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Fifth Circuit Rules Against Texas SB 4 Immigration Law
In the process, the court also rejected Texas's argument that illegal migration and drug smuggling qualify as "invasion."

Earlier today, the US Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit ruled against Texas in a case where the federal government challenged the legality of the state's SB 4 immigration law. SB 4 is a new state law that criminalizes unauthorized migration, expands state law enforcement officials' powers to detain undocumented migrants, and gives Texas courts the power to order removal of migrants convicted under the law.
Today's decision is not a final ruling on the merits. Technically, all it does is uphold the district court's preliminary injunction blocking enforcement of the law until the courts reach a final decision in the case. However, one of the factors courts assess in deciding whether a preliminary injunction is warranted is "likelihood of success on the merits." And in analyzing that factor, the judges made it clear they think SB 4 is in fact illegal, and Texas deserves to lose.
Most of Chief Judge Priscilla Richman's majority opinion in the Fifth Circuit focuses on whether SB 4 is preempted by federal immigration law. For example, she concludes that the law's provisions on detention and removal conflict with federal laws granting many undocumented migrants the right to remain in the United States while they apply for asylum.
But the majority also rejected Texas's argument that the state has the power to enact SB 4 because illegal migration and cross-border drug smuggling qualify as an "invasion:"
Texas asserts that Article I, § 10 of the Constitution (the State War Clause) permits
some applications of S. B. 4. The State War Clause provides:No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
Specifically, Texas contends that, at a minimum, S. B. 4's application to transnational cartel members is a constitutionally authorized response to an "invasion."
But Texas does not demonstrate why it would be entitled to vacatur of the preliminary injunction. Constitutional text, structure, and history provide strong evidence that federal statutes addressing matters such as noncitizen entry and removal are still supreme even when the State War Clause has been triggered. Such statutes do not pertain to laying any duty of tonnage; keeping troops or ships of war in time of peace; or entering into any agreement or compact with another state or a foreign power….
Texas has not identified any authority to support its proposition that the State War Clause allows it to enact and enforce state legislation regulating immigration otherwise preempted by federal law. One would expect a contemporary commentator to have noticed such a proposition. Instead, in The Federalist No. 44, James Madison glossed over the portion of the State War Clause at issue here by writing: "The remaining particulars of this clause fall within reasonings which are either so obvious, or have been so fully developed, that they may be passed over without remark…"
Thus, we cannot say Texas has persuaded us that the State War Clause demonstrates it is likely to succeed on the merits.
Thus, the Fifth Circuit rejected Texas's Invasion Clause argument (the clause in question is also sometimes called the "State War Clause"). I think this is the right result for reasons I outlined in a recent Lawfare article, and also in my amicus brief in United States v. Abbott, another case before the Fifth Circuit, where Texas has raised the same argument.
But the Fifth Circuit's discussion of the issue is fairly brief and cursory, and doesn't always make the right points. In particular, if illegal migration really does qualify as an "invasion" that "triggers" the Invasion Clause, the text suggests a state really could "engage in war" in response - even if federal law otherwise forbade it to do so. And war powers might include the power to detain or deport citizens of the enemy nation from which the migrants came.
The Fifth Circuit is nonetheless right to conclude that Texas has "failed to provide authority to support its proposition that the State War Clause allows it to enact and enforce state legislation regulating immigration otherwise preempted by federal law." But that's because there is no good evidence indicating illegal migration or drug smuggling qualify as "invasion." The text and original meaning undermine any such notion. A state facing such issues may have various problems. But it has not been "actually invaded."
While the Fifth Circuit reached the right conclusion on the invasion questions, the District Court did a much better and more thorough job of analyzing the relevant issues.
Judge Andrew Oldham filed a lengthy dissenting opinion, most of it devoted to the preemption issues, and to the argument that SB 4 might be legal in at least some applications. But interestingly, he does not consider the "invasion" argument, except to briefly note that the district court rejected it.
For those keeping score, Chief Judge Richman is a conservative George W. Bush appointee. Judge Irma Ramirez, the other judge joining her opinion, is a recent Biden appointee. Judge Oldham is one of the most conservative judges on the Fifth Circuit, appointed by Trump.
In sum, SB 4 is likely to remain blocked for some time to come, even as litigation in the case continues. This - for the moment - concludes a saga in which the Fifth Circuit imposed a temporary "administrative stay" on the district court injunction, the Supreme Court refused to lift it, but the Fifth Circuit itself dissolved the stay within hours, leaving the injunction in place until the court could consider it further.
The Fifth Circuit has now upheld the preliminary injunction, which means the law will remain blocked until the court reaches a final decision in the case or - less likely - the injunction is lifted by the en banc Fifth Circuit or the Supreme Court.
Litigation in this case is going to continue. But today's ruling strongly suggests the Fifth Circuit - like the district court - is inclined to rule against Texas on the merits. That, too, of course, might be reviewed by the en banc Fifth Circuit or by the Supreme Court.
Meanwhile, the "invasion" issue will be before the Fifth Circuit again in United States v. Abbott, which will heard by the en banc court (with all seventeen active judges participating) in April.
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The problem could be solved by simply enforcing federal law
It is being enforced.
The INA gives broad discretion to the Secretary on how to prioritize limited funds.
Respected more in the breach than the enforcement, I think you mean. The conservative estimate is 11 million illegal migrants as of 2019, obviously many millions more since then. Only five states have larger state populations than this number.
I saw some video of that enforcement the other day when hundreds of illegals stormed the border. And taxpayers are paying for that enforcement across the country housing and subsidizing illegal aliens, with the added benefit of the violent crime. Imagine how bad it would be if the laws weren’t being “enforced.”
