The Volokh Conspiracy
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Should Universities Ban "Advocacy of Genocide"?
This question has been in the news recently, in light of the recent House Committee hearings on "Holding Campus Leaders Accountable and Confronting Antisemitism." A few thoughts on my part:
[1.] There's no "advocacy of genocide" exception to the First Amendment, or to the contractual promises of student free speech that many private universities rightly implement.
[2.] Indeed, as I've argued before, it is important that students be free to debate what is proper to do in war, and what wars are just. War involves mass killing, in some wars by the millions. I think some such killing is atrocity and some is just. But different people draw the lines differently, and that is a matter that is quite rightly up for debate.
For instance, some people label the Israeli invasion of Gaza as "genocide." I think they're wrong, both as a moral matter and as a matter of international legal norms (such as they are). I think Israel is entitled to kill as many Hamas fighters as it can, and if Hamas hides behind civilians, then Israel is entitled to kill the civilians to get to Hamas. Likewise, I think the U.S. was quite right to kill many German and Japanese civilians in the course of fighting the German and Japanese militaries.
Students need to be free to make these arguments supporting the killing of civilians in Gaza, Germany, and Japan, without having their rights turn on what lines some international lawyers might draw. Likewise, pro-Palestinian students need to be free to argue that the state of Israel was wrongly created on Palestinian land, and that Israeli Jews need to be expelled from it—through mass relocation if possible, but if they want to fight (as of course Israelis will) through killing. Again, I think that morally there is a world of difference between these two positions. But I think that, for free speech purposes, both should be protected without regard to my moral views of the matter.
Likewise, if we focus less on the label genocide and more on the reality of mass killing of civilians, I think that even there people should be free to argue that this is legitimate under certain circumstances. For instance, while I understand that there are some arguments that Hiroshimi and Nagasaki included legitimate military targets, I think the strongest argument for bombing them was to show Japanese that continuing the war would cause mass civilian deaths, and only total surrender would avoid that. And I think that, under those circumstances, such deliberate killing of civilians is proper.
Similarly, I think that the argument that, "if Iran drops a nuclear bomb on an Israeli city, Israel should drop a nuclear bomb on an Iranian city, precisely to show ordinary Iranians that killing Israelis would lead to killing of Iranians," is an argument that free speech principles protect, even though it would justify the killings not of a thousand people but of tens or hundreds of thousands. Again, I think the Hamas killings were unjustified, while the hypothetical bombing of Iran and the real bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified, for various reasons but chiefly because of my sense of who is in the right in the underlying war. But that highly disputed moral distinction shouldn't lead to a First Amendment difference, or a difference in how private universities apply free speech rules.
[3.] Of course, there are exceptions to First Amendment protection, particularly for true threats of illegal conduct, solicitation of illegal conduct, and incitement of illegal conduct. These, however, are narrow exceptions, and especially rarely arise as to advocacy of military violence overseas. For instance, incitement is defined as speech (1) intended to and (2) likely to cause (3) imminent illegal conduct. A rally expressing support for Hamas murders in Israel is highly unlikely to, for instance, lead more terrorists to imminently engage in criminal acts in Israel.
Likewise, a true threat of violence is (to oversimplify) a statement saying that I or my confederates will do something illegal to you (could be violence, could be vandalism, could be something merely civilly actionable, such as unlawful discrimination). "I'll kill the Zionist leaders on this campus" is likely to be a punishable true threat; likewise for "I'll kill the Palestinian leaders, because they are justifying Hamas." "We Palestinians will push the Israelis into the sea" is not, because the threat is of what a military group (or a nation) will do in a foreign war. ("We'll kill the Jews here in L.A." is an unclear matter; it's a threat of unlawful violence, apparently by the speaker and his confederates, but it's not clear whether such a statement is too broad and thus not particularized enough to be a true threat. To quote U.S. v. Kelner (2d Cir. 1975), to be a true threat must be relatively "specific as to target," though it's not clear just how specific it needs to be.)
[4.] Now to "harassment," a term that has often been brought up recently. As then-Judge Alito said (and other courts have echoed this), "There is no categorical 'harassment exception' to the First Amendment's free speech clause," Saxe v. State College Area School Dist. (3d Cir. 2001). What sort of speech may be punished as "harassment" isn't well-settled. But lots of courts have struck down campus speech codes at public universities that purport to ban "harassment" (see some of the cases cited in this post).
