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No Right to Discovery as to Possible Selective Prosecution in Prosecution for Burning Police Car at George Floyd Protest
From U.S. v. Wilson, decided yesterday by Ninth Circuit Judge Danielle Forrest, joined by Judge Patrick Bumatay and District Judge James Donato (N.D. Cal.) (for a similar result in a case alleging selective prosecution against alleged white supremacist rioters, see U.S. v. Rundo (9th Cir. 2024)):
On May 31, 2020, Defendants-Appellees Nathan Wilson and Christopher Beasley allegedly joined a protest in Santa Monica, California [following the killing of George Floyd] and set fire to a police car. They were both federally indicted on one count of arson. Defendants moved to dismiss their indictment, arguing that they were unconstitutionally singled out for prosecution based on the perception that they held anti-government views.
The panel held (disagreeing with the trial court) that defendants weren't entitled to "discovery on their selective-prosecution claim":
The Executive Branch has "'broad discretion' to enforce the Nation's criminal laws." Thus, a "'presumption of regularity supports' … prosecutorial decisions and, 'in the absence of clear evidence to the contrary, courts presume that [prosecutors] have properly discharged their official duties.'" Selective-prosecution claims—assertions that a prosecutor has brought charges for reasons forbidden by the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment—require courts "to exercise judicial power over a 'special province' of the Executive." …
Given the separation-of-powers concerns at play, the standard for proving selective prosecution is "a demanding one." The Supreme Court has established a two-factor standard: the defendant must demonstrate "clear evidence," first that the decision to prosecute "had a discriminatory effect and[, second,] that it was motivated by a discriminatory purpose." "[T]he showing necessary to obtain discovery" on a selective-prosecution claim is "correspondingly rigorous," and is intended to be a "significant barrier to the litigation of insubstantial claims." …
To show discriminatory effect sufficient to warrant discovery, a defendant must "produce some evidence that similarly situated defendants … could have been prosecuted, but were not." … Defendants argued to the district court that they were unconstitutionally prosecuted based on a policy of the Trump Administration to prosecute an arbitrary class: "'individuals associated with protests who the government thought held anti-government views, regardless of what actual views they held.'" And they asserted that to evaluate the discriminatory effect of their prosecution, the district court should look to "a control group consisting of 'all individuals whom the [U.S. Attorney's Office] could charge federally for arson.'" …
Focusing on its selected control group—arsonists in the Central District of California—the district court turned to statistics. It noted that the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Central District brought four arson cases related to the George Floyd protests, two arson cases in the previous 10 years, and nine others in the decade before that. It also highlighted that the George Floyd protest cases were the first stand-alone arson charges brought since 2007. The district court further surveyed arson cases occurring in the area within the Central District overall, finding that between 2010 and 2019, an annual average of 3,500 arsons were reported and 559 were prosecuted. Based on these statistics, the district court found that the U.S. Attorney's Office was "obviously aware of and chose not to federally prosecute far more serious and damaging arsons" than the police-car burning for which Defendants were charged. As a result, it concluded that Defendants met their burden to show evidence of discriminatory effect.
This was an abuse of discretion because the district court "based its ruling on an erroneous view of the law." In defining the control group with only two shared facts—(1) arson (2) within the Central District—the district court did not account for many other facets of the crimes….
Here, Defendants did not offer evidence, and the district court did not make any findings, about the nature of the proposed comparators other than that they committed a shared crime in a shared location. There are no facts indicating, for example, which of the other arsons identified were eligible for federal prosecution or if the arsons involved government property, were committed by defendants with criminal records, were committed by defendants in connection with the expression of ideas, or were publicly touted by the defendants. Rather, the district court simply presumed, without evidence, that the comparator arsonists fell outside Defendants' defined arbitrary class of "'individuals associated with the protests who the government thought held anti-government views.'" This is insufficient to satisfy the "rigorous" standard that must be met before ordering the Government to produce selective-prosecution discovery….
