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More on Birthright Citizenship and Undocumented Immigrants - Rejoinder to Barnett and Wurman
Why their response to me and other critics fails to refute key objections.

In a recent blog post, Randy Barnett and Ilan Wurman have responded to my piece and others criticizing their NY Times op ed that had offered partial defense of President Trump's executive order denying birthright citizenship to children of undocumented immigrants, and migrants in the US on temporary visas. I think they fail to effectively rebut several key points, most notably that their argument - if applied consistently - would also deny birthright citizenship to recently freed slaves - the group the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment was principally intended to protect.
Section 1 of the Amendment grants citizenship to anyone "born … in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof." Barnett and Wurman argue that only people who have exchanged "allegiance" for "protection" qualify as "subject to the jurisdiction" of the US. As pointed out in my earlier post, freed slaves did not qualify, because they had never made any such exchange. The US government sought to compel their obedience, but did not offer any meaningful protection. To the contrary, it facilitated their subjugation and oppression.
In their response, Barnett and Wurman state that " enslaved persons brought here against their will were not afforded protection of the law. But obedience and ligeance were demanded of them nonetheless." The US, they say, owed them protection in exchange. The obvious problem here is that a demand for obedience without any reciprocal provision of protection is not an "allegiance-for-protection" compact. It's just straight-out coercion in exchange for virtually nothing. One could just as easily say that a Mafia protection racket qualifies as "allegiance-for-protection." Indeed, the slavery situation was actually worse than that, since the Mafia usually doesn't impose lifelong forced labor on its victims.
If a mere demand of obedience is enough to trigger "jurisdiction," then illegal migrants also qualify. After all, the US government certainly demands their obedience to its laws. They can be prosecuted for crimes, subjected to civil suits in US courts, and so on.
At one point, if I interpret them correctly, Barnett and Wurman seem to suggest that the allegiance-for-protection exchange may have occurred when the former slaves were freed. I anticipated this kind of argument in my previous post:
This situation changed, to an extent, with the abolition of slavery through the Thirteenth Amendment. But the "subject to the jurisdiction" language of the Citizenship Clause refers to people subject to that jurisdiction at the time they were born. For example, the [US-born] child of a foreign diplomat doesn't get birthright citizenship if her parents later lose their diplomatic immunity.
By its very nature, birthright citizenship is acquired through circumstances present at the time of one's birth, not by ones that occur years later.
Barnett and Wurman also continue to err in focusing almost exclusively on materials that predate the drafting and enactment of the Fourteenth Amendment. Given that the whole purpose of the Citizenship Clause was to grant citizenship to a large class of people who didn't have it before, we cannot assume that it was merely following preexisting legal rules (even assuming that Barnett and Wurman interpret the latter correctly). Scholars who have canvassed the drafting and enactment history, and its aftermath find that the evidence supports birthright citizenship for the undocumented. See, for example, Michael Ramsey's extensive work on this subject.
The source Barnett and Wurman rely on the most is an 1862 opinion by Attorney General Edward Bates. Even assuming this opinion is relevant to the construction of the Citizenship Clause (drafted years later), Barnett and Wurman fail to effectively address Jed Shugerman's critique of their construction of it. As Shugerman points out, far from concluding that an allegiance-for-protection exchange is necessary to trigger birthright citizenship, Bates argued the exact opposite: being born in the United States creates a presumption of citizenship, which in turn triggers both allegiance and protection. As Bates put it, "nativity furnishes the rule, both of duty and of right, as between the individual and the government" (emphasis added).
Barnett and Wurman overlook this crucial point in both their original article and their response. I am not convinced the Bates opinion should be given any great weight in interpreting the Citizenship Clause. As a legal matter, it is not actually an interpretation of the Citizenship Clause, which had not yet been drafted. As a matter of political theory, I find the argument that mere birth triggers an obligation of allegiance morally repugnant. But to the extent that Bates' position matters, it actually undercuts the Barnett-Wurman thesis rather than supports it.
