The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Some Questions About An Autodidactic Autopen
In the abstract, the use of an autopen is not problematic. But in practice, there may be serious problems. Consider a few scenarios.
First, imagine the President has a stroke, and is unable to move any parts of his body. He cannot even pick up a pen. But the President retains all of his mental faculties and can communicate instructions orally. The President instructs his trusted aide to use an autopen to sign a bill, pardon, or executive order. Would anyone think that use of an autopen is problematic? I suppose an argument could be made that the enfeebled President is unable to discharge his duties, and should be removed under the 25th Amendment, but I am doubtful that step is necessary.
Second, imagine that the President is about to take an international trip, and he knows that Congress is about to pass an important bill that must go into effect right away. The President instructs his trusted aide to use an autopen to sign the bill as soon as it arrives at the White House. Would anyone think that use of an autopen is problematic? There was once the thought that the President should not leave the country. And in some states, when the Governor leaves the state, the Lieutenant Governor can exercise the powers of the Governor. But under our Constitution, the President can, and indeed is expected to engage in foreign diplomacy, and will often be away from the Capital when important bills are passed. Why should important legislation remain un-enacted because the bill cannot be brought to the President quickly enough?
Third, imagine that the President is about to take an international trip, and Congress is debating a key provision of an important bill. It is unclear how the final bill will be structured. The President instructs his aide to make a judgment: if the aide thinks the final bill is consistent with the President's preferences, he should use the autopen to sign bill; if the aide thinks the final bill is inconsistent with the President's preferences, he should use the autopen to veto the bill. This example strikes me as problematic, as the President is delegating to an aide the discretion to sign or veto a bill. Here, there are no clear instructions, but rather a judgment call--a call the President has to make.
Fourth, imagine that the President tells his Pardon Attorney to grant any pardons that the Pardon Attorney thinks are consistent with the President's preferences, and authorizes the Pardon Attorney to use the autopen to sign the pardon. The President never even sees the pardon applications. (I thank my colleague Seth Barrett Tillman for this example.) I do not think the pardon power is delegable in this context. The President must make the individualized determination for each pardon. Now it might be the case that an aide simply puts a piece of paper in front of the President, and the President signs it without reading it--perhaps based on an aide's summary. But that signature is prima facie evidence that the President intended to grant the pardon. With an autopen, by contrast, that prima facie evidence the President intended to grant the pardon is not present. In my hypothetical, the instruction given to the Pardon Attorney rebuts any presumption of presidential determination.
Fifth, imagine that the President is clearly suffering from senility. He is capable of reading from a script, and can sign a paper placed in front of him, but he has no capacity to know what he is doing. Imagine further that his cabinet is unwilling to invoke the 25th Amendment for various reasons. Given these facts, a number of documents are released from the White House signed with an autopen, including statutes, pardons, and executive orders. There is no clear record of whether the President instructed aides to use the autopen on any particular document. The President never made personally any public statements about whether the authorized the signing of any particular document. There may be some press statements attributed to the President, but it is not clear the President authorized such statements. Would this use of the autopen be valid? Is there something like an enrolled bill rule, where a bill that has the President's signature is presumed valid? Or could we consider the President's underlying senility?
Sixth, imagine that the President suffers from a stroke, and the status of his medical condition is kept secret from the public. Given these facts, a number of documents are released from the White House signed with an autopen, including statutes, pardons, and executive orders. We later learn that the President may have been in a coma when some of these documents were signed, and his wife (let's call her Edith Wilson) instructed aides to use an autopen to sign those documents. Would those bills, pardons, or executive orders be valid? Could they be collaterally challenged?
I think the use of the autopen raises some very difficult questions.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
My memory says Presidents going into routine surgery have invoked some amendment to put the VP in charge for a short time.
Which can be quite humorous, esp when they don’t belong to the same party.
"I’m in control here."
-Al Haig
In none of those examples is the Autopen relevant. It is only the tool used to sign documents, a stamp, a wax seal, or an aid just signing the presidents name are all legally the same. The key is did the authorization come from the President or no.
Basically agree. The autopen just illustrates what has become common practice in the White House.
It may be common practice. But it only can be used to show that someone approved signing the document, not that the President did, or even authorized, the signing of the document.
In the case where there's any real concern over the question, you just ask the President/former President.
If he dies, you do what you would do with anything and review witnesses and other evidence, to make a best-possible determination.
If the standard is perfection, then all we have is chaos for perfection is a fiction.
Biden has had DAYS to say he did all of the pardons.
He has been silent.
Also, none of the examples involve anything autodidactic.