And though there is likely some room for punishing unwanted individually targeted speech (repeated phone calls, e-mails, personal approaches, etc.), simply expressing offensive viewpoints to the public can't be punished as "harassment," consistently with the First Amendment (or with private universities' voluntary adoption of free speech norms), even if some of the listeners will be highly and understandably offended by those viewpoints. That's equally true for viewpoints calling for the destruction of Israel, for the invasion of Gaza, for violence against American police officers, for violence against abortion providers, for discrimination based on race, religion, sex, national origin, sexual orientation, or gender identity, and so on.
[5.] All this having been said, universities should prevent violence, vandalism, trespassing in faculty or administration offices, obstruction of students' path to class, loud noise that unduly interferes with studying, and more. But they should do so regardless of students' viewpoints, not because those are viewpoints are seen as supposed "advocacy of genocide."
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I guess the Republicans never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
They could have asked questions like these:
"Now, Provost Jones, based on these protests your campus had about the Israel/Hamas situation, what kinds of advocacy are permitted by the rules of your institution?"
After getting Jones to acknowledge the sort of thing (s)he permitted on the part of the "pro-Palestinian" demonstrators, a follow-up question:
"Now, we heard from earlier testimony how you hassled student Y or Professor X for calling Bruce Jenner a man. What makes this sort of thing more offensive than [cite a particularly egregious 'pro-Palestinian' remark]?"
Focus on the double standard at federally-subsidized universities with respect to free speech.
Or they could use their questioning to allow the university spokespeople to hold themselves forth as First Amendment champions. Which I suppose is the avenue these Congresscritters are going down.
Rep Stefanik did actually attempt to use that line of questioning {https://youtu.be/cSaJRyNZ_UI?t=170) pointing to Harvard's rescinding of acceptance of prospective students who (in their teens, years earlier!) posted "offensive memes" to social media. The risible answer by the diversity hire was "that was before my time"
"follow-up question"
Most congress critters just use a list of staff written questions. They don't have the skill or experience to ask good follow-up questions. Even the lawyers among them.
Stefanik, for instance, just has a silly BA in government and has just been a staffer or politician.
They don’t have the skill or experience to ask good follow-up questions.
Even the few who do often don't use them. Most hearings are exercises in bloviation. They spend five minutes circling around and finally spew forth a question, and largely ignore the answer to bloviate some more.
Sen. John Kennedy is the real shit though. He'll blow those MFS up.
Should Universities Ban "Advocacy of Genocide"?
Answer: NO!
Either we have free speech, or we do not. I choose free speech, however odious.
When does free speech rise to fighting words?
"fighting words" is a made up concept ... if someone shouts a nasty word at you, there is nothing that compels you to beat the living daylights out of him.
As defined by SCOTUS, "fighting words" are a very rare category — those words "which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace." Basically, if saying it would cause the listener to attack you on the spot.
I'll go a whisker further. "Them's fightin' words!" is a defense if you popped someone in the nose over it, let the jury decide.
What it is not is a justification for government to ban speech, claiming it is dangerous fighting words.
I still recall decades ago Chicago officials carrying off a painting of the mayor in women's underpants, claiming it was too dangerous and might spawn violence.
No thank you. It's a bit too close to the Egyptian military banning CNN dishes, claiming the people were not ready to see news (uncontextualized) by (the dictators who wanted to remain in power).
Allow me to dissent.
Let's be clear about what "advocacy of genocide" is. It's advocacy of mass murder. Advocacy isn't just speech. It's any act or process for supporting a cause or proposal.
"Advocacy for genocide" is in effect actions which promote and support mass murder.
These actions are reprehensible and should be eliminated from college campuses. Not only because mass murder is quite illegal...but the vast detrimental effects on members of the college body.
What about recommending firebombing during WWII, or use of still more nukes, wreck large cities until nothing but stumbling survivors and farmers are left?
These things are nastier than stuff you fancy to ban.
That's not genocide, as strictly defined. There's a difference between war, in the context of nation states, and seeking to wipe out every individual from an ethnic group.