[W]e resolve this case on the discriminatory-effect factor alone and decline to address whether Defendants presented evidence of discriminatory intent. {The discriminatory-intent factor is quite muddled. As the Sixth Circuit has recognized, "the appellate courts … have had difficulty articulating a clear and uniform standard for what constitutes 'some evidence' of discriminatory intent."} Because Defendants failed to meet their burden to produce some evidence that similarly situated individuals could have been prosecuted but were not, we reverse the district court's selective-prosecution discovery order and its dismissal of the Defendants' indictment without prejudice, and we remand for further proceedings consistent with this opinion.
Judge Bumatay joined the other judges, but added a concurring opinion:
While I join the majority opinion showing that the district court botched the discriminatory-effect analysis, it's worth explaining why the district court's discriminatory-purpose analysis was also flawed. The district court found that the Defendants proved "some evidence" of discriminatory intent because it concluded that the government "may have identified, as 'anti-government extremists,' individuals accused of engaging in criminal activity during the George Floyd protests." The district court held that targeting violent lawbreakers with "anti-government" views "qualifies as an arbitrary classification within the meaning" of the Fifth Amendment Due Process Clause. But that's wrong.
First, the government does not engage in arbitrary classifications when it singles out political violence for prosecution. Of course, prosecution "may not be deliberately based upon an unjustifiable standard such as race, religion, or other arbitrary classification, including the exercise of protected statutory and constitutional rights." But targeting political violence is not arbitrary—it's central to governance. The federal government has done so since the ratification of the Constitution. President Washington himself rode at the head of an army to suppress the Whiskey Rebellion. And federal military officers helped to stamp out the Ku Klux Klan during the early years of Reconstruction. Indeed, compelling evidence suggests that the Fourteenth Amendment's Equal Protection Clause is an explicit guarantee of federal protection against violence. See Randy E. Barnett & Evan D. Bernick, The Original Meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment: Its Letter and Spirit (2021).
It defies common sense and constitutional history to say that the Executive acts arbitrarily when it weeds out one of the "great natural and historical enemies of all republics[:] open violence." No one can deny the government's interest in combatting political violence. And it's also true that the government cannot eradicate all political violence. Thus, "[m]ere selectivity in prosecution creates no constitutional problem." Selecting some violent extremists for prosecution doesn't mean the government is acting with improper intent. And, of course, a government "investigation spurred by a high-profile event," like the wave of violent protests in the summer of 2020, "is not unconstitutional." … "[T]he Government's enforcement priorities … are not readily susceptible" to judicial review ….
Second, while no one denies the central importance of free speech, the First Amendment doesn't alter the government's discretionary authority to target political violence. While political speech is no doubt protected, "[t]he First Amendment does not protect violence." … So while the Defendants may have attempted to express some heartfelt political belief by burning the police car, they are not free from prosecution simply because they committed arson "in order to 'protest' the law." …
Third, the Defendants offered no evidence that the government prosecuted them for protected non-violent expression. Defendants cite several statements from President Trump and Attorney General William Barr. But these statements only communicated the intent to prosecute rioters for their violence—not for any political belief the government thought they expressed….
District Judge Donato likewise joined the other judges but also added his own concurring opinion:
There is no doubt that this claim "asks a court to exercise judicial power over a 'special province' of the Executive." "[S]o long as the prosecutor has probable cause to believe that the accused committed an offense defined by statute, the decision whether or not to prosecute … generally rests entirely in his discretion."
It is also true that a prosecutor's discretion is not "unfettered." "Selectivity in the enforcement of criminal laws is … subject to constitutional constraints," including but not limited to the fundamental right against viewpoint discrimination under the First Amendment and the equal-protection guarantee of the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment. A prosecutor may not charge a person based on "an unjustifiable standard such as race, religion, or other arbitrary classification," "including the exercise of protected statutory and constitutional rights."
The constitutional protections remain just as robust irrespective of whether the charged conduct involves violence, the destruction of property, or other mayhem. Perpetrators of violent conduct should be prosecuted, but the Constitution commands that prosecutors may not charge only those perpetrators whose race, religion, or political viewpoints are disfavored by the government….
[W]e must take care to ensure that the threshold a defendant must cross for obtaining discovery is not so high as to foreclose a plausible selective-prosecution claim before the merits are even examined…. [Nonetheless, n]either defendant produced evidence establishing a "colorable basis," for concluding that similarly situated individuals were not prosecuted for arson because they did not engage in the public expression of certain political viewpoints…. On remand, I see no reason why defendants may not seek to renew a selective-prosecution discovery request and claim with proper evidence….
