 10 feet down the hall. It's outrageous that the government has an (admittedly longstanding policy) of selectively disregarding circuit precedent because the binding interpretation of the law hasn't yet been embodied in an injunction. It's particularly bad when the government makes a strategic decision not to seek cert. If the government loses a constitutional case and doesn't seek cert, it should follow the lower court precedent.
To your second point, keep in mind the hypo. The government has tried to implement a "can we stop Hitler" type of policy, has lost 10 feet down the hall once or several times, and has shown that it is not serious about its policy because it continues to fail to appeal losing decisions.
Fairly soon, that should start being Rule 11 sanctions land.
This is a pure policy argument.
Yes, I noticed that too. It's one of those "to save the law, the judges must torture the hell out of it, so as to arrive at the right answer" arguments.
That judges should be dispensing justice, or the public good, or somesuch formulation is certainly a view, though not one that I share. But even if you hold this view - and many "liberals" do - it cannot possibly be appealed to under the slogan "the rule of law."
Is the problem district judges issuing nationwide injunctions or that plaintiffs can judge shop. Perhaps what is needed are rules that prohibit plaintiffs from going to a specific district or judge when they are looking for a nationwide injunction. Perhaps request for large scale injunctions should be assigned randomly to judges on a district level.
I've suggested this before: in cases that credibly&actually warrant a nationwide injunction, the injunction determination gets assigned to a 3-judge panel (to avoid the "single judge who thinks he's god" problem) that is randomly selected from the pool of all district court judges in the country (to avoid the forum shopping issue).
Many of these cases are incredibly time sensitive. You want to assemble a three-judge panel on (e.g.) the Friday night of Easter weekend?
I think we can reasonably be concerned about the abuse of national injunctions. It's a broad tool, especially for a single judge.
This doesn't erase its necessity in certain instances. Some commentators, including during the interesting live blog of the oral argument at Scotusblog (Will Baude took part), flagged a possibility of the justices allowing them in certain cases, for instance.
(There was the now favorite metaphor of "buckets" where they would be allowed or not allowed, as it might be.)
There should also be careful appellate review so that one judge or even two judges (a majority of a single appellate panel) does not have too much power. Congressional legislation can also be a helpful clarification -- this should be (should be) something that is a concern for both parties. I know, I know.
Anyway, like Kavanaugh's plea in Friday's opinion, ultimately, SCOTUS should decide the merits of this issue. The "Hitler" example seems like a special case that warrants firm SCOTUS review. And, the birthright citizenship argument as well as the Alien Enemies Act argument is so shoddy that the answer is very clear.
Solution:
When a plaintiff is seeking a national injunction, the case gets randomly assigned to a three judge panel. If two of them agree a national injunction would be warranted, that panel hears the case as if they were a district judge. If not, then the case gets filed in the appropriate district as normal. Any one of the three judges can grant a TRO if the harm from lack of an TRO is immediate, but it only lasts until the all three judges hear the case, the other two over rule the singe judge, or it gets sent back to be fined normally.
Stipulating that we are discussing a proposed statutory change rather than the judiciary merely hunting for truffles in their own rear ends, I have a modest amount of sympathy with your view.
But I think you are letting Trump fever affect your judgement a bit.
Since, I assume, it is not controversial that a national injunction should be an exceptional measure, your 2-1 majority seems not a great deal better than a single judge.
By the law of averages you’re going to get a 2-1 majority which is on the same side as the plaintiff’s carefully venue shopped single judge, roughly half the time. And then if you’re unlucky with the 3 judge court you draw, you - or someone else with the same grievance as you - can have another go next week. Won’t take long to get a friendly panel,
Requiring unanimity from your panel would reduce the odds of getting a winning panel to about 1 in 8, or to put it another way, it will usually mean that one judge is not your natural supporter. Hence you’re going to need the sort of case that deserves an exceptional measure.
And once someone has had a try at a national injunction on Subject X maybe that should be it. Otherwise you just keep on pulling the lever till you get three lemons.
Each Congress can only impeach the President ONCE Apply a time limit, i.e. until the next Congress.
This looks like the United States meeting its flawed administrative law (and administrative justice) system, as well as its (non-flawed, in my view) system of deconcentrated judicial review (as opposed to European/Kelsenian concentrated systems). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I take issue with the inherent logic of the author’s position. If the gov loses every case and chooses not to appeal, then justice is being done every single time. As a practicing trial attorney, few things would make me happier than learning that my opponent’s legal theories fail always and everywhere. Under such circumstances, there would be a variety of remedies available to address the government’s attempts. Further, such a scenario is incredibly unlikely, as there will invariably be splits between courts. In sum, the scenario presented by the author is amazingly unlikely to ever occur, but even if it does, COURTS OTHER THAN THE SUPREME COURT would be able to address what amounts to abusive, meritless litigation. So, sure, the Supreme Court won’t be able to hear it, nor would they need to. Complete consensus by all lower courts would generally be a good problem to have.
