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Second Amendment Roundup: Supreme Court Decides VanDerStok
Narrow decision leaves ATF regulation in limbo.
On March 26, the Supreme Court decided Bondi v. VanDerStok, holding that ATF's 2022 regulatory expansion of the definitions of "firearm" and "frame or receiver" is not facially void. The Court read the proceeding as a facial challenge only and offered no opinion on whether the regulation would be valid as applied to specific items. As long as the definitions may be validly applied to at least something, Justice Gorsuch wrote for the majority of seven justices, they are facially valid. Justices Thomas and Alito dissented.
The Gun Control Act (GCA) defines "firearm" in part as "(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon…." 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3). The ATF rule added to (A) "weapon parts kits" that are "designed to or may readily be completed, assembled, restored, or otherwise converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive." And it added to (B) "a partially complete, disassembled, or nonfunctional frame or receiver."
According to the Court, "this case does not ask us to resolve whether ATF's new regulations . . . may be lawfully applied to particular weapon parts kits or unfinished frames or receivers. Instead, the plaintiffs have pursued what the lower courts called a 'facial' pre-enforcement challenge to the agency's authority to regulate any weapon parts kits or unfinished frames or receivers."
That characterization is hard to square with plaintiffs' briefs in the Supreme Court. Indeed, plaintiffs expressly argued that "the Rule is invalid regardless of whether the GCA is read to include only functional frames or receivers" and regardless of the fact that the GCA does cover kits if they "contain[ ] a frame or receiver." See Pls. Br. 15, 35 (emphasis added). Justice Alito was therefore correct to state in dissent that the Court's treatment of plaintiffs' arguments was "unwarranted and extremely unfair."
Also unfair was the Court's twisting of a supposed "concession" made by counsel at argument—that they had no "quarrel" with the ATF's prior practice of regulating certain unregulated frames or receivers that had reached a critical stage of manufacture. But as the argument transcript makes clear, that concession was made with respect to the argument that plaintiffs should still win even if the GCA covers some unfinished frames or receivers—i.e., the argument the Court refused to consider. See Tr. at 59, 84. Whatever the reason, the Court chose to engage only a caricatured version of plaintiffs' arguments.
The Court noted that some kits "requir[e] substantial effort, specialized expertise, uncommon equipment, and a significant amount of time" before anyone can fire a shot, while others "contain all components necessary" for "a complete pistol" and "can be completed in perhaps half an hour using commonly available tools." The statutory definition in § 921(a)(3)(A) requires that the object be, first, a "weapon," and second, it must expel a projectile, be designed to do so, or be readily convertible to do so.
The Polymer80's "Buy Build Shoot" kit is said to be a "weapon" because it comes with "all of the necessary components to build" a Glock-variant semiautomatic pistol which might be built "in 21 minutes using only 'common' tools and instructions found in publicly available YouTube videos." That makes it capable of being "readily . . . converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive." (That definition is in the statute and did not originate with the regulation.)
The term "weapon" is appropriate, according to the Court, because people "use artifact nouns to refer to unfinished objects—at least when their intended function is clear." For example, "a rifle disassembled for storage, transport, or cleaning" is a weapon even though it must be reassembled. Similarly, one "might speak of the table he just bought at IKEA, even though hours of assembly remain ahead of him." But there are limits to these analogies:
Few would call a pile of unfinished logs a table. … Weapon parts kits vary widely. … Not all come as complete as the "Buy Build Shoot" kit. … And at some point a kit may be so incomplete or cumbersome to assemble that it can no longer fairly be described as a "weapon" capable of "read[y] … conver[sion]" into a working firearm.
That's the first time in Supreme Court history that the term "artifact noun" appears. The normal rule is to construe terms in a criminal statute narrowly against the government and in favor of the person to whom it may apply. That's the rule of lenity, which the majority says has no application to this case.
The Court upheld the parts-kit regulatory definition because it incorporated the statutory definition: "Because at least some weapon parts kits satisfy both of subsection (A)'s tests, § 478.11 is not facially invalid." The Court did not hold that the definitions in the regulation that are not found in the statute would necessarily be valid. That leaves the extra-statutory definitions subject to challenge as applied.
