The Volokh Conspiracy
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Nebraska Municipalities May Not Ban Guns from Public Parks, Trails, and Sidewalks
So concludes the Nebraska AG's office, partly based on Nebraska state law and partly based on the constitutional right to keep and bear arms.
From Nebraska Attorney General's Opinion no. 23-009, released Dec. 15, 2023 but just posted on Westlaw:
Municipalities lack authority to regulate the possession of firearms and certain weapons in quintessential public spaces, such as parks, trails, and sidewalks. A statute enacted in 2023, L.B. 77, deprives municipalities of regulatory authority over the possession of firearms or other weapons. And municipalities cannot use their common law proprietary authority to evade this regulatory restriction. Additionally, a blanket ban on firearms possession in such spaces would infringe constitutional rights under the Second Amendment and the Nebraska Constitution.
This year, the Legislature passed L.B. 77, which, after becoming law, significantly changes the way the possession, carriage, and sale of firearms and other weapons are regulated in Nebraska. Relevant here, L.B. 77 declared the regulation of the "ownership, possession, storage, transportation, sale, and transfer" of weaponry to be a "matter of statewide concern" and stripped municipalities of nearly all regulatory authority in that space. In the wake of L.B. 77's passage, several Nebraska municipalities [including Omaha and Lincoln] have issued executive orders that purport to restrict or ban the possession of weaponry on property the municipality owns or controls. These orders include public buildings (such as courthouses), and in some cases expand beyond buildings to include quintessential public places that are usually held open to the public at large, such as parks, trails, and sidewalks.
You have asked whether existing law "prevent[s] Nebraska municipalities from regulating the possession of firearms and other weapons in public spaces, e.g., public parks, trails, and sidewalks." It does. You have also asked whether additional legislation would be necessary to prevent municipalities from regulating weapon possession in these places. None is needed. Municipal action— regardless of the form it takes (enacted ordinance, executive order, informal policy, etc.)—that restricts or bans the possession of weaponry in quintessential public spaces, like those public places identified in your opinion request (parks, trails, sidewalks, and the like), violates at least two rules of law.
First, L.B. 77 forbids municipalities from "regulat[ing] the … possession [[and] transportation … of firearm or other weapons, except as expressly provided by state law." The public spaces identified in your request are not public buildings or like areas where municipal corporations can properly exercise significant common law ""proprietary' authority; as such, restrictions on weapon possession in places such as parks, trails, and sidewalks necessarily are regulatory in nature. No matter the form of the restriction nor the way in which it is described, these prohibitions are in conflict with L.B. 77.
Second, there is an individual constitutional right to bear arms in public secured by the constitutions of the United States and the State of Nebraska. Thus, even if a municipality possessed and could properly exercise proprietary authority over quintessential public spaces such as parks, trails, and sidewalks, a total ban or significant restriction on the possession of weaponry would violate those constitutionally protected rights.
Here's more from the constitutional discussion:
Both the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article I, Section 1, of the Nebraska Constitution secure the right of Nebraska citizens ""to keep and bear arms." …
That said, not every exercise of municipal proprietary authority that restricts firearm or other weapon possession is unconstitutional. Both Bruen and Heller recognized that there are some "sensitive places" where it is constitutionally permissible for the possession of weapons to be "altogether prohibited." "Courthouses" along with "legislative assemblies" and "polling places" have been offered as examples, Bruen, 597 U.S. at 30, as have "schools and government buildings." The precise scope of the doctrine remains unsettled: Bruen rejected an overly broad conception—any location where "people typically congregate and where law-enforcement … professionals are presumptively available"—but left the task of outlining a ""comprehensive definition" to a later date….
[T]he fact that one portion of an executive order or other municipal action is unconstitutional does not necessarily render that action unlawful in its entirety. Many public buildings where government business is conducted can be fairly described as "public places;" some, like courthouses, are even presumptively open to members of the public. But there are many obvious and material differences between a courtroom and a public park or trail or sidewalk. That a municipality cannot constitutionally ban the possession of firearms or other weapons in a park or on its sidewalks does not mean that weapons must be allowed in the public gallery of a courtroom or other sensitive place.
