The Volokh Conspiracy
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The Fair Labor Standards Act Imposed A Ban On Child Labor That Was "Identical" To the Child Labor Provision Declared Unconstitutional In Hammer v. Dagenhart
Congress enacted a facially unconstitutional provision, and the Solicitor General could only ask the Supreme Court to overrule Hammer.
This week, I taught cases on enumerated powers from the Progressive Era and during the New Deal. In Hammer v. Dagenhart (1918), the Supreme Court declared unconstitutional a federal law that banned the transportation of good made by child labor. The Court found that this law was in fact an attempt to regulate local labor conditions, and the focus on shipping the goods was something of a pretext.
More than two decades later, the Supreme Court overruled Hammer in United States v. Darby (1941). This precedent upheld the constitutionality of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). Darby was largely an extension of NLRB v. Jones & Laughlin Steel (1935). These two decisions replaced the "direct effects" test with the "substantial effects" test. Under this regime, Congress could regulate any local activity that had a substantial effect on interstate commerce. The Court would also review such regulations with something akin to rational basis scrutiny, and require only a reasonable fit between the means Congress has taken, and the ends Congress is seeking to accomplish.
While teaching Darby, I wondered how Solicitor General Francis Biddle distinguished Hammer. So I pulled the government's brief. To Biddle's credit, he acknowledged that the FLSA contained a child labor provision that was "identical" to the law declared unconstitutional in Hammer:
. . . we recognize that the statute declared unconstitutional in Hammer v. Dagenhart is identical with the child-labor provisions in the present Act. And the prohibition against transporting goods produced by adults working under substandard labor conditions which is involved in this case cannot be distinguished in theory from the ban upon shipping goods produced by children.
The SG argued that subsequent precedent was "inconsistent" with Hammer, including Mulford v. Smith (1939). But the FLSA was enacted in 1938, the year before Mulford.
Of course, Biddle asked the Court to overrule Hammer, which it ultimately did:
It is submitted that the Court has abandoned the principles which controlled the decision in Hammer v. Dagenhart, and that the case should be expressly overruled.
But Congress and the President cannot anticipate the overruling of a Supreme Court precedent. Or at least they are not supposed to.
There you have it. Hammer declared a federal statute unconstitutional. Two decades later, Congress re-enacted an "identical" statute, and the President signed it into law, with no contrary precedent on the books.
I find it very difficult to get worked up over the current events of the day. If the President determines that a Supreme Court precedent is wrong (Humphrey's Executor for example), he can choose to take actions inconsistent with it, and let the Courts decide whether to maintain that precedent. Presidents from Jefferson to Lincoln to Roosevelt understood departmentalism. The ABA had a conniption when President George W. Bush issued a signing statement. Trump is making departmentalism great again.
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Wow. A post openly calling for Trump to defy the court if he does not like their ruling. How far we have dropped.
Dropped from the era of "the switch in time that saved nine"?
Franklin Roosevelt essentially told SCOTUS to let him do whatever he damn well pleased, or he would replace it -- something which Blackman neglects to mention here.
What is outrageous here is that these are lowly District judges acting as one person SCOTUSes -- they deserve to be ignored, if not impeached.
As DEMOCRAT Andrew Jackson once said, "John Marshall (Federalist) has made his decision, now let's see him enforce it." If Trump has the guts to stand up to this judicial tyranny, he'll be the fifth President on Mt. Rushmore.
“Your facts are uncoordinated.”
YOu and he are both wrong and guilty of the same logical fallacy.
When 2 people agree it can be on totally opposite reasons.
Remember the quote
“The last act is the greatest treason. To do the right deed for the wrong reason.”
― T.S. Eliot, Murder in the Cathedral
Did Roosevelt enforce the statute before the Supreme Court found it constitutional? That would be a major difference.
Agree Professor Blackman is trying to claim John Eastman’s role. Perhaps fortunately for us, his “brilliant” ideas are often found to be full of holes that even a small amount of self-reflection would have noticed.
I expect the Eastman rehabilitation tour to begin around here any day now
Yes: Darby was a criminal prosecution for violating the statute.
LAWLESS NORM-DEFYING FDR!!!