Imagine how great it would be if Congress provided the needed funds and authorizations for enhanced enforcement.
And amazingly Trump was able to control the border with even less funds than are currently being used, to say nothing of the additional funds requested by the Biden-Harris administration. Interesting.
... by doing illegal things like caging kids and separating families. (And even then he was never
able to control the border
.)Biden also tried to do more unilateral enforcement but the courts said no.
How did you like Obama’s “kids in cages”? And Biden enforcement? That corrupt reptile undid virtually everything President Trump did to secure the border, and basically invited the illegal surges. Try rewriting some other history, this is too recent for that game.
Trump didn’t control the border. There were fewer crossing, but nowhere near none.
If acting like a nativist authoritarian and doing awful shit is giving you what you want, maybe you aren’t actually concerned about illegals.
Randal 1 hour ago
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… by doing illegal things like caging kids and separating families. (And even then he was never able to control the border.)
Randal - the cages started with Obama - you could try to be honest
Obama built facilities for unaccompanied minors.
Trump was the performatively cruel guy who separated families and then lost the fucking paperwork.
So, basically they did the same exact stuff, except that you make excuses for Obama.
When did Obama do family separations of thousands of children? And send them off to be adopted by 'Christian' families?
So you don't understand the difference between "unaccompanied" and "separated." I see. Go back to first grade please.
If the cages had started with Obama you'd have supported Obama.
Nige displaying the same dishonesty as Sacastro and Randal -
You can rewrite history for yourself, not for anyone else.
Not sure even Congress is stupid enough to believe that the Biden regime would actual use funds consistent with the law and enforce border security when he hasn’t up to this date. In fact, his regime has outright lied about it, see Mayorkas.
Biden's already maxing out the immigrant detention capacity Congress has funded. He would absolutely use more if Congress choked it up. We all know the only reason they haven't is because Trump would prefer the problem remain unsolved for political reasons.
I’m sure he’d like limitless funds, not to secure the border or follow the law, but to settle and replace the populations he doesn’t see as political allies. Chartering flights ain’t cheap.
Randal 1 hour ago
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"Biden’s already maxing out the immigrant detention capacity Congress has funded"
Randal - Try to be a little more honest
No need to worry about the detention capacity if you dont allow the illegal aliens to cross in the first place.
So then Trump was also soft on the borders. Why are you being so dishonest as to blame only Biden?
Don't allow them to cross by doing what, drowning them? Shooting them? Waving a staff around and shouting "You shall not pass?"
Your magical thinking doesn't translate into effective border control policies. Laws passed by Congress translate into effective border control policies.
Randal - laws passed by congress only translate into effective border control policies if the executive branch actually enforces those laws.
Actual effort to enforce those laws ceased with the biden administration - at least with a serious effort.
That's just a weird talking point that someone in MAGA came up with. It's not true at all. The laws are being completely enforced. It's all in your head.
Do you have any actual examples of lack of enforcement?
Randal - another stupid and dishonest comment
Most objective and honest people would consider the 3m illegal border crossings as examples of the lack of enforcement.
Most objective and honest people would consider blocking efforts to control the border active participation in preventing the enforcement of immigration laws.
That's all you've got? By those measures, the immigration laws have never been enforced under any president in the history of the country.
Trump administration was significantly better at controlling the border with less funds. Image that.
The reality is that the Biden administration isnt really trying.
It's not trying to violate as many human rights. Some, but not as many.
It's weird how the solution to every failure of government involves giving them more power and more funding.
What does the government get when they solve problems and are no longer needed?
They lose power and funding.
The government excels at creating problems or causing harm and then capturing demographics creating dependency classes with the promise of solving the problem they caused to begin with. Solutions which never arrive because they never have enough money.
It's a neat trick.
Hey, if you want less power and less funding for the border, you go ahead and argue for it!
Points to Riva: show me on the doll where the immigrant hurt you.
That’s funny. Try that joke on the families whose loved ones have been murdered you classless punk.
He's a classless punk.
You're a worthless bigot.
This blog attracts an interesting collection of people.
Look in the mirror!
Sacastro are you dealing with a new definition of enforcement – 3 to 4 x increase on border crossing.
Odd that the prior administration was reasonably able to enforce the border with even less limited funds ?
Can you give a better explanation without embarrassing yourself with partisan BS
You have named no law getting broken.
All of them.
Sacastro – Your question is utterly stupid. No wonder you have such a bad reputation.
Laws such entering the country without passport or visa
laws such required non citizen to cross the border and designated points of entry.
'The problem could be solved by simply enforcing federal law'
So what laws is Biden not enforcing?
Because discretion is a thing in the INA, and illegals are getting deported. Just not quite so many as you would like, and with less cruelty.
Brett and Sonja just told - quit being dense
Uh… the density lies with you and Sonja. You do realize that passports and visas are still required to enter the United States, even under Biden. You still have to cross the border at designated points of entry. All of that is being enforced.
What kind of stupid shit are they brainwashing you with on Fox these days??? This is just really dumb.
the density lies with you and Sonja.
The lies are dense with Randy.
Ah yes doing your 'whip through the thread and just post insults' thing.
You have shown you can engage, which makes your laziness when you choose just to vent your spleen all the more evident.
Vinniusmc's comment deals specifically with both you and Randal's disregard for the actual facts.
Both of you have made utterly stupid comments claiming the immigration laws are being enforced and also asking what laws are not being enforced. Those comments are completely stupid given the extremely well known facts
SarcASStr0, no, I will still not be unmuting you to see what kind of drivel you've decided to post. Feel free to give Randy a reacharound while he moans about Fox news.