Finally, Barnett and Wurman continue to claim that their opponents' position cannot account for such anomalies as the denial of birthright citizenship to people born on foreign public vessels in US waters and its extension to children of American citizens born in territories occupied by an invading army. I covered both in my original post:
These aren't actually anomalies at all. As the Supreme Court ruled in 1812, foreign public vessels in US territorial waters remain under the sovereignty of their governments, and therefore are not within US jurisdiction. Citizens residing within enemy-held territory remain under an obligation to follow US law, and that duty can be enforced upon them in a way it cannot be on foreign troops (for example through prosecutions undertaken after the US recaptures the territory).
I would add that the US government retains a variety of other means of leverage over US citizens residing in temporarily occupied territories. For example, it can strip them of citizenship if they commit treason by collaborating with the enemy. Such people remain under US jurisdiction in a way invading enemy troops are not.
Finally, I think Barnett and Wurman are wrong to suggest that the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction" is ambiguous with respect to the issue at hand. In both ordinary usage and legal parlance, "jurisdiction" refers to authority. A person is subject to the jurisdiction of a government if that entity can exercise power over her by enforcing its laws against her. There may be some situations where the term is used in a non-standard or counterintuitive way. But if so, the burden of proof is on those who advocate an interpretation that deviates from ordinary usage.
In sum, I much appreciate Barnett and Wurman's thoughtful efforts to address criticisms and clarify their position. But the ultimate result does more to highlight the power of the critiques than to refute them.
UPDATE: It may be worth reiterating, as stated in my earlier post, that the Barnett-Wurman argument - even if completely sound - cannot justify the part of Trump's order denying birthright citizenship to children of migrants who legally entered the US on temporary visas.
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Has anyone's mind been changed on this subject with all of the posts and comments it has generated?
Nope. Not a one. Least of all Ilya.
When engaged in rational civil discussion, the ones that find themselves to be wrong about something are the ones that should change their mind. Someone is wrong about birthright citizenship in this argument. How certain are you that Ilya is the one that is wrong? Maybe you can explain to us all why he is, and why it is not Barnett and Wurman.
" Someone is wrong about birthright citizenship "
Yes, they are. And the sad thing is that ten years ago, if these people had addressed the question of birthright citizenship at all,* they would almost certainly have reached the correct opinion, but now, as a result of pronouncements by the most mentally unfit person to every hold the office of President, they abandon reason and clearly established law and precedent. Talk about TDS.
*because, ten years ago the only people who even questioned the issue were among a small group of deluded nativist wing nuts. And, that group was only a small fraction of deluded nativist wing nuts.
I did not say he was right OR wrong; I said he hasn't changed his mind.
And he hasn't.
Yeah, you're right there in the middle of the road with the yellow lines and dead armadillos, as Little Jimmy Hightower would say.
Marxists never change their minds on anything.
New definition of Marxist includes anybody with the ability to understand the "plain language" of the 14th Amendment.
Why do you dopes try to win arguments by torturing the English language?
Well, the legal academic exposition on "jurisdiction" in this context by Barnett and Wurman is interesting and the allegiance/protection explanation may inform the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction" at some level but that is really just subsumed into the concept of domicile. The one place where you legally and permanently reside is the place to which you owe allegiance and are due protection. And that aspect is reinforced in the Citizenship clause when it includes “and of the state wherein they reside.” You only have one place of domicile and if that place is a state in this Union, then your kids born here are citizens. This really isn't all that complicated.
" This really isn't all that complicated."
First, the relevant language of the 14th Amendment specifies:
1. That children born in the US (with a couple exceptions) are US citizens.
2. That citizens of the US are citizens of the State in which they reside. It quite clearly does not state that only those who reside in any of the States are citizens. That interpretation would imply that US citizens who reside outside the country lose their citizenship which I'd bet even you wouldn't contend.
Second, children born in the United States are indeed residents of whatever State they are born in. One does not inherit foreign residence.
In sum, all your onanistic blathering about domicile is nonsense,
Third, a child born in the United States, no matter the immigration status of the parents*, owes no allegiance to any foreign state. We may recall, we fought a war over that question (among other issues). We, of course, won on that question though we lost over another aim of that war, the annexation of Canada.
