The Volokh Conspiracy
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More on Advocacy of Genocide
Let's focus concretely on proposed bans on advocacy of "genocide," at Stanford and beyond.
[1.] Stanford put out this statement Thursday:
In the context of the national discourse, Stanford unequivocally condemns calls for the genocide of Jews or any peoples. That statement would clearly violate Stanford's Fundamental Standard, the code of conduct for all students at the university.
The Fundamental Standard provides that violations can lead to expulsion:
Students at Stanford are expected to show both within and without the University such respect for order, morality, personal honor and the rights of others as is demanded of good citizens. Failure to do this will be sufficient cause for removal from the University.
At the same time, it adds,
The Fundamental Standard does not restrict speech that is otherwise protected, including speech that some may find objectionable.
I take it that Stanford must therefore be suggesting that calls for the genocide of any peoples are not "protected" "speech." And Stanford acknowledges that the definition of what is "protected" "speech" must rely on First Amendment rules, because a California statute (the so-called Leonard Law) so provides:
As state actors, public universities are held to the strictest of standards when restricting speech and in California, the Leonard Law holds private universities to the same standard. As a protected constitutional right, speech may not be subject to discipline unless that speech rises to a legal standard of being unprotected.
Stanford thus seems to view advocacy of genocide as falling within a First Amendment exception, which means that it's unprotected not just at California private universities but also against civil liability and criminal punishment.
[2.] Now what exactly is genocide? The term is often used loosely, but there is a definition in the U.N. Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
- Killing members of the group;
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
So let's say that there's a discussion in a class on military history about World War II. Someone says that the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were unjustified. Another student replies, "Just look at how fanatically the Japanese fought in Okinawa, and imagine how they might have fought for the core Japanese islands. The only way to get them to surrender was to show them that continuing the war would mean mass 'utter destruction' for civilians as well as for soldiers: 'If they do not now accept our terms they may expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth.' Yes, we deliberately killed at least 120,000 civilians, and we were right to do so."
Under the U.N. definition quoted above, that would be advocacy of genocide: The student would be calling for killing members of a group with the specific intent to destroy or seriously harm a part (numbering in the hundreds of thousands) of that national group. True, your end might be just to get them to surrender, but your means would be deliberate destruction of substantial parts of the population. Bye-bye, student: You've just said something that is "sufficient cause for removal from the University." (OK, if you're lucky, you might just get suspended.)
Wait, you might say: Maybe advocacy of genocide is just advocating a specific future genocide, not just advocating for the propriety of some genocides by defending a past mass killing. Fine; say the question turns to modern nuclear weapons policy. Someone says that it would be wrong for Israel to respond to an Iranian bombing of an Israeli city by bombing an Iranian city. Another student replies, "Nonsense; to deter such an attack on them—or to deter follow-up attacks—the Israelis have to show Iranians that mass killing of Israeli civilians will cause mass killing of Iranian civilians." Out you go, student, you've advocated an act specifically intended to destroy Iranians in part.
This would of course sharply restrict the speech of students: If they're smart, they'd just shut up. But it would also sharply alter academic discussion (in this classroom example) or political discussion (if we shift this to debates in the quad). Here's how conversation on the subject might proceed:
Student A: If Iran bombs an Israeli city, that would be genocide, and a heinous crime. But Israel responding by bombing the Iranian city would also be genocide, and also heinous. Israel thus should absolutely not retaliate this way against nuclear attacks. Indeed, anyone who would back such retaliation against Israel would be violating our university's code of conduct.
Students B-Z either agree, or remain silent.
Conclusion some people loudly draw: Wonderful! We've reached consensus! Mutually Assured Destruction is an evil, criminal system, and Israelis would be evil criminals if they adopted it.
Conclusion other people quietly draw: Nonsense. We haven't had a real discussion at all.
