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En Banc Fifth Circuit Upholds Mississippi Felon Disenfranchisement
The full court rejects an Eighth Amendment challenge to a provision in the Mississippi Constitution.
Yesterday, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, sitting en banc, upheld a provision of the Mississippi Constitution that deprives convicted felons of the right to vote against an Eighth Amendment challenge. The vote was 13-6. Judge Edith Jones wrote for the majority, joined by Chief Judge Richman and Judges Smith, Elrod, Southwick, Willett, Ho, Duncan, Engelhardt, Oldham, and Wilson. Judges Haynes and Ramirez also concurred in the judgment. Judge Dennis dissented, joined by Judges King, Stewart, Graves, Higginson, and Douglas.
Judge Jones' opinion for the en banc court in Hopkins v. Watson begins:
This en banc court convened to reconsider a panel decision holding that Section 241 of the Mississippi Constitution, which disenfranchises those convicted of certain felony offenses, fails the test of the Eighth Amendment, as incorporated by the Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause. We reject that result because the United States Constitution cannot properly be so interpreted. The Supreme Court, in Richardson v. Ramirez, 418 U.S. 24, 94 S. Ct. 2655 (1974), reaffirmed a body of constitutional law expressly permitting States to enact felon disenfranchisement. And even if modern jurisprudence under the Eighth Amendment is applicable, which it is not, the case law cannot be stretched to outlaw Section 241.
Mississippi, like all States, imposes various restrictions on who may vote. These include mental competency, residency, age, citizenship, registration, and criminal history qualifications, all of which are laid out in Section 241 of the Mississippi Constitution:
Every inhabitant of this state, except idiots and insane persons, who is a citizen of the United States of America, eighteen (18) years old and upward, who has been a resident of this state for one (1) year, and for one (1) year in the county in which he offers to vote, and for six (6) months in the election precinct or in the incorporated city or town in which he offers to vote, and who is duly registered as provided in this article, and who has never been convicted of murder, rape, bribery, theft, arson, obtaining money or goods under false pretense, perjury, forgery, embezzlement or bigamy, is declared to be a qualified elector, except that he shall be qualified to vote for President and Vice President of the United States if he meets the requirements established by Congress therefor and is otherwise a qualified elector.
MISS. CONST. ART. XII, § 241. Mississippi disenfranchises these felons for life, though voting rights may be restored by a two-thirds vote of the State legislature under Section 253 of the Mississippi Constitution.
Laws like Mississippi's Section 241 have faced many unsuccessful constitutional challenges in the past. When the Supreme Court ruled that the Equal Protection Clause does not bar States from permanently disenfranchising felons, it dispensed some advice to the losing parties:
We would by no means discount these arguments if addressed to the legislative forum which may properly weigh and balance them. . . . But it is not for us to choose one set of values over the other. If respondents are correct, and the view which they advocate is indeed the more enlightened and sensible one, presumably the people . . . . will ultimately come around to that view. And if they do not do so, their failure is some evidence, at least, of the fact that there are two sides to the argument.
Richardson v. Ramirez, 418 U.S. at 55, 94 S. Ct. at 2671. In other words: go and convince the State legislatures. Do the hard work of persuading your fellow citizens that the law should change. The paramount lesson of the Constitution and Richardson is that the changes sought by Plaintiffs here can and must be achieved through public consensus effectuated in the legislative process, not by judicial fiat.
The opinion concludes:
Holding Art. XII, Section 241 of the Mississippi Constitution categorically unconstitutional, even as to a limited set of offenders, is at odds with the Supreme Court's and other courts' decisions, would thwart the ability of the State's legislature and citizens to determine their voting qualifications, and would require federal courts overtly to make legislative choices that, in our federal system, belong at the State level.