This won’t help your client if he’s in a foreign prison.
The constitution largely requires all three branches to be acting within normal parameters.
If the counterpart to executive orders that bypass Congress (or even the regulatory process) is a national injunction, it’s hard for me to lose sleep.
Bubba, Impeachment is the intended solution.
If the gov loses every case and chooses not to appeal, then justice is being done every single time. As a practicing trial attorney,...
So require hundreds of thousands of people, all being targeted for the same illegal action by the same set of government officials, to individually go through arrest, pre-trial detention, and oh yeah, pay $10,000 or so to a practicing trial attorney, over and over again, indefinitely? That's what you call justice every single time?
I can see why a practicing trial attorney might think that. The rest of us understand that the government often uses the process as the punishment.
I don't find any of these examples compelling:
The illegally terminated government employees go to the Merit Systems Protection Board. I, an ordinary citizen and taxpayer, have no right to Jews in the State Department. Nor do I have a right to a DEI-free FAA, even though I want one. The individuals allegedly discriminated against by the FAA are prosecuting a suit on their own behalf.
The remedy in the Christian currency case depends on what the injury is seen to be. Personally, I don't like "offended observer" standing. I would say the most our hypothetical plaintiff is entitled to is an order that the government not let any religious stuff get into his hands. It's up to the executive, in its discretion, to decide if there is an alternative to not printing the bills at all.
Law enforcement exceeding legal or constitutional bounds is common and is conventionally litigated one incident at a time. The courts, in scaling back Bivens, have already ruled that constitutional violations by law enforcement officials are no big deal.
That's right, his examples are silly and pointless. Does anyone really want some federal district judge deciding what is printed on the money? We already have a federal government with racial hiring preferences, and no judge has stopped it.
How would an injunction against currency work in a single district?
"The illegally terminated government employees go to the Merit Systems Protection Board."
Hey, that's a thing that used to exist.
Counterpoint:
For the first nearly 200 years of our nation's existence, we survived just fine without nationwide injunctions, especially at the District Court level. The courts acted just fine as a check on the executive branch. It was only in the late 1960's they appeared to start, and very infrequently, and typically at the circuit court level or above.
Only recently have they become increasingly common, and being used by district courts to, in essence, decide political policy on a national level.
Post may be in favor of this concept now, as selected district judges are using their power to determine policy on a national level. But will he feel the same in 4 or 8 years, when newly appointed district judges thwart any and all policies that a liberal Democrat may put in place, with a nationwide injunction?
For the first nearly 200 years of our nation's existence, we survived just fine without nationwide injunctions, especially at the District Court level. The courts acted just fine as a check on the executive branch.
Oh really? You mean there were no problems that could have been solved with a nationwide injunction? Essentially you are doing nothing here except saying you dislike nationwide injunctions.
OK. But that's no argument.
Mr Post argues "I regard this as a fatal objection to a rule prohibiting non-party injunctions in all cases."
A "fatal objection". That someone, in the first nearly 200-odd years of the nation's existence...didn't occur.
Now, just because a option "can" potentially be beneficial, doesn't mean it's "always" beneficial. Judges are just as prone to error as any individual. This is why we have a panel of judges, as opposed to an individual judge on the circuit and Supreme. This is why we have a Congress, as opposed to a dictator. And even herein, we can have lapses in judgement (i.e. Plessy)
The Nationwide injunction allows 600+ individuals to be individual dictators. Making policy on a nationwide basis. It maginfies potential errors
This seems to me a situation where SCOTUS is hoist on its own petard through the practice of refusing standing to groups and organizations that have tried to bring more general cases that question higher level government actions. While this avoided having to deal with controversial cases, it kicked the can down to lower level judges to try and produce general remedies extrapolated from individual cases. It would be far better for SCOTUS to accept that it will have to hear cases where groups and organizations, though not directly affected by a government action, bring forward a constitutional challenge. No more dodging and weaving as it has done on so many issues from gun rights to school choice.
That's really the crux of the whole debate. The traditional role of a court is when you or I have a problem we go get relief through a neutral judge who fairly applies the law. At the end of the day, if we are right, the judge gives us the relief we seek.
The leftist modern view of courts is that they are to be instruments of social change. I shouldn't just want a same sex marriage, but I want every person who chooses one IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY to get one. And the courts should give me a forum to litigate other people's rights.