Joe, just saying 'you're stupid' and 'given the extremely well known facts' does not establish or argue anything.
More than anyone else, you lean on intensifiers like 'clearly' and 'everybody knows' as though that provides any authority for your ipse dixit.
That wouldn't fly in any real-life conversation, why would you think it'd work here?
Randal 6 hours ago
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Uh… the density lies with you and Sonja. You do realize that passports and visas are still required to enter the United States, even under Biden. You still have to cross the border at designated points of entry. All of that is being enforced.
What kind of stupid shit are they brainwashing you with on Fox these days??? This is just really dumb.
Randal - I am reposting you comments to demonstrate how you are being dishonest in this discussion.
1) yes visas and passports are required to enter the US and non citizens are required to cross the border at designated check points.
Yet the 3million illegal aliens are not crossing at designated check points nor do the have visas or passports.
Yet you dishonestly claim the law is being enforced.
You have missed the thread of the conversation utterly.
'The problem could be solved by simply enforcing federal law' is the OP.
What laws is the Biden administration not enforcing? Especially what laws that the Trump admin did enforce?
Because you have no idea. None of you have bothered to dive into the Immigration and Naturalization Act.
Sacastro - You know damn good and well which immigration laws are not being enforced. Its in the news everyday.
Virtually every law in US Title 8.
You know damn good and well which immigration laws are not being enforced. Its in the
Foxnews everyday.
Virtually every law in US Title 8.
Hahaha ha huh ok you lose.
War IS peace!
If its okay for drug cartel members to go whereever they please or at least no big deal according to Somin why does he give the Jan 6th protestors so much guff? After all they were 'going where they pleased' on Jan 6th and unlike the cartel members they actually were let in (directly) by government officers. Doesn't seem very open borders to me.
Analogies, how do they work?
Maybe you'll find out someday. Google is your friend.
Unlike some of the people here, I went to college. There I learned that the strength of an analogy depends on the similarity of the two things being compared. So in this example we have a) drug cartel members going wherever they please in the whole of the United States [presumably after sneaking into the U.S.] and b) Jan 6th protestors 'going where they please' inside the US Capitol whilst interrupting a joint session of Congress to stop the peaceful transfer of power from one executive to the next.
Totally the same thing.
oh no how's josh taking it is he crying
A foreign organization seizing and holding American territory long term terrorizing and killing tons of people and importing in drugs. = not an invasion. Not a concern
A bunch of people being let into a building one day = An insurrection like the Civil War. The greatest threat to humankind in the herstory of the multiverse. OCD about it on the front page of every newspaper/blog/and website every day for millenia.
I guess we’re going with the whatever I feel like definitions today.
Organization?
Drug cartels set up bases on US soil. An island for example was recently used as a base and there have been fighting and militarized organized units. (this isn’t just pot shots between random thugs and the local police) and apparently that isn’t worth noticing.
An island in the US?
Or is this just Mau-Mauing.
Because I don't think any part of the US is in danger of being taken over by Mexican drug cartels.
Sarcastro
The residents of los angeles beg to differ
Mexican Mafia
Sureños
18th Street gang
38th Street gang
The Avenues
Armenian Power
Azusa 13
Barriox13
Culver City Boys 13
El Monte Flores 13
Florencia 13
Logan Heights Gang
MS-13
OVS
Playboys
Puente 13
Rancho San Pedro Locos
Santa Monica 13
Temple Street
Toonerville Rifa 13
Varrio Nuevo Estrada
Venice 13
Vineland Boys Gang
Westside Loc
Because I don’t think any part of the US is in danger of being taken over by Mexican drug cartels.
The residents of los angeles beg to differ
Are you saying Los Angeles has been conquered by a foreign power?
Or are you just an insane Internet nut?
Having recently been to Los Angeles I have my guess.
Strong point, all these names mean that LA has been taken over by Mexican gangs.
Just waggling your fingers and saying 'Mexicans! Drugs! Ooga booga' doesn't really cut it with most of us.
‘Just waggling your fingers and saying ‘Mexicans! Drugs! Ooga booga’ doesn’t really cut it with most of us’.
That’s an empirical claim about blog commenters here, one for which you present no data, and for which there are good reasons to doubt your stance.
Regardless, it’s colonisation and you’re a traitor.
Sounds quite right. J6 was as much of an insurrection as illegal immigration is an invasion. We don't do ourselves any favors by setting hair triggers on these concepts.
I wanted to believe this at first, but every definition of “insurrection” I could find covered January 6. It’s not a question of choosing between competing definitions, it simply was an insurrection by any definition.
(You could argue that it’s not an insurrection in the context of the 14th Amendment even though it is one colloquially… but no one seems to be arguing that.)
With “invasion,” the opposite is true. No definitions* of “invasion” apply, because they all require there to be an opposing force, absent in this case. For example, from Cambridge, the dictionary I find to be the best all around:
invasion: an occasion when an army or country uses force to enter and take control of another country
* Unlike “insurrection,” there are multiple meanings of “invasion” which of course have their own definitions, such as “an invasion of privacy” or “the annual invasion of mosquitos.” But it’s clear which meaning of “invasion” we’re talking about here.
Randal, I doubt there is a single definition insurrection that when applied to J6 also doesn't apply every single protest that disrupted a Congressional session.
