The Volokh Conspiracy
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Sad Thoughts About American Politics
The debate and its aftermath have crystallized some things in my mind, and I thought I'd note them. This subject is outside my academic area of expertise, so I appreciate that I might be mistaken in most or all of my observations. I also expect that others have put all this much better than I have. But I thought I'd pass along my thoughts, just as one American to others.
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[1.] It seems to me that the current situation highlights the major problems with the Democratic Party. Many Democrats must have been aware of Biden's cognitive decline. They must have been aware that it's a danger to the country, and a danger to their own election prospects.
They had ample opportunities to press the President to step aside graciously in time for a substitute candidate who could exploit Trump's vast political weaknesses. To the extent they were worried that Harris would be the obvious substitute, and that she would make a losing candidate, it didn't take a masterful political chess player to anticipate in 2020 that this might be a problem. And even though it's obviously difficult to get a President to step down—indeed, though it's difficult to get most people to acknowledge their own cognitive decline—the job of a well-functioning party is to be able to accomplish such tasks.
[2.] The current situation highlights the major problems with the Republican Party. Even if you support Trump, and agree with his policies, answer honestly: Would you have, twenty years ago, wanted someone like him as your candidate? Set aside whether you think he's the lesser evil: Do you trust him to be calm and collected in a foreign policy crisis? Do you think he's an inspirational leader? Do you think he's a worthy heir to the presidents you admire (whether Washington, Lincoln, Reagan, Coolidge, or whoever else)?
Even if you think his behavior on January 6, 2021 isn't as bad as it was painted, do you think it actually speaks well of his character and his trustworthiness? Do you believe what he tells you?
And even if you just want to stop the Democrats, how good a job has Trump done with that? In his time as the de facto leader of the Republican Party, he had one victory (2016) followed by three defeats (2018, 2020, 2022). Much of the public, including not just the far Left but many swing voters (and even some Republicans), views him extremely negatively—surely not a great quality for a political candidate.
Say the Democrats do persuade Biden to step aside, and persuade Harris to do so as well, and the Democratic Convention chooses a successful purple-state Democratic governor or senator. How confident are you that Trump will win then? Wouldn't there be some Republican candidates who would have been more effective at capitalizing on Biden's historically disastrous debate performance?
[3.] Now let's turn to the media. The media's job should be to inform the public about what's actually going on in the government. Certainly that should be so with regard to the cognitive abilities of the President.
Has the media done a good job of honestly informing the public of this? Was it doing a good job of reporting the problems (or at least accurately predicting them, if you think Biden has taken a sharp turn for the worse in the last few months) when the reporting would still have been relevant to the Democratic primary elections?
Either the media (not just the few outlets that assiduously reported on this question, but the media generally) learned of Biden's decline the night of the debate, when the rest of us did, or they knew it all along. If they learned it that night, what does that tell you about them? If they knew it all along, what does that tell you? Is either answer anything good?
[4.] Finally, let's turn to the criminal justice system. Trump was convicted of felonies. He's being prosecuted for other felonies.
Yet as a result his standing in the polls hasn't materially changed. Perhaps one might blame that in part on his militant partisans—but Trump continues to have considerable support among independents as well. Even polls that conclude that he has lost some ground among independents suggest the loss is relatively small, and that many independents don't view the convictions as stemming from a "fair and impartial process." (According to Politico, for instance, "a plurality of [independents said] that they thought that the verdict [in the New York criminal case] was the result of a fair and impartial process (46 percent), while others disagreed (27 percent) or said that they did not know (24 percent).)
Again, if twenty years ago you had been asked, "What would be the consequence for a presidential candidate if he was convicted of felonies, and was being tried for other felonies, all in the middle of an election campaign?," I expect your answer would likely have been "Disastrous." Either people have lost a great deal of trust in the justice system generally. Or they have concluded that in these situations the criminal justice system is being used as a political weapon rather than a genuine tool to protect the public from criminals. Either answer is bad.
[* * *]
So what is the problem? One answer is bad people. But there have always been bad people.
Our constitutional system, not just the written Constitution but also the structures we've developed over the centuries, is meant to try to deal with bad people. Ambition is supposed to counteract ambition. Broad-based national institutions are supposed to check the excesses of narrow factions. Individual candidates' egos are meant to be constrained by those institutions—even when those institutions are themselves made up of flawed individuals with their own egos.
One way of thinking about this is to imagine this happening in a foreign country. Imagine that, unexpectedly, we Americans started to pay attention to an election campaign in some other nation. In that campaign, an 81-year-old incumbent who was obviously entering cognitive decline was squaring an off against a 78-year-old candidate who had been convicted of crimes, was being tried for other crimes, and who at the very least behaved highly un-Presidentially in response to a prior electoral defeat. Would we think that the foreign country had healthy political institutions?
I can't tell you what caused these problems. Is the shift to primary elections part of the reason? (Was the old smoke-filled-room system better?) Is ideological homogeneity among much of the media part of the reason? Is the growth of social media part of the reason? Is it something else? Even if we can diagnose the problem, is there any realistic path to a solution?
I just think that there's more going on here than two particular extraordinarily weak candidates. And to find a way forward, we have to figure out some solutions that transcend these candidates, and this election cycle.
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The mistake you make in this post is essentially the same most of the elites make. Belittling his supporters by assuming there are not motivated by issues and President Trump's position on those issues. Are lower taxes, less oppressive regulation, a secure border issues that Reagan wouldn't have supported? And President Trump's supporters also oppose the higher taxes, spending and regulation that democrats insist on, not to mention the democrat positions on social issues that approach insanity.
I think you have erected a strawman. This from Eugene doesn’t belittle anyone by assuming they are not motivated by issues:
I think he does with this lecturing on character which is as insulting to the intelligence of voters as it is a mischaracterization of President Trump clouded by the writer's own prejudices. And where is his hand-ringing over Biden's (the "big guy") character? Reagan believed he was a snake long before the onset of Joe's dementia.
One cannot insult something that doesn't exist.
You really want to call them "deplorables" again don't you? How well did that work out for you last time?
He did not call them "deplorables." That is your projection.
It's not a projection. Projection is what the left does when they try to attribute their wrongs to the right. I was just, somewhat facetiously, interpreting the obvious intent underlying David's comment.
I think Hillary underestimated the scope of the problem.
Of course, Trump supporters whining that someone was mean to them is the most pathetic thing ever. ("We love Trump because he tells it like it is. Also, Hillary correctly said that half of us were stupid racist assholes. How dare she!")
Amen, but Riva does understand that.
The problem with saying it's just Trump's policies as why Trump got the GOP nomination, we could have gotten all those policies and a more effective administrator with DeSantis.
So no, a big majority of GOP primary voters wanted Trump and his baggage over a much younger DeSantis and very little baggage, and an excellent record running a large state.
Well ok, that's your view. But you're essentially just engaging in more belittling of the electorate by assuming they didn't make they're own rational analysis and concluded that Desantis would not have been as effective, assuming he was pursing the same polices.
This isn't complicated.
Most Americans want President Trump back because they're lives were better.
"It's the economy, STUPID!"
EW
GOP voters have complained consistently about candidates who talked a good game until they got in office and then compromised on the issues they cared about. They trust Trump on the follow through in a way they don’t trust the others. Perhaps their criticism of GOP pols is misguided or trust in Trump misplaced, but any analysis of why his support is as strong as it is that leaves this factor out is missing the crucial part.
I've often said the Tea Party was was an insurrection against the Republicans, not the Democrats, for going along with the Democrats too much.
GOP voters have complained consistently about candidates who talked a good game until they got in office and then compromised on the issues they cared about.
But this points out a larger problem, then. Compromise is an essential part of democratic governance. Getting to a majority is not supposed to be easy. It is not supposed to be easy, usually not even possible, for a single faction to be able to get every policy they want enacted exactly as they want it.
When you look at polls over specific issues, you can get broad majority support for policy proposals worded broadly. But the moment you start getting more specific, the differences of opinion start to show up. For a whole, major political party to maintain a majority means stitching together a lot of people that will have a lot of different ideas on what the best policies are. What is the saying? Put any ten people in a room and you'll have more than a dozen different opinions on any given topic.
The fracturing of news media into more narrow partisan and ideological outlets has given many voters the wrong idea. They believe that more people agree with them than is actually the case, and that leads to them thinking that they should be able to get exactly what they want from government without compromise.
But it is not just about news media. It is about our social interactions more generally being narrowed. We have sorted our local communities more uniformly, and we have fewer daily interactions with people that have different political and cultural points of view. We are more isolated from the rest of society than we were, and this is leaving us less able to empathize with others.
To the extent that Trump is satisfying an urge among voters for someone that won't compromise, this is leading them down a dangerous path. If you can't compromise, you can't have democracy. The fundamental compromise in democratic governance is accepting it when your political preferences are not the majority and that the majority gets to govern instead.
The mistake you make in this post is essentially the same most of the elites make. Belittling his supporters by assuming there are not motivated by issues and President Trump’s position on those issues. Are lower taxes, less oppressive regulation, a secure border issues that Reagan wouldn’t have supported?
