The Volokh Conspiracy
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Immigration Could Reduce the Deficit by at Least $1 Trillion Over the Next Ten Years
But the Congressional Budget Office projection assumes we will not cut immigration levels, as is likely to happen if Trump returns to power.

One standard rationale for immigration restrictions is the idea that immigrants overburden the welfare state, thereby increasing fiscal burdens on natives. In reality, just the opposite is true. Immigration actually reduces those burdens, on net. A new Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report estimates that immigration will reduce the federal budget deficit by some $1 trillion over the next ten years. Reason's Eric Boehm summarizes the implications:
Higher levels of immigration are boosting America's economy and will reduce the deficit by about $1 trillion over the next decade.
In its semi-annual forecast of the country's fiscal and economic conditions, released this week, the Congressional Budget Office slightly lowered its expectations for this year's federal budget deficit. The CBO now expects the federal government to run a $1.5 trillion deficit, down from the $1.6 trillion deficit previously forecast.
That reduction is due in part to higher-than-expected economic growth, which the CBO attributes to "more people working." The labor force has grown by 5.2 million people in the past year, "mostly because of higher net immigration."
More immigrants will also help reduce future budget deficits—which are expected to average $2 trillion annually over the next 10 years, meaning any help is desperately needed.
The changes in the labor force over the past year will translate into $7 trillion in greater economic output over the next decade, the CBO estimates, "and revenues will be greater by about $1 trillion than they would have been otherwise…."
"The higher growth rate of potential GDP over the next five years stems mainly from rapid growth in the labor force, reflecting a surge in the rate of net immigration," concludes the CBO, which expects higher than normal levels of immigration through at least 2026.
Of course, this isn't exactly rocket science. More workers equals more economic output and more growth, which in turn leads to more tax revenue to help offset some of the federal government's seemingly insatiable appetite for spending. Sometimes economics can be quite confusing, but that formula is about as straightforward as can be.
America's current population is trending older, which strains old-age entitlement programs and means fewer productive workers in the economy. Thankfully, that's not true of the country's immigrants: "A large proportion of recent and projected immigrants are expected to be 25 to 54 years old—adults in their prime working years…"
It also tracks with what other studies have repeatedly shown: More legal immigration grows the economy, helps fund government programs, and doesn't strain entitlement or welfare programs.
As Boehm notes, CBO likely underestimates the beneficial fiscal effects of immigration, because the agency is not allowed to use "dynamic" scoring to assess them. In addition, CBO does not consider immigrants' disproportionate contributions to entrepreneurship, innovation, and scientific research, all of which further boost economic growth and productivity, and thereby also improve the government's fiscal position.
There is, however, one important caveat to CBO's otherwise optimistic assessment: it assumes immigration will remain roughly at current or even higher levels at least through 2026. That's unlikely to happen if Donald Trump returns to power and carries out his plans to drastically reduce immigration - including the legal kind. During his previous term, Trump cut legal immigration in half. He actually had much more success on that front than when it comes to the illegal kind. In a second term, Trump would likely go even farther. The predictable result will be lower economic growth, less entrepreneurship and innovation, and significantly higher deficits.
Biden's presidency has been a mixed bag, at best. His fiscal record is highly problematic. But one of his most important achievements was returning immigration to pre-Trump/pre-pandemic levels. If Trump returns to power, he would likely reverse that.
Obviously, fiscal effects are not the only possible justifications for cutting immigration. Restrictionists can still argue for reducing it on the grounds that immigrants increase crime, damage political institutions, make bad decisions at the ballot box after they become voters, spread harmful cultural values, and so on. If such harms are great enough, they could outweigh even very large beneficial fiscal effects. I address these and other rationales for restrictionism in detail in Chapters 5 and 6 of my book Free to Move: Foot Voting, Migration, and Political Freedom.
But supposedly adverse fiscal effects are still a significant restrictionist talking point, especially among those who consider themselves libertarians or fiscal conservatives. The CBO report adds to the already extensive evidence showing that such concerns are not only misplaced, but counterproductive. Far from increasing the fiscal burden on natives, immigration actually reduces it.