Because your question is addressed to public spaces such as parks, trails, and sidewalks, not public buildings, this Opinion does not address where the "sensitive places" line exactly lies, which is a subject of ongoing jurisprudential and scholarly debate. Because state law already prohibits municipalities from regulating firearm possession, it suffices for present purposes to note that the sensitive places doctrine is but one of several possible reasons why constitutional limitations on the possession of weaponry may differ across various locations that can fairly be described as a "public space." …
Existing law prevents Nebraska municipalities from regulating the possession of firearms or other weapons in public spaces like those identified in your opinion request, namely "public parks, trails, and sidewalks." Municipalities have sharply limited proprietary authority over these spaces, and L.B. 77 deprived municipalities of all regulatory authority over the possession of weaponry. Consequently, municipalities have no lawful means of restricting or prohibiting the possession of firearms or other weapons there.
Furthermore, the right to publicly bear arms for self-defense provides a constitutional backstop that would preclude a blanket prohibition on weapon possession in those spaces, regardless of whether a municipality sought to implement such a restriction or prohibition by way of regulation or through an exercise of its common law proprietary authority.
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By all means, let's not let municipalities make their own ordinances.
Subsidiarity at my level, not yours.
By all means, let's not let states make their own laws which govern municipalities.
Or mayhaps you'd like to extend your understanding of federalism down to the neighborhood and individual level, seeing as how you don't believe in following actual state laws and state constitutions. Let individuals set their own laws for bearing arms, which will trump city laws.
bernard11: Just to be clear, there is no general rule of "subsidiarity" in American state-and-local-government law. On some matters, state law leaves discretion with cities and counties; on others, state law preempts city and county rules. The decisions are policy judgments, which may vary from topic to topic and from state to state. Those judgments may turn on various matters, such as whether the state legislatures views certain questions as a matter of human rights, or whether it thinks it important that people who travel throughout the state not have to worry about different rules in different towns.
One can certainly argue that local discretion should be apt in this field, like in some fields where local discretion is common (e.g., zoning) but unlike in other fields that are usually supposed to be uniform throughout the state (e.g., tort liability). But generalities about "subsidiarity" don't really resolve such questions.
EV,
Thanks for the response.
I am aware that in many cases, including probably this one, the state has every legal right to override municipal laws. My point was not a legal one.
Rather, I was pointing out that many of those who advocate for federalism, etc. on policy rather than legal grounds, and sing the praises of letting affected individuals make policy choices, have no trouble approving of this sort of thing when the state policy pleases them.
We see this repeatedly in matters of anti-discrimination ordinances, election procedures, environmental rules, school policies, on and on.
Let's just say it's not a good look. We hear a lot of pompous language about this general issue, but that's all it is.
Getting to infringe an actual civil liberty the state wants upheld is probably the worst use case for subsidiarity imaginable, though.
OK, but even if I agreed with you about gun rights this case is an exception.
Most other examples do not involve Constitutional rights.
"Most other examples do not involve Constitutional rights."
Such as?
What do you imagine your agreement has to do with, here? Gun rights aren't a civil liberty because of anybody's opinion about them. Not mine, yours, or the ACLU's. They're a civil liberty because they're literally guaranteed as a right by the text of an amendment in the federal Bill of Rights.
And the Nebraska bill of rights, too. It's first article:
"All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the right to keep and bear arms for security or defense of self, family, home, and others, and for lawful common defense, hunting, recreational use, and all other lawful purposes, and such rights shall not be denied or infringed by the state or any subdivision thereof. To secure these rights, and the protection of property, governments are instituted among people, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
See that "or any subdivision thereof"? The Nebraska state constitution explicitly rejects subsidiarity in the matter of infringing rights, including specifically and at great length this particular right.
This decision was over-determined even if the state hadn't passed a preemption law.
Brett,
Did you understand what I said? I don't think so. Let me try again.
The fact that this case concerned gun rights is irrelevant to my point.
I agree that the state, or the federal government, should protect Constitutional rights. It's a no-brainer.
Please read that again. I'll wait.
My point was that too many *"federalists" or whatever are happy to see the state interfere with municipal governments on non-Constitutional matters, so long as they agree with the state's policy.