The dissent begins:
The right to vote is the essence of a democratic society and "preservative of all rights." Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356, 370 (1886). Yet Article XII, Section 241, of the Mississippi Constitution of 1890 mandates permanent, lifetime disenfranchisement of a person convicted of "murder, rape, bribery, theft, arson, obtaining money or goods under false pretense, perjury, forgery, embezzlement or bigamy."1 Disenfranchisement extends to free people who have completed all terms of their sentences. The Plaintiffs, representing a class of persons who have been convicted of Section 241's crimes and have completed the terms of their sentences, challenge the constitutionality of Section 241. The Plaintiffs are both Black and White, and their Eighth Amendment argument is independent of the "invidious" discrimination that originated Section 241.2 Rather, the Plaintiffs argue permanent disenfranchisement of free persons who have completed all terms of their sentences constitutes cruel and unusual punishment in violation of the Eighth Amendment. Under well-settled principles of Eighth Amendment jurisprudence, the Plaintiffs have met their burden. A national consensus to this effect has now formed among a large majority of the states.
To dodge this conclusion, the majority largely conflates the Plaintiffs' challenge to the punishment at issue in this case—permanent disenfranchisement of free persons who have completed all terms of their sentences—with a challenge to felon disenfranchisement in general. Where the majority does reach the issue before us, it picks and chooses among precedents, ignoring well-established Eighth Amendment principles, while stretching the Supreme Court's Equal Protection decision in Richardson v. Ramirez, 418 U.S. 24 (1974), beyond all recognition. What is even worse, the majority finds the Eighth and Fourteenth Amendments mutually exclusive, flouting Supreme Court precedent that "provisions [granting] Congress or the States specific power to legislate in certain areas . . . are always subject to the limitation that they must not be exercised in a way that violates other specific provisions of the Constitution." Williams v. Rhodes, 393 U.S. 23, 29 (1968).
I respectfully dissent.
There may be a petition for certiorari, but this does not appear to be a likely grant.
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The constitutionality of felon disenfranchisement would appear to be a closed issue, given that the 14th amendment expressly authorizes it.
While I don't have a problem in practice with limiting rights of people who've proven they can't live peacefully in society, I've always had a bit of a philosophical problem with the vote.
They are in prison because of laws passed by elected officials. If there's no longer a way for them to affect that by the vote, regardless of how unlikely in practice, that seems like a one way door capture.
I'm not supporting it as a policy choice. I'm fine with depriving people IN prison of the vote, for the duration of their sentence, but I'd prefer to restore to them ALL their rights when that sentence is done.
Not so much out of concern for felons, but just to get rid of the mechanisms needed to make sure that part of the population walking around free are second class citizens. Those mechanisms are dangerous and intrusive, and really not worth the trivial gain from using them.
But, as a constitutional issue? There's no case for it being unconstitutional, the position is utterly ruled out by the 14th amendment's text.
I concur.
A purpose of criminal penalties is to make notice after setting bounds with a temporary sentence, except for otherwise cases. When such sentence has been fulfilled, then resumption of full citizenship must resume accordingly.
Sometimes conditions are placed after a sentence has been fulfilled, but they must not limit citizenship since the purpose of a penalty is to be temporary, and once done it is finished and a life shall be then be resumed as before.
A permanent sub-class of citizenship can not be allowed for those outside of incarceration, for it would undermine stability and fuel internal decay by way of debasement.
what
Penalties for breaking laws are temporary, except for those deemed permanent, such as an absolute life sentence or death penalty.
I agree that criminal penalties are temporary, except for the ones that aren't temporary.
Is there some insight you think follows from that seemingly obvious fact?
I'm guessing his theory is that a lifetime voting ban imposed by the state constitution doesn't count as part of the sentence.
He would presumably be perfectly satisfied if the state constitution mandated that judges must impose a lifetime voting ban explicitly as part of the sentence of any felon. And that judges duly did that as well as tacking on a time limited term of imprisonment.
Seems a bit of a waste of effort just to cheer Eric up. Not that I wish him to be uncheerful.
lol, got 'em
The flip side of that, Brett, is that a lot of the "second class" stuff is actually part of a conditional early release from prison.
In other words, instead of the probation, extend that as part of the actual sentence. Or simply execute all felons, which is what was once done before prisons were built.
Yeah, but a lot of the conditions on conditional release from prison tacitly assume the person is going to be lawful, so what's the point?
Like you order somebody not to own a gun, you think they're going to obey if they intend to resume armed robbery?