I close by noting that neither … [the] precedents, nor our decision today, preclude district courts from asking the government to provide "some response," short of document productions or evidentiary hearings, when the evidence before the court is "sufficiently disturbing." … In this case, it is undisputed that the 2020 charges filed against Wilson and Beasley were the first stand-alone prosecutions for arson by the United States Attorney for the Central District of California since 2007. It is also undisputed that defendants were prosecuted after the then-President and Attorney General made public statements blaming the violence at George Floyd protests on individuals with leftist viewpoints such as antifa and anarchism, and threatening them with severe criminal penalties and long jail sentences. In these circumstances, the District Court could reasonably request a word of explanation from the prosecutors….
Alexander P. Robbins argued for the government.
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"arguing that they were unconstitutionally singled out for prosecution based on the perception that they held anti-government views."
Under federal law, anti-government violence is worse than ordinary violence. It is terrorism. See Sentencing Guidlines §3A1.4.
Is the Ninth Circuit actually getting less insane?
Since Trump got several appointments the Ninth Circuit often defies its reputation. The en banc court will intervene when a conservative panel makes the wrong call in a case involving guns or abortion.
John F Carr, I don't understand the argument about selective prosecution. Who cares what they said? Who cares about what political speech came out of their mouths?
They torched a cop car. You go to jail. That seems to be the thrust of Judge Bumatay's opinion.
I am scratching my head that it got this far.
Sure you do. You've routinely seen it here: the J6 people are being prosecuted while BLM rioters were not, and that's unfair, so J6 people should be excused. (The premise is false, but that's the argument.)
Hypothetically, say that a prosecutor announced such a policy: any Trump supporter who assaults a police officer will be prosecuted, and any Democrat who does so will not, as a matter of social justice. You don't think that would be problematic?
David...These jokers torched a cop car...WTF is up with that? Maybe I am dumb, but torching a cop car ain't speech, it is societal vandalism. Race, ideology, political belief is irrelevant...you're gonna get prosecuted and thrown in the clink. I just don't see the selectivity.
I agree about the false premise, as you state it. It is bullshit. One does not excuse the other.
It is of course true that their acts were not speech. But if they were prosecuted solely because of their speech, that could be a problem. To make it even more stark, switch it to race, which you also mentioned. Suppose a DA had a formal, announced policy: black burglars will be prosecuted, and white burglars will not be. Even though the black burglars may be guilty, they would have a selective prosecution defense.
Under the defendants’ theory, would the person who shot the UnitedHealth CEO have a selective prosecution claim if he could show that he was motivated by animosity towards insurance companies? If I burned down John Smith’s house, would I have a selective prosecution claim if I could show that, unlike otherwise similarly situated arsons of other people’s homes I was motivated by animosity specifically directed at John Smith?
Would I be entitled to discovery on mu claims?
In general, evidence of hatred of X is evidence of motive in a prosecution for a crime against X aand hence tends ro be evidence of defendant’s guilt, not evidence of selective prosecution or misconduct on the prosecution’s part.
No. The defendants' theory is about the motive of the prosecutor, not the motive of the defendants. If the UHC CEO's assassin could show that the prosecutors were targeting him because of his anti-insurance views, then it would be selective prosecution (according to the defendants' theory here, which is just wrong).
Fair enough. But it would he entirely rational for prosecutors to regard people who use violence to make public political points as more disruptive to society than people who use violence to settle purely private scores.
The thing that bothers me are the reports that the Feds intend to prosecute for the exact same crimes...
Not same facts but same crimes.
I wholeheartedly support the notion that prosecution of anti-government violence is a legitimate government purpose, and ought to be announced forthrightly. I extend that even to insistence that prosecutors should be forthright and explicit to say political prosecutions (but not partisan political prosecutions) must follow legitimate charges of explicitly political crimes.
I think the Garland Justice Department erred by its choice to insist publicly and repeatedly that the Trump political crimes would be prosecuted according to de-politicized norms. That is too great a step toward delegitimizing the notion of political crimes, which will remain indispensable. Treason and insurrection will always remain political crimes, along with stuffing ballot boxes and other lesser political offenses.