(*I repeat what I've said before. "Federalism smacks strongly of States' Rights rebranded.)
You understand that "Federalism" refers to a "federal" system of government, with states and a national government, as legally organized.
And does not refer to various municipal, town, or county governments under a state. Which is not a federal system of government.
Right?
Bernard11,
There’s a big difference. States are sovereign entities, sovereign before the Constitution created the federal government, with their own independent right to exist. They are not simply federal provinces. But municipalities are not like that. They ARE nothing more than state provinces. They are purely creatures of the state. The state creates them, gives them whatever rights and powers they have, and takes away whatever rights and powers it wants to take away whenever it wants. They don’t possess any inherent sovereignty of their own. There is no comparison between the two.
The difference arises from history, not from any fundamental logical foundation. But it is an important enough part of our history that people who think states should have more power but municipalities shouldn’t simply aren’t being hypocritical.
It’s no more fair to accuse people who believe in states rights but not municipal rights of being hypocritical “subsidiarists” than it is to accuse people who think the US federal government should have more power, but who are skeptical of unitary world government, of being hypocritical “centralists.”
One position is no more inherently inconsistent than the other. Or rather, no human system of government is ever perfectly consistent. Levels of government, and what level what kinds of decisions should get made at are, like most aspects of government, just not susceptible to any universal, one-size-fits-all formula.
I think there is an argument that serious crimes need to have some minimum granularity.
If a town enacts its own regulations on homeowners keeping chickens, that's OK, because to violate the law you have to be a resident who (presumably) is aware of the law.
But suppose some tiny municipality, say, make possession of paprika a felony and catches you driving through on your way to a family picnic with deviled eggs. Or narrow bumper height restrictions that many cars that are legal elsewhere violate, etc, etc.
It's one thing to say 'tough luck on your prison sentence, but ignorance of the law is no excuse' when the law is at least state wide, but that gets less and less practical when every tiny municipality has unfettered freedom to enact any law at all.
If you don't like guns, fine, but imagine that you, say, own a Toyota Camry with a 120 mph speedometer (even if the car won't go that fast). You have no idea that Smallville a couple of counties over enacted a simple, common sense requirement that speedometers not be calibrated over 80 mph, with a penalty of 5 years for the first offense, and are now sitting in an orange jump suit. Does it still seem like a good idea that Smallville can enact any laws it likes?
But that doesn't mean every law needs to be uniform nationwide either; Minnesota and Louisiana may have good reason to have different laws about, I dunno, tire chains or snow tires. You don't want too much or too little granularity.
You don’t want too much or too little granularity.
I agree with this, which is why I am not a fan of taking ideological, rather than analytical approaches to (many, not all) policy issues.
Government toyed with requiring governors (in cars) to regulate max speed to help oil use concerns. They quickly backed down once some pointed out you may need to go really fast to flee something, like the guy careening down an erupting Mt. St. Helens at well over 80, passing a guy going only 60, who did no make it.
I approve of your turn to the decentralization side of politics, and eagerly await its extension down to the individual level, since it is, as you say, a moral point, not a legal one.
1. I did not "turn to the decentralization side of politics." I merely pointed out that some who are on that side seem willing to abandon it whenever convenient.
2. I do not agree that it is a "moral point," since many of the matters are complex. I think it is a question of dealing with individual issues intelligently, and not letting ideology dictate our approach. A given issue may be best handled at the state or federal level. Saying "I am a federalist, so we should leave it up to the states," is silly.
Out of curiosity, are you an advocate of federalism?
Depends entirely on your precise definition.
For constitutional rights there should be be nationwide uniformity, at least for common situations. As has been pointed out someone can pass through multiple local jurisdictions in a daily commute and running errands, it shouldn’t be the case that someone is perfectly within the law at the start of their journey, then become a criminal subject to arrest 5 miles away.
Someone driving from Philadelphia to Manchester NH shouldn’t be in similar peril, or actually worse because municipal laws won't be felonies. Taking an emergency bathroom break in NY or NJ shouldn't get you a 5 year prison sentence. Or having your flight cancelled and the airline dumping your baggage on you unexpectedly.
