The Volokh Conspiracy
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Harvard Law School v. Vermeule
Dueling letters from 90+ members of the HLS faculty and Adrian Vermeule
Yesterday, more than ninety members of the Harvard Law School faculty issued a statement concerning the rule of law:
We are privileged to teach and learn the law with you. We write to you today—in our individual capacities—because we believe that American legal precepts and the institutions designed to uphold them are being severely tested, and many of you have expressed to us your concerns and fears about the present moment. Each of us brings different, sometimes irreconcilable, perspectives to what the law is and should be. Diverse viewpoints are a credit to our school. But we share, and take seriously, a commitment to the rule of law: for people to be equal before it, and for its administration to be impartial. That commitment is foundational to the whole legal profession, and to the special role that lawyers play in our society. As the Model Rules of Professional Conduct provide: "A lawyer is … an officer of the legal system and a public citizen having special responsibility for the quality of justice."
The rule of law is imperiled when government leaders:
• single out lawyers and law firms for retribution based on their lawful and ethical representation of clients disfavored by the government, undermining the Sixth Amendment;
• threaten law firms and legal clinics for their lawyers' pro bono work or prior government service;
• relent on those arbitrary threats based on public acts of submission and outlays of funds for favored causes; and
• punish people for lawfully speaking out on matters of public concern.
While reasonable people can disagree about the characterization of particular incidents, we are all acutely concerned that severe challenges to the rule of law are taking place, and we strongly condemn any effort to undermine the basic norms we have described.
On our own campus and at many other universities, international students have reported fear of imprisonment or deportation for lawful speech and political activism. Whatever we might each think about particular conduct under particular facts, we share a conviction that our Constitution, including its First Amendment, was designed to make dissent and debate possible without fear of government punishment. Neither a law school nor a society can properly function amidst such fear.
We reaffirm our commitment to the rule of law and to our roles in teaching and upholding the precepts of a fair and impartial legal system.
To be sure, this statement was not issued in the name of Harvard University, or the law school. But this statement was signed by a significant portion of the faculty. At quick glance, a few names are missing: co-blogger Steve Sachs, Jack Goldsmith, and Adrian Vermeule, among others. Quite fittingly, Vermeule has written a response.
Vermeule identifies a problem: how are students who agree with President Trump's policies to approach professors who have castigated Trump as antithetical to the rule of law?
Among you, the students of Harvard Law School, there is a surprisingly large and intellectually powerful contingent who are conservative in some sense or other, many of whom support the current President and the legal policies of his administration. What exactly are you supposed to think when an overwhelming supermajority of the faculty, although purporting to speak "in their individual capacities," jointly condemn those policies? You might be forgiven for wondering if you will get a fair shake during your time at the law school. Perhaps that concern will turn out to be objectively warranted, or perhaps it won't. But the concern in itself is entirely legitimate, and as the collective letter speaks to the "fears" of other students without asking whether those fears are objectively justifiable, it seems only fair to do the same in the other direction.
The professors are certainly concerned how students who agree with them will react. But what about students who disagree with them? Their concerns simply are not as important.
Vermeule writes further that these signatories were silent during breaches over the past four years:
Where were the letter's signatories when federal prosecutors took the unprecedented step of bringing dozens of criminal charges against a former president, who also happened to be the leading electoral opponent of the then-incumbent president? Where were the signatories when Jeff Clark, Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, and other lawyers were disbarred or threatened with disbarment, and indeed prosecuted, for their representation of President Trump? Was this not a threat to the rule of law? Where were the signatories when radical activists menaced Supreme Court Justices in their homes, or when a mob hammered on the doors of the Supreme Court itself? Where were the signatories when the Senate Minority Leader shouted to an angry crowd outside the Court that "I want to tell you Gorsuch, I want to tell you Kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind and you will pay the price. You won't know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions"? Were these not also literal threats to the rule of law?
As I recall, Professor Tribe, one of the signatories, urged President Biden to renew the eviction moratorium even after the Supreme Court clearly stated it was unlawful. Was this a breach of the rule of law?