Trump hasn't actually said much about lower taxes (apart from financing further tax breaks for the wealthy, financed by cutting Medicare and Social Security) or "less oppressive regulation" (apart from using the regulatory state to turn the economy away from using renewable energy resources or electric vehicles). And if you think Reagan would have supported Trump's extremism on immigration, well... take a moment to review the history.
You're helpfully demonstrating that Trump supporters basically just believe what they want, about his actual policy preferences, regardless of what he's actually said. That's what got him elected in 2016, too.
The mistake you make in this post is essentially the same most of the elites make. Belittling his supporters by assuming there are not motivated by issues and President Trump’s position on those issues.
Eugene is not doing that. He premises a question for Trump supporters on them favoring his past policies and upcoming policy ideas. His question is whether they would have thought that Trump himself would have been fit for the job just based on his known personal and behavioral flaws? Specifically, he asked:
Do you trust him to be calm and collected in a foreign policy crisis? Do you think he’s an inspirational leader? Do you think he’s a worthy heir to the presidents you admire (whether Washington, Lincoln, Reagan, Coolidge, or whoever else)?
The whole premise of many of the right's criticisms of Bill Clinton in the 90s (aka the "vast right-wing conspiracy" as Hillary infamously called it) was based on flaws in his character, not as much on his policies after he moved back toward the center after the HillaryCare debacle.
It does shock me how much the Republican base, and voters outside of that base, seems either willing to overlook all of the things about his personality that they would have said were deal-breakers in a presidential candidate before 2015 or that actually view his 'quirks' as virtues.
Those are pretty generic GOP issues. No reason to think Trump is the best/only candidate on those.
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Even if you support Trump, and agree with his policies, answer honestly: Would you have, twenty years ago, wanted someone like him as your candidate? Set aside whether you think he’s the lesser evil:
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All the Presidents for the past few decades, Democrats and Republicans have been duds in some significant sense. Asking if I want someone better as if its some materially relevant knock on my position is like asking why don’t I buy a flying time machine instead of a regular car for my daily commute.
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Do you trust him to be calm and collected in a foreign policy crisis?
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People swore up and down America would be a literal smoking crater the first time he became President. And he just turned out in the day to day sense of executing his duties to be pretty much like any other typical President for better or for worse. The apocalypse didn’t happen then and I see no reason it would happen this time.
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Do you think he’s an inspirational leader? Do you think he’s a worthy heir to the presidents you admire (whether Washington, Lincoln, Reagan, Coolidge, or whoever else)?
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If we had Twitter/Social Media/etc all these people would probably be far less respected than they are now.
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Even if you think his behavior on January 6, 2021 isn’t as bad as it was painted,
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It isn’t
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do you think it actually speaks well of his character and his trustworthiness? Do you believe what he tells you?
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99% of what the average leftist believes about Trump is formed by the MSM. In reality he’s not satan incarnate. He’s grandpa with a twitter account.
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And even if you just want to stop the Democrats, how good a job has Trump done with that? In his time as the de facto leader of the Republican Party, he had one victory (2016) followed by three defeats (2018, 2020, 2022). Much of the public, including not just the far Left but many swing voters (and even some Republicans), views him extremely negatively—surely not a great quality for a political candidate.
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Yeah, he hasn’t done a very good job pushing the conservative agenda because in the end he really isn’t conservative at least by the standards of a few years ago. But walking out of the thrashing of Biden with just the takeway that they both suck is the standard cope spin on Joe’s disastrous performance the Dems are broadcasting to all their partners and surrogates. And it just makes whoever repeats that line look like another Dem programmed robot.
Beck is instructional.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YgSPaXgAdzE
"with just the takeway that they both suck is the standard cope spin"
Trump cannot speak the truth. He blustered, misled and where he was clear, his "policies" were dangerous.
No, open borders are dangerous to our security. The weaponization of the law is dangerous to civil liberties. Democrat polices are harmful, not President Trump’s.
No, open borders are dangerous to our security.
There is hardly anyone in America that wants open borders. (Ilya Somin is one of the few that even might want that.) You are following along with a rhetorical tactic the immigration restrictionists have used for years. You equate anything less restrictive than what you want with "open borders." It isn't just hyperbole or a straw man fallacy, it is fundamentally dishonest and intellectually lazy to avoid arguing about the specifics of a complex problem like that.
The weaponization of the law is dangerous to civil liberties.
A very broad statement that no one reasonable would disagree with. That's another tactic that is lazy and dishonest, because it forces someone with opposing views to seem to be arguing against that, rather than against the premise that the law is being weaponized against your side.
Democrat polices are harmful, not President Trump’s.
So you say. Try and articulate the specifics and see if your opinion holds up.
People swore up and down America would be a literal smoking crater the first time he became President. And he just turned out in the day to day sense of executing his duties to be pretty much like any other typical President for better or for worse. The apocalypse didn’t happen then and I see no reason it would happen this time.
Apart from the fact that the right-wing extremists behind him have a much more articulated plan, you mean?
A broader view would be instructive here. None of the examples of degrading democracies in the world went from "full democracy" to "corrupt authoritarian" in a few years. It takes time to erode institutions, seal up the gaps, install judges. Erdogan, Modi, Orban - these are projects that take several years. Putin couldn't even flip Russia into the dictatorship it's become overnight.
Republicans' march to the fascist right was stymied by Biden's win in 2020, but they have a plan to make up for lost time in 2024, and they have judges in a lot of the right places (including a super-majority in the Supreme Court). Trump has also clearly learned a lesson, as his second run at the office shows favor for his own circle of advisers - and remember that these advisers have their hands in a lot of the corrupt, degrading democracies referred to above - rather than GOP establishment picks.
Basically the only thing stopping Trump from effecting truly catastrophic change in his second term is his own incompetence and sloth.
re: "the right-wing extremists behind him"
You'd be amazed how "extreme" people can get it you (1) call them names (like "deplorables"), (2) try to (illegally!) keep their candidate from office by fabricating a fake story about how he is a foreign agent and then "investigating" him, (3) continue with #2 for years while he's in office, (4) cheat to defeat him after one term (or at the very least (illegally!) change voting rules in favor of his opponent), (5) proceed to prosecute him for a slew of fake charges. Keep it up, guys! It's bound to end well for all concerned!
One of the big tools of growing tyranny is the use of the government's power of prosecution to knock out your competition. Venezuela, Turkey, and of course modern Russia, China, all use this in front of the eyes of the world.
Leaders of other countries, including Merkle IIRC, expressed concern the US was doing this, and long before Jan. 6.
This is not disinterested concern for rule of law, but deliberate targetting of an opponent because they are an opponent. The sheer number of initiatives belies the lie of disinterested concern, as does the glee pursuing two impeachments, which, people around here joyously pointed out, get the constitutional honor of being applied to opposition qua opposition. And finally, sending investigative results down to the states, so the states can get him, "just in case".
These are all evidences the myriad initiatives are about a political opponent.
By the way, the prohibition on using the power of government against an opponent, is part of all are equal before the law, just as nobody is above the law is a part of it.
Kings who used their power, sans warrants, were frequently tangling with often wealthy lords and others, and knew if they looked hard enough, they could always find something. This is why you have rights like the 4th Amendment. It's not just to protect people on the street, but really to protect the powerful in their fights against each other.
No, you can't just go plowing through their "papers" and house. No, you can't just go raid their lawyer's cabinet. No, you can't just expropriate their estate, without giving them the fair market value of it, something that was also done to especially uppity lords.
You are the real theat to freedom. There it is, laid out. Your biggest fear complaint? "Oh noes! What if he does to us what we've been doing to him?"
And if that happens, I'll sigh and take it up again. Donald "Lock Her Up!" Trump does not escape notice.
One of the big tools of growing tyranny is the use of the government’s power of prosecution to knock out your competition.
Perhaps a bigger tool of growing tyranny is for the government in power to simply declare that their election loss was tainted and hold on to power despite losing. That is what is meant by a "autocoup" or "self coup" - the legitimately elected government goes beyond legal means to expand and retain control.
You are claiming that prosecuting Donald Trump for alleged crimes is an attempt by Democrats to "knock out" their opponent. That is one perspective, but the other is that it is an example of no one being above the law. The "hush money" prosecution was thin enough in its legal theory to justify the former perspective, even if I would say that the classified documents case is strongly indicative of the latter.
The perspective that Trump was trying to fight a "stolen election" leading up to and on Jan. 6, 2021 doesn't hold up to the slightest scrutiny, though. The procedures and rules for elections are set well in advance of anyone voting. Any disputes over those procedures, including changes to them, can and should be resolved through courts before anyone votes. After votes are cast and the counting begins, the procedures in place are supposed to ensure that every legal vote is counted and counted accurately. Any disputes over the counting have well established methods of challenging them, through canvassing boards and the courts, if necessary. Trump and his allies did not show sufficient cause during any of that to change the results in any disputed state to his favor. Thus, he lost. That should have been the end of it.
An election that was a factor of 20 closer than any of the disputed states in 2020, and only very close in that one state, ended with a Supreme Court ruling and that was the end of any serious questioning of the election. The losing candidate in that election did concede at that point and even ruled the objections raised by his party during the counting of Florida's electoral votes to be out of order.
