The Volokh Conspiracy
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Constitutional Theory and the Meaning of "Invasion"
Leading constitutional law scholars Larry Solum and Mark Tushnet opine on how we might answer this question.

Some conservatives have argued that illegal migration and drug smuggling across the southern border qualify as "invasion" under the Constitution. This issue is currently being litigated in two cases before the US Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. Two leading constitutional theorists - Larry Solum (University of Virginia) and Mark Tushnet (Harvard) - have recently written posts outlining how constitutional theory could be used to address the meaning of "invasion." Here's an excerpt from Tushnet's post:
What are we to make of the term "invasion," which occurs three times in the Constitution (in the habeas-suspension clause, in the Compact Clause [as "actually invaded"], and in Article IV)? The term has its place in contemporary conservative discourse, which characterizes what's happening at the US southern border as an invasion. One can imagine a Trump administration suspending habeas in connection with those who cross the border without authorization. Conservatives might assert that Article IV places a duty on the United States to protect states against invasions (one of which is occurring) and that the President's failure to do so provides the basis for impeaching him for failing to take care that the laws be faithfully executed. (At least one impeachment resolution invokes this theory.)
Is this an example of (a) impermissible linguistic drift or (b) permissible specification of vague constitutional terms within the bounds of reasonable interpretive flexibility? I did some quick and dirty research (this is a blog post, after all), and came up with this. The 1785 edition of Samuel Johnson's dictionary defines "invasion" as "a hostile entrance upon the rights or possessions of another," and provides four illustrations, of which two involve invasions by organized military forces of hostile nations (and the other two of which seem to me metaphorical). Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary's first definition is: "a hostile entrance into the possessions of another; particularly, the entrance of a hostile army into a country for the purpose of conquest or plunder, or the attack of a military force. The north of England and south of Scotland were for centuries subject to invasion each from the other. The invasion of England by William the Norman was in 1066."
My real puzzle isn't about "the" answer to the question posed in the preceding paragraph. (About 15 years ago I suggested, in passing, that the September 11 attacks could plausibly be characterized as an invasion for purposes of habeas suspension, thus assuming that organized attacks by a hostile non-state actor could count as an invasion. What about the ISIS-influenced attack by a single individual at Fort Hood years later?) The puzzle is about how to think about figuring out the answer.
I actually don't think the issue here is particularly difficult. Both at the time of the Founding and today, "invasion" usually means an organized armed attack, but also has secondary meanings, many of which are more metaphorical. Which one is relevant in a given case depends on the situation.
The use of "invasion" in the Constitution is an example of how the meaning of a potentially ambiguous word becomes clear in context. In other situations, "invasion" can sometimes mean a mere intrusion on rights (e.g. - "invasion of privacy"), or even just a metaphorical conflict, like the 1960s "British Invasion" of UK rock bands coming to perform in the US.
In the context of giving states the right to "engage in war" in response (which the Constitution authorizes a state to do in the event it is "actually invaded"), suspending the writ of habeas corpus (which the federal government can do if there is an "invasion"), and other relevant features of the Constitution, it is limited to organized armed attacks. Founding-era evidence supports this position. For more detail see my Lawfare article on this subject, and the amicus brief I filed in one of the Fifth Circuit cases on behalf of the Cato Institute and myself.
Solum's post is more extensive and detailed, and cannot easily be summarized. Anyone interested in this topic should read the whole thing! Here, I will only note that Solum emphasizes that, from an originalist perspective, "we would not want to focus solely on the word 'invasion.' Instead, we would aim to determine the meaning of whole clauses and articles in the context."
I agree completely! It is the context, particularly the wording of the clauses where the word appears, that ultimately determines the meaning of "invasion" in the Constitution. And the context makes clear that it is limited to organized armed attacks, and does not cover illegal migration, drug smuggling, and the like.
I think this context is also decisive from the standpoint of living constitutionalism. No plausible living constitutionalist theory would allow states to start a war over illegal migration or drug smuggling, without the authorization of the federal government. Nor would it give the federal government a blank check to suspend the writ of habeas corpus any time such things happen. As noted in my article and amicus brief, the latter power would not be limited to detaining undocumented migrants, but would cover US citizens and legal residents, as well.
I am planning to write an academic article on the meaning of "invasion," where I will address these issues in greater detail.
UPDATE: I initially neglected to include a link to Larry Solum's post. That error has now been corrected.
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The notion of 5th generation warfare needs to be overlaid on this topic.
Much of our Southern Border crises are being orchestrated by organizations or nations that are hostile to our sovereignty, such as China, the UN, Israel, and the Democrat Party/Washington DC bureaucrat class.
It's not organic. It's orchestrated, and intentional.
Obviously not.
You're ignorance of the facts doesn't mean they aren't facts.
A gratuitous assertion can be just as gratuitously refuted. In other words, you're full of Shit.
Frank
Yes, it is an invasion. Not an armed invasion, but an invasion with drastic consequences, and calling for a drastic response.
These are your fans, defenders, and target audience, Volokh Conspirators, and the reason UCLA no longer inflicts Mr. Volokh on its law students. Which Conspirator will be the next to depart a mainstream campus?
Doesn't it bother you that everyone thinks you're an insufferable asshole?
And I'm not talking about the Reason commentariat, but everyone in your life.