And indeed, under Stanford's theory, this wouldn't just be the rule at Stanford. After all, Stanford acknowledges that it's bound to First Amendment rules (again, remember California's Leonard Law). Stanford's theory is that advocacy of genocide just isn't protected by the First Amendment—which means it could be made a crime outright, so that anyone in the U.S. can't take the pro-genocide views.
[3.] Now I expect some people might balk and say: What we really mean is the clearly unjustified deliberate destruction of part of a people. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were at least arguably justified, even if they were primarily aimed at causing civilian deaths. Likewise for a Cold War policy of retaliatory targeting of civilian centers, and likewise for such a policy on Israel's part (or for that matter Iran's). But the Holocaust was unjustified, and so are calls for destruction of Israel as a means to retake the land for the Palestinians. The definition of genocide must implicitly include such an element.
But why on earth should any of us have confidence in the Stanford administration's decision about what is justified—or, for that matter, in the decision of some California jury if the California Legislature follows Stanford's view that advocacy of genocide isn't "protected" "speech"?
Some others might respond: We really mean a policy of extermination for extermination's sake. But again that's not what the definition says. A "specific intent to destroy" can be present even when the destruction is in the service of a broader goal. One can specifically intend to destroy an army not because one just wants to kill the enemy, but because one wants to get the rest of the enemy's military forces to surrender.
[4.] Alternatively, others might say: No, what we really mean here is a policy of deliberate attempt at total extermination, or at least extermination as total as the advocates can achieve, as with the Holocaust. Yet that's not what the U.N. definition says: It quite expressly says that deliberate attempts to destroy "part" of the enemy population qualify. And the general understanding of the international definition of "genocide" does indeed seem to extend to the killing of even a relatively small subset of the group, so long as the killing is directed at the targeted group.
To be sure, the definition of "genocide" under U.S. federal law is somewhat more limited, though in an opaque way. The federal genocide statute is limited to actions taken with the specific intent to destroy in substantial part a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group, with "substantial part" defined as "part of a group of such numerical significance that the destruction or loss of that part would cause the destruction of the group as a viable entity within the nation of which such group is a part." What exactly this means is unclear: For instance, would arguing that some country should wage massive war on a breakaway Islamic State territory within that country, aimed at killing or seriously injuring ISIS soldiers and the extremist religious groups that actively support them, be a Stanford-expulsion-worthy call for genocide under this definition? And indeed at least one scholar has argued that the federal statute has actually been preempted by the U.S.'s later ratification of the U.N. Treaty (despite the reservations the U.S. attached to the ratification); the U.N. Treaty omits the "substantial" qualifier and offers no hints at the "destruction of the group as a viable entity" definition.
But in any event it is clear that modern American calls for punishing students who advocate genocide are often not limited to killing an entire group, or even a majority of the group. (And that's just limiting genocide to killing and other physical injury; recall how often people use genocide loosely, to refer to everything from "cultural genocide" to laws restricting gender-affirming care and the like.) Consider, for instance, Rep. Elise Stefanik's questioning of the university presidents, which seems to have led to the Stanford statement:
Congresswoman Stefanik: And you understand that the use of the term "intifada" in the context of the Israeli-Arab conflict is indeed a call for violent armed resistance against the State of Israel, including violence against civilians and the genocide of Jews. Are you aware of that?
Now I very much oppose terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians. But the intifada was not a viable attempt at the extermination of all or most Jews (or even of all or most Israeli Jews); it was an attempt to kill some Israeli Jews as a means of pressing Israel to allow the creation of a Palestinian state on the attackers' terms.
And the difference in killing Israeli Jews to coerce Israel and killing Japanese to coerce Japan stems from a judgment about who is in the right and who is in the wrong in the underlying conflict—about who started it, who is the unjustified aggressor, and who is justified in trying to get the aggressor to surrender. I think there is indeed a vast moral difference here, but that's my moral judgment. I don't see how First Amendment judgments or judgments under the California Leonard Law can properly turn on administrators', prosecutors', judges', and jurors' decisions about whether someone's speech is backing the bad guys or the good guys (good guys who would be doing awful things, even if justifiably).