The (primary) idea isn’t you can trust them to not try to get a gun. It’s that as soon as they do get a gun, you can send them back to jail without having to wait for them to commit an armed robbery. And, of course, for the knowledge that that can happen to deter them from trying to get one in the first place.
“It’s that as soon as they do get a gun, you can send them back to jail without having to wait for them to commit an armed robbery.”
Did you actually type those words without noticing how freaking stupid they were? HOW does a felon getting a gun result in them end up in jail? Does it stick to their fingers when they pick it up, and drag them there? Maybe the cops have a bank of indicator lights at police headquarters, that light up any time a felon touches a gun?
What has to pass for a reasoning process for somebody to write the above words and think they’ve actually made an argument?
So freaking what if it's illegal for him to have a gun? It's not going to keep him from getting one, it doesn't imply that the cops KNOW he's gotten one.
I guess in your universe the fact that it's illegal for everybody to have meth means that people who get it immediately end up in jail, too, so laws against meth solved a problem.
The alternative is even more dangerous-- felons and especially prisoners care a LOT about criminal law, whereas for the typical citizen it's just one of many issues. Having a voting bloc whose profession is crime and then just naturally votes for the soft on crime politicians is a recipe for the special interest group of criminals benefiting at the expense of the general public.
I disagree. Even if criminals did come together as a coherent voting block, their victims will always outnumber them and will be at least as equally coherent as a voting block.
And if convicted felons are more than a tiny fraction of the population, you're convicting WAY too many people of felonies.
Seems kind of victim blaming. If a lot of people choose to commit murders and robberies, and are then convicted of felonies, it's their own fault. High crime is the fault of criminals, take it up with them.
It takes two to tango. High crime is the fault of the people who commit crimes, and the legislators who decide which things are disenfranchisable crimes.
The list is "murder, rape, bribery, theft, arson, obtaining money or goods under false pretense, perjury, forgery, embezzlement or bigamy"
As I said downthread, the bigamy one is preposterously dated. But other than that, who is it you want to let vote? Is it the murderers or the arsonists?
This is public theory 101-- people who do not mine zinc for a living vastly outnumber people who do. But we still make pennies because Big Zinc won't let us stop, because zinc miners care A LOT more than non zinc miners. So we keep on pointlessly making pennies, losing money each time we do so (about 1.5 cents to make a penny). Similarly, people who are professional criminals are going to care a lot more about these issues than the general public, and even those that are sometimes crime victims. Pro criminals are naturally going to be single issue voters on crime because crime is their life; for everybody else, crime is one issue among many.
Yes. Judge Richman (f/k/a Judge Owen) is kind of disingenuous. Her argument, "Don't like it? Get the legislature to change it" may be fine in most cases, but is ridiculous in this context. "Hey, you can't vote? Lobby people who don't care what you say because you can't vote."
Florida changed it.
The idea is that people who commit certain sorts of crimes have demonstrated a disinterest or even active hostility to the public good, and so should be deprived of any say in who decides what the public good is.
If they really think that's contrary to the public good, they can persuade the people who still have a say, because they're still enjoying the default presumption that they care about the public good, of that.
If the only people who think voting by felons contributes to the public good ARE felons, then that's pretty good evidence that it probably doesn't.
In fact, I think voting by felons doesn't so contribute. I only favor it because the mechanisms necessary to prevent felons from voting have costs, and I think it fails a cost/benefit analysis.
Um, Florida changed it by referendum, not by lobbying the legislature.
If people have demonstrated they can't abide by society's rules, why should they get a say as to what those rules should be, going forward?
Where does it "expressly authorize" it?
There is a penalty (reduction of the House delegation) for abridgment of the right to vote and doing so for committing a crime along with being male and over 21 [overridden by later amendments] is not included.
That's it. The fact a specific penalty covers limited grounds does not mean the other stuff is okay in all cases.
How it is applied matters. The Supreme Court had held that a disenfranchisement motivated by race is unconstitutional.
This very law was alleged to be motivated by race. The circuit earlier, in a split vote (10-7), rejected that argument. SCOTUS didn't take up that claim though Jackson and Sotomayor dissented.
A law can also be a cruel and unusual punishment. The argument here was rejected 13-6 though two judges concurred without opinion.