Trump had spent several months claiming that he could only lose by fraud. He told his voters how insecure mail voting was, leading them to avoid it in large numbers and vote in person instead. Prior to Trump bad mouthing absentee/mail voting in 2020, there was no significant partisan difference in the practice, and around 25% of the votes cast in Trump's win in 2016 were cast by mail. The biggest effect of Trump's efforts led to Steve Bannon's infamous statement a few days before election day, where he declared exactly what happened - that Trump would claim victory on Election Night, while many mailed ballots would still be uncounted, and then they could charge the other side with fraud if the results came out different in the end.
Trump already had a history of outrageous lies about fraud , but this time, it wasn't just about trying to explain away not getting the most total votes. (3 million illegals voted for Hillary, of course, which, coincidentally, would be enough to erase her popular vote lead.) Trump would actually try and steal back what he was claiming was stolen from him.
Trump did more damage to the country's unity and democratic institutions than anyone in over a century. The greatest failure has been the cowardice of the Republican leadership to oppose him, even if it cost them their jobs. If Republican politicians had stood up to Trump with a fraction of the spine that Republicans showed during Watergate, Trump wouldn't be running in 2024 because he would have been convicted by the Senate and barred from office. Seven Republican Senators did vote to convict him, making the vote 57-43. Ten more Republicans with integrity, and we would have avoided all of this.
The question is not whether Biden can govern. He certainly can, because if he’s “out of it” at times there are good people around him who can run things. We saw this with Reagan, especially in his second term, and also with Nixon in his final months. The question is whether Biden can beat Trump, after that debate.
Unlike Biden, Trump does not have good people around him. He picks people based on personal loyalty. In his first term, he had crazy, dictatorial ideas that were stopped only because the professionals around him were, as he says now, insufficiently loyal, right up to Pence. We’ve seen again and again people who worked with him say that he was a moron, incompetent, lazy, uneducable, a spoiled child, etc. He’s “learned his lesson” and will pick people only on the basis of loyalty, not competence, in his second term.
"[Trump] picks people based on personal loyalty."
How do you square this with the scores of former Trump appointees who have turned against him? His own VP hasn't endorsed him for a second term. This just sounds like a hallucination, to be honest.
Trump picks based on personal loyalty. Except when he doesn’t. CC literally contradicts himself in the space of two sentences. Speaking of truly unfit for high office.
He thought they were loyal when he picked them. Note the "happy to work for Dear Leader" press conference introducing his cabinet.
Unfortunately for him they turned out to have a backbone. He won't make that "mistake" again.
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Unfortunately for him they turned out to have a backbone. He won’t make that “mistake” again.
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I doubt that. They were screaming at him about this throughout his entire term and he still kept picking people who would make a nasty comment or write a tell all book about him or break with his stated policy. He's probably the worst person at picking people who will remain personally loyal to him that I have ever seen.
He’s probably the worst person at picking people who will remain personally loyal to him that I have ever seen.
Another explanation is that he presents himself as charming and reasonable to those people he wants to work for him, and they sincerely express enthusiasm and loyalty. But then they start to see who he really is and lose that loyalty. The ones that don't lose that loyalty, always knew who he was and either didn't care because they would benefit or liked him because of those features.
"He thought..."
How do you have special insight into Donald Trump's innermost thoughts?
Trump has told us, over and over, what his thoughts were.
How do you square this with the scores of former Trump appointees who have turned against him?
He's not a good judge of character, even when he's looking for corrupt characters?
I think he got fed a lot of ringers by the party establishment, people who'd be working for them, not Trump.
Most people, by the time they come to the Oval office, have the proverbial binder full of people they can trust to do the job, and do it loyally. Trump lacked that, and worse, actually thought that paying somebody's salary would get him their loyalty while on the clock.
I would say there's a lot garbage to clear out of DC.
That isn't correct. He neither has nor understands loyalty. He picks people based on sycophancy. To be sure, in his first term he was utterly unprepared to take office, because he — like everyone — assumed he'd lose to Hillary. As a result, many of his initial hires were recommended by party insiders. He's much more prepared this time around.
Some have said that he has the mentality of a mob
boss. That’s not true. Mob bosses reward loyalty with loyalty. They have your back. Trump expects loyalty but gives none in return.
Yes. The most egregious example is Jeff Sessions. Sessions was the first prominent GOP figure to endorse him. Sessions stuck with him through thick and thin, never once badmouthing him about anything. Sessions was 100% behind the Trump agenda.
And yet, Trump didn't just throw Sessions under the bus; he gleefully drove the bus back and forth over Sessions' corpse, because he was mad that Sessions had some professional integrity and recused himself as the ethics office told him he had to.
There are good people around Biden to run things if he can’t govern? That’s not governing. That’s a coup. Or an insurrection since you guys seem to prefer that term.
"The question is not whether Biden can govern. He certainly can"
How can you say that?
He is in a steady cognitive decline. We elect a President, not a set of staffers. He is a dangerous choice. It can also be that Trump is dangerous in other ways.
I cannot in good conscience vote for either,
That's not good conscience. It's irresponsibly stupid not to vote against the party furthering the disgusting republic ending lawfare. that would be the Democrat party.
If one lives in a state where the electoral college outcome is not in doubt, voting against both sides seems a reasonable signal. And has been my choice for the last few elections, and will be again from a Trump Biden match. If your state actually matters, making a choice, however hard, is probably the correct thing to do.
He is in a steady cognitive decline. We elect a President, not a set of staffers. He is a dangerous choice. It can also be that Trump is dangerous in other ways.
Trump is indeed dangerous. And what the danger amounts to is twofold:
1. He suffers from what you claim about Biden. He can't govern. Whether that's due to cognitive decline, which Trump certainly demonstrates, or general laziness, lack of concern, or ignorance doesn't much matter, does it?
2. And Trump, unlike Biden, is going to put the government at his personal service. He's not even going to try. Just appoint his sycophants and give them the run of the place.
3. And finally, he absolutely will do what he can to corrupt American democracy. He's already shown that.
So I'm not impressed with "Biden can't govern." The alternative is not Solomon the Wise. It's another guy, with tons of faults, who can't govern either, and is a corrupt, ignorant fool besides.
In 2016, Trump became the Republican Party’s candidate for President, but he remained largely an outsider. So he had to rely on the Republican establishment for a lot. Most of his caninet members were fairly mainstream Republicans. He farmed out selecting judicial candidates to the Federalist Society. And so on.
In the 8 years since, Trump has completely taken over the Republican party, with the old eztablishment mostly either on his side, cowed, or taking early retirement. Indeed, the Republican Party apparatus has largely become an extension of his campaign. So he doesn’t need the old estanlishment figures. He will find a Vice President that he can be confident will throw out the votes that need to be thrown out to ensure his next re-election. His Supreme Court picks will be personal loyalists, people like Giuliani. And so on. In 2016, he couldn’t. He lacked the power. Now he can. So he will.
Yes.
(What’s wrong? You and I agree!)
Well, professor, are you going to vote for one of the two duopoly parties which are presenting us with these choices, and which are trying to stifle alternative choices?
Are you going to look for a third party candidate who, though imperfect, achieves the highly-achievable task of being better than Biden or Trump?
Or are you going to manifest Stockholm Syndrome and stick with the duopolists after what they’ve done to you?
There were several GOP candidates, including both a "Trump-but-competent" and "Anti-Trump."
Voters had a choice. They made it.
"And even if you just want to stop the Democrats, how good a job has Trump done with that? In his time as the de facto leader of the Republican Party, he had one victory (2016) followed by three defeats (2018, 2020, 2022)."
Not sure what you mean with 2022 being a defeat; the Republicans won majority control of the House of Representatives. Maybe one could argue it was an underperformance, but it was not a defeat by any definition of the word.
Biden has had dementia prior to the 2019 primaries, and anyone paying attention, everyone around him daily, and all his doctors damn well knew it. Candidates in full command of their faculties don't bite their spouse's fingers while they're speaking during a political rally. Everyone putting on their shocked pikachu faces about it now is absofuckinglutely infuriating. Every single doctor administering to him over the past 5 years should be stripped of their medical licenses, and they, his immediate family around him on a day to day basis, and every single one of his cabinet members should be charged under the relevant abuse laws.
I do not think the norm is to charge family members of people experiencing cognitive decline because they publicly rationalize moments of unusual or confusing behavior (or even if they privately rationalize those moments, deluding themselves).
I am really sorry you're experiencing an emotional outburst you're having a hard time controlling (to wit, itself a sign of cognitive decline and dementia), but that doesn't require writing an elaborate Qanon fanfiction where you imagine the raft of deep state enemies you've identified brought to Guantanamo to be hung for their perfidy.
In fact, of course, they — and we — all knew the opposite. They saw him in the primary debates. They saw him in the general election debates.
Note to self, Nieporent genuinely thinks that leaning over to bite your spouses fingers while she's speaking at one of the initial political rallies launching your campaign for president is the sign of a cognitively healthy individual.
I understand that a president showing affection for his spouse (or any family member, for that matter) might be very scary and confusing to a Trump supporter.
