The Volokh Conspiracy
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Squatters' Rights Laws Violate the Takings Clause
Where these laws allow squatters to occupy houses without the owner's consent, they qualify as takings of private property that require payment of compensation under the Fifth Amendment.

In recent weeks, there has been a lot of media coverage of squatters' rights laws that sometimes have the effect of blocking property owners from removing trespassers who occupy their houses without the owners' permission. Newsweek describes some highly publicized recent cases:
A recent string of incidents in Georgia, New York and Washington has brought squatting, the practice of occupying someone else's property without their consent, into the spotlight.
In Washington, a squatter named Sang Kim made headlines after preventing Jaskaran Singh, a landlord, from possessing his $2 million property following Kim's refusal to pay rent for two years.
Earlier in March, a New York property owner was arrested over unlawful eviction after confronting a group of alleged squatters who had taken over her deceased parents' home in Flushing, Queens, ABC 7 reported. While the woman held the property's deed, one man said he was on a lease for the house—which meant the property owner was barred from kicking him out [he, in fact, did not actually have a lease].
That same month, David Morris, a landlord in Atlanta, told Fox 5 of a group of squatters who were preventing him from building affordable housing on his nine-acre land and whom he was unable to remove because of a moratorium on evictions.
Morris told the outlet he had agreed to let four people stay on the land without paying rent about 10 years ago, but that he found the number of people occupying the property had grown to about "30 campers." Though the squatters were taken away from the land, Morris said he spent $10,000 to clean up their garbage.
John Stossel of Reason made a video focusing on the New York case.
As often happens when an issue attracts media attention, it is hard to tell from early reports how widespread the problem actually is. But even a few cases of successful squatting may be problematic, because they could incentivize imitation. Media attention could accelerate that process.
Ideally, state and local governments should make it easy for property owners to swiftly remove squatters, and should subject the trespassers to civil and criminal sanctions. But where they instead facilitate this violation of property rights, the laws that do so violate the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment, which requires payment of "just compensation" whenever the government takes "private property."
In Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid (2021), the Supreme Court ruled that even temporary government-authorized physical occupations of private property are "per se" (automatic) takings. Thus, the Court struck down a California law requiring agricultural growers to give union organizers access to their land for three hours per day, 120 days per year. At least some state squatter rights' laws are considerably more egregious than that: They enable squatters to completely occupy the property for many weeks or months on end, totally excluding the owner in the process. That is particularly true of New York City's law, which gives squatters who claim to be tenants strong rights against removal if they have been on the property for at least 30 days. Landowners seeking to remove the squatters after that point must go through an eviction process, which can take as long as two years.
Chief Justice John Roberts' opinion for the Court in Cedar Point does outline some exceptions to the rule that state-mandated physical occupations qualify as takings. But squatter rights don't fall within any of them. For example, the squatters pretty obviously aren't government employees conducting health and safety inspections.
Squatters could perhaps argue that their activities fall within what the Court called "traditional common law privileges to access private property." The common law does recognize the right to claim property through "adverse possession." But traditional common law precedent permits that only after squatters have had continuous exclusive possession of the land for a long period of time (usually five years or more), and only if the owner made no effort to assert his or her rights during that time. The New York City law and others like it go way beyond that.
The Takings Clause may not be the best possible remedy for this situation. Filing and winning such a case could take many months. And if property owners do prevail, they generally get only the "fair market value" of the rights lost, which may not fully compensate all of their losses. However, this avenue can provide at least some valuable redress; the longer the squatters remain, the greater the amount of compensation the government will have to pay. And fear of takings liability may incentivize state and local governments to repeal or tighten up the laws that cause the problem.
Legal issues aside, it's worth noting that squatters' rights laws end up harming the very people they are supposed to help: low-income tenants. If property owners have reason to fear that squatters can occupy their land without their consent, they will be less willing to rent property to begin with, charge higher rents, screen potential tenants more carefully (thereby potentially excluding those with low income, few or nor references, and the like), or some combination of all of these measures. They may also be incentivized to impose more costly and elaborate security restrictions on access to land (which in turn is likely to raise rents). All of this predictably reduces the availability of housing and increases its costs.
I hope property owners and public interest law firms give serious consideration to bringing takings challenges against these laws. They are not a panacea for the problem. But they could help.
UPDATE: Prominent takings expert Robert Thomas (Pacific Legal Foundation) comments on this post at the Inverse Condemnation Blog:
In other cases where the courts have upheld regulations and restrictions on an owner's right to recover possession from an actual tenant -- you know, someone with whom the owner actually and expressly agreed, and then transferred the right to exclude to the tenant -- the courts frequently note that "no one is forcing you to become a landlord."
Well here, the owner is being forced to become a landlord.
Professor Somin wraps by noting, "I hope property owners and public interest law firms give serious consideration to bringing takings challenges against these laws. They are not a panacea for the problem. But they could help."
Since we are part of a non-profit, pro bono, public interest law firm as the good professor describes, we shall note here that the welcome mat is out, and if the above-situation is your situation, let us know.
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Seems like a temporary physical invasion, which would allow remedies akin to lost profits I believe. Gov’t would probably argue it’s merely a regulatory interference (not physical). They’ll twist themselves into all kinds of weird knots to defend against a takings claim.
If it had ended at the historical concept of people who could use a place moving into a quasi-abandoned building unkept for for years, I don't think this would be an issue. It's taken on some kind of cachet of how dare you kick out a poor person.
Ideologically, a fair number of people in government don't like the idea of actual private property rights. It's an extension of the trend that made "Lochnerism" a swear word.
If you can identify a single person in government that explicitly (as opposed to bad-faith mindreading) 'doesn't like provate property rights' I would be interested to know who.
Bill de Blasio (though he's not in government right now):
Hang on, why don't the squatters have property rights? (Once they've been there a while.) Adverse possession is a thing.
Did you read the post? He covered that:
>The common law does recognize the right to claim property through "adverse possession." But traditional common law precedent permits that only after squatters have had continuous exclusive possession of the land for a long period of time (usually five years or more), and only if the owner made no effort to assert his or her rights during that time.
The common law can be changed by statute.
Changing that through statute would still be a taking.
Becuase ‘a while’ is now less than a month (30 days in some places). So you can go on a vacation, and not have a home to return to.
That's partly a political issue, and partly a difficult line-drawing exercise for the courts: How long does a squatter need to live somewhere before they acquire (constitutionally protected) property rights?
So what's your argument? How is it a political issue?
I am fine with the common law timeline.
Heck, even if less than 30 days, cops are not going to be terribly willing to remove anybody. They will just say it is a civil matter and deal with it amongst yourselves.
On a practical basis, the perversity is that against the squatters, the cops say there's nothing they can do but come down on property owners like a ton of bricks. If unknown masked men swing by the property and start breaking bones until the squatters decide to leave, then that is just the sort of crime that won't be solved.
