Rational Egoist Interview on the Election and Voting for a Lesser Evil

Podcaster Michael Liebowitz interviewed me on why Kamala Harris is a lesser evil than Trump, and the more general issue of the logic of voting for a lesser evil.

Trump and Harris. (Li Rui / Xinhua News Agency/Newscom)

 

Michael Liebowitz recently interviewed me about the election on his Rational Egoist podcast. Despite the title, this isn't so much a case for Kamala as a case for why she's less bad than Trump. We also discuss the broader issue of the ethics of voting for a lesser evil vs. voting for a third party candidate with no chance of winning.

For more on some of the issues covered in the podcast, see my post "Kamala Harris is a Far Lesser Evil than Donald Trump," and the earlier "The Logic of Voting for a Lesser Evil—and Other Writings on the Morality of Voting." For a complete compendium with links to all  my writings related to the election, see here.

Comments

[CountmontyC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e13YjTPb_0&pp=ygUtdGhleSBhcmUgY29taW5nIHRvIHRha2UgbWUgYXdheSBoYWhhIG9yaWdpbmFs

[Rubbish!]

Does this Ilya character really think his opinion matters and will sway people to his view of the world?

For me, I think our system of letting the intelligent and well bred fans of the Philadelphia Eagles decide the presidency for the entire country is the highest and best form of democracy. Better them than Ilya the Condescending Aristocrat wannabe.

[Commenter_XY]

We don't call him Ilya The Lesser for nothing, you know.

[BillyG]

Somber Somin works at GMU in Fairfax County, VA. It's a dark blue county suffering from the worst of Democrat excesses. They just destroyed their magnet school (Thomas Jefferson) by changing admission from merit to race.

Somber Somin probably believes what he reads in the Washington Post and doesn't understand it's (poorly thought out) opinion from cover through the sports section.

[Jerry B.]

How about not voting for evil? How about “none of the above” as a choice?

[SRG2]

Sure. It's akin to saying that you regard both candidates as roughly equally bad, an opinion to which you're entitled.

[Krayt]

Not true. To vote for the lesser evil assumes an evil world, and your best bet is to pick a side.

Enjoy life on your knees, knave.

ETA: It occurs to me your argument is a variation on Pascal’s Wager. Pick some god and kneel to what its Earthly self-appointed palace dwellers tell you to do.

I shouldn’t say “knave”. That’s an unscrupulous person. My apology. “Serf” is more accurate.

[SRG2]

No. When only two outcomes are possible, you choose the one with the higher expected utility even if the EU of both is negative.

Nothing to do with Pascal's Wager or an evil world.

[Dr. Ed 2]

MAGA Power!!!!!!

[Brett Bellmore]

" To vote for the lesser evil assumes an evil world, and your best bet is to pick a side."

It assumes we're in a situation like WWII, and need to ally with Stalin to beat Hitler.

Of course, we disagree who's Stalin, and who's Hitler, in this scenario, but that's the essence of it. A good outcome is off the table, we're trying for second worst, instead.

In a 'need to ally with Stalin' situation, it's really important to remember that Stalin is still a bad guy, despite the temptation, having made that decision, to drift into thinking he's not so bad after all.

I have no trouble remembering that Trump isn't really a good guy; Do you have trouble remembering that Harris isn't actually a good person?

[apedad]

Have you seen ANYONE here cheerlead for Harris?

We recognize and are discouraged by her flawed decisions - especially as a prosecutor - and the way she was nominated (you shouldn't fuck your friends) was garbage.

So we can disagree on policies and politics.

What we're not going to agree with is voting for a blithering idiot - like you did.

[Brett Bellmore]

No, I have not seen cheerleading for Harris. I've seen her treated as non-awful, but I suppose that's not technically cheerleading, even though I think it's a mistake.

And, how many times am I going to have to point out that, if Trump were a moron, a blithering idiot, you would never have heard of him! He didn't secure the GOP nomination 3 times running by being a blithering idiot, he didn't beat Clinton by being a blithering idiot, he didn't come within 43K votes of winning in 2020 by being a blithering idiot.

The only people who genuinely think Trump is a blithering idiot are people who've drank so much of the Koolaid that they're sloshing.

Again, I implore you: Stop believing your own trash talk!

[VinniUSMC (Banana Republic Day 5/30/24)]

"Trump is a bad person and his policies are not good. Harris' policies are awful. Guess I have no choice but to vote for the person with the worse policies." -Leftitarians

[David Nieporent]

As the late great PJ O'Rourke said about Hillary Clinton in 2016, she's wrong about everything, but she's wrong within normal parameters. It applies equally to Harris. She's wrong but sane. Whereas Trump is both wrong and insane. And evil. Easy choice.

