The Volokh Conspiracy
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New in the American Spectator: The 11th Circuit Should Reject Jack Smith's Past Political Justifications to Expedite His Latest Appeal
"The Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit has no reason to accommodate politically motivated efforts to convict Trump before the election or inauguration."
Seth Barrett Tillman and I published a new essay in the American Spectator concerning Special Counsel Jack Smith's pending appeal to the Eleventh Circuit. We write that Smith's only justification to expedite the appeal is to obtain a conviction before the election, or even before the inauguration. The courts are under no obligation to accommodate Smith's politically motivated efforts.
Here is the introduction:
Special Counsel Jack Smith is on a mission to convict Donald Trump before the election, and if needed, before the inauguration. At every level of the judiciary, Smith has urged federal judges to move at breakneck speed so he can get his man. Now that Judge Aileen Cannon has determined that Smith was unlawfully appointed, Smith is once again racing for another appeal. But there is no good reason for the courts to move more quickly than they usually would. Indeed, moving any faster or slower than normal would suggest that the judges are favoring one side or the other.
Despite all the faux outrage over Judge Cannon's decision, she disqualified only one person from pursuing this case: Jack Smith. Cannon did not grant Trump any immunity for his actions during or after he left office. The United States attorney for the southern district of Florida is fully capable of prosecuting Trump. To be sure, Attorney General Merrick Garland does not want his Justice Department to take the heat for prosecuting his boss's political rival, but that is a political problem for Garland and the administration and not a legal problem for the judiciary. The Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit has no reason to accommodate politically motivated efforts to convict Trump before the election or inauguration. Trump should be treated like any other defendant.
And from the conclusion:
Smith seems to have determined that it is in the best interest of our democracy for voters to know whether Trump is convicted of a federal felony before voting. This is an extremely difficult political judgment that turns on disputed conceptions of what the public ought to know for the sake of democracy. Moreover, seeking to time a trial and conviction in this manner would mark a public and complete break with DOJ principles and policies of prosecutorial neutrality. It is imperative that the case against Trump be tried in the ordinary course of law, in the ordinary way, under an ordinary schedule. This case cannot be tried using newly invented legal rules, by a faux prosecutor, under an expedited schedule serving nakedly political (if not partisan) ends. Then-Attorney General Robert H. Jackson wisely observed that "the most dangerous power of the prosecutor" is "that he will pick people that he thinks he should get, rather than cases that need to be prosecuted." Only by adhering to this course of conduct does the judiciary uphold the rule of law.
I will report back when Smith files a motion to expedite the appeal to the Eleventh Circuit, or whether he seeks certiorari before judgment.
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“The Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit has no reason to accommodate politically motivated efforts to convict Trump before the election or inauguration.”
Then they also have no reason to accommodate politically motivated efforts to delay the trial to avoid having one before the election.
It is imperative that the case against Trump be tried in the ordinary course of law, in the ordinary way, under an ordinary schedule.
Has Judge Cannon run this trial in the ordinary way, on an ordinary schedule? There have been a lot of criticisms of her arguing that she hasn't.
Then they also have no reason to accommodate politically motivated efforts to delay the trial to avoid having one before the election.
In other words, they stick with the ordinary timetable.
Did I mention the DC Circuit shortened the deadline to file for an en banc petition in United States v. Trump?
Provide some examples of how Judge Cannon has not "run this trial in the ordinary way"? Has Judge Chutkan, the judge who had suggested, on the record in prior rulings, that President Trump should be charged for Jan6 and who had expressed disappointment that he had not yet been charged, run her trial in the ordinary way?
People have provided that to you multiple times in other threads.
At this point, it's just you asking other people to waste their time.
You kind of missed the whole point of having a comments section. If you have nothing substantive to add, you should probably not have responded. Do me a favor, mute me out and don't respond to my comments again.
It’s like rain on your wedding day.
Is this what you see on your acid trip? If you ever sober up, try to post something intelligible.
The good advice that you just didn't take.
You seriously need to cut back, it's still early in the day. And you might want to listen to something better too. The 90s tried to murder music.
+100
It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife
I hear there are some virtual girls out there. They might be impressed by your Alanis Morissette impressions but I bet even they'll laugh at you behind your back.
I thought you might get it with a more Google-able reference. Good bot!
If I were you, don't admit in public that you like girl music. Not a good look. And play with your dolls in private. No one need know about the Barbie.
But, just curious, any other girl songs you guys like? Do you exchange make-up advice? Get your nails done at the same salon?
You realize that you have a mute button too, right?
If you two yum-yums have anything remotely intelligent to add, feel free. This, this is not that thing.
The whole point of a comments section is for a bot programmed to sealion to spam the section with the same ignorant comments over and over in every thread? Interesting.
I wondered when little David-bot would be brave enough to show itself. It needs some time off for some new jokes. Maybe it should attend a Kamala rally? big time fun I hear.
Then they also have no reason to accommodate politically motivated efforts to delay the trial to avoid having one before the election.
Yes, but that is of 0 concern unless your goal is not disinterested concern for rule of law, but rather to git a political opponent.
Even the worrywarting he is trying to deliberately delay until after the election is of 0 concern, because those concerned of law violation will get their justice eventually. We’ll skip that that is a perfectly ethical thing to do given you’re deliberately going after him as a political opponent.
No, a small delay is inconsequential unless you are politically motivated in actuality.
There’s even a professor who recognized the asininity in your position, and, trying to help, wrote a paper about how The People need to see timely prosecution.
In this way he sought to sever the issue of “concern” from the obvious partisan issues, and place it firmly as its own thing, so facetious ones could facete major concerns for it, yo!
Even the worrywarting he is trying to deliberately delay until after the election is of 0 concern, because those concerned of law violation will get their justice eventually.
Uh, no. If Trump's reasons to want delays are to push any potential trial until after the election, then that is because he hopes that he'll win and be able to kill the whole thing. (While he wouldn't be sworn in until Jan. 20, 2025, being President-elect, I would not expect a trial date to be set by a judge before inauguration either.)
The neutral application of law and justice would be to treat Trump like any other defendant.* There are several instances of Cannon's rulings that were well outside of the norm, especially when you go back to the whole "special master" thing during the investigatory phase that also had her assigned to it. Letting uninvolved third parties make oral arguments regarding their amicus brief is something I think is almost unheard of, and the generally slow pace has been commented on many times.
We’ll skip that that is a perfectly ethical thing to do given you’re deliberately going after him as a political opponent.
I am not going after him, so I assume you meant that I want him gone after because I oppose him politically. If true, that is not mutually exclusive with concern over the rule of law. Our biases can line up with what is objectively true or ethical. If you want to be skeptical of my arguments because I oppose Trump, that is your prerogative.
Claiming that Jack Smith is "going after" Trump for political reasons takes more than the fact that he was appointed while Biden was President. You might start to successfully argue that by showing where people that have done the same kind of thing Trump is accused of were not prosecuted. But, as I explain below, good luck proving that.