So someone illegally entering an area that they are not entitled to be is now wrong? Somin's account must have been hacked.
People continuing to fail to understand the difference between private and public property. Film at 11.
What difference are you suggesting?
https://apnews.com/article/crime-arizona-law-enforcement-0068c0af339606f3e3f1e1a0182bfe04
One of the problems with the media coverage is that it fails to distinguish between what everyone would think of as squatters — just showing up to a property and occupying it and refusing to leave — and people who claim to have the legal right to be there — e.g., someone who says "I have a lease." The police can't just come and haul someone away in the latter case, because they don't know whether the putative squatter has a valid lease. And most if not all places ban 'self help evictions' for obvious avoiding-breach-of-the-peace reasons.
“I have a lease, but not paying rent (fulfilling their terms).” Also, “I have a lease that might or is fraudulent” are all being taken as ‘this person has property rights.
The point is that the police cannot determine whether someone is paying rent or whether a lease is fraudulent; that's a job for the courts, not a random cop.
Why is it any different than the other things random cops determine? If a store owner says the guy didn't pay for the TV, if the car owner says they didn't loan the thief the car, if the homeowner says they didn't give the burglar permission to enter, why is that different from the homeowner saying they never leased their property?
Why not? Given that most jurisdiction regulate renting and housing turnover, requiring occupancy certificates and other zoning requirements, why wouldn’t it be quickly obvious that the owner (the alleged landlord) never took any of the steps that would be required for a valid lease could exist? There should be a paper trail quickly reviewable/produceable (including in the possession of local government) to determine such questions without open ended litigation.
Sure, some owner scumbag might be renting under the regulatory table, so to speak. Sure, that might be exploitive. But why should the law protect such behavior, because all it does is encourage such behaviors?
First, I have no idea what government paper trail you think exists in most leasing situations. No, there generally is no requirement¹ for such things. Second, if we required such in order for the tenants to prove they were legitimate tenants, that would reward the unscrupulous landlords that didn't do so.
¹Although I did see someone on social media suggest that perhaps, just like deeds being publicly recorded, places should require that leases be also required to be recorded.
I'm not really buying that excuse. If I report my car stolen and the police find somebody driving it, then they won't be satisfied with the driver's baseless assertion that they had permission to borrow it-- the police will examine the car registration and arrest the thief. In the unlikely event that somebody reported their car stolen when the driver really did have permission, then they'd probably go after the liar once they sorted it out and the falsely arrested person would have a civil suit against the liar.
It should work the same here. Who actually owns the property is public record they can easily look up. If the property owner says they're trespassers, then the squatters have the option of leaving or getting arrested. In the unlikely event the property owner is lying, handle it in housing court. The status quo allows squatters to waste two years in housing court, then when you finally get an eviction order... they declare bankruptcy and you have to start over in bankruptcy court. It's insane.
Because cars are not commonly rented by private parties, while apartments routinely are.
If the car were registered to a rental agency, then the analogy would be closer.
I don't think shifting it to a car rental agency changes anything. If Enterprise reports a car is stolen, the cops pull over the guy driving it, they're not just going to take his word for it that he secretly has a rental agreement and tell Enterprise it's a civil issue. They'll look it up, see the car is registered to Enterprise, and arrest the guy. Come down like a ton of bricks on any false reports (as actually happened with Hertz) but they operate under the assumption that the owner's theft report is accurate. Should be the same thing for landlord/tenant.
BL, call me naive. But why can't the property owner a) expect the cops to take someone away the property owner says is trespassing, or b) have hired bodyguards physically remove them to the curbside, then call the cops?
In the absence of a written legal contract, why isn't the property owners to control access to his property absolute (cannot bar police, I get that)? If the property owner says, get off my
lawnproperty, that's it. Discussion is over. At that point, doesn't an uninvited squatter become an unwanted trespasser.Because, for the most part, verbal, day to day, week to week, or month to month leases are legal in this country. Longer leases (I think in many places, longer than a year) must be in writing, under the Statute of Frauds. And part of the complexity is that the length of the lease determines the notice requirement for eviction. Thus, for a day to day lease, the notice period may be one day, for a week to week, one week, and a month to month lease, a whole month. And you typically cannot evict tenants without giving them notice.
What stops a squatter from lying, and saying they have a verbal lease. What a mess!
Yes, hence the need for courts.
...which is a several year process in which the owner does not get their property but, in major cities, are still obligated to maintain the property they cannot use.
The squatter, of course, can and does destroy the property.
You are an idiot.
You must be new here.
Martinned2 is IIRC a resident of, and/or a citizen of, the Netherlands, who has exhibited here a dislike of, and contempt for, Anglo-American jurisprudence for a very long time.
I wouldn't get exercised about anything he says, but neither would I pay it the slightest attention.
You...don't think cars are commonly rented by private parties?
Do you want to think about that again for a minute?
I've never rented my car to anyone. Have you?
(Perhaps you misunderstand what he was saying. He was not saying that private people don't rent cars for their own use; he's saying that private people don't rent out their cars to other people.)
It is not terribly rare for somebody to let a trusted friend use their car temporarily if needed.
It should never happen, honestly, but it does.
Sure, use—not rent. They're very different, because if I merely let you use my car, then the issue doesn't arise; if I say I want it back you can't assert any rights to it. You have to give it back on the spot.
I'm curious: Why should it never happen? Do you have some odd definition of "trusted" and/or "friend"?
Very much so. I do not care how well I think I know somebody, I've had friends who ended up doing stupid shit and if they do stupid shit in my car, I might lose my car.
Unless I am married to them, I personally do not let ANYBODY use my car.
I'm with Brett. It's just a car, and it's insured.
If I invite someone to dinner they might knock over a candle and burn my house down. If I ride with them they might space out and kill me in a wreck. Life is full of those kinds of crazy risks.
(how about roping up with strangers and going climbing!)
Why would I rent your car to anyone?
There are apps for that very thing. Kinda like AirBnB for automobiles.
And even more to the point, cars are not commonly rented for a defined long term (other than cars leased from auto dealers, anyway), while apartments and houses are.
This still doesn't change anything.
Car dealership reports a car stolen. They catch the guy who then says, "Woah, I leased this car from them!"
Are they going to say, "Oh, gee whiz, this is too complicated for us, it's a civil matter!" Of course not, the guy is getting arrested (and the dealership will be in hot water if they screwed up and the guy really did lease the car). The different treatment of squatters is a public policy choice we should unmake.
Saying the different treatment of "squatters" begs the question. The (likely) different treatment of people who claim to be legitimate tenants vs. someone who claims to be the legitimate lessor of a car is because of the different ways cars and residences are leased in the real world.