Sure there is. Again, Cambridge:
insurrection: an organized attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their country, usually by violence
The violence helps, but the key is the goal:
take control of their country
. Simply disrupting Congress isn’t enough. January 6 was motivated by a desire todefeat
the peaceful transition of power to the next duly elected president. Using, notably, violence.Which is precisely why January 6th wasn’t an invasion: there was zero effort to defeat a government, let alone an attempt to take control—certainly not by one group of mostly unarmed people entering one building that houses part of one branch of government.
You’re not just a liar, Randy; you’re a bad person.
Why’d you become an academic? You’re not interested in the truth at all. Was it the lifestyle? Status? Was it ressentiment for your social-moral status in America given your evolutionarily-dead-end sex drive?
The Jan 6ers were trying to delay election certification. People who are really trying to overthrow a government, or take control of it use guns, not flagpoles and bear spray.
Maybe that's why no one involved in Jan 6 was even charged with insurrection.
If Jan 6 was an insurrection, then so was any protest that disrupted Congress. Code Pink used to do it religiously during the Bush years. During the Trump years, there were these clowns:
https://www.npr.org/2018/09/08/645497667/the-resistance-at-the-kavanaugh-hearings-more-than-200-arrests
No, they weren't trying to "delay" election certification, as if they were fine with Biden's election but they just wanted it to be official on January 7 instead of January 6. They were trying to thwart it. Those that wanted delay wanted it for the purpose of stopping Biden's certification entirely. Some wanted to, you know, hang Mike Pence. Others wanted to kill Pelosi or others. Others hoped to intimidate Pence into throwing out the election results and installing Trump. Others wanted delay so they could pressure state legislatures to throw out election results and install Trump.
How does one stop entirely by merely delaying? How could one day's effort establish your claim?
Why do you hate the truth?
Wow you’ve gotten lazy. Anyone reading this will see that.
Anyone reading this will also see how dumb of a point you and John are making. Let’s see…
According to John and Left…
People got mad and broke into the capitol because they wanted Biden’s electoral vote count to take place on a Thursday rather than a Wednesday.
According to DMN…
People got mad and broke into the capitol because they wanted Trump to be president instead of Biden.
I’m pretty sure even the most casual reader will know which of you
hate the truth
.Liar. I merely pointed out the incoherence of DN’s point. DN wrote ‘Those that wanted delay wanted it for the purpose of stopping Biden’s certification entirely’. HOW can that be done with one’s day’s riot in one building? Was there a plan for them to return the next day? Was there the plan, or possibility, of ensuring it couldn’t ever be done by undertaking certain actions on January 6th? Is there ANY evidence of that whatsoever? Look at DN’s claims for attempted murder, etc. There’s NO evidence of that, and no one’s been charged with that. Nor could any efforts to pressure state legislatures be done by rioting in the federal congress building.
You don’t belong in a university, Randy. Why’d you become an academic since you’re uninterested in the truth? Did you just think it was a great place to propagandize from?
Was there the plan, or possibility, of ensuring it couldn’t ever be done by undertaking certain actions on January 6th?
Absolutely. If they had succeeded in killing Pence, or even causing him to disappear in to hiding, the vote count probably wouldn’t be able to proceed until Trump named a new VP. All kinds of things might have happened at that point. What if he just kept the position open indefinitely? What if he nominated someone based on their willingness to declare him president? There’s all kinds of ways it could’ve played out.
They were trying to delay it to allow time for an investigation to prove the election was fraudulent (in their view).
If they were really trying to kill Pence, kill Congress, and overthrow the government, they would have used guns, not flagpoles and bear spray.
They were trying to delay it to allow time for an investigation to prove the election was fraudulent
Exactly. Not to find out if the election was fraudulent -- that had already been done. By demanding another investigation to come up with a different, foregone conclusion that the election was fraudulent, they weren't really demanding an investigation at all. They were demanding that Trump be installed as president. That's an attempt
to take control of their country
.'By demanding another investigation to come up with a different, foregone conclusion that the election was fraudulent, they weren’t really demanding an investigation at all. They were demanding that Trump be installed as president. That’s an attempt to take control of their country'.
The last sentence is, at best, a non sequitur. It’s certainly a false characterisation of the two sentences preceding it.
Why are you so keen on lying all the time. Do the Koch brothers just pay you to lie all the time? Is your real job just to spin and gaslight?
Not even the people on your side take you seriously anymore. This post is a good example of why. Replacing the legitimate head of state / principal executive with an imposter of your choosing is the canonical example of taking control of a country. What are you even talking about?
Also, it's Koch brother; bot is five years out of date.
I guess you fail to recognize that the multitude of military age illegals can constitute an “ opposing force,” if we must use those terms. And as an aside, every definition of “insurrection” you could find? On some woke retarded AI search engine no doubt. Name an insurrection in all of history where the majority were invited in, walked between ropes, and left peacefully? When in history did such an “insurrection” overthrow or attempt to overthrow a government?
This is where disdain for standard English, coupled with substandard education, handicaps conservatives in a debate.
Isn’t English racist? Let alone “standard English.” You sound pretty white supremacy if not downright fascist.
The irony, of course, is that every American state give the children of illegals sub-par educations, whilst your progressives already disdain teaching grammar to the citizens in public schools. You are a champion for the complete dumbing down and ruination of the language.
Don't worry too much about it, though, AIDS. You're on the cusp of demographic collapse and your empire is crumbling. Your American betters will also undoubtedly have a good go at you and your family before then.
Fuck yeah give me that military age shit.
Twisting the truth so you can justify authoritarianism.
A lot of projection going on here. Censorship, lawfare, FBI raids. The only authoritarians are on the left. Pretty much always are, historically speaking.
