The Volokh Conspiracy
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May Government Refuse to Hire Notre Dame Students, Because Notre Dame Teaches and Promotes Anti-Abortion Ideology?
No? Then how can government refuse to hire Georgetown alumni, so long as Georgetown "teach[es] and promote[s] DEI"?
Edward R. Martin Jr., the acting head federal prosecutor in D.C., wrote this letter to the dean of Georgetown law school Feb. 17 (though it apparently was re-sent Monday, and the Georgetown dean responded yesterday):
It has come to my attention reliably that Georgetown Law School continues to teach and promote DEI. This is unacceptable. I have begun an inquiry into this and would welcome your response to the following questions:
First, have you eliminated all DEI from your school and its curriculum?
Second, if DEI is found in your courses or teaching in any way, will you move swiftly to remove it?
At this time, you should know that no applicant for our fellows program, our summer internship, or employment in our office who is a student or affiliated with a law school or university that continues to teach and utilize DEI will be considered.
Now let's imagine, as a thought experiment that, a California high-level government official (there are plenty of deep Blue officials in the country as well as deep Red ones)—call him Drawde Nitram—wrote a similar letter to the President of Notre Dame:
It has come to my attention reliably that Notre Dame continues to teach and promote anti-abortion views. This is unacceptable. I have begun an inquiry into this and would welcome your response to the following questions:
First, have you eliminated all anti-abortion teaching from your school and its curriculum?
Second, if anti-abortion teaching is found in your courses or teaching in anyway, will you move swiftly to remove it?
At this time, you should know that no applicant for our fellows program, our summer internship, or employment in our office who is a student or affiliated with a law school or university that continues to teach and utilize anti-abortion views will be considered.
Such government action, it seems to me, would clearly violate the First Amendment, either as to the fictional Nitram or the very real Martin.
[1.] To begin with, the government's "refusing to hire" employees because of their constitutionally protected speech generally violates the First Amendment, at least unless that speech is likely to be sufficiently disruptive to workplace functioning. See, e.g., Monteiro v. City of Yonkers (2d Cir. 2018); Juarez v. Aguilar (5th Cir. 2011); Thaddeus-X v. Blatter (6th Cir. 1999) (en banc). Line prosecutors, like other government employees, are generally protected by the First Amendment. See, e.g., Chrzanowski v. Bianchi (7th Cir. 2013). (Indeed, in Garcetti v. Ceballos (2006), the Court upheld the demotion of a prosecutor for his speech, but only because that particular speech was part of his job; if Ceballos' speech had been said in his capacity as citizen rather than as employee, it would have been protected, again unless it was sufficiently disruptive.) And of course the First Amendment protects adhering to ideological positions as well as speaking about them.
[2.] The D.C. Circuit has endorsed the view that the First Amendment employment rules also apply to volunteers. Thus, even if the fellows and interns are unpaid, they are still protected by the First Amendment against retaliation based on First-Amendment-protected activity. And Martin's/Nitram's letter of course covers "employment" and not just internships or fellowships.
[3.] Thus, to take it one step at a time,
- The U.S. Attorney's office, or a California government department, can't categorically refuse to hire even people who personally adhere to "DEI" views (whatever exactly that means in Martin's letter) or to "anti-abortion views."
- Nor can the government refuse to hire people who have taken courses in which those views are taught, since listening to speech is protected by the First Amendment.
- Nor can the government refuse to hire people who have joined groups that express those views, since expressive association is protected by the First Amendment.
- Nor can the government refuse to hire people who are going to or have gone to universities in which those subjects are taught; such actions as a student would be protected by the right to listen and by the right to engage in expressive association.
The Martin/Nitram policies would therefore violate the First Amendment rights of the job candidates who are discriminated against because of the candidates' association with Georgetown/Notre Dame.
[4.] And the policies would also violate the First Amendment rights of Georgetown/Notre Dame as well. Universities are themselves speakers. The Martin/Nitram letters would tend to reduce the universities' audiences, by threatening retaliation against people if they become or continue to be their students (or otherwise "affiliated" with the universities).