In the real world, people do not lease cars without extensive paperwork. A private individual is unlikely to lease his car to someone else at all, and neither a car dealership nor a car rental agency says, "Oh, sure, take one of our cars. Just pay for it monthly and you can keep it." So there's unlikely to be anything for cops to sort out. In the real world, though, people lease houses or apartments all the time with minimal or no paperwork. And police are not equipped on the spot to sort out those disputes. The "public policy choice" you decry merely reflects those realities.
Moreover, the consequences of the police siding against the putative lessors are very different in the two contexts. If the police stop a driver, decide he's not entitled to the car he's driving, seize it, and return it to the dealer, the driver may have to call an Uber to get him home. If the police decide someone isn't entitled to be living somewhere and forcibly remove him, the resident may be standing on a street corner with his possessions and no place to go with them.
"If the police stop a driver, decide he’s not entitled to the car he’s driving, seize it, and return it to the dealer, the driver may have to call an Uber to get him home."
I am under the impression that when the police find you driving a car they don't think you own (lease, have permission, ...) they give you a ride to your destination (which is now jail) 🙂
---------
As an aside, the 'have permission' part seems relevant here. People surely loan cars to friends/relatives/etc; I know I've been on both the lend and borrow side of that a number of times. And I've read a number of police reports where there is a dispute about whether the use at the moment is with permission. My sense is that the police just take the owners word for it, haul the driver off to jail and charge them with car theft.
This is usually a he said/she said situation (because ex-boy/girlfriends seem to figure commonly is these situations).
Let's say I fly to visit Mom. When I'm there I sleep in one of her (my old!) bedrooms, and I also drive her car on errands. She tells the cops A)I stole the car and B)I don't have a lease for the bedroom. I assert I have verbal permission to drive the car and a verbal lease on the bedroom. Why is the default in one case that they believe her and in the other they believe me?
I think some states even explicitly assume a lease situation if someone stays for a given period - 30 days or whatever, as in if you let your boyfriend move in for 31 days you can no longer throw him out (without going through the eviction process). As Mom's health declined, I was sometimes there for a couple months at a time. It seems weird that on day 45 I have a legal claim to the bedroom but not the car.
I'm not sure I see a problem with the rule being that only written leases are valid; if you just move into a buddy's spare room sans lease you are at risk of getting booted at will. The current rules have downsides for both the owner and guest, namely that I'm going to be a lot more careful about letting someone who hit a rough patch stay in the spare bedroom if I can't send them on their way when I choose.
"If the police decide someone isn’t entitled to be living somewhere and forcibly remove him, the resident may be standing on a street corner with his possessions and no place to go with them."
Same with a homeowner who finds squatters in his home when returning from a vacation. But d-bags like you don't care about property rights.
In the real world, though, people lease houses or apartments all the time with minimal or no paperwork. And police are not equipped on the spot to sort out those disputes. The “public policy choice” you decry merely reflects those realities.
Sure they are-- who is the owner of the property? Public record. Now that we've established who the owner of the property is, evict the squatters. In the unlikely event the squatters really did have a lease, then that can be settled in housing court-- if they did a fake lease with no paperwork, then that's largely on them. A legal regime where anybody can sneak onto any property and then stay for three years while the courts sort it out is clearly doing something wrong.
"If the police decide someone isn’t entitled to be living somewhere and forcibly remove him, the resident may be standing on a street corner with his possessions and no place to go with them."
That's exactly what should happen to squatters. They're parasites.
I don't know if you're inattentive, dumb, or malicious. Simply calling someone a "squatter" doesn't make him one.
I don't think you and other people here grasp that the vast majority of the times that these disputes arise are not when someone goes to Disneyworld for a week and comes home to find random people living in his home. Rather, it's a rental property, in which the landlord wants the residents out (for legitimate or illegitimate reasons) and the residents say, "We have a right to be here." There is no basis for the cop to decide, "Oh, you're the owner, so we'll remove these people for you." Someone with a lease (including an oral one) has a superior right to be in the home to an owner.
You are right that in some places it takes way way way too long to evict. But that's the problem that needs to be addressed — not to legalize owners evicting people at gunpoint.
"Rather, it’s a rental property, in which the landlord wants the residents out (for legitimate or illegitimate reasons)"
This may be a case of differing definitions. The eponymous wiki article uses a definition of "Squatting is the action of occupying an abandoned or unoccupied area of land or a building, usually residential, that the squatter does not own, rent or otherwise have lawful permission to use".
That contrasts, I think, with 'Fred has a rented the place for a year but missed last month's rent'.
In the 'United States' section of that article it mentions "During the Great Recession (2007–2009) there were increasing numbers of people squatting foreclosed homes.[166][167] There were also reports of people resquatting their own foreclosed homes.[168]". Those first two footnotes - 166 and 167 - aren't talking about renters or mortgagors who stay on without paying; they are people taking over places they never had a right to be in.
We actually had a situation like that locally — someone had last checked his car in January and had parked it in a garage related to his apartment complex -- adjacent to a commuter rail station. He arrived and found “juveniles” living in it, they’d broken a window, popped the ignition and run down the battery. The one who was present at the time admitted that they were living in it.
Cops said “oh, whatever…”
As best I can tell they didn’t “steal” the vehicle because they hadn’t taken it out of the garage, so they were all OK.
Look, it's March 26th's episode of Dr. Ed Makes Up A Story!
Fire trUCK you.
Once again, Dr. Ed is perfectly happy to call for mass murder but is too squeamish to say “fuck.”
Well I'm not, fuck you David Never-Potent.
And don't look now, but guys have been "Squatting" in your wife's snatch for years.
If you go into your home and ventilate a squatter or two, it is not murder.
Thief: You see, officer, I paid for this TV.
Cop: Gee, sound like civil matter. Nothing for me to do here.
Maybe I'm missing it, but I haven't found a basis for many of the claims made in the media coverage.
Is there a reason that cops, when called to a case of someone squatting, can't treat it like any other crime? Investigate, and arrest the person for trespassing, breaking and entering, fraud, false statements, etc. if there is PC?
Thief: You see, officer, I paid for this TV.
Cop: Gee, sound like civil matter. Nothing for me to do here.
Go ahead and imagine that scenario in your home, while you're watching that TV.
You don't think there's any way for a cop to figure out the difference?
Have you always been this stupid, or did you have to work at it? Anyone can say, "I have a lease." So what--if the owner didn't grant rights to the property, then the mere incantation of a lease cannot operate to take away someone's right to occupy his or her dwelling or do things like change the locks.
Also, there's the castle doctrine which allows people (as a practical matter) to shoot people in their own home given that the presence of strangers in one's home (if one is there) is an obvious threat.
The problem with that statement is that the police aren't nearly as cautious in other situations. If I report my car stolen, and they pull over someone driving it, they will normally arrest the driver even if he/she claims to be the rightful owner or has a lease to the car.
If a woman makes an accusation of rape, when the police confront the accused, he can claim the encounter was consensual. Are the police supposed to say "well it's now he said/she said, and we don't know so we can't do anything"?