According to the court, "the statute nowhere says that a 'weapon' must have a fully functional frame or receiver," but even if it did, "some weapon parts kits may fit that description. Imagine a kit identical to Polymer80's in all respects, except that it has a complete frame." Of course, if it had a complete frame, it would be a firearm under statutory definition (B).
The Court poses the analogy of a "starter gun," which the statute defines as a firearm under (A) if it is a weapon that "can readily be converted to expel projectiles by the action of an explosive." In the case cited by the Court, US v. 16,179 Molso … Starter Guns, the block in the barrel could be drilled out and it would fire. That meant that the gun had an intact frame or receiver and so was a firearm under (B).
The Court next found that the GCA regulates some "partially complete" frames or receivers. Those terms are "artifact nouns," which "may sometimes describe not-yet-complete objects. Recall … your friend who calls his IKEA kit a table." Using the Polymer80 as an example, the Court states that one must remove certain plastic tabs, which a novice can do in minutes, and then a "few holes are drilled for the pins that hold [other] parts in place." (The Court doesn't mention it, but if those holes are not drilled to perfection, the item cannot function.) However, the Court cautioned:
we do not suggest that the GCA reaches, and ATF may regulate, any combination of parts susceptible of conversion into a frame or receiver with sufficient time, tools, and expertise. Like the term "weapon," the artifact nouns "frame" and "receiver" have their bounds. Some products may be so far from a finished frame or receiver that they cannot fairly be described using those terms.
Consistent with the above, the Court rejected the argument that if the GCA reaches some unfinished frames or receivers, the government might next classify AR-15 rifle receivers as machineguns under the National Firearms Act because they can be converted into machinegun receivers. "The government represents that AR-15 receivers do not 'qualify as the receiver of a machinegun.' . . . Our analysis of the GCA thus does not begin to suggest that ATF possesses authority to regulate AR-15 receivers as machineguns under the NFA."
That statement will be useful against lawsuits claiming that AR-15s are machineguns because they can be converted into them. An expert with proper jigs, tools, and machinery might be able to convert a semiautomatic receiver into a machinegun receiver in a short period of time; alternatively, installation of a machinegun conversion kit might be accomplished in minutes. Such capabilities do not change the status of an AR-15 as a semiautomatic firearm, and VanDerStok lays that issue to rest.
Finally, the Court declined "to address what weight, if any, ATF may lawfully give jigs, tools, and instructions when deciding whether a frame or receiver is present." That leaves that part of the rule open to challenge.
Concurring, Justice Sotomayor stated that if a manufacturer is uncertain about what is a firearm, it can ask ATF, and "a failure to do so might suggest willfulness on their part." That's inconsistent with the due process rule that a criminal law must give notice and that law enforcement authorities do not determine the meaning of the law.
Also concurring, Justice Kavanaugh addressed the "potential fair-notice problem," noting that failure to conduct a background check is punishable without a willfulness element but recalling the government's representation that it would likely not charge a person who "was not aware that he was violating the law." But prosecutors in the field won't even know about that concession.
Dissenting, Justice Thomas would have asked only whether the rule contravenes "clear statutory text" or "exceeds the [GCA's] legislatively-imposed limits on agency authority." But the majority "substitutes novel linguistic labels for traditional statutory interpretation; mistakes outlier definitions for exemplars; and improperly imports attributes of one provision into another."
According to Justice Thomas, the majority incorrectly followed the Salerno rule – which applies to statutes, not regulations – that a facial challenge must establish that "no set of circumstances exists under which the Act would be valid." Justice Thomas added:
If a regulatory definition survives APA challenge so long as just one item it covers also happens to be covered by the statute it purports to interpret, it is difficult to understand how an agency would ever promulgate an invalid definition. So long as it imports the definition Congress laid out in the statute, the agency can sweep in whatever additional conduct it wishes.
But Justice Thomas credited the majority for attempting to limit its method to the facts of this case, adding: "So long as lower courts do not equate an APA challenge with a 'facial' one, they are free to disregard the majority's analysis and hold that the Rule exceeds ATF's statutory authority." And here, the ATF regulation defines "frame or receiver" to include "objects that are not frames or receivers, but that may be 'converted' into them in the future." And the readily-converted language appears only in the definition in (A), not in the reference to frame or receiver in (B).
