The Volokh Conspiracy
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Liberty and Parental Rights
[I'm putting together a post on a specific parental rights question, and it reminded me of this post of mine from 2011, which I thought I'd rerun.]
Some comments on recent posts have suggested that libertarians should support a broad notion of parental rights. I haven't written at any length on parental rights (except as to the special case of parental free speech rights), and my thinking on this is far from definite; and of course I surely can't speak for libertarians generally. But as somehow who is in many (though by no means all) matters a presumptive libertarian, I thought I'd say a bit about this. Note that I'm speaking in this post about what I think the right rules ought to be, not about what we should understand our Constitution to say with regard to this question.
1. To begin with, though parental rights are seen by the law as part of parent's "liberty," it's an unusual sort of liberty. The strongest case for liberty arises when people seek the right to do what they please with their own bodies, labor, and property, and the bodies, labor, and property of consenting adult partners (whether sexual, familial, business, or otherwise).
But parental rights are the rights to control someone else's actions. My child is not me. He is not my property. That I have the right to, say, alter my own body (or hire someone to do it for me) or to choose spiritual healing over traditional medical treatment doesn't tell us much about whether I should have the right to alter another person's property, or deny another person medical treatment—even if the other person is my minor child.
2. Moreover, parental rights don't just involve the government refraining from action (e.g., by not arresting me for false imprisonment when I physically restrain my child, the way it would if I tried to do that for an adult). Rather, they sometimes involve the government taking affirmative coercive steps to support parents' rights.
The law often makes it a crime to entice minors from their parents, even when the minors are happy to go. It lets police forcibly return runaway minors. Some statutes threaten children "who persistently or habitually refuse[] to obey the reasonable and proper orders or directions of his or her parents, guardian, or custodian" with being adjudged "ward[s] of the court." And some court decisions go so far as ordering people not to contact a particular minor. See Brekke v. Wills (Cal. App. 2005) (upholding injunction barring sixteen-year-old girl's ex-boyfriend, whom mother considered bad influence, from contacting the girl, partly on grounds that injunction helped protect "[mother's] exercise of her fundamental right as parent to direct and control her daughter's activities"). If parents are legally allowed, for instance, to decide not to provide a child with certain medical treatment, a doctor who wants to provide such treatment would be legally barred from providing it.
Thus, parental liberty involves (A) suspension of the normal rules—which most libertarians approve of—barring one person from coercing another, plus (B) special rules that outright forbid people from certain actions with other people's children. This is pretty far from things such as liberty of speech, sexual liberty (whether or not one thinks such liberty should be constitutionally protected liberty), liberty of contract, and so on.
So the libertarian case for parental rights has to rest on something other than the basic "my body, my labor, my choices" libertarian perspective. To be sure, the parent may say "my child," but that's a different sense of "my" than in "my body." Someone's being "my brother" or even "my spouse" doesn't give me rights over that person. If someone's being "my child" gives me rights over the child, there needs to be some better explanation than "liberty" in the abstract.
3. My sense is that the strongest such explanation, at least from a libertarian perspective, should stem not from claims about parents' inherent liberty to control their children's upbringing, and more from claims about what's best for children given the limitations of government. The argument would go something like this: Children, up to a certain age, need someone to make decisions for them, with an eye towards putting them in the best position to exercise their liberty once the children grow up. Someone needs both to shield them from dangers that may keep them from surviving to adulthood (disease, accidental death, starvation, criminal attack), and to positively provide them the things they need (education, self-control, and the like).
That someone can be the parents, or some interested third party—in principle, perhaps a family member or someone else, but (systemically) likely government officials. But parents, generally speaking, are much more likely to love the child and to know the child than any third party would. There are good reasons to suspect this from an evolutionary biology perspective, but beyond this, that is generally what we see in the world around us: Parents generally spend tremendous amounts of time, money, and effort on their own children, much more so than any third party is likely to do (including we taxpayers, if asked to support others' children).
The trouble is that we know that sometimes parents make decisions that harm their children a great deal. Sometimes it is because the parents are mentally unstable, drug-addled, unable or unwilling to control their anger or lust, or greedy for what their children could provide for them (e.g., by putting the children to work in particular ways that might interfere with the children's education and thus harm the children's future career prospects). And sometimes it is because the parents hold moral or religious views that we think are badly wrong: for instance, if the parents insist on cutting off their daughters' genitals, or refuse to provide life-saving medical treatment to their children.