Yet in the case of housing, and only housing, they are doing just that.
So whenever there’s a dispute about ownership, the loser just collects from the government?
That sounds like a recipe for never having to work for a living as long as the government pays.
Don’t taxpayers also have property rights?
While Ilya has his head up his arse, I actually agree with him on this in theory.
IF the government permits a third party to take your property, that is the same thing as the government itself doing so and hence the "takings" clause applies. And when the taxpayers are tired of paying these settlements, they will elect other politicians who put an end to the takings.
The problem is that no lawyer is going to take these cases and hence the ability to sue is moot.
What this does over time to our concept of "rule of law" is an interesting question -- I've been denied justice, why should I care if anyone else gets it? Conversely, why should I care if there are bodies floating down the river?
The government is providing a decision rule to decide disputes between parties who each claim rights to the property.
Professor Somin uses his disagreement with the decision rule to argue that government is “taking” property from the side he thinks should have it and “giving” it to the other side.
But the loser in practically every property dispute thinks the government is taking their property and giving it to someone else. Professor Somin’s disgruntlement about the outcome and his view of government and its justice is shared by roughly half the litigants who ever come to court or get advised by their lawyers to settle on terms they don’t like. Professor Somin, as usual, is absolutely certain that he’s right and the decision rule resulting in the outcome he doesn’t like is wrong. But EVERY LOSING LITIGANT THINKS THE SAME!
Why aren’t they as entitled to turn their disgruntlement into government cash as Professor Somin?
Does the takings clause permit the government to take property because it's the subject of a dispute?
But government never took any property. Professor Somin fails to grasp that there is a huge difference between merely deciding which litigant’s claim to the property in a dispute gets recognized and actually taking the property for oneself.
"But government never took any property."
If the landlord can be prosecuted for changing the locks, etc. so that the squatter can use to property during the "dispute" then they certainly have taken the property.
"But government never took any property. Professor Somin fails to grasp that there is a huge difference between merely deciding which litigant’s claim to the property in a dispute gets recognized and actually taking the property for oneself."
But there is not an appreciable difference to the rightful owner.
The government has few legitimate obligations and property rights is a big one. Allowing somebody to falsely take the property is not different than the government taking it.
Either way, the owner lost the property.
"But government never took any property."
You are disputing the very premise of the argument Prof. Somin is making. He's saying that by the law allowing squatters to deny the owner's access and control of his property that the government has taken it. And most rational people agree with this.
I believe the same applies to rent control laws, 'though, in one of their worst decisions, SCOTUS disagrees.
I feel the same about ordinances requiring builders to set aside units for low income, requiring builders to build affordable housing, and so forth. They should at least be compensated under the takings clause.
I wonder how Prof. Somin feels about rent control?
You and Professor Somin are certain you know which of the litigants walking into court is in the right before starting any legal proceedings or hearing any evidence.
If so, could you please tell me how much Apple and Tesla stock will go up and down in the next year? Since you can see the future with certainty clearly enough to know that a landlord’s claim that the occupants are squatters is right and they aren’t tenants or entitled to possession under, adverse possession or similar doctrines, surely predicting future corporate profits and stock market prices must be a cynch to you.
I dispute Professor Somin’s premise because it’s not just disputable, it’s rediculous. As usual, he claims certain knowledge over matters he doesn’t (and you don’t) really know anything about.
Dude, you're a moron. First of all, the police can do some investigation. Second, the uncertainty of the "he said/she said" does not operate to take away the constitutional rights of the property owner. So let's say it truly is my house, can I be dispossessed of my right to be in it? What about my personal property? Why am I required to continue to pay for utilities?
You may have a constitutional right to your property. You don't have a constitutional right to be believed when you say it's your property.
And remember, a legitimate tenant has superior rights to possession over you.
Ok, now you are just being stupid. First of all, I wasn’t talking about a legitimate tenant. What I am saying is that, regardless of whether I am believed or not, my rights are my rights, so if someone squats in my home, I still have the right to possession, the right to exclude and the right to turn off utilities. You don’t dispute that directly because, of course, you cannot.
Furthermore, this no right to be believed concept can only go so far–the government cannot, under the guise of the ability to resolve uncertainty, take away Fifth Amendment rights. This means that, if there’s a squatter in your dwelling, and you come home, the cops cannot lawfully tell you that you are barred from your own home. (They could for a very short time, maybe, if they are facilitating a peaceful exit of the squatters.)
Sigh. Whether the person is a legitimate tenant or a "squatter" is the very question at issue. You don't get to skip over the fact-finding and go right to a verdict.
If you're the landlord you will have firsthand knowledge whether the person is legit or not, but the police do not know.
"If you’re the landlord you will have firsthand knowledge whether the person is legit or not, but the police do not know."
So, in the previously linked case the squatters didn't assert ownership; they said they had a lease, a copy of which they produced. The purported lease wasn't from the owners, it was from a property management company which did not exist.
You can get phone apps that list the legal owner for property - 'OnX' is the one we have. A few properties are owned by a trust or LLC or whatever, but most list 'Jane and Jim Smith'. So on one hand we have Jane and Jim saying it's their house, and on the other hand we have Fred Watson waving a lease from Acme Property Management, with an out of service phone number, the street address of a Safeway store, and a web site that gives 'Domain name not found'. Considering all these facts together, what should the process be, how long should it take, and who should get possession in the interim?
You must be a Democrat. If I have a home, and I go away for a week's vacation, and I come back and there are squatters there, then that does not dispossess me of the right: (a) to be in the house itself and (b) avail myself of self-defense rights once I am in the house.
If the government tells me that I cannot be in my own home, thus violating my Fifth Amendment rights, then that's a taking.
You must be a Democrat
ReaderY's politics don't seem amenable to boxes.
Only a Democrat could make up this nonsense. "due process of law" doesn't include someone illegally taking over my property.
Wow you truly are negative partisanship brain-poisoned.
Whatever man. We have property rights in this country. Dems generally seem to think that they are somehow negotiable.
Again, I have to ask what dimension of realty Ilya lives in because it's not the real world.
"The Takings Clause may not be the best possible remedy for this situation. Filing and winning such a case could take many months. And if property owners do prevail, they generally get only the "fair market value" of the rights lost, which may not fully compensate all of their losses."
That may be true, but no lawyer is going to take the case. There is too much work and not enough money in it -- assuming that you can even collect, there isn't enough money to interest a lawyer.
What will happen -- and I live in the real world -- is the landlord will get a stack of $100 bills and wave them in the face of some thugs and say "would you like to have these? Go "encourage" those folk to leave.,." I've had cops tell me that this happens -- I don't know the specifics and maybe the thugs are on retainer or something, but it's widely known that you hire the local gangbangers to solve this problem for you.
