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May a Judge Sanction Lawyers by Requiring Them to Get Remedial Training from a Particular Ideological Organization?
An important question, whether the judge orders lawyers to be trained on religious liberty by the Alliance Defending Freedom, on transgender rights by Lambda Legal, or on race discrimination law by the ACLU.
This is one of many interesting free speech questions raised in Carter v. Transport Workers Union of Am. & Southwest Airlines Co. (N.D. Tex.). Let me discuss those questions in turn.
[1.] We begin with the employer's punishment of employee speech that led to the case in the first place:
In 2017, a flock of Southwest flight attendants descended upon Washington, D.C. for the so-called "Women's March" protesting President Donald J. Trump. Those flight attendants were also Local 556 members, and one—Audrey Stone—was the union's president. During the march, they carried signage emblazoned with Southwest's logo. Carter, a pro-life Christian, objected to the flight attendants' purported representation of Local 556, Southwest, and, by extension, herself—especially given Planned Parenthood's sponsorship of the protest. To voice her objection, Carter sent Stone several private Facebook messages, some of which contained videos of aborted babies. In one of those messages, Carter said, "[t]his is what you supported during your Paid Leave with others at the Women's MARCH."
Stone filed a complaint against Carter with Southwest. After a hearing, Southwest fired Carter, saying that when Carter messaged Stone, she was "identifiable as a Southwest Airlines Employee and represented our Company in a manner that is disparaging to Southwest Flight Attendants."
Carter sued, alleging that (1) Local 556 had breached its duty of fair representation, (2) Southwest and Local 556 had retaliated against Carter for exercising her protected rights under the Railway Labor Act …, and (3) Southwest and Local 556 had discriminated against Carter for her religious beliefs and practices under Title VII. A jury found for Carter on each claim ….
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, among other things, requires employers not to discriminate against employees because of the employees' religious beliefs or religious practices. That means that the employers have to "reasonably accommodate" (so long as they can do so without "undue hardship") employees' religious behavior such as wearing religious headgear, taking their Sabbath off, and the like: Even when a generally applicable, religiously neutral work rule prohibits such behavior (for instance, by setting a dress code or requiring people to work weekends), the employees are entitled to exemptions from that work rule. But the same applies when the religious practice consists of speech; see PDF p. 7 of this article for some examples. The judge therefore allowed Carter's Title VII case to go forward (a decision that eventually led to the jury verdict mentioned above):
Plaintiff alleges that her "religious beliefs require her to share with others that abortion is the taking of a human life." According to Plaintiff, she "discovered that Local 556, the exclusive labor representative of all Southwest flight attendants, participated in the Women's March and supported pro-abortion activities, using Southwest logos on their signs." "In accordance with her religious beliefs and practices, [Plaintiff] posted videos to her personal Facebook page opposing abortion and sent President Stone videos opposing abortion and comments critical of Local 556's support for abortion." Plaintiff alleges that before her termination at her fact-finding meeting, she notified Southwest of her religious beliefs and explained why she sent the Facebook messages to Stone.
Plaintiff contends, "Southwest violated Title VII's anti-discrimination provisions when the [C]ompany terminated [Plaintiff] for her religious beliefs and for engaging in the religious practice of sharing religious beliefs on abortion with the [U]nion president and on her personal Facebook page." According to Plaintiff, "Title VII required Southwest's policies to give way to the need for an accommodation of [Plaintiff's] religious beliefs and practices." Plaintiff further alleges that Southwest violated Title VII "by failing to attempt any accommodation to [Plaintiff's] religious beliefs and practices, including when [Southwest] applied the Social Media Policies to [Plaintiff's] communications on her personal Facebook page and to the [U]nion president."
Accepting all well-pleaded facts as true and viewing them in the light most favorable to the Plaintiff, the Court finds that Plaintiff has stated a plausible Title VII claim for religious discrimination against Southwest. Plaintiff has established "more than a sheer possibility" that her religious beliefs and practice were a factor in Southwest's decision to terminate her. Whether accommodating Plaintiff's religious beliefs would have imposed an undue hardship on Southwest is a fact-intensive inquiry that may be addressed at the summary judgment stage or at trial….