It's good that the Volokh Conspiracy -- much like a Ron Paul rally of yesteryear -- provides for disaffected, often autistic, antisocial, bigoted right-wingers a respite from the modern world they disdain (and which disdains them), a place at which the culture war's rejects can congregate and try to feel normal for a brief moment in a society (or, in the case of a right-wing law professor, the modern mainstream of legal academia) that rejects them and their stale, ugly right-wing thinking.
Now try to be nicer, clingers, or your betters may not continue to be so magnanimous toward the losers of the culture war.
you can't even spell, "Revolting" it's "Bettors"
Volock actually got PROMOTED -- although if Kirkland had an IQ above 12, he'd be watching the suit against Northwestern Law.
Promoted . . . out of the classroom and into a partisan mouthpiece shop that provides a platform for the likes of Scott Atlas, Kiron Skinner, Christopher Ruddy, Victor Davis Hanson, and Dinesh D''Souza?
In any event, the important point is that he will no longer be inflicting racial slurs on law students who deserve better. Students don't go to UCLA for a stream of bigotry and stale, ugly right-wing thinking -- they go to Regent, Brigham Young, Liberty, Notre Dame, Hillsdale, Grove City, Ave Maria, Wheaton, Franciscan, Ouachita Baptist, and Federalist Society meetings for that.
Couldn’t make this shit up if you tried.
I left Auburn in 1984, been back for a few sports events, haven’t been back to my Med School since Grad-jew-ma-cation day, did Jackie go back to Dealey Plaza? Coretta go back to the Lorraine Motel? Med School keeps hitting me up for money, I actually sent them a check for .02$ years ago, that they didn’t cash, it’s a Pubic Screw-el fur Hey-Zeus’s sake, maybe cut back on the lap dances for the CFO…
Frank
You're of course correct that it's racist to be bothered that non-citizens are violating are crossing our border at locations other than official ports of entry. Since we don't care about federal authorities upholding the rule of law any more, we should just drop the prosecution of all those Jan6 rioters. It's perfectly fine to break the law if you've got a good reason!
It's not an invasion, and the "consequences" are positive: a strong, growing economy.
It's not a mililtary invasion. However, mass migrations are sometimes described as invasions. There was one such pre-written history in Europe, where in one dirt layer is one culture, and in a higher dirt layer of about 100 years later, another.
Clearly the Constitution speaks of the military type. The migration type is fine...if the base culture of freedom remains the same. Which also includes economic freedom, not needing to get on bended knee to get permission to start business, with attendant kickbacks. This is what they are fleeing, and it would be bizarre, and tragic indeed, if they voted for people increasing economic burden in a putrid aping of corruption and kickbacks.
This is why I recommend abandoning Trump (in addition to us not needing fascist tanks rolling thru Europe). It's little benefit to immigrants to pull up to a stop here, only to be presented with the same corruption they fled.
These "shitty countries" are shitty i.e. 3rd world because they are dictatorship kleptocracies, or nominal democracies lousy with corruption (larger examples: Mexico, Brazil, India).
Our best bet, and best bet for humanity, not just the US, is for southern governors, who make inroads with Latinos, to keep pounding the message, "Come here, and live free from dictatorship and corruption, and make a better life for yourselves."
In an economically free society, the more, the better.
A growing total, and a shrinking average; Both can happen at the same time. The size of the economy grows simply on account of involving more people, but people who are, on average, poorer.
But the elite benefit from driving down the cost of unskilled labor, so it's all good from their perspective, it's only the masses who suffer.
Both are not in fact happening, though. Moreover, even if they were, that doesn't mean it's a problem; a "shrinking average" does not mean that existing residents' income/wealth/whatever is shrinking. Adding a poor person may drag down the average while making all people — prior residents and the new one — better off.
They do not.
Illegal immigration suppresses wages. Who suffers from that and who gains from that?
Not Neosporin (suffers). Just means his landscaper might be cheaper (gains).
No, it doesn't. Borjas is pretty much the only one who says that, and his results have been largely undermined.
lol wow, are you ignorant or are you a liar?
“Evidence for negative effects of such competition ranged from modest to significant, according to the experts who testified, but even those experts who viewed the effects as modest overall found significant effects in occupations such as meatpacking and construction.”
https://www.usccr.gov/files/pubs/docs/IllegImmig_10-14-10_430pm.pdf
Did you hear that guys? Millions of illegals willing to work for pennies on the dollar doesn’t negatively impact wages!
Illegal immigrants do not work for "pennies," and since they're doing jobs that Americans won't do, they're not suppressing wages for those jobs.
So what jobs are the ones Americans won't do? Last time I checked the Bureau of Labor had 255 job categories and Americans were the majority in 251 of them. Admittedly this was about five years ago so things might have changed slightly since then.
It is also estimated that there only about 2.4 million farm labor jobs. So even assuming that every one of those jobs needed to be filled by an illegal alien the Biden Maladministration has let in over three times that in the last 3 1/2 years. Btw most of the farm jobs in the upper Midwest are filled with American citizens.
Americans are more than willing to do any job if treated fairly and given adequate compensation. My father and brother did drywall for a living as did several uncles, as a kid I earned money by picking strawberries.
Outside of the states flooded with illegal aliens jobs of all kinds are done overwhelmingly by American citizens so don't give me the bull that there are jobs Americans won't do.
Israeli citizen, David, says Americans won't work construction.
Pretty weird thing to say.
"So what jobs are the ones Americans won’t do?"
Committing hate crimes against Jussie Smollett?
A growing total, and a shrinking average; Both can happen at the same time. The size of the economy grows simply on account of involving more people, but people who are, on average, poorer.