[VinniUSMC (Banana Republic Day 5/30/24)]

Perhaps you and Ilya can get together and have a good cry, maybe go see a therapist about your TDS, and then grow up. Or leave. Whiny, petulant children.

[Frank Drackman]

I just shat some really delectable strawberries, would you like some?

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

That is probably the best thing you’ve ever done with your life—congratulations!!

[Drewski]

What an original thought, and definitely not the plot of a popular comedy movie.

[Frank Drackman]

Lesser of Two E-villes is still E-ville, especially when Cums-a-lot got
Exactly Zero Votes in the 2024 Primary/Supports Prisoners having their Primary Sexual Organs Surgically Removed/Tolerates her Husbands Sexual Battery/as “Border Czar” fucked up the border so much she had to change her position and support re-starting “45/47’s” Border Wall/As California AG Imprisoned millions of (mostly Black/Brown) Young men for Bullshit Marriage-Juan-A Beefs (When she wasn’t fellating Willie Brown, and I know, “45/47” pretended to Fellate a Microphone, what Red-Blooded-Amurican Male Hasn’t pretended to Fellate a Microphone??
Oh yeah, she supports (Fuck-Up-edly, like everything she does) Peoples who want to put me in an Oven (I’m Cold blooded, over 70F and I’m turning on the AC)
Reminds me of 1980, the Erection that was supposed to be a “Toss up”, Jimmuh conceded before the polls had even closed in Western Florida, fucking over the DemoKKKrat’s running there, sort of sums up Jimmuh’s Fucked up Four Years,

I’m not a Pussy like Nate “Trump has a 52.73714% chance of winning” Silverstein,
I'm putting my Digital Co-hones on the chopping block,
“45” becomes “47” with 303 Electrical Votes, you read it here first
No, Cums-a-lot doesn’t win Iowa (that whole Bullshit Poll was based on 57 more in the sample voting for Cums-a-lot)

Frank

[Squire Al]

What a classless and Dreck Comment.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Kamala with the win with around 320 EC votes as the swing states and NC and AZ and GA and NV swing to her!! I think the PR comments and then Kamala getting the opportunity to denounce Biden’s “garbage” comments is what pushed her over the top!! So Trump gets a huge assist!!

[JesusHadBlondeHairBlueEyes]

Larry Schweikart had a great take how you election cheaters and stealers hosed yourselves.

The good guys have been catching you cheaters this time, you stupid globalist marxists should go down in flames.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Biden cheated and ended up president…and now Hunter is a billionaire with a little hottie wife!!! Cheaters win!!!

[JesusHadBlondeHairBlueEyes]

Well, as Gov. Jesse “The Body” Ventura used to say “If you ain’t cheatin’ you ain’t tryin'”.

P.S. Did Hunter marry his niece that he was bangin? Is that the hottie you were referring to? Did she finally turn 18?

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

I will say the Palins and Bidens are like those state fair miniature horse races where they are trying to beat each other for the prize of biggest white garbage family…and then out of nowhere Vance and his violent drug addicted skank of a mother win the race!!! lol.

[Roger S]

Summary: Somin disagrees with Harris's policies, but hates Trump's personality, so he is voting against Trump.

[SRG2]

Nope

[Brett Bellmore]

Agreed, nope. Somin disagrees with Harris' policies.

He super-ultra-hyper disagrees with Trump's immigration policies. And those are the only policies that matter.

[Social Justice is neither]

Somin is willing to sacrifice your economic liberty and your freedom of speech for open borders. He is an evil man that should rarely be listened to.

[Don Nico]

A plague on both your houses.
Tomorrow the earth will still be turning and will still be on its way around the sun in its usual direction,

[Commenter_XY]

Very true.

What I have reminded myself (and my acquaintances): We are all Americans.

In the aftermath, a hefty dose of tolerance is needed, remembering that we are still Americans.

[Doug Heffernan]

Watched the entire video. I think Somin makes his case reasonably well. He makes serious arguments and never is at a loss with being able to provide supporting data. He even points out which of his arguments may be weaker.

Unfortunately, serious arguments and supporting data don't hold much sway nowadays with many voters. Somin knows this, of course.

[Carl_N_Brown]

Why vote the lesser of two evils when you can vote Pure Evil? Write in CTHULHU!

[Frank Drackman]

You Fool, Warren is dead!

[Brett Bellmore]

LOL! One of my favorite Lovecraft short stories!

[Bored Lawyer]

+100 for originality.

[Noscitur a sociis]

It’s about as original as “vote early and vote often”.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu_for_President

[Hugo S. Cunningham]

My favorite red-white-and-blue Cthulhu logo is the one that looks like the GOP elephant logo, but facing you directly, with six legs but no visible trunk.
(2) You can probably find the one I am talking about with a Google search against "cthulhu for president logo 2020 images".