Moreover, as to ATF's definition of a weapon parts kit, "while an object that 'may readily be converted' into a gun qualifies as a 'firearm' if that object is already a 'weapon,' an object that is not already a weapon does not. As to another one of the majority's arguments, "Both starter guns and disassembled rifles usually have functional frames or receivers."
Justice Thomas concluded, "Nothing in the GCA suggests that the terms 'frame' and 'receiver' also include the materials that one could use to create them, or that parts including neither a frame nor a receiver could constitute a 'weapon.'" To the extent that any ambiguity existed, he would have resolved the case consistent with Thompson/Center Arms (which yours truly argued) and applied the rule of lenity.
Justice Alito dissented on the basis that the majority "decides this case on a ground that was not raised or decided below and that was not the focus of the briefing or argument in this Court." The question presented was whether ATF exceeded its authority under the GCA, and the government defended the rule as correct under the statute without mention of the Salerno test. If the "no-set-of-circumstances" rule applies to regulations, challengers could never prevail against agencies; "because it would take an extraordinarily obtuse agency to write a regulation so completely wrong as that, applying Salerno in the statutory context would seem to dictate that plaintiffs would always lose."
Nonetheless, Justice Alito agreed with the actual, narrow, and unremarkable holding of the majority that "a gun kit that is all-but-assembled" and "a frame that is as close to completion as possible" are firearms under the GCA.
The majority thus upheld the two regulatory definitions at issue as not being invalid in all circumstances in part because they incorporated some statutory provisions. The Court recognized the viability of as-applied challenges, which can still go forward.
At bottom, VanDerStok thus didn't resolve much in terms of possible future challenges. Specific ATF firearm classifications will still be subject to judicial review.
The scope of the 2022 regulations was far broader than the two definitions at issue here. As it did with other regulatory expansions, the Biden Administration sought to push the envelope far beyond what the GCA authorized. None of the 2022 regulations needed updating or were warranted by the GCA. I've covered some of the issues here.
In his Executive Order of February 7, 2025, President Trump directed the Attorney General to review all rules promulgated by the Department of Justice, including by ATF, from January 2021 through January 2025, pertaining to firearms, and to present a plan of action to protect Second Amendment rights. As part of this process, General Pam Bondi should initiate action to repeal in its entirety ATF's 2022 rule, 87 F.R. 24652.
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I have to admit that this version of the Salerno test seems wrong. Help me out with this proposed law:
No black person of African descent may possess a firearm.
The law is obviously challenged in court as being facially discriminatory. But applying Salerno, why shouldn't a judge conclude that some people are indisputably black by any definition? And also conclude that some of these individuals are currently incarcerated, in a mental institution, or under age 12. As such there are at least some applications of the law which are valid.
Therefore, a facial challenge fails. Individuals who are disarmed may bring as applied challenges but the law stands.
I cannot imagine this being the result. Tell me how my application of Salerno is wrong.
I think that regulatory agencies are more than entitled to ensure that people can’t use gimmicks to get around a Congressional statute. Under Mr. Halbrook’s theory, a disassembled gun, or perhaps merely an unloaded one, is not a weapon. This is a lot of bommbast to support an extremely poor position.
The fact of the matter is, the questions presented in the certiorari petition were facial questions, not applied ones. They were phrased in general terms. The respondents reply brief accepted those questions as written and proceeded to argue against certiorari on those grounds.
It’s a little late in the game tor the respondents, having accepted the questions as presented, to then make a switch and propose in their briefs that the Court instead address a different, narrower set of questions that apply to their products only.
The court was well within ordinary judicial procedure to ignore the switch and keep its focus on the questions presented. And the court was entirely correct to interpret the respondents’ abandonment of the facial questions presented, with their briefs instead focusing on narrower as-applied questions limited to their specific products that were NOT presented, as essentially conceding that the questions as presented were indefensible, thereby waiving their right to defend the questions presented. This is simple ordinary judicial practice.
Justice Alito, and Mr. Halbrook, are blowing smoke here.