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"In reality, just the opposite is true."
That's not what they say in New York.
That's not what they say in Texas.
That's not what they say in California.
That's not what they say in New Mexico.
That's not what they say in Arizona.
People say lots of things. Vox populi is not vox Dei.
The question is, what does the research say? One of the theoretical functions of politicians is to be well-enough informed that they can correct the misapprehensions of the voters. Unfortunately in reality voters generally don’t want to be corrected and won’t pay attention, and meanwhile politicians are not rewarded if they make the attempt.
Do you really think that GOP voters want to be informed that immigrants are a net plus? Do you really think that any GOP candidate with a chance of winning major office at Federal or state level is going to inform them - if they can even be bothered to inform themselves?
In fairness, I expect the same response on other matters as far as Democrats are concerned, e.g., wrt guns and gun control.
"People say lots of things. Vox populi is not vox Dei.'
Absolutely, how could anyone disagree with this ? Since the CBO tells me it is a net gain and Somin even gives a link that it "doesn't strain entitlement or welfare programs.", I am completely willing to take the Progs at face value here.
We need a dedicated program to ship even more illegal migrants to blue sanctuary cities. Since their own research shows it is an economic plus and doesn't strain social welfare systems, no further cash needs to be sent to those (D) controlled cities. In fact, we should cut the amount they are already receiving since clearly the migrants are making them better off. Seems win/win to me.
Accepting them naturally means processing their entry. It does not mean putting them on a bus on false pretenses and dumping them on the street in a city 1000 miles away.
You want Ill-legal Elian’s in someone elses backyard
They're being lied to, when they're told their destinations are official sanctuary cities? Do tell!
Your argument is that as you and others jes' knows that immigrants are the devil, any research showing otherwise must be wrong and the researches must be progressives.
Yes you provide no evidence to counter the CBO, nor any of bias within the CBO.
They are not a NET plus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are cheap labor, and there is nothing more expensive than cheap labor. They are subsidized via our social net, they get free healthcare, and the biggest expense is their children whom we must teach in a language other than English and who inevitably have special needs.
Let's just pay Americans a living wage and call it done.
Argument by exclamation mark, yet?
Let’s just pay Americans a living wage and call it done.
First, requiring that is on the left of the economic spectrum. Second, even when there is a living wage on offer it does not mean that there are the workers to fill those jobs.
The rest of your post is simply unevidenced assertion, to which I apply Hitchen's Razor.
there are plenty pf people willing to work if you pay them enough.
"there are plenty pf people willing to work if you pay them enough."
...sooo...they're not willing to work. Maybe you can visit one and see how much you will have to pay?
Report back your findings. You may have the makings of a system for raising labor participation. And all it takes is money. Why didn't anybody else think of that?
Hell yeah - this is an even further left suggestion than a living wage.
"Let’s just pay Americans a living wage and call it done."
Yes, yes. Let's. Have you selected an hour rate yet? Which of us will be paying how much, for what, when?
sheesh.
Yes, all them brown people are just retarded, per Dr. Ed.
Yet another field in which Dr. Ed is an expert!
You didn’t answer his question, just slung excrement.
Um, setting aside that I treat honest people seriously and serial fabricators like you and Dr. Ed as serial fabricators, there was no "question."
"People say lots of things. Vox populi is not vox Dei. The question is, what does the research say?"
Hate to break it to you, but science isn't the voice of God, either.
Says some guy who probably isn’t God…
That’s not what they say in New York.
No, it's not what Mayor Adams says. Adams is complaining loudly about the burdens imposed by migrants because he wants to shift the politics to enable a change in law that will just make the problem more visible and upsetting for New Yorkers.
Not too long ago, he announced a series of budget cuts ostensibly necessitated by paying for shelter for migrants in the city. But as the weeks have passed, many of these cuts have been unwound as he's talked to city council members. Apparently his numbers were over-hyped and just a bargaining chip to try to battle other policy changes pushed by the council, including a law requiring the NYPD to track the demographics of its stops for low-level offenses.