To be sure, the parents may disagree, for instance thinking that their prayer is more temporally effective than medical treatment, or that even if it is less effective temporally, it's better to save the child's soul even at the risk of the death of the body. But we can't just fall back to "all parents have their own views, and who are we to say that these parents are wrong?" The parents, after all, are deciding not about their own bodies and lives, but about the bodies and lives of other human beings. We need not stand by while those human beings are seriously hurt (in our view), just because the parents think that what they're doing is good.
Moreover, the question of course isn't whether parents should always decide what's best for their children or the government should always decide. Rather, the question is how to combine the possible decisionmakers (or at least that's the question once we reject the extremes of letting parents kill their children or just taking children away from their parents to be raised by government officials—the Rome and Sparta options, to vastly oversimplify history here).
Should the rule, for instance, be
- That parents' decisions always prevail unless the legal system concludes that there is serious likelihood of physical harm to the child (with physical harm defined by the majority view)?
- That they prevail unless the legal system concludes that there is serious likelihood of physical or psychological harm to the child?
- That they prevail unless the legal system concludes that the decisions are against the child's best interest?
- Some mixture of these rules, perhaps depending on the degree of likely harm, the likelihood that the parents' decisions about those particular activities would be unsound, and the likelihood that government officials' decisions about those particular activities would be unsound?
My tentative inclination is to say that there should indeed be a pretty strong presumption in favor of parental control, precisely because on balance parents will usually do a much better job than government officials. But I'm inclined to accept that the presumption would be rebutted more often than when someone is seeking only the right to control himself, and not another human being.
Finally, note that I've spoken here only of libertarian arguments. I have not discussed conservative arguments based on a strong presumption in favor of preserving our particular society's longstanding traditions. And I have also not discussed the particular utilitarian arguments that stem from recognizing that most parents actually want to raise their children, and to make decisions for their children, and thus derive utility from having broad parental rights and disutility from having those rights restrained. I'm inclined to say that this particular utilitarian analysis ought not count for libertarian purposes, though perhaps I'm mistaken on that score.
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Some languages have a strong grammatical distinction between different forms of possession. You might have to use a different form of "my" in the different examples.
We have a weak form of this in English. Possessive pronouns are preferred over articles for body parts still attached to a person. We tend to say "his hand" rather than "the hand". On the other hand, "the kids" is fine in place of "my kids".
I suspect it is more the legal concept of "best interest of the child" -- and hence it is "the child" and not [possessive] child.
I would suggest looking at three things --
FIRST the truancy laws that hold a parent criminally responsible for the child's truancy. They are not enforced much anymore because of my second point, but once were and the point I have seen raised in the educational literature is that they were more an effort to provide jobs to teachers than to help children, who would otherwise be educated at home.
This very quickly goes into the weeds with Horace Mann and the Normal School (teacher's college) Movement of the early 19th Century which I will summarize as replacing the hiring of random people to teach with hiring people who are trained to teach and certified by the state as such.
In the latter 19th Century it became a fight over which version of the Bible would be read in school -- the Protestant King James or the Catholic Revised Standard (?). Catholic parents claimed the right to raise their children as Catholics with the Catholic translation of documents written in Aramaic, Greek, & Latin.
SECOND the current child protective laws and the legal principle of "best interest of the child." IANAA but AM an Education professional and can tell you, respectfully, that you are incorrect about the law, at least in Massachusetts & Maine.
There is no presumption of parent control outside of "best interest of the child" and the belief that family is better. If you want to see a sad example of this, look into the case of Justina Pelletier who was essentially kidnapped by Boston's Children's Hospital and the stack of litigation in both Massachusetts and Connecticut (where she and her parents lived). See https://www.the-sun.com/news/6904764/justina-pelletiers-medical-kidnapping-boston-hospital-misdiagnosed/
THIRD the extent to which parents once had a property interest in their children. Before LBJ's Great Society, the law was that the eldest son was legally responsible for providing for his aged parents. People invested in children as a form of retirement.
PS: My favorite is a Kentucky AG ruling that a married girl under the age of 15 can not be truant because her duties to her husband were more important than duty to attend school.