Poor argument, Brett. Think through your example again.The average does not tell the whole story.
What if the reason the average drops is because the new arrivals are at the low end of the income scale? Then current residents are not damaged, and may even be helped, by the immigrants.
Suppose we have 100 people with average income of $100K, and 10 more come in and start earning $25K. Then the total goes up and the average goes down. So what? Who has been hurt?
And what if, as a consequence, the original inhabitants start making $105K. Then everyone benefits, even though per capita income dropped from $100K to $97,727.
Well, one way to look at that would be the median household income, as opposed to the mean household income. The "50%" mark
In your analogy, the median household income would rise from $100,000 to $105,000* (this assumes every original resident is making the average household income, for simplicity).
We have that information. It's below.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/200838/median-household-income-in-the-united-states/
That's even stupider, Armchair. The newcomers will pull the median down as well.
Imagine the original 100 don't all make the same. The top 45% make 150k, the middle 10% make 100k, and the bottom 45% make 50k.
Average: 100k
Median: 100k
Now 10 more people come in making 25k, and everyone else make 5k more.
Average: $97,727
Median: 55k
Yet everyone is doing better than they were before!
Hasn't your side complained that real wages haven't kept up with inflation for over 50 years now? But now you're also claiming that importing another 50-100 million immigrants won't do anything to those wages and everyone will be wealthier?
Maybe the cause of those suppressed wages can be found in the mirror.
Randal,
That's a dishonest argument. I provided a simplified example, but you've needed to skew the income distributions beyond anything that exists in reality.
Reality has a range of incomes (see below), not a bimodal distribution where 45% of the population is poor and 45% is rich.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distribution-of-household-income-in-the-us/
How stupid are you? The less artificial the example, the more my argument applies. I had to make your "simplified example" more realistic in order to show how disingenuous it was. The more realistic you go, the wronger you are.
You really are a dumbshit. Get out of your armchair and get a job.
The way to look at it is the effect on the income of those who were already here.
And the median income does that, so long as the number of new, (poor), immigrants doesn't exceed the number of current residents.
No. It doesn't.
Well, look in the bright side. Many of the immigrants are fairly young, so we’re probably, on average, younger.
And you know how those Latin folks are. So we’re probably having more sex on average as well.
Many of the immigrants are fairly young, so we’re probably, on average, younger.
Which means they are boosting Social Security, contrary to Trump's claims that they "are being put on Social Security."
Especially since the illegals don't get to collect social security.
But that could also weaken political support for social security.
They get EITC instead. A "refundable" tax credit. They are getting their cash now.
Illegal immigrants cannot get the EITC.
yeah, for May-He-Co, getting rid of 20 milllion peons.
Nothing more expensive than "cheap" labor.
You literally supported Cubans invading America…and you gave them preferential treatment once in America!?! We let Cubans set the course of our nation for the first quarter of this century.
Was an enemy of our nation arranging, funding, and otherwise facilitating the Cuban refugees?
Cuba is our enemy…but the Soviet Union did the Mariel Boatlift.
During the Mariel boat lift, Cuba notoriously emptied their prisons. So, yeah, at times.
That should be classified the same as today’s invasion.
They did not, in fact, do any such thing. A small percentage of the boatlift were criminals, and most of them were political criminals, not actual ones.
There are many ways this is delusional, but to take just one, the notion of Israel allying with the UN is just Loony Tunes.
Israeli NGOs are the dominant and UN are the two groups primarily responsible for the brown invasion of Western Civilization.
None of these countriies' peoples, on their own, voted to make Whites a minority.
The vast majority of those “browns” you despise would and perhaps will make far better Americans than those fifth generation trustafarians molesting our formally elite universities.
I like how you shit on liberals and affirmative action at the same time. Nice touch.
Thanks. And while it is highly unlikely Jesus had blond hair, it is certain he did not have blonde hair.
” In his letter Lentulus describes the condemned man named Jesus of Nazareth as having: a noble and lively face, with fair and slightly wavy hair; black and strongly curving eyebrows, intense penetrating blue eyes and an expression of wondrous grace. His nose is rather long. His beard is almost blonde, although not very long. His hair is quite long, and has never seen a pair of scissors…..His neck is slightly inclined, so that he never appears to be bitter or arrogant. His tanned face is the color of ripe corn and well proportioned. It gives the impression of gravity and wisdom, sweetness and good, and is completely lacking in any sign of anger.”
I'll just point out to readers that the letter Blondie refers to is widely considered a fraud, likely written in the 15th Century.
What's that mobile app called that you people have on your phones to alert you to comments like this?
Poor fake Lentulus doesn’t know the difference between blond and blonde either.
WTF is an "Israeli NGO"?
A Jew one with support from their government.
It should be obvious from the choice of terms. Language isn't hard, David... for most functioning adults, that is.
Professors Bernstein and Blackman and former professor Volokh will issue a pass to that commenter with respect to the antisemitism, as has become customary. They strive to find antisemitism they can ascribe to liberals and libertarians -- confecting it if necessary, to produce the only kind of bigotry that bothers them -- but are tellingly silent with respect to conservative antisemitism.
#Partisan
#Hacks
Can you explain what's antisemitic about the observation?
Jew is not an adjective, except among bigots.
Oh, I see. It's more of your politically correct mind control language prisons that I do not subscribe to.
If language isn't hard, then why did you not answer the question? You don't even know that Jew is a noun and Jewish is the adjective, nor that there aren't organizations like the ones you describe.