Such a view invites lawsuits and strife and does not keep judges in their proper lane by ruling on particular cases and controversies. As long as I get compensated for my car wreck injuries, I have no part to play in whether the guy down the street gets compensated for his. That is simply being an intrusive busybody.
Like they used to say, if you want social change, run for Congress or your state legislature. Don't file suits that have nothing to do with you.
That's right. The Warren Court popularized the idea that courts were to force social change. The belief has been declining.
Anyone else shocked that Schlafly's still Big Mad about school desegregation?
Obergefell filed a suit on his own behalf. Of course when SCOTUS ruled in his favor, that established a nationwide rule. Perhaps you don't like the ruling on the merits, but I doubt you have an issue with the fact it applied across the nation.
that was its main defect !!!
We used to have it so one state did not have to recognize a gay 'mrraige" and that was correct.
Now we have perversion as a religion
Writing for himself and Alito, Thomas said that the court's decision "enables courts and governments to brand religious adherents who believe that marriage is between one man and one woman as bigots, making their religious liberty concerns that much easier to dismiss.
Thomas said that the court's decision "enables courts and governments to brand religious adherents who believe that marriage is between one man and one woman as bigots, making their religious liberty concerns that much easier to dismiss.
Which is completely foolish. Obergfell did not change anyone's mind as to whether opposing gay marriage is bigotry. Do you, or Thomas, think that some judge somewhere decided, the day after Obergfell,
that some litigant was a bigot because he opposed gay marriage, and therefore ruled for the other guy?
Nonsense.
Well, since you ask, yes I do think that.
No doubt plenty of judges already thought that opposing gay marriage made you a bigot, so no change of mind was necessary, but once Obergefell was handed down, it could be used - say - for putting a thumb on the scales in child custody disputes.
As it happens I am visiting the former colonial power at the moment, where the local Supreme Court recently handed down a decision that - for the purposes of the "Equality Act" - which appears to be some kind of big deal equality statute hereabouts - "transwomen are not women" or if you prefer "man" and "male" and "woman" and "female" refer to sex.
It's purely a statutory interpretation decision, not relying on either biology or social mores, but it's astonishing - to me at least - how suddenly the wind seems to have changed. Not long ago people who wrote "transwomen are not women" on social media pages could expect a visit from the British police in re "hate crimes." But now pretty much everyone - in print and in real life - seems to be willing to say "the whole thing was nutso from day one."
Indicating that a dry legal decision can uncork the social mores bottle. Revealing what was always there, but was kept suppressed.
This is a lot of words for hoping that a populist version of legal realism rules the day, AND that the populist winds change as well.
Seems quite a set of hills to climb.
I for one hope you never get satisfaction in your hostility for one of the legit things that makes America exceptional.
In his case, the merits meant whether federal law required Ohio to list him on his boyfriend's death certificate.
Would you have a problem with requiring every single person in New York who wants to own a handgun to hire an attorney, file a lawsuit, and wait five years for their case to make it to trial?
You seem to be saying the only way out of that is to win control of the NY legislature. Which is not much different than saying the 2nd Amendment isn't binding on them at all, as long as they're willing to concede to any individual who waits five years and is willing to pay an attorney about what it costs to buy a car.
Hoist WITH its own petard.
A petard is a bomb, not a flag pole.
Also a colloquial term for a fart, which I think is the usage that originally led to the expression.
There's letters sealed; and my two schoolfellows,
Whom I will trust as I will adders fanged,
They bear the mandate; they must sweep my way
And marshal me to knavery. Let it work,
For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petard; and 't shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon. O, 'tis most sweet
"The phrase's meaning is that a bomb-maker is blown ("hoist", the past tense of "hoise") off the ground by his own bomb ("petard"), and indicates an ironic reversal or poetic justice.[1]"
Wiki
When in one line two crafts directly meet.
— Prince Hamlet, in Hamlet, act 3, scene 4.[8]
I think it comes from Hamlet, where it is definitely used in the bomb sense :
"For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petard; and 't shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon. "
Once your petard explodes, it's going to be hard to tell if you were on it or just with it.
O David, how crazy, The fact it's Kagan should have warned you off that stupid opinion. One Executive but a ton of injunctors, the perfect sniper dodge for illegality. You get him on this , I'll get him on that and we"ll all bring him down. Sotomayor is the dumbest on the bench but Katan is the most out of touch with humanity.