Another one of the signatories of the Harvard letter is Richard Fallon. I think Fallon's joining this letter is especially striking in light of his important work on the problems with scholar amicus briefs. More than a decade ago, Fallon wrote that "many professors compromise their integrity by joining such briefs too promiscuously." He urged "standards that professors should insist upon before signing amicus briefs that they do not write." Fallon was and is right.
In December 2016, I discussed the relationship between scholar amicus briefs and scholar letters:
Fallon's critique about scholars' briefs applies equally to scholars' letters. Here, the 1,100 professors who signed the letter had absolutely no role in its drafting. Take it or leave it. To the extent that they all agree with every sentence of the letter, then the statement must be so anodyne that it adds little beyond what the New York Times editorial page has already said. Imagine an actual law school workshop attended by over 1,000 professors–would anything be agreed upon?!. Law professors would never add their name to a law review article they didn't write. Why are scholars' letters any different?
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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Vermeule proves too much in his concern for students, because that same concern would be justified any time a professor makes a political statement. Indeed, one might wonder whether Blackman's students who don't support Trump or agree with his policies will get a fair shake in his courses.
Blackman's reputation as a professor is that he is extremely fair. He condescends to everyone, snarks at questions but answers them helpfully, and is demanding but not difficult. His con law curriculum is solid and his lectures are out on YouTube. As a property professor he had a reputation as a wannabe con law professor that neither knew nor cared very much about property law, but as a con law professor he's found his niche.
People are complicated. Blackman has the worst political opinions imaginable - I consider him to be evil - and frequently puts out terrible legal takes but he's a very good professor and an asset to his school.
Good to know. Happily I've never had to consider the pedagogical qualities of professors at South Texas College of Law. Is there any reason to believe that professors at Harvard are less professional?
In the mind of conservatives, yes. If you are conservative you are honorable and impartial. If you aren’t a conservative, it’s impossible to be honorable and impartial. That’s what Paleocon Grievance Culture is all about. And it’s the dominant culture of the right these days.
Bullshite...
There are a few honest leftists.
Q.E. fucking D.
0.02%
"Is there any reason to believe that professors at Harvard are less professional?"
No, of course not. Blackman just likes to tell us periodically that the grapes he used to want are probably sour anyway.
Prof. Vermeule's whole point is that the original letter was "a [partisan] political statement" (as he put it, "a sectarian document cast as an appeal to high principle").
So what? Is there a presumption that every law school professor who makes a partisan political statement is thereby demonstrated to be incapable of treating fairly students who disagree with him or her? How would Blackman fare under such a per se rule?
I think Prof. Vermeule is missing the main point of the statement, and is himself being the tendentious one. The statement is not about "policies" of the administration but specific actions the administration has taken that don't just undermine the rule of law but ignore it entirely. I sympathize with truly conservative students at Harvard, but I can't see how this letter is anything principled conservative students would find objectionable.
If Prof. Vermeule can defend the President's retribution, threats and punishment of private law firms because he childishly does not like what they are doing, the professor could have offered that. Instead, he deflects, dodges and weaves his way to more favorable terrain.
It is politicians I expect to avoid the hard questions; professors should welcome them and offer their own, better answers. But what the Trump administration is doing now to the rule of law is something I can't steel man my way through. It is unconstitutional, petty and vile. The Harvard Law faculty has done many, many things that are reprehensible, and which conservative students have valid complaints about. Not here. They have for once said something right. I see nothing in Prof. Vermeule's response that suggests otherwise.
Closer to home at Harvard, in 2019, a Harvard professor was removed as faculty dean, because he represented Harvey Weinstein.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/11/us/harvard-law-professor-ronald-sullivan-loses-deanship-harvey-weinstein/index.html#:~:text=A%20Harvard%20University%20law%20professor,Sullivan%20Jr.&text=The%20couple%20are%20the%20first%20black%20faculty%20deans%20in%20Harvard's%20history.
How many of the current signatories had anything to say about that?
Your linked article implies, but does not say or support what you claim.
The ACLU seems to think that's why he was removed.
Well, good on the ACLU for communicating better than CNN.
ACLU, another MAGA outfit. (For those who need it, /sarc)
The hypocrisy and moral cowardice of the legal professoriate extends across the political spectrum. If Diogenes went to law school, he'd still be looking.