This in effect means that religiously motivated speech—which likely also includes speech that stems from "moral or ethical beliefs as to what is right and wrong which are sincerely held with the strength of traditional religious views" (PDF p. 8)—is treated more favorably by the law than is other speech, such as political commentary that stems from pragmatic concerns. (I discuss a related issue as to RFRAs here.) One can argue that this itself violates the First Amendment. Or one can view this as a reason to narrow Title VII's duty of religious accommodation, to exclude claims of protection for religious speech on moral or political matters, or to broaden Title VII to protect employee speech more broadly. But so far, the court's analysis is well within the mainstream of currently existing Title VII law.
[2.] Now let's turn to a speech compulsion imposed as a result on the employer. After the verdict, the judge issued an injunction ordering Southwest and the union not to violate Title VII's religion-related provisions (more at PDF pp. 27-28 here on why it thought such a broad injunction was proper), and also required the defendants to notify employees about this:
Accordingly, the Court ORDERS Local 556 to post the jury's verdict and the accompanying Final Judgment in conspicuous places at the union hall for a 60-day period and issue them electronically to all union members.
The Court likewise ORDERS Southwest to post the jury's verdict and the accompanying Final Judgment on company bulletin boards for a 60-day period and issue them electronically to all Southwest flight attendants.
The Court ORDERS Southwest and Local 556 to inform Southwest flight attendants that, under Title VII, they may not discriminate against Southwest flight attendants for their religious practices and beliefs, including—but not limited to—those expressed on social media and those concerning abortion.
This is of course compelling the union and Southwest to speak, as a consequence of their adjudicated past violation of the law. In principle, one could argue that this should be seen as violating the First Amendment. But such orders are fairly common and are generally seen as constitutional, I believe, in labor law cases, and are sometimes issued in Title VII cases as well. Rightly or wrongly, employers are often required to post various sorts of information related to employment law, whether general information about employees' rights or specific information about adjudicated violations by the employer.
[3.] Finally, we get to a compulsion to listen, imposed on Southwest's lawyers. Southwest appealed the injunction, but expressly said it "does not seek a stay of the Court's reinstatement order or its orders regarding injunctive relief." It was thus bound by the injunction, and here's what it wrote to its employees:
The judge concluded this was inconsistent with the injunction, because it said that "Southwest does not discriminate" rather than that Title VII provides that Southwest "may not discriminate":
Southwest's notice failed to mention Title VII, that the federal law known as Title VII contains a prohibition, and that that prohibition forbids Southwest from discriminating against flight attendants for their religious beliefs. Instead, Southwest's notice communicated that there's nothing to see here—aside from the Court's bequeathing Southwest a badge of honor for not discriminating (which the Court did not do).
Southwest also wrote to its employees:
The judge concluded this was inconsistent with the injunction as well, in particular as to the passage that "We have established policies and guidelines that we must all adhere to," coupled with the statement that Southwest viewed Carter's speech as not adhering to those policies:
Not content with merely inverting the Court's notice, Southwest also sent a memo to its flight attendants the same day, stating that its employees must abide by the types of policies over which Southwest fired Carter and that it believed its firing of Carter was justified because of those policies.
The judge went on to reason:
Southwest also argues that it has the right to speak, just like it did with the memo to flight attendants reminding them to abide by the policies over which it unlawfully fired Carter. The Court agrees that Southwest has the right to speak. But Southwest has long harbored the view—during trial, after the verdict, and (as evinced by its memo to flight attendants) even after the judgment—that its policies on civility trump federal laws like Title VII. And if Southwest continues to represent to its flight attendants that it may discriminate against them if they violate Southwest's civility policies, Southwest will likely find itself (yet again) on the wrong side of the Court's order. Southwest needs to understand, when communicating with its employees, that federal protections for religious freedom override any company civility policy….