You ever notice how you have trouble staying on topic because you keep getting owned?
Getting owned? By that stunningly brilliant retort “Fuck yeah give me that military age shit.”? When you sober up maybe you’ll see that's not all that clever. And change the topic? I think I was responding to the obnoxious a-hole who wrote “Twisting the truth so you can justify authoritarianism.”
Would you ever say 'you got owned' to a Black American?
Good point. Racist too. Brings him up a notch on the a-hole meter.
Military age lol. The January 6 insurrectionists were military age, let's give them military tribunals in Guantanamo.
I figure Guantanamo is where Trump will be incarcerated . . . why put him in proximity with fellow criminal conspirators?
Texas just drew a bad panel of judges on appeal. The dissent had the better argument. The plaintiffs did not show that the Texas law was unconstitutional and did not show any harm. The trial judge decided the matter on hypotheticals not on any actual injury the plaintiffs had or ever could suffer.
Now do preemption and supremacy clause.
Ok, but I’ll let the dissent do it:
Alien registration is of course an exclusively federal prerogative. See Arizona v. United States, 567 U.S. 387, 400–03 (2012); Hines v. Davidowitz, 312 U.S. 52, 74 (1941). But S.B. 4 does not have anything to do with alien registration. And it is hard to see how every application of every provision of S.B. 4 interferes with some other purportedly “exclusive” aspect of the Federal Government’s power over immigration. One provision of the bill merely criminalizes something Congress already criminalized in the Immigration and Nationality Act (“INA”). Compare Tex. Penal Code § 51.02(a), with 8 U.S.C. § 1325(a). And that provision applies only to aliens whom Congress has deemed statutorily inadmissible. See 8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(6). It is a mystery how the majority can hold that two materially identical provisions can “conflict” in every single one of their imaginable applications.
The majority makes a much better case:
Moreover, no conflict is required for SB 4 to be preempted under Arizona v. United States:
Uh huh, "But S.B. 4 does not have anything to do with alien registration. And it is hard to see how every application of every provision of S.B. 4 interferes with some other purportedly “exclusive” aspect of the Federal Government’s power over immigration."
You don't think immigration (the entry, admission and removal of noncitizens) is exclusively a federal power? I do.
And again, field preemption does not require every application of SB 4 to interfere with immigration ("Where Congress occupies an entire field, [...] complementary state regulation is impermissible").
I think this case has nothing to do with alien registration, the issue underlying the field preemption you mention; and there is no conflict with respect to the Texas law, unless you can explain how "two materially identical provisions can 'conflict' in every single one of their imaginable applications."
Alien registration wasn't the issue underlying field preemption in Arizona. It was the example of field preemption presented in that case. Do you think immigration (the entry, admission and removal of noncitizens) is exclusively a federal power? If "yes," then field preemption applies in this case too. If "no," then field preemption does not apply. But, you need to answer the question for the analysis to proceed.
And FFS. How many times do I have to say that under field preemption, a state's materially identical provision is preempted even though there is no conflict.
You can have all the tantrums you like, the fact is there is no alien registration at issue here. The cases are distinguishable on that issue and that aspect of preemption.
If you are arguing the cases are distinguishable, then you are arguing immigration (the entry, admission and removal of noncitizens) is not an exclusive federal power.
Distinguishable on the issue of alien registration. This case has nothing to do with alien registration. The Texas law is not the Arizona law.
From the dissent:
The implication being that immigration (the entry, admission and removal of noncitizens) is not field preempted because it is not an exclusively federal prerogative.
You've got to remember that Riva is the dumbass who cited a case that expressly said that a former president has civil immunity, but that criminal immunity is entirely different, as his only support for the claim that a former president has criminal immunity.
This from a guy who wouldn’t know a separation of powers issue if it swam up and bit him on the ass.
'You don’t think immigration (the entry, admission and removal of noncitizens) is exclusively a federal power? I do'.
Why'd no one successfully challenge the so-called 'sanctuary cities'?
Because "sanctuary cities" do not engage in immigration enforcement, and therefore there's nothing to preempt.
Yes, yes they do. One could even say they traffic in illegals. But feel free to ignore reality like you ignore the law and constitution.
No, no, they don't. All "sanctuary city" means is that the city does not voluntarily assist the federal government with immigration enforcement. (Under Printz, they cannot be forced to do so.)
One could say "Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe," and it would have just as much intellectual content. But I guess someone who doesn't understand that there is no "separation of powers" that protects a former president from the actual president wouldn't know the meaning of "traffic," either.
it would have just as much intellectual content
Quite a bit more intellectual content in fact, being the most celebrated verse of its kind ever written, even more so than "I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob."
The Texas law isn't contrary to any federal law, therefore the Supremacy clause doesn't apply.
The only thing contrary is the federal government's active decision not to enforce federal law -
Even Brett has finally stopped telling this lie. (At least, he’s admitted that the Supreme Court settled the matter and he’s just butthurt about it.)
Not sure I understand you. Perhaps you can answer the dissent’s question, how is it that materially identical provisions can “conflict” in every single one of their imaginable applications?
I’m referring to Joe’s lie:
the federal government's active decision not to enforce federal law
I agree that was a bit of a non-sequitur on Joe's part so I can answer your question anyway: see Josh R above re field preemption.
Nope not even close to an answer, see me above re alien registration.
You both agree that alien registration is field preempted. Josh is suggesting that border control is also field preempted. You seem determined to ignore that possibility. Do you think border control is field preempted or not?
Hint: it is.
Hint: No preemption, no conflict with the Texas Law.