Perhaps the defendant’s lawyers were incompetent not to propose in their certiorari reply briefs that the court only address an as-applied challenge. Indeed, perhaps sometimes the overy zealous thereby become less competent, because in their eagerness to get the court to issue as sweeping and donor-energizing a ruling as possible, they ignore or close the door to narrower approaches that might result in merely squeaking out a boring little win, and in doing so, end up losing everything.
That may well have happened here.
Part of what's going on here, I suppose, is that 2nd amendment defenders start with a general understanding that these sorts of laws are fundamentally illegitimate to begin with. Congress is legislating in a forbidden area, to forbidden ends.
Guns, as I keep saying, = printing presses. Imagine the government enacting laws to make it harder for people to have printing presses the government was unaware of; How long would such a law survive review? A day? A law like this shouldn't survive any longer.
Redundantly unconstitutional, as 2nd amendment advocates are virtually always originalists, (Getting around the 2nd amendment is one of the points of living constitutionalism, after all.) and these laws rest on the exercise of undelegated power by Congress; We hold a pre-Wickard understanding of the reach of the Interstate commerce clause!
So there's a pretty heavy thumb on the scale to begin with: A forbidden area, forbidden ends, forbidden means. Finding these sorts of regulations unconstitutional is not a heavy lift.
Of course, on the present Court, perhaps only Thomas shares this perspective, so expecting the Court to rule in accord with it is pretty silly.
From a more
corruptconventional constitutional perspective, this regulation is still problematic, of course, because it doesn't inform the citizen of what will and won't be held to be illegal.It's not the least bit silly to expect the Court to notice that this regulation doesn't give the citizen due notice of what will and will not be held to be illegal. In fact, as Halbrook notes, the Court DID notice that the regulation was fatally deficient in this regard, and Sotomayor, (Of course Sotomayor!) suggested that a manufacturer failing to run a kit past the BATF for an opinion could be treated as proof of willful intent to violate the regulation.
Even somebody who doesn't view the Constitution the way people like Halbrook or myself do, should be outraged by THAT.
The plaintiffs here were not seeking exemption for their specific products. They were seeking, and initially got, vacatur of the entire regulation. People who sought and obtained a facial remedy are not entitled to turn around and say they only want to make an as-applied challenge. If they can’t defend the facial remedy they got, they should concede and drop their lawsuit and make the as-applied lawsuit they should have done in the first place.
You can’t bite off more than you can chew and then complain it’s not fair you’re choking.
Void for vagueness IS a facial challenge! And a party that prevails at the circuit court level can hardly be said to have bitten off more than they could chew; The Court just didn't care that the regulation was too vague to conform to.
Because it's a gun control regulation, and gun control regulations get analyzed to a different, more forgiving standard.
And that’s a loser argument. It’s no vaguer than numerous other statutes and regulations. Civil statutes just don’t have to be specified with extreme precision.
Obviously it was a losing argument, but I'd say it was only a losing argument because they were gun kits.
Also, why the outrage? Pharmaceutical companies have to run drugs by the FDA for an opinion before they can market them. So do automobile and airplane manufacturers, the right to travel notwithstanding. Lots of other well-established regulatory schemes do in lots of other contexts. It’s a very common regulatory approach when there are concerns a product might not be safe, to require it to be evaluated or tested and get an approval in advance of sale. What’s the problem?
The cause for outrage is as I related above: That this regulation directly implicates an enumerated constitutional right, and it's being analyzed as though it implicated stamp collecting.
As though discouraging people from exercising a constitutional right without the government's knowledge was a legitimate aim of government to begin with.
the difference being a right specified in the BoR
Your analogy doesn't make sense.
You are comparing regulatory compliance for finished and complete products to be marketed and consumed in the US.
Using your analogy, a car engine needs to also go through the same regulatory compliance as a completed automobile. Additionally, if I machine that engine myself for my own personal use on my own personal property, there are no government regulations I need to comply with.
"Parts" generally aren't regulated (chemicals are, so I concede in that case), but metal parts for cars aren't regulated. When I assemble a car for my own personal use, that is not regulated. If I want to drive the finished vehicle on the government-provided roads, then I need to comply with regulations.