This meant they had girls marrying at age 14 if not younger....
It was subsequently reversed recently and replaced with her husband (and not parents) liable for her truancy.
Before LBJ's Great Society, the law was that the eldest son was legally responsible for providing for his aged parents.
Really? Citation, please.
I'm not sure how to cite a Personal Communication from someone who is now deceased.
"Dr. Ed's ass, 2024."
.
Actually, I found the statute -- 273 MGL20 -- it appears to still be in effect:
Any person, over eighteen, who, being possessed of sufficient means, unreasonably neglects or refuses to provide for the support and maintenance of his parent, whether father or mother, residing in the commonwealth, when such parent through misfortune and without fault of his own is destitute of means of sustenance and unable by reason of old age, infirmity or illness to support and maintain himself, shall be punished by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. No such neglect or refusal shall be deemed unreasonable as to a child who shall not during his minority have been reasonably supported by such parent, if such parent was charged with the duty so to do, nor as to a child who, being one of two or more children, has made proper and reasonable contribution toward the support of such parent.
https://malegislature.gov/laws/generallaws/partiv/titlei/chapter273/section20
Dunno about DrE's specific claim, but filial responsibility lawsare still a thing in a fair number of states.
My sense is they are rarely invoked.
(used to joke to my parents that was why I moved to WA)
From what I have seen on the internet, they are sometimes included in fine print of nursing home contracts, with the nursing home then suing the children for what Medicaid didn't pay.
For what it is worth.
The list of options could be broader. Before 1, there might be “parents’ decisions prevail unless there has been physical harm” or even “unless there has been a pattern of physical harm”. And after 3, there might be “parents’ decision-making rights prevail unless the legal system concludes that those rights are against the child's best interest”, since the state may go beyond counteracting individual decisions and may remove legal parenthood entirely.
I think at this point you have to start taking into account that some social features predate and are logically prior to both government and moral theorizing. We are not just imperfectly rational beings, we are biological entities with biological drives and instincts.
The political or moral theory that contradicts these drives and instincts is going to be a failure, even if it would make sense for a society of immaterial perfect intellects.
Parents are not just responsible for their children because that is in some sense a convenient and efficient accommodation for a temporary period of diminished capabilities on the part of those children. Parents are driven to take care of their children by biological imperatives in a way that others are not. Those same biological imperatives will cause parents to react very negatively indeed to efforts to hand that responsibility over to somebody else.
I've occasionally said that governments do not respect religious liberty out of high minded motives, but instead because religion is one of the few things that can drive large numbers of people to oppose government, so government has to tread cautiously about it.
This is the same sort of thing: Government messes with parenthood at its peril, parenthood predates and is more fundamental than government, it motivates people on a basic level political ideology can't match.
JW parents refuse a blood transfusion for their child. If the transfusion isn't performed, the child dies.
What should be done?
I'm not saying you can't justify over-riding parental rights for cause. I'm saying you'd better have a high bar to doing so, if you don't want some major push-back from parents.
The OP treats parents as barely more than incidentally related to the child.
They argue that the child's immortal soul will die if the child receives the transfusion. Without saying your religion is superior to theirs, how do you object?
Well, you can't.
It's a fundamentally difficult problem of lie drawing in a situation that varies continuously, but we want to treat like a binary.
It's unavoidable. FWIW I wonder whether there's an overlap between people who are opposed to abortion in all cases, and people who would let the child die in these instances.
In terms of "will of God", both are not inconsistent.
An ELECTIVE abortion is not God's decision, while the person dying for the lack of a transfusion is.
I think letting the child die is a STUPID decision, but it's not inconsistent.
Well, carrying out the will of God can be an action.
Is letting the child die merely stupid, or is it evil? I am not convinced that there's any great moral distinction between actions and inactions where they lead to immoral outcomes where the action itself doesn't require much effort.
And I think that a very imperfect compromise is to say to parents in such cases, yes, we understand your religious beliefs and arguments, and when you go to prison for 30 years you will have plenty of time to continue to worship your god and follow his rules.
"JW parents refuse a blood transfusion for their child. If the transfusion isn't performed, the child dies."
That would seem to call for an individualized, case-by-case determination.