*with certain exceptions which are not germane.
Not sure "onanistic" is the right way to describe your reply. Ignorant or uniformed are probably more appropriate. But blather works. And your blather fails to address the text of the Citizenship Clause; reflects your ignorance of the really incontrovertible understanding (at least in the 1860s) that an infant’s domicile was the domicile of the infant’s parents; and, of course, it's fairly obvious that you've never even read Wong Kim Ark. On this last point, though you're not alone, apparently a few district court judges haven't either.
You continue to demonstrate that you are perspicacity deprived. Perhaps you are, as others have suggested, a poorly programmed bot rather than just a pendejo with a high specific gravity.
I have, in fact, addressed the text of the citizenship clause. Once again, the clause states that, in addition to being a citizen of the US, those born in the country are also citizens of the state in which they reside. That you claim otherwise is just your inability to read plain English. Perhaps you are a bot programmed by an incompetent programmer who is not fluent in English.
I have, in fact, read Wong Kim Ark (though not wearing a uniform at the time) and, unlike you, I understand its implications.
Funny, always the group think parroting of the same insults when you clowns feel threatened. No, not funny, boring. And we’re done here. I’d mute you but you’re not worth the effort.
Hmmmm. So society is powerless to protect itself from people who break its laws to come here?
Society is not powerless. Society is perfectly free to pass a constitutional amendment within the established framework for doing so.
Or to properly interpret the Constitutional Amendment that it already has in place. Or, hell, to interpret that Constitutional Amendment to get the outcome it desires. I've been told Living Constitutionalism is a great thing by my leftist friends. I guess turnabout isn't fair play?
The government is still free to seek to deport people who break its laws to come here, both before and potentially after giving birth to a child. Children born here have not broken a law to come here.
The fact that this question centers around whether the child born here is a citizen seems to continue to elude the opponents of birthright citizenship. I can only surmise that this is deliberate on their part.
The question centers around the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction." You ignore this for the four millionth time. I can only surmise that this is deliberate on your part.
'The question centers around the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction." '
That has been addressed over and over again. Quite obviously, children born in the United States, with a couple exceptions which do not include the immigration status of their parents, are subject to the jurisdiction of the US. Fully and completely and that has been explained repeatedly and you people continue to have no argument to the contrary. If you disagree, explain one aspect of jurisdiction exercised over the children of citizens as opposed to the children of undocumented immigrants.
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean — or what it has to do with this discussion, since the kids born here have broken exactly zero laws in order to come here.
I see exactly what it is supposed to mean. We are being invaded by all of these brown people, and they want to do away with birthright citizenship as if that is going to do jack shit to stop it.
Even the conservative/Libertarians do not buy the expanded argument against birthright citizenship.
Suck it, bigoted radical extremists.
If a child is born here and raised here, they do not lose the rights and obligations of citizenship because of their parents' status.
.
Again, so Obama Bin Laden/Adolf Hitler/Vlodimir Putin/Ayatollah Khomeni/Yasser Arafat Juniors would all be Amurican Citizens if born 1 inch on US soil?
I don’t have a big enough Bullshit flag for that Bullshit
Yep. That is what is in the Constitution. Just like the police cannot go into a murderer's house without a warrant, even if they know the murderer is inside (absent exigent circumstances). Just like a congressperson who accuses someone else of rape while on the House floor, engaged in speech and debate, cannot be sued for defamation, even if the accusation is demonstrably false. Not great results, perhaps, but that is what the Constitution requires.
No. If it were in the Constitution, it would have been amended long ago.
"it would have been amended long ago."
Why and how? Even today with all the propaganda being generated by Trump suckers the majority of Americans are quite happy with the way that the 14th Amendment has been interpreted since its enactment
That is most certainly not in the Constitution. When two separate requirements appear in a clause, both must hold true. Born here is one requirement. SCOTUS has not interpreted the other requirement in the case of children of illegal immigrants.