The most relevant recent case on this is NRA v. Vullo (2024), where NRA alleged that New York financial regulators threatened banks and insurance companies with retaliation unless they reduced or cut off their financial ties to the NRA. The Supreme Court held that, if those allegations were proved, this would mean that the New York authorities violated the NRA's rights (even though the threatened retaliation would have directly operated on the NRA's business partners, and only indirectly affected the NRA):
[The Director of the Department of Financial Services] was free to criticize the NRA …. She could not wield her power, however, to threaten enforcement actions against [Department]-regulated entities in order to punish or suppress the NRA's gun-promotion advocacy.
The same would apply when government authorities threaten to retaliate against a university's students because of the university's viewpoint. Martin/Nitram are free to criticize universities that teach DEI or anti-abortion views. They could not wield their power, however, to threaten not to hire the universities' students or other affiliates in order to punish or suppress the universities' advocacy.
[5.] To be sure, the government has a great deal of authority to punish or suppress universities' constitutionally unprotected discriminatory conduct. If the letter only asked Georgetown whether, for instance, it was violating Title VI under Students for Fair Admissions by discriminating based on race in admitting students, and threatened retaliation against the university if it continued to violate Title VI, that would have been fine.
Indeed, Title VI itself involves a threat of retaliation (withdrawal of federal funds, and authorizing of private lawsuits enforced through federal courts) for universities' illegal race discrimination. I wouldn't support a government employer punishing students for discriminatory action by their universities. But I tentatively doubt that such refusal to hire students who are going to schools that illegally discriminate would be unconstitutional.
But here it's clear that the letter is focusing not on possibly discriminatory admission decisions, but on what Georgetown "teach[es]" and "promote[s]" (presumably in the speech sense of "promote"), and what is included in "its curriculum" and "courses or teaching." That's targeting First-Amendment-protected speech, not Title-VI-prohibited conduct.
[6.] Finally, note that President Trump's Executive Order related to DEI in education doesn't go this far. That order aims at preventing "discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin," and thus apparently at "DEI" in the sense of preferences in admission, contracting, or hiring.
It expressly targets "dangerous, demeaning, and immoral race- and sex-based preferences under the guise of so-called 'diversity, equity, and inclusion' (DEI) … that can violate the civil-rights laws of this Nation." It "order[s] all agencies to enforce our longstanding civil-rights laws and to combat illegal private-sector DEI preferences, mandates, policies, programs, and activities." It orders "the Attorney General and the Secretary of Education" to "issue guidance to … all institutions of higher education that receive Federal grants or participate in the Federal student loan assistance program … regarding the measures and practices required to comply with Students for Fair Admissions, Inc." And it expressly adds,
This order does not prevent State or local governments, Federal contractors, or Federally-funded State and local educational agencies or institutions of higher education from engaging in First Amendment-protected speech.
This order does not prohibit persons teaching at a Federally funded institution of higher education as part of a larger course of academic instruction from advocating for, endorsing, or promoting the unlawful employment or contracting practices prohibited by this order.
The Martin/Nitram letters don't target discriminatory actions; they target the teaching of certain viewpoints. It's hard to see how they could possibly be consistent with the First Amendment.
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"To begin with, the government's "refusing to hire" employees because of their constitutionally protected speech generally violates the First Amendment, at least unless that speech is likely to be sufficiently disruptive to workplace functioning,"
Sounds like that describes DEI ideology.
Yeah, isn't that the whole point of DEI? Disrupt (maybe destroy) institutions because they promote and protect "white supremacy" (so loosely defined it has no meaning)? To shut down--some would say "cancel"--those who engage in wrong think against the narrative of intersectionality because speech is violence (while literal violence is free speech)? I'm fine with keeping those people out of the federal workforce because their thinking is antithetical to a government that treats the people it serves equally. Just like the government can deny jobs to Klan members, it can deny jobs to DEI advocates.
No.