*(If you've never seen it, there are many lists out there of government employees or former employees going to jail for having classified documents in their homes or other personal spaces where they were not supposed to be. In some cases, they were convicted or plead guilty even though they had access to those documents at the time they were discovered to be there. In none of those cases were those individuals ever accused of dithering over whether to let anyone look for the documents, let alone obstructing officials from recovering them. I don't see how to argue that Trump has gotten anything but kid glove treatment on this case.)
A ruling is not outside the norm simply because you disagree with it. Incidentally, this whole matter is outside the norm given that the disposition of presidential documents has always been dealt with as an administrative matter under the Presidential Records Act. Also somewhat unusual is a situation where the sitting president has in fact stolen classified info (conduct outside the PRA) and is excused by one special counsel while the former president is rabidly pursued by another special counsel, who likes staging photographs and pretending they're evidence.
Centuries of jurisprudence in the USA favors allowing those accused by the state the right to reasonably delay trials in order to protect the accused's rights. On the other hand there is a constitutional prohibition of the state delaying without just cause.
Published in The American Spectator? Very impressive. As I recall, you and the other insurrectionists were howling for a special prosecutor because you said you could not trust a Biden DOJ to be impartial. Now you want it the other way. What gives?
Which insurrectionists are they?
Ol' Blackman here is a Heritage man. And they soundly advocated for the nullification of millions of people's votes in 7 states. You remember anything about that, Michael? It was kinda a thing
If you're referring to fraud, I would say as a general principle that that effectively nullifies legal votes. But I'm really not clear as to exactly what you're referring to.
Riva was only powered up about 4 years ago. We should be gentle with his confusion.
It's an interesting program glitch that must have produced the Sarcastro-bot. I won't insult the programmers by insinuating that its creation was intentional
There's that IKYABWAI? that MAGA are so famous for!
It's cute when little David-bots try to be funny. Not so funny when the bots grow up. Not sure where they go then. CrowdStrike? The DNC? Perkins Coie?
Well, I mean, you have the actors that actually perpetrated the fraud: electors, attorneys, members of congress. But then you have the fan boys like Blackman and most of the huckleberries in this group that were quite happy with it. So, yeah, insurrectionists one and all
Was this meant to clarify what you were referring to? because it really doesn't. And kind of odd you seen to disagree that voter fraud nullifies legal votes, but you're welcome to your views.
Speaking of insurrections: https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2024/07/24/demonstrators-protest-benjamin-netanyahu-visit/?p1=hp_featurestack
"As of 8 p.m. Tuesday night, the Capitol Police said they did not have a final tally of the number of people arrested. But JVP claimed in a statement that 400 people, “including over a dozen rabbis,” had been arrested."
All of whom, I trust, will be persecuted to the extent the Jan 6th folk were. Actually, now that the concept of a Rule of Law has been abandoned, a Trump DoJ could seize "over a dozen" synagogues and give them to more Israel-friendly congregations.
Did these people try to overthrow the government, the way the Jan 6 people did?
Yes. They equally interfered with the functioning of the US Congress.
Reading is fundamental. At least Mr. Bumble answered my question, albeit delusionally. I didn't ask what they "interfered with"; I asked whether they tried to overthrow the government.
NO ONE tried to overthrow the government on Jan. 6.
They just tried to steal an election.
Or, to prevent its theft.
... said the delusional man.
I cant believe the DOJ is letting a known insurrectionist like Josh walk around freely.
Surely being an insurrectionist is criminal, right?
Well, owing to how sensitive the right is to being criminally prosecuted for anything, Garland probably left it on the back burner. But President Harris - the nasty woman - may have other plans. Anyway, the states are currently taking care of the rabble
We saw how Prosector Harris withheld evidence in order to incarcerate black men, so you might be on to something.
However, most 1776 Patriots are White, and like most well-known Liberal women of color, love them some White men.
Hobie- now you are catching on. Smith gets the boot; the US Atty for Southern District of Florida steps in. Then Trump moves to dismiss because that attorney was appointed by Biden and its an unparalleled conflict of interest the likes of which has never been seen before.
Rather predictable turn of events.
I think the US Attorney will look at the record and Smith's mishandling of the evidence and distortions of law and literally beg not to be assigned to this matter.
The USA is not assigned to prosecute a specific man.
No shit. The whole reason a special prosecutor was appointed after Trump announced he was running in 2024 was to avoid the appearance of conflict. Biden's DOJ prosecuting his political opponent. If Smith is kicked off the case AND the case is picked up by the US Atty for the Southern District of Florida - - - would it not still be 'Biden's DOJ' prosecuting his political rival? Who picked the US Atty for the Southern District of FL? What branch of government does the US ATTY work for? Who pays his salary?
Some me the man and I’ll show you the crime should not actually be a guiding principle in our criminal justice system. And if Congress wants an independent counsel to pursue these matters, then all it need do is enact a law giving the AG such appointment authority.
And remember that Beria died of acute lead poisoning -- he was executed.
Insurrection is in the eye of the beholder apparently. The Hamas supporting refuse that occupied the Cannon Rotunda might might appear to the unenlightened as somewhat insurrectiony. Even worse is running the country behind the scenes using an incompetent, mentally unfit puppet president.
When the delusion attempt to argue everything is subjective, it's a kind of surrender.
Well there goes the entirety of the modern left since they're built on a foundation of there not being any objective truth making everything subjective. Congrats, you played yourself.
No, actually, postmodernism is not the foundation of the modern left.
That would be Marx.
It's been established you don't know or care what a communist is, so props for even knowing the name Marx!
I don't actually speak Sarcastr0. Does that mean you disagree?
You don't care what stuff means, so Marx is just an insult to you.
Nope still not clear. But it seems by your evaisions you would agree with me, but just don't want to admit it. Is this true?
You got me. Great reading, I love Marxism and so do all my fellow liberals like David Nieporent.
Why is it so difficult then to answer the question? Why the childish evasion?
Because you don't actually care about my answer, or facts generally. So the main way to deal with you is fucking around.
You may have noticed just about everyone else has also reached this conclusion.
You woke up hoping to JAQ off. Not working great, looks like.
I'm totally down with Marx too! What a coincidence. Sure we've been telling the rubes for years that we are not in fact communists, but they kept insisting. And guess what? They were right along! I love communism! Eta pravda da tovarischi?
Sure, you’re obnoxious Sarcastr0, but it would be quite simple to answer the question unless you just are afraid to admit that you agree with me. Which is apparently the case. Obnoxious and cowardly, the modern left in a nutshell. I think I'll just ignore the other one, best way to handle child having a tantrum.
Sarcastr0, I think we've strung Riva along enough. Time to victimize someone else
Like I said cowardly. And dishonest. Sarcastr0, better listen to your boyfriend hobie. I don’t want to upset the relationship.
Why isn't Marx an insult to you too?