Are you saying none of those Jew NGO’s that are facilitating the migrant horde invasions of Western Civilization are supported by the Israeli government?
“Jew*sh”, historically speaking, is a vile slur used to denigrate people as greedy hook-nosed villains, subhuman child sacrificers, blood drinkers, cultural underminers and assorted hoaxsters.
I use “Jew” out of respect and deference to the modern day Canaanites who appropriated the ancient and original Judean identity so as to not smear them with the baggage that comes with the loaded term “Jew*sh”.
Once again, there's no such thing as a "Jew NGO." And there are no "horde invasions of Western Civilization." And so, none of these imaginary things that are not happening are supported by the Israeli government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_refugee_aid_organizations
Weird.
https://www.un.org/en/academic-impact/europe-and-refugee-crisis-challenge-our-civilization
Wow, even weirder!
Israeli citizen David Nieporent says these things don't exist nor are they even happening!
You surely earned your two shekels today!
Warning: Engaging with JHBHBE leaves the smell of a SS fart.
How Nazi of me to refute the Jew lies with facts and shit! It’s like the Shoah all over again with its death roller coasters, bear and eagle fights and killer electric dance floors!
Seems to be hard for you.
"the UN, Israel, and the Democrat Party/Washington DC bureaucrat class"
None of these things are inherently hostile to US sovereignty:
1. The UN is based *in* the USA - no USA = UN having to move;
2. Israel's biggest ally is ahem...the USA;
3. Democrats erm...want to win elections in the USA. Hard to picture how they can do that if there is no USA.
4. "Washington bureaucrats" are paid by the Federal Government - no USA = being jobless.
You’re presuming their goal is anarchy and not globalism.
Further, if you went through and made a list of some of the worst espionage conducted against the US and categorized them by identity, which bucket do you think would have the most counts?
Jews or some other one?
Agreed. Biden let in over 10,000,000 illegal immigrants. Think Trojan Horse. We have "normalized" invasions to now include non-armed movements of millions of people from one or more countries into another. If this doesn't violate the American Constitution, then why do we even have national borders? If a President allows this, why even have a Commander in Chief?
It's hard to take Larry Solum seriously when he doesn't even know how to spell 'border'. Perhaps he has a good editor for his published materials.
The southern border, particularly in Arizona and New Mexico has privately owned ranches that are being damaged and destroyed (particularly water sources and infrastructure) and robbed from, clearly "a hostile entrance upon the rights or possessions of another,". Likewise, the presence of these invaders taxes state and federal resources, stealing from those taxpayers.
By that standard, half-educated right-wing bigots are invading modern American communities and our strongest schools. How should those hayseeds be put down before they diminish our best research and teaching institutions, our best cultural institutions, and our strongest, educated, productive, reasoning communities?
(If the superstitious knuckledraggers stay where they belong -- West Virginia, Ouachita Baptist, country music, Idaho, Brigham Young, 'rasslin, Liberty, car racing, Regent, Southern Baptist congregations, Hillsdale, Wyoming, Wheaton, South Carolina, etc. -- there would be no invasion and no cause to remove them forcibly from civilized, modern American society.)
Hillsdale students are looting and wrecking ranches in Arizona? Half-educated?
When I get a begging letter from my Alma Mater (undergrad, MBA and medical school) UCLA, I make a donation to Hillsdale and send the receipt to UCLA.
Try again
But I applaud your advocacy for separating the states. Personally, I'll split my time between the Northern Redoubt (Montana for me, although I do own a house in Wyoming as well) and the Conch Republic (Florida - no house, but a boat I can live aboard).
I have a simpler solution --- shoot to kill.
I'd be dead had I employed it, but so too would have been some governmental bureaucrats. A net gain....
You want to kill people for trying to cross the border illegally?
You're a psychopath.
All you do is lie and yell about killing anyone you don't like.
If the incoming persons intend to settle the newly, and illegally, entered land and not return their place of origin...
And if they are supported by organized entities some of which are foreign governments ...
What do you call that?
I call it treason, myself
Enjoy the time you and your right-wing bigotry have left in modern America before being replaced by better people and better ideas in the glorious American culture war, clinger.
When it's actually go time, your cities are going to be turned into quiet neighborhoods for 1,000 years, hicklib.
All-talk wingnuts are among my favorite culture war casualties . . . and the target audience (and operators) of a white, male, faux libertarian blog with a vanishingly thin academic veneer.
The data suggest the only culture war casualties are the treasuries of Blue State 3rd World Shitholes and the profits of woke corporations.
But hey, I'm an empiricist and not an ideologue, so what do I know?!?
Lol, yeah, ask Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber about that.
Drug-addled leftists are my favorite culture war casualties.
again with the "Replacement" that's supposedly not happening, and for the gazillionith time, Revolting, It's "Bettors" and "Klingers",
Funny how the only "Replacement" currently in the news is Parkinsonian Joe, by Common-Law Willie-Brown-Harris, which I would love, Common-Law has a cackle that even makes Hillary Rodman wince, and what's she hiding in those Pants Suits? I'm thinking the "Second Gentleman's" Cock
Frank
When Kirkland erupts inside the rears of little boys, do you think he wears protection?
Revolting's so old even his Spermatozoa are infertile
If the incoming persons intend to settle the newly, and illegally, entered land and not return their place of origin... What do you call that?
Um... immigration?
immigration: the process in which people come to live in a different country
immigration: the process in which people LEGALLY come to live in a different country.
Now it is correct.