It has not interpreted the other requirement in the case of children named George, either.
What it has done is stated the actual legal rule, which in fact is broad and encompasses the children of illegal immigrants.
Everything you say plus the fact that, as far as I know, the only attempts to interpret the 14th Amendment differently have prominently involved people of disfavored ethnicity or race. Does anybody believe that this effort to rewrite the Constitution by Dumbo's edict is aimed at children of Europeans or that it would ever be enforced against them?
Does anyone doubt after 14A was ratified in 1868 every child of an immigrant was a citizen?
Legal Immigrants yes
In 1868 who would qualify as a non-legal immigrant?
Any who weren’t here legally (Duh)
What immigration laws were there on the books in 1868 for immigrants to violate?
The self-proclaimed REMF war hero, world ranked chess champion, fire arms expert, fighter pilot, world class humanitarian, pawn shop owner, gauche handed phenom baseball pitcher, and out-and -proud advocate of invidious racial discrimination is likely impervious to reason no matter how the sane try.
you left out my 2 Fighter Pilot Daughters (also Lefties)
going across the mine fields into Kuwait on the first day of the Ground Wah as a Marine Corpse Infantry Battalion Surgeon is about as far from "REMF" as you can get, but you're such a REMF, you don't even know what a REMF is.
I know exactly what an REMF is. And, I also know that there is no shame in being a service member who has not served in a combat situation. What is shameful is for someone to claim to be a combat veteran when it's not true. For someone to claim to have gone across mine fields when it's not true. That class of REMFs, if you even served at all, is the class which, by all evidence (or lack of the contrary) is the class which you belong to. Suck it up, you lying worthless fraud.
I have no idea how this got to REMFs, but I have never been in the military. I did try to join the Navy, but got medically disqualified.
Answer: None.
How could the drafters of 14A intend it to not apply to "illegal immigrants" when there was no such thing as an "illegal immigrant".
From the time of the enactment of the 14th amendment, can you cite to one child of undocumented immigrants* who has been denied citizenship on the sole basis of the immigration status of the child's parents? Perhaps one child of non-citizens who were not residents or immigrants (temporary workers, tourists, and the like) who were in the US legally? Can you cite any instances at all when an attempt was made to deny a child of such immigrants citizenship when the parents were European, except perhaps members of universally accepted classes such as the children of diplomats or war prisoners?
The only instances of such action that I am aware of had to do with people formerly identified as Oriental, now as Asians; the case of Wong Kim Ark probably being the most famous.
It is a mystery to me how we in the United States could go for about 150 years never realizing that the 14th Amendment birth citizenship prescription did not apply to all these people and suddenly we discover features previously contemplated only by cranks, crackpots, criminals, and cretins.
*Previously I had used the expression "illegal immigrant" (or the equivalent "illegal alien"), but as a result of Brettmore's Rand-like assertion that those who elect to use the equivalent description "undocumented" are not sufficiently "worthy" (is the word I believe Rand used), I will no longer. Seems like Brettmore may be another inheritor of Rand's intellect. Sure would explain much.
No, in 1868, the children of illegal aliens were not citizens. They could be deported along with their parents.
Cite one case following the enactment of the 14th Amendment when an American born child was deported because the child was born of undocumented immigrant parents.
Put up or shut up.
Putt or get off the green.
Shit or get off the pot.
There is no such thing as an undocumented immigrant. All of the immigrants are documented. They have immigrant visas or other papers.
Of course, you are wrong and continue to try to win your argument by raping the language. But, just for you, cite one case following the enactment of the 14th Amendment when an American born child was deported because of the immigration status of the child's parents.
Anchor babies were only invented about 30 years ago. There were no anchor babies in the 1800s.
"anchor babies"
There is no such thing as an "anchor baby." What these people are is American citizens by birth. Just as am I and Donald Trump (so he claims).
They could not be, if for no other reason than that there was no such thing as "the children of illegal aliens" in 1868. The first law banning immigration of any class of people to the U.S. was the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882.