Yeah -- I want sure if JB was making a joke I don't get, or if he just does not know what "autodidactic" means.
The issue of the autopen has arisen due to reports that an aide signed several documents without Biden's knowledge or authorization, 6 of which were signed when biden was in the virgin islands in late dec 2024.
Apparently DOJ has credible information. If so, then criminal offense, forgery, etc.
If Josh thinks these are 'difficult queations', I envy those taking exams in his classes.
I don't envy his students at all.
Imagine sitting for an exam and trying to figure out whether to do a standard legal analysis based on facts, logic, and legal precedent, or trying to anticipate what weird tendentious analysis the professor is looking for.
Imagine someone who thinks Josh can't write differently for blog posts and exam questions. Boy howdy they'd be a miserable student!
You'd flunk. He did not call his questions difficult, only serious, and then at the end, said there are difficult questions.
Your reading comprehension is piss poor for a legal blog.
'I think the use of the autopen raises some very difficult questions'. Straight from the post.
When people are wilfully misconstruing what facts actually exist it's a bit harder than clear cut examples for demonstration purposes.
What is a copy of the bill? A bill can be scanned, emailed to the President, printed out and signed in person. The Constitution required a bill be signed. It does not say the same about a pardon.
So, the president has authorized his aide to auto-pen sign a bill while he travels outside the country. But, midflight, the president changes his mind and wishes to exercise his veto power?
In that case their is nothing the President can do because when they are traveling they have no way of communicating back to the White House. Maybe he could send a telegram but who knows if it will get there in time.
If it's Trump he can "un-sign it in my mind", just as he declassified that bathroom reading at Mar-a-Lago "in his mind". Strange that Josh doesn't discuss this practice, which, because Trump said it, means it's viable, at least to Josh.
Good point, which I think highlights the main confusion with all this. Josh, and others, seem to be confusing :
1. What acts are necessary to legally complete something, and
2. What constitutes adequate proof that those acts were performed ?
In theory a verbal or even a mental pardon might be adequate, eg the line might simply be the President’s unevidenced decision. But when it comes to evidence should the court simply take the President’s word for it ?
I doubt it. On the other hand the courts can enforce oral contracts, so there’s clearly a contrary view.
But that’s the thing - we can’t take Biden’s word for it, because he doesn’t remember. If this question had been asked of Bill Clinton, several months after leaving office, and he had said that he had authorized something, we would all pretty much believe him (as long as it didn’t involve illicit sex). In this case, we are talking about presuming or proving Biden’s willing and informed consent ABSENT confirmation by him.
The unreliable communication part reminds me of a famous thought experiment in Computer Science, the Two General's Problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Generals'_Problem
We have networking protocols designed to address this issue.
Doesn’t really matter. What is important is corroborating evidence, and esp if somewhat contemporaneous.
"when they are traveling they have no way of communicating back to the White House"
No, Molly. That situation is no consistent with U.S. declaratory nuclear policy. POTUS always has to be within communication.
Some thoughts, particularly on the first and second scenarios.
I've known people (including a relative or two) who have had strokes. I find the proposed first scenario of a stroke severe enough to cause total paralysis without impairing either cognitive function or the ability to communicate to be exceedingly implausible. This is exactly the kind of scenario in which the 25th amendment should be invoked.
On the second scenario: The President has to sign a lot of documents. I can understand the use of various signature proxies in general. However, I find the use of such proxies outside the immediate physical presence and supervision of the President to be troubling, particularly with today's technology.
On the second scenario in particular, the bill could be transmitted to the President, printed, signed, scanned, and transmitted back. I do not consider the use of an autopen or any other signature proxy, outside the President's physical presence in this scenario to be legitimate.
My grandfather learned to write cursive with his left hand when his right side was paralyzed at age 91. That's not total paralysis, but I can believe someone could have both hands paralyzed and still be mentally alert.
Besides, this is just a hypothetical, and lawyers thrive on hypotheticals, like engineers and their spherical cows.
"but I can believe someone could have both hands paralyzed and still be mentally alert."
True, but not as a result of a stroke. A stroke is the result of a burst blood vessel in the brain. You are not going to have serious symptoms from a stroke with zero cognitive impairment.
An autopen seems to me to be essentially the same idea as a seal.
Presumably there's loads of ancient precedent about seals - ie whether they are conclusive evidence of execution, or whether courts can permit argument about misuse of the seal.
I imagine there's also some history on how access to official seals, especially the King's, was controlled.
Is Blackman on the MAGA payroll, or does he do this for free?