Maybe don't believe what FoxNews tells you. The people who work there know the truth, but are paid to lie about it.
Once here, immigrants, even if they sneak in illegally, are harder working and (for obvious reasons) more law-abiding than ordinary Americans. They are far from "poisoning our blood" to quote Hitler (sorry, I meant Trump). They are enriching it.
Not proven by recent events.
And by the way, Immigration is a legal process to allow foreigners entry into this country. Quite different from the millions of illegal aliens that the current administration has allowed to enter over the last three years.
Most immigrants who come to the United States do not have a legal process to follow because immigration quotas make it all but impossible to come to the United States legally.
From the front page of yesterday's Boston newspaper:
https://www.bostonherald.com/2024/02/09/migrants-eligible-for-30000-housing-assistance-boost/
They are underpricing working class Americans who actually pay taxes - and they don't.
It's a class issue -- if you want someone to mow your lawn, you like illegal aliens. If you mow your own lawn, you are tired of them. And if you used to mow lawns for a living, you are fucked...
"They are underpricing working class Americans who actually pay taxes – and they don’t."
Not true.
You knew this was not true, and you posted it anyway. Why?
Because it IS true.
They pay sales tax, the most regressive tax that there is. That's just for starters.
And pay less of it, per capita, than most other citizens.
They pay less for property taxes, because they live in the less expensive housing.
They pay little in gas taxes
Then they go to the emergency room for whatever, and in a two-hour visit cost the system more than they make in three months. Money that is not reimbursed by them, and cannot be collected from them.
Their children go to schools - which costs considerably - $10k per student per year on average? The curriculum is modified to accommodate native language education, and children who don't need remedial english get put in them to balance the classes out/
And lets not forget the crime/enforcement/judicial/incarceration cabal....more than 50% of the prisoners in California jails are illegals, I understand. $30k a year per illegal?
"more than 50% of the prisoners in California jails are illegals,"
I looked at that. I don't have hard numbers but this article says:
"Most inmates in California were born in the United States—81.4%..."
and definitionally people born in the U.S. are citizens (with minuscule exceptions, IIRC, for the kids of diplomats. perhaps?). And some of the 19% are probably naturalized citizens or legal immigrants. So 50% seems unlikely.
I found other sources for national numbers that weren't directly comparable, but at least in the same ballpark.
Thanks.
Right wing talking points are typically easy to knock over. Occasionally a left winger exaggerates, but there's no comparison. It's clear which side is more in touch with reality.
Partisan blinders work both ways, as your comment shows.
Thanks, Absaroka.
Also, from your link:
Most inmates in California were born in the United States—81.4%, more than the 65.4% of adult US-born Californians. By contrast, just 13.5% of the state’s prison population was born in another country (5.1% of inmates are of unknown national origin), while California’s adult immigrant population is 34.6%. Among prison inmates, 8.6% were born in Mexico and 3.7% were born in other countries. In California overall, 13.2% adult residents were born in Mexico, and 21.5% were born in other countries.
IOW, Flight-ER doc is a lying POS.
And if you continue reading, that understates it: "By contrast, just 13.5% of the state’s prison population was born in another country (5.1% of inmates are of unknown national origin),"
…who of course wouldn't be in prison.
I wonder, since California's official policy is to not cooperate with ICE in deporting alien criminals, and they've gone so far as to order private companies to warn their employees if ICE is planning a visit...
Are California's numbers here actually trustworthy? Or are they just taking everybody's word for their citizenship status? I could see it going either way.
Well, I found national numbers that were in the same ballpark.
What percentage of the population do you think are illegal immigrants? What fraction are A)going to do something prison-worthy - even an immigration opponent likely realizes that lots of the guys mowing lawns and roofing aren't hardened criminals, and B)get caught.
The claim wasn't that illegals are merely over represented, it was that 50% of inmates were illegals. It's pretty hard to make that math work.
Or, you could just be wrong in your assumptions, and the data that proves you wrong is reliable.