Protests and riots are mere distractions and red herrings from people like yourself. The fraud was the insurrection. But you already knew that
Yes, let's count the votes of the metabolically different.
The media's level of cheerleading for Harris is a little shocking, even for me.
Wait until tonight's speech by Bite Me.
I hope he collapses on stage. LOL
Biden speaks at 8PM.
Sunset in DC today is 8:26.
Team Hamas is in town for a "Day of Rage."
I'm thinking that Biden is going to incite a riot.
No, he'll safely be back in the crypt sleeping on Scranton soil.
She's so historic!
She’s amazing. According to media reports, she managed to draw thousands into a rally at a H.S. gym seating 800. And forget about the Trump rallies, this was apparently the largest ever. No one has seen crowds like these. Wonder how much it cost the campaign to pay people to endure that laugh?
It is criminal irresponsibility to let more than 800 into a gym that is only licensed for 800.
I bet Kamala is too cheap to buy more than 800 participants anyway.
That's probably all of the cocks she could fit in her mouth in one day.
It doesn't matter. Trump will not be convicted before January 20. After January 20 Jack Smith will not be needed. If Trump wins the prosecution will end. If Harris wins she can have the case reassigned to a Senate-confirmed prosecutor without having a conflict of interest.
If Trump wins this all disappears. If Harris wins, Biden could in a an act of magnanimity pardon Trump (of course along with Hunter).
I think there's a good argument to be made for pardoning Trump in the interest of healing and unity* but there's also a pretty good argument that you don't pardon people who refuse to admit to wrongdoing. If I were the pardoning authority, I would be reluctant to pardon someone who continues to adamantly insist that it's all a witchhunt. I would want to see some evidence, even a small amount, of contrition and repentance.
* Of course no one is naive enough to think that healing and unity would be the actual result. The Trump partisans would continue to be enraged that he was ever indicted at all, and the Trump haters would be enraged that he escaped justice. But it's still a nice fiction.
People who care about the rule of law, not just "haters" of Trump, will be upset.
Nixon resigned. Big move. I understand the strong opposition to Ford's pardon, but Nixon's resignation made the situation different. OTOH, Nixon refused to my knowledge generally to grant he was guilty, though that is not required for a pardon.
I don't think there is a very good reason to pardon Trump. The level of impunity and the message it will send to future wrongdoers alone would be appalling.
I would have been satisfied if he agreed to some plea deal where he agreed he was disqualified for committing insurrection, agreed to supply any evidence [he would not need to submit to testimony in court] helpful to prosecute others, and perhaps other odds and ends. Said plea deal could involve no jail time. It would have "healed" the country by ending a years-long battle.
" I think there’s a good argument to be made for pardoning Trump in the interest of healing and unity "
That is a profoundly unpersuasive argument.
Instead, right to fucking jail!
Here is the comprehensive version, a vividly persuasive argument. Oscar-worthy, one might say. If one had good judgment. Certainly better than anything we have seen from that talentless hack Ted Kramer.
And that's a fairly significant difference between Hunter Biden and Donald Trump. While Hunter is making technical arguments that the law as written doesn't apply to the facts of his case, he has never made the claim that he's factually innocent of what he's accused of doing. He has acknowledged from the beginning that he did drugs and that he filled out the form. He has publicly apologized to his family and to the country for what he did. He has never made the claim that it's all a witchhunt.
"He that covereth his sin shall not prosper, but he that confesseth and forsaketh them shall find mercy."
Except that is not true. Hunter argued that he was a druggie before AND after he filled out the form, but not the day of.
Well, all right, I had not heard that. If that's true, then that takes some, but not all, of the force from my argument. However, my original point about pardoning Trump still stands: It's bad policy to pardon someone without an admission of wrongdoing.
> It’s bad policy to pardon someone without an admission of wrongdoing.
The pardon power is there to address incidents of injustice. It can be used as a corrective or a preventative. Neither use should require an admission of wrongdoing.
There’s been no showing that any of these Trump indictments are an injustice, except in the fevered minds of his partisans. And Kamala Harris is most certainly not going to say that she's pardoning him to correct an injustice.
Sure. However, the whole point of having a policy is that it doesn't apply to just one incident or person. If you think Trump receiving a pardon should be conditional on acknowledging wrongdoing, that's one thing. But that doesn't and shouldn't make it such that the policy going forward is that all pardons should be conditional on making such an acknowledgement.
Sorry, I should have been more clear; I assumed that we were talking about pardons for people who have actually committed crimes. Of course pardoning innocent people is also a legitimate use of the pardon power. But in that case I would require a showing that the person is actually innocent and I don’t see that here either.
And there might also be other reasons, such as when laws against marijuana are repealed and the executive then issues a blanket pardon for everyone convicted of crimes involving marijuana. Or when Jimmy Carter made a policy decision to pardon Vietnam War draft evaders.
But again, I’m not talking about policy decisions or cases of actual innocence. I’m talking about a case in which there is every reason to believe that he's guilty and he just stubbornly won’t acknowledge it.
That's fine, but that's not what the courts have held is required to be "habitual user of controlled substances."
When I click on the link to the essay I receive the following response:
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access this resource.
Just me or has this happened to anyone else?
No issue. Could be your browser or VPN, if you’re using one. Definitely don’t use Chrome.
What's wrong with Chrome? Google too American for you? Too modern? Not bigoted enough?
Too evil?
How about we recognize this for the sham that it is and let it die like it deserves to?
Let's be more understanding. If they abandon lawfare, what do you expect them to do? Run on the issues?
Any reason the DOJ can't do both -- assign the case to the US Atty in Florida AND appeal Cannon's ruling?
Would not that make any appeal moot? I completely disagree with Smith/DOJ. There is no statutory authority, Judge Cannon has effectively exposed the Nixon language as unpersuasive dicta, and the appointment is a gross violation of the constitution. But I can understand that they would want the decision reversed. Might hamper future lawfare if nothing else.
I don't think so. Jack Smith has spent hours preparing the case, and they want him on it. Now they need a pinch hitter. That would be the argument.
Although the counter is, the US Atty just has to appear and supervise, Smith can do most of the work. I interned in the US Atty's office in NY. There were hundreds of lawyers working there, only the top, the US Atty herself, had been confirmed by the Senate. For most cases, she only had a high level awareness of what was going on.
But the US Attorney would technically have to seek a new indictment and pursue a new trial. The prior matter was dismissed/invalidated, and that includes the Smith indictment. Are you saying the issue of his unconstitutional appointment would survive after the DOJ abandons the case and seeks a new trial on a new indictment?
Actually, probably not.the EDFL case has been run, from well before it was filed, by his deputy, Jay Bratt, who has a day job as branch chief for the Couterintelligence and Export Control Branch at the DOJ.
I don’t see how that matters. There would have to be a new indictment. It’s a new case regardless of who in the staff of the special counsel had been working on the now dismissed trial.