Again, Ilya doesn't live in the real world -- IDEALLY his answer would be the "right" one -- IF we had a bar that was willing to take cases like this. But we don't and hence the expedient solution is terrorism. Send some thugs in to beat up the squatters and scare them off the property -- and eat both the lost income and cost of thugs.
No, you haven’t.
It does happen. There are people who are "adept" at getting squatters to leave a property and they will take payment to get them to leave yours.
Will they then ALSO leave at the end? Who knows?
Is Dr. Ed stupid, or is Dr. Ed really really stupid? Prof. Somin says that the Takings Clause, though applicable, may not be a realistic remedy for some of these situations. Dr. Ed even quotes the language Prof. Somin uses saying that. And then Dr. Ed says that Prof. Somin is unrealistic because Prof. Somin doesn't realize that the Takings clause isn't a realistic remedy.
No, you are really stupid.
It's hard to figure out what the actual law is in these cases. New York's Unlawful Eviction law says it only applies to people lawfully occupying the property, which squatters aren't.
Some news articles claim that police can't arrest squatters for trespassing if they claim to be a tenant, but I haven't found an authorities source for that. I'm not sure why the cops couldn't do that if they have probable cause, and the owner's assertion that the squatter doesn't have a lease should give them that.
If squatters are trespassing and the police are simply doing a poor job of enforcing the law, I'm not sure how that's a taking, although maybe it should be. Cops generally don't have an obligation to enforce the law.
But how do you settle the fact question of whether there was a verbal lease?
This sounds like a Christine Blasey Ford scenario. You've never met the people who have broken into your house, yet we're going to accept their representation that they entered into a verbal lease with you.
The same way you handle any other claim of innocence. You investigate and determine whether or not it's accurate.
Now, news reports claim that the law says that property disputes over tenancy are special for various reasons. And that may well be the case, but I haven't found any authorities source that says that cops can't arrest squatters for trespassing, fraud, etc. As I said above, it's quite possible that I'm missing something.
Say verbal leases are meaningless.
It is a quick and easy fix.
If they cannot prove they have a right to be there, then they do not belong there. You want to lease something? Have something signed by you and the property owner.
Even with a verbal lease , neither side can change the law. Why did they get the verbal lease -- if they did-- because the owner IS The OWNER
That’s the fundamental question.
Well, there is this gem:
https://www.boston.com/news/national-news/2024/03/27/the-hotel-guest-who-wouldnt-leave/?p1=hp_primary
I'm not clear exactly how the squatters occupying the property constitutes government action. Isn't the government merely refraining from using it's police power to evict those tenants?
Indeed, I believe the landlord still has the right to sue any individuals who occupy his property without the payment of rent -- it's just the practically they are judgement proof.
I agree this is horrible public policy but from a legal POV the claim that the 5th amendment grants either a right to police protection of your property or a right to self-enforcement seems dubious and risky.
"I’m not clear exactly how the squatters occupying the property constitutes government action."
Preventing the owner from changing the locks, removing the doors, and shutting off the utilities is certainly government action.
We had this same discussion during the pandemic eviction bans. ("We" meaning commenters here; I don't know whether you specifically were involved.) No, the government isn't "merely" refraining from using its police power to evict; it is also forbidding the property owner from using his or her own power to evict.
This is different. In the pandemic they did prevent landlords from locking out the tenants but I don’t believe that’s the case here for squaters who have never had a lease. Rather, my understanding is that it’s instead just a dangerous undertaking because you run substantial legal risk if the court concludes that they in fact did have a lease.
Yes, in some cases you may be fighting against a presumption that the tenant has a lease when they occupy the building but that's a different issue. It's not at all clear the 5th amendment prevents the state from setting default evidentiary presumptions.
And preexisting rules before a lease is signed granting tenants right are presumably not themselves a violation of the 5th but just the state exercising it's power to decide what kind of contracts it's going to allow.
The problem is that the law goes quite a ways to protect actual tenants. And those laws are being used to prevent owners from legally or extralegally evicting squatters. They are being taught by activists to claim to be tenants. The police are not really in a position to determine if this is a landlord/tenant dispute, or a case of squatters. That’s what the courts do, in eviction cases. But that is time consuming and expensive (compounded because of the loss of rent during the eviction).
I believe the effect of New York City laws is that if you are inside a house, and your possessions are also there, and you slept there the previous night, then the law executes as if there’s a rebuttable presumption that you have a right to be there. All evidentiary burdens shift to the property owner, such as to prove that they are the property title holder, to prove that there is no lease in effect, to prove that the person in the house has no other rights that may permit him to occupy the property. The police are no longer allowed to judge any of those findings of fact; findings can only be held as such by a court, in a court’s timeframe. Further, the city effectively grants all purported tenants a right to counsel and provides funding for said counsel.
Those protections almost guarantee that a property owner, through state funded advocacy on behalf of tenants, is effectively prosecuted under the guise of “tenants’ rights” for all possible ways in which they may not be entitled to prevail over a theoretical tenant, regardless of how much the facts and evidence of the case may support the property owner’s claims. The property owner faces 1 to 2 years of time and expense to make notices of their case, and their case, according to the state-imposed rules on Slow Walk Street.
It’s one more way that politicians purport to “create housing,” I mean, “protect tenants’ rights.”
Which is why you simply hire the thugs.
$5000 in cash if those folk leave, and I don't want to know anything....
You had better pull that $5,000 from your "Fani Willis" home cash stash, and not suddenly from your bank. While NYC prosecutors aren't interested in going after casual theft or assault, they'd be all over a "Bad Landlord" story. In New York, it's important to think of all landlords as Bad Landlords, because that's the only way you can justify the fact that the legal system system treats all landlords as if they are Bad Landlords.
Of course -- although how do they prove that you didn't spend the money gambling on on women or whatever?
Heck -- I was handing out $100 bills to the homeless (and actually give a few them) or I put it in the church offering plate after I had some chest pains and was worried about my mortality.
Soprano's did that story 20 years ago.
If squatters were subject to summary execution, our society would immediately and immensely improve. I think the only group for who this is more applicable is people who don't return their shopping carts at the grocery store. Nothing of value would be lost.
You and Dr. Ed should form some kind of shitty club.
Whose house are you squatting in?
Awesome point. How could I be against your 'kill lots of people' policy unless I personally had something at stake?
Be less of a fucking psycho. And "Nothing of value would be lost." is truly evil thinking.
Someone has the balls to take over a home and stay when owner wants them out--yeah, I'd say we're not missing much.
So into property rights, you dehumanize at the drop of a hat.
A squatter that attempts to kick someone out of their home and stay there when confronted is a horrible person, and while I wouldn't say that they should face capital punishment, I would find other things to worry about than if the criminal activity cost him his life. One less criminal. Hard to really care that much.
The squatters have dehumanized themselves. We would only be treating them accordingly.