That said, does anyone else see in this case an implication in the decisions and concurrences that the murder of George Floyd occurred in pursuit of a legitimately political purpose? Seems to me if cops commit criminal murder, they can hardly be doing it on the basis of a justifiable defense of political process.
Conversely, if forthright political prosecutions are necessary and permissible, that cannot justify any implication of judicial support for actually criminal enforcement behavior.
Of course I get that burning the police car remains criminal arson, whatever the reason for doing it. I am just not comfortable with any judicial implication that encourages politicians to demonstrate political toughness by singling out protestors for prosecutions which the prosecutors would otherwise not pursue. And I think prosecutors would be wise to use their own discretion to draw that line pretty sharply.
No.
Any other dumb questions?
I don’t think the legitimacy of any political purpose should matter to this case. The principle is fundamental to the concept of a neutral, imdependent judiciary guided by a neutral rule of law.
People protesting George Floyd’s death had no more right to burn a police car than people protesting Biden’s election had to enter and trash the Capital building. It doesn’t matter in the slightest whether or not you agree with the aims of one protest or the other.
This can’t be right. Conservative commenters have been complaining for years that no one was prosecuted over the George Floyd/BLM protests.
Most cases in New York and Washington state were dropped.
Let's just go on record to say that Floyd was a violent thug whose death made the world a better place.
Most cases in New York and Washington state were dropped.
That's because they did big sweeps of arrests in the George Floyd riots, mostly without evidence. Obviously the vast majority of those get dropped.
Compare to Jan 6, where pretty much nobody got arrested until later. Obviously, they only tracked down and charged the people for whom they had enough evidence to prosecute.
He's moved the goalposts.
I'm not as upset by that as you are. If he keeps moving his goalposts, eventually he'll be somewhere rational. I don't expect him to wake up to rationality all at once.
I don't expect him to wake up to rationality at all, really. But still, moving the discourse step by step away from inanity seems positive, no?
Also, if someone can make a good argument even after conceding a thing, you haven't gotten to the end zone anyway - you've just got a first down. You're moving the chains, not the goalpost.
Insanity? How's your bank account as of today?
Randal, Jan 6 was intended to be "shock and awe" and the extent of Federal resources expended are jaw dropping. It's been admitted that the FBI dropped investigations into everything from child sex trafficking to anti terrorism to go after trespassing offenses -- and not everyone in the FBI was happy about that.
They used credit card data to identify everyone who was in DC that day and investigated all of those people. A similar level of effort using similar tactics would identify a whole bunch of BLM rioters.
But would it not be a better use of limited resources to pursue child sex trafficking and potential terrorism???
To characterize trashing the Capital building in order to intimidate members of Congress and the Vice President into not certifying the election results as a mere act of “trespassing” is like characterizing burning an occupied police car as merely unlawfully lighting a match, as if the arsonists had intended to do nothing more than smoke a cigarette in a no-smoking zone.
What is a cultist to do? Obviously they support the defendants and think it unfair that BLM protestors weren't sufficiently prosecuted, but this was a Trump prosecution, which must be definitionally right. Oh, the agony!
I don’t have much of a problem with prosecuting people who commit high profile crimes in the public eye. They do so (in part) because the crime is high profile and gets noticed. The gov’t should be able to respond to that in a way that’s also high profile and gets noticed, even if the prosecution is selective.
That fits comfortably under the broad umbrella of prosecutorial discretion as far as I’m concerned.
I agree with that. I also don't see any issue with coming down harder on blacks, as that community needs more deterrence.
Pity the US Constitution disagrees with you on that one. Why do you hate the US Constitution?
Equal protection only applies on an individual basis, not on a group one. Anyway, the 14th Amendment was improperly ratified and is thus not part of the Constitution.
Look everyone, it's the new most retarded ever post on what purports to be a law blog.
Totally. Federal income tax is unconstitutional too. You can just stop paying it. It says so in the internet.
And it's also true that the government cannot eradicate all political violence. Thus, "[m]ere selectivity in prosecution creates no constitutional problem." Selecting some violent extremists for prosecution doesn't mean the government is acting with improper intent.