Is there any evidence, whatsoever, that Biden did not knowingly and willfully pardon these people, for all the reasons that everyone at the time agreed that he was pardoning them?
Should we analyze every pardon ever signed for evidence of whether it was done with an autopen?
I love the dueling headlines on this.
MSNBC: Trump admits to using autopen
Fox: Trump never used an autopen for legally binding documents.
I'm pretty sure Blackman is just auditioning for a judicial appointment.
I used to think that being so shameless would be a disqualification, but with Trump it's a recommendation.
The shamelessness is the point.
Trump learned his lesson in the first term. Responsible qualified people who bend the knee end up enacting your agenda in a responsible qualified manner, which ends up resulting in outcomes like Trump not being able to rig or overturn the election.
So Trump is loading up on people who show they're not responsible, because when he asks them to do crazy stuff they'll actually follow through.
Josh needs to get a gig on a TV show so that Krasnov knows who he is. Could probably use some plastic surgery.
>Is there any evidence, whatsoever, that Biden did not knowingly and willfully pardon these people, for all the reasons that everyone at the time agreed that he was pardoning them?
Yes. Broaden your bubble. This controversy didn't come out of nowhere.
Provide your evidence or shut up.
I'm not responsible for your ignorance, nor am I your personal research assistant.
It literally did. Some MAGA outlet (Free Beacon?) wrote a story saying that a bunch of Biden EOs were signed via autopen. That's the entire genesis of this.
I thought that it was pardons. But in any case, they looked at a bunch of public documents supposedly signed by Biden, and found that almost all had actually been signed with an autopen. That has not been contested nor denied. That this was discovered by a group that opposed Biden, and supports Trump is irrelevant as to whether their findings were accurate.
It’s essentially opposition research, and it’s a mainstay of politics. Has been since at least our founding. It’s really no different from the Dems finding that Trump had paid off Stormy Daniels to keep quiet.
You're correct: it has not been contested or denied. It is also not interesting.
You Josh bashers are so blinded by your hatred for anything right of Stalin that you can't see the obvious: Josh likes the law. He's a legal junky. He plays fantasy Supreme Court for all I know.
I've learned more from his thought experiments than all you bitter old crows combined. He at least has thoughts to think about. All you wimps do is whine that he doesn't think like you.
Yes, that’s the problem.
I suppose there is one counter argument. If there's no public record of Biden personally authorizing the pardons, then that would be problematic.
An unsigned written statement, followed by a stack of autopen pardons is dubious.
At the same time, Biden hasn't contradicted them, either.
Of course there's the "small" problem of the questionability of Biden's mental competence.
So no bills were signed until the autopen came along? Personally, I can't get past the autopen question. 'To sign' and 'to affix a signature' are not synonymous. I don't care if it's convenient. An incompetent president - like Biden - can sign papers he doesn't understand, but first get rid of the autopen thing.
Then, a president who is paralyzed needs to be replaced. Where were Republicans in Congress while we watched an obviously mentally deficient president on their watch. That man was Commander in Chief and in control of our nuclear arsenal, and they were too busy to do anything about it.
An incompetent president - like Trump - can sign papers he doesn't understand,
Where "incompetent" means "I don't like".
In this case it means “has questionable reading skills and says all manner of absurd nonsense”.
Yes, Dan fits that description pretty well.
They are.
Does anyone think Trump physically signed thousands of pardons for January 6 defendants?
Did he have to? The Constitution doesn't limit pardons to individuals. There's a more solid argument that it requires pardons be for actual crimes or convictions, not "anything in the last ten years".
In his defense, Trump makes a big deal personally signing what he needs to personally sign. Pardons can cover lists of people, or maybe even classes of them, but so far, at least, he has wet signed every pardon, EO, etc of both his Presidencies. And almost always gotten photos or video of him signing.
Even in the second scenario I think the president's signature is invalid. It is the 21st century, communication happens instantaneously. When congress passes a bill, an aide at the white house can call or email the president and ask if the bill is to be signed, and if the president says 'yes', the aide can use the autopen, and that I think would be valid. That can happen no matter where in the world the president is. But the constitution does require the president to sign the bill after congress passes it, not before, so an instruction he gave an aide before passage of the bill cannot be a valid signature. And this is a good thing, as scenario 2 can very easily bleed into scenario 3.
The 25th Amendment is _the_ mechanism to declare a president "senile" or otherwise disabled and remove him. Since that's explicitly spelled out, all other mechanisms -- including ones you imagine -- are void. The hurdle to declaring a president incapacitated was intentionally set high, because the danger of scenarios you propose is outweighed by the danger of opportunists declaring the president senile (remember all the psychiatrists remotely diagnosing Trump?) and the danger of chaos from people disagreeing which orders are valid.