Suppose, unlikely as it might sound, that someone didn’t want to just take your word for that. Where would you point them?
I'm perfectly happy with an expansive view of birthright citizenship.
However ...
I'm not comfortable with people coming into the country illegally, having a birthright citizen, and then the parent who performed the illegal act gets to be naturalized by the action of the child. One could imagine a law that says that a family reunification citizenship is not allowed for a proposed family member who has a history of illegal immigration.
-dk
OK, great name BTW,
Let me save a lot of keystrokes from Hobiestank, David Neverpotent, etc etc
You Race-ist !!!!!!!!!
Frank
That would be a fine law for Congress to propose, debate, and pass!
But it’s way easier to just break things like a petulant 5y.o. than actually build something.
That's the law now. If you have over one year of unlawful presence, you are generally permanently barred from obtaining derivative citizenship through a US citizen relative.
Super. That's actually the law.
So is Capital Punishment in a majority of states, too bad they don’t follow it
So says the king of random capitalization.
Does capitalizing a word incorrectly keep you from understanding it? Like Hemingway, my language is brutal and sparse, but gets the point across, so could you please please please please please please please stop talking? Don't hate me because I'm more literary than you,
Frank
"Like Hemingway,"
Comparing yourself to Hemingway is akin to a flat earthers comparing themselves to Galileo.
"I'm more literary than you,"
What does that even mean? Since when does the degree of being "literary" describe a human characteristic? In any event, I have never claimed to possess any degree of "literary". I leave the unverifiable claims of being superior to the lying REMFS and their brethren.
That. Can't. Happen.
I am being overly categorical, but for all practical purposes it's true. The citizen child cannot even sponsor the parent(s) until the child turns 21. So we're already talking about decades. But the child cannot do that if the parent is here illegally at all. If the parent lived here illegally for more than six months, then the parent would have to leave the country for at least 3 years before sponsorship could start. And if the parent lived here illegally for more than a year, then the parent would have to leave the country for at least 10 years before sponsorship could start.
(And all that assumes that during the time the parent was living here illegally, that s/he didn't commit any crimes or do anything to get him/herself ordered deported.)
Deport Ilya....
Sure, deport American citizens for expressing opinions (in this case, explaining facts) that you don't like. Brilliant, just brilliant.
Thanks for responding in such an even-tempered manner to the ill-informed, bad-faith arguments advanced by Barnett and Wurman.
Their contention that the American citizenship of children born under occupation is somehow mysterious is a real head-scratcher to me. Do they really think that an invasion relieves those in the occupied territory of their allegiance to the United States? That's not how any government anywhere has treated this issue.
Ditto. Ilya always takes on arguments completely and directly. Randy has to ignore most of Ilya's argument. It would be nice, if Randy replies to Ilya, that he at least addresses the entirety of Ilya's argument, point by point. Nothing demonstrates the emptiness of an argument more than the failure to address criticisms completely.
A lot of countries would simply shoot them.
This whole "Birth Right" subject is such Bullshit, if it was Israeli's dropping kids at the border I'd be for making them citizens, but since it's Tredna de Fernando Llamas, or Maribel Rosa Ricardo Montalban, or whatever the South/Central Amurican Cartel Gang of the week is, I'm not, and there's the "Plain Language" of the 14th Amendment, while not as simple as the 2d Amendment (Yes, I do have the right to own a machine gun, as do residents of a majority of the several states) still isn't Quantum Mechanics
Frank
"Yes, I do have the right to own a machine gun"
No, you dope, you do not (except as allowed by federal statutory law).
"Plain Language" of the 2d Amendment:
Consider: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State". The purpose of the 2d Amendment is right there and clearly stated.
And, one does not need to have mastered the intricacies of quantum mechanics to understand the "plain language" of the 14th Amendment. Obviously, you don't know anything about understanding "plain language."
Not even Brettmore is always wrong. His linking of your rhetorical proclivities to those of Limbaugh (another drug-addled idiot) was apt.
To answer my question at the start of this thread; no, no one's mind has been changed.