"Any reason the DOJ can’t do both — assign the case to the US Atty in Florida AND appeal Cannon’s ruling?"
Assign the U. S. Attorney to prosecute a dismissed indictment??
The U. S. Attorney could ask the grand jury to reindict while simultaneously appealing the dismissal, but what would be the point? Judge Cannon's order is bad law and a stain on the federal judiciary. The appeal affords an opportunity for the Court of Appeals to vacate the order of dismissal and order reassingment to a different district judge upon remand.
Has the DOJ ever tried to prosecute the appeal of a dismissed case while at the same time fiiing a new indictment to try that same case?
"Has the DOJ ever tried to prosecute the appeal of a dismissed case while at the same time fiiing [sic] a new indictment to try that same case?"
Not that I know of. I could conceive of that happening if the period of limitations for the offense were about to expire and the merits of the appeal were a close question, but that is hypothetical.
I think that would be because the new indictment would render the issue of appeal moot. So there could never be an appeal if they refiled to try the same case.
Like the gratuitous reference to “faux outrage” — like biased partisans, they can’t simply admit people honestly disagree with them — this bit is rich:
It is imperative that the case against Trump be tried in the ordinary course of law, in the ordinary way, under an ordinary schedule.
Why should we start now?
Pushing to trial before the defendant becomes immune is upholding the rule of law, just as pushing to file before expiration of a statute of limitations is.
...and you don't think that "pushing to trial" is part of what's wrong here?
It absolutely is.
Acting with celerity so as not to squander an opportunity to do justice is part of what's right here.
Well, if Trump got convicted of a federal felony before the election and voters didn’t know about it, that seems like a big problem!
The joke there is that the charges were contrived in the first place. The indictment blithely assumes and presumes right over several significant facts and legal conclusions that are likely to go against the government - including that NARA, and not Trump gets to declare what are Presidential papers and what are personal papers, whether Trump declassified everything he ordered shipped to MAL, who has the ultimate say in declassification and the like, etc. We do know that Cannon was disinclined to follow the government’s theory about ownership of the documents. That is also likely to ultimately go up on appeal to the 11th Circuit, but not until they get to jury questions.
For the millionth time; the charges in the FL documents case DO NOT DEPEND on the documents classification. Nor would any of that matter to the obstruction charges. The subpoena that was obstructed did ask for documents bearing classification markings; however, the charges relate to national defense information (which could be classified or not). In other words, even assuming Trump did declassify them (which no evidence exists yet to prove he did) that wouldn't be a defense to the charges actually filed nor to the obstruction counts.
It's always the cover-up...as they say
Yes, that is another reason the case should be dismissed.
I think you're in essence arguing the Presidential Records Act out of the US code.
The Presidential Records Act says that all documents used by the president in the course of his duties belong to the government rather than the president. It (a) is irrelevant to every charge against Trump; and (b) would not help Trump if it applied.
Unfortunately, the Riva bot has not been programmed to do anything other than recite buzzwords like "Presidential Records Act"; it can't actually read and understand the statute.
Is there any way to turn off the little David-bot? It becomes quite a nuisance when it turns up to corrupt a comment stream.
Your I know you are but what am I subroutine could use some work.
These things seem to travel in little bot packs. Could be cowardice, Could be they're attracted to each other, but that I'd prefer not to know.
Back to Separation of Powers. Besides, there is really no mechanism in the PRA for the government to demand records back from a former President - just to request them. The criminal referral used to generate the subpoena also appears to be not supported by statute.
Uh, no referral is needed for a federal grand jury to issue a subpoena. It can do so at the request of a prosecutor, or even acting on its own initiative.
The grand jury is mentioned in the Bill of Rights, but not in the body of the Constitution. It has not been textually assigned, therefore, to any of the branches described in the first three Articles. It is a constitutional fixture in its own right. United States v. Williams, 504 U.S. 36, 47 (1992). Accordingly there can be no separation of powers problem with the grand jury's issuance of a subpoena.
True, but so what? There's also no mechanism in the PRA for the government to demand that a former president return an F-16, or the Resolute Desk, or the printing of the Declaration of Independence with a treasure map on the back. That doesn't mean that if Trump walked off with one of those things that nobody could ask for it back. They're. All. Government, Property. The PRA is simply a statute that defines all documents used by a sitting president as part of his official duties as property of the government rather than property of the president. It's 18 U.S. Code § 641 that allows the government to demand them back.
But — again — Trump is not being charged for walking off with presidential records, even though he could've been. Trump is charged with violating the Espionage Act, which separately requires someone in possession of NDI to return it to the government.
Once again, this is beyond legal gibberish. No "statute" is needed for a "criminal referral." Every single government employee, and every other person on the planet — don't even need to be an American — is entitled to make a "criminal referral."
Again, who gets to define NDI? Bureaucrats or the sitting President? And who gets to define what is government property and what is personal property? Bureaucrats or the sitting President? That was the Clinton Socks case.
Where were the prior calls against delaying for political purposes?
Dismissing Supreme Court precedent as mere dicta and then going against it is not sometimg most District Court judges do, let alone do repeatedly after having been previously reversed. Even if not directly needed for the holding, it’s usually persuasive and safe to go with. Especially in high-profile, politically fraught case where angels dare not tread.
What was the precedent that was dismissed?
Remember, that it is only binding precedent in the DC Circuit, and may still be dicta in the 11th Circuit.
Whether the relevant sentence in Nixon is precedent or dicta, I would like to see the Supreme Court provide an explanation as to how the cited statutes, or perhaps other statutes, justify the appointment of Smith. If only for us dumb guys.
Read the Adam Unikowsky piece linked the other day and again herein.
Thanks for that link. His stuff seems to be pretty on-point every time I've gone there to read up.
Dare I say he seems like a reasonable Republican.
So this entire Blackman post is dishonest, an example of the logical fallacy known as poisoning the well. He writes a post ranting about Smith's attempt to expedite this appeal being politically motivated, but Smith hasn't done any such thing. Smith has merely filed a timely notice of appeal of Cannon's decision.
Moreover, Blackman is being his usual dishonest self:
But that is not what Cannon did. If she had issued a ruling that Smith was disqualified, it would still have been meritless but it wouldn't have sparked outrage (real, not "faux"). She went much further, dismissing the grand jury indictment itself.
Yes, the dismissal seems groundless to me. I think a normal remedy would be to stay the case for 30 days to let new counsel substitute for Smith.
The grand jury is theoretically an independent body, so I don't see the basis for the dismissal of the indictment, even if Smith cannot represent the US in court.
If Smith's appointment was unlawful then aren't all his actions (making presentments to two grand juries) improper?
Jack Smith did not indict Donald Trump and his codefendants. The grand jury for the Southern District of Florida did. Even if one assumes arguendo that Jack Smith did not have authority to request an indictment, a District Court has no authority to dismiss the indictment on the basis of prosecutorial misconduct absent a finding that the defendants were prejudiced by such misconduct. The prejudicial inquiry must focus on whether any violations had an effect on the grand jury's decision to indict. Bank of Nova Scotia v. United States, 487 U.S. 250, 263 (1988).
