Saudi Sentenced to Death for Tweets Criticizing Government

From a Thursday article by CNN (Hande Atay Alam & Celine Alkhaldi):

Muhammad al-Ghamdi, a 54-year-old retired Saudi teacher, was sentenced "following 5 tweets criticizing corruption and human rights violations," his brother Saeed bin Nasser al-Ghamdi tweeted last week.

According to Human Rights Watch, Muhammad al-Ghamdi was arrested last year and given little access to a lawyer before his conviction in July "under article 30 of Saudi Arabia's counterterrorism law for 'describing the King or the Crown Prince in a way that undermines religion or justice,' article 34 for 'supporting a terrorist ideology,' article 43 for 'communication with a terrorist entity,' and article 44 for publishing false news 'with the intention of executing a terrorist crime.'" …

Comments

[hoppy025]

I'm at the point where I can't and don't care about what happens elsewhere in the world if it doesn't directly affect the United States. We could have imposed a real embargo on Saudi Arabia years ago and refused to have anything to do with them. But we didn't, because we were too selfish to drill for our own oil. So we are stuck with them and their third world jihadist ideology.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I'd like to hear the government's version of this -- which may be quite a bit different. "communication with a terrorist entity,' and 'with the intention of executing a terrorist crime.' strikes me as a bit more than merely saying that the king sucks.

Maybe not, but if CNN tells me it is raining, I want confirmation.

[Magister]

It's really easy to get the same information from other sources; Google something obvious like death sentence al-Ghamdi, and name a site you trust; I found it from a variety of sources including breitbart.com. The story appears similar all around, although I also learned from Human Rights Watch that it was not only Twitter posts but also YouTube.

(Once you master that, can you apply the same process of Googling for confirmation to the half-remembered/made-up crap you post regularly?)

[Vryedni]

Yeah, that'll happen.

[Social Justice is neither]

He might have organized a protest leftists don't like or something else inconsequential given the use of such charges in the J6 persecutions.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Hoppy, we DID drill for our own oil -- over there.

Who do you think FOUND all that oil under the sand? The Saudis?
Come now -- they couldn't do it TODAY and definitely couldn't have back in the 1940's. They just stole American property and nationalized the wells, which we should have considered an act of war but they sold it to us cheap so we were OK with what they did.

But when they shut off the supply in 1973 in response to Israel being able to defend itself, we should have invaded. Nixon probably didn't dare because (a) we were war weary from Vietnam and (b) all the dirty hippies would have rioted. Rioted more than they already were.

He did convince them to drop it about 8 months later, but they TRIPLED the price and that spun the US into a major recession. We should have invaded...

[Frank Drackman]

Wow, Dr. Ed2 gets one right (at last)
almost all of the Saudi Oil is from the Eastern Province, only a few hundred feet underground, and every year the Estimated Reserves go up, almost like it's refilling or re-generating, "Non Renewable" my Keester,
Yeah, right, "Our Saudi Allies" ever hear of "9-11" ?? Obama Bin Laden?? You could take the entire Oil producing area of Saudi Arabia with a Marine Regiment, (who cares about Riyadh? the Red Sea) Of course wouldn't be a need to do it if we'd drill (lets see, we can't drill off the Atlantic Coast, can't drill of the Pacific Coast, can't drill off much of Florida,) Fuck, we've got more Oil than anyone, and Senescent/Sleepy/Parkinsonian Joe's making us buy it from our fucking enemies!

Frank

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

No preemptive nuclear strikes? This is a rather mild comment from you...

[SimonP]

The United States has been and remains the global leader in crude oil and natural gas production. The problem is that we use so much of it that we need to buy it from other countries, too. So while domestic drilling is an important part of energy independence, so too is the development of sustainable energy.

But, no, don't let facts get in the way of your whole ignorant spiel. You and Dr. Ed really are making this a shit place to be. Congratulations?

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

I'm particularly intrigued by the notion that American companies' discoveries of natural resources in other countries somehow transfers ownership of those natural resources to the discovering companies. How convenient for them!

I'm not sure if that's the way the industry worked way back when oil was first being discovered and extracted around the world, but it certainly bears no resemblance to the way natural resources are currently exploited by the countries in which they are found today.

These days, resource-rich sovereigns simply licence the temporary rights to explore and extract oil and gas--and control the royalties for doing so. If any of those countries try to "nationalize" such contracts these days, they are generally taken to ISDR courts of arbitration, where they invariably (albeit eventually) lose. Works for me.

[Vryedni]

When empathy has lost hoppy and Dr. Ed....

[Internet sloth]

audissay ommitcay umanhay ightsray iolationsvay ithway impunityyay ecausebay eythay avehay uckfay ouyay oneymay .