Yep, because Biden certainly has a history of biting family members in public over many years to show affection. He did it all the time. Happened multiple times during his first presidential campaign. Wait no, that was decidedly not something he ever did in public before.
I think the most amusing part of the fucking morons carrying the party line of it being a sign of affection is how it implies that dementia suffers are somehow unable to show affection. And not that say... dementia suffers are more likely to display behaviors not appropriate to the venue they are present at.
My guess is partisanship has increased to the point we will tolerate things we would not have previously in support of our team.
To all the Trump supporters, what would your reaction be if it was Trump suffering from the same degree of cognitive decline?
To all Biden supporters, what would your reaction be if Biden had lost the 2020 election and acted like Trump did in response?
"If"? Have you listened to Trump speeches? (If not, save yourself: don't.) Here's a few of his greatest hits from the past week:
…
…
…
The posts in this thread so far seem to confirm my thesis (I support my team, no matter what).
Team Trump has rejected that Trump acted improperly and team Biden has rejected that Biden is suffering cognitive decline. But, no one has addressed my "show is on the other foot" hypotheticals.
Your larger points are legit, Eugene, but I have to push back a bit on your TV diagnosis of Biden.
Biden wasn't confused or forgetful, the hallmarks of "cognitive decline." He was rambly -- so was Trump. He was dull -- so have been many poorly-prepared debaters, especially incumbents.
Those weaknesses were exacerbated by frailty. What we saw primarily was a president in physical decline, not cognitive. In other words, 9 PM is well past the bedtime of an 81-year-old. Many a president has been even more frail than Biden.
I've never liked Biden even though I'll vote for him over Trump even if he's dead by November. I would like for him to be replaced. We'll see how much the debate moves the polls. My guess is it'll be about as much as Trump's conviction did.
"Poorly prepared."
He spent the week in a full mock-up of of the debate stage and per Erin Burnett had all the questions ahead of time. Poorly prepared my ass.
No she didn't you gullible doofus. Anyway, you can be extensively prepard and still be poorly prepared. It happens all the time.
Right. She didn't say that he knew every one of these questions was coming. Not at all.
https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1806530432009437254
Knowing what's coming is totally different than having the questions ahead of time. You know what's coming when you take the LSAT. But you obviously don't have the questions ahead of time.
Thanks for correcting yourself.
I'm sorry? Are you saying that people who take the LSAT know every one of the questions they will get? Because that's the only way to square the circle you're implying. She didn't say he knew these KINDS of questions were coming. She said he knew EVERY ONE of these questions were coming. That leads to very different implications.
Look, non-Russian bots understand basic English idioms. The other kind can’t. “He knew what was coming” does not mean “He was handed a script of questions.” It means he was prepared, you imbecile. He knew what questions were coming because I knew what questions were coming because it was obvious what questions were coming.
Read the account of Biden's former White House photographer on what the Biden Whitehouse was like and the extraordinary measures they took to keep Biden away from a very small inside circle.
https://www.newsweek.com/chandler-west-white-house-photographer-joe-biden-debate-drop-out-1919277
Yeah. That article aligns exactly with what I just said. Fatigue. Bedtimes.
If the transcript makes his debate performance seem ok — which it does — then the problems were physical, not mental.
I’m not saying there aren’t age-related problems with Biden. Who wants a frail president? But frail beats criminal for most un-brainwashed voters.
The transcript does Biden no favors.
He said abortion is needed because woman are being raped by their sisters.
He said he beat Medicare.
He said the border patrol endorsed him.
He either lied about or forgot, I'm not sure which would be worse, the 13 servicemen who died as a direct result of his decision to evacuate from Kabul, rather than Kandahar.
He may be fine for a few hours a day, but that's not enough.
And for the record Trump is too old too, but he isn't nearly as old as Biden.
I'm Pretty sure (Dr) Rachel Levine could rape somebody, maybe even his/her brother
These bigots are your fans and defenders, Mr. Volokh. And the reason the party at UCLA occurred after you left campus, not before.
He also repeated his lies about his son dying from burn-pits in Iraq. There's no evidence of this.
Brain Cancer is a VA presumptive PACT Act condition, although there's no conclusive evidence of causation. Strangely enough it's NOT an Agent Orange presumptive condition, although there is pretty good evidence of causation. It's almost like the one group has alot of power politically and the other doesn't
Frank
How did Trump perform on the truth/lies front, you bigoted right-wing stain?
Trump lied way more than Biden. But the idea that Biden stood there and told it straight while Trump lied his ass off is BS.
"That article aligns exactly with what I just said. Fatigue. Bedtimes."
According to Biden's staff, he has trouble functioning outside of 10am-4pm.
This is a common trait among people with dementia, called sundowning.
Sundowning would be applicable if confusion were a symptom. Biden wasn't confused in the debate, and that's not what his staff is reporting either. They're reporting slowness and fatigue.
I'm not saying he's not too old. But the diagnosis is physical, not mental.
Kazinski:
The transcript does Biden no favors.
Sure it does. For all the Biden verbal fuck-ups you mentioned, there are worse Trump ones.
The difference is just that Trump delivered them with energy, and Biden barely whispered them.
Thats's a physical distinction, not a mental one.
"Biden wasn’t confused in the debate,"
We saw what we saw.
He wasn't confused so we should take as true his statements and conclude that he has no clue about abortion (or anything else). His trimester definitions were insanely wrong and he equates illegal immigrants murdering Americans with abortion, Not quite the save his supporters think it is
Randal,
He was not rambly. He was standing with mouth open, jaw slack for long periods.
He was confused and spoke in incoherent sentences. He was not poorly prepared; maybe he was over prepared.
He was sad; his performance squares well with Hur's description. Unfortunately, unless Biden withdraws, we are stuck with him on the ticket. Even if he does withdraw, the D party needs to nominate by Aug. 6 to be on the Ohio ballot.
My preference would be for Biden to replace Harris with a VP clearly competent to to be Pesident
We don’t need Ohio. In fact it would probably be better overall for Democrats if Ohio Republicans succeed in keeping the Democratic nominee off the ballot.
That would require Harris to resign, I believe. She's never been closer to being President, barring the moments Biden is navigating stairs, why would she do that?
They're going to have to offer her something amazing, to beat even six months as President.
Randal's comments Biden wasn’t confused or forgetful, the hallmarks of “cognitive decline.”
Those weaknesses were exacerbated by frailty. What we saw primarily was a president in physical decline, not cognitive."
Randal - still being fooled by your own propaganda!
Have you lot never met someone who is actually suffering from confusion and memory loss? It's a very different -- and much scarier -- phenomenon.
Let me fix that for you, professor:
“It seems to me that the current situation highlights the major problems with the [Republican] Party. Many [Republicans] must have been aware of [Trump]’s cognitive [moral] decline. They must have been aware that it’s a danger to the country, and a danger to their own election prospects."
First Stolen Valor, now Stolen Lucidity? Lets See, Comatose Joe said he "Beat Medicare"(true, but not in the sense he was trying to express) Hunter died in Ear-Rock, Women get raped and fucked by family members, so what's the problem if an Ill-legal gets in on the fun (man!), oh and no Servicemen have died on "His Watch" Fact check that shit you sniveling excuse for a Prepuce.
Frank
"moral decline"?
Trump has been the same immoral asshole for decades
The felony convictions shouldn't move the needle much. The underlying conduct was already out there.
In my area, a boy died because he was allowed to shoot an Uzi at a gun show without adult supervision. It is a crime to let a minor shoot a machine gun. I didn't know that. Most people didn't know that. The organizer was a police chief and even he didn't know about that law. Does it matter for your perception of the whole affair whether the jury returned a guilty verdict? The reporting painted enough of a picture for me to judge. (The dead boy was Christopher Bizilj and the police chief was Edward Fleury. You can look up the rest.)
I wonder if future generations will think that tye idiom "trumped-up charges" originated with the Trump prosecutions?
Anyway, the difference between Trump and Uzi kid is that Trump has been claiming that these are trumped-up charges. A jury-delivered guilty verdict makes that seem less likely.
We can presume from the jury verdict that Trump violated the law as the trial judge interpreted it.
The needle has been moving against Biden since the trials. Trump is up to +1.9 in the RCP average from +.9.
Yeah, Tax-a-chus-etts of course, and not just an Uzi, but a Micro-Uzi, the lightest version with the highest rate of fire. A M1A1 Thompson or M3 Grease gun would have been a better choice. Let my teen daughers shoot my M-11, but only after shooting rapidly in semi-auto, it shoots at about 1200rpm and can run away on you. Now they fly around with M61A1's, and they don't me shoot theirs
Frank
"The underlying conduct was already out there."
Yup. Clinton committed largely the same underlying conduct without losing much support, and without even being charged.
IMO, If you follow the removal logic to its inevitable conclusion, Harris has to be the Dem nominee whether the Dems like it or not.
If Biden steps aside as the nominee, its an admission he is unfit. I cant see any scenario where either Biden steps aside as nominee and/or the Dems remove him as nominee without conceding he’s unfit for the Presidency. You can’t have an unfit President with his finger on nukes, not even for 4-6 months*.