Victor Davis Hanson spike about the underground bartering system in California, which is not so "underground". A whole lot of sales tax is being circumvented.
Perhaps it would be a great experiment: let's vote on it... and, should the savings not materialize as predicted, require those who voted in favor to pay the difference.
I'm always amazed that those who predict "savings" and/or "revenue" make such predictions knowing that they will suffer no adverse consequences should such predictions fail to materialize. The Abbott Plan is helping to remedy that situation: by "fostering migration" to "sanctuary" jurisdictions, we are "helping" such jurisdictions reduce their costs, "save" money, and increase "revenue." It's odd that such "sanctuary" jurisdictions are finding a need for financial assistance -- surely, the leaders of such jurisdictions are liars, reaching for handouts which simply aren't necessary!!
Perhaps that suggests another experiment. Let's cut funding to "sanctuary" jurisdictions and allow them to fully and completely enjoy the "savings," "revenue," and "deficit reduction" before expanding such "savings" nationwide. They were leaders -- and it's time we let them enjoy the leadership and scholarship they have demonstrated!
Man, I would be so much richer if I didn't have to pay for all the debt created by insane things conservatives pushed for that I voted against.
Explaining the politics of sanctuary cities to internet trolls is maybe not worth the effort.
Suffice it to say that, as a New Yorker, I think a fair number of us would be happy to forgo federal assistance for dealing with the migrants coming here, if they could be permitted to work and we'd be allowed to retain our share of federal tax revenue to spend according to our own local prerogatives. But I imagine your hypothetical "plan" wouldn't involve that kind of even-handedness, would it? "Sanctuary" cities still pay taxes to support red states, still required to comply with federal law... not truly enabled to forge our own path on these issues. Right?
Rogers & Hart saw Somin coming nearly a century ago:
"But one of his most important achievements was returning immigration to pre-Trump/pre-pandemic levels."
How foolish of me to follow that link expecting to see an apples to apples comparison of pre and post Trump total immigration numbers... Rather than just another of your own open borders essays.
Here are the numbers pre-Trump and Trump's 1st year. As you can see, at no time between 2012 and 2017 did Southern border encounters exceed 70,000 a month. Most of the time they were below 50,000.
And here are the numbers post-Trump. At no time during Biden's term have southern border encounters gotten as LOW as the highest rate prior to Trump. They're actually several times higher.
Well, that's part of the picture, December's number being 300K per month, or 3.6M per year. Vs the usual 50K per month, or 600K per year.
The other part would be legal immigration. The all time high for legal immigration was recorded in 1991, at 1.8M that year. (HALF of what illegal immigration will total this year, at the current rate.) Prior to that spike, which began in '88, it had been well under 1 million a year for decades. After that spike it dropped again, and was at 1.2M per year in 2016. The low point during Trump's term was 2020, 707K per year; A rate so 'low' that it exceeded every year between 1921 and 1989.
In other words, all Trump did was maintain legal immigration in the range which was historically normal since '92. He didn't lift a finger to reduce it below that norm.
So far as I can determine using government sources, you're flatly wrong. Biden didn't restore pre-Trump levels of total immigration, he approximately tripled them.
Here's a link showing that legal immigration.
As you can see, Trump didn't do much to change legal immigration. Covid suppressed it for just one year, though not to unusually low numbers.
Everything Trump did was on the Illegal immigration front. You, of course, relentlessly conflate legal and illegal immigration.
Am I supposed to believe Ilya the liar over the progressive leftist mayors of NCY, Chicago and even MV when they declare that dealing with a tiny fraction of the problem Ilya supports will financially ruin them? This screed is just another example of some things being so stupid only an academic could believe them.
"The Capitalists will sell us the rope." You can't have civilization without civilized people. Just what the Left/Communists, like Somin, are counting on.
And who is screening the illegals? NO ONE!
And WHEN (not if) we have another terrorist attack -- or open war with these "little green men" -- then Nevile Chamberlin won't be the biggest schmuck in history.