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

I don't dig on swine.

[Nige]

Well that's fucking horrible.

[Magister]

His brother's activity also seems a significant factor.

Al-Ghamdi’s brother Saeed, a well-known Saudi Islamic scholar and government critic living in self-imposed exile in the United Kingdom, said he believe the severity of the sentence is designed to punish him as well.

“The Saudi authorities asked me several times to return to Saudi Arabia, but I refused to do so. It is very probable that this death sentence against my brother is in retaliation for my activity. Otherwise, his charges wouldn’t have carried such a severe penalty,” he said.

They might ask him to visit a Saudi embassy to get his brother's sentence reduced; I'm sure they'll pinkie swear no bone saws.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Remember that Jan 6th was merely criticism of the government.

Again, I'd like to hear the government's version because it might not quite be as innocent as saying that the king sucks. Although remember that the right to say that is a Western tradition and they are not a Western country.

Wasn't Osama Bin Laden an "Islamic Scholar"?

[Magister]

More of Dr. Ed 2's opinions, leading with a lie about January 6th.

In the US: violent insurrection against the government was mere criticism of the government; nobody should believe anything the government says.

In Saudi Arabia: we need to hear the government's version of things to decide if they were justified in sentencing this guy to death; until then, they should be given the benefit of the doubt. But he's an Islamic scholar, so maybe not.

[Osama bin Laden] was not trained as a religious scholar, and indeed, never claimed to be one, according to Michael Scheuer, who formerly headed the CIA's bureau tracking bin Laden, in his book, "Osama bin Laden,"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/was-osama-bin-laden-not-a-muslim-leader/2011/05/03/AFdVDUjF_blog.html

[Vryedni]

Thought crime! Send him to Saudi Arabia for summary execution, followed by a lengthy prison term.

[Frank Drackman]

Spent nearly 9 months in Saudi Arabia (with a brief side trip to Kuwait City) during Deserts Shield/Storm
Occasionally would have to treat a Saudi National (no Bedouin's, mostly rich A-holes)
As we'd been instructed to "Respect our Saudi Host's Moos-lum Sensitivities" I'd make sure they knew they were being treated by a Jew, none of them seemed to mind.
Funny how you don't see many videos of peoples looting stores in Riyadh,

Frank

[Internet sloth]

How did you know they were A-holes?

[SRG2]

He got along well with them 😉

[Mr. Bumble]

Because they had money out the wazoo?

[SRG2]

It is my understanding that for years, wealthy Saudis (and other Arabs) were secretly going to Israel for medical treatments,

[Darth Buckeye]

I have a friend who was born and grew up in Saudi Arabia; his dad was an employee of Aramco. I defer to him when it comes to what life is like in that country.

[Dr. Ed 2]

They probably were under the same orders as you -- and if they were rich, had a lot more to lose than you did.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

The Democrats sanctioned Nigeria for banning aggravated homosexual child molesting but will do nothing over this.

[Frank Drackman]

Well, duh, they're a bunch of aggravated homosexual child molesting Poofs, at least Andrew Cuomo ("I'm not a Homo") liked women, Probably Eric Balls-smell too, Calvin Loathsome, and of course the smartest guy our Parkinsonian/Senescent/Somnolent POTUS knows,
Hunter Biden....
Hey, I get why he's stiffing his Baby-Mama for the Child Support,
like 1: He'll pay it, 2: He'll Pay it, 3: that's why she took him to Court, because he wouldn't Pay it,
4: Peoples say "45" isn't that rich, how rich is Hunter if he can't pay a pidling bullshit few hundred $$ child support??

Frank

[Mr. Bumble]

Well he did give her (not sure if it was the baby or mom) one of his “works of art” as part of the settlement.. Wonder what that will bring in the open market?

[grb]

BravoCharlieDelta : “The Democrats sanctioned Nigeria for banning aggravated homosexual child molesting but will do nothing over this”

Says a supporter of Donald Trump! He was the president who actually helped the Saudis whitewash the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, Who rejected the CIA conclusion Crown Prince bin Salman ordered the killing. Who then lied and said the CIA never reached any finding. Who refused to even mention the assassination the next time he and Pompeo met the Saudi prince. Trump later boasted of helping bin Salman over the killing, saying “I saved his ass”.

And why not? The payoff would come just a few months after the Trump presidency, when the Saudis gave Jared Kushner two billion dollars. This was out of a government fund and the Saudi agency managing it had recommended against the investment, finding it too risky. They were overruled bin Salman. It was time to pay up for services rendered…..