The Cabinet/VP will be forced to 25th amendment him. That makes Harris the Acting President. Its dubious Harris would go along with any plan where she is not the nominee**.
So, if Biden is cast aside as nominee, its either Harris as nominee and Acting President, or a constitutional crisis where an unfit guy holds office.
I know people don’t like Harris, but she is fully capable (she was CA AG, a big office, that counts for something). She polls about the same as Biden. The election is not a likeability contest, we have unlikable vs unlikable felon. Most importantly, when people see you in a job, their reservations about you doing it melt away. As Acting President, she will assume the mantle of de facto incumbent and get a bump.
I am not a Harris fan, but I think its a mistake to think she can’t beat Trump. She will look prepared, young, and competent beside him. She can beat him, and she very well might.
* I expect Iran, Hezbollah etc to challenge the US in the next 6 months to exploit Bidens perceived weakness.
** no Newsome. This will split the Dems who think Harris is being shafted because shes black. I can see Whitmer being the VP. This is a smart move with MI in play, but its hard to see how Harris gets cast aside so Whitmer is Pres, or why she’d go along with this plan.
Also, yes, Trump should step aside too, but we arent in that universe. When the dust settles, I expect Trump to pledge to resign after 2 years and upsell his VP.
Also, as for the fix here, I think the primary process is broken. It selects for the radicals at the far end of the bell curve who struggle to move to the middle.
Michelle Obama. She's popular, and the Democrats can nominate her instead of Harris without being racist sexist oppressors.
No. You have been smoking too much hopium. She has no experience. Also, I know its a lot to ask, but explain the universe where Harris allows that to happen.
Also, she has aid hunreds of times that she has no interest whatsoever in running.
A thing you say to be a team player, thats all. She's the VP, former Senator, and former CA AG. Of course she wants the job.
He's talking about Michelle Obama, not Kamala.
If Biden steps aside as the nominee, its an admission he is unfit.
Or not.
Harris's only chance to win is for Biden to step aside now and give her a chance to show some competence.
Common-Law's amazingly one of the few Political Bee-otches more shrill and less popular than Hilary Rodman. Can you imagine a NSC meeting when she's on her period? Hello World War 4.
Frank "Got Armageddon?"
She polls similar to Biden. 2024 is not a likeability contest, she'll do fine.
Yes, the sooner the better.
My opinion, FWIW, is that the more government meddles in daily life, the more people are motivated to sic government on other people than mind their own business. It is literally more profitable to get the government to mind their business than to try to stop the government from minding your business.
Thus politics becomes more and more important. Since government is a monopoly, there's nothing to do for it but get involved in politics, to try to sic government on everybody else.
A very minor example in my area: the city has an ordinance forbidding signs inside a store from blocking more than 1/4 of the view from outside through a window. Or something incredibly stupid like that. This hit the local news because some businessman sicced the government on a competitor.
That stuff happens on a national level far too often. The feds should not be involved with K-12 schools at all; that is for local school boards. Yet the current regime mandates CRT and other woke agenda, the previous one didn't, and if the GOP wins this November, they will ban it. This does not belong in government's hands in any way. All it does is piss off half the country, its pendulum swings back and forth way too often, and it ruins polite discourse.
Setting aside the misuse of the word "regime," it does not in fact do any such thing.
Oh, hogwash. You lawyers may like quibbling over "mandate", but real people know the meaning.
Most lawyers are real people too. That was David Nieporent, who so matter-of-factly declares as "misuse" a common and accepted use of a term. He does wrong with certainty.
Neither "regime" nor "mandate" was used correctly, although the former is simply tendentious while the latter is a flat out lie.
A good summary of how we got here.
But I don't see any solutions on how to get out. I voted against Trump in the primaries, I lost. For the most part I liked Trump's policies when he was in office, but I didn't like the disfunction, or how he handled losing in 2020.
But Biden, and all the leading Democrats are non starters for me. Anyone who supports net zero is right out.
The only possible candidate I've heard mentioned for the Democrats is Jaime Dimon, and I'd have to hear more.
But I don't think either side is going to blink, nor do I think any of the prominent Democrats (Harris, Newsome, Whitmire, etc) will change the dynamic of the race or the tone.
Harris is around Biden all the time, she is part of the cover-ups and lies. Newsome helped prepare Joe for the debate, he knew. And they are incompetents to boot.
I've remarked on this before.
We have a constitution that establishes a small and limited government. The federal government was set up to do only the jobs the states could not do themselves. A great many powers were reserved to the states, or simply prohibited.
None the less we have a leviathan government that admits no limits. It regulates what was not delegated to it. It regulates what was forbidden to it. It has grown, cancerous, far beyond anything the Constitution honestly interpreted would allow.
If you're going to have a Leviathan government under the US constitution, it WILL be staffed with dishonest men. Honest men, swearing to uphold that Constitution, would not be doing these things.
You want government by honest men? There are only two ways to get it: (Or, rather, make it even logically possible.) Either reduce the government to what the Constitution honestly authorizes, or amend it to honestly authorize the government we have.
Don't expect to have a scale of government your highest law doesn't honestly permit, and have it run by honest men. The world doesn't work like that.
Humans are humans: flawed. There is no government by honest men. That's why we divide power.
The poor forgotten 10th Amendment, it gets less love and support than Hunter's daughter, (How the Eff is he not in jail for being a Deadbeat Dad?)
Frank
Well put.
The alure of DC, because of what it has become, is why there are these two candidates. I recommend Regional governments to disburse the singular power center of DC. Otherwise, accelerate the dictatorship and implement an office of the Emperor - crown and scepter.
We are where we are because the framers in their wisdom gave us the electoral college. Period, full stop. Without it Trump would have lost the 2016 election and faded off into the sunset. Biden would never have been elected so his cognitive decline would be irrelevant. And both parties would now be choosing competent adults as their candidates.
I realize that for some Hillary haters the current meltdown is a small price to pay for having kept her out of the White House. To which I respond that electing her would merely have given you policies with which you disagree, and which you could challenge in the next election.
Ridiculous to say that, because if the rules were different in the election Trump would have campaigned differently. He would have piled in on in states he knew he would win, and mined votes and gotten disillusioned voters from states he knew he would lose.
That's like a football team that lost 7-15 saying 'if they didn't allow field goals we would have won'.
Elections like football games are played with the rules in effect at the time. Different rules, different strategies, nobody knows what would have happened.
Is there any actual reason to believe that Trump campaigning differently would have gotten him a larger slice of the popular vote? I remember that election. By the time Election Day finally rolled around I doubt much of anything would have changed the minds of many voters.
if the rules were different in the election Trump would have campaigned differently.
Well, sure he would have. So would Clinton. That doesn't mean Trump would have won anyway.
Like it or not, the national popular vote under the EC is a rational estimate of what it would be under a popular vote system.
Sure, opposition voters in strongly blue/red states might turn out in larger numbers, but so might complacent voters in those states. There's a lot to weigh there, and we can't know what the balance is.
Sure, they'd have both campaigned differently under different rules. The reason to think Trump would have won anyway is that he won under the rules they both were campaigning under, which creates a presumption he was just better at campaigning, (Or less awful, maybe.) and would have campaigned better under different rules, too.
The reason to think Trump would have won anyway is that he won under the rules they both were campaigning under, which creates a presumption he was just better at campaigning,
No, it doesn't. That's like saying taking away the three-point line for the 2017-2018 season (the year after they won their first championship with KD), they would still have been the odds-on favorite to win. Okay, maybe they would have, but it's clear that they had a significant advantage given their 3-pt shooting was 39.1% and the next best was a distant 37.7%. That's huge. Taking away the three-point line would significantly change the Warriors' advantage. They had little inside strength and play which would have been a serious weakness without three pointers.
Shorter: You can't just say there is a presumption things would turn out the same after a rule change without accounting for how the rule change affects the strengths and weaknesses of the players. The electoral college is beneficial to the current Republican Party.
It's not just because Republicans haven't campaigned for general election votes that they have had fewer popular votes than Democrats in 7 of the last 8 elections. The electoral college is a rule that helps Republicans. And Trump specifically. Because it increases the power of rural voters vis a vis urban voters.
It doesn't mean he definitely would have lost to Hillary, but this "presumption" that "he was just better at campaigning" and that would have translated to significantly more popular votes such that he would have won in 2016 without the electoral college is weak sauce.
How?
I have a friend who used to make that argument when we had this same discussion, and every time I responded that way, and he never had an answer. How would a national candidate "campaign differently"? Their campaigns are inherently national; when they give speeches (or tweets), those are distributed nationwide, not delivered to specific voters. Their issues — taxes, immigration, turning kids trans, war in Europe, etc. — are national issues. Sure, Trump could've (say) held more rallies in Texas and fewer in Wisconsin, but is there any reason to believe that would've made a difference in a single voter's vote? Nobody is waiting for a presidential candidate to come to town to meet him to decide whether to vote for him.
Not to mention, the margin was large. For Hillary to have won the EC in 2016 would've required convincing 70,000 specific voters. For Trump to have won the overall popular vote would've required convincing three million voters.