[F.D. Wolf]

Donald Trump is officially endorsed by the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire for President.

This was not a light decision. But we feel it is the right one for ourselves, for our children, and for the best future of a Free State of New Hampshire.

Donald Trump is not a libertarian. Nonetheless, Trump is the best candidate for libertarians. He has:

1. Promised to free Ross Ulbricht.
2. Started no new wars, a first in over three decades.
3. Pledged to end the importation of anti-liberty migrants.
4. Indicated he will appoint Elon Musk, Ron Paul, and Vivek Ramaswamy to shrink the federal government.
5. Received endorsements from the greatest libertarians in America, including Thomas Massie.
6. Committed to ending the Department of Education.
7. Endorsed Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.
8. Flirted with ending the income tax entirely.

The list of Trump promises could continue. We don’t take them as a given. Trump promises much and we are skeptical of promises from politicians. However, we know for certain what the Democrat alternative is: more socialism, more censorship, more taxes, more authoritarianism.

There is, technically, a Libertarian on the ballot. This Libertarian spends his time supporting tax-funded trans surgery for prisoners, advocating for literal murderers, and trying to kick our members out of the Libertarian Party entirely. We cannot support him, and he cannot win.

Endorsing Donald Trump is in the best interests of our ultimate goal: creating a Free New Hampshire. As Free Staters, another term for libertarians who live in New Hampshire, our mission is to create a state so radically free that both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris look like communists.

We’re only part of the way there. The barbarians are at the gates. We must make sure that New Hampshire continues to repel progressives, socialists, communists, and leftists of all stripes. New Hampshire being the only red state in a blue New England helps achieve that goal.

For these reasons and more, the most popular Libertarian state affiliate in the country is endorsing Donald Trump for President.

Now get out there and vote!

https://x.com/LPNH/status/1853616374267965550

[Commenter_XY]

Pressident Trump actually went in-person to the LP convention, and laid out his case to the LP. That hasn't happened before. President Trump showed up and asked for their votes.

Looks like it paid off in NH.

Going forward, I hope to see major party candidates making their case in-person to third-parties, like LP. That was a healthy development, to see that happen. Reagan never did that.

[CindyF]

Marc Elias, attorney for the Democrat party has announced the he will make sure that any attorney that represents Trump is disbarred.

Law Professors: "That's our guy! The party of "lesser evil" Go Harris"!

[Roger S]

A vote for Trump is a vote to end the lawfare.

[David Nieporent]

Marc Elias, attorney for the Democrat party has announced the he will make sure that any attorney that represents Trump is disbarred.

He did not do any such thing, and also he can't do that even if he wanted to.

[Brett Bellmore]

OK, listening to the interview.

1. I'd had no idea that Somin sounds like Mandark. Wow, did not see that coming.

2. Unshockingly, the reason Somin is unimpressed with Trump's judicial nominations is that they uphold immigration laws... Again, I observe that Somin's take on this election is over-determined by his open borders obsession. That Harris would refuse to enforce immigration laws totally dictated his support for her, nothing else mattered.

3. A little further on; Trump wasn't really deregulatory, because immigration enforcement counts as "regulation". He's scarcely even pretending this isn't completely about immigration!

4. He wouldn't be good against crime because... he'd waste resources enforcing immigration laws!

5. Wow, deporting illegal immigrants after crime is the moral equivalent of Jim Crow.

6. Kamala is not as bad, because even the bad things she'd do wouldn't be directed specifically against illegal immigrants.

7. It makes rational sense to vote lesser evil, once you consider the expected utility of illegal aliens.

I wouldn't say he raises no points at all unrelated to his open borders obsession, but it is absolutely clear that obsession drove his choice.

[VinniUSMC (Banana Republic Day 5/30/24)]

Ilya Somin writes to link to his own writings. At least he admits it. Even though it is clear as day, seeing that 99% of his links are to his own previous posts (which link to his previous posts), and almost never to any sort of evidence or data.

[Roger S]

Does Somin ever explain why he wants to destroy America? Or the Russian Jewish Marxist origin of his beliefs?

[Brett Bellmore]

He doesn't actually want to destroy America, he refuses to accept that the policies he supports would have that outcome.

Basically, he's a guy who got pulled out of the water into a lifeboat, and he LOVES the lifeboat. He wants to share it with everybody still in the water, so much that he simply can't accept that he'd sink it.

[David Nieporent]

Did you ever explain why you're a raging antisemitic asshole like your mother?

[JonFrum]

For Somin, everything boils down to open borders. Harris for, Trump against. It's that simple - no other issues are relevant. No surprise - this site was originally financed by open borders big money.

[Brett Bellmore]

OK, Somin: If we have a 2026 election, I'm gonna want to hear an apology.

[thesafesurfer]

Professor Somin's political judgement is questionable to say the least.