This kind of letter is stunningly dumb and counterproductive. First off, it reads like something an angry (and not very bright) consumer would write to the CEO of the Heinz Corp. upon learning that their new bottle of ketchup contains high-fructose corn syrup, rather than something a "real" lawyer would write.
Second, by not defining DEI or what is problematic about it, the recipient can effortlessly "motte and bailey" it. He probably already has a macro to do so.
A marginally-intelligent lawyer (i.e. someone considerably brighter than Interim USA Martin) would have said something like, "While DEI programs on their face may appear anodyne, they are often used and misused to promote illegal discrimination and other civil rights violations. Given the current Administration's focus on combatting these violations, please provide a detailed summary of your DEI program(s) (including copies of the relevant teaching materials and policies) and an explanation of why they do not encourage discrimination or animus against any racial, ethnic or religious group (including blacks, Asians, whites, Jews, Muslims, Christians or Israelis)...."
First off, it reads like something an angry (and not very bright) consumer would write to the CEO of the Heinz Corp. upon learning that their new bottle of ketchup contains high-fructose corn syrup
Heh heh
As always, letters like this are written for an audience of one — and it's not the recipient. As such, the letter need not be — indeed, should not be — lawyerly or professional or competent.
I get that, but a more competent lawyer would have been able to please his client and accomplish his policy goals.
Nothing is preventing him from being rude and intemperate in the opening paragraph, or from using the word "unfair" multiple times. That is as far as DJT will read anyway, so mission accomplished on that front.
But speaking as someone who is actually interested in rolling back the more pernicious aspects of DEI, I'd have preferred to see something in the succeeding paragraphs that had a chance of doing so.
Not everything is what it might appear to be at first glance, and people are playing three dimensional chess this time.
What was really behind the Scopes Monkey Trial?
A publicity stunt to promote tourism in Dayton, Tennessee.
The whole thing was a put-up job from start to finish. The "defendant" was recruited and the "prosecutor" agreed to pay any fine he incurred. The City of Dayton recruited Clarence Darrow and William Jennings Bryan to take opposite sides and recruited John Scopes, who didn't even teach biology (he was the football coach), to be the defendant.
While the trial was a spectacle, and a great many people came to view it, almost all of them stayed in a nearby town with better hotels, which seems par for the course of cities hosting big events for the purpose of economic stimulus.
Great book on the trial. https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Trial-of-the-Century/Gregg-Jarrett/9781982198572
Objection: assumes facts not in evidence.
A single high-fructose-corn-syrup hating consumer would have trivial power/leverage over Heinz Corp., other than taking their ketchup buying business elsewhere.
There's much more power involved here. And keeping DEI insufficiently defined encourages the target to root out anything and everything that might be considered to have even a tangential whiff of it.
Why don't these rules apply to judges hiring clerks?
What do you mean?
I think he means judges who have said they won't hire clerks from law schools with illiberal policies on free speech (e.g., Judge Ho on the Fifth Circuit who said he won't hire Yale law students because of his view that Yale condones and encourages cancelation of speakers with conservative views).
Generally speaking, personal assistant who work directly with high-ranked superiors who need ideological alignment with their boss aren't subject to civil service protections or anti-patronage rules
I guess this sort of analysis is necessary if there's going to be some sort of legal action, so good work.
But the real problem here is not the letter itself, but MAGA Martin.
The guy is not just an incompetent fool, he is also a would-be fascist.
He fired those involved in Jan. 6 prosecutions, threatens to investigate anyone critical of Trump, or Musk, etc.
There were also incidents in Missouri.
On top of which he has no background as a prosecutor.
In short, a median Trump appointee.
I would leave out "would be."
Your being worse than bernard (who isn't a bad guy). You've reduced "fascist" to being meaningless
Firing people involved in prosecutions of an attempted insurrection, threatening people critical of the leader, attacking academic institutions, and so on is the act of someone furthering fascism.
It is not "meaningless" to look at his record and see him as a fascist.