Dr. Ed took that title long ago.
and Butterflies could fly out of my asshole, but I wouldn't bet on it
I suspect this is related to the mistaken study Somin won't give up on claiming that illegal aliens have a lower crime rate than Americans. Obviously if you're misattributing a lot of crime by illegal aliens to Americans, you're misattributing the related costs, too.
And, just as illegal aliens will lie about their immigration status if caught committing a crime, they'll lie about it when applying for government services. Using the identity theft illegal immigration drives... So the costs of government services get misattributed, too.
Pretend that illegal aliens aren't really committing crimes or collecting various forms of welfare, and they look all benefit, no cost. Ignoring costs does that...
Let's DEPORT ILYA!!!
Have you mellowed from machine guns to exiling American citizens for speech?
Well great, I can buy that its possible.
Lets do it legally then.
Its long been my contention that we should liberalize immigration for young women under 35.
They are of child bearing age
they work in fields in high demand like healthcare, child care,etc.
They have much lower crime rates than young males.
And they will offset the primarily male tech bros that are beneficiaries of the H1 B system.
You will get what happened in Quebec when France ran it.
Remember that the Quebecois culture was single men -- trapping mostly. (Arcadia was families, but that was where Nova Scotia is now.)
So they rounded up all the prostitutes in Paris and shipped them to Quebec, and each man had an opportunity to come aboard the ship and select a wife. And the women not taken were sent upriver to Montreal.
That's the type of women this would bring, and H1 B visa holders aren't going to be interested in them. So they'll get pregnant and be on welfare while raising criminals. No gain to the US.
You have to distinguish between push and pull. France was exporting to Canada the women they wanted rid of. That's push.
What you really want to liberalize are the K-1 visas, like my wife came over on, that's pull. Pull immigration ends up prioritizing the people the nation on the receiving end wants, not the people the nation on the providing end wants rid of.
With K-1 you get immigrants existing Americans want, and they're screened for crime rates, English literacy, education... And you still get the effect Kazinski is talking about.
Of course, feminists won't like the idea.
Liberalize K-1 visa? Its already.as liberal as you want it. No quotas, reasonable verification procedures. They have to give reasonable cause if they turn you down and you can appeal the decision.
And why wouldn't feminists like it? they can get a visa for their boy toy or girl toy too.
No its not. Hong Kong has run a system like that for.decades with few social problems.
There are several hundred thousand young women mainly from Indonesia and Philippines working in Hong Kong, although they are restricted as domestic workers and not allowed to work at businesses, at least legally.
And while prostitution is legal in HK (although brothels are not), prostitution is overwhelmingly dominated by Chinese.
I'm just spit balling here, but if you limit immigration to prostitutes, then you will get prostitutes.
Ah yes. This example from the mid-18th century is surely all we need to know.
When immigrants built America, they were subject to vile racism. "Irish Catholic Need Not Apply", "Gunea/WOP", etc.
Insults on the level of "Nigger."
NOW, Affirmative Retribution gives them jobs -- takes them from White Americans and gives the jobs to them.
Another day, another vile racial slur at the Volokh Conspiracy: Official “Legal” Blog of People Who Like Vile Racial Slurs
Some years back, there was an INS raid on an illegals working at a meat processing plant in the midwest --- they arrested just about EVERYONE working there and this made the TV news.
The next morning there was a line of AMERICANS at the front door applying for those jobs.
Really? I've seen reports from government and that industry groups don't dispute estimate that around half of all farm workers in the U.S. are undocumented immigrants. That puts U.S. born farm workers at about 1/4 of the total, since the overall numbers of foreign-born farm workers is around 3/4 in those same reports.
How many years back are you talking about here for that anecdote? I don't know that there are several million U.S. citizens or enough work visas allowed to fill the jobs vacated by 'illegals' if they all get deported.