Taking an emergency bathroom break in NY or NJ shouldn’t get you a 5 year prison sentence. Or having your flight cancelled and the airline dumping your baggage on you unexpectedly.
I suspect you are talking about the issue of guns in this context. If so, I certainly agree, as I would if the matter were drugs or a whole host of other things.
This actually has happened. People on an airplane intending to go from Point A to Point B -- both of which where their guns would be legal -- unexpectedly were diverted to Point C where their guns weren't and wound up in serious trouble.
For example, you are flying from Richmond, VA to Bangor ME to go hunt Moose --- flying OVER both NY & MA where your guns are not legal but that's not an issue. Except that something happens -- some drunk causes trouble, something breaks on the airplane, BIA (Bangor) is closed because of weather and you wind up instead landing in Logan (Boston) and you are now a criminal.
This happens....
But of course that is the case, here is one fairly famous example:
https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20150403_Christie_pardons_Phila__mom_snagged_by_N_J__gun_law.html
And here is another:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/traveling-mans-gun-arrest-appealed-to-supreme-court
Even after Bruen these prosecutions can still happen.
Yes. I know. (Though "still happen" is not quite an accurate description of cases from 2011 and 2015. Aren't there more recent incidents that can be used to stir outrage?)
And it may surprise you to learn that I don't like them. Prosecutors seeking headlines don't appeal to me.
What would you like me to do about it?
Throw such prosecutors in jail?
However much we may disapprove of a prosecution, we can't punish a prosecutor (except politically) for bringing a case built on an actual statute.
OTOH, I do think prosecutorial misconduct is often treated far too lightly, and that some should incur severe punishment up to and including imprisonment, after, of course, conviction in a criminal trial with standard safeguards and rules.
"we can’t punish a prosecutor (except politically) for bringing a case built on an actual statute."
Ah, actually? You probably could, under 18 U.S.C. § 242. But you'd need the prosecutor to be on notice that the law was unconstitutional.
Big if.
Support a federal law allowing the interstate right to keep and bear arms.
Unlike many other federal solutions to problems this would be perfectly within Congress’ power under both the commerce clause and the Article 1 Section 8 Militia clause.
As has been pointed out someone can pass through multiple local jurisdictions in a daily commute and running errands, it shouldn’t be the case that someone is perfectly within the law at the start of their journey, then become a criminal subject to arrest 5 miles away.
Kazinski, that will only settle the question to your satisfaction if the universal standard gets interpreted to mean you get to impose the interpretation you prefer. My preference would be for different standards in different states, with each state at liberty to optimize the interpretation to tailor it to its own residents’ preferences. That has the advantage, by the way, of being the historically relevant originalist basis for interpreting 2A gun rights.
But if you insist, no, it has to be alike everywhere, I feel strongly that you get to leave your gun at home, if you plan to travel to my state where its carriage might be banned. And that can be the standard applied alike everywhere.
If you disagree, perhaps that helps you understand why what you propose is not a solution.
I don't want my interpretation imposed, I want the law of the land to control throughout the land.
You seem to be channelling John Calhoun's nullification theory which was settled in 1833, when South Carolina declared the Federal tariffs enacted in 1832 were nullified in their state.
The right of the people to keep and bear arms is a civil right, what other civil rights should states be able to interpret or nullify as they see fit?
Kazinski, like all American rights, the right you refer to was enacted and ratified within a specific limited framework, in this case the militia clause. That framework has since been modified and expanded by methods akin to living constitutionalism—but dishonestly masquerading as originalism.
I do not need further proof from you to be certain that you will shift ground and argue whatever seems most convenient, if I propose to agree with your take, but insist that the methods used to arrive at present interpretations remain open for future use by advocates of my preferences. That you will deny.
As you have just done, you will always spurn proposals to solve state-by-state disagreements over what gun rights limitations are legitimate. You will do that while paradoxically asserting in one head-spinning sentence two opposite interpretations, just to make sure you are never without something to match whatever rhetorical need you might encounter.
Your arguments have nothing to do with principle.
The right of the people to keep and bear arms is a civil right, what other civil rights should states be able to interpret or nullify as they see fit?