That is not in fact the definition of immigration.
If the incoming persons intend to settle the newly, and illegally, entered land and not return their place of origin…
WTF are you talking about? They're not stealing land and, in fact, it will likely be a while before they can afford to buy some.
Suddenly some agricultural worker who rents a cheap apartment is equivalent to a Mongol invader. You're nuts.
The only non-military use of the word "invasion" is when referring to vermin or insects. Which is really what is being implied here.
No, not really. The "British Invasion", as referenced in the post, had nothing to do with insects. Even if it did involve the Beatles.
But in that case it was intended as a joke.
Invasion of privacy?
The post Civil War South suffered from an invasion of northern "carpet baggers".
Oh, rubbish. The word “invasion“ is broad enough to encompass today’s massive southern border immigration, though manifestly not in the constitutional sense, but any pejorative implications are optional.
I don't think I've ever heard of "an invasion" standing alone as referring to anything other than a military invasion of another country.
All the other uses are qualified. Home invasion. Invasion of privacy. Invasion of the body snatchers. Invasion of africanized honey bees. Invasion of the pelvic sidewall.
The term is used because something that should be secure is breached. The things you listed aren't qualifications, they're an application of a universally understood word, although your side is notorious for trying to redefine such things to suit your political purpose.
Oh please. Everyone knows what an invasion is. If someone told you “We’re under invasion!” you’re not going to think it’s from an aggressive fungus.
Oh, "everyone knows"? Trying a question -begging appeal to popularity now that your dialectic was neutered? Maybe if you didn't try such lame deflections it would be a little more difficult.
I mean, I certainly have no problem with your personal home being invaded, so I'll keep my fingers crossed that it happens since you think such an event is just a "qualification" and not anything legitimate. Let us know how it turns out
That reponse is almost too stupid to reply to. Let me just say that I never said or suggested that qualified invasions were “illegitimate.”
Home invasion?
Hyperbole and alternate facts are the currency of the new seditious right. So, yeah, invasion. Why not
I saw a documentary on Louisiana crawfish farming today. The good ol' boy running the farm said to the documentarian that all his labor was Mexicans. Asked why he didn't hire local he said all the availables were in drug rehab. I suppose it takes a bit of gumption for a redneck farmer to admit that the whites are all fucked up and the Mexicans are actually pulling the weight
Why are you conflating illegals with Mexicans? Is that what you think when you see someone whose Hispanic looking? That they're an illegal Mexican?
There more to it than this -- what he is saying is that no one local is willing to work for what he is willing to pay them -- AND that he wouldn't have been willing to do so either.
If he were willing to pay -- adjusted for inflation -- what workers were paid circa 1970, he'd have all the locals he wanted.
I knew a man like that who thought he was doing me a favor by offering me $100/day for hard labor. I knew it would be sun-up to sun-down, 14+ hour days, and that'd be $7.14/hour straight time, less than minimum wage and WAY less when you figured that six of those hours were supposed to be paid at time and a half.
Ed obviously knows more about Louisiana labor markets than the crawfish farmer who lives in LA and runs a crawfish business.
I apologize for accusing you of "Stolen Valor" you should be charged for theft for stealing some poor Mongoloid's Brain, there's another demographic group in Louisiana that has umm, "Ish-yews" with Substances, it's why Parkinsonian Joe wrote the 1994 Crime Bill back when he was just Plagiarism Joe. Funny how you progressives suddenly don't give a fuck about minimal wage, worker's comp, safe work conditions when it's a bunch of wetbacks schlobbing your knob.
Frank
Like a good (and like essentially every) conservative originalist, Prof. Solum here determines that originalism provides a path toward the right-wing preference.
In that regard, Prof. Solum exhibits a customary understanding of originalism.
Somin thinks a bunch of yokels breaking furniture and windows in the Capitol is an insurrection. But an invasion MUST have tanks!
Why were these yokels breaking furniture and windows?
"They got away with it and the powers that be did nothing. Your turn!"
This is the unspoken truth. Both sides are so tied up in apologitics for their own side it sickens me.
Because they were FBI agitators and entrappers.
The FBI told them to.
He probably doesn't think THESE yokels were mounting an insurrection. They're hostile and mostly non-citizens, that means they can't be in the wrong.
1) What is your basis for claiming that any of them are non-citizens?
2) They're vandals. They were not trying to overthrow the government, so they were not mounting an insurrection. (Except against anti-littering laws, I guess.)
What determines whether something is an invasion (or insurrection) is not the tools used. It's the objective of the people involved.
The people of the Reconquista Movement, are they invading or just immigrating?
Neither, because there's no such movement.
Weird.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista_(Mexico)
Israeli citizen David Nieporent says Reconquista doesn’t exist!
Next I’m sure he’ll say wikipedia doesn’t exist either. I don’t know what’s making the IDF look worse, you or the thousands of dead Palestinian babies and children.
So, like I said, there's no "Reconquista movement."
Also, not that it matters, but not only am I not Israeli, but I'm more American than you are, NaziTrollBoy.
Do I need to send you that article in Hebrew?
By now you should have figured out that anything inconvenient to Nieporent is nonexistent.
LOL, the whole Aztlan/La Raza Unida movements of the last 50-plus years would certainly be surprised at this assertion.
You're right as it shows the nonsense of Somin's arguments in most cases.
ILYA SOMIN provides a logical analysis of terms. Some conservatives on a "sometimes libertarian" blog disagree.
The federal government has the power to regulate immigration, commerce among the nations, and border control.