Lifetime disenfranchisement that is treated as a penalty or is an excessive fine can violate the Eighth Amendment (via the 14A) even if the practice will not lead to a reduction of a state's House delegation (the penalty never was enforced anyhow). The means it is applied, such as complaints about the Florida process to collect fines, also might violate due process of law.
Anyway, Chris Geidner talks more about the case here:
https://substack.com/inbox/post/146756427
Section 2 seems to acknowledge pretty clearly that a state can deny the right to vote based on the person having committed a crime. (I actually didn't know this so hat tip to Brett for pointing it out.)
I agree that it seems like bad policy, but not all bad policies get fixed through Constitutional challenges. Would be nice if we had the ability to fix anything through legislative means and/or even the occasional Constitutional amendment these days.
Please don't raise the tiresome obvious reality that all "bad policy" is not unconstitutional. I cited specific constitutional texts that can be violated.
Read the provision. It says that certain types of abridgment of the right to vote will result in a reduction of the House delegation. That's it.
Justice Rehnquist for a unanimous court in Hunter v. Underwood, for example, said "we are confident that § 2 [of the 14th Amendment] was not designed to permit the purposeful racial discrimination."
It also doesn't override other possible unconstitutional barriers to some applications of felony disenfranchisement.
Well, sure, if you disenfranchised felons in a racially discriminatory manner, ("Only black forgers get disqualified!") it would violate the Constitution. But I guess we're back to disparate impact reasoning, aren't we? Can't disqualify felons on the basis of crimes blacks commit more often than whites, even if you disqualify the whites who commit them, too?
Disparate impact is bs.
The law in question was challenged on grounds of its purpose too.
But, so we agree: disenfranchisement laws can violate some constitutional provisions. We are just debating details.
I'm not sure why you think that's some sort of win.
Just about anything can be framed that way.
Maybe permanent felon disenfranchisement is unconstitutional and the 5th Circuit probably isn't the place to get a fair evaluation of the arguments on the merits, but also I agree with Professor Adler that this seems pretty unlikely to end up in front of the Supreme Court so to the extent the courts have an opinion on this it seems like they mostly disagree with you.
I would not be surprised if the specific holding is not overturned.
My larger point is that there are constitutional problems with certain types of disenfranchisement laws. Even this Supreme Court would agree with that, at least in extreme cases.
Absolutely. The thing is, those problems don't stem from them being felon disenfranchisement laws. They have to relate to some OTHER aspect of the law.
In the same manner making it illegal only for blacks to rape would be unconstitutional, but, not because making it illegal to rape would be.
The issue here is that the law in question genuinely is not racially discriminatory. Your race is utterly irrelevant to enforcement of it, the exact same crimes invoke it regardless of skin color. That the races on average commit different crimes in different numbers has no constitutional significance.
The Fourteenth Amendment does not, of course, expressly authorize a lifetime voting prohibition.
". But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime,"
I don't know why anyone would read that as NOT expressly authorizing felon disenfranchisement, and it doesn't say anything about temporary.
I would agree that it implies very strongly that at least some forms of felon disenfranchisement are sufficiently acceptable that they shouldn't affect a state's representation in Congress. It says nothing about whether there are limits on what kinds of felon disenfranchisement are permissible, and certainly doesn't "expressly" bless any of them.
It expressly blesses felon disenfranchisement in general, which is not to say that specific applications couldn't violate some constitutional clause.
But not on the basis of being felon disenfranchisement. On the basis of incorporating a religious test, or discriminating on the basis of race, or imposing it without jury trials,
Brett has the better argument here.
A14 S2 is about apportionment according to their respective number of persons, and will be reduced if any are denied the right to vote, or is in anyway abridged, except for rebellion, or other crime.
So, those who participated in rebellion, or other crime, will be counted.
Yes, despite being disenfranchised.
Look, at the time they didn't actually think the federal government could legitimately claim the power to just outright tell a state what it could do. The most they could do was somewhat penalize choices they disapproved of.
It's not like today when the people running the federal government generally assume that they have the power to do anything they damned well want, even things that the Constitution prohibits if they have a good reason for doing them. (With the threshold for "good" dropping all the time.)
The opinion is here.