We wouldn’t be having this discussion of Biden had wet signed all those pardons, EOs, etc. he apparently didn’t, but instead someone apparently used an autopen to sign them.
Apparently!
There is technology today that the President can sign a document personally no matter where is in this world and that signed document would appear back in the White House within seconds with very few exceptions. If the President cannot read the document then the President CANNOT SIGN the document. So if the can read the document wherever he is he then can sign that same document!!!
READ THE DOCUMENT? Some of those go to thousands of pages. Congresspeople don't even read them.
I think the autopen question is irrelevant when it comes to statutes. Let's say that courts decided conclusively that the signature was invalid on every bill that Biden signed by autopen. The bills would still be valid laws because of the ten day rule. (I suppose there could be edge cases where one could claim congressional adjournment within the ten days prevented this.)
Ever since the invention of the fax machine, there is no reasonable argument for distance being a valid reason to use the autopen. The real gap in governance revealed by the Biden administration was the absence of any compulsory, independent assessment of the President's mental condition and competency. With the mimicry abilities of AI, you could have a President die in office with that fact being hidden from the people and media, and government continue with video appearances by the "President" and autopen orders coming at a brisk clip.
As a pragmatic matter, the best thing a President can do is to reduce the delegation of signature authority to writing. "Claire, The voting on Senate Bill 105 takes place this afternoon. If it is passed as currently written, please use the autopen to sign it into law."
Clearly demonstrate exactly what the President approved, when he approved it, and who the authority was given to.
If there is an autopen signature, perhaps the aide who uses it should - again, best practices - be required to sign as well. This is commonly done with Powers of Attorney.
If it is later found out at aides or staffers used the autopen without being given explicit approval by the President, for each specific bill or pardon, is that fraud? Rather than the legal mess of undoing the bill or the pardon, with all of the attendant malicious incentives, charge that person with some applicable fraud statute. Just because it's the President and the technology has a fancy name, doesn't mean you get to sign someone else's name to legally binding documents without explicit approval to do so.
If no staffers are willing to stick their necks out on the line, and business grinds to a halt because the mentally enfeebled President cannot give approval for the signatures, maybe that forces the XXV amendment issue.
While I appreciate the desire to write a linguistically clever headline, you’re using the term “autodidactic” wrong and it makes no sense here. None of your examples are of the autopen teaching itself to do things.
+1
I think it stems from a certain autoerotic tendency of thought…
The whole point of the signature requirement is to prevent the President from delegating his responsibilities. So no, he must not use the autopen to delegate his duties.
Do you have some basis for making this claim? Since the signature requirement doesn’t stop the president from delegating responsibilities it seems fairly unlikely, but I’m happy to be educated.
Long before the autopen was invented, people could put papers in front of people to sign quickly and misinform them about what they were about. Signatures could be forged. I don’t see that anything has really changed.
There is a rebuttable presumption of willing consent with wet signatures. This presumption can be, and often is rebutted, for example in probating wills. I argue below that this presumption should not apply to autopen signatures, at least in the situation we had, of a less than mentally competent President.
I think that we all know what happened. Pardons, EOs, and legislation were signed by an autopen using his form signature. Did he knowingly delegate those signings? And did he need to have done so for those pardons, etc, to have been valid?
As for pardons, Article II, § 2, ¶ 1 recites that “ The President … shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment”. Can that power be generally delegatable? No evidence, yet, that Biden knowingly actually did so, and many believe that the decision of whom to pardon cannot be delegated.
If no formal delegation of this power, presumably wet signed by Biden, can be found, then arguably each and every pardon (etc) issued would have to be individually authorized by POTUS. This can be done fairly satisfactorily with a wet signature. But with an autopen signature? There is a (rebuttable) presumption of correctness and consent when a wet signature is used. But what does an autopen signature indicate? That whoever utilized it had control over it. We don’t know, with the evidence presently available, whether or not Biden knowingly consented to those pardons (etc). Should we presume it? Normally, maybe. But there is evidence available that on several occasions, at least, Biden probably did not knowingly consent to the use of his autopen signature. And if the presumption of regularity/accuracy is rebutted, then presumably the burden of going forward would fall on the person attempting to enforce the pardon (etc).
I thought that Blackman’s alternative fact patterns were well done. He moves from a point where the autopen signatures are arguably valid, to a point where they probably aren’t, and invites us to undertake line drawing.