Capitalism does what it is good at. It exploits available resources to earn a profit. Immigrants are a source of cheap labor that can be exploited. Millions of immigrants have entered the country illegally over the last several decades because it helps some businesses be competitive with goods imported from countries with even cheaper labor. You don't see 'caravans' of migrants arriving at the border looking for ways to get across because they want to sit in detention camps for months or years with no guarantee of being allowed in. Or risking their lives to cross illegally through desert, mountains, or the Rio Grande carried by people that are completely untrustworthy. They do this because there are businesses here that will hire them. Some businesses might do it as a way to increase profits, some might even exploit them in really unsavory ways, being not much less immoral than the coyotes that smuggled them in. Other businesses might do it because they couldn't find American workers willing to do the job for wages the business can afford to pay and still be profitable. Other businesses might do it because they need to compete with other American businesses that hire undocumented workers as well as foreign ones.
If you really want to solve the immigration problem, addressing the economic issues that create the domestic demand for the labor of undocumented immigrants is going to be an essential first step.
They promised Reagan they'd one that in 1986. He said that believing that was his biggest mistake
Yes, Dr. Ed's completely-made-up anecdote proves a lot.
"The Great Compression refers to the period of substantial wage compression in the United States that began in the early 1940s. During that time, economic inequality as shown by wealth distribution and income distribution between the rich and poor became much smaller than it had been in preceding time periods. The term was reportedly coined by Claudia Goldin and Robert Margo in a 1992 paper, and is a takeoff on the Great Depression, an event during which the Great Compression started.
...
Explanations for the length of the compression have been attributed to the lack of immigrant labor in the US during that time..."
The United States of Inequality
"Instead of looking at the effects of immigration in isolated labor markets like New York or Los Angeles, Borjas gathered data at the national level and sorted workers according to their skill levels and their experience. He found that from 1980 to 2000, immigration had reduced the average annual income of native-born high-school dropouts ("who roughly correspond to the poorest tenth of the workforce") by 7.4 percent (see Table 3). In a subsequent 2006 study with Harvard economist Lawrence Katz, this one focusing solely on immigration from Mexico, Borjas calculated that from 1980 to 2000, Mexican immigrants reduced annual income for native-born high-school dropouts by 8.2 percent. Illegal immigration has a disproportionate effect on the labor pool for high-school dropouts because the native-born portion of that pool is relatively small. A Congressional Budget Office study released a year after Borjas' study reported that among U.S. workers who lacked a high-school diploma, nearly half were immigrants, most of them from Mexico and Central America."
In short, if it weren't for illegal and low income legal immigration suppressing unskilled wages, we'd probably need much less of a welfare system.
It's not just that -- once the immigrants reach a certain critical mass in the jobsite, they force the Americans out.
As to the Great Compression, the massive loss of inheritable wealth in the Depression had a lot to do with that. The wealthy made out OK as they always do, but the upper middle class did not, and it wasn't just stock losses. They only got back pennies on dollars they had saved in banks and the social deck was reshuffled. We haven't had something like that since....
Yeah, but it lasted too long for that to be the main cause.
A McDonalds meal SHOULD cost $15 and here's why:
First a dollar in 1950 is now $12.64 based on general inflation, with housing costs vastly outpacing general inflation.
McDonalds in the 1950s was also subsidized by parents -- teenagers were living at home and didn't have any expenses and hence would work for less -- just like illegal aliens today.
But the biggest difference is that McDonalds has not automated.
They are STILL cooking everything by hand, assembling the burgers by hand, making and packaging the fries by hand, etc.
Everyone else has automated to save labor costs -- McDs instead demands illegal aliens.
That's one of the key effects of a plentiful supply of illegal immigrant labor: The failure to automate low skill jobs.
A lot of agricultural work we're told demands illegal immigrants would have been automated by now if not for the porous border.
I can't remember the details, but I remember the point being made that (post 1865) American railroads quickly surpassed European railroads because there wasn't abundant cheap labor in America and hence the railroads had to rely more on technology.
And what no one is saying about burger flipping machines is that you can sanitize the stainless steel 'hands" of a burger machine with chemicals that would strip the skin off a human's hand. It's way cleaner.
So, even if this is true, which I doubt, what's your complaint?