Answer: All the civil rights which work like the right to use a gun for self-defense, which was left out of the 2A deliberately, to free the states to tailor it as they preferred, in their own laws and constitutions.
The right is unambiguously "the right of the people to keep and bear arms.", for any lawful purpose, including self defense.
"A well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state," is why the federal government thought it was essential to preserve that right in the constitution.
Nobody tries to come up with a list of the valid reasons to use freedom of speech, except it can't facilitate crime, just as there is no protection for using guns in a crime. Or a list of valid religions that deserve protections. Even child porn is protected from unreasonable searches under the 4th amendment, and paedophiles are read their rights under the 5th.
Just as freedom of speech can be used for any legal purpose so can guns, and self defense is a legal purpose.
So it is a 4-step analysis:
1. You do not make up history.
2. You pretend to make up history.
3. You announce that whatever pretend process you use is the mandatory basis for the governing legal principle.
4. So henceforth, to be legitimate, all arguments must use and rely on your pretend process.
Come to think of it, that is exactly the method laid down as mandatory by Bruen.
EV -- we are going to see more of this as center cities increasingly become places where people have to go to but where they don't reside and hence can't vote.
Boston a century ago dealt with this -- because of a county line, it couldn't incorporate any more of the adjacent municipalities (as other cities continued to do through the 20th Century) and thus there was the situation where the Brahman WASPs, who needed to be in Boston for business, couldn't vote in Boston. So they went to the General Court (legislature) where they had equal representation with the Boston Irish and got laws passed that either outright prohibited Boston from passing certain ordinances or (more often) required the General Court to approve them.
My guess is that the cities in Nebraska making an issue of gun possession are blue pimples in a sea of red -- and that it's the greater number of people in the surrounding area (outside the cities) that got these laws passed.
And the flip side of this, if you want to talk "good government" is moving the courthouses (etc.) out to some rural community where they have no problem with open carry (in courthouses) and saying that the state had no right to say "umm, umm" because the local voters decided that a criminal defendant ought to be able to carry a loaded 12 gauge into court with them.
Of course, if one wanted to respond to Bernard’s complaint with something other than an unnecessarily condescending pedantry, one might concede that conservatives don’t necessarily take a principled approach to “subsidiarity,” and will tend to invoke it only where it suits them.
But I think we’re well beyond the point of expecting anything other than question-begging from you, Eugene.
As I've remarked before, expecting principled consistency from groups, as opposed to individuals, is a mistake. Every individual 'conservative', (Loosely defined, as that term is.) could individually have a principled approach to subsidiarity, (Hypothetically, anyway.) and "conservatives" as a group might still be all over the map.
Not that I'd be stupid enough to claim that everybody in the "conservative" corner of the room is actually principled. That sort of principled, reasoned approach to things is pretty rare across the entire political space, liberals included.
I'm sorry, Brett, are we not talking about a political group that takes, as a central belief, that less government is better than more government, and the devolution of power is to be preferred over centralization?
Liberals don't have any prior commitments to how power should be organized. They will argue in favor of centralization where it furthers their policy commitments, and be open to devolution where it is more useful. It is conservatives who claim - superficially, at any rate - to believe that governmental interference into our lives should be kept to a minimum, and subject to direct accountability and control of the governed.
If you believe that state governments have a role in ensuring that state citizens should enjoy certain fundamental rights and liberties without being encumbered in different ways depending on where within the state they happen to be - well, fine, but this logically implies that the same should apply at the federal level. But whether conservatives will accept that implication completely depends on whether they seek to expand or restrict the right or freedom in question. So we find that things like gun rights and freedom of religion ought to be settled at the federal level, while rights to bodily autonomy and intimate relationships is better handled at the state level.
And no, that's not some incoherence brought about by the "conservative" umbrella picking up people with different priorities and political philosophies. That is the worldview of many individual conservatives, including likely yourself, as well as too many members of our Supreme Court. You will complain in one breath about how a state that permits regulation of firearms on a municipal level is one with a patchwork approach to fundamental rights, but then in the very next breath point to a patchwork approach to abortion rights and gender-affirming care as just an appropriately democratic approach to social standards and mores that are continuing to evolve.