Someone would have stolen his lamp.
how are students who agree with President Trump's policies to approach professors who have castigated Trump as antithetical to the rule of law?
By leaving Harvard Law School, because such a person has no business aspiring to membership of the bar.
Quite true.
You can't as Josh does, engage in "whataboutism" without looking at the facts on each side, which are glaringly different.
Fuck off, European.
Fuck off, American. At least Martin ain't poisoning his own country
Hobie-stank got his Hobie-panties in a wad, your Homies shit on your porch again?
"By leaving Harvard Law School, because such a person has no business aspiring to membership of the bar."
Which is why we should kill all the lawyers."
Schmucks like you do not realize how closely the current situation resembles the runup to the American Revolution, that the lawyers and judges are the new British authorities.
“Which is why we should kill”
What in the ever-living fuck is wrong with you?
He's been wishcasting violence on his political opponents for years.
Garbage person with garbage values.
The famous "Let's kill all the lawyers" line was said by Dick the Butcher (the henchman of Jack Cade, who is leading a rebellion against King Henry in Act IV, Scene II of Shakespeare’s Henry VI, Part II:
Cade, a pretender to the throne, hopes to destabilize the existing social order, and the line serves as a tongue-in-cheek recognition that lawyers, by upholding the law and administering justice, are impediments to anarchy. In the context of the play, the line highlights the subversive nature of Cade’s rebellion and the chaos that ensues when legal structures are undermined. https://nosweatshakespeare.com/quotes/famous/lets-kill-all-the-lawyers/
It is no surprise that such an aspiring dictator as Donald Trump wants to upend the rule of law.
Thanks -- a lot of people misinterpret that quote.
In Med School I had a patient who was sentenced to die in Ali-bama’s Electric Chair(Judge Smayles didn’t want to give him the chair, felt he owed it to him)
Common duct stone, and pre-laparoscopic days so you got the big “Chevron” Incision (imagine an upside down “V” below your ribcage, oh wait, did I just describe a “Chevron”?
Guy got the same pain meds as anyone else, was actually a nicer guy than our regular Gomers, in fact his Prison Guards were bigger A-holes than him.
Frank
If it seems like almost yesterday that our MAGAns were howling about how law firms refusing to represent Trump and his minions was a great betrayal of the principle that everyone deserves to be represented it’s because it was. Now they cheer Trump using the power of the federal government to punish firms that dare represent clients they don’t like.
Consistency is, of course, impossible for minions of the Mad King to achieve.
How dare a category of people that you label MAGAns not all agree with each other!
Now that you've added your evasive 'squirrel' comment. Care to address what Malika actually said?
Nah, I’m talking specifically about the ones who agreed when it was Trump and his minions they thought targeted but now that it’s people they don’t like are changing their tune, not those principled MAGAns riding unicorns.
No criticism for the anti-Trump folks who were inconsistent the other way?
I haven't looked followed it closely but I'll assume it's bad.
You don't appear to have looked at either side of this issue.
Your comment was just, darn those guys on the other side who took inconsistent positions, whoever they are!
I prefer a more evenhanded approach. Darn those guys on either side who took inconsistent positions!
Yeah, you're real evenhanded. Lol.
I note you didn't establish your own consistency.
Which side do you come down on for the OP and MAGA going after law firms?
I haven't looked followed it closely but I'll assume it's bad.
Weasel.
Speaking of consistency, how do you reconcile your lack of concern about students being punished for saying that there are two genders with your outrage about students experiencing visa consequences for supporting terrorists?
There are ways to distinguish university from HS, but who says I'm not concerned about students being punished for speech in school?
I think Tinker sets a good standard and plenty of school punishments go well beyond that and that's bad.
So I asked you first, and I answered your attempt to turn it back on my. I notice you STILL haven't answered for your own consistency.
Weasel.
Speaking for myself, not Sarcastro, I don't think I'm guilty of what you claim.
I think I've been a reasonably consistent defender of free speech rights, though I suppose other s may think differently.
"Where were the signatories when Jeff Clark, Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, and other lawyers were disbarred or threatened with disbarment, and indeed prosecuted, for their representation of President Trump?"