Talking in the theater, General; don't forget talking in the theater.
Unironically true.
Always wondered why there wasn’t a “Dexter” style Cereal Killer who instead of killing other Cereal Killers, took out lower rungs of Society’s Succus Entericus, the “Too many items in Express lane/Left Lane Bandits” or my new favorite, the “Expert” at a Solar Eclipse who has to tell everyone what they’re seeing, “Look! Bailey’s Beads!” "Venus!"(it's usually Jupiter) Fair warning, I’ll be in Waco April 8th, and Tejas is “Constitutional Carry”
Frank "Look! AOC's Pearl Necklace!"
Regarding the update, I've always hated with a passion that, "nobody is forcing you to be an X" argument.
No, you don't have to be a plumber. You don't have to be a dentist. You don't have to apply hair extensions, or give people massages.
But you have to do SOMETHING! We're not all born with trust funds we can live off of, after all.
And if the government can impose conditions on doing X, Y, and Z for a living, they can impose conditions on doing the whole damned alphabet for a living. The regulators can chase you from job to job to job, leaving you no escape.
So "Nobody is forcing you do be an X"? If the government can condition any job on satisfying arbitrary demands, it can condition EVERY job on satisfying arbitrary demands, and eventually will.
1. You generalize from a particular condition to the existence of regulations generally. The argument is not about being regulated at all, but about a particular regulation that applies to a particular profession.
2. The government, for reasons both political and judicial, cannot create arbitrary conditions.
The government, demonstrably, DOES create arbitrary conditions. Like demanding that people who do hair braiding have training in cosmetology services they don't offer.
Federal Judge Upholds Ban on Unlicensed African Hair-Braiding, Says Courts Must Show 'Great Deference' to Government Regulations
That case does not appear to include the contention that the decision was arbitrary. It’s an Equal Protection analysis only. (though the logic about creating a unified regulatory scheme does seem like the logic could be extended to that question)
And yeah, the voting public isn’t as libertarian as you are.
You know those locking clips on gas pump handles that let you pump your tank full without having to hold the handle? They've all been removed in the state of New York. They're illegal here. You *must* hold the handle here. (But nobody's forcing you to get gas.)
You know all those self-service gas stations where you drive up and pump your own gas? In New Jersey, *all* gas station *must* provide an attendant who *does* pump your gas, whether you want that or not. And that mandatory attendant rule is also in effect in the municipality of Huntington, New York.
Sarc: "The government, for reasons both political and judicial, cannot create arbitrary conditions."
Different policies by different policymaking bodies does not mean said policies are arbitrary.
Talk about Strange Bedfellows, Oregon has the same stupid Gas pumping law, but at least in Oregon you can still decline and pump your own gas. Try that in Jersey, where every "Attendant" looks like the "20th Hijacker"
Sarc: "The government, for reasons both political and judicial, cannot create arbitrary conditions."
Yes, ideologues often appeal to incredulity.
“The government, for reasons both political and judicial, cannot create arbitrary conditions.”
Only an ideologue, so strategically devoid of self examination, could make such a preposterous remark.
(See examples above.)
Doubling down on an appeal to incredulity doesn't give you great standing to accuse others of lacking reason.
The Clean Water Act authorized the EPA to regulate "navigable waters." The EPA determined that unconnected adjacent areas would be included in "navigable waters."
The Supreme Court clarified the meaning of "navigable waters" in 2005 thusly:
(emphasis mine)
With that helpful clarification, the EPA determined that "navigable waters" included "a lot [...] near a ditch that fed into a creek, which fed into Priest Lake, a navigable, intrastate lake."
That's not an arbitrary determination? That such a piece of land is included in "navigable waters", even after the 2005 clarification?
There's always a reason, Sarc. That makes the actions "not arbitrary"? NOTHING is arbitrary under your implied definition. Everything is done with a surmisable reason.
I expect you'll forgive me for disliking people who have blue hair. I certainly wouldn't want to dislike people arbitrarily.
As is typical, the definitions of all their words are fungible, and all their concepts are boundless.
Broad does also not mean arbitrary.
Squatter Squad provides a squatter ejection and prevention service in Southern California. They use the fact that the court system in CA is so expensive and slow as a selling point. They won’t remove non-paying tenants who refuse to leave, nor family members that were allowed previously to live on the property.
Some of their squatter prevention tips are pretty good, I think, such as leaving a light on and a radio tuned to talk radio playing in the house 24/7 so it looks occupied from the outside. Best to not be an easy target.
What normal person doesn't immediately see with clarity that it does violate the Takings Clause ???????
And here we go with vocabulary, what is the legal definition of 'squatter' --well, the owner of the house gets full rein to decide that. As normal people KNOW>
This will lead to more organized crime.
"Godfather, I inherited my mother's house when she passed - you were at the funeral - and I want to sell it. I need the money for my daughter's wedding. But I have found some people have occupied it and will not leave. Can you please help me."
"Yes, Vito, I can do you this favor. We will get them out, have no doubt or fear about that. But remember, a favor is a favor."
You don't even think to call me Godfather. Instead, you come into my house on the day my daughter is to be married, and you ask me to do murder ... for money.
If I was in this situation I would hire thugs to get them out. No names, cash deal.
"A migrant TikToker with a 500,000-strong online following is offering his comrades tips on how to “invade” unoccupied homes and invoke squatter’s rights in the United States.
Venezuelan national Leonel Moreno, who appears to live in a suburb of Columbus, Ohio, said in a recent video that under US law, “if a house is not inhabited, we can seize it.”
He appeared to be referring to adverse possession laws, commonly known as squatter’s rights, which allow unlawful property occupants rights over the property they occupy without the owner’s consent, in certain circumstances.
Moreno claimed in the viral TikTok clip, which has drawn more than 3.9 million views, that he has “African friends” who have “already taken about seven homes.”"
TikToker tells illegal immigrants how to ‘invade’ American homes and invoke squatter’s rights
https://nypost.com/2024/03/21/us-news/tiktokker-tells-illegal-immigrants-how-to-invade-american-homes/
The idiots in here who defend the inability to deal with squatters miss two critical points:
(1) An illegal occupation of my dwelling cannot (if we're going to follow the Constitution, anyway) operate to take away the owner's right to occupy the home. Thus, a person whose home has been taken over has an absolute unfettered right to enter that home.
(2) Once the true owner is in that home, he or she gets to exercise self-defense/castle doctrine rights.
1) where in the Constitution is that bit?
2) People gotta stop talking about murder.
If I have a home, I have property rights in said home. One of those rights is the ability to, you know, enter my home. I cannot be dispossessed of that right without due process of law, and someone sporting a fake lease ain't due process. So, I get to enter my house, and if there are strangers there, I get to, since I am lawfully in my home, exercise self-defense rights etc.
