The Volokh Conspiracy
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When Prosecutors "Take a Dive" — The Purported "Error" in the Glossip Case
My op-ed in The Hill discusses the problem of prosecutors confessing "error" where none exists.
Previously I blogged about the Glossip case before the Supreme Court, in posts found here, here, and here. This death penalty case involves a prosecutor confessing a purported "error" where, in fact, no error exists.
This past weekend, I published an op-ed in The Hill that reviews the problem of prosecutors "taking a dive" by confessing nonexistent errors. Here's the introduction:
Earlier this month, Amherst College Professor Austin Sarat criticized Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito for asking pointed questions about death row inmate Richard Glossip's claim that his 2004 murder conviction should be overturned. After all, Oklahoma's new attorney general, Gentner Drummond, supports Glossip's contention that the trial prosecutors withheld evidence.
This popular narrative, however, is a manufactured and bogus claim. The prosecutors never withheld evidence. The case's true lesson is about the emerging dangers of prosecutors confessing phantom "errors," and sometimes even throwing cases on purpose.
You can read the whole op-ed here. Kent Scheidegger has some interesting discussion of the issues over at the Crime and Consequences blog.
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Pretty bad when you can't even execute a child murderer in Oklahoma.
A reminder of why we have standing rules, not that it would matter in this case. Changing administrations with changing agendas lead to such things. For example, look at how generous the Garland DOJ was to Peter Strzok and Lisa Page.
JohnSteed 19 mins ago
For example, look at how generous the Garland DOJ was to Peter Strzok and Lisa Page.
Prime example of an attempt by the FBI personnel to influence an election then the subsequent attempted behind the scenes coup to overturn an election ( or whatever terminology you may wish to describe). Yet the partisan DOJ, rewards the pair instead of prosecuting them.
This case illustrates precisely nothing about standing. The parties are the State of Oklahoma, which had standing a to prosecute a violation of its criminal statutes, and Glossip, who had standing to challenge his conviction and sentence.
The Strzok, case, of course, has nothing to do with standing either: Strzok of course had standing to challenge the adverse employment practices he was subjected to.
Strzok was involved in near criminal activity and should have been terminated immediately. Certainly should have been terminated for his activities pre and post election. sole issue was that certain procedures were not followed properly in his termination.
He was not subject to adverse employment practices.
I have no idea what "near criminal activity" is supposed to mean, but it has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion in any event.
He was fired. That's the literal definition of an adverse employment practice.
Standing helps to prevent collusive litigation in which one side “takes a dive” in the hope of shaping case law for a desired outcome. So a case in which one party does take a dive reminds us of why standing rules are a good idea. The Strzok/Page case is an example of how a change in administration can lead to a new regime taking a dive to help its political friends.
Premiering this Fall:
Prosecutors Behaving Badly.
Isn't this what lawyers and politicians do for a living, conjure up reasonable sounding surface stories to cover the real reasons they sling power?
It'd be odd if they didn't do this!
Given a choice - and it's a real-world choice - between prosecutors admitting error where there isn't any, and denying error where there is, I prefer the former. YMMV.
Is this really a judgment issue though? Seems more like a binary choice rather than picking somewhere on a spectrum
Theoretically one might have to make that decision in some case somewhere. Is it a relevant dichotomy in this case?
IIRC, one of the central points of this case is that the current DA is saying the previous DA fucked up, and the guy should get another day in court because of it. The other side (don't remember if Cassell is actually a litigant here, or just passionate) is arguing that he shouldn't be allowed to do that, and that a later prosecutor has no legal standing to do this.
To be fair, I might be mixing up some of the moral arguments with the legal arguments.
How is this a real-world choice? Is opposition to one inimical to opposition to the other? Can't one properly criticize both?
It's a real-world binary choice because there are no co-AGs or co-DAs. Suppose you had two candidates, one an Andrew Bailey type, the other, a Glossip-AG type...
That's fair. Hopefully this will never be a binary choice.
The claim is he was convicted based on the shaken baby syndrome (a discredited theory - based on junk science). However the forensics show that the baby died from multiple traumas, not from any shaken baby syndrome.
If true then there has to be a re-trial.
Did he cause the traumas?
Yes. His claim was they were caused by a fall from bed.
Unless the bed was on top of a mountain, he was lying and hence very, very guilty.
If the facts are utterly different than that submitted to the finder of fact, that seems a due process issue.
There is no 'very, very guilty' exception to due process. Not hard to see why.
I believe the trauma evidence was presented at trial too.
He's got tons of process.
"There is no ‘very, very guilty’ exception to due process."
There is, in fact, such an exception, when "overwhelming evidence" renders error harmless.
I don't believe that procedure allows a court to review new facts to supplement the record.