I'm no fan of Trump, but the notion that the other two branches of government cannot act based on their own views of the Constitution that differ from a Supreme Court precedent has, as the Professor's post indicates, a respectable pedigree, including the views of other Presidents of whom I am a fan. If I am content that they took such a position, I'm stuck with Trump's actions' inconsistency with a debatable Supreme Court precedent like Humphrey's Executor not being the ace of antitrumps on which to oppose his actions and will have to resort to other arguments, e.g., that Humphrey's Executor was rightly decided or that the actions are unconstitutional for other reasons or unwise for a whole host of possible reasons.
I find it very difficult to get worked up over the current events of the day.
Why would you? You are a Trump bootlicker.
TBF getting worked up when you’re winning is a very Trumpian thing. I mean they’re getting worked up over Politico Pro subscriptions. The WH said Democratic criticism of Musk was “unacceptable” and “alarming.”
So at some point Blackman is going to get worked up about something even if things are going his way.
You know, I was all ready to take you to task by pointing out that they were obviously talking about the (unacceptable) death threats. But I actually looked it up first, and no: she made it clear she was actually just talking about the harsh criticism.
Some of us are old enough to remember when criticisms of Obama's tan suit (which didn't even occur as advertised) were beyond the pale.
(This is not an endorsement or criticism of any one side here. Only the ridiculous notion that criticism can't be criticized with hyperbole unless it involves death threats.)
I'm curious exactly where you "looked it up first" to reach that conclusion. Here's the actual transcript with the actual context, and it's crystal clear that she's using the two crop-quoted words the media ran with in reference to the death threats and calls for violence. Indeed, the violent rhetoric was the entire premise of the question she was answering:
That is what I looked up. Did you read it?
Did I really need to write "emphasis added"?
It did seem strange that you highlighted portions of it without reading them, but not as strange as it would have been to highlight the parts that show that you’re wrong.
You're clearly busting at the seams with a Very Clever Take on the crystal-clear exchange I posted in its entirety, presumably to somehow turn it on its head so it might seem to line up with the shameless word-stitching and characterizations of the media headlines.
Don't keep us waiting any longer!
What he thought was the issue: (unacceptable) death threats.
What he actually found was being condemned: harsh criticism.
What you highlighted: "violent, enticing rhetoric"
Do you see the issue now?
Granted.
Hey, don't steal my trademarked phrase without crediting me!
A simple "h/t RHP" would work.
Well. . . It is one thing for the president to say: "I know that the courts found this wrong, but I think they were wrong. I will acknowledge the precedent and ask the court to overrule the prior ruling." It is another for the president to just ignore the prior precedent.
It is my sense that the president and his subordinates are ignoring everything that has gone before them. For example, with USAID, the administration wants to put in in Dep't. of State, but that is not what the law provides. They should recognize the law and say "we are going to do it anyways."
.
The problem with your suggested approach is that the US federal courts are prohibited by the constitution from issuing advisory opinions. They need an actual case or controversy in order to hear the case and issue a decision.
That means the president must act on his opinion that the existing precedent is wrong before he can ask the courts to reconsider the precedent.
I don't want an advisory opinion. I want the president to recognize that he is not acting according with precedent, cite that precedent, and explain why it does not apply. If someone disagrees, they can file suit.
What law are you thinking of here?
The law that sets up USAID as an independent agency.
And what law is that?
22 U.S.C. 6563
There are a number of independent agencies. What is the point here?
The legislature, executive, and states have a push/pull exercise with the courts. My concern with "departmentalism" is scope.
There will be some play in the joints. At some point, however, ignoring SCOTUS precedent is troubling following rule of law principles. It also can be wrong on specific facts. The birthright citizenship order is wrong on both grounds.
==
The link to the Darby brief is 177 pages long. I was suspicious of a couple of small excerpts.
we recognize that the statute declared unconstitutional in Hammer v. Dagenhart is identical with the child-labor provisions in the present Act. And the prohibition against transporting goods produced by adults working under substandard labor conditions which is involved in this case cannot be distinguished in theory from the ban upon shipping goods produced by children
Before saying that, the brief cites "considerations" that differentiate the two laws. It then says "apart from" those, the law could not be distinguished. Then, it says that the precedent has in effect be overruled, and the brief asks SCOTUS to do it completely.
This is a reasonable way of pushing the envelope. Something technically might be acceptable but an old precedent could apply if it was applied with particular force. It need not be.
The courts might ignore the alleged digression or take up the request to move the law forward some more by overruling/more clearly distinguishing the old precedent.