This letter would be ridiculous. But it's the classic, now shoe is on the other foot. After years of graduate programs imposing ldeological litmus tests, struggle sessions, etc. etc., people are seeing just how bad it is.
DEI is poison.
See above re Scopes Monkey Trial...
Professor, a nearby College has one of the few courses in Air Traffic Control. Over the last few years white male graduates have pretty much been told not to bother to apply for the FAA school, while female and minority graduates are recruited. I know this as fact because several graduates work for the same company that I do. The shortage of Controllers is proving to be a safety issue, yet qualified people are being discriminated against. It goes both ways.
Just because they were told doesn't make it true.
Do you have any actual knowledge of how many hires there were and what percentage were woman or minorities?
And, if you do, please provide that evidence.
It's a shame that the FAA says that it doesn't track that information. Personally with the shortage of ATC's they should be grabbing every qualified candidate until they have enough. My only regret was that by the time I got out of the Navy I was too old for the school. You had to have graduated by age 25 at that time. ATC is about the only Federal Government job where you can retire with a full pension at 20 year of service.
FWIW: The Full Story of the FAA's Hiring Scandal.
We still haven't seen the final NTSB report on the Reagan National Crash -- and remember that there are TWO ATCs involved -- the FAA one *and* the Military one. Only one need be incompetent, and the jury is still out on the Helo pilot -- who *was* where she wasn't supposed to be, i.e. above 200 feet.
A lawsuit over racial discrimination by the FAA was filed in 2015. It is still going on. This looks like the case: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/4542755/brigida-v-united-states-department-of-transportation/
Sounds like a blessing to Georgetown (and similarly situated) students. This guy is doing a speed-run into facing bar discipline. And it pretty much has nothing to do with ideology as such. He's got all the hallmarks of future discipline case:
Solo practitioner background;
Attention-seeking (No one should know who the acting DC US Atty is outside of lawyers in DC, yet this guy has produced more news stories than the actual confirmed Attorney General);
Doesn't understand his current job or his obligations;
Sloppiness in both legal and communications work;
Unnecessarily belligerent, particularly about things that do not matter;
Whiney when called out on it;
Making enemies of very accomplished lawyers who won't stick up for him when shit hits the fan.
You neither know who he is, nor who is behind him, do you?
I actually do.... 🙂
While I don't know him personally, I obviously know who he is because I am talking about him and his background? I also clearly know who is "behind him" because I know who appointed him.
If this is a violation of the First Amendment, whose rights does it violate? A student is affected by the policy regardless of that student's support for abortion or DEI. Does the school have standing to sue to overturn such a policy? In this case can a plaintiff sue to enjoin a memo?
Please, please, please do....
It's a prosecutor saying he doesn't want to hire law students being taught twisted notions of equality under the law.
I don't see it as any different than a hospital administrator saying he doesn't want to hire medical students from a school teaching substandard medical practices.
Except the Martin letter is real and the Nitram letter is just hypothetical. There haven't been people stupid enough to put Nitram's position in writing, at least so far.
I'm not sure why that's an "except." The point of my post is that, if the Martin policy were allowed, the Nitram policy would be, too. Conversely, people who think the Nitram policy would violate the First Amendment should think the same of the Martin policy.
But Martin can argue that his criterion is actually job relevant. He's hiring people who are supposed to do justice without regard to race, and the criteria is that they can't be from a school that teaches that you shouldn't do that.
The Nitram policy would probably be job relevant if Planned Parenthood were hiring.
Hair splitting.
If you can't be consistent in your principles, what's the point?
It's contrary to my principles to explain to Eugene why his point is wrong? What ever gave you the idea that I had such a strange principle?
Look, there's nothing in my principles that says a government agency has to hire lawyers from an institution that teaches them they should act unlawfully by racially discriminating on the job. I don't know why you'd even THINK I had such a bizarre principle.
No.
Opposing (or supporting) abortion is legal.
Racial discrimination is not -- it's against public policy.
Now domestic violence also is, so the proper analogy would be one that said men had a right to beat their wives.