This seems a much more solid argument than "the government only prosecutes 600 out of thirty billion arsons, therefore there cannot be wrongdoing."
What I don't understand is the nonchalant dismissal of car fires.
Those are serious fires because of the potential for the potential of upwards of 18 gallons of gasoline to be suddenly released in what has the potential of becoming a BLEVE -- Boiling Liquid, Expanding Vapor Explosion. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM0jtD_OWLU
Car tires ignite at 750 degrees and burn at least that hot, so when they explode, sending shrapnel of chunks of burning rubber outwards, that too can be less than fun.
Car fires are serious -- firefighters respect them.
Sigh. No. Cars don't BLEVE.
Cars also don't explode when they go off a cliff like bad 1970s action movies, which is probably why you're confused.
BLEVEs are real, it's a physics thing. The physics requires an already-overheated liquid (the "BL" part) that experiences a sudden pressure drop and therefore immediately phase changes to vapor (the "EV" part) in the presence of an ignition source that causes it to explode (you guessed it, "E").
Car gas tanks are not pressurized enough to allow the gasoline to be heated enough to form a BLEVE. BLEVEs occur with pressurized tanks - liquid propane is one of the more common ones. The mechanism is pretty basic: the pressurized tank is in a fire, which heats up the pressurized contents to a temp above boiling temperature at 1 atm pressure. The heat eventually causes the tank to fail, and suddenly there's a huge volume of superheated liquid that flashes to vapor ... while in the middle of a fire. Which is why liquid propane tanks have pressure release valves.
Also, I got to see this intentional BLEVE in person in 2006 ... it was huge fun! Also really hot, and I wasn't anywhere near the front.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9vYE7B1_PU
That's unpossible!
"Car gas tanks are not pressurized enough to allow the gasoline to be heated enough to form a BLEVE. "
The gasoline is boiling in the tank BE, the plastic gas tanks on most of today's vehicles will eventually fail, and said boiling liquid gasoline will quickly become expanding vapor EV when it hits the hot pavement under the car, even if the pavement itself isn't already on fire. Now we can quibble about the E, and I'll freely concede that it will be (at best) subsonic and with a whole lot less complete combustion (i.e. much black smoke), but would you want to be standing next to a burning car if even 10 gallons of gasoline were suddenly dumped on the ground?
One more thing about the exploding propane tank -- it did NOT explode from overpressurization -- it had a functioning overpressure dump valve that was venting at some set pressure and that's why the flame was occasionally shooting out the top.
What was happening was the liquid propane was keeping the steel of the tank (relatively) cool, but once the liquid level dropped below that of the flame, it heated up the metal. It was just like the WTC collapses on Sept 11th -- you don't have to heat steel hot enough to actually melt it, it loses structural strength at temperatures far below that.
You still aren't going to have an explosion inside the tank -- no oxygen and a higher pressure inside will prevent any from entering, but much like taping explosive to the outside of the tank will send shrads flying, an explosion EXTERNAL to the tank is what happened.
Car tanks *are* pressurized so that the gasoline vapors can go to the carbon canister instead of into the atmosphere -- this is why you will trip the MIL (check engine) light if you leave your gas cap off.
Agreed a car tank is not a propane tank, agreed a car tank failing is probably not even technically an "explosion" and definitely subsonic. But would you want to be standing next to it without full bunker gear and an air tank? Or really, even then if you didn't have to....
Ed, Zarniwoop gave you a good explanation. What happens in car fires is well known. You don't have to (incorrectly) make deductions from first principles.
Car gas tanks are not pressurized enough to allow the gasoline to be heated enough to form a BLEVE.
Leave BLEVE out of it. That is not the only way you can get an impressive explosive event, and an automobile fuel tank can deliver one.
The danger gets maximal if you have a nearly empty tank, with the space above the liquid filled with an optimal ratio of fuel vapor and air—which ought not be a normal occurrence, but can happen.
I don't claim if that ignites it will blow the car into the sky. I have seen a car traveling on a highway in front of me go from a backfire, followed by an explosive-looking event which blasted gas tank fragments onto the road, to a car fully engulfed in flames from end to end, in about 30 seconds. I say 30 seconds because the driver escaped unharmed, and I don't see how that could have happened if it were less. It seemed less.