This is such an obvious point I was shocked the original article was confused about it. Mass killing is collateral damage is accepted in the principle of proportionality in humanitarian laws of war. This is entirely different intentionality of genocide. Therefore advocacy of genocide does not fall within a reason argument for just war therefore it should be banned from campuses at least.
AL, it's more than a fair point. At some level, there has to be an acknowledgement of some basic human values (e.g. genocide is wrong, and abhorrent), or society breaks down over time with the erosion of values.
The strongest argument I see favoring your dissent is what we are actually observing: the erosion of moral and civic values at our best institutions of learning.
Except you get to the problem of the people in charge - the ones who have a hankering for banning speech - get to decide what's "genocide" and what's not. I'd rather err on the side of avoiding that because in the end, speech is NOT violence. Let the crazies show their true colors.
When the left advocates genocide we get endless navel gazing pieces about free speech. When the right advocates for the recognition of biology we get endless justifications for violent responses and speech suppression. Sorry Charlie, not playing your one sided game anymore, the Leftists demanded these rules and now they need to drown in them.
When the right advocates for the recognition of biology we get endless justifications for violent responses and speech suppression.
In your dreams! No one is justifying violent responses or free-speech suppression for even the most vile of anti-trans advocacy. Except in your perverse, grievance-filled fantasies.
It’s codified in law that I can lose my job for harassment if I “misgender” someone. How is that not suppression of speech?
Meanwhile, this is from Harvard’s code of conduct (“expectations”): “Discriminatory harassment is unwelcome and offensive conduct that is based on an individual or group's protected status. Discriminatory harassment may be considered to violate this policy when it is so severe or pervasive, and objectively offensive, that it creates a work, educational, or living environment that a reasonable person would consider intimidating, hostile, or abusive and denies the individual an equal opportunity to participate in the benefits of the workplace or the institution's programs and activities.”
https://provost.harvard.edu/files/provost/files/non-discrimination_and_anti-bullying_policies.pdf
I find it hard to believe that calls for genocide against Jews (the question at the hearing) don’t fall under this category.
Misgendering someone is not "advocating for the recognition of biology."
I find it hard to believe that calls for genocide against Jews (the question at the hearing) don’t fall under this category.
Some might. It's not that all calls for genocide should be tolerated. It's that "advocacy for genocide" as a category of speech shouldn't be automatically banned. A call for genocide may or may not be harassment and should be fairly evaluated against the standard just like any other speech.
Congress is paying for it, Congress gets to ban it.
That's all fine, but I still want to know what happens if an un-tenured faculty gives a talk that says, “George Floyd died of a fentanyl overdose and the cops were unfairly prosecuted”.
Easy. S/he is fucked.
All good and well ... but the universities must enforce free speech consistently.
If they crush every microaggression against other races/ethnic groups and ignore calls to murder Jews, they are not supporting free speech ... just anti-Semitism.
This is the point. If the university protests had been anti pretty much any other group, the protesting students would have been done for sundry violations of codes, other students' complaints of aggression would have been taken seriously, etc etc
FWIW I think that if Dr Kornbluth is a member of any synagogue, they should cancel her forthwith.
Bingo! The hypocrisy is the issue. If a student said, “We need to finish the job and kill the remaining Native Americans,” he would be kicked out of school in a heartbeat. And let’s not pretend any of these universities would allow depictions of Muhammad, even for educational purposes.
No one sane believes that a call for genocide of blacks or gays would be tolerated at Harvard. Yet a similar call for Jewish genocide barely raises an eyebrow in the administration.
#AllLivesMatter
Unfortunately almost all words out of the mouths of these university presidents can be summarized as "yes, but..." The underlying message of moral equivalency is obvious and despicable.
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When your line of conservative thinking with respect to Gaza (and the West Bank) inclines better Americans to stop subsidizing Israel’s violent and immoral right-wing belligerence, will you have the courage or character to travel to Israel to try to defend Israel as it attempts to operate without American skirts to hide behind?
Or are you just another all-talk, blustering right-wing blowhard?
My money is on cowardice and hollow bluster.
Better Americans, in RAK's world, are antisemites who like to see Jews be slaughtered, and want to tie down their hands from fighting back.
Learn some history. Americans when confronted have been fierce to their enemies.
Here's a prediction: The all-talk right-wingers around here will not rush to Israel's aid when their belligerent talk, and Israel's right-wing belligerence, cause America to stop providing the skirts Israel has been hiding behind for decades.