The main difference would be re-focussing of efforts on getting out the vote in high population states that lean heavily D or R. In NY, for example, we have mercifully few Presidential ads. All that would change if the actual vote totals mattered for the state, as opposed to the winner-takes-all system under the EC.
And that difference would be the same on both sides. There is no reason to think that would change the ratio of popular vote candidates got in a prior election. More R voters in California would go to the polls perhaps. But the same is true of D voters in Texas and, in fact, of D voters in California.
I don't think it's guaranteed that the popular vote result would be the same under popular vote only versus the electoral college, but, like David, I've never heard a plausible argument why it wouldn't likely be very similar. As he pointed out, to change the outcome of the popular vote in 2016 or 2020 would require a massive shift in the popular vote numbers. The only arguments I've heard for a change in the ratio are all based on feels.
Full reverse is a better phrase. Of all the problems in this country, the Electoral College is about as responsible for them as the hummingbirds outside my window.
I notice you didn’t bother to engage my analysis.
K_2,
You made no analysis, just an ipse dixit. I think that bernard gets is correctly. There is no point with such counterfactual speculations.
“Full stop” was the conclusion and the analysis by which I arrived at that conclusion followed. Sorry that whooshed right over your and letter salad handle’s head. For your benefit I’ll write more simply next time.
Exactly, Your "full stop" precluded any analysis.
If you want discussion, don't shut it down by proclaiming you have the inarguable answer.
But if you actually are asking now for an analysis of your indisputable proclamation ...
1. There are any number of factors which could have changed the 2016 election. Hillary could have campaigned in swing states instead of blue states. Hillary could have not called Republicans deplorables. Hillary could have been less shrillary.
2. When exactly would this Electoral College have disappeared? At the founding? How many previous elections would have changed before 2016 and changed the entire world's history?
3. If you want to change just one stupid petty little thing and assume nobody else will change in reaction, go ahead and write fiction. But the real world will react and will change.
Under the electoral college changing a few thousand votes in a few battleground states would have changed the result. Without it you’d have had to change a few million votes. So laying Trump’s victory at the doorstep of the EC is the most likely conclusion. True, lightning may have struck and he might have won without it, but the EC was the actual cause in that actual election.
If the rules were different the outcome would be different is a pointless (and sore loser) argument. If the primary rules were different maybe we'd have had different candidates. Or if we had a max age limit. Or maybe an mental competency exam.
n.b. not a Trump fan or voter. Just don't see the point of this line of reasoning. I wish neither of these candidates were the choice of their parties.
Pointing out the rules produced our current system meltdown is not a pointless exercise.
Why? Do you see the states that benefit (smaller states get more impact obviously, by design) as likely to ratify a constitutional change that would alter the circumstances in the future? And, even if you do, how can that change the past or the present?
What is the outcome of the exercise you desire? Recognition that "it isn't fair" or something? Feels entirely pointless whinging to me.
Since it’s OK to charge Ex-POTUS’s with crimes now, how about January 21, 2025 (Yeah, right, like he's going to be alive then) charging Sleepy Joe (Sleepy? after last week it should be “Comatose Joe”) with Incest of his daughter Ashley? Aren’t we supposed to “Believe the Women!”?? and Comatose Joe’s behavior around young girls doesn’t exactly make it unbelievable.
Frank “C’mon Man! what Father doesn’t shower with his teenage daughter??!!”
I mean, I know it's incoherent Frank, but where exactly would such charge be brought, with what evidence?
Eugene -
[4.] Finally, let's turn to the criminal justice system. Trump was convicted of felonies. He's being prosecuted for other felonies.
Those "convictions" are flawed, false, and corrupt.
I think the headline is a little misplaced, "Sad" seems to indicate something has changed.
As HL Mencken said 'Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.'
Sure we are in a rough patch leadershipwise, but Mencken had Woodrow Wilson and Harding back to back, a virulent racist and an incompetent womanizer, one of each party.
We will get through this.
"45" got my vote when he referred to NY Senator Chucky Schumer as a "Palestinian"
Frank
As I understand campaign finance laws, they preclude democrats from replacing Biden with anyone other than Harris unless they are willing to forego the funds already raised for Biden Harris, a figure north of $200 million. So add that to all the other imperfections in our system of self-government. But really, to blame the system is to miss the forest for the trees; every system of self-government presumes (generally) honest people of character (Publians). We tried to ensure that with the electoral college and it failed as soon as Washington decided not to run again. Nothing we have done or can do will prevent bad people from running for office, and nothing we can do will prevent voters from bonding with them. Walt Kelly provided the best and enduring explanation: https://library.osu.edu/dc/concern/generic_works/zw12z753f
The Biden-Harris campaign could apparently transfer their remaining funds to the Democrat Party: https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/taking-receipts-political-party/transfers-or-party-committees/
I have long wondered why those who refer to "the Democrat Party" think that use of nonstandard English is persuasive. Is the impulse to channel Joe McCarthy somehow irresitible?
It's quite simple: "democratic" is an adjective, just like "republican". If you don't think the adjective accurately describes the party, you won't want to use it.
It's not like "Democrat" is pejorative in any way. It just refuses to concede the accuracy of the adjective.
Aside from being a stupid argument that leans into childish petulance, how does the word democrat (which necessarily entails being democratic) have a different connotation than democratic?
The answer to that question being obvious (there is no difference), the remaining explanation is this another example of requiring people to do stupid things to signal they are members in good standing of a cult.
I encourage idiot sheep to continue signaling what sheep they are.
I think anyone who has been reading political coverage over the past several months has seen a media very concerned by Biden's age and trying to convey that through a journalistic lens.
They do not generally grant themselves the right to assert, plainly and without qualification, based on how Biden might perform during a 90-minute televised debate, that his cognitive decline has been established. They can (and do) report on his mumbling performance, his gaffes, his meandering train of thought. That much, at least, is a fair account of what is publicly-known fact.
Going further and drawing a conclusion about the president's mental abilities is not their role. That's to be left, apparently, to amateurish accounts on the VC.
Yep, we are all amateurs.
But it is also our responsibility as voters to do an assessment of the candidates capacity to do the job. And it's incumbent on us not to let the talking heads do it for us because they are all liars.
It’s the Supreme Court. Trump’s Finest Hour.
Trump I is still winning. Never give up. Never surrender.
Which VP would you like (to debate Gavin)?
I prefer governors.
As a non-American, here's how it seems to me:
1. I agree both candidates are much worse than others who are available now, or who have been selected in the past.
2. I don't trust party hierarchies much at all, but I do expect them to be good at figuring out which candidate has the best chance of winning. So Trump and Biden really are those people.
3. Media can be blamed for many things but not this. Partisanship where nearly all media clearly favours one side or the other, should make it easier to criticise their side's bad candidate because they know that fewer undecided voters are watching.
4. Seems to me the voters need to take the lion's share of the blame. If voters were more knowledgeable about history and economics, respected the kind of values and principles that make a nation successful, and paid enough attention to be able to judge candidates by their past actions not their current promises, neither of these two guys would be in the running.
Youtube has been feeding me ads the last few days from Democrat stars encouraging me to donate. Obama, Harris. Then Biden shows up on my screen, and says "Folks, I hope I made you proud on that debate stage" and asks me to donate.
Franz Kafka could not make this up. Anyone seriously think THAT message will get them donations?
As for when our political fortunes declined, it was when a certain closet Marxist decided to use his race, media fawning and out-and-out lying to "fundamentally transform" America.
Maybe the ad was recorded before the debate?
Fundamentally, the post-war era was defined by a centrist, largely trusted (and plausibly trustworthy) mass media. That's gone. But it also didn't exist for most of the history of the country. Remember all those partisan "pamphlets" you're always hearing about old-timey pundits publishing? Well we're back to that, just online.
Before we even get a chance to adapt to this new normal, AI is going to change the media landscape in really crazy ways. That's the real worry. It may become extremely hard for even media-savvy people to get a good sense of what's really going on.
Maybe, the media didn’t report on Biden’s “cognitive decline” in the “last few months” since there was no actual evidence of any?
He had a bad debate while having a cold and badly prepped. He wasn’t in a secret location before and after. People saw him in action, including in public events. Where is all the evidence?
We had the Hur report, for which there is evidence he spun things some & involved hours of conversations for which someone twenty years younger could have had some problems.
And, how about Trump? Yes, there is no reason to trust him. His multiple civil and criminal problems alone. Insurrectionist. Defamation. Financial (including his company). Sexual abuse. Campaign felonies. Pending criminal trials in three jurisdictions.
Finally, how about HIS cognitive abilities? We have regular evidence of not just his lying and ugliness. He repeatedly confuses things, doesn’t make much sense, and so on.
A major cause of “these problems” is that Trump advances the goals of the Republican Party. The base likes him & the rest is afraid of challenging him. At times they are fearful of physical threats when they do. Trump also regularly was in contempt of court & there were no real consequences.
The Supreme Court, with his nominees or supporters (Alito and Thomas), helps him with delay and more delay. Or their putrid 14A, sec. 3 opinion they both didn’t sign or even show up to hand down.
A sitting president not running again is not normal. It also is a big risk. It is especially a big risk to have someone resign from the race in the middle of an election year. But, oh no, he had a bad debate.