The Eighth Amendment argument does seem completely untenable as a matter of originalism, precedent, and common sense. The fact that there's any authority for it at all is a further illustration of how far anti-death penalty jurisprudence distorts the law.
The concept of “civil death” when you are convicted of a crime might make it justified on originalist grounds, though the Supreme Court has never been consistently originalist.
But, it is unclear how it is a violation of “common sense” to think that a lifetime ban on the basic incident of being a citizen in a democracy because you committed a range of crimes, sometimes when you are unable to pay your fines, can be in some cases be an Eighth Amendment violation.
Not only capital crimes are covered. The dig at capital punishment jurisprudence is unfounded. It also is not barred by precedent. The precedent allows felony disenfranchisement, not blessing its legitimacy across the board.
It's not "civil death" when you're convicted of a "crime"; That was reserved for felonies, not misdemeanors.
So you've got a good argument for misdemeanant disenfranchisement being unconstitutional, as well as the deprivation of misdemeanants of any other constitutional right.
If you want to become Mr. Legal Scholar here, the word "crime" does not always cover misdemeanors. Thus, we have "high crimes and misdemeanors" in the Impeachment Clause.
I suppose -- without looking -- the word "crime" in the 14A, sec. 2 might not have traditionally covered every single violation of the law, including a violation that can result in a small fine or a few days in jail.
I find that of mostly academic interest at the end of the day.
It's all academic until some state gets the bright idea to disenfranchise people with traffic tickets...
Or unpaid child support. THAT I could actually see some state trying.
Why are you just referencing traffic tickets?
Your definition of “crime” covered non-felonies generally.
Florida disenfranchised people who still owe fines, including those arising from traffic offenses. A constitutional amendment addressed it but then the legislature artificially limited it.
For instance, one previous guide to obtaining clemency to restore civil rights covered financial liabilities over $1000 arising from “any criminal conviction or traffic infraction”
https://www.usccr.gov/files/pubs/docs/EX-FelonVRFL.pdf
That's not quite an accurate description of what happened in Florida. In fact, it's a very inaccurate description of what happened.
Florida generally disenfranchises felons. You don't get disenfranchised for not paying a fine, you get disenfranchised for committing a felony.
A group came along and promoted a ballot proposition to restore the right to vote for any felon who had served their sentence, including paying all fines and penalties associated with their sentence. That language about having to pay off fines associated with your felony was right there in the ballot proposition, and the promoters were very up front about the requirement before the election.
It passed, and then the Florida legislature enacted a law which faithfully implemented the ballot proposal's language, including the bit about financial penalties. And the proposal backers then went to court over it, trying to get that part of their own proposal overturned!
And the courts refused to do it.
How? I thought the fourteenth amendment expressly authorized it!
The "civic death" argument specifically, because civic death didn't follow from misdemeanors, only felonies.
How? There is no question that a state can punish all felonies with mandatory life imprisonment. Are you seriously suggesting that there's a colorable argument that not being able to vote is worse than spending the rest of your life in jail?
You've missed my point. The authorities that the dissent relies on are death penalty cases, which deliberately distorted the Eighth Amendment to strongarm unpopular policy positions on capital punishment into law. The fact that judges are trying to leverage those precedents into a non-capital context is precisely the problem.
You referenced "any authority."
Non-capital cases also can and were cited.
I don't have a strong opinion on felon disenfranchisement, mostly because I haven't heard the arguments for or against it. But setting aside the issue of whether it is a sound policy, it is abundantly clear that it is at least constitutional.
Don't worry Democrats there are plenty of other states with zero election security for you to steal elections in.
I probably do generally support disenfranchising felons, but it's funny to me that bigamy made the list. A bigamist is somehow making two (or more) spouses happy at the same time, clearly they know something about compromise; I'd probably vote for them and certainly let them vote.
I didn't even know that bigamy was a felony, yet one serious enough to warrant lifetime prohibition from voting. What is that statute of limitations for the bigamy felony? Maybe at least one member of the en banc panel can still be prosecuted. Is there anyone on death row or serving a life sentence for bigamy in mississippi? I think the lesson here is just not to live in mississippi, or anywhere else in the 5th circuit.