[5.] And I'd say the same about universities outside California, such as Harvard, Penn, and MIT. It's true that they could adopt more restrictive rules on speech, without violating the law. They could indeed threaten to expel students who call for intifada. They could threaten to expel students who advocate a strategy of Mutual Assured Destruction, or even students who defend the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings.
They could threaten to expel students who defend the Israeli military action in Gaza (or students who argue that Israel should step up the attack to deliberately cause more pain to civilians). They could, for that matter, threaten to expel students who oppose transgender rights or abortion or race-based affirmative action or what have you. But I don't think they should: I don't think they really need more speech restrictions than, say, the University of Massachusetts or Penn State or other public universities that are governed by the First Amendment.
Finally, as I've noted before, of course some institution's defense of the free speech rights of those who defend the murder of Israelis rings hollow when those institutions have restricted the free speech rights of those who are seen as saying things that are offensive based on race, sexual orientation, gender identity, and so on. But I'd much rather that current events lead to a recognition of the importance of equally protecting controversial speech—even speech that some may view as genuinely evil, and that may indeed be evil—than to a judgment that we should equally restrict such speech.
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Is there a federal law against advocating genocide? If not, shouldn't these pro-censorship Congresscritters get to work passing such a law, rather than badgering others to do the work?
Stanford is bailing against the wind.
Like a cop caught taking bribes on camera, they won't talk themselves out of this one.
I find it hard to believe that 'kill all the jews', 'kill all the blacks', or 'kill all the gays' would not be seen as creating a hostile environment for a significant portion of students. And I don't doubt the courts would uphold University sanctions against students responsible for creating such a hostile environment.
Such speed is protected under the first amendment but it can not be allowed to go so far as to create an environment so hostile to a reasonable student that they fear for their safety on campus.
Do Hiroshima and Nagasaki clearly qualify as genocide under the UN definition?
To be genocide something has to be one of the listed acts, with the intent described in the first paragraph.
Were the bombs intended to destroy the Japanese people, or Japan as a country? I don’t think so.
Was the bombing of Dresden genocide against Germans?
If you kill a number of members of some group, then you are intending, by definition, to destroy that part of the group.
So do you want to say that any killing motivated by racial, ethnic, or religious hatred is genocide?
Another question:
If we ask someone advocating genocide against the Jews, say, what they mean specifically, what do you think they would say? My guess is extermination or, at least mass killing. Not, “I want to beat up that Jewish banker who rejected my loan request, because those damn Jews are such tightwads.”
Putin believes genocide is changing a population’s culture.
"...destroy...in part..."
But there is a difference between intending to destroy, even in part, a group, and killing members of the group.
Otherwise all killing would be genocide.
"Do Hiroshima and Nagasaki clearly qualify as genocide under the UN definition?"
Yes, because it was done by the United States.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were terrorism, not genocide.
A subset of anger is not at the genocide itself, but the hypocrisy of using the system they claim to despise against the same system; intolerance of intolerance. Like Just Stop Oil protesters wearing plastic windbreakers, or Communists using elections to take over government.
What people want is a law which criminalizes that kind of hypocrisy. Of course, no such law could ever be enforced fairly.
"no such law could ever be enforced fairly."
Because of meta-hypocrisy?
I don't see how you could even define it.
"Those who advocate a system which would make their advocacy illegal are guilty of ..."
It's just begging for loose definitions.
I assume they’ll interpret “calls for genocide” quite literally, as in “I call for the genocide of Palestinians” but not “we should destroy Palestine.” They just needed to say something to get people off their backs.
those institutions have restricted the free speech rights of those who are seen as saying things that are offensive based on race, sexual orientation, gender identity, and so on.