In Matter of Hamilton, 657 S.W.2d 425 (Tenn.Ct.App. 1983), the appellate court reviewed authorities from other states and concluded that the state as parens patriae has a special duty to protect minors and, if necessary, make vital decisions as to whether to submit a minor to necessary treatment where the condition is life threatening. Id., at 429.
The Supreme Court of Illinois opined in In re E.G., 133 Ill. 2d 98, 111 (Ill. 1989), that:
We saw in the case of Justina Pelletier where the parents lost custody simply for following the recommendation of the kid's regular doctor instead of the doctor that saw the kid in the ER.
Brett, there's more -- is society composed of individuals or of families?
The UNDHR says the family is the fundamental unit of society.
True, except nitpick: it's the UDHR; the 'U' is for "Universal," not "United Nations."
I think the relevant concept here is one that libertarians have generally rejected, and the courts and society as a whole came to reject along with them, the concept of institutional rights. In the institutional rights view, parental rights belong not to parents as individuals but to parents as members of an institution with a special role in society.
The high water mark of the institutional rights concept was probably Griswold v. Connecticut, which wove together a string of cases involving private schools (Pierce v. Society of Sisters), parents (Meyer v. Nebraska), Universities (Sweeney v. New Hampshire) and others to derive a general concept that the First Amendment has a penumbra protecting certain institutions historically instrumental to the transmission of ideas, and marriage is one of those institutions.
All this broke down only a few years later. Eisenstadt v. Baird ridiculed the idea that marriage was in any way special and called distinguishing married from unmarried persons irrational. Racial discrimination cases made mincemeat of the idea that private schools and universities had special autonomy to choose their instructors and students as they sought fit. The Supreme Court put anothet nail in the coffin when it rejected the idea that journalism as an institution was entitled to any special autonomy. By the end of the 1970s, the concept of institutional rights was pretty much a dead letter outside of the special case of religion.
But I think this was a mistake. I think a healthy democracy needs mediating institutions between the atomized individual and the absolute state, institutions that need aome measure of autonomy to perform their functions. And I think the extinction of the concept of institutional rights and the general diminishment of institutions with a sense of social responsibility over the last few decades is no coincidence.
In particular, I think that parental rights only make sense as a species of institutional rights, the right to have some autonomy in the conduct of a special social responsibility, and not as rights in the libertarian sense of the freedom to do as one pleases for ones own personal gratification.
An extraordinarily difficult subject. Too many variables to allow comments particularly by those who have not experienced the range of circumstances outside normal. Not raised, for example, children who are out of control including criminal behavior pre-teen, parent(s) who is/are unable to react; how does society and the law expect such parents to react? Should it depend on the parent's wishes? Why, if the parent cannot, say no parent can control the child? Mental health issues recognized or not, parent(s) and/or child, lack of intelligence or experience in raising a child. Who makes these decisions?
In most (all?) states, there is a procedure where a parent can give up custody of an out-of-control child -- give custody to the state.
There was a case a while back where the state didn't want to take custody (it's expensive) and the child wound up doing something heinous as a result. Anyone with LexisNexis can probably find it.
And the question is what is the state supposed to do with this out of control child? Electric shocks? -- Massachusetts does that and it's controversial, see https://www.wcvb.com/article/court-allows-massachusetts-school-to-continue-shock-treatment/45037932
I am pretty sure that nobody can find a specific case at an unspecified time ("a while back") and place (presumably in the U.S.) where a child did something bad.
I somehow managed to find a statute you claimed had never existed...
And there is the question of whether the government may ban certain forms of medical treatment for minors. For example, electroshock therapy is banned for children under 12 in California and under 16 in Texas. A number of states ban conversion therapy for minors. Other states ban certain forms of gender affirmation treatments.
Is this a violation of parental rights or merely a state exercising regulatory power over medical providers?
I don't think pure libertarianism has an adequate response, because its model of human behaviour assumes mature rationality.
Well, not mature rationality, as such, but at least some minimal level of competence. It doesn't deal well with people who aren't mentally competent to make their own decisions.
And children start out utterly incapable of that, and gradually acquire that competence.
Part of that is that libertarianism isn't a complete moral theory, it's a theory of the limits of what you're entitled to do coercively, and not much more.