Because Southwest's right to speak when implementing the Court's injunction ensures a continued partnership in the future, and Southwest's speech and actions toward employees demonstrate a chronic failure to understand the role of federal protections for religious freedom, the Court concludes that training on religious freedom for three lawyers at Southwest the Court finds responsible … is the least restrictive means of achieving compliance with the Court's order. The Alliance Defending Freedom ("ADF") has conducted such training in the past, and the Court deems that appropriate here.
And just this past Thursday, the judge reaffirmed the order.
Court-ordered training of lawyers whom the judge views as responsible for improper behavior in a case before the court is also not uncommon. Indeed, the Fifth Circuit (the federal court that supervises district courts in Texas) had recently authorized requiring a lawyer to "complete 3 hours of CLE courses in ethics" as a sanction, and other courts had done similar things.
But I don't think it's normal to require training to be done by a specific organization, and I think there is good reason to be skeptical of this, on First Amendment grounds. The ADF is indeed, as the judge noted, highly knowledgeable about religious freedom law, and may well be experienced in training:
ADF has won multiple Supreme Court cases in recent years on the topic of religious liberties, evidencing an understanding of religious liberties. And because ADF has agreed to conduct topical trainings in the past, ADF appears well-suited to train Southwest's lawyers on a topic with which the lawyers evidently struggle.
But at the same time, ADF is an ideological organization, with its own commitments about how the law should be understood and enforced. It's possible that any law firm, even a less overtly ideological one than ADF, would likewise have its own set of such commitments; but it seems particularly clear for ADF. And indeed I'm not aware of any established practice of courts requiring training by a particular firm: The cases that I've seen ordering training leave it to the target to choose among a set of eligible providers, for instance any Continuing Legal Education provider that provides training on particular topics.
Thus, for instance, say an employer was found to have discriminated based on, say, race or gender identity, and its lawyers were sanctioned for some noncompliance with the court's orders as to such matters, noncompliance that the judge views as stemming from a lack of knowledge of the law. The lawyers might well be ordered to take further CLE courses on the relevant legal rules. But I wouldn't expect them to be ordered to take such classes from, say, the ACLU or Lambda Legal.
As a general matter, the government can't bar us from speaking, can't force us to speak, and can't bar us from listening. I think it likewise generally shouldn't be able to force us to listen (though I appreciate that courts generally haven't spoken expressly to that).
Of course, there are exceptions, when the government is managing various government-run institutions. Government employees' speech can be restricted significantly on the job, and the employer can of course require them to listen to training. Colleges students are restricted in what they can say in class, and of course they can be required to read the class assignments, to listen to lecturers, and to answer homework questions or exam questions or in-class questions based on those assignments and lectures.
Lawyers likewise are limited in what they can say in the courtroom and in the litigation process more generally. They can be required to say certain things. And they can be required to listen to certain things, whether by their professional obligations (a lawyer who refuses to listen to a witness's statement, because he finds it offensive, is committing malpractice) or as a sanction for violating court orders.
But it seems to me that the First Amendment requires that these mandates be limited to what's really necessary, and not be made potentially unduly ideological. If a lawyer has to learn about some subject, the court may order that the lawyer do so. But it shouldn't require that the lawyer learn about the subject from a particular ideological advocacy group, which is likely—just as a matter of human nature—to impress its teachings with a particular perspective.
I'm not saying this to fault ADF: I don't think there's anything wrong with ADF-provided training being influenced by ADF's views, even while it also provides an accurate summary of the law. People who voluntary go to ADF-run training programs likely expect and want it to be colored by those views. I just think that it's likely that there will be such influence, whether on training by ADF or the ACLU or Lambda Legal, especially when nothing in the court orders requires the trainers to take extraordinary steps to make sure that their training be as neutral as possible.
Now I should note (as the judge did, in rejecting the objection to the ADF, see n. 56) that Southwest focused on training by a particular group being "unprecedented" rather than a First Amendment violation (see PDF p. 24). Nonetheless, it seems to me that judges should craft their orders to avoid needless intrusions on people's First Amendment rights, even in the absence of an objection. And I think that requiring lawyers to take training from particular ideological groups, left, right, or otherwise—or, I'd say, even from groups that claim to be nonideological—is indeed such a needless intrusion.
