The Volokh Conspiracy
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"Texas A&M Suspended Professor Accused of Criticizing Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick in Lecture"
"The professor, an expert on the opioids crisis, was placed on paid administrative leave and investigated, raising questions about the extent of political interference in higher education, particularly in health-related matters."
So reports the Texas Tribune (Kate McGee & James Barragan); though the leave was lifted after two weeks, this strikes me as quite troubling. (I've reached out to Texas A & M to see if they can provide more of a statement than what is quoted in the Texas Tribune.) Here's FIRE's letter to the Texas A & M Office of the President today (footnotes omitted, moved text indicated with {/}):
FIRE is deeply troubled by The Texas Tribune's report on Texas A&M University's censure and investigation of Clinical Assistant Pharmacy Professor Joy Alonzo for criticizing the Lieutenant Governor. {This letter reflects our understanding of the pertinent facts, based on public information. We appreciate that you may have additional information to offer and invite you to share it with us.} We urge you to take swift, decisive action to ensure the university will meet its First Amendment obligations to respect faculty's core expressive rights.
When citizens criticize public officials, the First Amendment's protection is "at its zenith." Public university faculty also have broad expressive and academic freedom rights to raise those criticisms in their classrooms, which the Supreme Court has held "occupy a special niche in our constitutional tradition," and where "government should be extremely reticent to tread." {Numerous courts—including the Supreme Court and the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, whose decisions are binding on Texas A&M—have recognized the First Amendment's protection of freedom of speech is closely intertwined with academic freedom. See, e.g., Buchanan v. Alexander, 919 F.3d 847, 852-53 (5th Cir. 2019) (academic speech enjoys First Amendment protection even if it occurs pursuant to a professor's official duties.); DeJohn v. Temple Univ., 537 F.3d, 301, 314 (3rd Cir. 2008) ("[F]ree speech is of critical importance [at universities] because it is the lifeblood of academic freedom[.]"); Sweezy v. New Hampshire, 354 U.S. 234, 250 (1957) ("academic freedom [is an area] in which government should be extremely reticent to tread.").}
Texas A&M's punishment of Alonzo to please powerful political forces is a stunning abdication of its constitutional obligations, deeply chilling faculty and student expression on campus. It is of no consequence that the Alonzo investigation ultimately resolved in her favor, as the First Amendment prohibits state actors like Texas A&M from any action that "would chill or silence a person of ordinary firmness from future First Amendment activities[.]" Any adverse action taken in response to protected expression—including investigations by state actors with disciplinary authority—can violate the First Amendment.
An informed citizenry depends on, among other things, public university faculty performing educational duties free from outside influence. When confronted with inevitable pressures to encroach on academic freedom—whether from powerful alumni, donors, or, as here, politicians—institutions like Texas A&M must abide by the constitutional principles that instill trust in our public universities.
Because Texas A&M has violated that trust, and the law, it must publicly renounce its investigation into Alonzo for her protected expression and recommit to protecting faculty's expressive freedoms moving forward. Given the urgent threat to faculty rights, we request a substantive response to this letter no later than close of business on Friday, July 28, confirming the university will do so.
Thanks to Theodore Shulman for the pointer.
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So the freedom lovin’ Republican leadership of Texas doesn’t respect free speech when criticism hits close to home. And Dan Patrick and John Sharp are self-important thin-skinned pussies.
I’m simply shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
I hope she sues them and wins a bazillion dollars.
Oh, and Dan Patrick fucks chickens. Come and get me Danny boy.
Everytime there is a rare but increasingly common instance of a leftwinger getting bitten by the censorship infrastructure they built I find it strange that the Left gets angry but then proceeds use it as rhetorical ammunition AGAINST the efforts to dismantle said infrastructure.
Or, you work very hard to equate things that aren't the same so you can be angry about a double standard that doesn't exist to anyone with sense.
Gaslight0, there IS a double standard here.
Imagine if, three years ago, at the height of the Wuhan Flu, a state immunologist had said that masks were bullshyte, the vaccine makes you more likely to become infected over time*, and that the best approach would be to stress handwashing and cough protocols.