As I've said before, Brett - for you, MAGA, and conservatives - it's never about principles or ideological coherence. It's just about power and where you might happen to wield it any particular point in time.
"political group that takes, as a central belief, that less government is better than more government, and the devolution of power is to be preferred over centralization?"
Actually Conservatives would subscribe to the first, but not necessarily the second. Which certainly is not the same "central belief". In fact a reasonable reading of the tenth amendment would exclude municipalities from having any power over the people whatsoever, unless expressly delegated by the state legislature or constitution: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
In fact I think it would be entirely constitutional for a state not to even allow municipal governments since the Republican Government clause only guarantees a state democratic republic, not that I'd approve of that.
But I might approve of only allowing municipalities and counties to enforce state laws and not allow any locally defined infractions at all, without violating my conservative principles, or the constitution.
But we could play that game all day: you define what my conservative principles are for me, then make me justify all sorts of policies and outcomes I approve of; then I define your liberal principles for you and make you defend your policy preferences.
Ted, the question isn’t a constitutional one. Conservatives favor devolution, not because they’ve read it into a few stray references in the Constitution like an amateur whackadoodle submitting amicus briefs for landmark cases before the Supreme Court, but because this both minimizes the need for government bureaucracy and permits citizens to shape their own lives.
Your head on this isn’t straight because you’ve been outcome-primed to be thinking about gun rights. But think about it in different terms, like zoning, school curricula, property taxes, noise and nuisance ordinances, and so on. Conservative principles would dictate that communities should be able to tend to these issues on as local a basis as possible.
Of course – and again, this has been my point – that is something they’ll argue only when they’re trying to protect red towns and rural districts from blue governors or state legislatures. They’ll flip to silly arguments about “state’s rights,” like you do, when it comes to state-level control of local issues, like DeSantis and Abbott have been asserting in their respective states.
It’s all about cities passing ordinances that lift a middle finger at the state, and spending their own taxpayers’ money to be proven dead wrong. They are will to have skin taken off others’ noses but not their own. How many get drummed out of office? Very few…
I gather the rule in Nebraska is like the rule in Colorado: a home rule city can overrule the state legislature on matters of local concern and the legislature can overrule the city on matters of statewide concern. The Colorado legislature was able to force the home rule city of Black Rock to allow through bicycle traffic. Although traffic laws are ordinarily of local concern, a policy generally allowing bicycles on public roads was considered a legitimate statewide interest.
a home rule city can overrule the state legislature on matters of local concern and the legislature can overrule the city on matters of statewide concern.
This is a sensible idea but as always the devil is in the details.
It ultimately depends on state constitution. (The U.S. Constitution would only be concerned if a policy violates guaranteed rights or exceeds the Article I, Section 10 limitations, but then it would not matter if it was enacted by a town council or a state legislature)
Why did Black Rock want to keep bicyclists off its thru streets?
From searching, I see John F. Carr must've meant Black Hawk, and that led to the answer. Yeah, with terrain like that it'd be tough to build a parallel bike route or to widen the street, so something had to give. They decided the casino traffic was more lucrative to their town than the bike traffic.
Black Rock ESG doesn't want anybody to drive, so they'd probably be fine with converting all the streets to bike lanes.
An ordinance should or must be justified as to the absolute reason for it, and not simply "just because it's the right thing to do."
What are the stats to justify any law ?
Looking busy is not an excuse for restricting freedom, such as the vindictive nature of legal actions taken against peaceful protesters at the US Capitol on 1/6/21. That they were attacked without any warning is a violation against the peaceful crowd and an attack on all Americans. Moreso, is the 'adding on' effect to increase penalties in violation of A8, especially when the crimes of the Capitol police are ignored, including the out right murder of Babbitt.
This new age of pedantic twisting of law to find a 'criminal,' a some sort of childish and anal behavior reduces overall effectiveness of law in the larger scope to the future conductance of order. Whatever its goal, all should resist it voraciously.
If I want to walk on public trails, I suppose I have to take a gun with me now. Otherwise some crazy person exercising his 2A “rights” might mow me down and after I’m dead with no chance to tell my side of the story he will cite the “stand your ground” law and claim that he had no choice to shoot me after I attacked him with my bare hands.