Not what I responded to. If you can't associate the quotation I provided with the same text you wrote, that's probably a neurological issue.
So you're arguing that harmless error is an exception to due process?
Might want to rethink that position.
No, that's right. Almost any violation — unless it's deemed a "structural" one — can be excused as harmless error, and frequently it is. (Structural errors are things like denial of the right to counsel, or a problem with the jury, or the like.)
Sure, but that’s still within due process.
Why would I rethink it? I don’t make the law. The people you want to rethink it are not commenting at this blog, unless it turns out that Riva is actually Alito.
Though that wouldn't prevent Thomas from laying out in excruciating detail how the crime occurred, while dissenting on spurious and largely incoherent grounds.
no need for re - trial because he was convicted based on other evidence, not convicted on the alleged shaken baby syndrome.
The recent shaken baby case (but not really — we discussed this in an open thread a week or two ago and the prosecutors also had an alternative theory of guilt) was Robert Roberson. Glossip had someone murdered.
sorry - - got the cases mixed up
Wrong case.
New DA was running for Congress in a contested Democrat primary against a kooky leftist.
Coddling criminals is a huge advantage in such a primary.
Strike the above, that was a recent Missouri case [Marcellus Williams] with similar dynamics.
It's one of many examples where the crooks only have to win once but the people have to win every time. One pro-crime prosecutor can go back and sabotage a bunch of convictions by admitting made up "error." During their tenure, they can also go soft on crime and offer insane deals (as one prominent recent example, Jordan Neely getting to go to a "diversion program" for trying to kill an old lady, then bailing on it, then not suffering any consequences from the state).
But this doesn't work in reverse, if a pro-people prosecutor then wins, he's stuck with whatever the pro-crime predecessor did. He's stuck with what the pro-crime prosecutor did and can't come crying about "error" in favor of a criminal. The people have to win every time, the crooks only have to win once to undo decades of work. Always vote in the local elections and vote accordingly.
the crooks only have to win once but the people have to win every time.
So this is kind of the opposite view from "it is better that 10 guilty persons escape, than that 1 innocent suffer"
No it's not, the pro crime prosecutors have added on another layer.
We already have 10 guilty escape rather than 1 innocent suffer, but then also the actually guilty just have to bide their time until a pro-crime prosecutor rolls into office, then they get out too. It's just classic public choice theory-- there's not that much pro-crime sentiment, but the pro-crime voters care a lot more about crime than the average voter. Much like how we mostly still make pennies because zinc miners care a lot about propping up demand for zinc.
Just out of curiousity, do you actually believe that there are "pro-crime" prosecutors and voters? You know, people who are all like, "We need more rapes and murders. Can we subsidize that?"
Or is it possible that people can reasonably disagree about solutions to issues?
If you believe the first thing, then I am truly worried about you.
If you believe the second thing, then how can you possibly have a reasonable discussion about criminal justice issues when you label people who disagree with you as "pro-crime?"
He doesn't believe things, just trolls people. Pretty sure he's one of the Bumble alternate accounts.
Classic deflection. Is it really so hard to believe some people are opposed to crime?
I think there's a couple of things going on here. First, it's a variant of Curley economics; if you make the city worse to encourage people who would vote for you to move out, then you've shaped the electorate to your advantage because those people don't get to vote for/against you any more. Second, criminals who haven't been caught get to vote and naturally their number one issue is to vote for soft on crime politicians; after all, that's directly relevant to them should they ever get caught. Politicians may respond to this pressure without even fully realizing why it's happening. And thirdly, yeah, politics encourages a lot of gloryhounds and selfish people; they may be perfectly happy for you to be mugged if it's merely a step to their power.
... if that's what you believe, then you really need to think about your life.
You're in a bad rabbit hole if you're at the point of asserting that other people are trying to get the criminal vote. I can't even.
Literally everything you just said is so against any kind of lived experience in this country it's bizarre. It's nearly impossible to do any kind of criminal justice reform because whenever it's tried (by either party) it's just way too easy for someone else to win on a "soft on crime" platform.
I'm pretty sure that TextFirst is the same loon who claims that our prisons are too comfy.
Why are we talking about "shaken baby syndrome?"
The victim, Barry van Treese, was an adult - the owner of the motel where Glossip worked.
Shaken baby syndrome factors in another case arising in Texas.
It fits into the overarching category being discussed.
Though yes, the comment seems to confuse the cases, which to be fair, people do.
Because the regulars, in their blood lust, have confused this case with another one (the Texas one).
Why bother reading the OP or the links when you already know what is true?
[delete]
Yeah, I don't believe the "trend." A (VERY) few cases in a sea of overzealous prosecutors who will not admit mistakes is not a trend.