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The bottom line for the recipient of such court-ordered demands is: It is too expensive in time and money to fight back. -- And who wants to be re-hired after drubbing your employer legally. The whole thing is againstthe employee.
The Jordan Peterson case is instructive. A HUGE fine, a public disgrace, a branding among violent ideologs as a 'hater'.
and just to be obvious, as anyone with children knows : Such re-education will in 95% of the cases make the recipient more ensconced in their view not less. The courts, the re-educators, your employer dont give a sht what you think , they want their jobs and they want peace at any cost.
"Such re-education will in 95% of the cases make the recipient more ensconced in their view not less. The courts, the re-educators, your employer dont give a sht what you think , they want their jobs and they want peace at any cost."
As one sentenced to it by UMass, I assure you this is the case.
It actually was a fun weekend -- for me, not them, as I knew their ideology better then they did and had great fun demonstrating that.
But I actually was a Gary Hart campaign volunteer.
Which is less surprising, that Dr. Ed was required to undergo sensitivity training, or that it didn't work?
Jordan Peterson! You huckleberries get the heroes you deserve
Once I got to the religious obligation to spam colleagues the entire rest of this litigation is just silly. It's like one of those "what if green was blue?" hypos that help you learn about tricky legal issues. They can be useful in a classroom, but the rest of the time they're just silly.
Without any regard to the religious aspect of it, the union president went on a protest while officially identifying herself, and then complained when one of the union members said she didn't like what the union president was doing on the member's behalf. It seems entirely reasonable that the membership should be able to complain about actions that the union takes on its members' behalf. It never needed to get into religious freedom. If she didn't want comments from the union membership, she goes in her private capacity instead.
What I don't understand here is what right management has to even read a communication between a union member and the union president -- every contract I've seen explicitly prohibits this.
What if she had instead written "Management is a bunch of greedy assholes, I think we should go on strike."
The only way they knew she was a SWA employee was because she was a member of the union -- I think the NLRB ought to sanction the union for releasing this to management in the first place.
There is a different first amendment issue here -- compelled speech -- and can members of private sector unions go agency fee?
From what I read, Stone forwarded the communication to Southwest in HER complaint against Carter.
And Southwest should have sent it right back to her saying that it was inter-union business and because SWA respects both her union and SWA's responsibilities under contract, it regrettably is unable to address this matter. Cite a few NLRB regs or rulings for good measure.
Or, conversely, as the NLRB for an advisory ruling as to if SWA had any authority in this matter because of its inter-union nature.
A first amendment right to be free from hearing things you disagree with? I don't see how that's remotely plausible. Particularly as a remedy imposed by a court after you have been found to violate the law.
If the court can't control the source of the training, then the law breakers just find somebody to "train them" in a meaningless way. I practice government transparency law (records & meetings), and I often seek training requirements as part of an equitable remedy or settlement. The government usually wants the training from state lobbying groups like the League of Wisconsin Municipalities or Wisconsin Association of School Boards, and I never agree - those organizations give advice that often leads to the lawsuits I'm filing. Typically they advise their member organizations on how to get away with as much secrecy as possible, I don't want them providing the training.
Knowing the folks running ADF, and they knowing that they will be scrutinized, I have no doubt this will be "by the book" with no bias inserted.
That said, I don't like the idea of "training" anyway -- it's right out of the Communist concept of "re-education" and it isn't going to work anyway.
Now making the attorneys re-take the bar exam -- that'd be effective...
Effective at what?
At ensuring that the lawyers in question are sufficiently proficient to advise their clients / employers in future, as to how to comply with injunctions ?
I was thinking knowledgeable in religion law.
Are lawyers subject to continuing learning requirements, or license renewal? Having to retake the bar exam seems like requiring someone to retake the SAT, would that have any appreciable effect? Or would it be more akin to the Professional Engineering exam (or other equivalent?)