Breathtakingly Stupid Argument From Elena Kagan
Deal W. Hudso
https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/breathtakingly-stupid-argument-from-elena-kagan
First, there are Class Actions. If that is not sufficient, there are doomsday scenarios I am sure we all want to account for (or at least not close the door on a nationwide injunction for now). Can the Court leave the door ajar for such situations using a legal principle such as strict scrutiny to make nationwide injunctions unallowable and even unthinkable except in only the most unusual and threatening of circumstances (such as a situation you mention where the executive is taking (a) clearly unconstitutional action, (b) on an issue of great threat to liberty (eg, deporting people), (c) and is making a clear effort to thwart appellate review). To put teeth into the legal principle as to lower courts and zealous attorneys, it could indicate that a lawyer seeking such relief is opening themselves to a presumptive FRCP 11 sanctiion and bar referral given the absurdly high standard and judges entering such relief are presumptively acting extra-legally and opening themselves to judicial discipline and impeachment. The Court could also indicate a preference towards immediate Supreme Court emergency review when such an injunction is entered. The Court could then make an example of attorneys and judges in future cases. All of which would preserve the nationwide injunction for truly extreme cases you are concerned about, while killing the now almost routine practice of entering such injunctions.
"there are doomsday scenarios"
"where the executive is taking (a) clearly unconstitutional action, (b) on an issue of great threat to liberty (eg, deporting people), (c) and is making a clear effort to thwart appellate review)."
I'm sorry to have to inform you that doomsday is gonna be waaay worse than that.
Which is the point, really. Anything that would really qualify as "doomsday" is not within the courts' power to prevent. It's more of an executive branch thing - invasion of the body snatchers, a hurtling asteroid, a plague of Biblical proportions, civil war etc.
The courts can issue orders but they have no troops or howitzers or even bulldozers. They rely on the executive branch saying "To hear is to obey, O Master, We kowtow to your demands."
Which is not really what doomsday is made of.
These deportation cases are problematic in that class action is not a good fit for habeas. In fact, the govt successfully argued to prevent class certification and promises to continue to oppose class certification in habeas/AEA litigation.
So in a situation where class action has already lost; saying class action is a remedy or solution to the nationwide injunction problem is not answering the problem for this class of cases. The govt controls the venue by quickly shipping detainees to far flung detention centers and habeas has to be brought in the jurisdiction of confinement...the govt opposes class action habeas...the govt loses individual cases and then doesn't appeal. The govt is behaving badly and are not good faith actors. They are gaming the system and doing so to deprive people of due process..a core constitutional principle.
For those of you claiming the courts are overreaching with nationwide injunctions, did you have the same reaction to this?
https://missouriindependent.com/2022/11/14/six-gop-led-states-win-national-injunction-against-biden-student-debt-relief-plan/
The lower court did not apply the injunction to the six states suing, it applied a nationwide injunction, thwarting the will of the majority represented by the votes of the American electorate for Joseph R. Biden.
Somehow, the voices screaming now were silent then. Surprise, surprise.
Standing was based on financial harm to Missouri. Was there a narrower way to avoid that harm?
So, your position is that Biden's Student Debt Relief Executive Order would be overturned only in Missouri? Always good to know someone's true views.
I think Roger's point was that someone could abuse the student loan system to Missouri's detriment, and then move out of state.
It's just that he failed to consider that his argument applies equally well to immigration cases where states are opposing the feds.
In the current birthright citizenship cases there are states claiming financial harm if they lose the future revenue they could potentially gather from birthright citizens. They could very easily (if they haven't already) point out that they also lose revenue from someone who would have later moved into their state after getting birthright citizenship in another state.
Therefore, according to your logic, national injunction?
Maybe we are looking at the problem (I don't think there is a problem) the wrong way. Is the process itself a problem, or the people executing the process the problem? I argue the latter, and there is a separate process to deal with that.
In the end, I want a Fed Dist Ct judge to have the ability to issue a nationwide injunction. It should be exceptionally rare. Unfortunately, it is not currently, and that is a problem. Regardless, I believe the fed dist ct judge should have that authority. They are, after all, confirmed by the Senate.
Judges have a written code of conduct by which they operate. To rein in judicial misbehavior, file complaints against them under that code. And enforce it. That is how you're supposed to deal with judges that abuse their judicial authority. I bet it is a public record, too, that a complaint was lodged. If not, it should be.
If Norman Eisen can do it, so can others.
"an order placing the words Christ is our Savior' on one-dollar bills;"
Or worse, "In God We Trust".
It’s been said many times, but it’s a useful heuristic:
When Kagan and Roberts are on the same side, that is the correct position.
When Kagan and Roberts are on opposite sides, whichever side Alito is not on is the correct position.