Car kits are absolutely regulated.
https://www.sema.org/news-media/magazine/2022/08/its-time-replicas#:~:text=Kit%20cars%20are%20subject%20to,annual%20reports%20on%20vehicle%20production.
Bzzzt! That's not about regulating car kits. It's about regulating small production run working cars.
You could sell the unassembled kits just fine, it's just that the person who put the car together would have to jump through flaming hoops to get driving it on a government road approved.
For example, the FD&C Act has numerous terms no less vague. What’s “safe?” What’s “effective?” What’s an “adequate” trial? What’s a “well-controlled” trial? There’s no basis for requiring gun regulation to work any differently than numerous other regulatory schemes.
For example, Auto and airplane regulation implicates the right to trial, and the statutes and regulations are filled with similar language.
Cool your jets. The outrage is misplaced.
By default, these drugs are banned until government approval is obtained. By default, guns are not only permitted but protected against government regulation.
The word "regulated" is actually in the text of the Second Amendment. By your logic, that makes gun ownership *less* free than the sale of pharmaceuticals.
Concededly, the militia can be regulated. But it is the People who have the right, not the militia.
"It's not the least bit silly to expect the Court to notice that this regulation doesn't give the citizen due notice of what will and will not be held to be illegal. In fact, as Halbrook notes, the Court DID notice that the regulation was fatally deficient in this regard, and Sotomayor, (Of course Sotomayor!) suggested that a manufacturer failing to run a kit past the BATF for an opinion could be treated as proof of willful intent to violate the regulation."
And this, by itself, has been enough to invalidate many laws or regulations. But in this area, the Court has now twice taken a stingy view.
To continue with analogies it would be like if your town passes a law saying it was illegal to play your music too loudly. When challenged, the law is upheld because there is clearly a volume, say when it splits your neighbor's ear drum, that is too loud for music. Thus, the law is valid and one should just ask a local cop if his music is too loud before playing.
It is not applied in this way except in this nefarious way to evade having to answer the question presented.
Before you get too excited about this analogy, you should be aware that noise ordinances that don’t have a specific decibel requirement have been routinely upheld against constitutional vagueness challenges. Your analogy is in my favor, not yours.
https://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/court-of-appeals/2016/171.html
I never meant to imply that a specific decibel level was required. The law simply says the music cannot be "too loud." I tried to make as vague of a law as possible. That's clearly too vague. If that doesn't suit you, then pick out any law that is void for vagueness---say, the vagrancy law in the Jacksonville case or the gang loitering law in Chicago.
Shouldn't those laws have been upheld because there are clearly core activities which could be punishable? In other words, this defeats the void for vagueness doctrine in every case because although there are edge cases and cases where it would go too far to apply the law, there are certain things that are clearly covered in every vague law.
The US Army has procedures for maintaining rifles. The procedure involves disassembling the rifle. The document then repeatedly refers to the disassembled parts as a “weapon,” e.g. “clean the weapon,” “inspect the weapon,” “assemble the weapon.”
How then can it be wrong to refer to a weapon kit as a “weapon?”
https://rdl.train.army.mil/catalog-ws/view/100.ATSC/010A91E6-62F4-45F4-84E8-194C16424D30-1343310377074/report.pdf
Last I checked, reassembling your weapon didn't involve drilling out holes or filing off lugs. You just put the pieces together.
The word I heard that the 'machining' required for some of the Glockesque kits involved:
1)Penknife to trim off the plastic tabs
2)Cordless - heck, old manual egg-beater - drill to drill some holes, with positioning done with the enclosed jig.
As in 15 minutes, perhaps, start to finish, for anyone who can run a drill. Your opinion is that that's enough 'machining' to make it 'not readily convertible'? If so, what about 10 minutes? 5 minutes? 1 minute? No drill required, just the pen-knife? No tools at all, just snap off some part like when we built airplane models as kids? If it takes less time to complete a gun kit than to make one of these, is that a problem?
Not trying to gotcha, but am interested in where you draw the line?
No, my opinion is that the regulation doesn't distinguish between 15 minutes of precision free filing, and 8 hours of work in a full machine shop. Expressly, that was the range of 'readily converted' the government cited.
Void for vagueness is a facial challenge, but it's not saying that the law can't be applied in a manner that would be constitutional if that were the only way the law could be applied.