Your burgers are cheaper than they would be otherwise, unless McDonald's is run by innumerate imbeciles.
Besides, which is it? Are they taking jobs or living on welfare?
Both.
That's your complaint?
Every word of that is wrong.
Immigrants are not going to cut the deficit. Somin must think that we are stupid.
I don't think he actually shows much sign of trying to persuade people who disagree with him, there are too many obvious points he never addresses, problem with his work he never tries to fix.
It's mostly performative for people who already agree, I think.
Oh, I forgot. Somin thinks voters are stupid. Not capable or rational thought. He can just say immigrants reduce the deficit. Politicians promise to reduce the deficit all the time. American voters are so stupid that they believe it. Never mind that that both immigration and deficits increase all the time. Too bad we are not as smart as Russians, or wherever Somin comes from.
To be fair, I absolutely think you're stupid.
A free trillion over 10 years? That only works if you only look at revenue and assume that *zero* tax dollars will be spent on them. In reality, their kids will be in schools, and emergency rooms will treat them, at higher than normal costs.
"The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants." - CBO, "The Impact of Unauthorized Immigrants on the Budgets of State and Local Governments", 2007.
I like people who know absolutely nothing about a subject, read a report about a study — well, not read, actually, but glance at — and announce that it's wrong and that here are the flaws in it, because they don't want it to be true.
Of course, the study could be incorrect — in its methods, data, conclusions, or all of the above — but it does not "assume" anything like what Davy C guesses that it does. The conclusion of the study is that net revenues — not gross — will be a trillion in the applicable time period.
Australia's recent experience shows that while immigration does have a clear effect of increasing GDP, which will increase tax revenue, it also lowers per capita GDP, which means living standards are reduced (of course that could mean that migrants are just averaging the numbers down, it could also mean migrants are depressing working class wages).
Yes, that is the detail the leftists leave out. Raising GDP sounds good until you find out that per capita GDP is lower. Also building prisons raises GDP. Not always a good thing.
"it also lowers per capita GDP, which means living standards are reduced"
Why does that average statistic (per capita GDP) matter? The living standards of the immigrants would presumably be improved by the move, even if they are still at the low end of the country's income numbers. And as for the effect on the rest of the population, if you want to use an average statistic, it should be the average of the remaining population (excluding the immigrants).
The per capita GDB stat is unhelpfully negative and misleading. It paints a picture of one population moving backward when it would seem that they have two populations moving forward.
Absolutely right.
Lowering GDP per capita does not necessarily lower the living standard of any individual.
Try this, kazinski.
You have 90 people earning a total of $9M, for an average of $100K. Now add ten people who make $50K. Total earnings are now $9.5M, giving an average of $95K. What terrible thing has happened? Nothing.
Try what I said in the first place: "of course that could mean that migrants are just averaging the numbers down, it could also mean migrants are depressing working class wages"
We have ample evidence that it's the latter. In fact, it would about be an economic miracle if it wasn't.
This is the argument for slavery. It is possible for both slaveowners and slaves to economically benefit from importing slaves. No, it is better to make America great again.
How much of that trillion will we spend in foreign aid, military intervention, humanitarian relief, law enforcement assistance, etc for shithole countries that are remaining shitholes because their best people all fled.
So are they sending their best or their worst? Y’all nativists can’t seem to make up your minds between which scenario to make up and get angry at.
Well, according to you anti-nativists, they are all great people, right?
So again, doesn't that make them the same people their home countries desperately need the most?
No they are just people.
Y’all are the ones with the wild population arguments.
Yeah crazy us, for believing that countries with finite space and resources can't support an infinite number of migrants.
Yeah, no one here is saying infinite.
But I begin to see the reason behind your mania for strawmen.
Tell us more about the anti-white agenda.
If not infinite, then what is the number? Now that you have admitted there is some limit, give us an actual number of what you consider the limit of what our country can realistically support.
Because one problem with open borders advocates like Ilya is that they NEVER attempt to answer that question.
Good news! There aren't an infinite number of migrants!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBudghsdByQ
Unfortunately, the vid lies about the economic 'benefits' at the end, but the rest pretty much explains it.