There's a lot to dislike about this case, not least the juxtaposition of bad First Amendment analysis and bad puns (e.g., "Southwest may 'wanna get away' from Carter because she might continue to express her beliefs, but the jury found that Southwest unlawfully terminated Carter for her protected expressions").
I wonder if Southwest could have sought a partial stay pending appeal such that it could have reinstated the employee but avoided the company-wide admission of guilt. In the seemingly likely event of at least a partial reversal on appeal, it is going to be mighty confusing if the company sends out a second email essentially saying "ignore that email we sent you two years ago. We were in the right all along."
The training requirement for Southwest's lawyers is not only problematic in that the judge picked an advocacy group with a very pronounced political perspective but also because he appears to be punishing advocacy itself. It is far from settled law that religious accommodation requires companies to have more lax civility standards for employees of faith than for everyone else. If the lawyers are being trained for failing to force their clients to abide by the judge's idiosyncratic view of Title VII's religious accommodation requirement, that is a direct attack on the adversary system, and thus the rule of law itself.
Just another step where government is moving towards Christian Nationalism as the Established Religion of the nation, 1st A be damned.
Would you say the same if a CEO was ordered by a court to take “diversity” training where he is forced to hear about the virtues of celebrating people like the Rev. Kirkland when he barebacks 100 men? How consistent is your ideology?
It was the intent of the framers to establish (or actually to maintain) Christian nationalism. The First Amendment was only to ensure that one state did not impose its version of it on the others, i.e. Massachusetts didn't impose Puritanism on everyone else.
"Flock" of Flight Attendants???
So they're like birds? (well from what I've of Southwest's Operation they do employ alot of Old Crows)
Frank
I think black thugs who commit violent crimes against whites because of the color of their skin should be required to attend a white supremacist training session.
What would a "white supremacist training session" be?
how to tie a hangman's noose?? (trying to remember, the rabbit come out of his hole, and goes to the right? or left?)
Frank
What would a “white supremacist training session” be?
Formation marching?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPQjTcb5zGM
Class introduction:
Brothers! Oh, brothers! We have all gathered here, to preserve our hallowed culture and heritage! We aim to pull evil up by the root, before it chokes out the flower of our culture and heritage! And our women, let's not forget those ladies, y'all. Looking to us for protection! From darkies, from Jews, from papists, and from all those smart-ass folks say we come descended from monkeys! That's not my culture and heritage! Is that your culture and heritage?
I attended a Klan recruitment rally (for children) more than a half-century ago. I do not remember many details about the presentation that followed the ragtag circus -- I was still focused on the free candy and drinks at the concession stand -- but your account sounds familiar.
Some books and lectures by Jared Taylor?
Let’s step back a bit to the original case, before getting to the sanctions order and whether a judge can order attornies to undergo specific ideological “education” from a pet organization.
I think that the Court’s previous religious accommodation jurisprudence was way too narrow. But the idea that Title VII gives religious employees an unfettered right to prosyletize their unbelieving co-workers?
That seems more like an entitlement to harrass than protection from harassment.
Before I was self employed, my homosexual coworkers constantly proselytize. Why no outrage?
"Before I was self employed"
Guessing this was not voluntary.
No, I went out on my own because I got tired of the DEI bullshit that all private employers subscribe to. I don't black coworkers, I don't want black friends. I don't want transgender friends. The only place I want transgenders is in concentration camps.
This is the blog for you!
Where have I heard that before?
https://www.theonion.com/why-do-all-these-homosexuals-keep-sucking-my-cock-1819583529
Now just wait a minute. She didn't use a company forum, and she was forced to associate with the "co-worker" via union membership.
Not only that, but she was required to PAY for the union activists speech -- union expenses, union time off, etc.
And as to ADF, wouldn't Trinity Lutheran apply in that a religious outfit can't be denied a contract merely because it is religious.
When TWA was decided, 4 justices had previously said they thought that any accommodation of religion at all would represent a violation of the Establishment Clause. I don’t agree with that.