The real trap with bigamy is that it also applies to common law marriage, I've heard. Shack up with one woman too long, then marry another, and, wham! They've got you.
Better to stick with one mail order bride (after a divorce or two)?
Common law marriage is, itself, a disaster that every state that still recognizes should repeal on a going forward basis (extant ones are problematic, but I won't upset the apple cart by rescinding then). It leads to very stupid litigation such as: Are we married? If we are married, then when did we start being married? I have a friend going through this and he may lose millions because he let a girlfriend stay at his house for free a little too long.
Seriously, screw that noise, if you want the risks/rewards of marriage, then file the paperwork with the government. In the interests of equity, I'd also waive the fees for paupers, they can get married at the courthouse for free.
What state does your friend live in? That's not how common law marriage operates in any jurisdiction I'm familiar with.
Province. British Columbia is brutal-- if you have a live in mate for six months, then you're married and in the event of a split entitled to half of the gain since the "marriage" began. So even if you accumulated a wealth of ten million before and it passively gained two million bucks because the stock market was good, the girlfriend gets half even if she did absolutely nothing. If that's NOT how it works on this side of the border, then I'm glad to hear it.
Common law marriage requires that one hold oneself out as married, not merely that one lives together.
I imagine that particular fact (the holding oneself out) is often exactly what is disputed.
At not just he said - she said. Probably no shortage of cases where the "husband" was saying one thing to the "wife" and "in laws", and something different elsewhere.
Just "shack[ing] up" with another person is not sufficient to establish common law marriage.
Last I checked, Massachusetts still had a fornication statute on the books, and when I was teaching Business Law in 1988s, an intrepid student pointed out a SJC *conviction* for violation of the Commonwealth's adultery statute.
I honestly wonder if any bigamy statute could be upheld post the Texas sodomy decision (not the gay marriage one, but the one before that) and wasn't Common Law Marriage largely about parentage in a pre-DNA era?
I am of the opinion that if you have served your sentence and are being released back into civil society, then all of the rights you enjoyed before should be restored.
"Am I rehabilitated? It's just a nonsense word. So you go on and mark my application for parole "rejected," young man* and stop wasting my time. Because to be honest, I don't care at all."
Red
I guess the half-percent or so of Prof. Adler that might qualify as libertarian didn't have much opinion he wishes to share concerning the authoritarian right-wing bigots of Mississippi.
Carry on, clingers. So far as your betters permit.
https://reason.com/2024/07/18/federal-appeals-court-upholds-mississippis-jim-crow-era-felon-voting-ban/?comments=true#comment-10650464
https://reason.com/2024/07/18/federal-appeals-court-upholds-mississippis-jim-crow-era-felon-voting-ban/?comments=true#comment-10650461
Bigamy is punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment. Miss Code § 97-29-13. Unless I've overlooked something, it's subject to the normal two year statute of limitations.
I would be surprised to learn that any state doesn't criminalize bigamy, although this punishment does seem on the harsh side.
Have a semi-surprise. A few years back, Utah decriminalized it. (It is now a ticketable offense, with a $750 fine.)
Well, of course if any state is going to decriminalize bigamy, it's going to be Utah. They had to be forced by the US army to outlaw it in the first place.
Unless I've overlooked it, the post doesn't have a link to the opinion. It's here: https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/19/19-60662-CV1.pdf
The purpose of law is to control a population by setting bounds of behavior whereby crossing those bounds can result in penalties. Those penalties, once fulfilled, must always return the offender to full status, excepting the obvious death penalty. Think of the penalty box in hockey.
If a different system is wanted, then let it be so.
There could be a demerit system, where your vote is counted at 100% until an infraction, and then permanently reduced by a set amount for each "crime". Think of the hockey player with added friction on his blades.
Why?
Isn’t that exactly what happened?
“Those penalties, once fulfilled…”
If you’re assuming the penalty is imprisonment, and the loss of rights is a mere side effect.
The penalty itself could be “no voting for life”. One could imagine this being the entire standalone penalty, e.g. for a nonviolent person who had a pattern of voting illegally.
I could easily see "no driving for life" for repeated offenses like DWI or racing on public streets.