It's saying that the citizen has no way in advance to know if the action they propose to take will be regarded as legal.
And that's the problem here: You have no way in advance to know whether the kit you propose to sell will be considered a "kit" or a "firearm" by the government. And that's void for vagueness, the regulation ITSELF has to be enough to determine what is legal!
Now, I don't think the BATF under the present administration is going to be unreasonable. But 4 years from now, another administration could come in, and under the exact same regulation, declare basically every kit under the sun to be an illegal firearm, and a few million Americans felons if they don't immediately dispose of them.
Sorry for being unclear. I wasn't asking about the details of this decision, but where Justice Bellmore would draw the 'readily convertible' line.
(for the sake of argument, assume that Justice Bellmore believes that commercial sale of firearms shouldn't be just a cash-n-carry, no questions asked thing...obviously if one thinks anyone should be able to go to a gun store and buy a gun without any background checks, then you should be able to buy kits as well, so that's less interesting)
"obviously if one thinks anyone should be able to go to a gun store and buy a gun without any background checks"...
Just to put this in context, I'll remind you that for most of this nation's history, anybody COULD walk into a gun store and buy a gun without any background checks. It wasn't until 1968 that the federal government regulated interstate sales of handguns. Background checks weren't required until 1993. (And it was a big enough deal that it helped Democrats lose control of Congress in the '94 election!)
People reason about gun control these days without appreciating just how NEW all these laws are, and that it actually WAS a matter of just walk in and buy it, for most of the nation's history. If you weren't in the mood to just mail in a check, that is. That's a real magazine ad from when I was a child.
Most of our history is being treated as a reductio ad absurdum... If I weren't bald I'd be tearing out my hair. The historical ignorance is palpable.
So, suppose Justice Bellmore wanted to propose a real test, and didn't care that the law in question was a gross violation of the 2nd amendment, and huge over-reach in terms of delegated powers... I suppose it would be something like, "All surfaces of the receiver necessary for its functioning must be produced by the end user, but features of only cosmetic significance may already be complete."
See, while I think these laws are constitutionally illegitimate, and my sympathies are NOT with the BATF, I still think most of these "80%" receivers are actually more like 95%, they really ARE pushing things a lot of the time. OTOH, the Biden BATF's regulation was pushing things in the opposite direction, taken literally they'd be calling 5% receivers "firearms".
Biden's people were trying to go after something like the Ghost Mill, that actually starts with nothing but a rectangular billet, and then does ALL the machining. They really wanted to make hobby guns disappear entirely.
"I'll remind you"
No need, I'm older than you are, and remember those days 🙂
"All surfaces of the receiver necessary for its functioning must be produced by the end user, but features of only cosmetic significance may already be complete."
That actually sounds pretty reasonable; raw forgings OK, 80% receivers not. Not sure about say die forgings/cast/injection molded where some of the functional bits might get done as part of the casting/forging/molding. For example, what about the pic rail on the front of a lot of modern pistols, which is generally molded to final form.
I also wonder when someone comes up with some design optimized to get around whatever the definition is. The bottom line is that a pretty large majority likes the idea of background checks for commercial sales, and so isn't going to be happy with any system or rule that lets anyone order a not-a-gun and trivially make it into a gun.
I don't think the rail is actually functionally necessary for it to be a working gun, you just hang accessories on it. So I wouldn't count it.
I've sometimes wondered, just as a logic game, about a jigsaw puzzle receiver, where three companies, A, B, and C, individually manufacture objects which, though complete in themselves, are not by themselves functioning receivers. But you buy one of each, slide them together, and drive in a standard pin sourced from company D, and you have a working receiver.
Say the original design was produced and distributed free by some guy who gets none of the proceeds...
I don't see how, under the law, any of those individual parts can be treated as a firearm. But I'm sure the courts would find a way to rationalize it anyway. Because they have a goal in mind, and they're not going to let a bit of logic or text stop them from reaching it.
The more interesting case is the Ghost mill. It is a small desktop CNC mill that comes already programmed to convert rectangular billets into complete receivers.
In itself it is just a tool, and can be used for general machining purposes.