But on reflection, getting past my initial visceral “ick” response, it seems to me that if Title VII is interpreted to require employers to permit their religious employees to disseminate religious messages to their fellow employees – only religious employees and only religious messages, not other kinds – it could be highly susceptible to an Establishment Clause challenge, at least as applied.
As to "ick", can you imagine what TWA would have done if some of its stewardesses had advocated for abortion in the 1960'?
Yep, they'd be gone. Immediately....
Heck, they were gone if they got pregnant...
Isn't there also a problem with the organization being explicitly religiously sectarian?
From there own website; "Alliance Defending Freedom is one of the leading Christian law firms committed to protecting religious freedom, free speech, marriage and family, parental rights, and the sanctity of life."
What if the Southwest lawyers aren't Christian? Can you make non-believers attend a presentation by an explicitly sectarian organization? Could you sanction someone by making them take classes presented by Catholic organizations? Jewish ones? Etc.?
I have a suspicion that if the Court made Christian attorneys attend a religious liberties training led by CAIR (an organization that also has expertise in this area of law), the Fifth Circuit would not be pleased and ADF would be filing amicus briefs arguing against such a sanction.
I think it would depend if CAIR could be objectively neutral in presenting the law -- which I doubt. I believe ADF can be, and you kinda know the bleep will hit the fan if they aren't.
Shorter Dr. Ed:
Muslims BAD
Christians GOOD
And what's wrong with that?
Let your bigoted discrimination flag fly, dude!
The question is who is able to teach these lawyers what the law says. Disqualifying a specific organization from providing legal training because of its members' religion is ... exactly the kind of advice that might lead a judge to order you to get remedial training from ADF or a similar firm.
It’s not bigoted to suggest that people shouldn’t order training by explicitly sectarian religious organizations whose goal is to promote that religion.
“ Disqualifying a specific organization from providing legal training because of its members’ religion”
No one is “disqualified from training” here. They can do all the training they want. It might even be great and worthwhile. The problem is using force of law to order someone to take a training from an explicitly sectarian religious organization. That’s the issue. And admit it: you’d be super mad if this was a Biden Judge ordering lawyers to take trainings from CAIR.
It’s also not the about the members’ religion.” It is about the specific and stated goals of the firm as a whole. It’s on their website, dude; they’re specific type of Christian and they’re using their firm to promote a specific form Christianity through legal practice.
And a similar firm to ADF would also be…an explicitly Christian firm explicitly working to promote specific Christian values. So if your suggestion is that having a problem with this will lead to more training by these groups, then what you’re really countenancing is using the force of law to compel people to be part of a Christian movement.
Boorish, gullible, obsolete culture war casualties -- such as Carter -- have rights, too.
But probably not the right to have their cases judged by a similarly superstitious, disaffected, right-wing loser such as Judge Brantley Starr.
Finally I agree with you. No litigant has the right to appear before a judge of their choice.
All organizations are ideological organizations. Nobody organizes for no particular reason except dadaists, and only then because of their ideology.
Southwest should have stayed out of it. It was between Carter and the Union. I have to wonder if Southwest wasn't given an implied threat of a work stoppage or slowdown if they didn't do something about Carter.
Or maybe the union is actually functioning as an extension of management, rather than representing the employees?
In any event, I guess I can see why the court would want to specify where Southwest would get the training; Based on their conduct to that point, it seems likely they'd go find somebody to provide it who'd tell them, "You were in the right, that judge is a lunatic.", which wouldn't be terribly remedial...
Brett, These days who knows. I can remember the UMW telling the coal miners in our area to vote for Hilary even though she openly stated that she wanted shut down coal. A place I used to work for had a Union shop floor. The Union put up flyers for their members to take a day off to go to a rally to support Obamacare. The UNION paid the members for the day and Management was TOLD that if they didn't like it they would stage a slowdown. This was a Company that was on it's last legs and had deadlines to meet.
That's on Stone, the union president. Part of her job as president is to listen to member's concerns, so it's a job that calls for a thick skin. And if she does feel that she has to take action, she should have looked for approaches that kept Southwest out of the dispute. The communications took place on Facebook, which I believe includes the ability to block communications from other users.