Hint: you don't grasp the concept of field preemption. When it is in play, "conflict" doesn't matter. Texas could enact federal law word-for-word and it would be preempted.
Not actually willing to accept your reading of any case given your gross misunderstanding of other precedent related to the separation of powers.
Joe's comment is not a lie - though a better description would be the DHS active decision to do a half arse effort to enforce immigration law.
Its only a matter of degree. No one can legitimately argue that the Biden is making anything close to an reasonable effort to enforce the law.
I argue Biden is making the maximal effort to enforce immigration law. He tried to enforce it harder but the courts stopped him. Trump had the "benefit" of COVID which provided him with emergency measures. (Prior to that, we was doing a bunch of illegal things.)
You need to give an example of how Biden could enforce immigration law even more, legally. He asked Congress for more powers, including more emergency powers, but Trump said no. That's on Trump.
'I argue Biden is making the maximal effort to enforce immigration law'.
Do you get sexual pleasure from lying?
Randal - tell us what part of the Texas law actually conflicts with Federal law
A new Brettlaw interpretation of the Supremacy Clause.
You wont like it if the court stops treating regulations as laws.
Just because Richman was appointed by GWB doesn't mean much on immigration issues. I like GWB but he was squishy on immigration.
but "he kept us safe"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (HT Jeb!)
Squishy? He tried to push through amnesty. Beyond squishy.
You guys are going to find yourselves alienated not only from mainstream thinking and society but, increasingly, also alienated from many Republicans (the reasoning, non-bigoted, educated, modern Republicans in particular).
You may be right, if that reptile in the WH gets another term I'm sure we can expect far more harsh and creative authoritarianism.
Nope, the mainstream is heading in this way---finally---across most of the West.
What's fascinating, and is being picked up by social scientists, is the gender splits on this issue.
Ideologically, the left will be confronted with the contradiction of championing labour, social justice, unions, cognisance of the increased divide between rich and poor, and labour laws on the one hand, whilst simultaneously championing mass immigration and the exploitation of illegal labourers. It will either break them, or, more likely, be USED to break them. When their whole exploitation of illegals and betrayal of the working class is seen to ITSELF be bigoted, they will pivot.
Your superficial ideology isn't real knowledge, AIDS. Get a real education. Choose science and real social science. Don't just cloak yourself in an ideology that CLAIMS to identify with, and be predicated upon, science.
Showing that brilliant legal acumen that led you to conclude that the constitution says that the president can murder his opponents with impunity, you claim that one of the most conservative judges in the country, Richman, combined with one of the Trumpiest judges, Oldham, is a "bad panel."
I think the State War Clause could potentially come into play in modern times. For example, suppose a large armed Mexican gang crossed the border and started looting a Texas town. Groups other than a state can engage in sufficiently warlike acts with sufficient force to constitute an invasion and entitle Texas to respond with military force. And we all know it’s definitely happened. New York would have been entitled to invoke the clause in the immedate aftermath of 9/11, for example to declare martial law in the area. 9/11 was an invasion. An armed group entered the country to engage in unquestionably warlike acts.
But civilians coming seeking entry and smugglers seeking to evade taxes and contriband laws simply aren’t engaging in warlike acts. Being illegal under civil law does not make an act warlike. And invasions, in the constitutional sense, require warlike acts.
Personally, I agree with the statement in Federalist 44: common sense dictates what an invasion is: common sense says we are being invaded. If not, there should be no quibble when the very same non-invaders are positioned in a ring around the courthouse.
Common sense!
Judge Andrew Oldham is a fringe culture war casualty.
If you wanted to know something about law (other than the law of the Confederacy or maybe the pre-color television South), Judge Oldham isn't even the first Andrew Oldham worthy of consultation.
You can predict the outcome of 99.99% of state vs federal court fights just by knowing that federal judges are nominated and confirmed by federal office holders.
"No man should be the judge in his own case."; It's not that much better to get to appoint the judge in your own case.
This is, of course, not true.
But the actual law of federalism, it's doctrine and cases? That isn't really your bag. You are less and less interested in the actual law these days. You just feel it to be true, and so act like you've learned it somewhere.
You haven't. You could look it up. But you won't.
Of course it's true. Take the Court's revolution with Heller, McDonald, Bruen. How many federal laws have they struck down?
Zip, zero, nada. Even if they overturn the bump stock ban, they won't say the feds couldn't ban bump stocks, just that they didn't check the right boxes in doing it.
No new goalposts. You weren’t talking about guns, or about just the Supreme Court.
You made a statement about about *all* federalism-based cases in *all federal courts*. ("You can predict the outcome of 99.99% of state vs federal court fights...")
Those are utterly different scopes. Not hard to see why you’re trying to scale down your sweeping bullshit above, except you’re trying to post through it.
In Heller, McDonald, and Bruen, the Court struck down state or local laws -- not because the feds had different, conflicting laws, but because of the Second Amendment, as the Court understood it. There was no conflict between federal and state power to resolve. That the courts haven't yet struck down federal laws means nothing as far as the respective powers of the state and federal governments are concerned. There are no suits out there claiming a conflict between state and federal power to control firearms, just suits saying : "the feds can't do this" or "the state of X can't do this" because of the Second Amendment.
States win cases against federal assertions of power all the time. Look at the Court's 11th Amendment jurisprudence. Would the judiciary that you imagine ever hold that states can't be sued for age discrimination, for example?
‘You are less and less interested in the actual law these days’.