Sensational fiction is a sad excuse for an argument.
As is your right.
As does the name Trayvon Martin ring a a bell? Or what was said about him by Barack Obama and Bill DeBlasio?
You plan on ambushing someone, beating them to the ground, then mounting and bashing their head against stones?
Perhaps you should try not being a violent criminal attempting serious bodily harm against an armed victim, if you don't want to get shot in the process.
Captcrisis lives in the fictional alternate universe where Zimmerman violated Martin's rights by sharing a sidewalk with him and looking at him, then ambushed him, viciously beating him about the knuckles with his face, escalated to using the sidewalk to increase the power of his blows, and then growing bored with the assault, shot him.
If that happened today, there'd be video of it.
And since there's not, there's a lot of BS being spread.
Brett lives in an alternate universe where made up "facts" that support his opinions prove him right.
Point out the made up fact. Martin's only injuries were scuffed up knuckles and a gunshot wound. Zimmerman's face and the back of his head were a mess.
Any sane person looking at that would realize that Martin attacked Zimmerman; It's not like Martin could have delivered that beatdown AFTER being shot!
I realize that this became something of a political cause, and that rendered the actual facts politically inconvenient, and maybe the deliberately deceptive initial coverage fooled you, but face those facts anyway: Martin attacked Zimmerman, and got shot to death while in the process of punching Zimmerman's head into the pavement. And NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING, Zimmerman had done was legally provocation, even under the worst plausible interpretation.
It's fully reasonable to think the kid was upset at being followed, for a reasonable assumption of racist reasons. Then the guy got out of the car and started playing papers, please.
Martin ambushed Zimmerman when Zimmerman was on his way back to his car – according to the testimony of the person that was on the phone with Martin at the time.
At NO point did Zimmerman “play papers, please” or even initiate speech with Martin at all.
IOW, there was a fight and Martin was winning, so Zimmerman shot him.
OK. I actually think the acquittal was justified, given the uncertainty about the events leading up to the fight, but let's not pretend that Zimmerman didn't provoke the whole incident.
The guy acted like a macho asshole. From my POV he behaved somewhat similarly to those racist bastards in GA who killed Ahmaud Arbery. The big difference, of course, is the lack of video in the Martin case. Fortunately, in GA, the killers were stupid enough not only to take a video but to hand it over.
The Trayvon Martin that jumped George Zimmerman and tried to kill him by pounding his head into the ground? That Trayvon Martin?
LMFAO
Paranoid much?
LMFAO
Wow! Are you full of shit.
About 15 years ago a railroad gave up it's right of way. Instead of the land reverting back to the landowners (as it should have) a group got a Judge to give the right of way to them. They then put a trail on it. So now you have people who own land on both sides of the trail. Laws like the ones that we are discussing would make it illegal for the owner to cross the trail with a weapon. I'm not even going to go into the number of trails that are followed or crossed by hunters.
Here's another curveball. I've been doing some property line research lately. I've found that at least in my area, that my property line ends into the middle of the road in front of my house. The State has the right of way for the road and the Municipality has a right of way for the sidewalk. If I don't use my driveway and park in front of my house, I'd violate the law every time I got into my vehicle. I could be cited for carrying a weapon on the sidewalk even though the sidewalk is MY PROPERTY.
All of this sounds trivial at the moment, but now you have the "By any means necessary" crowd. How long before it isn't trivial?
Nothing you mention could not be tailored to your satisfaction by state-by-state gun rights interpretations.
If what follows does not apply to you, assume it does apply to others:
My guess is that you know that, but prefer to impose your preferences on people in other states. You hope to get a court to do that, instead of trying to do it in a politically accountable way. And to convince a court to do it, you will have to convince the court to violate the historically accurate originalist interpretation of the 2A, which did leave states at liberty to tailor gun rights to the preferences of their own citizens.
Last time I checked the Second Amendment superseded States "gun rights". "shall not be infringed" is the key phrase. I'm forcing nothing on anybody and the Courts should be enforcing the Second as it is written.
The line "Here's more from the constitutional discussion:" is (as of this writing) part of the extended block quote. Should it be?