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/jared-kushner-scores-2-billion-investment-from-saudi-arabia-report-11649700763

“Former first son-in-law Jared Kushner received a $2 billion investment from Saudi Arabia’s sovereign wealth fund — with expected annual management fees of $25 million, according to a New York Times report. Kushner’s firm, Affinity Partners, made the deal shortly after President Donald Trump left office, despite a Saudi Public Investment Fund review panel’s concerns about “inexperience” and a due-diligence review that was “unsatisfactory in all aspects,” according to minutes of a June meeting reported by the New York Times. Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman leads the fund’s board, which overruled the skeptics.”

[Krayt]

Boy, Hunter made a ridiculous amount, but that barely shows up as a rounding error on this one. Why haven't I heard about it?

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

As sleazy as it seems, there's not much that can be done about it, because it occurred after Trump left office. Unless some evidence comes to light it would be very hard to prove that Trump had quid-pro-quo'd it while he was on his knees to another of his "strongman" dictator pals.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

If there is a Middle Eastern country that deserves anything other than scorn it does not readily come to mind. Saudi Arabia might be the worst in that robust field of failure, immorality, ignorance, and despicability.

[Jonathan Affleck]

It's hard to defend the regime of Saudi Arabia, but the Zionist state, with which the USA is even more intertwined, is similarly vile.

I posed the following questions to Francesca Albanese but have not yet received an answer.

These question are directed both to the foundations of international anti-genocide law and also to the integrity of international law.

On Apr 27, 2023, Arutz Sheva Israel National News disclosed that Francesca Albanese stated that she is going to look into whether Israel is committing genocide.

Every discussion of jus cogens asserts that the ban on genocide is jus cogens.

“[A] treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm [jus cogens] of general international law.”

On Dec 11, 1946 the UN GA unanimously banned genocide in A/RES/96. Because the UN GA vote was unanimous, no SC resolution was necessary for A/RES/96 to have force of international law.

Does A/RES/96 create the international legal ban on genocide and make this ban jus cogens? [Question 1]

With this resolution, the international community seems to have voided a clause of an international instrument if the clause legalizes genocide, enables genocide, or otherwise circumvents the ban on genocide.

How the crime of genocide was defined on Dec 11, 1946

The International Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG) did not enter into force until January 12, 1951.

A/RES/96 was a response to the conclusion of the Nuremberg International Tribunal on October 1, 1946.

Count Three of the Nuremberg International Tribunal Indictment provides on Dec 11, 1946 the first and at the time the only definition of genocide in international law.

Listed item (A) “MURDER AND ILL-TREATMENT OF CIVILIAN POPULATIONS OF OR IN OCCUPIED TERRITORY AND ON THE HIGH SEAS” uses the term genocide.

Each following listed item elaborates and narrows the definition of genocide by focusing on a specific aspect of genocide. None of the listed items conflict with the definition of genocide in the CPPCG, and each listed item falls within the definition of genocide within the CPPCG.

The listed items of Count Three were used as the definitions of crimes in the RuSHA Subsequent Nuremberg Tribunal (United States of America vs. Ulrich Greifelt, et al, July 7, 1947 – March 10, 1948).

From Nov 30, 1947 – Jul 20, 1949, European Zionist colonial settlers perpetrated the following listed items against the native civilian Palestinian population:

(D) KILLING OF HOSTAGES

(E) PLUNDER OF PUBLIC AND PRIVATE PROPERTY

(F) THE EXACTION OF COLLECTIVE PENALTIES

(G) WANTON DESTRUCTION OF CITIES, TOWNS, AND VILLAGES AND DEVASTATION NOT JUSTIFIED BY MILITARY NECESSITY

(J) GERMANIZATION OF OCCUPIED TERRITORIES.

Germanization in the Nuremberg Tribunal context is replacement genocide in the Palestinian context. Germanization does not become any less a crime or any less genocide by renaming Germanization to Judaization.

After the 1967 War

The evacuated civilian Palestinian population was never permitted to return to its homes, its property, its villages, or its territories from which it was evacuated even after the Zionist state occupied Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the West Bank in 1967. This action seems to provide evidence of dolus indirectus of genocide.

Has the Zionist state been founded by means of genocide in direct violation of customary international law of genocide and in violation of jus cogens? [Question 2]

The genocide against the evacuated civilian Palestinian population, much of which resides in refugee camps in the Palestinian Occupied Territories, will have continued until this population returns to its homes, property, villages, and locations from which it has been evacuated.

Final Questions

After January 12, 1951, the ongoing genocide became a violation of conventional international law of genocide.

Genocide is an international crime (a) whose maximum penalty is death and (b) that has no statute of limitations.