"Then how can government refuse to hire Georgetown alumni, so long as Georgetown "teach[es] and promote[s] DEI"?"
The difference is obvious. We're discussing hiring people for legal positions, and whatever DEI purports to be, in practice DEI is illegal. It is, in practice, systematic racial discrimination.
It would be no different than discovering that Georgetown teaches and promotes human trafficking, or any other morally odious crime. You don't hire people who've been taught criminality for a legal position.
Suddenly a fan of the Civil Rights Act, eh?
I'm a fan of the parts applying to the government, but while I might think people are entitled to racially discriminate in the private sector, that doesn't mean I approve of it. I disapprove of a lot of obnoxious stuff that I think the government isn't entitled to outlaw.
And this guy is hiring for the government, not the private sector, he should not be hiring people who've been taught to break the law.
"he should not be hiring people who've been taught to break the law."
I don't think you have any idea what 1) is taught in law schools 2) what "breaking the law" means.
I don't think a law school promoting DEI is teaching compliance with the law. They're teaching circumvention of it, instead.
And the administration happens to agree with me, so federal hiring policy is going to be based on that premise.
"I don't think a law school promoting DEI is teaching compliance with the law. They're teaching circumvention of it, instead."
Again, you have absolutely zero idea what is taught in law schools or what constitutes "breaking the law."
Get used to having an administration for the next four years that agrees with me instead of you.
That still doesn't make you good at law. No matter how much you wish it would. I'll be fine. You'll still have an entirely unearned sense of confidence about things you know nothing about.
Doesn't make you good at law either.
One difference between the abortion and DEI cases is that DEI teaches lawyers to violate laws; not how to do it, but to do it. It's the same as an auto mechanic school teaching the wrong way to change spark plugs, as opposed to a cooking school telling students the same thing.
Another guy who has no idea what law school is like.
Another lieyer masquerading as a lawyer and giving the other 1% a bad name.
No. In addition to not knowing (as LTG said) what law school is, you also don't know what DEI is. It doesn't "teach" anything.
"what DEI is. It doesn't "teach" anything."
Another DN stupid ism. No, maybe it "preaches" rather than teaches. Its overarching insistence in many organizations is meant to instructure what behavior will be tolerated.
You don't know what DEI is. I've explained to you what it is, but you just say I'm lying and apply your preferred definition, which is just affirmative action.
Which advocacy of the merits of is also not illegal, but the ship where you allow disagreement without authoritarian censure has long ago sailed.
DEI is not illegal. DEI isn't a thing at all. Discrimination is of course illegal, but that does not mean that teaching about discrimination (which also is not "DEI") is illegal. Your comment makes as much sense as saying that because cocaine is illegal, teaching organic chemistry is illegal.
That's not how law school works. Even at low ranked schools like South Texas College of Law, but especially at T14 schools, law school is not a trade school.
Poor example DN.
teaching how to make methamphetamine is not legal even in an organic chemistry course
Really? What state or federal statutes make it illegal for an organic chemistry professor to teach how to synthesize methamphetamine? Please come back and tell us when you have the answer. (Are you one of the IANALs on this board?)
1: Don't you honestly think that Pro Life students aren't ALREADY discriminated against?
2: Opposing abortion (or favoring it) is not -- in and of itself -- illegal. Criminal offenses related to one's viewpoint, e.g. Operation Rescue and Jane's Revenge very much are, but advocating for or against it isn't.
HOWEVER most (all) of DEI involves forms of discrimination. Well-intended discrimination but still discrimination, which *is* illegal. Hence he is saying that he won't hire people taught to advocate illegal acts -- what's wrong with that?
3: https://law.justia.com/cases/maine/supreme-court/1972/297-a-2d-607-0.html
A state may deny ETOH license to private entity because that private entity had a policy of racial discrimination. How is that different (in principle) than this?
To quote LTG, "Again, you have absolutely zero idea what is taught in law schools or what constitutes 'breaking the law.'"