Remember that minors can be emancipated (legally made into adults) by a court proceeding. They're usually at least 15-16 and it usually involves some reason why their parent(s) can't continue having custody, the minor has to convince a judge that the minor is mature enough to legally be an adult, but it happens. Get's really interesting in high school when you ask for a parent's note -- I always let the office figure it out.
I don't think pure libertarianism has an adequate response, because its model of human behaviour [sic] is pure fantasy.
That's hardly limited to libertarianism. Take a look at utilitarianism, and the "calculation problem". And let's not even get started on the absurdity of Rawls' original position.
All theories are models, and all models fail to include the gritty details. Supposedly quantum mechanics perfectly explains the behavior of matter, a pity it's computationally impossible to derive an exact solution for anything more complicated than a hydrogen atom.
Have you encountered the utility monster?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_monster
I have not discussed conservative arguments based on a strong presumption in favor of preserving our particular society's longstanding traditions.
You forgot to mention the (much stronger) liberal arguments that children play an important role in society separate from their own (or their patents') individual interests. This is where the requirement to educate your children comes from, for example. It could be the case for any number of reasons that a particular child in a particular family is not best served by forcing an education upon them. Maybe it's a family of means and the child's best option is just to prepare for and continue a life of aristocracy. Maybe it's a girl in a family that practices arranged marriages who would do better to learn skills for managing a household than math and science.
We've decided to foreclose those parental choices not because of the child's best interest but because that’s not the sort of society we want.
As a corollary, government is heavily involved in raising children in practice, in order to do the things that society wants done but parents are poorly equipped to do, secondary education being the prime example. Yes, these government efforts often align with a child's best interest, but the motivating factor is society's interests, not the child's.
(I think we frequently use language that asserts that all these things are in fact in the child's best interest, simply by presuming that the child's best interest is to go along with whatever society has in store for them. That presumption is never subject to challenge.)
Society wants all sorts of things that parents are poorly equipped to do. That’s why we have supermarkets and gas stations. Secondary education is substantially in the hands of government because the government provides it for “free” aka out of taxes. The same would apply to fast food if the government provided that free. Privately supplied fast food that you had to pay for yourself would become a luxury good, just like private secondary education.
The government provides secondary education because it chooses to not because secondary education is the sort of thing that cannot be provided without government.
But I agree with your conclusion that government secondary education is not provided because the government has the child’s best interests at heart.
"But I agree with your conclusion that government secondary education is not provided because the government has the child’s best interests at heart."
I take issue with that. SOME of us actually do -- not many, but some.
In much of the country prior to WWII, particularly rural areas, secondary education was private with maybe municipal tuition assistance.
Yoder v. Wisconsin suggests that if children who are members of a religious group are not given the kind of education the state thinks they should for religious reasons, parental religious rights prevail, as long as the religious group involved is generally law-abiding and economically self-supporting. Smith indicated Yoder is still good law.
So the things that you’re liable, to read in your hypothetical, they ain’t necessarily so.
Preconceptions, statistics beware, I know, offered only for general understanding and extrapolation and disbelief.
"More than 32 million youth were under juvenile court jurisdiction in 2020. Each age between age 10 and age 16 accounts for about 13% of these youth, thus nearly 91% were between the ages of 10 and 16." "The delinquency case rate declined from 51.3 per 1000 in 2005 to 15.7 in 2020." Juvenile Court Statistics 2020, National Center for Juvenile Justice [https://ojjdp.ojp.gov/jcs2020.pdf]
"Should the rule, for instance, be..."
My $0.02:
3 is overly vague. Who decides what the best interests of the child are? Using what standards?
I would support some combination of 1 & 2 with a caveat.
I think that "the legal system concludes that" is not a decision that should be left to a single judge acting alone on looser processes than the rest of our legal system. It should be a jury decision on the same standards of proof as a criminal trial.
I agree as noted below. Best interests is a recipe for judicial megalomania.
Imagine if your lunch choice was to be decided by some arbiters conclusion as to your best interests.
There are thousands of lunches that would do you no harm at all, and yet you get to eat what some bozo on the bench thinks is in your “best interests” ?
"It is in the best interests of the child that his immortal soul be not imperilled by receiving medical care", for example...
That's the Christian Scientists. JW will accept medical treatment but not transfusions, which they consider to be "eating blood" in violation of Leviticus and other Old Testament sections.