I thought that Blackman’s alternative fact patterns were well done. He moves from a point where the autopen signatures are arguably valid, to a point where they probably aren’t, and invites us to undertake line drawing.
Speaking of autopens, Donald Trump claims that he didn't sign the declaration necessary to invoke the Alien Enemies Act, and has no idea who did. Hmmm…
LOL:
“I don’t know when it was signed, because I didn’t sign it,” Trump told reporters before leaving the White House on Friday evening.
[...]
“We want to get criminals out of our country, number one, and I don’t know when it was signed because I didn’t sign it,” Trump said. “Other people handled it, but (Secretary of State) Marco Rubio has done a great job and he wanted them out and we go along with that. We want to get criminals out of our country.”
The proclamation invoking the Alien Enemies Act appears in the Federal Register with Trump’s signature at the bottom.
Well . . . all these snarky comments about Biden not knowing what he signed have to be deleted now. It's a worse situation where we have a President who is so out of touch with reality that he denies signing something which went out over his signature in a published document. Who is more mentally infirm? And who is more a danger to the country?
And to which man is this autopen "question" more relevant?
I am sure we'll get a post from Josh on this soon. He's definitely not going to ignore it and make a sour-grapes post about ACB's book.
The use of the auto-pen has some nuances. There's no Constitutional requirement that pardons actually be in writing. Technically speaking, a President can probably issue a pardon orally and it'd be effective. (Constitutional provision - Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 states in relevant part ". . . he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States" - no mention of how he should exercise that power.
As to executive orders, there is no Constitutional provision that specifically provides for them - it's just viewed as something inherent in the President's executive power and the requirement that he "take care that the Laws be faithfully executed."
There's no Constitutionally mandated requirement therefore that pardons or executive orders even need to be in writing or be signed. Signing them is just evidence that they were authorized by him. However, the pardon power and the power to issue executive orders still reside in the President and if it can be shown that either he wasn't the person who execised that power or that he was non compos mentis, then there could be a means of attacking the legitimacy of a given executive order or pardon. The only method I can think of attacking them would be to charge a pardoned person with a federal crime covered by the pardon or for a party harmed by an executive order to bring a case challenging the order as not effective for the outlined reasons.
However, as to legislation, the Constitution states: "Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it . . . If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it"
The Constitution clearly lays out that the President shall sign it - not that a proxy shall sign it or a machine shall sign it. SCOTUS ultimately would have to decide whether the auto-pen constitutes a President "signing" legislation.
If you're interested in the auto-pen issue, there's a good law review article by Syracuse law professor Terry L. Turnipseed - https://surface.syr.edu/lawpub/83/ . In that article Turnipseed argues that "The state of the law surrounding proxy signatures has remained amazingly constant through both English and American history. The proxy and the principal must be present together when a proxy signature is utilized for a high-value transaction. This was the rock-solid law when the constitution was written." But his article was limited to the question of the legitimacy of signing legislation by proxy through an auto-pen.
It was also understood that pardons had to be signed. The signing could not be delegated.
Autopen seems to be more trouble than it is worth. We'd be better off not using it at all, and/or not allowing the use.
No one has pointed to any “trouble” with its use. Aside from Josh’s hypos which as has been pointed out don’t really depend on the use of an auto pen.
Is a Sharpie a pen?
When I am signing a legal contract, can I delegate my authority to an inanimate object and would that be acceptable in a court of law?
A signature at the end of a document indicates that the signer has read the document and agrees with it. If the president is never there to read the document and a delegate auto-pens it, is it legally binding?
Signing the bottom of a document is an acknowledgement and agreement. Is it enforceable if the named person in the signature never read the document and never physically signed it?
If it's good enough for the president, it should pass muster for all contract law and beyond. I guess I can autopen any legal document without reading it.
The whole thing devalues the intent of the signature: Review and acceptance.
People use signature stamps all the time. How is an autopen any different?
We'd have the same questions if someone other than the President pressed the stamp to paper. What if someone who could access the stamp used it without authorization or with unclear authorization? They would have essentially forged the signature. Does the stamped signature have legal validity?
(There is also a separate question about criminality of the forger.)
When is a Presidential autograph not an autograph?
When it is done by autopen.
How many bills are so important that they can't wait the 10 days to automatically go into effect without the President's signature? If there was such an urgent bill, surely the President could stick around another day and sign it?
Any executive who lets this degree of uncertainty about his decisions become common gossip like this must be mentally incapacitated. What other reason could there be for his silence? The entire matter could be cleared in a single sentence.