Not recently, anyway.
As is often said, it's hard to reason someone out of a position that was not reached through reason.
I learned how empty the arguments for birthright citizenship are. Somin makes a big deal about slaves being brought to the USA against their will. Tell him that the slave trade has been abolished. He wants to continue the slave trade.
If it were not for stupid arguments, you wouldn't have any arguments at all.
The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the Fourteenth Amendment applies to the child, not the parents. The amendment makes no reference to a person's parents at all.
Furthermore, this language applies equally to individuals who are "born" in the United States and those who are "naturalized" here. It is difficult to see how someone who has been naturalized in the United States could somehow not be subject to U.S. jurisdiction.
Yes, someone who is naturalized becomes a citizen. The status of the child depends on the parents, because if the parents are foreign citizens, then the child is likely subject to a foreign power.
To be a citizen, a person naturalized in the United States must also be subject to the jurisdiction thereof, just as a person born in the United States must also be subject to its jurisdiction to be a citizen. That's the plain language of the Citizenship Clause: birth-or-naturalization + jurisdiction. In that context, the status of a U.S.-born person's parents is no more relevant than the status of a U.S.-naturalized person's parents.
Interesting aside
Often, many look to Europe and its views on various social issues...health care, the death penalty, etc. Europe (and Oceania) have had a recent trend away from 100% birthright citizenship recently.
Jus soli (Right of the soil) is the law for a minority of countries these days (~30, mostly in the Americas). In Europe, every country has dropped it, with Ireland being the last (changing its laws in 2004). New Zealand stopped automatic birthright citizenship in 2006. Australia ended automatic birthright citizenship in 1986. The UK changed ended it in 1983. And the trend is beginning in the Americas, with the Dominican Republic ended it in 2015
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c983g6zpz28o
Something to consider....
Something to consider
If all your friends jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you do it too?
The USA should not be following the law of other countries, but this does answer the argument that is somehow natural or necessary to be a citizen of where one is born.
"Something to consider...."
Why? We have no need nor reason to consider how other nations define automatic citizenship; not Great Britain, not Germany, not Israel, not any other nation. Nor does any other nation have an obligation to consider how we do it.
Other issues about which other nations' laws and policies have no relevance to ours: free speech protections, capital punishment, abortion availability, firearms regulation or lack there of, privacy protections, health care funding.
Although, I will grant that if we we are doing isn't working, it might make sense to consider other nations' experiences, perhaps healthcare is an example. But, the question of birthright citizenship is not a natter of any concern as our current law and policy presents no significant issue that needs to be addressed.
Barnett, of course, is an intellectual fraud, though I hesitate to put the word intellectual within the same sentence as his name.
The interesting thing here, to me, is why Mr. Volokh continues to give a platform to such retarded posters.
Simpler point: surely, if a state decriminilized the murder of illegal immigrants (and only of illegal immigrants), the state would be violating the 14th Amendment's command not to "deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws"? Illegal immigrants must the count as "person within jurisdiction". Conversely, if they do not, states would be free to let anyone murder or otherwise abuse illegal immigrants (and their U.S.-born children) with impunity. Surely, that can't be right, and an interpretation that permits such a result must be mistaken?
The 14th amendment constitutional question can be avoided entirely by the president simply issuing an executive order that forbids the registration of birth, and the issuance of a birth certificate, to any person born to parents who are in the country illegally.
Since the parents are undocumented, any child born to them will be undocumented as well, and cannot pretend to any right to citizenship, since that person will have no proof of birth or legal existence in the country.
Birth registration and certification for a child born to parents in the country illegally can be obtained from the embassy or consulate of the nation of which the parent is a citizen.
And you think that would be consistent with the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment? It directly denies the protection of the law for those newborns, the protection that their citizenship affords, and does so on a basis that would not apply at all to children of citizens or legal residents. In other words, it denies them that protection because of the national origin of their parents - a clear violation of the text of the Constitution.
Section 1.