Does the mere existence of the Zionist state negate the international anti-genocide legal regime and undermine international law? [Question 3]

By the principles of jus cogens, is any international agreement void if it leaves the Zionist state intact? [Question 4]

[Krayt]

"Similarly vile", ohhhhh kayyyyyy.

[ReaderY]

Let’s pretend for a moment that the Arab governments’ calls to evacuate before the invasion never happened. And let’s pretend for a moment that populations don’t tend to flee war zones during invasions generally. It’s doubtless true that in at least some instances Israeli soldiers’ actions resulted in Palestinian civilians being taken from their homes. Let’s pretend for a moment that that doesn’t happen, that has never happened, in any other war involving urban combat, Israel was unique. OK then.

In 1940, France’s Vichy regime signed a peace treay with Germany ceding Alsace-Lorraine to Germany.

A new peace treaty formally endong World War II and fixing European borders wasn’t signed until 1990.

In your view, did France’s expulsion of Germans from occupied Alsace-Lorraine prior to the peace treaty - France treated Alsace-Lorraine as if it owned rather than merely.occupied it and treated German citizens as unwanted foreigners - did that constitute genocide? What about Russia and Poland’s much more comprehensive expulsions of Germans from their territories, also occupied teritory absent any formal peace treaty?

And dare I ask about the systematic expulsions of Jews from Arab countries that occurred during and after the 1948 war, expulsions that, unlike the situation in Israel, occurred in the complete absence of any combat?

[wolfefan]

The irony of the second largest owner of Twitter sentencing someone to death for their tweets is duly noted.

[Krayt]

It's the power cancel culture envies, even if it is misused, in some cases.

[Jonathan Affleck]

Elon Musk is the only owner of Twitter.

[SimonP]

Has he acquired the minority stakes of the other equity holders, or are you just talking out of your ass?

When he closed on the take-private transaction, Musk held a controlling stake, but not all, of Twitter. Transfers of equity may have happened since, but we wouldn't have any obligatory public record of those transfers. So unless there's been some announcement, we should assume that things haven't changed. Indeed, for all we know, Musk may have sold down some of his share.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

From the Merger Agreement it appears that, upon the Merger, all the common stock in Twitter Musk (or Twitter) didn't hold was liquidated and converted into a right to receive the Merger Consideration of $54.20/share.

That said, I've seen other contemporary references to the Saudi Prince's stake somehow surviving the merger, but if so it couldn't have been common stock, because there is simply no provision in the Merger Agreement for that to happen that I can see.

[Darth Buckeye]

The Ruling Regime in the US probably envies the Saudis' ability to do this. They are probably are trying to think of ways to emulate the Saudi approach...probably a virtual death sentence - banish the person from social media, revoke their banking and credit accounts, and prohibit them from traveling by air.

[mydisplayname]

The US practice of ghost detention offers an alternative to public execution: by moving and/or rendering detainees, they can be hidden, often for the duration of their perhaps tragically short lives, from red Cross teams and other onlookers in violation of international law (to which the US deems itself not to be subject). "There is a long history of this. It has been done for decades. It's absolutely legal." [Peter Probst (CIA Officer)] "In fact, every aspect of this new universe — including maintenance of covert airlines to fly prisoners from place to place, interrogation rules and the legal justification for holding foreigners without due process afforded most U.S. citizens — has been developed by military or CIA lawyers, vetted by Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel and, depending on the particular issue, approved by White House General Counsel's Office or the president himself." [Dana Priest and Joe Stephens (NBC News), 10-May-2004]

Brings to mind the 24-Feb-2004 speech by Alberto Gonzales before the ABA Standing Committee on Law and National Security, in which Gonzales explained that the then-sitting President makes the final determination whether a citizen is an enemy (combatant, insurrectionist, or otherwise). It's odd how the determinations made by the Bush and Obama administrations never arise in connection with the various "January 6" matters.

[Darth Buckeye]

Never mind. My comment was wrong. Many apologies.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Non-war "POWs" are always going to be problematic. They aren't controlled by a state, so they cannot be returned to a state following its surrender at the end of the war. Nor are soldiers on the battlefield qualified to gather evidence of criminal activities, which would be necessary for any subsequent criminal trials.

That said, the way the US has chosen to deal with these issues is tragic and counterproductive.

[Ben_]

Iran sentences people to death all the time and the Obama Administration was good friends with them. Biden just gave Iran billions of dollars again.

Meanwhile, the Biden Administration is arresting election rivals and torturing political prisoners.

The worst of the Saudis may still more depraved than Biden and Garland and the Democrats, but it’s a close race and the Saudis are slowly getting better while Dems' depravity escalates.