It really is that simple. You may not like it, but personally, if someone has the balls to occupy an obviously occupied home, and doesn't leave when the owner comes home, then I don't particularly care about his fate.
You cannot be dispossessed of your property rights *by the government* without due process of law.
You're writing a whole different, positive rights, Constitution.
You have to eventually decide where your limit is and where you will negotiate no further.
Stealing my home is most people's red line.
We are not talking about people's homes, we are talking about their rental properties.
And 'I've reached my limit' does not mean 'time for vigilante murder.'
At least not for normal people.
"We are not talking about people’s homes, we are talking about their rental properties."
No we aren't only talking about rental properties.
The only lease here was an obvious forgery. The legit owner never rented out the property: "My husband and I bought a little cottage in March of last year ... . Our plan was to fix it up for Gavin’s 86-year-old dad. He was ill, his wife was dying, and we wanted him nearby so that we could help out."
They bought it in March, and as of the following January the squatter(s) were still in possession. You like justice, right? Can you read that and say justice is being done? That the system is doing what it should?
Sure, there are exceptions. But the more common case is going to be rental investments.
If you're making policy based on emotional anecdotes, you're not trying to make good policy, just policy you like.
I'm not a 'landlords are scum' nor do I think squatters rights are costless. It's a balancing of equities thing, and I'm open to arguments on where the best place to put that balance is.
But the arguments I see on here seem to lean on emotion or some kind of axiomatic worldview more than not policy.
Which is the exception, though? Squatters abusing owners, or owners abusing squatters? You seem to be assuming the former is rare and the latter common; what's your evidence for that?
No, that's not what I'm thinking about - who is the 'bad guy' is a post-process determination.
I am referring to the homes vs. investment properties scenario; the latter is more common. Or that was what my property prof assumed when we covered landlord-tenant and squatters.
I think there is a spectrum here:
Alice has been a model tenant for a year and a half, but is two weeks late with the rent.
Bob was been a model tenant for six months, but is now 5 months behind on the rent.
Cindy paid the first/last when she moved in 9 months ago, and that's the last thing she paid.
Doug just moved in without permission months ago. His 'lease' is obviously fraudulent, e.g. the one linked previously from a non-existent company.
And some permutations:
Elaine let her boyfriend Fred move in six weeks ago, for free, no rent involved, but it's not working out and she wants him gone.
I have sympathy for Alice, but my sympathy declines as you go down the list. For which of those should the rightful owner be able to regain possession in, say, under two weeks?
The enforcement of the landlord's property rights only begins after the courts have considered, adjudicated and exhausted all possible or alleged tenant's rights, even for non-tenants. The alleged tenant is presumed to be a tenant-in-fact without any evidentiary burden, other than "I'm here, my stuff is here, and I slept here last night."
Neither cops, nor prosecutors, nor judges, nor property owners, nor neighbors have any problem investigating a person's alleged tenancy and easily making a highly confident determination of the validity of that claim within 24 hours. (The bums got nothing but stories.)
"A hearing for motions in this action is scheduled for two weeks from today. The property owner is ordered to preserve the rights of tenancy until then. Have a good day, everybody."
There are two litigants here: an alleged landlord and an alleged tenant, each with opposing causes of action. Many governments have decided to favor alleged tenants by effectively withholding all the protections of the landlord until all possible protections of the alleged tenant have been exhausted. This is the protection of alleged interests while setting aside actual interests. That delay is a denial of rights, and a taking.
1) The takings clause. Which is the whole point of this article.
2) Self-defense is not murder.
1) Dude’s talking about squatters. No government action. It is different from the OP
2) No one here is talking about self defense. You are not your property.
1) It is government action if the government physically prevents you from accessing your own home, or in some cases even arresting homeowners trying to keep squatters out. I mean, it’s RIGHT THERE up above in the article, I encourage you to read it.
2) Self-defense is dependent on a reasonable belief your life is in danger. If an intruder is in your home, realistically that makes a self-defense claim much more legally viable.
Lets go to the OP of this thread: "(1) An illegal occupation of my dwelling cannot (if we’re going to follow the Constitution, anyway) operate to take away the owner’s right to occupy the home."
That is not talking about state action.
I agree yours is a much stronger argument; it is not the one going on in this thread though.
We can talk about viability of claims all we want; the OP wasn't thinking about any danger to life, they just wanted to 'get to' murder squatters and get away with it:
"(2) Once the true owner is in that home, he or she gets to exercise self-defense/castle doctrine rights."
Sarcarst0, it's only murder if the body is found.
Uh oh. Somebody hasn't watched enough Law and Order episodes.
Ilya would make this article much more interesting if he discussed "Castle Doctrine" and owners' ability to go into their squatted home.
Most home locks are pretty easy to pick. There are some good tools available to do this pretty quickly.
Hire a truck, a couple of body guards, a trusted new occupant, a couple of movers, and a locksmith, if necessary. Stake out the place to determine hours the squatters are not home, if any. Arm yourself. Enter and empty the place of the squatters' possessions, into the truck. Put their stuff into a nearby storage unit. Change the locks with really good locks. Document any damage. Try to determine the identity of the squatters via their stuff, so you can sue them for damages, and report them for breaking and entering. Install an alarm system and cameras. Trusted new occupant now occupies the place. You and bodyguards remain until the squatters return, so you can inform them of the new situation. Give them the key to the storage unit.
Trusted new occupant == squatter/lesse, as far as law enforcement is told/concerned.
That's my solution. I think there are businesses that will do this.
As has been noted above, squatters rights are about implementing what is often a difference of fact.
There are functional burdens on both sides - one to their profits ad property rights, and the other to not being without shelter.
Lots of jurisdictions tend to find the burden on the squatter to be of more concern, since people don't like homelessness. Once again libertarianism falls to practicality.
And yes, it sucks for landlords. And no, landlords don't deserve it. But every policy choice has winners and losers, and any policy along the continuum here is going to suck for someone.
I do think NY has made too extreme a choice.
But not going to say lets start killing people. Like a lot of you are.
What the fuck, people?
Because Sarcastro, if someone is going to throw someone's kids out of their home by illegally occupying their home, I am not really all that concerned about the lives of those who do such appalling things.
Sure, dude. You are very tough, and we are all impressed with how you make up increasingly edge-case scenarios to justify your much more general advocacy of murder.
When someone takes someone's home, the person whose home is taken gets exercise his rights. If, in the exercise of those rights, a squatter winds up dead, that's really on the squatter. (Note I am talking about someone's home here.) Please don't expect me to care. I really don't. Just like I don't care if a criminal is offed by cops in the act of committing a violent crime.
"Lots of jurisdictions tend to find the burden on the squatter to be of more concern, since people don’t like homelessness."
If I come home from vacation and find squatters have taken up residence, it seems like there are still the same number of homeless - the only thing that has changed is who is homeless.
It certainly seems that there should be a policy aimed at that specific scenario, but the general issue that states consider is more general than that.