I deleted the comment since I see that the person cited on the thread made a mistake (so it was not just a comment about a related "mistake") but I agree that "trend" is unlikely.
yes - my bad - got the cases mixed up
Meh. As I've repeatedly stated, I think the death penalty is stupid and wrong, but also perfectly constitutional. Right now we have the worst of all worlds; the death penalty is expensive, time-consuming, and not really a deterrent- yet it consumes so many resources. If we are going to have it, then have it. Recognize there will be errors, streamline the process, and deal with the fallout. If not, then don't (through the political process), and stop arguing about it.
As for the OP? If you've ever dealt with the criminal justice system, you know that prosecutors confessing error isn't a problem in America. In fact, quite the opposite. Heck, courts have basically overturned convictions by saying, "This is just wrong," and the prosecutor will leverage the time and pain of another trial (after YEARS in prison) to get someone who was wrongfully convicted to plea out to time served.
Just a weird take.
Yes, when you have Paul Clement out there in front of the Supreme Court supporting the prosecutor, it just is not a typical case.
There is a smaller subset of death penalty cases where there is a sizable number of people, including people who otherwise would not have an issue with the death penalty, are concerned.
We are very concerned about taking life and liberty in this country. So, we might arguably overcompensate at times.
But, overall, prosecutors throwing a case, so to speak, is not exactly a big concern in my book.
. . . where there is a sizeable number of people are concerned? Having trouble parsing that.
In the Glossip and shaken baby cases, for instance, there are a sizable number of people from both political parties concerned about the application of the death penalty. Many of the people concerned are not generally opposed to the death penalty. But, they think the specific cases are problematic.
Many of the people concerned are not generally opposed to the death penalty. But, they think the specific cases are problematic.
That doesn't seem to be a totally coherent position.
"The death penalty is fine, but if someone happens to point out a somewhat dubious case I will certainly look into it, and possibly argue for a remedy, including possible exoneration."
The implication is that the speaker is fine with the occasional wrongful execution, or with the accused being wrongfully imprisoned, often for many years, until the matter is resolved.
According to the Death Penalty Information Center, Since 1973, at least 200 people who had been wrongly convicted and sentenced to death in the U.S. have been exonerated.
That's four a year. Let's say it's 80% of those wrongly convicted. That leaves one unjustified killing a year. Suppose there were no wrongful convictions at all, but as the price of this accuracy, the gods commanded us to select, completely at random, one individual a year to be executed. Would that be acceptable?
If not, what ratio would be?
I am against the death penalty.
However, people are going to accept a certain possibility of risk. For instance, we imprison people & there are various wrongful convictions. The system is flawed in many ways.
This is particularly a problem when prosecuting certain drug crimes. The risks are not worth it. OTOH, imprisonment for rape or murder will involve a different cost/benefit analysis.
(the exoneration rate shows the importance of procedural safeguards)
So, yes, it ultimately is a matter of what is acceptable. Still, I don’t think it is that they are “fine” with it. Many people are uneasy about certain things that they are willing to allow.
The issue is, it's not really the prosecutors who originally did the case confessing error. It's the newly appointed/elected officials suddenly "finding" an error in a case decided years or decades ago.
To use an analogy, take National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius. Imagine a Trump AG suddenly "discovers" an error in the arguments made by the federal lawyers at the time, and demands the case be re-opened and reargued because of the "errors" found. The original lawyers don't agree, they say there is no error, and that the new officials are grossly misinterpreting what is found. But the Trump AG and USAs say "nope, there was an error...needs to be reopened and argued again".
You weave a hypothetical, because actual examples are thin on the ground.
Except that what we're actually talking about IS an example. Not quite so thin.
It’s the newly appointed/elected officials suddenly “finding” an error in a case decided years or decades ago.
Or maybe finding an error, rather than "finding" one.
Criminal cases are unique in that the nexus is always the same: if the new relevant prosecutor thinks that the previous one got a case wrong, they have to bring that case itself back into court.
In other matters regarding what is and isn't the law, they don't need to do that, they can just find a new plaintiff to question the law again. This is what we saw wi anti-abortion litigation, anti-affirmative action litigation, and anti-non-discrimination law litigation: the lawyers just kept bringing in new plaintiffs to question the law from a slightly different angle until finally they found an angle that would stick.
Which is to say... what you describe absolutely does happen, but because the nature of the law being questioned is different, they go about it through different means.
When could this kind of prosecutorial action become a Rule 11 violation?
"When could this kind of prosecutorial action become a Rule 11 violation?"
Do you mean Rule 11 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure?
Federal Habeas Corpus and § 2255 proceedings are governed by different procedural rules. https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/rules_governing_section_2254_and_2255_cases_in_the_u.s._district_courts_-_dec_1_2019.pdf The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, to the extent that they are not inconsistent with any statutory provisions or these rules, may be applied to a proceeding under these rules.