On an almost daily basis you actively cheerlead for the subversion of immigration law. You also offer regular apologies for the systematic abuses of power by the regime. By any civilised Western country, you’d be considered a subversive. You care ONLY about achieving social results that conform with your ideology, and not at all about the law or the rule of law.
You’re a joke. You’re helping to make your country a joke. Go back to Russia since you obviously prefer banana republics.
Has Somin abandoned his own fringe theory that the federal government has no legal authority to regulate immigration? If the federal government has no such power, rather obviously, it cannot "preempt" state law in the area. Somin never answers the question, "If the federal government lacks the power to restrict immigration, then who does possess that power?" Presumably, his answer is "no one", though the Tenth Amendment would suggest the answer would be "the states". Though Somin doesn't seem to care what legal justification is used, so long as the borders remain wide open and immigration unchecked.
The president of Mexico is demanding Biden pay him $20 billion a year to stem this don't-call-it-an-invasion across our Southern border, essentially a demand for tribute reminiscent of the Barbary pirates. Will Biden pay the Danegeld? Being the living embodiment of impotent weakness, one suspects he will.
"We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost!"
Sure, Somin supports a free-flow of immigrants, but I seriously doubt he opposes all federal regulation. For example, I suspect he has no objection to kicking out immigrants who have been convicted of murder in their home countries.
But even if he supports no regulation, that is his policy preference. No way is he arguing the Constitution legally requires that policy.
"No way is he arguing the Constitution legally requires that policy."
Way.
Wow! That is mightily effed up.
I now have to admit Wolf has a point. Somin is quick to argue illegal immigration isn't an invasion, but he never discusses preemption.
"If the federal government has no such power, rather obviously, it cannot “preempt” state law in the area."
More than that, much more: If the federal government has no such power, the Tenth amendment kicks in, since nothing in the Constitution says states can't exercise it. It becomes a reserved power for the states.
... which Ilya himself says in that paper.
I think you guys are taking this academic thought experiment way too seriously. It's not at all uncommon to hold beliefs like this. For example, I believe we should replace welfare and unemployment with UBI. But that doesn't mean I'm against welfare and unemployment, given that we don't have UBI.
Similarly, Ilya thinks the original intent of the Constitution didn't provide immigration powers to the federal government. That doesn't mean he's against preemption, given that the federal government does have immigration powers.
One of Somin's favorite rhetorical devices is to accuse everyone of hypocrisy except himself. THEY maintain unprincipled, inconsistent positions on an issue, while he remains principled and consistent.
The federal government, by which I mean the Biden administration, is currently simply refusing to enforce immigration law, in the grossest dereliction of Presidential duty in the history of this country. The states, in a position of desperation, are trying to do anything they can to alleviate this nightmare, but are stymied at every turn by the Biden administration and the courts. In this situation, Somin defends the exclusive power of the federal government to (not) enforce the law.
However, when the situation is reversed, as it was during the Trump administration, and the federal government is actually attempting to enforce immigration law, while state and local governments actively undermine the federal government in its enforcement efforts, Somin will argue that the federal government has no power to enforce immigration law, while defending the rights of the states to resist enforcement.
In sum, he has no legal principles on the issue beyond accepting and adopting whichever legal position achieves his preferred policy of an open border at any given time or situation.
The federal government, by which I mean the Biden administration, is currently simply refusing to enforce immigration law
Man... you too? How do I get on this MAGA lies aka talking points mailing list?
"MAGA lies". LOL. Only the really fringe leftists are still in that stage of reality denial. But who are you going to believe: Democrat party press releases or your own lyin' eyes?
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
FD Wolf: why on earth do, or should, you assume that Randy is a sincere, honest interlocutor?
You're just some sort of foreign provocateur. Your credibility is deep in negative territory.
And, somehow, your credibility is still worse.
I’m still waiting for anyone to explain which immigration laws aren’t being enforced.
Obviously, they all are, or someone would be able to point to one that isn’t.
As I mentioned, Brett used to tell this lie, but he fessed up that really he just disagrees with the Supreme Court on the subject. Is that where you’re at as well? You just think the extremely conservative Supreme Court got it wrong?
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears.
What, the fuck, are you talking about? Are you talking about what your eyes and ears... saw and heard on Fox News? That's more retarded than usual!
"Fox News, Fox News. I'm too stupid to make a real argument Thanks DNC for arranging my talking points." -Randy
"I’m still waiting for anyone to explain which immigration laws aren’t being enforced."
Are you serious?
For just one example among many, in 2021, DHS secretary Mayorkas openly told ICE that they needed several levels of approval to deport anyone who wasn’t either convicted criminal or had just been apprehended at the border. So in other words, as long as you haven’t been convicted of a crime, and make it into the interior of the country, you’re home free.
And of course there’s openly allowing bogus asylum claims made in bad faith, destroying border barriers, cutting the wire to allow illegal immigrants in, enforcing vaccination requirements on regular travelers but not on border migrants (which is also a violation of the equal protection clause), and then there is DACA….
several levels of approval
doesn't equate tohome free
.But it doesn't matter. Even if none of that is lies or exaggerations -- doubtful -- it all sounds like enforcement activity to me. You just don't like how Biden is enforcing the laws. Ok fine. But he's enforcing them. If you want to change the law to require the style of enforcement you'd prefer, go right ahead. You had the opportunity but Trump scuttled it for perceived political gain. The reason we don't have better immigration laws on the books today is 100% Trump's fault.
You're moving the goalposts. You asked for proof that immigration laws weren't being enforced. I gave that proof. Then you pivot to "you just don't like how they are being enforced". If the way you enforce the law is NOT to enforce it, then yeah of course I don't like it.