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of CITIZENS of the United States; "
A primary motivation for this clause was to validate the equality provisions contained in the Civil Rights Act of 1866, which guaranteed that all CITIZENS would have the right to equal protection by law. (Wikipedia)
But, it seems that these constitutional provisions and protections apply only to US CITIZENS. Citizens of foreign countries that are illegally in the US could not pretend to the same rights and protections as US citizens, and this would apply, as well, to their children born as citizens of the same foreign nation as their parents.
By denying the registration and issuance of a birth certificate, children born to foreign nationals illegally in the US without US-issued documentation can only be regarded as foreign citizens, also, illegally in the US.
A primary motivation for this clause was to validate the equality provisions contained in the Civil Rights Act of 1866, which guaranteed that all CITIZENS would have the right to equal protection by law. (Wikipedia)
And if they only wanted it to do the same thing, then they probably would have used the exact same language, wouldn't they? If they really thought that their wording would exclude children born in the US to foreign nationals of any type, then they wouldn't have said the opposite during debates over it in Congress.
In Judge Ho's opinion article published in 2006, he noted this:
Senator Edgar Cowan (R-PA) – who would later vote against the entire constitutional amendment anyway – was the first to speak in opposition to extending birthright citizenship to the children of foreigners. Cowan declared that, “if [a state] were overrun by another and a different race, it would have the right to absolutely expel them.” He feared that the Howard amendment would effectively deprive states of the authority to expel persons of different races – in particular, the Gypsies in his home state of Pennsylvania and the Chinese in California – by granting their children citizenship and thereby enabling foreign populations to overrun the country. Cowan objected especially to granting birthright citizenship to the children of aliens who “owe [the U.S.] no allegiance [and] who pretend to owe none,” and to those who regularly commit “trespass” within the U.S.
Judge Ho further quotes an entire passage from Sen. John Conness of California's response:
The proposition before us … relates simply in that respect to the children begotten of Chinese parents in California, and it is proposed to declare that they shall be citizens. … I am in favor of doing so. … We are entirely ready to accept the provision proposed in this constitutional amendment, that the children born here of Mongolian parents shall be declared by the Constitution of the United States to be entitled to civil rights and to equal protection before the law with others.
They knew exactly what they were doing. When they wrote that all persons born in the U.S., and subject to its jurisdiction, were citizens of the United States, they knew that it would apply to the children of immigrants. And that is what they voted for, and that is what the states ratified.
The law assumes that the immigrant parents are in the country LEGALLY. The provision assumes the LEGAL presence of immigrants, not illegal ones who defy US jurisdiction and its laws.
What law? The 14th Amendment? There was hardly any immigration law at that time. The distinction between immigrants that were here legally vs. illegally didn't exist. And the point of what Sen. Cowan was arguing was that he wanted to discourage people of certain races from coming to the U.S., and that would happen later with the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. That is when immigration restrictions would begin, and laws and policies enacted after the 14th Amendment can't change what it means. Well, that is what orginalists are always arguing, at least. To the extent that later developments in law and history can't change the plain meaning of the text, I agree with that. The plain meaning of being subject to the jurisdiction of a government entity both then and now is that the government entity has authority over that person to enforce compliance. That is true for all children born in this country, unless: the parents are foreign diplomats, the parents were in the armed forces or support personnel of opposing nations occupying U.S. territory, or if the birth occurred at sea in U.S. waters to non-citizen parents. Those are the only circumstances when someone can be present in U.S. territory and not be subject to all U.S. laws.
Unless you're Sgt. Roger Murtaugh, the only thing you can do to a diplomat that breaks U.S. law is to expel them from the country. Invading soldiers and other enemy forces won't be prosecuted legally for breaking U.S. criminal law, but only for any acts that constitute war crimes under international law. And, I believe* international laws of the sea limit a country's jurisdiction over foreign nationals even in their own territorial waters. Like with foreign diplomats, the ability to enforce U.S. law on foreigners that never set foot on U.S. soil is not the same as those that do.