Is this really true? I mean, I know they restrict free speech rights of people who say things that are intended to demean actual individuals on those grounds, like, “Go home homo, you’re not welcome here.” But I have no doubt they would treat “Go home Jew, you’re not welcome here” the same way. Do they restrict the speech of people protesting same sex marriage, for example, as a policy matter? I don’t think so but maybe you have some examples.
"Is this really true?"
Ask Larry Summers.
And of course there are plenty of examples of Harvard not tolerating speech it considers racist, such as rescinding the admission of students for sharing racist memes.
I always thought the Larry Summers case was tragic. I think University President is a little bit of a different case though. You do want your president to share your values. Isn't that part of the current push to get presidents fired if they haven't been sufficiently loyal to Israel?
The line for hiring and admissions has likewise always been different than the line for firing or expulsion. As a policy matter I'm not sure that's great, but I see why it happens.
"I always thought the Larry Summers case was tragic."
I agree with you again. Harvard lost an excellent leader.
But I don't think that the present matter is about expecting presidents to be loyal to Israel; it is about projecting their students from physical intimidation.
Not physical intimidation. That’s an easy problem. This is not that.
It doesn't seem to be an easy matter for these Presidents, because Jewish students do claim they feel physically intimidated.
If you watch the video I EV's later post, there were instances of physical intimidation, and singling out Jewish students detailed.
Is this words are violence?
And yelling at a group is the same as targeting an individual?
I'm out and about today, but from your description it sounds like both are on the table.
Those are common things that get VC folks yelling about crybullies. And yet, when the potential targets are liberal students, the standards are different.
As has been said before, a lot of folks who claim to be small government on the right aren't. They just want big authoritarian government used against the "right" people.
He always finds excuses and then deflects.
What do you think physical intimidation means, and how is it different from hate speech?
Do you think doxxing people amounts to violence? That is what the Coalition Against Apartheid has done at MIT (of which you have no experience).
.This was the issue of contention between Elise Stefanik and Harvard President Claudine Gay. Harvard has policies against bullying and harassment which appear to significantly limit free speech in practice, but Harvard won't, according to Dr. Gay, categorically declare that some ideas are so beyond the pale that they cannot be expressed under any circumstances. Volokh gives hypothetical examples of discussions which likely would be allowed under Harvard’s policy (as Dr. Gay describes it), but which Stefanik would prohibit. It is disheartening to see the Harvard, which ranks dead last in FIRE’s free speech ratings, be attacked in Congress for being too open to free speech.
FIRE's rankings are partisan rubbish. Anyone who believes Harvard operates a more censorship-shackled campus than Regent, Wheaton, Cedarbrook, Liberty, or Ouachita Baptist is dumb and gullible enough to believe just about anything, including that childish fairy tales are true stories, that evolution is a demonic plot hatched in a hell, or that gays should be bashed because an imaginary voice says so.
“Anyone who believes Harvard operates a more censorship-shackled campus than Regent, Wheaton, Cedarbrook, Liberty, or Ouachita Baptist…”
Are you going to provide evidence that FIRE believes that, or is this more of your superstitious nonsense that we’re supposed to accept on faith?
Are the schools you mention included in FIRE's free speech rankings?
Arthur was born with his ears plugged and his mouth wide open. He knew that day everything he knows today, and nothing can move him or the contempt in his heart.
Allow me to answer on his behalf: Carry on, clinger.
I found Wheaton College and Liberty University there; Harvard is given the worst possible score.
Bingo.
How does an ostensibly academic blog attract so many fans who are poorly informed, disingenuous losers?
By being a white, male, bigot-hugging, right-wing blog, of course.
No. FIRE provides an unwarranted pass to conservative-controlled schools because criticizing those science-disdaining, academic freedom-flouting, censorship-shackled, dogma-enforcing, strenuously discriminatory, low-grade hayseed factories would aggravate the right-wing donors FIRE strives to flatter.
Carry on, clingers. So far as better Americans permit, that is.