The billets are just rectangular billets of aluminum, no more receiver-like than they are like anything else. Use the right program, and the Ghost Mill will make them into just about anything you want, it doesn't have to be a gun part.
But put in the billet, select the receiver you want, and it does the work, no particular skill needed.
I don't think the law as written reaches it, but it IS what the Biden BATF were really after here, it is what really scared them.
"I don't see how, under the law, any of those individual parts can be treated as a firearm."
The rule seems to be the ATF gets to pick one part that is the gun. Sometimes the lower (AR), sometimes the upper (FAL), sometimes the 'fire control unit'. So I think the ATF would pick one of the three parts.
"The bottom line is that a pretty large majority likes the idea of background checks for commercial sales, and so isn't going to be happy with any system or rule that lets anyone order a not-a-gun and trivially make it into a gun."
That's more or less what I'm saying: We were kind of fooled by Heller and Bruen, because the Court was dealing there with extreme outlier gun control laws. We let their reaction to totally over the top gun laws fool us into thinking that the Court actually shared our concern for the 2nd amendment, and objected to gun control in principle, valued the 2nd amendment. Bruen was certainly written as a principled objection to gun control.
They don't. The Court's majority LIKES gun control laws, and has no intention at all of restoring our rights to anything like what we enjoyed prior to the 1968 GCA, let alone before the NFA. They're just policing the outliers, the jurisdictions they think have gone too far.
And they're not even very excited about doing that, they'll only do it when they have no way of avoiding doing it. because, again, they LIKE gun control. Principle may drag them kicking and screaming into striking some of it down, but only if they can't avoid it.
We'll win this at the voting booth, or not at all, because there's basically no chance of a Court that would fully uphold the 2nd amendment. This is probably as good as the Court gets, right now.
Apologies again for being unclear, the 'large majority' is of the population at large, not the court.
(I think that poll is kind of a high water mark, I think 70 to 80% is a more common result, but I can't recall one less than 50%)
Eh, the polls and the Polls seem to disagree here; Gun control does enormously better in public opinion polling than it does in actual votes.
The dirty little secret of public opinion polling, (Actually, they've got a lot of them...) is that just because somebody will give you an opinion about something if you ask them, doesn't mean they HAVE an opinion. They'll just make one up at the spot, whatever they think is expected, if they don't care about a topic.
So, when it comes to people who actually CARE about gun control, most are opposed. But if you just ask people, without requiring them to lift a finger to do anything, most say they're in favor, because the general media culture leads them to think they should favor it. So they say they favor it, just as a matter of protective coloration.
That's why so few states actually adopt these gun control measures, while concealed carry reform spread across the country. Real public opinion and polled public opinion aren't the same.
CCW laws are indeed generally liberalizing (i.e. becoming more permissive), and were doing so long before Bruen. But the tide on background checks is running the other way.
Has any state dropped a UBC requirement?
States CAN'T drop the federal background check requirement, it's federal, not state, law. The most they can do is bypass it with some other system which also requires a background check.
"States CAN'T drop the federal background check requirement"
Sigh. "UBC" means Universal Background Check, which are state level requirements over and above the federal requirements. The federal requirements only apply to commercial or interstate sales, not sales or gifts between private people. And the number of states imposing those additional requirements keeps climbing.
Thanks for clarifying that; I haven't actually bought a gun since the 90's.
I think what's actually going on is a bifurcation between the majority of states that are getting increasingly pro-gun in their policies, and a small minority of states that reacted to Heller and Bruen by doubling down on their hostility to gun ownership.
"small minority of states"
I dunno if I'd call 23 to 27 states a small minority. And that number seems to be going up, not down.
Dont bring facial challenges they are (and should be) exceedingly hard to win. You have to show a law is unconstitutional in *all* its applications.
The buy build polymer shoot kits are very easy to assemble ("readily"). I blame polymer80, and the plaintiffs for bringing this lawsuit.
Stop bringing facial challenges, the results are predictable.
Also I'll say it: a brace is a stock. We got lucky on this, I think. Yes, I would like to see NFA repealed, but its not going to happen through lawfare.
NFA is a tax, so repeal it though the reconciliation process. I think we could get suppressors and SBRs de-taxed, at least.