Disbarment & criminal prosecution versus not getting a gig.
Do you not see a difference here???
"Jeff Clark, Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman"
Ain't them the guys that drug private citizens, companies and the courts through false allegations that each of them recanted as false in open court and thusley were disbarred for abuse of the legal system?
Yes. To Trumpkins, doing disbarrable things doesn’t count if it’s a Trump lawyer.
Even I know that the level of dishonesty and false assertions by Trump’s lawyers falls squarely into the “likely to be disbarred” category. And I never went to law school, so I was never told specifically what could get me disbarred. These clowns were, yet still did it anyway.
“Rudy Giuliani”
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: you people get the heroes you deserve
Please. I beg you. Die on Mt. Jeffrey Clark. Smart thermostats!
“Well, Pat, that’s what the Insurrection Act is for.”
He’s even worse than Eastman, in my opinion.
And let’s not pretend for one second that this playbook isn’t going to be rolled out again 2 or 4 years hence
"The rule of law is imperiled when government leaders:
• single out lawyers and law firms for retribution based on their lawful and ethical representation of clients disfavored by the government"
I am old enough to remember the concerted campaign to disbar any lawyer who represented Trump or his corporation during the civil and criminal lawfare waged against them.
Turnabout is fair play. I hope it hurts.
Kleppe is too dumb to see that that sword has two edges.
“Turnabout is fair play. I hope it hurts.”
Shorter Kleppe: “I have no principles!”
One good test of character is whether you view your opponents’ bad behavior as an opportunity to be better, or a license to be even worse. The real shame isn’t so much the extent to which so many have been weighed in the balance and found wanting, but how much they’re not even embarrassed about it.
Right on. Call it Trump Derangement Syndrome.
One true test of intelligence is realizing that you have to play by the same rules that the other side does.
He was talking about character, not intelligence. I imagine you were confused given your lack of both.
“we suffered first, and therefore anything we do to make others suffer will always be justified”
re: "I have no principles!"
from Prof. Vermeule's open letter:
The real issue is that the collective letter, although no doubt offered in good faith by its signatories, is shot through with selective ideological blindness. It is, I am sorry to say, a sectarian document cast as an appeal to high principle. Let us here ignore all other political controversies in recent years, and confine ourselves to those directly involving lawyers, judges, and legal representation: Where were the letter’s signatories when federal prosecutors took the unprecedented step of bringing dozens of criminal charges against a former president, who also happened to be the leading electoral opponent of the then-incumbent president? Where were the signatories when Jeff Clark, Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, and other lawyers were disbarred or threatened with disbarment, and indeed prosecuted, for their representation of President Trump? Was this not a threat to the rule of law? Where were the signatories when radical activists menaced Supreme Court Justices in their homes, or when a mob hammered on the doors of the Supreme Court itself? Where were the signatories when the Senate Minority Leader shouted to an angry crowd outside the Court that “I want to tell you Gorsuch, I want to tell you Kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind and you will pay the price. You won’t know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions”? Were these not also literal threats to the rule of law?
Now, of course, one can always say that “well those prosecutions or disbarments or protests were actually warranted, you see”; and the collective letter is careful to insert the qualifier that it only defends “lawful and ethical” representation. But the very question at issue is what is to count as “lawful and ethical,” and who gets to define what those terms mean. And that is what makes the ideological selectivity of the letter both painfully obvious and deeply corrosive of the shared ideal of the rule of law to which it appeals. Two can play at the game of ideological definition, but when they do, both will lose.
Not to get off topic, but how is it that you ended up leaving that universe and ending up in ours? What are some of the other difference from your home timeline? This seems like big stuff!
Dude, if the US government tried to disbar or extort firms that wanted to represent Trump, I'd love to see a citation. What? You got none? Then run along little Kleppe
Actions taken against Trump's lawyers have been covered extensively, on this very site.
Yes, and the ones who did things that get lawyers disbarred got disbarred. Shocking.
Are you really going to argue that Rudy and his merry band of idiots didn’t do things that get lawyers disbarred?
They never respond when pinned down. I'm even mad at myself for responding. No reasoning with children
Don't blindly handwaive, Kleppe - this is load bearing to your posts here. What specifically has been concerted campaign you're talking about?