Again, each case is a matter of how far and merits. As a Trump bootlicker, JB will selectively endorse Trump policies. Others might have to use a bit more nuance.
This post highlights a problem with our system of government. There is not direct method for reconsidering a prior SCOTUS ruling. There could be an amendment, but that is over kill for a difference of interpretation. You could being a case, but that is indirect.
" You could being a case, but that is indirect."
Except the actual case or controversy rule means that the government would have to violate the prior ruling before there is a case to bring.
Yes. But there should be a better method. For example Congress or the President could have a way to petition SCOTUS directly to re-evaluate a prior precedent.
Or the SC could declare a new definition of controversy more aligned with the everyday (as opposed to legal) definition. It's not like they've strictly held the other branches to explicitly enumerated powers.
How to get there...Congress could pass a law providing for advisory opinions and specifying when the government needs to ask for them, someone could sue the government for not getting the opinion, then there's a case and a court can consider the question?
Well, very obviously IANAL.
As SCOTUS interprets the constitution, advisory opinions are not permissible at all.
No, an amendment that changed article 3 rules to allow courts to give advisory opinions would be appropriate and not overkill.
Modern political debaters act as if new amendments are impossible. That overstates the difficulty. We should be
campaigning for new amendments including (IMO) one to lower the difficulty of making new amendments.
Is Congress’s enactment of a statute whose constitutionality is suspect under existing Court precedent more seemly than Presidential actions whose constitutionality is suspect under existing Court precedent?
Just asking – I haven’t yet formed an opinion. But obvious differences quickly come to mind.
I think that the Court in some contexts asks for or implements so called "bright line rules" so everybody knows the stakes, the boundaries or what have you. We see that in criminal law a lot with things like Miranda because cops out in the field everyday have to apply these rules and bright line rules make sense.
Other subjects there seems to be an incrementalism. So instead of going from A (current precedent) to Z (new precedent) there are cases representing every letter between slowly moving from A to Z. The trend may be obvious but the various rules of standing or procedure or other doctrines require it to be a process.
I see Trump's approach (or rather his Heritage Foundation's guides approach) to try to steamroll straight to Z. They don't have time for incrementalism. So they ignore the usual gradual path. Which causes and is now causing chaos because legal or not, people in govt are acting on the executive orders as if that is the law. And yes, I have a problem with legal professionals BOLDLY declaring the law is what they wish it to be vs what the law at present actually is.
The birthright executive order being a prime example of that. I don't think that is very ethical conduct and it presumes an arrogance that is very much unearned.
Honestly, the birthright citizenship EO is exactly how I’d like to see the president take on adverse precedent. It sets up the conflict starkly and clearly, doesn’t try to interpose any jurisdictional obstacles to a court challenge, and gives a delay just long enough for courts to act in an orderly fashion but close enough to make them handle it expeditiously (and insure standing for the right plaintiffs). The actual problem is just that the theory is stupid and obviously wrong.
Setting aside whether Blackman has his historical facts right, and his bootlicking of Trump, there's a valid point: the Supreme Court is entitled to (and sometimes does) reverse its constitutional decisions. The only way to get that to happen is for a government official to violate a decision. (One could also pass a constitutional amendment, but then SCOTUS wouldn't reverse its earlier decision; that decision would just be superseded.)
That can cut either way, politically: if you're a conservative who wants Roe v. Wade overturned, the only way is to pass a law infringing on abortion rights and then ask SCOTUS to find the new law valid. If you're a liberal who wants Heller or Bruen overturned, the only way is to pass a gun control law that violates those decisions and ask SCOTUS to uphold it.
Thus, it can't be automatically wrong to violate such a decision.
(It goes without saying (well, it should!) that one should operate in good faith: pass the law, admitting that it violates the earlier decision, and bring a direct challenge. Don't try to pass 500 laws and hope that some of them slip through the cracks.)
Trump in 2025 is like FDR after he cleaned out the Jacksonians in Congress -- I can't remember if that was 1935 or 1937.
Josh’s obliviousness to the real-world consequences of clever lawyering is once again apparent. I feel sorry for his students.
I recommend this article today from the New York Times: “The World’s Richest Men Take On the World’s Poorest Children”, by Nicholas Kristof.
You don't have to feel too bad; it's not like Josh's students are destined for clerkships and high-profile legal jobs. Most of them will be divorce lawyers, personal injury attorneys, DUI mills, etc. - those that pass the bar and manage to get a job as attorneys, anyway.