The grand jury is an independent body which has not been textually assigned to any of the branches described in the first three Articles of the Constitution. It is a constitutional fixture in its own right. In fact, the whole theory of its function is that it belongs to no branch of the institutional Government, serving as a kind of buffer or referee between the Government and the people. United States v. Williams, 504 U.S. 36, 47 (1992). While presentments have largely fallen into disuse in federal courts, the authority of grand juries acting upon notice, either of their own knowledge or upon information obtained by them, and incorporating their findings in an indictment, still exists under the Fifth Amendment. See Hale v. Henkel, 201 U.S. 43, 61 (1906).
If Smith is not lawfully representing the USA, then the judge should not listen to anything he has to say.
The word "if" there is doing some heavy lifting.
As Cassandra told Wayne Campbell, if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass when he hopped. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV9U23YXgiY&t=4s
Note also that not guilty's take on the independent role of the grand jury is so far from controversy that it is recited in the federal Handbook distributed to all grand jury members.
But the notion that the grand jury acts as a mere, "referee"—also discussed as a specific instance in the "Handbook"—is potentially misleading. It might imply an equivalence between government and the jointly sovereign American People. No such equivalence exists, outside the Handbook's observation that a decision to prosecute requires both grand jury authority, and a government attorney's signature.
Nothing about that in any way overturns the first principle of American constitutionalism, which is the superiority of the People over the government. Neither Judge Cannon, nor anyone else in government, including the Supreme Court, has legitimate power to nullify Trump's federal indictments.
To insist otherwise is to turn American constitutionalism upside down. The sovereign constrains the government; the government must at all times remain powerless to constrain the sovereign.
Not guilty's comments on grand jury irregularities may or may not find support in a federal handbook. The relevant point is that it has nothing to do with this case, which did not involve irrregularities in grand jury proceedings. This case concerned the AGs unconstitutional appointment of Smith and a remedy for that constitutional error. Is the AG above the constititution in your book of Amercian principles of constitutionalism?
Riva, once more. Jack Smith did NOT indict Donald Trump and his codefendants; the grand jury for the Southern District of Florida did. Whether it concludes Jack Smith's appointment was valid or invalid, the Court of Appeals must review the dismissal of the (facially valid) indictment.
"An indictment returned by a legally constituted and unbiased grand jury, like an information drawn by the prosecutor, if valid on its face, is enough to call for trial of the charge on the merits. The Fifth Amendment requires nothing more." Costello v. United States, 350 U.S. 359, 363 (1956) [footnote omitted]. An indictment is facially sufficient if it, first, contains the elements of the offense charged and fairly informs a defendant of the charge against which he must defend, and, second, enables him to plead an acquittal or conviction in bar of future prosecutions for the same offense. Hamling v. United States, 418 U.S. 87, 117 (1974).
Your comments call to mind Ron White's catchphrase: "You can't fix stupid!"
Yes, just once more, and I'll try to be succinct. Smith's appointment was invalid. The invalidation of everything he did under this illegal, unconstitutional exercise of executive power, including seeking the indictment, was properly invalidated. You can cite irrelevant precedent regarding the constitutional sufficiency of indictments until you're blue in the face. They're still irrelevant. But do get back to me if you can explain why Smith himself didn't rely on your precedent, make your arguments, or offer any alternatives to the dismissal.
The indictment of Donald Trump and his codefendants IS NOT SOMETHING THAT JACK SMITH DID, for crying out loud.
"But do get back to me if you can explain why Smith himself didn’t rely on your precedent, make your arguments, or offer any alternatives to the dismissal."
In the unlikely event that the Court of Appeals agrees that the Special Counsel was not validly appointed, it must then address what remedy applies to the irregular appointment. The appellate court's consideration of the issue of what remedy applies is not limited by what the Special Counsel did or did not argue before the District Court.
When I was practicing I often said that I always preferred to have a good lawyer on the opposing side, because a bad one would make unnecessary work for me (running rabbits on matters not germane to the issues before the court).
you should have spent more time citing relevant precedent.
To be honest, not guilty, I’d prefer not to have these types of exchanges, but if you’re determined to pepper your comments with obnoxious belittling remarks, I’ll have to respond. Although to be fair, that seems to be the norm here.
You are correct; it did not. And therefore, the grand jury indictment is definitionally valid, and there were no grounds for dismissing it.
We've been through this before, not guilty. Your cited precedent is not applicable. Bank of Nova Scotia concerned errors in grand jury proceedings. This case presented a constitutional error in appointing a private party to excercise executive power. Invalidation of his illegal actions, at every stage, was the appropriate remedy. Smith himself didn't rely on Bank of Nova Scotia, nor did he suggest any alternatives.
A federal constitutional error can be held harmless where the reviewing court is able to declare a belief that the error was harmless beyond a reasonable doubt. The burden of showing harmlessness is on the prosecution. Chapman v. California, 386 U.S. 18, 24 (1967).
Judge Cannon in her order (p. 2) acknowledges that Article II, § 2, cl. 2 states that “Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in Heads of Departments.” She frames the issue as “is there a statute in the United States Code that authorizes the appointment of Special Counsel Smith to conduct this prosecution?”
The gravamen of Judge Cannon’s error is her analysis of federal statutes, not her treatment of Article II, § 2, cl. 2. That analysis presents questions of law reviewable de novo by the Court of Appeals. In the final analysis, it does not matter whether the Fed.R.Crim.P. 52(a) harmless error rule or the Chapman rule applies. Judge Cannon’s error is prejudicial under either standard of review.
Not sure I follow you. The Appointments clause requires that congress provide authorization to the AG for the appointment. There is no such statutory authoriy. Absent such authority, the Appointments clause is violated by the AGs appropriation of such power. I have never claimed her analysis isn't reviewable. I just said her reasoning and remedy are proper.
Whether or not the error complained of is of constitutional magnitude governs which standard of review the appellate court applies and which party bears the burden of showing whether the error is harmless or prejudicial.
The issue framed by Judge Cannon it at page 2 of her order, “is [whether] there a statute in the United States Code that authorizes the appointment of Special Counsel Smith to conduct this prosecution?” https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.672.0_2.pdf
I have also never opined on the standard of review to be employed in this case. Not sure why you're bringing that up. But I will say her decision makes plain that there was a constitutional error, and that was a violation of the appointments clause.
The standard of review and burden of persuasion on appeal are the relevant differences between constitutional error and non-constitutional error. I surmised (wrongly, it seems) that that was your reason for claiming that this case presented a constitutional error. The distinction is otherwise irrelevant.
I could understand if you disagreed that the AG's appointment of Smith violated the Appointments Clause but I have no idea why you don't seem to understand that is the issue at all. So I guess that about ends the conversation.