Why isn’t Trump being asked to step down for all of his problems?
Did the cold or the bad preparation make Joe Biden repeat the "very fine people" lie? Which one made him claim that he finally defeated Medicare? Which one made him claim no troops died on his watch, claim that the Border Patrol endorsed him, lie about the unemployment rate for Black Americans, and so on?
The Philadelphia Inquirer did say that Donald Trump is the only candidate that should drop out based on the debate. It's a hilarious amount of cope, seethe and projection.
Biden has been telling whoppers for decades, though. You can't attribute that to the dementia, he's just a liar and gaffe machine, notorious for it. Though the media treated it as an adorable quirk when HE did it, unlike Trump.
Trump has been well-treated by the media for decades.
He played the media game well.
Biden's gaffes have been a long-time thing. Quite true. Ditto his stutter and other issues with public speaking etc.
His gaffes are no secret. People have criticized them for a long time. Why? Since they are regular viewers of C-SPAN or something? No. Because the media reports them & they know that part of his public persona.
I didn't say it wasn't reported, just that it was treated as, "Oh, that's just Joe Biden.", not "Every word from his mouth is a lie, the rotten SOB!"
Yes, Trump got similar treatment from the media while they thought he was a Republican. That treatment flipped like a switch when he announced as a Democrat.
I think you switched Republican and Democrat in your comment. And I agree with you.
Donald J. Trump
political affiliations
Republican (1987–1999)
Reform (1999–2001)
Democratic (2001–2009)
Republican (2009–2011)
Independent (2011–2012)
Republican (2012-present)
Yes, bad debate prep can lead to a candidate have trouble with their talking points. Also, this comment appears to be changing the subject from his alleged decline to him lying or saying misleading things. A typical candidate issue.
"Border Patrol endorsed him"
a union for its agents endorsed a bipartisan Senate proposal that the White House negotiated with Republicans
“very fine people” lie
Washington Post responded to this and shows his " very fine people on both sides" comments. Not a lie.
Another case where President Biden spoke a basic truth but framed it in a way a better prepped candidate might have said it better.
I'm not going to continue to fact check him here. But, yes, a better prepped person could have said things better here & did a better job responding to the horror show that is Trump.
It's good to find humor in life but Trump is a felon, was found to be civilly liable for financial wrongs, defamation, and sexual abuse.
He has regularly in public events confused facts, forgotten names, talked gibberish, and more. Someone quoted some of his stuff. Cope away. Trump should resign from his candidancy.
"Washington Post responded to this and shows his ” very fine people on both sides” comments. Not a lie. "
The lie isn't that he uttered the words, "very fine people", but that he said them about Nazis, when he expressly said he wasn't saying it about them.
Snopes "found that while Trump did say there were "very fine people on both sides," meaning both the protesters and the counterprotesters, he also condemned neo-Nazis and white nationalists outright and said he was specifically referring to those who were there only to participate in the statue protest. ..."
At the time I was aware of least a dozen organized protest groups about evenly divided in removing/keeping the monuments.
In the latest Democrat treatment of Charlottesville, Trump called the neo-Nazis and white supremacists "very fine people."
At least at first they were claiming Trump equated the one side that wanted the monuments removed with the other side rhat wanted the monuments kept (limited in the media narrative to neo-Nazis and white supremacists).
Not in Charlottesville on that weekend.
The Unite the Right rally was a white supremacist gathering, meant to unite white supremacist factions. Anybody who showed up on that side and did not leave when they saw the swastikas and heard the racist, antisemitic chanting was not a very fine person. Donald Trump's claim that "you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists" was a lie.
I'm still voting for the guy who didn't try to overthrow the US government.
It's like the old saying: what do you call nine people sitting down at a table with a nazi? Ten nazis.
Yes. And note that Trump didn't just speculate about it — he didn't say, "Oh, I'm sure some of those people weren't nazis." He stated affirmatively that they were there and that he saw them. But he doesn't have access to secret feeds from the special Charlottesville spy satellite; he was watching the same news coverage the rest of us were.
Yeah, now follow that reasoning at the BLM/Antifa riots, when they were setting things on fire.
Still not a lie. Trump said it. He expressly said it not about statue-supporters in the abstract, but about the people who were at the neo-Nazi rally in favor of the statue. Who were, by definition, neo-Nazis.
"He expressly said it not about statue-supporters in the abstract, but about the people who were at the neo-Nazi rally in favor of the statue. Who were, by definition, neo-Nazis."
Holy circular reasoning, Batman!
Did Trump refer to the rally as a neo-Nazi rally?
Why don't you guys drop this dump talking point? It makes you look as dishonest as Trump.
It was one. Indisputably. Neo-nazis organized it, neo-nazis applied for the permit, neo-nazis litigated when they didn’t get the permit they wanted, and neo-nazis were there in all their regalia. There were no “Non-racist Historians For Statuary Preservation” signs there.
I reiterate my analogy from last week: if a U.S. politician had visited Moscow in the 1970s had said, “I saw some very fine people in the Soviet government. I’m not talking about the communists; they should be condemned,” you would think they were delusional or lying. Because anyone who’s neither knew that there were only communists in the Soviet government. You would not say, "Maybe he's talking about some secret other group of people that nobody knows about."
Sheesh. Even Snopes finally got around to kicking that talking point to the curb. It just took them seven years. When you're more partisan than Snopes, that's really something.
Well, Snopes said a) that he said it, and b) he was wrong about the fact that there were any non-neo-Nazi protesters.
It's fair to infer that Trump knew everyone there was a neo-Nazi and they would understand his statement as referring to them. Just like with “stand back and stand by.”
Volokh is hung up on some side issues. Trump was President for 4 years, and Biden 3.5 so far. Their policies were very different. Which did you like better? We had peace and prosperity under Trump.
Yes, Trump made some enemies. Doing good work will make enemies. He was prosecuted on some bogus charges, and that is mostly a statement about the Democrats politicizing the justice system. It is a reason to vote against Biden, and not a reason to vote against Trump.
Biden and Harris are incompetent, and everyone knows it.
That's right Roger S
Today Bannon goes into prison for some made up, fucked up, Democratic, Leftist, Libertarian, and Republican BULLSHIT Lawfare.
July 1st must be a day of Renewal.
Yes. Every time the Democrats say to vote as if democracy is at stake, I want to vote against those who used the justice system to put political enemies in jail.
You mean like Hunter Biden?
When did Hunter Biden use the justice system to put his political enemies in jail? (And as far as I know he's not running for office, so one cannot vote against him.)
Did you forget how much a sweetheart deal Hunter biden had with DOJ in the plea bargain - until the Judge put a stop to it. Even at that, the case going to trial was only the gun possession charge.
Yes, they successfully delayed most of the potential charges past the statute of limitations. You or I would have been rotting in prison for the rest of our natural lives in his place.
No such event happened, and you or I would almost certainly not have been prosecuted at all. As we've discussed, the gun charge is almost never without extra facts like straw purchases; tax charges are almost always resolved civilly.
The reason you hardly ever get a prosecution on application fraud is that it's VERY hard to prove. Hunter's case was one of the few where it was open and shut, and, yeah, in a similar situation you or I would have been prosecuted.
The only reason you or I wouldn't have been charged for the tax fraud is that you or I wouldn't have gotten the money thrown our way to need to commit tax fraud, not being related to anybody important.
And you say this based on your extensive expertise with the criminal justice system, right? No, the reason you hardly ever get a prosecution on application fraud is because without something more serious — a link to violence, or gun smuggling, or whatever — it's a trivial offense not worth an AUSA's time.
Everyone in the country cheats on their taxes.
Did you forget how much a sweetheart deal Hunter biden had with DOJ in the plea bargain – until the Judge put a stop to it.
Of course, what you actually mean is:
Did you forget how Hunter Biden agreed to a plea bargain, despite the politically motivated selective prosecution -- until the conflicted, Trump-loyal judge decided to keep on weaponizing the criminal justice system for partisan political gain, nixed the deal, and forced a trial?
Professor Volokh....
Thank you for staying focused on free speech issues for the last several years here at VC. Now more than ever, free and unfettered political speech is a must. We cannot lose our right to free speech, it is our right to free thought.
How did we get here? How did Americans become cultural nihilists? We have lost our national spirit, our ethos. The civic values that established this American Republic, have been cast aside as quaint, and archaic. What a mistake. Those civic values were the pillars holding up our national spirit.
Our politics are merely a reflection of us. We (Americans) have only to look in the mirror for blame (and accountability).
This saga shows the consequences of having political parties without leadership. Certainly in 2023, it shouldn't be a matter of "asking" Biden to step aside. His party should shove him aside, if need be. That's what the Tories did with May, Johnson, and Truss. But in US political parties there is no one in a position to intervene like that.
Everything was fine until you banned RAK's Artie-Wayne alt. Butterfly Effect. Nothing you can do about it now, so don't kick yourself.
Now join in me in prayer for the earliest possible arrival of the Sweet Meteor of Death.
I think the largest part of Trump's appeal to many supporters is largely lost on the chattering classes. He is largely perceived as being outside of the permanent political elite which is made up of both parties who are viewed as being the real problem.