Hollow blusters and partisan cowardice is about all you clingers will have to offer Israel when better Americans call the bluff.
With friends like you . . . Israel is in a hell of a lot of trouble.
MAGA is already gearing up to abandon Israel. It's hard to frame Israel as an "America First" policy.
I predict Donald will turn, like Elon, to antisemitic dog whistles in the near future. It'll energize his base, drive a few Trump-centric news cycles, and give him a chance to confound his critics with superficial praise for Israel.
"He said the word 'peaceful' so you can ignore all the violent stuff."
But this one'll be:
"He said the word 'Zion' so you can ignore all the antisemitic stuff."
Are you sure Elon Musk said something? Because I can’t remember a single Volokh Conspirator or Volokh fan saying a single word about any such statement. How could that be?
Carry on, clingers . . . so far as hypocrisy, cowardice, bigotry, and superstition could carry anyone in modern America, and only to the degree your betters permit.
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Maybe in your antisemitic circles support for Israel is falling off, but Americans strongly support Israel and do not define its self-defense as "right-wing belligerence."
This is over-simplifying a more complex set of views.
I think a more accurate description of American attitudes is that, while there is broad support for Israel generally, and many Americans agree that some response by Israel was merited, people are increasingly uncomfortable with the intensity of Israel's response, and calling for things like humanitarian pauses and ceasefires.
It's not a binary either/or. And even there it's largely predicated upon a belief that Israel hasn't had ethnic cleansing on the agenda from the very start. I'd wager that people would feel a lot more strongly about it if they were familiar with Israeli politics and the fact that a "two state solution" has been a dead letter for years on the Israeli right.
Support for Israel is not declining — especially among young, educated, successful Americans. This is a libertarian blog operated by libertarians. Volokh does not impose viewpoint-driven censorship. Your world sounds great for clingers but unrelated to the reality-based world.
Hey Reverend, got anything to say about Hamas unspeakable barbarism of Oct 7? And you do know, don't you, that Hamas has repeatedly since its founding in 1987 and after its 10/7 attack that it is committed to genocide against its Jewish neighbors. Explain that from your singular antisemitic perspective.
Hamas is despicable. Hamas' conduct on October 7 was reprehensible. Hamas should be held to account for its atrocities.
Carry on, clinger.
To echo many of the above statements:
IT'S THE HYPOCRISY, STUPID.
Naw, it's not. It's viewpoint discrimination. You're asking for it above. Everyone here is.
Is there hypocricy? Absolutely! But you're as bad as Harvard.
No Bob is demonstrating actual knowledge and understanding of history and the geopolitical ramifications.
Huge difference from the reactionary comments from the left
Professor Volokh, since free speech, morality, and institutional power seem quite a tangle, let me ask what I hope will be a few clarifying questions:
1. If a person in power orders others he knows will obey him to take, "the harshest possible measures," against you, is that speech you must tolerate, or action which would justify a deadly attack in retaliation?
2. If the answer is that it is justified to silence the powerful speaker by killing him, would it be justified to silence him by measures less extreme?
3. How or why does the situation change if the person urging harsh measures is less powerful, or not powerful, or not certain to motivate others to action?
4. Is it plausible that anyone can answer such questions on the basis of free speech principles alone, without resort to morality, or any other basis of evaluation?
1. That depends, did you kill that person's family and attempt to kill them as well?
You're insufferably stupid SL. Fuck off Nazi.
for various reasons but chiefly because of my sense of who is in the right in the underlying war.
This is the key piece of self-awareness that everyone in the world other than you and I seems to lack, Eugene.
Suggestions to suppress pro-Palestinian speech as antisemitic or otherwise beyond the pale are simply attempts to give Israel a propaganda advantage in the war. It’s an explicit strategy of the ADL.
The speech at issue here is far from merely pro-Palestinian.
But you knew that.
The speech at issue here is far from merely pro-Palestinian.
You’re so dumb you don’t know when you’re making my point for me. It would be… well, not great, but a million times better if the ADL were only trying to suppress the sort of speech “at issue here.”
No, they have a tactic where they denounce any criticism of Israel or any pro-Palestine speech as an attempt to “delegitimize” Israel and thereby cast doubt on its “right to exist,” hence tantamount to genocide and automatically antisemitic.