Seriously? It's not that Harvard is hypocritical in their application of standards but they are too permissive of free speech? Declare that men are not women and they'd prove you wrong instantly but they draw the line at hurting the feelings of genocidal anti-semites
Harvard policies forbid "fat shaming". Whatever a sane person might think of Harvard's policies on speech, "too permissive" is not it.
"Declare that men are not women and they’d prove you wrong instantly..."
As happened to Carol Hooven, who was forced out of the Evolutionary Biology department for saying that although people's gender identities should be respected, biologically there are two sexes.
Should any legitimate American educational institution hire or keep a biology faculty member who is a creationist (and therefore disdains science)?
What about any faculty member who suppresses science to flatter childish superstition?
To be clear, we are talking about Stefanik’s views here, as expressed in the hearing. I don't think there was any discussion at all about whether, “Harvard is hypocritical in their application of standards.” I think Stefanik suggested, but did not establish, that Harvard is inconsistent in how it applies its standards. But, yes, for Stefanik the bottom line is that Harvard is too permissive of free speech because no ideas are categorically off limits. Prohibitions on bullying and harassment aren’t enough, in Stefanik’s view.
"They just needed to say something to get people off their backs."
I think that is quite true.
Stanford's statement is just another example of academic double talk. It's not any kind of legal analysis, just a PR stunt.
“Stanford’s statement is just another example of academic double talk.”
Yes. I loved seeing the university presidents squirm as they effectively defended a relatively unrestrictive notion of expression. They refused to say that they forbid advocating for “genocide.”
Now I’d like to see them apply that “openness” evenly, without modifications according to favored/disfavored viewpoints/peoples. Like it should be permissible to advocate for the genocide of “the oppressed” just as it’s permissible to advocate for the genocide of “the oppressors.” Because I believe all those presidents really indicated is that free speech rules apply to “kill the Zionists” while they keep their “no permissibility of harmful/hateful speech” policies rolled up in their back pockets for a different day, for the benefit of different "victims."
U of P president just resigned, effectively for having defended free speech. But will she stand up now and express full-throated concern about how free expression is being significantly attacked and discouraged across the United States?
I hope she will. She'll be condemned by many if she does. (But it would be a sign of the kind of courageous leadership that's missing in so many institutions.)
All from the people who brought us "bothsidesism," a pejorative term to describe those who favor free expression.
Stefanik got 'em twisted up in their own duplicity. All they had to do was say, "Sorry, Congresswoman. We grant wide latitude to expression on campus, as we think that is essential to our mission of fostering substantive inquiry and debate."
But there they were, stuck, sheepishly defending a particular type of expression without having the benefit of an underlying principle of openness. (It's like how partisans ultimately eat their own for any imaginable reason, because self-righteousness isn't a principle; it's an attitude that comes with gum in the ears.)
Always great to hear pointers on this at a blog whose fans regularly call for liberals to be gassed, exterminated, pushed through woodchippers, placed face-down in landfills, shot in the face, raped, sent to Zyklon showers, etc.
All without a discouraging word from the proprietor, of course. To be fair, he's quite busy scouring the internet for opportunities to publish vile racial slurs with plausible deniability, for items that scratch a transphobic itch, or that pander to white, male grievance.
Exactly right.
Now, think about this: If these people -- Ms. Gay, Ms. Magill, Ms. Kornbluth, etc. -- are OK with advocacy of (some) genocides (depending on how they feel about the victims), doesn't this obviously mean that they'd be OK with actual genocide (not just talking about it) (once again, depending on how they feel about the victims)?!
In this recent interview / debate, James Lindsay spells out where these people are coming from. It ain't pretty...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWIYb5wPWFY
Wouldn’t those definitions of genocide include the Union during the Civil War?
Wow Professor Volokh, aren't you headed to Stanford next year?
You have your work cut out for you. 🙂
I have my work cut out for me everywhere.
Only if you actually believe you have a chance to persuade most modern Americans to embrace your stale, ugly conservative thinking.
Great post, Professor.