And the current problem is 100% Trump's fault? Must be nice to live in such a fact free world. Nothing at all to do with the hundred executive orders that Biden signed to roll back all the progress Trump made? Plus, we don't need new laws to handle immigration. We just need to enforce the ones we have. That was abundantly clear when Trump got the border under control without passing new legislation.
IIRC, he does believe that the Constitution gives the country no power to regulate immigration, but acknowledges that this is not an official view or the current precedent so it wouldn't apply to any of these cases.
I know this Fifth Circuit decision saddens Volokh Conspiracy fans, but look at the bright side for Republicans, Federalist Society members, and conservatives in the context of recent developments involving immigration -- the workers presumed to have died in the Key Bridge collapse reportedly were non-white immigrants!
Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland : ” … the workers presumed to have died in the Key Bridge collapse reportedly were non-white immigrants!”
Something sure to warm the cockles of a Right-winger’s heart. On the other hand, I hear MAGA-world is already convinced the ship lost power because someone somewhere had to give a job to a lesser black woman (or something else DEI-like).
Lord above, doesn’t race rot their poor brains out! You only need look at the freak next comment down….
My MAGA sources are speculating about sabotage of the ship's controls by a foreign power, not the identity of the domestic employees.
To be fair, they've also blamed the "DEI" mayor of Baltimore and the gay Secretary of Transportation. And the nuttier ones have insinuated that his Taiwanese-American predecessor must have been somehow involved.
Saying TDS sent you over the deep end would be an understatement. You're in so deep the Mariana Trench is jealous.
These are the low-lifes the Volokh Conspirators want better Americans to respect and accept — in the American Bar Association, on the faculties and in the classrooms of strong law schools, on university campuses, in public office, and at the modern American marketplace of ideas.
Delusional, disaffected, antisocial, bigoted, un-American dumbasses. The kind of people the right-wing law professors at this white, male, faux libertarian blog endorse for public office.
Artie! Mr Gray box! Guess what? Choke on your own "betterness". KKKlinger.
You realize the ship was being driven by an immigrant?
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4560409-judge-rules-john-eastman-should-be-disbarred-over-efforts-to-overturn-2020-election/
For some bizarre reason, every Jan 6 or Trump election or otherwise court case ends up before a female, black, Jewish or Hispanic judge, and in this case, a female black judge.
Trump, and everyone associated with him, as a constitutional right under the Due Process Clause to have their cases heard before white, non-Jewish man. Although Jews are not really white so I guess that's redundant.
(emphasis added) What's truly bizarre is your detachment from reality-based facts, and your propensity to make sweeping statements that are trivially proven false.
The opening line of this 3d Cir. opinion on Trump's false election claims and flawed legal claims:
"BIBAS, Circuit Judge.
Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here."
Now, I knew Stephanos Bibas when he was a law prof at the Univ Iowa College of Law and I was a mere student looking for advice on how to get a clerkship (his advice was quite good). I assure you he is absosmurfly none of "female, black, Jewish or Hispanic" (being male, white, and some flavor of Catholic/Orthodox Christianity). Feel free to google him.
The opinion is one long bench-slap by a Trump-appointed, conservative, Federalist Society lifer. Read the whole thing if you have the intestinal fortitude to withstand the head-exploding truthiness of a law-and-order actual conservative ruthlessly dismembering Guiliani and Trump's lies about the 2020 election.
But I bet you won't.
Greeks are not white. They have their olive tinge because they inbred with North Africans over the years.
But yours is a stupid point though, because we're not talking about the challenge cases, but the random Trump cases.
'Greeks are not white. They have their olive tinge because they inbred with North Africans over the years.'
Centuries of Turkish rape. Greeks I know themselves (correctly or otherwise regularly state 'we didn't used to look like this!'.
Let's not forget Georgia judge Scott McAfee, presiding over Fulton County's prosecution of Trump. He's white, male, non-Hispanic, and, I suspect — since I've never seen him at any of the cabal meetings — not Jewish.
As far as I an tell, Prof Somin hasn't said anything about the recent viral video of migrants forcibly rushing the border. It might be good to address that. As unenlightened as they may be, most Americans watching that video would probably call it an "invasion".
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2024/03/21/migrant-rush-texas-border-lavandera-lead-vpx.cnn
Perhaps aside from some violence, it's not an invasion for conquering, or raiding an enemy as part of an ongoing military conflict.
It is, though, an invasion in the historical sense of mass migration, of the type observed over centuries.
I am somewhat shocked to see a correct decision coming from the 5th Circuit.
Of course, I have to point out that Judge Oldham (the dissenter) is also the judge who helped give us Sambrano v. United Airlines, the case that I still have nightmares about, in the sense that I can't imagine litigating that issue ... one that was arguably sanctionable if you didn't explicitly say that you were asking for a modification of reversal of existing law, and having a court rule like that.
The Fifth Circuit- where regular process goes to die! Or, as Josh Blackman might say ... nothing to see here!
Oldham also gave us the Netchoice v. Paxton decision in which he faulted the plaintiffs for citing actual Supreme Court cases with respect to the 1A instead of providing evidence about the "original public meaning" of the 1A. Because, you know, that's how you do litigation: you reinvent the wheel each time, ignoring anything that the Supreme Court has said in a 200 year span.
I mean, given that the 5th is full of loons, he has done an excellent job of distinguishing himself.
If every village needs an idiot, and the 5th is (arguably) a Village of Idiots, he might be the Idiot of the Village of Idiots.
(At the appellate level, at least. I mean, I don't even want to discuss some of the district court judges.)