You say that as if all law schools are the same.
Do you think that Blackman teaches the same as Lawrence Tribe? Of course not.
Prof Volokh, I hesitate to disagree with you on a 1A matter but in this case I think you may be wrong. Or at least, missing a piece in the analysis.
Hiring for a political position (and the US Attorney's office would count, I think) can be based on the candidates political opinions. If it were otherwise, the governor/president/etc would be forced to fill government positions with his/her political opponents. It would defeat much of the purpose of running elections.
Being hired into a government job is not a right. That distinguishes the situation from what was done to the NRA.
I'm not saying that punishing students for the university's bad behavior is a good idea - but not all bad policies are unconstitutional.
Assistant US attorney positions, as well as most positions in the US government, should non political. That is the issue. No-one is arguing that failure to appoint a liberal as, say, secretary of Defense or US attorney, because of the person's political views is problematic.
Anyone who thinks government attorneys are non-political hasn't noticed how many quit following a contentious DA election.
What you think should be non-political is beside the point.
The US Attorney offices are not local DA offices. Local DA hirings should be non partisan, also. But many times local DA hires are political.
So you would be fine with hiring from a college that touts it's proud tradition of supporting the KKK and have instilled their philosophy in all their classes? The only real difference is that the KKK is Democrats being honest while DEI is them lying, and targeting different people for their race based discrimination.
The US Attorney is a political position. The US Attorney's office is not.
1. What's the boundary?
2. What's your source?
I ask for source not to be snarky but because I looked and while it makes sense that you shouldn't fire the Dept of Transportation janitor for his/her political views, I couldn't find anything that clearly explains why that's allowed for some government employees for their political views but not others.
Political = chosen by the President.
Nonpolitical = hired under civil service merit-based hiring procedures.
I'm still not sure what the rule is but I know for sure it's not that. First, because it applies to people who work for congressmen, judges and every other branch, not merely the President and second because it has no limiting factor since the President could (theoretically) select all the way down to the DoT janitor. It would be impractical but there is nothing in law or constitution that says he can't.
So, it would be equally permissible for Martin to have said his office will not hire anyone for any position if they have reason to believe that the person has ever been or may ever be a Democrat? Why not?
To be clear: anti-DEI is pro-discrimination. The DoD just cancelled regulations that prohibited contractors from engaging in racial segregation.
To be clear, DEI is pro-discrimination. They just claim it's nice discrimination.
To be clear, the Freedman's Bureau is pro-discrimination. They just claim it's nice discrimination.
Planter and former enslaver in 1867.
The Freedman's Bureau did indeed discriminate. On the basis of whether or not you'd formerly been a slave, though, not on the basis of race. It's right there in the name.
A classification which includes just about every black person at the time, and excludes almost none (and as administered actually excluded none).
I see you're back to formalism over function again. Ever notice how you switch around these days?
"A classification which includes just about every black person at the time,"
Whoa! Congratulations, you just made all Northern blacks disappear from history.
He'll do that to try to make his point.
The problem here is people defining words to mean whatever they want them to mean. When definitions are radically different, people may be talking about the same label. But they are not in any way talking about the same thing.
But you may be right all the same. These are the same folks who call social policies common to most market-oriented European countries “communism,” and proceed to associate these policies with all the connotative associations of Stalinism.
It’s a similar game.
The KKK literature did the same; it’s an old tactic. They would bring up stories of black people who treated white people in humiliating or violent ways, and then associate that with every black response except “Yes massah Sir.” Bring up a few stories of black men raping white women, and then so associate that with asking for rights you convince people that if they want to vote or something like that, it’s just a prelude to rape.
Similar game. DEI is being tarred in a manner remarkably similar to the way “Negro equality” or “Negro votes” were a century ago.
The problem is, these folks really aren’t dishonest. They’ve been trained to associate communism with gulags. So when someone calls (say) Obamacare communist, the assumption is it’s a plan to put us all in gulags.