What crime exactly are children, non-citizens, and non-residents being punished for? What exactly were they convicted of? If not meeting a franchise qualification can be said to be a form of “punishment,” how can the fact that most of the world’s total human population isn’t eligible to vote, and citizens of one state or town aren’t eligible to vote in another state ot town, be constitutional? Were women being punished before the 19th amendment?
Voting qualifications are a matter of status. Failing to meet a voting qualification simply has nothing to do with punishment. Being a felon is as much a matter of status as being a minor, a non-resident, or a non-citizen.
Nothing to do with punishment.
No, the initial penalty box WAS execution.
Execution for theft of a loaf of bread was common in England at one point, and then sanctions were reduced. But still, the implicit penalty box WAS execution.
OK, we won't kill you, but in exchange you can't vote.
Seems fair to me...
Speaking of disenfranchisement, to the absolute surprise of no one but Gaslightr0, a left voter rights group was busted trying to disenfranchise 1776 Patriot types.
Here's the lede:
https://headlineusa.com/leftist-voter-rights-group-tries-to-suppress-gop-mail-in-voting/
Was it ever any doubt that all this Democrat concern about voter rights was just a shallow, self-dealing power play?
Makes you think why they are so opposed to any sort of election security reforms...
Quoting a candidate's past statements accurately is election interference? Any negative ad might also be election interference, by that standard. But Trump is well known for bringing frivolous lawsuits about election matters.
For those who are curious but disinclined to search for it,
why should I enable your laziness?it's in this article.Funny how the minute something Trump said in the past becomes inconvenient for the present, it gets vanished down the memory hole. Notice how claims it happened, even video footage of it happening, get denounced as leftist deception. Must be Goldstein’s work.
Is this "voter's rights" group encouraging voting or discouraging voting?
This precedent makes it a lot more difficult to convince a judge that the 1968 Gun Control Act is cruel and unusual punishment in violation of the 8th Amemdment.
I guess. In the sense that having a tummy ache could make it a lot more difficult to swallow the sun.
Actually, not logically so.
Felon disenfranchisement laws are state laws, you notice.
The problem with the 1968 gun control act's disarming of felons isn't that it disarms felons, it's that it's a federal law disarming felons. It pretends to be an exercise of the commerce power, but in reality is a classic exercise of the general police power that the federal government deliberately was NOT delegated by the Constitution.
If the 14th Amendment contains a comprehensive right to vote, how can the 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th be explained? Why were they added to the constitution?
The existence of multiple specific constitutional amendments conferring multiple specific limited extensions of the franchise is strong evidence that the 14th Amendment has never been thought to confer such an extension all by itself.
How can the 5th Circuit panel’s reasoning be reconciled with, for example, the fact that children and non-citizens and non-residents are not allowed to vote? How can it be reconciled with the 14th Amendment’s specific limitation of the franchise to men? Does it even make sense to suggest that those not allowed to vote are somehow being “punished?” What does punishment have to do with it? Are 34 year olds “punished” by not being allowed to be President?
Failing to meet a franchise qualification is simply a status. Franchise qualifications have nothing to do with punishment.
How can the 5th Circuit panel’s reasoning
They denied the challenge. Do you mean the dissent?
I'm curious: Has the Fifth Circuit ever had occasion to rule on the subject of post-sentence restrictions on convicted sex offenders? There seems to be a parallel with disenfranchisement of felons here: in both cases, one's served one's sentence, but is denied, often for one's entire remaining life, some of the most important rights and privileges enjoyed by other citizens. Indeed, notwithstanding slogans about the importance of voting, the restrictions on sex offenders seem much heavier: I suspect that most of us would give up the right to vote, rather than the right to live within 1000 feet of a school, church, synagogue, day-care center, or park.
"Every inhabitant of this state, except idiots..."
Finally, a sensible restriction...
But in Mississipi who's to judge?
Maybe no one's eligible to vote?
Of course, all this is just the perpetuation of Jim Crow and the Southern Strategy. Make the nigger poor enough and desperate enough. Then lock the nigger away. Then make sure the nigger doesn't vote. Boom...an all-white hegemony. But I'm sure all those things are just coincidental
Is it bad for you to utters the word, or only bad when a right-wing clinger utters it?