I'd bet some of Prof. Blackman's students are indeed going on to clerkships and prestigious legal jobs. Criticizing a law professor for not teaching at a fancy-ass law school is not remotely as effective as criticizing him or her for having wacko ideas.
Most of Prof. Blackman’s students don’t even have full time jobs as lawyers by the time they graduate. It’s not the school isn’t “fancy-ass”, it’s that the school is so bad it got sued for trying to steal the name of a better (but still mediocre!) school. Pretending that there’s any realistic prospect these students will have high-level legal careers is just helping to further the con.
A lot of people have law degrees but not law jobs. A lot of them go into educational administration and are particularly bad at it.
I'm just quietly entertained by your belief in magic.
I’m actually not entirely anti-departmentalism. But the situation during the New Deal was different than the situation now. Back then, Congress wanted to press its lawmaking authority and the executive was on its side against the Court. And the court eventually lost the fight to the elected branches. But not entirely!
What we have now is where one department, Congress, just lets itself get beat up constantly by the Court and the Presidency. The current President and Court have put that dynamic into hyperdrive. The President isn’t thumbing his nose just at the court and prior precedent, he’s also doing it against Congress on multiple fronts. And Congress doesn’t seem to care. This Court has long disdained Congress and is happy to curtail it. Even its supposedly anti-executive admin law/MQ decisions are fundamentally anti-Congress. Basically saying Congress didn’t mean what it said and wouldn’t want to structure the government the way it does. But again, Congress doesn’t actually care right now.
Departmentalism isn’t bad. But it doesn’t work when one department just gives up.
Sigh, if only that was a thing, having 2 departments decide something in an area everyone thought was outside of the scope of judicial power to begin with (the war power and extra-territorial).
(Boumediene v. Bush)
Alas, nothing else matters when you have a philosopher justice as king!
That was Bush's failure to honor the law.
A valid court judgment is not to be ignored. An extrajurisdictional judgment isn't valid; it's blank paper.
Is Josh for child labor and against birthright citizenship? It wouldn't surprise me. I would ask Ilya Somin to try to, you know, "reason" with Josh, but, well, that would be like asking Ilya to "reason" with a fence post.
Can we at least acknowledge that one can be opposed to legal child labor yet still recognize that regulating the same is not an enumerated power of the federal government?
Can someone not observe the obvious that the broad reading of the interstate commerce clause is not supported by history and tradition?
There are a lot of things the feds could do but are/should be restricted by their limited grant of power as provided in the Constitution.
Josh, the example you've cited invites such an obvious line-drawing exercise that I wonder why you (i.e., the law professor with a light teaching schedule) don't raise or attempt to resolve it.
The unstated problem with the barrage of executive orders is the 60 vote hurdle in the Senate. No party can get anything remotely controversial passed through ordinary legislation ever except in those rare instances where one party has 60 Senate seats.
The country gets gridlocked and the only way anything can progress is by a "creative interpretation" of a law by executive order. And yes, that will sometimes hit headlong into SCOTUS precedent. There's nothing wrong with that as this article illustrates. That's how you get them to change precedent.
But if you want real reform and orderly government, get rid of the filibuster.
Getting rid of the filibuster at a time when Donald Trump controls the White House, House, and Senate seems like an odd choice.
The definition of controversial, according to MAGA, is anything the Democrats support. That is the problem.
I'm not MAGA. I have seen this go on for the last 25 years. Winning an election doesn't mean anything as far as legislation goes. A functioning government needs to be able to enact the policies of those who are elected. I don't care if it is Trump or Biden or Obama.
A government needs to govern. The 60 vote rule prevents that.
Three scenarios where this can play out:
1) Congress AND the executive are both clearly aligned against a prior SCOTUS precedent (Congress passes an infringing law, and executive enforces it).
2). Congress passes an infringing law, Executive refuses to enforce it.
3) Congress is silent, Executive issues an infringing Executive Order
Blackman is a really lousy person from whom to learn departmentalism, as he doesn't seem to understand it himself.
Will Baude is much better.
Greg Weiner (Law&Liberty), Robert Lowry Clinton (Heritage and Nat'l Review), Steve Calabresi, Larry Kramer, Kevin Walsh, and the Amar brothers are some others.
C'mon Josh, Just tell him you will suck his dick for a job.
i mean coming out in support of child labor
what is the point?