“ I am old enough to remember the concerted campaign to disbar any lawyer who represented Trump or his corporation during the civil and criminal lawfare waged against them”
No you aren’t, because that never happened except in the whiny, grievance-obsessed Trumpkin fever dreams.
Trump lawyers who did disbarrable things were, to no one’s surprise, disbarred. Maybe they shouldn’t have ignored that part of their legal training.
I didn’t go to Hah-vud Law or even undergrad, just a simple Country Sawbones with an Auburn Poultry Science degree, but I’ve seen “The Paper Chase” a million times, and like Deniro in “This Boys Life” I know a thing or two about a thing or two,
That being said,
If the rule you followed led you to this, of what use was the rule?
Frank
“I know a thing or two about a thing or two,”
Not including third grader writing skills…
OK, so YOU “show your work” (always hated that BS if I get it right who cares how I did it?)
What is “3rd Grade” in my post?
And I’m fruent in 2 languages (OK my Engrish is debatable) and can order a beer and ask where the men’s room is in Hebrew, what languages do you speak, at any grade level
Where I went to third grade they taught basic mechanics of writing like punctuation and capitalization. Sorry you missed that.
You know What I
Mean?)
You mean “Nome Sane?” See, I speak Jive, OK I’ve explained this for like the Eleventy Bullionth time, German capitalizes nouns, it’s my Mother(s) tongue, so when in doubt I capitalize, also as a Southpaw, my cursive was as illegible as DaVinci’s (another Lefty) thanks to the Right/Supremercist Ed-Jew-ma-cation, so nobody told me I was doing stuff wrong, because they couldn’t read it (actually a “Feature” and not a bug Medical/legally)and does it matter if it’s “Blow Me” or “blow me”??
Fortran
Yankee
I was hoping beyond hope that Harvard Law was going to state that rogue judges are a threat to the rule of law.
I guess if Brandon was abused the way that Trump is, they would have said that, which means that this is all bullshyte.
Harvard Law went into the toilet 30 years ago and it's time to bulldoze it flat. They really want a third civil war, don't they.
Oh boy.
When was the second one?
1861-1865.
Whats so Civil bout’ Wah anyway?
FFS. How the law school reacts to students who support Trump's actions has no relevance to the opinion expressed in the letter that Trump has run roughshod over the rule of law. Perhaps even worse, comparing the actions taken against Trump, Clark, Eastman and Giuliani to Trump's actions against law firms is excusing Jan 6. Sick shit.
How much longer are you going to keep waving the bloody shirt?
Vermeule waived it.
Let’s not forget that Adrian Vermeule is a fervent supporter of “common-good constitutionalism”, which is about as theocratic and anti-American as it gets.
Of course Josh Blackman thinks he is a credible source of rebuttal in a discussion of the rule of law, since they both have disdain for it.
Once Vermeule turns to what he calls “the real issue,” all he has is what-aboutism, and he mostly fails at that.
Following the law as written, rather than making a special exception not in the law written by Congress saying that former officeholder and candidates for office have legal immunity, does not undermine the rule of law.
These lawyer were disciplined for ethical violations, as they should have been regardless of who the client was. (Indeed, Jeff Clark never represented Trump.)
As far as I know, Supreme Court Justices were never menaced in their homes (though there were protests outside their homes).
There was a protest outside the Supreme Court where some protesters banged on the doors before being forced away from the doors by police. Hardly a threat to the rule of law.
Schumer continued:
Giving Vermeule the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that he figured it was clear from what he quoted that Schumer was talking about Republicans paying a political price, it’s hard to see how this can be construed as a “literal threat to the rule of law.”
Vermeule continues:
State legislatures and Congress get to decide what is lawful, and the ethical obligations of lawyers are typically written into state law. If you don’t think that legislatures should be defining these, then you are squarely in opposition to the rule of law.
Complaining about "what-aboutism" in a discussion about the rule of law is pretty fucking oblivious...
Forget it, Josh, It's Harvard Law; no one cares.
Lots of Skulls of mush there (ht Prof Kingsfield)
Yes, because graduates of Harvard Law aren’t considered any good, right?