For its part, Southwest isn't supposed to treat a complaint from the Union president any differently from a complaint filed by anyone else, and there is no indication that they did. I don't think Federal labor laws allowed Southwest to tell Stone, in effect, that “You claim that another employee is harassing you, but since you are the president of the union, we will allow the harassment to continue.” So once Stone filed a complaint, Southwest didn't have the option of staying out of the dispute.
Under your theory, when does federal labor law require an employer to resolve a union-based dispute between two employees that happens entirely off of company premises? And does that apply to complaints against union officials harassing or threatening other employees, or does your theory only work to the benefit of union officials and against anyone they victimize?
In Canada, the courts have ordered Jordan Peterson to submit to re-education. That's patently offensive, but I doubt if it will change Peterson's views. In my view, that is similar to China's Cultural Revolution.
In the USA, our speech is supposed to be more protected than in Canada. I am not the first to see some US trends that sound like the Cultural Revolution.
Jordan is exploring his options to stream the training live.
That might be entertaining.
The cases that I've seen ordering training leave it to the target to choose among a set of eligible providers, for instance any Continuing Legal Education provider that provides training on particular topics.
The word "eligible" is bearing a lot of weight here. The problem is - how is the judge to be confident that the training he imposes is the training that is given ?
This is an ideologically charged area, and there is perfectly good reason to suppose that many law firms capable of giving excellent training on non controversial topics, might struggle to achieve the necessary standard of training if they take the view that the judge is batshit crazy and should not have sanctioned the lawyers at all.
So if the judge wants the training to be "done right" he's going to have to specify the trainer, or at least a selection of trainers that he thinks are competent in this area.. Leaving it to the choice of the people who have just abused his injunction is just asking to be shown the middle finger.
Whether it's appropriate to order training in the first place is a different question.
Lee Moore:
Even if I were to agree with you, the judge could at least give the person a choice of providers instead of choosing one particular provider. The problem with judges pushing particular providers is because that can be a mechanism for trying to indoctrinate people into adopting particular views.
Up to a point, Lord Copper.
1. There are, as you say, good reasons for the judge not to insist on one particular provider, both because of the indoctrination issue you mention, and because of the issue of graft.
2. But there's no conceivable reason for the person who has breached the injunction to get a choice. You might as well give the choice to the contending party in the lawsuit on who's behalf the breached injunction was granted.
3. Ignoring the extra cost and fuss, you could have the trainer being agreed between the parties to the case, with the default in case of disagreement being to leave it to the judge. Or you could specify that the other team's lawyers - being the winners who therefore presumptively know more relevant law than the losers - could have dibs on the training.
4. But allowing the guilty party to choose the Monty Python "soft cushions" ordeal is not going to cut it.
5. Personally, I'd skip the training and go for the swingeing fine on the litigant. The litigant and their lawyers can then argue about whether the lawyers should recompense for their bad advice. In extremis, both the litigant and their lawyers could stare at the world for a few days from between the prison bars.
You are arguing about whether the training will be effective or not if the lawyer chooses it. Well, if the issue is really the attorney's lack of understanding of the law, then the attorney has an incentive to choose a competent provider. If the attorney really is defiant as you are postulating, why would you think they would be teachable anyway.
You suggest alternatives of fines for the attorneys or even time in jail for contempt of court. I agree with you. These alternatives would be much preferable than court-ordered indoctrination. In fact, courts do not have a compelling government interest in ordering attorneys to improve their education versus otherwise sanctioning them.
Asking the attorneys to do CLE is based on nothing more than the judge desiring to "go easy" on the attorneys. Well, there can be no quid pro quo where we ignore the First Amendment in exchange for going easy on the attorneys. Protecting the First Amendment is not about protecting the attorneys; generally speaking, they would likely be more than happy to waive such rights in order to avoid punishment. However, we simply should not allow such rights to be waived in this context even if that means that attorneys are worse off.
I think we are 87.2% in agreement.
"In fact, courts do not have a compelling government interest in ordering attorneys to improve their education versus otherwise sanctioning them."