Get a clue, Riva. Judge Cannon wrote at page 2 of her order:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.672.0_2.pdf
Judge Cannon herself acknowledges that resolution of the constitutional issues is bound up inextricably with her interpretation of federal statutes.
You could have saved a lot of space by just posting the heading:
ORDER GRANTING MOTION TO DISMISS SUPERSEDING INDICTMENT
BASED ON APPOINTMENTS CLAUSE VIOLATION
Riva, have you read the full text of Judge Cannon's order? Yes or no?
Not sure what you’re really asking beyond the insulting question. Are you saying that the order granting the motion to dismiss the indictment based on an Appointments Clause violation wasn’t an order based on an Appointments Clause violation? Not sure that’s quite a winning argument but pass it on to the thug Smith. I hope he uses it.
If you're arguing something else, I honestly don't know what you're contending. Just spit out it out plainly if you a response.
On second thought, forget it. Just ignore my response.
There is "grave doubt" as to whether the grand jury would have indicted absent Smith's influence...
Why would there be? The evidence is the evidence. Nobody has remotely suggested that it was insufficient to support probable cause for the indictment.
Judge Cannon made no such finding in her order of dismissal.
"If violations did substantially influence this decision, or if there is grave doubt that the decision to indict was free from such substantial influence, the violations cannot be deemed harmless." Bank of Nova Scotia, 487 U.S. at 263.
I have heard no one claim that the grand jury indicted because Jack Smith asked them to, but they would not have so indicted if Jay Bratt (whose participation in the investigation long proceed that of Jack Smith) had done so instead.
Noop. The issue is not what might have happened if someone else had done what Smith did. It is whether Smith’s actual conduct had “substantial influence”. About that there is “grave doubt”.
No, kramartini, parroting buzzwords does not help here. If the grand jury would have found probable cause to indict no matter who the prosecuting attorney was, any doubt is illusory, not "grave," and is assuaged merely by framing the question.
Where in the record is there evidence of what another prosecutor would have done?
For an error involving de novo review of statutory analysis, the burden of showing prejudice is on the proponent of dismissal, per Bank of Nova Scotia. Jay Bratt's involvement in the investigation preceded Jack Smith's involvement, and he was lead counsel for the prosecution in proceedings before Judge Cannon. Jack Smith was not appointed until Donald Trump declared his candidacy for president, and it beggars belief to surmise that the investigation would not have investigation and prosecution, including presentation to the grand jury, would have ground to a halt if Smith if a Special Counsel had not been appointed.
Bank of Nova Scotia is not relevant. This isn't a case involving error in grand jury proceedings. If this case was so obviously relevant and rendered dismissal such a grave error, why didn't Smith cite it or suggest any alternatives to the dismissal?
You could make the argument that Smith didn’t indict Trump, but rather, the grand jury did. And maybe that the grand jury isn’t a part of the Judicial Branch. But it certainly isn’t part of the Executive Branch. For one thing, the President doesn’t have the power to fire it, nor does he have any power over selecting it.
What Smith formally did, by signing the indictment as Special Counsel was to purport to represent the Executive Branch in its plenary power to prosecute the case in the name of the United States. The panel of the DC Circuit, in ordering Judge Sullivan to dismiss the Flynn case, pointed out is that ONLY the Executive Branch can prosecute cases in the name of the US. Not the Judicial Branch, and that presumably extends to grand juries. Just like Sullivan couldn’t proceed without the DOJ against Flynn, the grand jury can’t proceed against Trump without an authorized attorney (presumably an Officer of the US) in the Executive Branch accepting the findings of the grand jury, and entering an appearance to prosecute the case in the name of the US.
So, while the allegations of the grand jury form the basis for the indictment, the indictment itself, as a court pleading, is the Executive Branch of the US bringing suit in the name of the US. And whether to indict or not, prosecute or not, etc, are completely discretionary on the part of the Executive Branch. Could the DOJ have ignored the grand jury, and refused to indict? Yes. It’s completely within their discretion.
In fact, one can only make that argument, because it's definitionally true.
So your argument is based upon… a vacated decision? (The D.C. Circuit heard that case en banc and reversed the panel decision to which you refer.)
Once again, gibberish from someone who pretends to be a lawyer. The indictment is the action of the grand jury. Not the DOJ. Did you actually graduate from an accredited law school? Whether to proceed with a prosecution is indeed the decision of DOJ. But the indictment is complete the moment the grand jury votes.
Bored Lawyer, that would be the normal remedy for errors in grand jury proceedings, not for the constitutional error of illegally appointing a private party to exercise executive power.
What do you expect from Prof. Blackman? Something better than South Texas College of Law Houston quality?
Make that "faculty position at South Texas College of Law Houston bought and paid for by Leonard Leo" quality.
Here is the indictment:
https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump-Nauta_23-80101.pdf
Check the last page. It’s signed by Jack Smith. His signature asserting that he did it as Special Counsel. According to Judge Cannon, he didn’t have the legal power to do so.
Smith not only did not have the legal power, the Biden administration violated the fundamental separation of powers under the Constitution. And all for some petty accusations of keeping some White House documents, in charges that have never been prosecuted before.
“Check the last page. It’s signed by Jack Smith. His signature asserting that he did it as Special Counsel. According to Judge Cannon, he didn’t have the legal power to do so.”
An indictment is facially sufficient if it, first, contains the elements of the offense charged and fairly informs a defendant of the charge against which he must defend, and, second, enables him to plead an acquittal or conviction in bar of future prosecutions for the same offense. Hamling v. United States, 418 U.S. 87, 117 (1974).
Fed.R.Crim.P. 7(c)(1) requires that an indictment be signed by an attorney for the government. It does not prescribe that the omission of such a signature vitiates the indictment, however. Per Fed.R.Crim.P. 1(b)(1):
18 U.S.C. 515 states:
The Attorney General on November 18, 2022 appointed Jack Smith as Special Counsel. https://www.justice.gov/d9/2023-10/10.06.23.%20-%20Special%20Counsel%20Oath%20Jack%20Smith.pdf
Quod erat demonstrandum, Jack Smith was authorized to sign the indictment and superseding indictment as Special Counsel, an authorized assistant to the Attorney General or as another attorney authorized by law to conduct proceedings under the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure as a prosecutor..
Isn’t that precisely the proposition that Judge Cannon rejected.
Yes it is the proposition that Judge Cannon rejected. I'm explaining how she got it wrong.
I made a typo when I wrote 18 U.S.C. 515. It should have been 28 U.S.C. § 515.
I just wonder what the point of appointing a special counsel is if you are going to appoint a partisan hatchet man.
It certainly doesn't fool anyone.
I think Cannon got it right, there is no delegation of power from Congress to the AG to appoint a special counsel, if he wants to appoint someone with them he has 94 US Attorneys who have been nominated and confirmed to choose from.