They shouldn't be and soon won't be.
Not much of a believer in markets, I see.
ah lame whataboutism
Where were the letter's signatories when federal prosecutors took the unprecedented step of bringing dozens of criminal charges against a former president, who also happened to be the leading electoral opponent of the then-incumbent president?
Paul Clement, a conservative, with the support of Eugene Volokh & Ed Whelan has explained the problem of just one of the things listed regarding Trump (about law firms).
How is this comparable to bringing criminal charges, backed up by facts, against someone who broke the law?
The implication it was a political witch hunt ("also happened be") is not backed up by the facts either, including evidence put forth before he ran & the fact a special effort was made to appoint an independent person to investigate (which delayed things but for apparently no value since the same old allegation is still there).
Where were the signatories when Jeff Clark, Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, and other lawyers were disbarred or threatened with disbarment, and indeed prosecuted, for their representation of President Trump? Was this not a threat to the rule of law?
The general "other lawyers" is also bullshit coyness since the specific efforts were against those who did things that warranted disbarrment. Not everyone who represented him, including multiple people now in the Trump Justice Department.
How is protecting the integrity of the law by investigating and disbarring those that violate it a threat to the rule of law?
===
This sort of bullshit underlines how far into the weeds these Trump support efforts are. People here who support Trump, who repeatedly oppose liberal principles, who say Trump > Kamala Harris (or surely couldn't manage to vote for her, realizing the alternative), and more understand Trump and his supporters are so ridiculously wrong that they speak out.
Of course, others oppose Trump and Trumpism in general, but there is also that subset speaking out against such bullshit.
https://reason.com/volokh/2025/03/30/harvard-law-school-v-vermeule/?comments=true#comment-10982381
As I recall, Professor Tribe, one of the signatories, urged President Biden to renew the eviction moratorium even after the Supreme Court clearly stated it was unlawful. Was this a breach of the rule of law?
Checking, it looks like Tribe tried -- like lawyers do -- to argue that it could be renewed by making another legal argument. So, no, Prof Whataboutism.
So, all those lawyers who were cancelled for opposing mandatory vaccines, who argue against multiple genders or against homosexual marriage should receive apologies, right?
Which lawyers were those?
Vermeule identifies a problem: how are students who agree with President Trump's policies to approach professors who have castigated Trump as antithetical to the rule of law?
Horseshit.
Any time a professor expresses an opinion the same "problem" potentially exists. The answer to the question is that they are supposed to approach the professor the same way they approach any other, and that the professor is supposed to not let the disagreement affect his willingness to help, or his grading of the student's work.
"how are students who agree with President Trump's policies to approach professors who have castigated Trump as antithetical to the rule of law?"
This seems like a weird thing to worry about. How is any student supposed to react to any professor who disagrees with them about what the law is in any area?
Presumably if it were the feared Ilhan Omar administration and they were working to imposed the dreaded Sharia law as the law of the land and a bunch of Harvard Law School professors wrote that this was antithetical to the law there would not be a concern her for the poor students who agree with President Omar.
Now, the professors signing that statement may be right or wrong or somewhere between, but whether the students agree with them isn't really relevant.
But there should be plenty of personal experience here. Presumably the vast majority of Blackman's students disagree with him on the vast majority of his views on the law. So how do they approach him (other than confusion about their bad luck)?
"Imagine an actual law school workshop attended by over 1,000 professors–would anything be agreed upon?!"
10 years ago, before Trump came down that elevator, no law professor would say that the things cited in the Harvard letter were lawful. They would be largely considered crazy law exam hypotheticals that would never happen.
Isn't Vermeule's argument exactly what the woke likes to use as an argument for why people with conservative opinions should not be allowed to speak out?
NOrmal folks laugh with contempt at those stupid frauds.
Okay with Vermeule though.
REASON just published an article on the great human suffering of homelessness and not a tear shed
""You combine the increase in family homelessness and the increase in sheltered homelessness, it looks like this is overwhelmingly driven by the migrant surge," says Judge Glock, director of research for the Manhattan Institute.'
Harvard , home of heartless bastards with the addition of hypocrisy.