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No, they don't. This is a common rhetorical trick of antisemites.
I mean, it’s a factual statement. It’s either true or false. If your point is that “making false statements” is a common rhetorical trick or antisemites… what’s your point? It’s a common rhetorical trick of almost everyone with ignorance or ill intent. You seem overeager to lay the charge of antisemitism if you think making false statements is a sufficient ground.
But of course, it’s true so all that is irrelevant. I just googled “adl delegitimize” and the top 9 results were all ADL articles complaining of various schemes to “delegitimize” Israel, all but one of which are based on criticism of Israeli policy.
My point is that it's a common trick of antisemites to preemptively deflect charges of antisemitism by claiming that criticism of Israel is mislabeled as antisemitism.
Huh. That’s also my point. You and the ADL could disarm antisemites of this trick if you’d only stop mislabeling criticism of Israel as antisemitism.
Instead, you're mislabeling criticism of mislabeling criticism of Israel as antisemitism as antisemitism. Now that's a case of doubling-down if I ever saw one.
Students need to be free to make these arguments supporting the killing of civilians in Gaza, Germany, and Japan, without having their rights turn on what lines some international lawyers might draw. Likewise, pro-Palestinian students need to be free to argue that the state of Israel was wrongly created on Palestinian land, and that Israeli Jews need to be expelled from it—through mass relocation if possible, but if they want to fight (as of course Israelis will) through killing.
Well, yes. But let's not idealize what happens when they do. There's not likely to be a calm, reasoned response from those who disagree. The best outcome is likely to be a big shouting match. The people participating are acting on emotion, not facts and logic.
So good (and typical) of you to get fully behind the rational advocacy of genocide and call out those emotional lunatics that think being murdered is bad for them.
Immoral speech has no place anywhere.
No exceptions.
You so crazy, Z Crazy.
But vile racial slurs will always have a devoted home at the Volokh Conspiracy.
Call for the extermination of the Jews, and these brave university presidents will vigorously defend your right to free speech.
But use the wrong pronoun, and you'll be out on your ass before you can say "Jack Robinson". After all, that kind of language could make someone feel "unsafe".
Yes.
There's also no exception for perjury, defamation, or intentional infliction of emotional distress in the First Amendment either.
Weren't the first two things going on back in the day, and just accepted as understood? The third I don't know but as the purpose of speech is to affect others' behavior, I'm skeptical about it.
If any of these people were principled and used a single standard, there wouldn’t be much to talk about.
But they aren’t principled and they use double standards. So various people are arguing about who should win and who should lose and what everyone should be pretending the standard is at this moment.
I suppose that a law professor, with ample means and opportunity to inform himself of the tenets of international humanitarian law that would apply to Israel's prosecution of its war against the Gazans, by all means ought to be free not to do any of that but rather to demonstrate his willful and obstinate ignorance by popping off asinine and unsupportable claims about it.
It's a bit beside the point, but if it's quite right and "proper" for Israel to kill whatever Gazans (it claims) are between the IDF and Hamas combatants, regardless of the number, regardless of the military value of the target, regardless of the likelihood of success in achieving the military aim, then I think at some point we ought to acknowledge that the masses of Palestinians who find themselves in Israel's crosshairs have a right to respond in kind. Or are we saying that only Israelis have the right to self-defense? Are Gazan Palestinians obliged to acquiesce to whatever excesses Israel might commit, in its increasingly unhinged war on Gaza?
Well, someone here is increasingly unhinged.
Someone here unhinged himself straight off the UCLA campus.
This seems to have made you especially cranky lately.
You probably don't realize this given how quickly each of your employers told you to move on, but most people's job changes are voluntary.
You're like Prof. Volokh's bratty younger brother on the playground, if Prof. Volokh's bratty younger brother was a lying clinger and hypocritical culture war casualty.
Concession accepted.
“the world would be better off if it had more actual, committed, principled pacifists. but I suspect that what we have instead are mostly people who believe that violence is only the legitimate province of some people, and what is morally required of everyone else is submission“
We all know that free speech is not guaranteed by Harvard.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/harvard-revokes-admission-several-students-posting-offensive-memes-n768361
I agree with all this, *but*: If a private university wouldn't in fact tolerate masked KKK demonstrators calling for genocide against black people, it also cannot tolerate masked SJP demonstrators calling for genocide against Jewish people without running afoul of Title VI. So as a general matter, univesities shouldn't ban calls for genocide, but they also shouldn't selectively allow calls for genocide depending on whether in current left-wing discourse the group whose murder is being called for is considered an "oppressor" or not.