It makes a good test for those of us who care about defending free speech. If there is a level of offensive, or unforgivable speech that you support a ban, then you are not a true defender.
I think EV is passing the test. Bravo.
If the USA ever passes hate speech laws that stand up with SCOTUS, the laws will be instantly abused. That is my fear.
If anyone had proposed banning anything (outside of colleges / universities), this would’ve been a great comment. Of course, no one has.
"Another student replies, "Nonsense;.."
The example discusses a primitive understanding of deterence theory. The claim made of deterrence through the threat of retribution is explicit described as an illegal war crime by DoD lawyers who examine US strategic policy
The whole premise of this debate is false and all the energy spent is ridiculous.
Calling for genocide of Jews?
No one did this. It was a cheap “gotcha!” question asked by Stefanik.
And she got 'em.
Stefanik did not know what she was saying and did not know what she was doing. She barely knows the first two things about the Holocaust.
MacGill, who has a degree in history, was using her brain and being thoughtful.
Magill for Volokh seems a reasonable even exchange.
What do you think those "From the river to the sea" or "intifada" chants mean, when the Palestinian supporters use them?
As for EV’s examples of the Allies in WWII, this is from the UN Charter:
“Article 107
“Nothing in the present Charter shall invalidate or preclude action, in relation to any state which during the Second World War has been an enemy of any signatory to the present Charter, taken or authorized as a result of that war by the Governments having responsibility for such action.”
https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter/full-text
The Genocide Convention is closely linked to the UN, being drafted by that body, non-UN members only being to ratify if invited, etc., including this:
“Article VIII
“Any Contracting Party may call upon the competent organs of the United Nations to take such action under the Charter of the United Nations as they consider appropriate for the prevention and suppression of acts of genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in article III.”
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf
So the Genocide Convention may need to keep hands off the Allies for anything they did to the Axis.
Never mind, it's two different treaties.
That's too broad a definition of genocide.
Let's give a different example. Russian soldiers invade Ukraine. To defend themselves, Ukranians fight back, killing large numbers of Russian soldiers.
According to the definition of genocide "genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: Killing members of the group"
Ukrainians are killing large numbers of Russian soldiers, who are members of the Russian ethnic group.
That could conceivably be considered "Genocide" as well. By the Ukranians.
I agree. The more you broaden the definition the more you generate borderline cases to argue about. By broadening the class you create the (often) phony argument that because two things have some features in common they should be treated exactly the same.
You need different training to operate a bicycle than to operate a passenger jet. Yet both are transportation vehicles.
The schools need accreditation in addition to reputation. Do the bodies that decide "yes, MIT is legit" consider free speech and hostile environments on campus?
If they did, no conservative-controlled campus (nonsense, dogma, censorship, rejection of academic freedom, bigotry) would be accredited.
The Convention on Genocide calls on member states to ban "Direct and public incitement to commit genocide". This clause at least does not ban all pro-genocide speech. There may be another treaty that does.
Indeed!
"Article III
"The following acts shall be punishable:
...(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide"
To which one of the U. S. reservations is "That nothing in the Convention requires or authorizes legislation or other action by the United States of America prohibited by the Constitution of the United States as interpreted by the United States."
https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=IND&mtdsg_no=IV-1&chapter=4&clang=_en#EndDec
https://reason.com/volokh/2023/12/06/should-universities-ban-advocacy-of-genocide/?comments=true#comment-10346274
The whole UN definition seems circular to me when it comes to "part of a group".
If you kill some members of a group you by definition are destroying part of the group.
In fact, I'm not sure we should be looking to legal definitions, rather than common meaning at all.
When someone says they want to commit genocide against the Jews, that means they want to kill a lot of Jews. That's a threat to kill me. Should speech codes permit advocacy of murder? Or indeed, any of the other acts listed by the UN?
The Volokh Conspiracy does. But only when advanced by conservatives.
I'd ask if you are out of your head, but the answer to that is self-evident. The VC, unlike most universities, has no speech code as such.