Perhaps, if sanity reigns in November, there will be a chance for Biden et. al. to negotiate a border bill & it won’t be blocked as a Trump election measure.
Maybe, Texas voters can see that & not playing war games on the border is the appropriate path.
This blog is "libertarian" solely in the neurodivergent mind of a disaffected right-winger.
Maybe Trump will be able to do Operation Wetback II.
Forget IDs, speak with an accent, you're on a C-5, destination unknown.
Psychopath.
I hope you don't own a gun.
Liberals love America being invaded by third worlders almost as much as they love a man's rear being invaded by an HIV infected ramrod.
Oh look, the sexually-repressed individual who can’t tell the difference between VC and pr0nhub has made a new account to post his wish-fulfillment fantasies from.
In which a collaborator assures us nothing is amiss.
I'm some what stonkered by somebody who suggests that Trump, (Or any President!) might suspend habeas corpus in response to mass border crossings on the basis of it being an invasion, and thinks the problem there is the definition of "invasion".
It's an Article 1 power, belonging to Congress, not the executive branch! (Yes, Lincoln did it. Lincoln did so many things that were unconstitutional that's practically additional evidence of unconstitutionality!)
But, suppose for a moment that control of Congress changes hands this November, and early next year Congress, not Trump, declares illegal border crossings an invasion. Do you really think the judiciary is going to say, "No can do, WE decide when there's an invasion, not you."?
Sure, you might get a few lower court rulings to that effect, and maybe even a couple votes on the Supreme court, but in the end, that argument is going to be a total loser, and you know it.
Do you really think the judiciary is going to say, “No can do, WE decide when there’s an invasion, not you.”?
But that won’t be the question. There’s no such thing, legally, as “declaring an invasion.” There either is one or there isn’t. What there is is “suspending habeas corpus,” which is taking away a power of the courts. They instinctively don't like that.
Such a case would arise in the context of a habeas corpus petition. Think like the Guantanamo cases. I can very easily see SCOTUS ruling that habeas was not validly suspended in a case like that.
Art. I, sec. 9 says habeas can be suspended in certain situations. The situations are legal concepts but as with determining a republican form of government will largely be a political question.
(See, e.g., Scalia's dissent in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld:
"But whether the attacks of September 11, 2001, constitute an “invasion,” and whether those attacks still justify suspension several years later, are questions for Congress rather than this Court.")
Back in the 1790s, a law was passed authorizing the POTUS to call up the militia when normal court procedures were not enough. A judicial finding had to be sought that this was true. So, it is possible the courts can be involved even there.
President Lincoln, by the way, not only was reacting to a time when Congress was out of session, but as Steve Vladeck argued a while back, there was a law in place authorizing the president to address a rebellion. There very well might have been statutory authorization for suspending habeas.
If Trump wins, it is far from impossible that some border bill could have some provision that could be interpreted that way.
"There very well might have been statutory authorization for suspending habeas."
He didn't cite such authority.
Lincoln’s statement to Congress in part appealed to a legal opinion by his attorney general (Reverdy Johnson, who was an attorney for John Sandford in the Dred Scott case & later opposed usage of military tribunals in the Lincoln Assassination Trials helped & accepted Lincoln’s power to suspend in the given situation).
The legal memorandum broadly appealed to the militia acts to defend Lincoln’s response to the rebellion. Vladeck goes into more detail. The bottom line should be if he had the power, not if he did not do a good enough job saying why he did.
"There’s no such thing, legally, as “declaring an invasion.” There either is one or there isn’t."
That is a profoundly silly thing to say.
My point is that the courts might dispute Congress deciding that an invasion required suspending habeas, (And rightfully so, if the courts were in operation!) but they're not going to dispute Congress deciding there's an invasion.
In contrast to the hypothetical above, where the real problem isn't, as I say, whether or not there's an invasion, but instead the the President is presuming to exercise an Article 1 power.
My point is that the courts might dispute Congress deciding that an invasion required suspending habeas, but they’re not going to dispute Congress deciding there’s an invasion.
On what grounds would they dispute the suspension of habeas, other than because there’s actually no invasion happening?
Imagine Congress said, like, “This ongoing invasion of Russian… Thistle requires the suspension of habeas corpus!” The courts would not defer to that determination.
"The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it."
All they would have to do is rule that the public safety didn't require it.
Public safety is exactly the sort of policy question that should be left to Congress! Whether or not an invasion is happening is very much a factfinding question that's well-suited to a adjudication by a court.
Whether or not people are entering is fact finding. Whether or not an invasion is happening is not fact finding, it's more like policy preference finding.
You've just given the canonical defense of Living Constitutionalism. Congratulations! You're a lefty now.
The other question you have to answer is… why the fuck would Congress suspend habeas corpus rather than simply pass an immigrstion bill already?
It's not that Lincoln did it but that Eisenhower did it.
Operation Wetback.
Obviously one illegal immigrant is not an invasion.
On the other hand, would anyone seriously suggest that at the time of the founding several hundred thousand unorganized and mostly unarmed refugees from the Aztecs had started landing boats in Georgia that the state of Georgia would have been required to rely on Washington to respond rather than initiating it's own military response?
The fundamental problem here is that, while it IS an "invasion", it's an invasion the federal government wants. They can't come out and say so, of course, because the invasion is unpopular with the citizenry, actually SAYING that you want it is electoral poison almost everywhere.
But they want it. Stopping it would be almost trivially easy if Congress weren't deliberately underfunding immigration law enforcement.