I'm not sure about "compelling" but I think most of the point of requiring lawyers to be qualified as such is to improve the efficiency of the court system, rather than as a consumer protection scheme. So if lawyers are genuinely incompetent, the court has an interest in their education or their retirement.
I think the real object of the "training" is punishment. You have to sit and listen to people you hate telling you things you already know, but hate, when you could be out and about shooting pool, or sending a fat legal bill to another client. And I agree that punishing by forcing people to listen to what they don't want to hear is unattractive. Though whether it's a 1st Amendment issue I don't know. (Though it probably ought to be.)
As to going easy on the lawyers I think you are mistaken. I suspect the judge thinks that a financial penalty on SouthWest and/or its lawyers would be shrugged off. It'd be pennies for SouthWest, and the lawyers would be reimbursed by SouthWest immediately. So a financial penalty would be no penalty. Hence the re-education penalty. It does actually waste a chunk of the lawyers time, it's annoying and even marginally humiliating. So it's not "going easy" on the lawyers.
But it would still be better to do without the forced listening. Perhaps the best solution - and one which would find great favor with 98.5% of the population, would be to stick the lawyers in the stocks for a couple of hours. Wastes their time ? Check. Annoying ? Check. Marginally humiliating ? Check.
And hugely entertaining for the members of the public throwing rotten fruit and vegetables. And good for the dry cleaning community, because those suits are gonna need a good clean.
Everyone probably needs to listen to things they don't want to hear occasionally.
I have mixed feelings about this mandatory training from an opposing ideological viewpoint is bad. However mandatory training because you have tried to flout the law from an organization that will try to teach you more subtle ways to flout the law is probably worse.
The bottom line is this if the judge picks an organization he thinks teaches the law most faithfully to the current state of the law, then I think he is on solid ground, even if the current state.if the law, as is often the case, does have an ideological bent.
It is not up to the judge to decide that a particular teacher is best. Recall that the lawyer is also a citizen. They do not have to agree with the law or even agree with the Constitution. They are instead only required to uphold it.
In such circumstances, it should absolutely be up to the lawyer as a citizen and not the judge as a public servant to decide on the teacher. It is only proper to order the attorney to learn what the law requires, not also to face additional propaganda that the law is a good thing or a bad thing. Opinions on whether the law is good or bad is for the citizen to make on their own. Lawyers, in their professional role must uphold the law as it exists until it is formally changed. They don't have to like the law or believe in the law, however.
Why should choosing a teacher be up to the lawyer who gave incorrect legal advice? At a minimum, the court should review and approve the choice of remedial training course, in order to be sure that the course will teach law as it actually is, and thus have the desired remedial effect. If the lawyer's conduct was particularly egregious, the court could reasonably conclude that the lawyer will waste the court's time with frivolous selections.
Besides ordering CLE (which a slap on the wrist), courts can issue other sanctions, including fines and more.
Given this context (slap on the wrist), it should be up to the attorney to choose a competent provider. If the issue REALLY is the education level of the attorney, they have every incentive to do so in order to avoid a repeat of the issue.
If, after there slap in the wrist, they continue to repeat the "mistake" then more severe sanctions are in order. (I put mistake in quotes because if a person behaves badly after being warned, is it really a mistake anymore???)
I strongly agree with this.
Once again, we have an issue with an official forgetting that the are a public servant. As such, they shouldn’t be seeking to indoctrinate individuals. Requiring that someone receive training from a specific source, with their own specific spin on the material, is indoctrination.
Indeed, if the lawyer wants to get CLE from someone who explains the law, only to also criticize the law in the process, they should be able to do that.
One issue. These lawyers are not likely to object to this training requirement as a practical matter. The effort to do so is too high, unless they are truly committed to the First Amendment over their self-interest, which is unlikely. For this reason, judges should be encouraged to not trample on rights on their own. The judge here took an oath to uphold the Constitution. It is times like this, when there is likely to be no push back, that a principled judge should refrain from making orders like this.
Our law, as Brandeis said, is the omnipresent teacher. I'm not sure ADF is, though.