I think that's right. The reason he won the nomination back in 2016 was that the GOP establishment had made being an establishment candidate radioactive for Republican voters, by decades of bait and switch tactics. The Republican voting base, or anyway a large part of it, had concluded that the only way they'd ever get what they wanted was if they could bypass the establishment.
Trump didn't come up through the establishment, and was wealthy enough to campaign without their support, and was saying the right things, so they gave him a chance.
In a normal election the establishment could have made sure Trump lost, like they usually do with challengers who beat the establishment pick in the primaries. But Trump had too much in the way of private resources for them to starve him, and the Democrats stupidly picked a candidate who was personally unlikable with a well established reputation as corrupt. Probably Hillary was the only person they could have picked that Trump could have beat with the GOP almost campaigning against him, too.
Then he takes office and visibly tries to deliver on his campaign promises, with the party establishment opposing him, and it was all over, that sealed the deal.
He almost managed to beat the establishment and a less unlikable Democrat in 2020, too.
What a wonderfully succinct description of the problem, leaving it up to the reader, to decide exactly what the problem is. Brilliant!
You left out the most obvious question.
Who is running the country?
Answer (quoting from a comment above):
"...a certain closet Marxist [who] use[d] his race, media fawning and out-and-out lying to “fundamentally transform” America"
It’s the Press
Arguably starting with Wilson and the administrative state and being enabled by 16th Amendment the Government has become very large and has a lot of power. This provides a strong incentive to do whatever it takes to get into and stay in power. I’d be curious as to what various Volokh writers think the Founding Fathers would have to say about the size and power of Government.
Trump is intellectually lazy, inarticulate, insecure, bombastic and lacks gravitas. I wish he was not the Republican nominee. I have no confidence in his foundational policy positions and think that if elected, and there was a Democrat House and Senate it is likely that Democrats could get whatever they want with a simple promise that they will recognize Trump’s “beautiful greatness” by adding his face to Mount Rushmore.
But it seems far from fair and balanced that approximativ half the country thinks: convictions were fair and impartial, there was Russian collusion, or, at least until recently, that Biden was compos mentis. Think of the difference in characterizations between the summer of riots and violence based on a false narrative of police killing unarmed blacks as mostly peaceful protesting and a rally with 10’s of thousands, where 1000’s marched to Capital, hundreds entered illegally and 10’s had evil intentions being a clear insurrection. Think of the disparagement of the authors of the Great Barrington Declaration and the vilifying of those questioning natural origin.
I have close friends and family members that are intelligent that I know are not anywhere near fully and accurately informed. It takes time. They have busy lives. They hate Trump.
The only check on the two Parties is the knowledge and understanding of the Public through the Press and unfortunately we have seen a dramatic shift to the left in the Press. My observation is that while both Parties might “lie, chest, and steal” to win, the Press, in general and by far, enable Democrats and keep Republicans in line.
Why and how? It seems that the neo-Marxist slant has become ingrained in the higher education system. Perhaps it is as simple as the ones who left campus were more capitalistic while the ones that remained were more socialistic. I don’t know.
But I do know that the lack of a free and unbuas press will ruin our country
https://babylonbee.com/news/dems-stick-with-biden-as-it-would-be-a-real-pain-to-reprint-these-ballots-they-already-filled-out
The Bee is a great satire site, but the democrats are hard at work making it a prophecy site.
Democrats? Cheating? How dare you!
"So what is the problem?"
The problem is that two enormous private organizations have literally captured virtually all of American government to use for their own purposes. The DNC & GOP have created such an absolute strangehold for themselves that it literally does not matter how awful of candidates they run, one of the two of them will win. And I honestly don't think they care all that much which one wins, because when one wins, they get power that way, and when the other one wins, they get the power of anger and dissent backing up their calls for "change".
It would require the electorate at large to practice morals and ethics.
We would be better off if only those of good moral character voted.
The problem is, any law that restricted the franchise to those of good moral character would be enforced by people, and many people would interpret “good moral character” as “vote the way I do”.
What would I have thought twenty years ago about a presidential candidate with a felony conviction and possibly more?
Felonies like murder, rape, arson, and armed robbery? Or "felonies" like Falsifying Business Records? Isn't the problem here the devaluation (for lack of a better term) of the notion of "felony" by legislators who are mostly just virtue signaling? The decline in respect for law among Americans goes back a whole lot farther than Trump and can be laid at the feet of those who want to solve every and all social problems by passing laws making government bigger and more intrusive. This is where a century of "Progressivism" has gotten us.
I think that we should always start by blaming ourselves.
We have made the task of running for US president such a horrible and abusive process that only the most narcissistic and power-hungry are willing to take it on.
If we want better candidates, we should start by treating them better.
America’s mess stems from a handful of interlocking structural, cultural and technological changes:
1) The “shift to primary elections” is a huge contributing factor, as has been the general trend for the past century towards more (and more direct) democracy. This amplifies the problem of rational voter ignorance, empowers demagogues and enfeebles all elected offices below the Presidency. It’s a tired cliche, but the United States is a republic, not a democracy. Now everyone should know why. The failure of Democratic Party elites in selecting Biden against popular will in 2020 is symptomatic of the next transformation;
2) The capture of the academy, the media and the bureaucracy by a homogenous cultural, ideological and financial cohort, transforming it into ruling oligarchy (occupying the same historical social position as the priesthood or clerisy). But even this capture would be of limited import absent the other major structural change;
3) The explosive growth of the size and power of the federal government, including most importantly the creation of a ruling administrative state. Together, this growth makes a mockery of the constitution’s mandate for a national government of limited and enumerated powers and of the principles of federalism. Such massive and all-powerful central authority supercharges the stakes for its control, injects politics into everything, and slows economic growth. But even the federal hegemon wouldn’t be such a problem absent the final technological/economic change;
4) Two back-to-back massive revolutions in technology and economics (first industrial then information) have increased the relative importance of the academy and the media to the economy. Along with the bureaucracy, all three sit outside normal and pre-existing checks and balances, both formal ones stipulated in the constitution and other governing norms and informal ones through marketplace discipline. It goes without saying that, in today’s world, all three of these institution are immune from external control and cannot fail. This gives them enormous rent-seeking power over the economy and de facto political control of the government (notwithstanding periodic spasms of ineffectual demagogic democracy, e.g., Trump).
Together, these changes leave the United States as not much different than Brazil, Italy or even Argentina. Sure, there’s a lot of ruin in a nation. It will probably take many more decades before these other nations truly become our peers. But we’ve squandered our inheritance. Once it’s gone, it’s very hard to build it back.
Politics may not be your area of expertise, Professor Volokh, but the law is. And how do you view the civil trial of Trump that resulted in half a billion dollar fine, and the criminal trial of Trump that resulted in the felony conviction? Were they fairly conducted and legally grounded cases where the same charges would have been brought against anyone NOT named Trump? If your answer to that question is NO, then it is clear voting for Trump is the only way to slow the Democrat transformation of the legal system into a vehicle to crush dissent and political opposition, something that the American Republic would not survive.
At the least, we have spent 4 years in tumult. Imagine, had the fight of 2020 not occurred, we would be looking at the end of Trump and hopefully a breath of fresh air. Instead, we have weathered 4 more years of tumult and certainly indigestion on all's parts.
Not that I have much faith in our politics. It seems none are interested in governance, merely in political stance, mostly with personality as a large aspect of it. Both personalities. Has everyone forgotten what the actual roles of our three chambers are for? A legislative branch to enact legislation (I understand 4 pieces were passed in the latest year). A Supreme Court to oversee the operations of the others and hold them in abeyance and oversight (not to see a President attempt end-runs when faced with inconvenient rulings). And an Executive that should be overseeing the operations of the administrative arm that now spans millions of employees.
We are stuck where we are for the time being. It is most likely Trump will be returning to the White House. Perhaps signaling four more years of largely impasse. When will the people come to see the need for governance as intended by the Founders rather than a continuing soap opera?
Why did the Democrats stick with Biden given his obvious frailties? I think the answer is that his role, in this term and in the next (if he gets one), is merely to serve as a pass-through mechanism for enacting the broad program of the authoritarian, progressive wing of the party. He only has to be minimally capable when propped in front of a camera or told to sign something put in front of him that he doesn't understand. It's a very low bar but it now appears that he can't even get over that.
Volokh talks about Biden’s cognitive decline, but what about Trump’s?
On Wednesday, March 1, 2020, Trump signed Presidential Proclamation #9993, which restricted travel by foreign nationals to the United States. That evening, he went on television to address the nation, but apparently couldn’t remember what was in the proclamation he had just signed.
Trump claimed that, “To keep new cases from entering our shores, we will be suspending all travel from Europe to the United States for the next 30 days. The new rules will go into effect Friday at midnight.” As a consequence, Americans who were currently in Europe attempted to get back to the United States prior to the Friday deadline. Every seat on every flight was filled. This resulted in huge crowds at New York airports, creating the perfect conditions for a superspreader event.
This is a case where Trump’s cognitive failings affected his performance as President. Volokh doesn’t point to a similar event during the Biden presidency, and I don’t think there has been one.