If an immigrant that is not in the country legally was not "subject to the jurisdiction" of the U.S., then they couldn't be prosecuted for crimes committed here. They could only be deported. That is obviously not true. All of this twisting of the plain meaning of jurisdiction is motivated reasoning that would be in conflict with all kinds of other established legal principles and precedents.
*I'm less certain about this, but it is also less relevant to the issue at hand.
But, it seems that these constitutional provisions and protections apply only to US CITIZENS.
Equal protection applies to all persons, not just citizens. That is the word used in the 14th Amendment, so that is what it means.
Citizens of foreign countries that are illegally in the US could not pretend to the same rights and protections as US citizens, and this would apply, as well, to their children born as citizens of the same foreign nation as their parents.
No provision in the Bill of Rights says that it only applies to citizens. Some of the "privileges and immunities" of citizens are greater than those afforded to all people within U.S. jurisdiction, sure. (The right to vote being the most obvious one, along with the other obvious fact that only non-citizens can be deported.) Other than that, you are also with a "right of blood" line of reasoning in assigning citizenship of children to the country that their parents are citizens of. And that line of reasoning is rejected explicitly in the 14th Amendment so that the government cannot deny whole groups of people citizenship, even when they are born and live their whole lives in the U.S. The government would be able to do that by denying citizenship to the parents. And when the child born here grows up and has children of their own? Those children would not automatically be citizens either, because their parents weren't citizens.
You're looking for loopholes because you want to be able to say that children of immigrants not here legally aren't citizens, and all because you and Trump think that will discourage undesirables from migrating to the U.S. But you aren't considering all of the other loopholes that would create that the government could then use to start denying citizenship to groups that you don't think are undesirable now, but that some other future politicians find undesirable. And that is why we don't open up loopholes in the Constitution to serve a policy preference of the moment.
Your comment expresses a theory that may likely fail judicial review.
The clear language of the 14th amendment explicitly mentions CITIZENS, as in "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of CITIZENS of the United States … "
Citizens of foreign countries that are in the US illegally, who have defied and violated US jurisdiction and laws, are mentioned nowhere, and there is no justifiable reason to assume that any children born to them are included in that language such that they should be entitled to US citizenship in the absence of a brith certificate.
That was the original proposal that I was advocating. There is no certainty that the issuance of a birth certificate is a constitutional right, and in the absence of this right, an executive order can be issued that denies such issuance. Without this document, citizenship cannot be proven such that there would be no right to remain in the country and enjoy the rights and privileges of citizenship. Such a person would be legally non-existent.
This has been the idea all along!
The Bill of Rights, by the way, unlike the European Charter of Human Rights, was never intended to have universal, worldwide application. It was intended to apply only to citizens of the United States.
The 14th Amendment also says that no state can deprive any "person" of the equal protection of the law, not just citizens. "Citizen" is only used in connection with "privileges and immunities" and the right to vote in the U.S. Constitution, as far as I can tell, while it specifically uses "person" or "persons" or "the people" elsewhere. In some cases "the people" could reasonably be interpreted to mean citizens, in the sense that the people choose their government, an such, but "the people" shall also be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures, and I've never seen anyone argue that the 4th Amendment doesn't apply to non-citizens.
The Bill of Rights, by the way, unlike the European Charter of Human Rights, was never intended to have universal, worldwide application. It was intended to apply only to citizens of the United States.
Except that it has never been used only to protect citizens, and most of the provisions are restrictions that say what the government cannot do, regardless of whether they want to do it to a citizen or non-citizen.
You really seem to be starting from a conclusion that you don't want the kids of certain people to be citizens when born in the U.S., and then you follow whatever train of thought gets you there. Instead, you should start with the indisputable facts, like the text itself, and see where it leads you.
I'm advocating for an end to "birth tourism," which any reasonable person should believe is dishonest and unethical. It is simply cheating and exploits a loophole in the language of the constitution that did not anticipate this eventuality that bestows citizenship on the children of foreigners that should not be legitimately theirs.
I'm persuaded that the best way to discourage "birth tourism" is to challenge United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898) and get that ruling overturned.
With Trump's EO, he may be setting up such a challenge.