Yes, but as I pointed out supra as soon as an employee of the Biden DOJ is assigned to the case, you howler monkeys are going to howl that this an administration going after a convicted felon, rapist former president rival...and you would be right about the felon-rapist part
"I think Cannon got it right, there is no delegation of power from Congress to the AG to appoint a special counsel, if he wants to appoint someone with them he has 94 US Attorneys who have been nominated and confirmed to choose from."
Adam Unikowsky has done a deep dive into how Judge Cannon got it wrong. https://adamunikowsky.substack.com/p/dont-be-a-visionary?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1320082&post_id=146804181&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=1jcc17&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
He improvidently overlooks the judge's bad faith, but his analysis of the merits is spot on.
What is the basis for your claim of "bad faith" on Cannon's part?
She’s not a Democrat?
I think that the better explanation is that Cannon played straight until she caught the prosecution trying to cheat - most notably by trying to prevent the defense from viewing discovery and the documents that they were intending to use in court by slow walking security clearances for the defense attorneys, while pushing hard for a March trial date (presumably aimed at Super Tuesday). They were also overclassifying evidence, and requiring excess redactions with bogus claims of exposing sources, etc. She put her foot down, requiring that defense attorneys get their security clearances with enough time to properly prepare for trial, and moved the trial to May. Smith, Bratt, and the prosecutors lost their civility, and made it personal, with Cannon forced to threaten them with contempt for outbursts and incivility in court.
A very detailed analysis. But nothing demonstrates that any section in Chapter 33 of Title 28 provides authority to hire any attorney to represent the US in court. That authority comes from Chapters 31 and 35. Nuff said.
It's not at all clear to me Smith is a partisan hatchet man.
The right was going to call anyone on the case a partisan hatchet man, so that's meaningless.
I just wonder what the point of appointing a special counsel is if you are going to appoint a partisan hatchet man.
The role of a prosecutor is to prosecute. It is the role of judges to adjudicate. Attorney General Garland did the nation harm when he dithered and dawdled trying to act judge-like, while he was in fact not doing his job as the nation's top prosecutor.
Because Garland is the partisan hack. He wanted plausible deniability that his political attacks on his boss’ Major opponent weren’t partisan LawFare, aimed at election interference. He appears to have failed.
Cannon’s biggest sin, in the view of Democrats, and why they are so desperate to get her replaced, is that she has been exposing the corrupt underpinnings of his case before her, esp recently by unredacting documents showing the creation of the case.
It all started with meetings involving WH lawyers, Garland, and the branch chief of his Counterintelligence and Export Control Branch (CECB) (Jay Bratt). The WH ordered NARA to fully cooperate with the FBI, which appears to have turned that agency into a cat’s paw for Bratt (through their sister FBI organization, it’s Counterintelligence Division (CD). NARA didn’t provide their usual services to an outgoing President of providing a secure repository for their personal papers and Presidential records, until they could be sorted out. Instead of their usual practice of negotiating with former Presidents for documents they believed to be Presidential Papers, and thus, under their control, they demanded them (which had no statutory basis). In response to Trump’s failure to respond quickly enough providing them with their requested documents, they filed a criminal referral with the DOJ (Bratt), which doesn’t appear to have been authorized by statute. Bratt then issued a subpoena for the documents, then refused extensions of time to comply, as well as refusing to allow rolling discovery. Failing to comply quickly enough then was the justification for the MAL search warrant, overseen by Bratt, CECB, and CD. Somewhere along the way, Bratt was brought in as Smith’s Deputy Special Counsel (while continuing his job as CECB chief).
Keep in mind that the only documents marked as classified that the DOJ knew Trump had in his possession, prior to the MAL raid, were likely in the binder of documents outlining the perfidy, malfeasance, and misfeasance of CD and CECB setting up and handling Crossfire Hurricane (Russian collusion) and Carter Page FISA applications, that Trump formally ordered declassified his last full day in office.
Cannon knows much of this, and has exposed it through the unredactions she ordered in documents provided by the government during discovery. She appears to have gone along with the government’s requests for confidentiality, until she caught them slow walking the security clearances (likely CD again) for Trump’s lawyers, needed to view the documents the prosecution was expecting to introduce at trial (as well as the discovery about the origin’s of the investigation), while pushing hard for a March trial date. This was a big part of why she moved the trial date to May, to give Trump’s lawyers a chance to review the information in the documents that the government was trying to keep from them by slow walking their security clearances. That made Smith, Bratt, and the prosecutors irate, which led to a series of intemperate remarks and actions in court. Which only made matters worse.
The Court of Appeals docket shows that the government has not (yet) made any motion to expedite proceedings. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/68955302/united-states-v-donald-trump/
Professor Blackman acknowledges this: "I will report back when Smith files a motion to expedite the appeal to the Eleventh Circuit, or whether he seeks certiorari before judgment." Not if and when. What is the point of his essay other than to gin up faux outrage?
OK, so without any motion to expedite, how long would an appeal normally take to be heard and a decision reached?
Probably several months. There is no need for a transcript to be prepared here, so this case would move a bit faster than if a transcript were needed.
Glancing at the appeals document which was filed, the text is effectively “I intend to file an appeal” and nothing more.
I’m not sure how you get from that to “Smith seems to have determined that it is in the best interest of our democracy for voters to know whether Trump is convicted of a federal felony before voting.”
Cite? Why can’t it be that the current court precedent leans away from what Cannon decided?
Imagining motives, without evidence, is a bad habit to get into. Worse is when you’re creating them in opposition to evidence. So far as I’ve seen, court precedent does go against Cannon and it would be improper for him to not appeal, on that basis. The DOJ needs to know what process it needs to follow to create a Special Counsel. In the face of 3 votes to option A and 1 vote for option B, what's the recommendation? That they just ignore the law, granting the right to appoint Special Counsels, and decide that whole avenue is off limits, now?
Blackman is a partisan liar. The only reason he can call himself a law professor is that Leonard Leo handed big bags of cash to a shitty law school -- one of the worst law schools in America -- willing to sell a faculty appointment.
I think Blackman is just extrapolating from Smith's filing with SCOTUS in Trump v US.
Smith did ask for expedited treatment in that case, and got an accelerated schedule, at least for the arguments.
It's not a surmise out of left field, but Smith may be just going through the motions now, there is going to be no trial in any court before the election.
Typical Blackman burying the obvious with tortured logic.
It's well known that DOJ policy is to avoid actions that might interfere in elections. That doesn't mean you let political candidates get away with crimes, but you try to finish everything well before the election.
Above all else, you don't to avoid deliver an "October surprise" (hence why Comey's comments on the Clinton investigation were such a colossal F-up).
So Smith has two options
1) Get the trial concluded well before voting day.
2) Have the whole thing pause for a month or two mid-trial.
His case is dismissed so all he can do is file his appeal and wait.
The reach of your imagination -- much like your understanding of legal issues -- diminishes your perception.