It's not just a matter of underfunding law enforcement. It's also about not imposing severe penalties on illegal entry and hiring of illegals. Detaining "asylum" migrants until their hearings, which would be within 30 days, would also do the trick.
If you make something painful, people stop doing it.
"Detaining “asylum” migrants until their hearings, which would be within 30 days, would also do the trick."
We could have that under present law, if it weren't for the fact that Congress won't provide enough funding to conduct as many hearings as are needed, so that the backlog is perpetually growing.
Congress also doesn't provide enough funding to detain all those people in the first place.
If the Administration has money to fly them in, they have money to bus them out.
...and of course money to fund the midnight flights to cities all over the US.
It doesn't cost very much if you do it properly, which is throwing them into one huge room like cattle.
Right. And my point is that it's deliberate. They don't want our immigration laws enforced, but actually coming out and saying so would be political suicide given public opinion. So they deliberately underfund the system in order that even a President like Trump who doesn't share their desire for mass illegal immigration will lack the resources to secure the border.
There are a number of issues on which the revealed preferences of members of Congress diverge from public opinion, but I think none more than immigration.
Yet another conspiracy theory from Brett.
it’s an invasion the federal government wants.
You have this notion that the "federal government" is, at bottom, a monolithic organization, with a common set of ends, that encompasses Republicans, Democrats, liberals, conservatives, etc. Bernie Sanders is part of the plot, as is Jim Jordan, as are Brett Kavanaugh and Kamala Harris.
That's bonkers. Completely batshit bonkers. How many common purposes would these people share?
In CA there is a proposed bill to give illegals free healthcare care and even 20% down-payments on home purchases. Offers not extended to citizens.
Would you say the California government wants illegals or does not want illegals?
That is, of course, 1,000% false. The proposals are to allow illegal immigrants to participate in already existing state programs available to citizens.
You seem to be right about that. Not that the actual bill is much better than JHBHBE's fictional version, since the only service illegal immigrants SHOULD be receiving from government is a swift ejection from the country.
Why don't stores sell beer to minors anymore?
SHUTTING DOWN a business for 10-30 days would ensure they didn't hire illegals.
They do.
What the fuck planet do you live on? (Like the Late Great Darryl “Chocolate Thunder” Dawkins, I’m a native of “Love-Tron”)
I got carded in 1978 so I’d stand in the shadows of the Alabama ABC stores like “Toad” in “Amurican Graffiti” asking slack jawed Rubes if they would buy me a fifth of Jim Beam, Jeez, now I sound like Rev. Revolting (“No! not Wine!!) and I still get carded in various states where they scan your Driver’s License instead of just looking at me and seeing an old Bald Fuck (Imagine Larry David with shorter hair, no glasses, longer nose)
Frank
The original understanding was that states had broad power over immigration. So, a Supreme Court opinion in the 1830s allowed states to pass laws to keep paupers and the diseased from entering the state. States were also allowed to block black people from entering. It was not an “invasion” for constitutional purposes. That wasn’t necessary for the states to address the situation.
The federal government has overall supreme power over immigration. New York didn’t have the power to say “We don’t want your poor and huddled masses” if the federal government authorized it. If the feds wanted those Aztecs to enter or to allow Cherokees to travel west with the likelihood some would settle in western states, the states could not block them.
"would anyone seriously suggest that at the time of the founding several hundred thousand unorganized and mostly unarmed refugees from the Aztecs"
At the time of the founding, there were zero immigration restrictions, we had open boarders. The first restrictions on immigration weren't passed until after the Civil War.
Not true. For example, Indian tribes attempting to immigrate to the US from the West were pushed out.
I can guarantee to you that if a bunch of Mexican and Central American Indians in numbers large enough to outnumber the white inhabitants had started washing up in Georgia that the Georgia militia would have dealt with the matter without waiting for Washington.
To me the habeas point is dispositive. It really only makes sense to allow suspension of habeas if there is something akin to actual warfare. Thus, "invasion" has to have the military meaning.
I was having a discussion with someone about the Treason clause on Twitter. This guy advanced an argument- with some originalist sources- that basically any attack on a federal facility by 2 or more people acting in any sort of concert is "levying war on the United States" and thus treason. And TBC, he did have some originalist support and some cases that define it in those terms. But still, it just can't be right. A bunch of people storming a courthouse to prevent a trial is disgusting. It's criminal. But it makes zero sense to call it "treason". Thus, "levying war" has to have its military meaning; that's the only way the treason clause doesn't cover a bunch of stuff it clearly shouldn't cover.
And it is the same here. An "invasion" has to mean something where it would make sense to suspend habeas.
Its been reported that China, as a state actor, is behind much of the fentynal being smuggled across the border,
If a group of military aged Chinese nationals are caught bringing in fentanyl across the border, what is that called?
Drug smuggling. Duh.
"Military aged" is just the latest idiot talking point that the MAGA left came up with.
If they were uniformed, what's that called?
>“Military aged” is just the latest idiot talking point that the MAGA left came up with.
Or an observation. You know, many humans prefer to draw conclusions from things they observe. What does your kind do?
And what if it is being done under the auspices of the Chinese government? Does it still remain simply drug smuggling when it is being done by a foreign government?
I mean, it's hard to answer questions about underspecified random hypotheticals, but, yes, governments have traditionally been involved in smuggling.
You are deflecting. It is a very simple question. What if the Chinese government is involved in the smuggling? Does that change if it is an invasion or hostile action by a foreign government or is it still just simply smuggling?