As I point out from time to time, putting a crucifix upside down in urine was touted by these same people as a good thing, the offended burn shakes them up in their complacency.
All these vastly less offensive modern offendings are motivation to use the power of government to silence opposition nowadays.
And now they leap back to being Ok with massively offensive calls for genocide.
There is no real thought process going on here. Just nonsentient cogs cranking through syntactically correct sentence formation in a dance to receive moral approval.
And the bigger picture? You shall behave in these ways to aid politicians getting elected. Forget the massive flip flopping contradictions. Your only concern is preening around like the fools in The Emperor’s New Clothes. You are good people for doing this.
"We are good people."
There was a Simpson's episode decades ago, where Lisa goes on a vegetarian tear of moral superiority. At the end, she's talking with Apu, who is also a vegetarian, looking for sympathy from a kindred spirit.
Lisa: When will the world realize you shouldn't eat animals, but only vegetables and eggs?
Apu: I do not eat eggs.
Lisa, aghast with horror: Oh! You must think me some kind of horrible monster!
Apu: **Yes I do.**
Which was a funny joke, but it points out how intimately intertwined these positions are with needing to receive moral approval from others.
The echo chamber, to use a modern term, relies on it desperately.
Both sides do it, but it seems particularly powerful as a control mechanism to keep people in line.
It also isn't new. Ref. Emperor's New Clothes
Sorry David, to have a case they'd need to identify factual disparate treatment. Your KKK fever fantasies wouldn't be admissible in court.
Do you remember the United the Right rally in Charlottesville? If some of the participants doing their neo-Nazi thing and marching through the streets holding aloft their tikki torches and chanting "Jews will not replace us," had been UVa students, would it have been OK for the school to discipline them? And then you wouldn't have a problem with the factual predicate of Professor Bernstein's hypothetical?
Here is a real world example from Harvard.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/harvard-rescinds-10-admissions-over-offensive-memes-960717379730
After a day, President MacGill of Penn has rethought and regretted her testimony before Congress. Now she disagrees with EV's willingness to let Jews be targeted for hate by members of the Penn community.
https://twitter.com/Penn/status/1732549608230862999
The Gaza War illustrates the extent to which policy makers—and especially policy makers leading supposedly principled institutions—tune their moral compasses to align with shifting force-fields of public opinion. It's almost as if that style of personality has become a preferred attribute among those seeking candidates to lead modern institutions.
University students should have the right to speak freely, including advocacy of genocide.
But Harvard University students don't have the right to speak freely.
Harvard University warns is students that they can be disciplined for ablism, fatphobia, misgendering, etc.
So the fact that they don't have any problem with their students calling for the genocide of Jews is telling.
The fact that you can't spot the difference between those things is what's telling.
Our universities have been suppressing certain ideas for decades. Advocacy of genocide ranks pretty high among the ideas they’ve been suppressing. Except … now. Now, when there’re numerous students (and professors!) who want to advocate for the genocide of Israelis (“From the river to the sea!”), our universities have suddenly discovered the virtue of freedom of speech. Curious, isn’t it?
So, what should we do? I’ve long maintained that all public higher-ed institutions should be shut down. As for private ones, the government shouldn’t interfere with them, no matter what they teach or what discussions / presentations they allow. If I were running such a (private) school, I would not interfere in any way with student advocacy / discussions / presentations. However, I’d be very careful about whom I’d hire, trying to avoid professors who advocate for genocide. And if, upon being hired, a professor surprised me by so advocating (especially, but not only, in the classroom), I’d fire him. (Yes, he has a right to speak his mind, but my (private) school has a right not to be associated with him.*)
* This may very well be wrong under current laws. If so, the laws should be changed.
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Damn straight! Just consider a quick list:
Earth is flat.
Fairy tales are true.
Evolution is a demonic plot hatched in a hall.
The Confederates were wise and noble people attempting to do the right thing.
Earth is a few thousand years old.
White people are superior.