Or so I was taught in property class. In my very liberal law school. But politics and law do not live in a land of platonic rights.
It seems to me this position has one of two outcomes.
1. The government can avoid compensation obligations by just always believing landlord claims and/or letting landlords summarily evict whenever they claim to be entitled to do so.
2. The government cannot avoid compensation obligations but must respect putative tenant rights during the pendancy of litigation and compensate the landlord. In that case, everyone can have free housing at government expense merely by landlords and tenants agreeing to constantly dispute their tenancy, with the government having to pay the landlords during the pendancy of disputes, which is as much of the time as landlords and tenants can mutually arrange to occur. The charade is in both their interests. Playing their part gets tenants free housing. And the government is a more reliable payor than most tenants, and can be charged more than most tenants can actually afford. Everybody wins. Except the court system and the taxpayers.
Cops can do reasonable investigation. When a dwelling is seized by squatters, it usually can be figured out who is in the right. But, more to the point, the existence of squatters in one's home cannot takeaway the homeowner's property rights, one of which is to exclude the squatter and to be in the home.
Let us consider the case of a tenant who is removed from the property by police because the landlord claimed that the property in question is not leased.
If it was an honest mistake (say, because the landlord owned several properties), the landlord would be on the hook to the tenant for a few hundred to a few thousand dollars.
If the landlord lied to the police about the non-existence of a lease, not only would the landlord would be on the hook for punitive as well as compensatory damages (which may result in the tenant owning the property outright), the landlord would also be subject to criminal prosecution for fraud.
But here the police government agents are entering and seizing the home of the tenants, whose rightful possession gives them the right to call it home.
If that isn’t a taking that entitles the tenants to compensation from the government, what is?
The idea that the government must always compensate the party with a claim to title and never the party with a claim to possession and domicile, even when it erroneously seizes their home, doesn’t merely cut through centuries of precedent saying that a claim to call a place home means government should tread lightly before seizing. It’s just remarkably one-sided.
Professor Somin, and you, are proposing to minimize the chance the landlord will be inconvenienced by maximally inconveniencing the tenants. In claiming the Constitution some how requires this, you both are going against the express text of the Constitution and centuries of common law, both of which say there is something special about somebody’s home that makes it different from other other kinds of country, a specialness that government has to give special respect to and tread lightly before intruding into.
And frankly, the adage “possession is 90% of the law” means that the landlord’s bare word counts for only 10%, which isn’t enough to establish probable cause.
Oh good grief, do you really think that illegal squatting in homes/apartments is really that hard to ferret out? Let's say someone took over my home while family and I were away for a long weekend.
OK, where's the dog? Everyone knows we have a big dog. Where is he? My kids' stuff. Where is it? Or, if it's still there, how could someone possibly think they were legitimately leasing a home that is obviously lived in? How could the cops?
You're a troll.
Yeah ... just not that hard, junior. Deed, electrical, gas water bill should do. Even an uneducated cop can look at those. If there is a real issue, in 1% or the cases, the renter can find an ambulance chaser and retire.
I'll just throw this out there.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/migrant-influencer-urging-illegals-squat-us-homes-run-authorities-report
In the unintended consequences department, you can go far enough with renter's rights that you end up hurting renters.
My wife and I always rented from individual landlords, and had happy relationships. We're 'defined contribution' type retirees, and had always thought buying a rental house might be a good way to help pay for our retirement; it seemed like a nice diversification from paper assets, and I'm a reasonably capable handyman type. Our plan was to use lowball rent as a way to attract hassle free tenants.
But our state has enacted one kind of renter's rights thing after another - can't run background checks, have to take the first qualified applicant, and of course eviction for non-payment is a lengthy ordeal. As retirement approached, we heard too many horror stories and decided it wasn't the business for us. The kind of landlords that are willing to put up with all that aren't going to be the kind of nice people we always had as landlords. ISTM going too far with these laws are a boon to the worst tenants, and a harm to the best tenants.
This is a legit policy concern - driving smaller landlords out of the market means you get larger companies, and thus a less diverse market.
I'd be interested in seeing if we see an impact in NYS. Albany has recently made some legit pretty landlord-hostile rhetoric. Though other than Covid stuff, I don't know if there's been any policy upshot.
Two of my friends effectively became squatters, although I use that term loosely. They started as legitimate tenants, but then stopped paying rent. They figured the government would pay the landlord eventually, or the landlord would be forced to take a haircut on back rent, or there would be another court-enforced delay, or [something]. They obviously ignored the evident fact that they were in breach of their agreements with no meaningful defense. (They knew they weren't going to be just "thrown onto the street.")
In both cases, the landlords were just individual property owners. Both of my friends spoke highly, and personally, of their landlords before they stopped paying rent. And then, when they stopped paying, they just stopped talking about the landlords altogether. It became the never-ending story about court dates, and possible legal theories, and possible state programs, and sought after delays. About a year-and-a-half later, they were both evicted (separately, unrelatedly).
(One even did a sleazy building violations complaint one year into it, in an attempt to fabricate a pretext for his non-payment of rent.)
When I see it twice in my little circle of friends, I surmise there’s a lot of it going on elsewhere.
How scared should those landlords be of renting again? What is the actuarial cost of a renter given the recently increased government-imposed costs? What is a homeowner to think of the prospect of taking on a tenant, and if the tenant is a problem for any reason, it’ll be 1-2 years of nothing but expenses and resentment before the tenant can be expelled from their home? How many potential rental properties, particularly sublets in standalone houses, are no longer available because the risk costs are too high?
I think it likely that recent government advocacy for tenant’s right has significantly reduced housing stock and raised property and rental costs for everybody. But hey…they’re trying to solve problems of housing availability and affordability.
It's one reason large corporations are coming in and replacing the small landlords.
Yes, and that is not a good thing...
This is possibly the first time, or at least one of the few times, I have agreed with prof Somin. It’s a very compelling legal argument. I just wonder - what would be the feasibility of a landlord suing the government to recoup his losses because the police wouldn't remove a squatter who stayed for months before being evicted?
I think we all have those types of buildings in our city, where it was bought by some developer five years ago, it was claimed that something new and better (usually something fancy for rich people) would be built on the site, and five years later, the property is still surrounded by "do not enter" signs but there’s still been absolutely nothing that’s actually been built there. The “squatter” situations often center around homeless people deciding to sleep in those properties. And, really, I have trouble feeling very sorry for the property owners there. The homeless are making more use of the property than the developers ever did.
Then they can stay in your place of abode.
A logical and inevitable consequence of giving a pass to those who break the law to enter the country. Break one law to enter the country, break another law to enter someone's property. What's the big deal? Hoist on your own petard, Ilya?
Simple, if the government does not have the power (Takings), the government can not grant the power. Get to SCOTUS, before the Constitution is meaningless!