Same way with votes for niggers (or women). Same with DEI. Same with fluoridating the water. And any number of other things. These folks really aren’t all that original.
Associate a label with really horrible things. Claim a binary world where things are either the label or its opposite, So someone mentions the mildest thing that’s arguably a step in the direction of the label, since it’s not against the label it gets the label. Then claim the person who proposed it intends to do all the horrible things the label is associated with.
They have it down to a science.
Thank you for a calm explanation.
The very same people telling us that DEI isn't about racial discrimination are the people who told us that CRT wasn't about racial discrimination. And then they totally blew up over laws that did no more than prohibit racial discrimination.
THIS is what defenders of CRT thought was an attack on it:
"760.10 Unlawful employment practices.—
(8)(a) Subjecting any individual, as a condition of employment, membership, certification, licensing, credentialing, or passing an examination, to training, instruction, or any other required activity that espouses, promotes, advances, inculcates, or compels such individual to believe any of the following concepts constitutes discrimination based on race, color, sex, or national origin under this section:
1. Members of one race, color, sex, or national origin are morally superior to members of another race, color, sex, or national origin.
2. An individual, by virtue of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin, is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously.
3. An individual’s moral character or status as either privileged or oppressed is necessarily determined by his or her race, color, sex, or national origin.
4. Members of one race, color, sex, or national origin cannot and should not attempt to treat others without respect to race, color, sex, or national origin.
5. An individual, by virtue of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin, bears responsibility for, or should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of, actions committed in the past by other members of the same race, color, sex, or national origin.
6. An individual, by virtue of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin, should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment to achieve diversity, equity, or inclusion.
7. An individual should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin.
8. Such virtues as merit, excellence, hard work, fairness, neutrality, objectivity, and racial colorblindness are racist or sexist, or were created by members of a particular race, color, sex, or national origin to oppress members of another race, color, sex, or national origin."
I think we need to keep that prior argumentative history in mind when told by the same people that DEI isn't about racially discriminating. They have some REALLY weird and Orwellian ideas about what is and isn't "racial discrimination".
Look, there really were black men who raped white women during Reconstruction. There were a few who abused positions of power to do so. And people who claimed that giving any power to black people inevitably meant white women getting rate would trot these cases out and put them on display.
The cases existed. They were real. They just were a few extreme outliers and not representative.
Every group has people who abuse power and commit crimes. Every movement has extremists.
Also, I would probably say a prohibition like this on the kinds of things people can talk about has serious First Amendment problems.
Saying you can’t call everything that offends you harassment and you can’t ban it as such cuts both ways.
Look, I personally am with Goldwater back in the 60's; The Civil rights act was well intentioned, but that didn't mean it was constitutional: Private racial discrimination is an evil that the federal government is not licensed to do anything about.
And at the state level, it may be something states are entitled to regulate, as they have the general police power that the federal government was deliberately NOT given, but from a libertarian perspective people are ENTITLED to be discriminatory pricks so long as they don't actually violate somebody's rights.
But, that's not a perspective that has triumphed in law, is it?
However, you seem to have missed my point.
The same people telling us today that DEI is not racist, were telling us that CRT was not racist. And yet, they treated a law that just prohibited racism as an attack on CRT! Maybe an unconstitutional attack, in light of the 1st amendment, but still, an attack on CRT.
Which makes no sense at all unless you genuinely believe that CRT espouses the views that law prohibited inculcating.
My conclusion from that is that the defenders of CRT and DEI have a somewhat eccentric definition of "racist" and "racial discrimination", which doesn't remotely accord with how most people understand the concepts.
'DEI is what I say it means and everyone saying different is a liar"
You have become a crank.
No, more like you're lying like a rug about what DEI really is.
But if somebody had proposed to enact a law that just prohibited rape, and you'd exploded over how it was a racist attack on black men, I think the case for you being the racist would be pretty strong.
Molly, do you honestly -- honestly -- think they would get away with racial discrimination???
They'd get them on some other nondiscrimination law.