Carbon dating is illegitimate.
Slavery was good for Black people.
Gays are disgusting perverts who should be imprisoned.
Males are superior.
Superstition trumps science.
If God said it, it's right.
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Damn these liberal, reality-based scolds and their refusal to respect traditional values!
The problem is that in today's campus atmosphere, calling for Israel's destruction is equivalent to calling for violence against Jewish students. It should not be, but it is. This has been shown empirically. Moreover, these same students try to shut down opposing speech. One who wants the protection of the rules must play by the rules.
No. Universities should not ban advocacy of genocide...because what comments would constitute such advocacy? I loathe the statement, “From the River to the sea….” While I am a right-wing, Republican, pro-Israel Jew and while this statement makes me horribly uncomfortable, I don’t think it should be banned. Yes, it implies terrible things to the Jews living in Israel, but the implication of terrible things is not the same as direct advocacy of terrible things.
My favorite law school professor was David Goldberger, the Jewish ACLU attorney who represented the neo-NAZIs at Skokie. Living with in a country where people say terrible things is a necessary price we pay for making freedom of speech a primary value. But it is a price worth paying.
Let people say this. But note who they are. Don’t fire them and don’t refuse to hire them, but obligate them to say what they really mean.
"I think Israel is entitled to kill as many Hamas fighters as it can, and if Hamas hides behind civilians, then Israel is entitled to kill the civilians to get to Hamas."
So if Israel identified someone as "a leader of Hamas", and that invididual moved to the United States and moved into a large apartment building, Israel would be justified in dropping a bomb on the building? Explain your answer.
I expect more cowardice and partisan hypocrisy rather than an answer.
You think calling Bruce Jenner a man is as offensive as calling Obama *le mot Kirkland*?
There's nothing "reasonable" about equating Kirkland's favorite word with the word "man."
Absolutely = ...the university officials also have a free speech right to condemn such comments as awful and antithetical to reason and inclusion
Free speech right? Sure. But is it good judgement on their part to exercise that right? Probably not. Taking sides in a foreign war doesn't directly impact the operation or mission of the University (at least I have yet to see a case made along those lines). Do Universities need to opine on all the hot political topics of the day? Seems like a bad idea from an academic freedom perspective.
How many in gaza are really civilians
Hamas is a symptom, not a cause. The root cause of Gazans’ horrific actions is their culture, which promotes Jew-hatred above all other virtues. Unfortunately, the people of Gaza are suffused with that sick culture and, seemingly with very few exceptions, have bought into it. Calling them “civilians” doesn’t change that reality.
So here's a non-hypothetical one: what happens to a faculty member who gives a talk and says,
“The facts are that there are…two sexes…there are male and female, and those sexes are designated by the kinds of gametes we produce…. we can treat people with respect and respect their gender identities and use their preferred pronouns, so understanding the facts about biology doesn’t prevent us from treating people with respect "?
You're mistaken, clinger. That vile racial slur seems to be Prof. Eugene Volokh's favorite word. I'm the guy who spotlights and quantifies this white, male, right-wing blog's remarkable, telling frequency of publication of that vile racial slur.
You are also the same "guy" who elides the difference between context. If you think that calling a black person the N-word, and reading from Huckleberry Finn, and reading the facts from a decided lawsuit about racial harassment, are all the same thing, then you are either a moron or dishonest.
You seem to think about this word *way* more than the others here.
But Prof. Volokh is not advocating killing them because their culture is sick, but because terrorists are using them as human shields.
He is an insecure person who, like many leftists, likes to feel morally superior. The N-word, which is vile when used to put someone done, is just a means for him to exercise his own moral self-regard.
Unfortunately the evil culture is so deeply ingrained that the only path to long term peace is to destroy the culture.
What is needed is about a decade of revamping the culture, along the lines of the DeNazification that occurred in Germany after WWII.
But I doubt anyone wants to or is capable of doing it. The Palestinians are just not that important to anyone.
Reeducation camps for everyone!
Good lord listen to yourself.
re: "either a moron or dishonest"
Not necessarily "or".
More than 40 occasions . . . hundreds of individual uses . . . if you figure the frequency at which this white, male, right-wing blog publishes vile racial slurs is happenstance, or genuine scholarship, that's just your poor education and conservative bigotry talking.