Perhaps tangentially relevant, try this if you have an oxyacetylene setup, and a lot of nerve. Adjust the flame for a balanced mix of oxygen and acetylene. Leaving the gas flowing, snuff out the flame in a pail of water, then use the continuing gas flow to inflate an ordinary party balloon, maybe twice as large as your fist. Reignite the torch, toss the balloon into the air, and touch it off with the torch.
I saw that done as a demonstration in a largish welding trade-school workshop, serving about 25 students. The point—be careful with explosive gases—was made. The explosion delivered not just a brilliant white flash, and a bang louder than an indoor gunshot, but also a perceptible shock wave. That knocked loose a hail of paint chips from the ceiling. It alarmed dozens of folks in other shops throughout a large building, who raced to be of assistance. They arrived in a state of agitation, supposing a major disaster must have occurred.
Acetylene is more energetic than gasoline. Compared to air, pure oxygen is a ferocious oxydizer. But still, it wasn't a very big balloon. I doubt so dangerous a demo would happen today. This took place in the West, near mining communities where the typical 4th of July celebration featured dynamite.
One other thing -- at STP, Propane boils at -44 degrees F.
Mythbusters tried as hard as they could to get a car to explode. They could not.
Ask NBC, they know how to make cars explode.
How to be a conspiracy theorist with Brett, lesson 6:
Organizations remain guilty of misconduct and are still corrupt after decades have passed, and everyone involved is dead or gone. This historical narrative of guilt means you can ascribe misconduct to the organization until the end of time. This works from any political perspective: Hardcore progressive? Disney was pals with Nazis. Hardcore MAGA? NBC faked a car fire once. Hardcore libertarian? AT&T sent its own agents on criminal raids when they were a monopoly.
Indeed. When in college in the late 80s/early 90s many folks boycotted Domino's Pizza, because the founder/owner donated heavily to Operation Rescue.
I am fine with the occasional Domino's slice these days (though there's better pizza out there, esp. if one buys local instead of chain). But I have to occasionally tell way-too-PC folks who are inexplicably still boycotting the chain to just stop already with ~25+ year old activism and join the present decade:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/domino-theory/
Hey Brett, NBC's exploding car lawsuit is even older than that ... I invite you to join us in the present decade.
Right. I resumed eating at Cracker Barrel after the company abandoned its policy of firing gay employees. But I still don't patronize Chick-fil-A.
NG, I never knew you had a personal boycott against Chick-fil-A.
In a pinch, Chick-fil-A's broiled chicken breast, no breading, is a keto-ish alternative if you are on the road and have no other alternative (other than continued hunger). They're qualitatively better than most other fast food chains you see on hwys.
Separating out Brett's predictable "the MSM-is-always-eeevil!!1!" comment stretch from the physics, on the physics he's exactly correct in the precise way Grampa Ed (and bad 1970s action movies) are completely wrong. You have to load a car with pyro to get it to explode; BLEVEs from gasoline-powered cars just aren't a thing. Sorry to kill your latest weird boner fuel, Grampa.
So:
+1 for "Grampa Ed is delusional per usual"
-1 for gratuitous dig.
No points, but no demerits.
Brett, in fairness to NBC, steel *does* produce sparks when dragged across pavement -- snowplows at highway speeds produce a *lot* of sparks which are quite impressive at night. So the steel of the wreckage going across pavement could produce sparks, although the fire in one wreck was attributed to a broken headlight.
The old sealed-beam headlights would still burn for a minute or so after the glass was broken, they'd burn very very hot and this was considered the ignition source of one fatal fire. In reality, *something* touched off the spilt gasoline and this probably was the best guess of what had done it.
NBC could have wrecked a thousand trucks and one of them would have EVENTUALLY caught fire in an impressive enough fashion for their show. They just rigged the demonstration so they could be sure it would happen. Fraudulent, yes -- but it doesn't mean the safety issue didn't exist.
Today they could do the whole thing with CGI and claim that it was a re-enactment of an actual wreck where GM paid a six figure judgement to the family of the victim. NBC still lied but it did not negate the fact that people had died.
According to the government, TWA 800 was the explosion of an empty kerosene tank -- your mileage may vary.