I'll see your "Military Aged" and raise you an "Assault-Style" Rifle, and a "Women's Health Center" (AKA Abortatorium) while you're at it.
Frank
A target. Rat tat tat....
You're an attention-seeking cartoon at this point.
10 years ago you were occasionally interesting.
You are quite deranged now and you should start a podcast with BCD, Mr. Bumble and blonde Jesus and leave us alone.
I'll donate.
He is, simply, a psychopath. And I suppose if he had any guts, which thankfully he doesn't, he would be going around shooting random people.
Was it Lathrop?
LOL no.
On Treason: A Citizen’s Guide to the Law by Carlton F.W. Larson is a good book. He explained how "treason" was sometimes defined broadly in antebellum times but that over time it has had a more restrictive reach.
In a later op-ed, he quoted Joseph Story:
In 1842, Justice Joseph Story summarized the law, concluding it was treason “by force to prevent the execution of any one or more general and public laws of the government, or to resist the exercise of any legitimate authority of the government in its sovereign capacity.”
Again, such an open-ended usage didn't stick. Such actions could still be addressed. Likewise, immigration policy and local law can address the situation here without exaggerated labeling of "invasion" which is bad constitutional law with problematic implications.
It has taken Pres. Biden 3.5 years to deal with the invasion at the border. He is not doing anything effective.
He's a demented old man who shits his pants, and you expect competent governance??
Story also gave a jury instruction in a treason case and it was much narrower and discussed the military aspect of it.
Shouldn't we also consider the context that a 1789 invasion by the British into New England or Spain into Georgia would be vastly different than a modern Canadian invasion of Michigan or Honduras into California? Information, troops, and other resources, as well as Congressional declaration, would take weeks to months to coordinate in 1789 - a more urgent need for local control of war policy. Today an invasion force into Maine would be recognized almost immediately, could be acted upon at the Federal level in hours; days at most - almost eliminating the urgency for local war policy that the Founders were likely addressing with Art. IV.
OK. I got it now.
If three divisions of Communist Chinese troops in uniform and bearing arms cross the southern border illegally, it is an invasion.
If the same troops, without weapons (easily obtained in the US), and not wearing uniforms, illegally cross the border, it is just "immigration" and just peachy keen fine.
I wonder why that never occurred to me before?
It's colloquially called the "Democrat Loophole".
Nope. Despite your claim, you evidently don't get it now. Once again: it's the purpose of the act that determines its nature.
What do you think the Chinese government's purpose is to import tons of fentanyl? To lower US drug prices as a favor to the citizens?
The Chinese government isn't importing [sic - you mean exporting] tons of fentanyl. And the normal purpose of smuggling, like all trade, is to make money.
Have you ever heard the word ssbotage? Smuggling large amounts of a dangerous and addictive drug is a good way to foment chaos snd weaken a military opponent.
If the same troops, without weapons (easily obtained in the US),
These hypotheticals just get dumber and dumber.
Three divisions of uniformed Chinese troops just show up at gun stores or shows, or whatever, probably speaking little or no English, and start buying military-grade weapons, presumably for cash. I guess they'll go to the tank store and pick up a few as well.
This is something you're worried about? Let me reassure you. Rest easy. It's not going to happen.
September 11 wasn't going to happen until it did. October 7, wasn't going to happen until it did (and let me get this straight, Net N Yahoo should have known Ham-Ass was going to attack, and prevented it, when he's declared an International War Criminal for merely retaliating to the attack once it happens) Jeez-us, I'd say some of you have shit for brains, but it'd be demeaning to the shit.
Frank
How exactly was tougher enforcement at the Mexican border going to prevent 9/11?
So we should guard against any fantasy attack that might happen - throw people in jail, etc.?
Going to be pretty expensive. I mean, what if the Canadian army comes storming across the border, intending to recapture Idaho or something (they can have it, for all I care, but never mind.) Should we be building walls, fortifications, etc.?
Yet another pointless article. A dishonest intellectual exercise designed to manipulate the legal system and the minds of Liberals to think all is OK because of some lesser known professor says so.
A peaceful demonstration peppered with paid agitators is somehow an insurrection, but 5-10 million illegal aliens crossing a sovereign international border is not an invasion.
Somin is dishonest at best.
So the choice is between
"there is no immigration crisis"
or
"there's an immigration crisis! Now we have a constitutional justification to round up the usual suspects and hold them without trial."
We, the sovereign people, get to choose between these two sane and well-thought-out policy alternatives.
I don't understand why people are so hung up about what it's called. The term we use doesn't change what it is. I think Shakespeare had something to say about that.
Shakespeare? so who you gonna believe, me or your friends?
So when the next “9-11” Happens, and it’s a Soccer team of Somalians who did a hop skip and jump over the Rio Grande instead of Moe-hammad Atta and his lackies overstaying their Visas, and it’s 33,000 killed instead of 3,300, and it’s 90% “People of Color” because it happens in the District of Colored Peoples, or Chicago, or Atlanta
so when that happens, will it be considered an Act of War??
Can hear Parkinsonian Joe’s response now, “Well, we have Domestic Terrorists too!!!”
Frank
So how come no lawyer representing an illegal alien accused of a crime has cited Texas's position to claim belligerent immunity?
This is more a FEMA style emergency than an invasion. Like a tsunami on the TX or CA shore or a meteor strike. The front line states need, and are asking for, help from other states to address an urgent humanitarian crisis.