You are precisely the defender the Volokh Conspiracy deserves . . . and the target audience of this faux libertarian, hypocritical, cowardly blog.
Why don't you try reading what I wrote, you contrarian. Do you consider the DeNazification efforts post-WWII to be immoral?
Good Lord Sacastro - Do you even understand the geopolitical dynamics.
Do even understand that destroying the culture of imperial japan and the nazi ideology worked.
The fact that he does it too:
doesn't seem to matter I guess.
Free speech and good judgment don't always exist together.
Randal, a fairly large sample of America's most-competitive universities discovered during the early years of the Vietnam War that taking the conservative side did impact their operations and missions. Some changed policies because of the impacts.
These are your defenders, Volokh Conspirators . . . and the reason you are no longer wanted on strong, mainstream, reason-based campuses.
You know full well that EV would never support using a slur against any person/group, and that he's by no means a racist. (I wish he would moderate his commenting threads...but alas, he doesn't censor you either...at least not anymore.)
You also know that EV focuses on first amendment scholarship and the like, which by nature tend to raise the most sensitive things. He's also more apt to focus on issues being ignored elsewhere, in general.
And of course, you know all too well that EV is indeed a legitimate scholar who has long been respected even by many who disagree with his right-leaning libertarian bent. In fact, you wouldn't spend so much time here if you didn't know that.
.
Um, most of them? People who hate Jews or support Hamas do not by dint of those odious positions become combatants rather than civilians.
How many times would someone publish a racial slur -- in a year, for example -- before you would begin to develop some suspicions about that person's inclinations? Six times a year? Twelve times a year? More than forty times a year? (Caution: You should be quite careful with this one.)
What about references to transgender issues (transgender parenting, transgender rest rooms, transgender sorority drama, etc., usually in a less-than-flattering context)? How many references in a three- to four-month period before you might wonder about motivation or other issues? (Same caution.)
I will understand if you choose not to answer.
As I recall, the VC left the Washington Post firstly because of the paper's paywall and secondarily because of the paper's censorship of comments. Kookland crossed the latter.
Wrong. Prof. Volokh censored me repeatedly. I do not recall any censorship imposed by the Washington Post.
I am confident the proprietor is grateful for even off-target support, though. It can provide solace as he packs his bags and empties his office.
DN
If you think that most of gazians are mostly "civilians " in the true sense, then that means you dont have a good grasp of the geopolitical situation of the gaza population
They are not civilians. They are collaborators. In the EU partisan used to know what that meant. Fortunately most Israelis still do.
There is only one 'sense' of civilian.
Of course they’re civilians. You think having disgusting sentiments and loyalties is all it takes to make one a combatant? Most Gazans would be delighted to see me dead, so I’m not exactly crazy about them, but that doesn’t deprive them of their status and rights as civilians.
Honestly, we wouldn't be here unless mean assholes kept screaming nasty stuff at people.
If it was some cool as a cucumber scientists saying blah blah, nobody would care and would engage peacefully.
But that's not the context. The context is hatred and sadness they can't throw gays in jail anymore.
Superstitious clingers seem to have no moral compass that works in the reality-based world.
That is part of the reason those obsolete losers are culture war roadkill in modern, improving America.
They aided and abetted Hamas terrorists. Those who worked on the kibbutzim drew detailed maps.That at least makes them spies. The US army executed German spies AFTER the war ended even tough they were compelled to spy as they had gotten into trouble with the German authorities.
"nobody would care and would engage peacefully."
That has been disproven time and time and time again.
If it was some cool as a cucumber scientists saying blah blah, nobody would care and would engage peacefully.
Bullshit. Carole K. Hooven is exactly a cool scientist, not some "mean asshole" screaming nasty stuff at people.
She calmly and cooly said we can and should be respectful toward people's gender preference, while acknowledging the scientific reality of biology - there are 2 sexes.
And she was set upon by a DEI mob and forced to resign.
Yes there actual civilians in Gaza
but dont classify the colloborators, the facilitators, the hama logistical supporters, the gazans that actively promoting and celebrating the Hamas as actual civilians
You think someone is no longer a civilian if they “promote” and “celebrate?” I guess that makes you an acceptable military target.
Any who lent material support may be culpable for abetting war crimes. Those who merely sympathized are entitled to full civilian status protection.