Next century, American social historians are probably going to view the anti-DEI (Or CRT or Woke or whatever) push as simply a continuation of reactionary politics in response to Reconstruction. A critical mass of white Americans have never gotten over it and have opposed black integration into society at every single juncture. From complaining about the Freedman's Bureau to trying to keep bases named after Confederate losers who fought for slavery in the year 2025, the dominance of post-war planter ideology will be seen as a unifying theme.
No reason to wait. We know now that the attacks on DEI and non-discrimination are a continuation of reactionary politics in response to Reconstruction. But it is worse now because they are also going after the rights of the disabled.
Sure, but it’s going to be much more clear to historians and students of history a century from now. Kind like the long 18th century, the long 19th century, they’re gonna lump this period into the “Long Reconstruction.”
Good grief -- as if it even needs to be said, most conservatives have no objection to Reconstruction (!).
Even many left leaning folks have now acknowledged that DEI measures have gone too far in at least some ways (pick your preferred example...there are many, but I don't want to make it about any "one" of them...). Moreover, a majority of *Californians* in *2020* voted against race based affirmative action as such, so clearly even a lot of lefties have mixed feelings about some of this stuff.
As a moderate conservative, I'll also concede the "Anti-DEI" movement has now gone too far also...but maybe try some nuance?
Nuance will be for the historians 150 years from now hoping to make a name for themselves by challenging the broad narrative that they none-the-less concede is in large part correct.
At the time, conservatives had no objection to reconstruction either, as long as reconstruction meant the sensible Johnson plan - convert de jure slavery to de facto debt peonage and go on mostly as before - and not all this radical batshit crazy talk of votes for niggers, niggers holding office, social equality for niggers, educating niggers, niggers owning land, niggers allowed to testify against white people, and all this other really off the wall crazy shit.
You cannot say anti-DEI has gone too far while we still have racism enshrined in law regardless of who it's aimed at hindering.
I suppose if you look at the current ideological composition of history faculty at universities, it's pretty much a given that history books written in the next 20 years or so are going to make the left look really good. Whether the left will maintain that dominance of the profession even a century from now, on the other hand, is kind of up for grabs.
Kind of depends on if conservatives and right-wingers want to engage in serious study of history. So not likely.
No, the 1960s/70s as a civil war, and this as anti-reconstruction
And the pro-DEI position will be seen as racists who want to continue fighting the Civil War. Yes, Reconstruction was unpopular, and so is today's DEI version of it.
Professor, I know it's just a hypothetical, but seriously, do you have any evidence that Notre Dame, as an institution, teaches or promotes anti-abortion views?
If one takes a Catholic theology course at ND, s/he will hear that abortion is a grievous sin.
Are you sure????
I am a proud Georgetown Law alum and admitted to the bar. What can I do if I want to be considered for a position in Martin's office, beyond going through with the application process? (Unimaginable for a great many reasons, but please don't fight the hypothetical.) What can I or a more likely Georgetown alum than I do to vindicate are rights to be considered on equal footing with similarly qualified attorneys? We may have no rights to a position in Martin's office, but surely we can't be barred from consideration because we graduated decades ago from one of this country's better law schools.
BTW, will this horse's behind (Ed, a relative of yours?) Martin start disqualifying the alumni of all law schools who have after promoted DEI until he is left with a candidate pool of zero? Really, what are the limits of such lunacy?
I am a proud Georgetown Law alum and admitted to the bar. What can I do if I want to be considered for a position in Martin's office, beyond going through with the application process? (Unimaginable for a great many reasons, but please don't fight the hypothetical.) What can I or a more likely Georgetown alum than I do to vindicate our rights to be considered on equal footing with similarly qualified attorneys? We may have no rights to a position in Martin's office, but surely we can't be barred from consideration because we graduated decades ago from one of this country's better law schools.
BTW, will this horse's behind (Ed, a relative of yours?) Martin start disqualifying the alumni of all law schools who have after promoted DEI until he is left with a candidate pool of zero? Really, what are the limits of such lunacy?