Sounds like an overly long Magic 8Ball answer.
The so-called 60 day rule (which is in fact a DOJ custom rather than a rule) applies to the initiation of criminal proceedings, not to the continuation of proceedings previously instituted.
...which has been dismissed.
The proceedings were initiated with the filing of an indictment on June 8, 2023.
Sure, but the fact it's a custom rather than a rule means it's more about the principal, try to avoid the appearance of interfering in the election.
A verdict coming down a week or two before the election would undoubtedly have a big impact on the poles, one that would eventually even out after a while. Even a verdict coming a week or two after would dominate the headlines. Either is a big problem if you want to avoid appearances of bias, so you really want to wrap up everything before then.
Not going to happen. It’s a long way still to trial, even if this is decided on an expedited basis by the 11th Circuit. It still has to survive the Supreme Court, and there are likely at least three firm votes for Cert (Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch), and only one more would be required.
But then there are other outstanding issues that would need to be resolved before trial. One is who owns the documents. Cannon has indicated, in her proposed jury instructions, that she isn’t buying the assumptions in the Indictment that they belong to the government. She proposed two alternatives (which means that it isn’t yet appealable), neither of which Smith and Bratt liked. Then, there is the question of whether Trump could illegally possess national defense information in the documents he shipped from the WH to MAL, given his plenary power to declassify them at the time. Etc.
Those issues could get resolved very rapidly if Cannon gets thrown off the case and another judge assigned.
So, that’s what you are hanging your hat on - replacing Cannon with another judge. Burden is pretty high for that, and esp for the prosecution. My view is that it is highly wishful thinking. We shall see.
I don't see how the trial could get started anyway. Cannon has many of the same immunity issues to deal with as Chutkan. Trump was still President when he packed his boxes to take to Florida, Nauta was a Trump aide and a government employee at the time too, and some of the charges relate to conduct that may be covered by immunity. From Wikipedia:
"The original six charges against Nauta relate to allegations that he, acting at Trump's direction, moved boxes that included illegally retained classified documents and national defense-related documents to Trump's residence, and then lied about it to federal investigators."
Chutkan will probably have to deal with the special counsel issue too, along with its attendant appeals.
She does not. Precisely zero of the charges against Trump in Florida relate to anything he did while president.
This does not refer to moving boxes from the WH to Florida. It refers to moving boxes around Mar-A-Lago, all of which happened after Trump left office.
Very much disagree. The boxes were ordered shipped by Trump while he had plenary declassification authority.
Well, it's been explained to you at least a hundred times by now how Trump's legal team has never made a single claim of declassifying anything, so the only possible conclusion at this point is that you're too stupid to learn anything.
Not there yet. Need to get to when they argue about admissibility, etc of each piece of evidence.
So what?
Wikipedia is hardly a reliable guide to what the indictment in Florida alleges. The superseding indictment is here: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.85.0_8.pdf None of the conduct alleged to be criminal occurred while Donald Trump was in office.
In the D.C. case, proceedings in the District Court will resume upon remand, on or about August 2. Judge Chutkan likely will rule forthwith on outstanding motions that were pending at the time of the stay pending appeal. Hearings on what conduct alleged in the indictment involves the exercise of core constitutional functions to which immunity attaches, which conduct involves non-core official acts as to which the prosecution has rebutted the presumption of immunity and which conduct involves unofficial acts may take up to several weeks.
"Chutkan will probably have to deal with the special counsel issue too, along with its attendant appeals."
That matter, which Donald Trump has not yet raised by motion, can be dealt with summarily. Judge Chutkan is bound by D.C. Circuit precedent upholding the power of the Attorney General to appoint a special counsel. In re Grand Jury Investigation, 916 F.3d 1047 (D.C. Cir. 2019). A ruling in favor of the prosecution there will not be appealable until after trial.
A jury trial in D.C. cannot be concluded before the election. When jury selection can begin remains to be seen. The “mini-trial” involving which acts are official or unofficial will likely be concluded prior to the election. That will involve much of the same evidence that the prosecution would present at trial.
Trump wasn't President when he continued to improperly store the boxes.
And he certainly wasn't President when he lied to the FBI (and his own lawyers) in response to a subpoena.
Let's start the trial the day after the election, wrap it up before the inauguration. If Trump wins he can be released from prison to function as president. Or not. If he doesn't win, he can die in prison, as deserved.
Well, doesn’t that depend on whether they contained classified (etc) documents?
No, it doesn’t. The relevant question for purposes of 18 U.S.C. § 793(e) is whether the documents (whether classified or not) contained national security information.
The blather about classification status is a red herring, except that documents bearing classification markings were seizable under the search warrant.
And who gets to determine that? Some bureaucrats working for his (former now) political enemy? Or the sitting President at the time the documents were ordered shipped to MAL, with plenary declassification authority?
The interesting thing about the indictment is that it uses National Security Information in the charges, but talks about Classified Documents in the body. Presumably, by the context, the Special Counsel is treating them the same, except maybe to get around Trump’s plenary declassification authority at the time he ordered the documents shipped to MAL. It still comes down to the question of whether he had unlawful possession of such documents, and who gets to decide.
"And who gets to determine that? Some bureaucrats working for his (former now) political enemy? Or the sitting President at the time the documents were ordered shipped to MAL, with plenary declassification authority?"
Uh, twelve men and women in a jury box get to determine that.
Except that the big question is a legal question - is declassification (etc) a core Presidential power?
The answer is the same as the last six times you pretended to be a lawyer who doesn't understand that a jury decides questions of fact.
Hey. Pot calling kettle black.
You’re the guy who provided a long string cite “proving” that § 1001 didn’t require Materiality for false statements. After reading the 8 or so cases you provided, it turns out that only a single one was even remotely relevant, and it was easily distinguished. Probably a majority predated a change in § 1001 that added Materiality for false statements, including the Scalia SCOTUS opinion (and may be why Materiality was added). One was even marked as Not Published, and that it had thus no precedential value. Only that one close case was from the relevant 11th Circuit. It was the sort of lawyering where strings of cites are pulled from digests and not double checked.
And Separation of Powers and Executive Power are legal questions, not questions of fact. You can’t get to questions of fact decided by a jury, before you have addressed legal questions. I can see the allure of doing it the other way - where you get mistrials and retrials, and where you get convictions that won’t survive appeal (e.g. the NYC case). Politically, that’s advantageous for the Dems.
The SD FL indictment just assumed away these issues. But this judge, likely the 11th Circuit, and very likely the Supreme Court are not going to let those issues ever get to a jury.
Although the classification status of the documents is a red herring, the fact of their original classification has evidentiary value because the criteria for classification overlaps the definition of national defense information.
But both are subordinate to a President’s plenary power to override and ignore those classifications at will.
Whether information is national defense information is a question of fact and not subject to Presidential decree.
Ha! Ha!
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/07/appeals-court-deals-blow-jack-smith-classified-documents/