They were right in that they didn't have to worry about AIDS and other stuff from transfusions. But...
I recall a line by I think Tom Lehrer, of someone being as nervous as a Christian Scientist with appendicitis.
The JWs are of course idiots in this matter. Their view is at variance with the meaning of the Leviticus text as well as three millennia of Jewish jurisprudence.
The social workers determine what is best for the child, using their own standards. That's why I don't like them.
As to EV’s proposed rules:
1. The “physical harm” standard should not be a question for the majority. It should be more like clear and present danger - ie only a small minority would say the parents behaviour was not dangerous.
2. Psychological harm I’d be inclined to leave out completely because of the yuuuge potential for abuse. Maybe the rule in 1 above would be ok though
3. No no no, not the best interests of the child ! There is by definition one one best interests of the child so such a rule necessarily resolves to the arbiter’s subjective preference.
3. You are right. Favoring the best interests of the child is the same as saying that there are no parental rights.
Roger, there aren't any parental rights in most states...
Well, Libertarians like to fantasize about having rights.
I feel that this conversation would be better served if it wasn't in the abstract, but used case studies of government behavior that went too far or didn't go far enough.
Because it's easy to talk in the abstract. But when you make the leap from "I want to be able to raise my kid how I want" to "I want the school to spy on my kid for me because I'm too lazy to be involved in their life on my own", it's a lot harder to pretend you're adhering to principles and not just whining that your teenager doesn't trust you (and then proving why).
The problem is confidentiality -- you can't use real cases, even I can't in complaining.
What an odd lie.
I respectfully disagree. Bad cases make bad laws. Good laws are more likely to come from agreed-upon principles. If you can't articulate why your preferred social norm is desirable in the abstract, you have no foundation from which to evaluate variances from that baseline.
The social norm is that the state takes children away from parents who would kill them. Real simple, and everyone agrees on it in the abstract.
In practice is where it breaks down because you have to take possession of children BEFORE their parents kill them.
Counterpoint: if your abstract principles can't survive contact with real-world cases, then you need to refine then more before trying to turn them into laws.
Postulating, theorizing, and working in the abstract without ever looking at the real world --including so-called "bad cases"-- is how you crash and burn.
So talk about the cases --including the bad cases-- from the perspective of your abstract theories if you want, but talk about the cases.
I've been watching this for 40 years and it's cyclical.
First there is a highly visible and usually grotesque case of child abuse, such as a child burnt to death in an electric oven (cite below). The response to this is to hire a bunch of jack-booted Nazi thugs to run rampant over the rights of parents until there is enough cumulative noise (and often a public abuse, such as the Pellitier case) and the Nazis get put onto leashes. And then the whole thing repeats itself.
They use the dead kids -- who are outliers -- to justify the total rape of parental rights.
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/10/29/Parents-burn-child-to-death-in-oven/1533467874000/
And Maine DHS went from there to:
"5-year-old Logan Marr was found dead in the basement of her foster mother's home in Chelsea, Maine. The foster mother, Sally Schofield, a highly respected former caseworker for Maine's Department of Human Services (DHS), would later be tried and convicted of manslaughter after police determined that Logan had died from asphyxiation after being bound with duct tape and strapped into a high chair in the basement."
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/fostercare/marr/
It seems like the thorniest argument about parental rights occurs when there is a serious within-family dispute about what course of action to take. For example, when divorced or separated (or married!) parents have a serious disagreement about the provision of medical care. It is not possible for both parents to have parental rights when either of them exercising their right forecloses the other.
You might also imagine a situation where the parents are yahoos and the adult siblings of the minor, the uncle and aunt, the grandparents, and others who have some legal responsibility for the minor in the event of the parents incapacity, disagree strongly with the parents choices.
Clearly in either of theses cases, the court needs to adjudicate between competing claims of authority over the child, and it seems idiotic to ignore the substance of the claims in favor of math (can four grandparents and a father trump a custodial mother?).
If you already have a framework where a court can break ties or adjudicate competing claims, it seems to me silly to say that the court can't make the same ruling in cases where the child wants one thing and the parents another, and it seems silly to say that the court can't make the same ruling in cases where the child is incapacitated but presume to want one thing and the parents another, and it seems silly to say that the court can't make the same ruling in cases where the child's preference is unknown but where one course of action has some subset of consequences that are irreversible but not predictably negative.