Shame on you, though, for not having known this for the past two decades at least, if you didn't.
Why, Ilya, do you support slavery ?
Why do you, Ilya, support sexual exploitation of minors ?
WHY ???
You conveniently (for your argument) move from legal immigration to all which includes legal immigration. They are completely different and while I believe legal immigration should be increased it does not help to conflate the two. Also the study does not take in account the chain of additional low productive family+ that comes with this. Legal immigrants tend to be very productive and have less chain migration by logic because they come from mostly more affluent countries where family does not want exit en mas. Possibly the worst affect of illegal immigration is the issue bypasses the political process. Becasue so many other than the common populace get what they want the political process is avoided. SHut down the illegal immigration, force the polititians to address lack of farm workers, etc. Raise legal immigration and guest workers if truly needed. Way it is distorts economy in many ways. Inovation is stymied, fair wages are blocked.
One big difference between legal and illegal immigration is education level (and probably IQ). Many, if not most, legal immigrants are decently well educated and somewhat fluent in English. Very many illegal immigrants are not. K-1 visas are esp notable here - at one employer, maybe half of our PhDs were here on K-1 visas, a 1/4 of our MS degree holders, and essentially none of our BS level engineers and the like. Contrast that with the average illegal immigrant from dental or South America, many of whom might have a 3rd grade education, and English isn’t even a second language (Spanish is). What can they do in our high technology economy? They can work manual labor jobs, often requiring someone bilingual in English and Spanish to translate orders, etc. They can’t even work at most fast food restaurants because they can’t make change or take orders.
Meanwhile, as noted elsewhere, they aren’t paying for their healthcare - the rest of us are, for them. They aren’t paying for educating their kids because they aren’t paying their share of taxes. Sales tax, sure, but not property taxes (which traditionally support schools) and definitely not income taxes. But teaching their kids to speak and write English is an additional cost not required for most native born citizens or legal immigrants.
Japan peaked in power last century and its economy began a slow decline. China is beginning to experience economic difficulties not on the horizen a decade ago. Why? Because they aren’t replacing their aging populations, increasing the number of retirees the same number of workers needs to support. and making it harder for essential but socially lower status businesses to find workers. Both are highly insular countries with a long cultural history of not accepting outsiders.
I have consistently objected to Professor Somin’s legal/constitutional arguments, and I disagree with his absolutist moral positions.
But there is a pragmatic case to be made that at least some comprise in the direction of less restrictive immigration would be in the interests of all parties, this country as well as immigrants. And Professor Somin could do a better job of making that case.
I could see a world wherein Prof. Somin's dogged persistence in an extreme policy would be bad, but this is not that world.
While I probably align more with you on my preferred policy, I don't think the politics are much different these days between 'stay the same' 'increase immigration' and 'open borders.'
The political upshot has become utterly degenerate as related to the continuum of policy choices.
Which is why absent some authoritarianism (c.f. The Wall) I don't think the needle will move; status quo bias is the only refuge out there at the moment.
It doesn't matter; the people who hate brown people will continue to hate brown people regardless of the case that Prof. Somin makes.
And those that hate whites and want to "eliminate whiteness" will continue to support policies that do just that.
Japan is more of an argument for stabilizing the population, not ever-increasing it.
Stuff and nonsense.
(1) All immigrants are not the same - The current invasion of several million illegals bring low to no language or business skills. These are not educated legal immigrants creating tech start ups nor do they have the skills to replace the average retiring Boomer.
(2) Adding low skill/low earners into a Democratic socialist redistribution system creates a net drain - The bottom quintile of earners take more from government in benefits than they contribute in taxes. Unemployed or criminal immigrants contribute nothing.
(3) Economic growth is a function of business activity, not available prime working age labor - Our Democratic socialist government is increasingly strangling business productivity, growth and employment. The recent pitiful job growth is going to government bureaucrats and the foreign born. Thus, the cheap immigrant labor is displacing American low skill workers, creating more government dependents.