But mythbusters was putting bullets into a gas tank. Even tracer rounds wouldn't have done anything, there is no oxygen in there.
There is plenty down below the car...
"here is no oxygen in there"
You start out with a full fuel tank, surrounded by an atmosphere that is 20% oxygen. You gradually pump the gasoline out of the tank without adding anything to the tank. Either the atmosphere enters the tank, or the tank implodes.
There are systems for combat aircraft that put various not-oxygen gases into the tanks as the fuel is used, but my cars at least have never had one of those.
What you perhaps meant to say is that the mixture in the tank is not within the explosive limits, which is generally true, which is why car gas tanks almost never explode (contra acetylene, which has an explosive limit from 2.5 to 100% - perhaps the widest of any material, which is why the common welding class demo Mr. Lathrop mentions works).
re: "Either the atmosphere enters the tank, or the tank implodes."
No, the fuel vaporizes as pressure decreases, filling the tank with fuel vapors but still no oxygen. Depending on temperature, the tank might be slightly lower than the surrounding atmospheric pressure but nowhere close to the point of implosion.
Note that you can create an implosion with other fuels - just not gasoline.
By gum, you may be right. Gasoline has a lot higher vapor pressure than I imagined. I get three demerits for not checking before posting.
(at least for some blends and temps. This chart lists vapor pressures at different temps, and note that they are inverse with temperature, which would be pretty odd, except I think 'gasoline' is a blend that changes with expected ambient temps (see footnote E). If you have that summer gas (465 mm at 60 degC if I'm understanding the chart), that's only 9 PSI, so with a 15-9=6PSI differential I think a lot of tanks wouldn't survive; that seems like a lot of differential given that the shape of most gas tanks aren't good to resist compression.
FWIW, there are empirical reports of tank implosions.
Lot's more complicated than I would have guessed. I know I have had gas cans with sides significantly bowed in, and obviously negatively pressurized when opened, as in the sides suddenly snap out.)
The vapor is why vapor recovery nozzles are required for gasoline pumps, but not for those dispensing Diesel or kerosene.
Remember too that military planes (actually all jet engines) burn a form of kerosene. Not gasoline.
This seems wrong to me. A high standard of proof makes sense but requiring that proof in order to even conduct the discovery necessary to get that proof? That seems logically impossible.
It's a standard feature of US jurisprudence, AFAICT, like on appeals requiring proof of innocence not merely disproving evidence of guilt.
I understand your reaction, but the point is that anyone can make an accusation at any time. (And convicted criminals frequently have a lot of time.) You don't get discovery just because you allege something.
How does setting fire to a Police car become a Federal issue instead of being a State issue?
Perhaps a video was posted on YouTube, hence commerce clause, etc. etc 🙂
The car belonged to a police department that receives federal funding. Just as a hint in the future, first try looking at the opinion where this is mentioned explicitly. Failing that, look at the charged crimes. In this case, "destruction of property owned by an institution that receives federal funding" should give some indication of what the federal hook is.
Which will be interesting when Trump 47's USAs in blue states start using this to prosecute Team Hamas -- because it would apply to anyone who does anything at any college or university other than Hillsdale or Grove City Colleges.
This would include MA, NY, CA and other blue states with leftist IHEs. This could be interesting...
What gVOR08 said. I've been assured for years by the commenters here that there were no George Floyd prosecutions. This case must be a communal hallucination.
I suppose it's true that the "result" is similar -- the appellate panel rejects plaintiffs' claim of selective prosecution. But the respective plaintiffs' claims are far from equivalent.
In Rundo, plaintiffs alleged that, while it prosecuted them, the government declined to prosecute their opponents (who actually started the fight?). They alleged that the government did so because it disliked plaintiffs' political views, but didn't dislike (or didn't dislike as much) the political views of their opponents. (I can't think of a clearer example of "selective prosecution.")
In this case, on the other hand, plaintiffs argue that the government chose to prosecute them because they're leftists. Of course, unlike the plaintiffs in Rundo, they're unable to point to any non-leftist people who set police-cars on fire (or otherwise engaged in anti-government violence) whom the government refused to prosecute. Not much of a "selective prosecution" claim, if you ask me. (Judge Bumatay takes it apart quite nicely.)