I still think about that fucking banshee of a woman (Christine Maggiore) who was a professional HIV denialist and who gave birth to an HIV positive daughter and then her daughter died in infancy of AIDS because it turns out she was wrong. Since the world would be better _for literally everyone else in it_ had she been shot in the head the day after her daughter was born, and since Maggiore herself died a few years later of AIDS (because HIV causes AIDS, which is a fatal illness), I see absolutely no reason why a court shouldn't have stepped in.
There are many hard cases when it comes to defining liberty, but any set of principles that leads us to get ridiculously easy cases wrong aren't worth a damn.
It seems like the thorniest argument about parental rights occurs when there is a serious within-family dispute about what course of action to take.
Which reminds me of the other main reason why "the best interests of the child" is an absurd standard. In a family composed of Dad D, Mom M, and kids X,Y and Z, why would "society" wish the family to conduct its affairs "in the best interests of X" ? (Aside from the logical impossibility of conducting them in the best interests of Y, and in the best interests of Z, at the same time as conducting them in the best interests of X.)
What are D and M in the meanwhile ? Chopped liver ?
There is no conceivable "best interests" standard that can reconcile the interests of D,M, X, Y and Z. The appropriate balancing of interests between the various family members is inevitably a value judgement, typically (because evolution), though not always, made by the parents suppressing their own interests to some extent.
That is correct. And yet there are thousands of family court opinions and other court decisions and expert opinions that recite the phrase "the best interests of the child" as if that were some unquestionable principle to guide child cases.
And that is why K-12 is such a mess.
Child X may be a holy terror, but we have to go with what is in his best interest and not what is in everyone else's best interest.
But one of my personal favorites involved a non-custodial father who (when DNA testing arrived) found that he was *not* the father of the child that he was paying child support to, but was required to continue paying it anyway because doing so was "in the best interest of the child."
No David, I don't have a cite on this. Look it up yourself if you are that concerned about what was an AP article 20 years ago.
I looked it up hoping to find the case of a Texas man ordered to pay child support for six children when four were not his (I think that was the number). But after scrolling three pages I stopped at the two that kept getting repeated.
A Detroit man was ordered to pay $30k in back child support because he was listed as the father on a welfare request form by the mother. At the time he was a newly released prisoner with no job and no means to afford an attorney. Twenty years later the judge said his window to oppose the paternity had closed. He must pay.
https://fox2now.com/news/judge-orders-man-to-pay-30k-in-child-support-for-kid-who-is-not-his/
Same with a Texas man who didn't realize a deduction from his paycheck of $50 a decade before was child support for a child he didn't know about and DNA proved wasn't his. He was ordered to pay $65k with the same ruling. You should have contested it a decade ago.
https://abc13.com/child-support-texas-law-family-court/2283035/
For once, the Supreme Court is right:
"The child is not the mere creature of the State; those who nurture him and direct his destiny have the right, coupled with the high duty, to recognize and prepare him for additional obligations."
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/268/510/
Of course the government should punish child abuse and protect the children from parents who want to mutilate his or her genitals (and the parents should protect their children from perverts - whether private persons or government officials - who want to practice such mutilation). And as the Supreme Court said in the quoted case, the government can require basic educational standards.
Just as First Amendment rights are subject to reasonable restrictions, so is the constitutional parental right to direct the upbringing of their children. But of course the presumption against government control should be at least as great in the parental rights situation as in the First Amendment situation.
How far does that duty extend? What if a parent insists that to avoid subjecting their child to immoral literature, they will not allow the child to learn to read?
Under this reasoning would you repeal Cal. Civ. Code §§ 1714.1, 1714.3 (2024)? Or prevent its application if the parents have sought aid from the police, CPS, and other organizations that "claim" to have the power to assist them?
Having it both ways, doesn't seem fair. Eespecially where the State (such as California) limits the parent's tools to shouting (but not too loudly or too often).
BTW, in many states there is also CRIMINAL liability either directly by statute or through judicial twisting of other laws.
The fact that the State charges 10-year old children with "Terroristic Threats" for making finger-guns clearly demonstrartes why the State should not have easy authority to overcome parental rights. That authority should only be granted in very constrained situations, if at all.
#BindtheStrongman