Oh, and perhaps adding that her Blue State's Governor's lockdowns giving a speech like that to medical students.were killing people -- CA, MI, NY, MA, ME -- whatever state and she giving a speech like this to medical students.
Fired is a given -- she'd likely have been arrested if not drawn & quartered.
AND THAT'S WHAT SHE DID!!!! She opposed the official Texas policy toward dealing with the Fentanyl epidemic.
I heard Abbott interviewed on the radio the other day -- their approach is to ARREST, ARREST, ARREST -- to interdict it at the boarder and then arrest anyone in the state with fentanyl. LtG Patrick, the head of the state senate, goes further and insists on outlawing test strips.
Asinine, perhaps, but no more asinine than COVID protocols, and you kinda know what would happen to someone who defied her Governor on that...
*There was a 2021 Danish study indicating this.
So, I was wondering why somebody would ban fentanyl test strips, and looked it up: Their purpose is apparent to to help illegal drug users more safely consume illegal drugs by detecting when they've been spiked with fenanyl.
I other words, they're banned because their purpose is to facilitate crime.
I'm not a big fan of the "worse is better" approach here, but I thought it was worth mentioning why they'd done it.
Ok, so you disagree with the professor as to policy. Fine.
You miss the point that she shouldn’t be punished at the demand of the Lt Governor over a minor policy disagreement.
Bevis, this isn't a minor policy disagreement, and this isn't 2019 anymore...
She openly questioned the Gov/LtG approach to addressing a pandemic -- and fentanyl is killing a whole lot more people than the Wuhan flu ever dreamed of killing.
For right or wrong, the principle was established during COVID that no dissent was permissible. Hence no dissent is permissible.
For right or wrong, the principle was established during COVID that no dissent was permissible.
Ed be Eddin' again.
Then just fuckin’ shoot her Ed. That’s your freedom lovin’ solution to everything you don’t like. Put her down like the mangy rebellious bitch that she is.
Brett, it isn't even that -- it's the belief that people stop for "Stop" signs because there *might be* a police officer behind it, that they don't drive drunk because there *might be* an OUI roadblock ahead.
The approach Texas is taking, right or wrong, is using the fear of death to discourage illegal drug usage -- of all illegal drugs including marijuana (which sometimes *does* contain fentanyl). It's a sound theory that does work -- but is also quite Machiavellian, and which raises ethical issues.
It's entirely possible that a "let them die" approach -- banning both fentanyl test strips and Narcan -- could actually terrify enough people to avoid illegal drugs to have a significantly lower overdose mortality than you would have had if you had legal test strips & Narcan.
This is the same cost/benefit analysis that you have with any vaccine -- all of which will have morbidity and mortality from the vaccine itself.
The same thing happens with hurricane evacuations -- for every 100,000 people you order to evacuate, you will get something like an additional 20 fatalities from auto crashes. (It may be more than that, I forget...)
So Texas is taking a hard line approach to the fentanyl epidemic -- and we lost the ability to dissent in an epidemic with COVID...
Yes, if medical professionals start asking for rules that will safe lives, you’re just so much closer to full-blown communism.
Amos 'whatabout' Arch. A giant in the debate circuit
how is this a ‘whatabout’? What I said could be applied to the OP. In that the usual line of ‘reasoning’ is censorship appearing to be ‘in favor’ of conservatives -> conservatives bad -> conservative efforts to reverse censorship bad
When people in the left censor, that’s bad. When people on the right censor, that’s bad.
It’s really simple. Why can’t you and the other conservatives on here just say that? Yeah I know the leftists on here with their misinformation bullshit can’t do it either. But you not doing it is just as bad as them not doing it. You’re just giving them a shield with which to ignore your criticism of their censorship.
Free speech has no hope of lasting with people like you as its protector.
So you have recorded transcripts of the Texas GOP ordering AandM to can the lecturer? Sounds to me this is more a problem of the heavy hand universities have to silence speech which is generally applauded more by the left. But the usual rhetoric when leftists talk about incidents like this shows that somehow we must support the party that wants even more of this.
Don’t put that load of bullshit in me. I’ve criticized the left so much on speech that the leftists on here hate me and call me MAGA. You’re the one that’s acting exactly like then, criticizing their side while defending yours.
I’ll tell you the same thing I tell them - go find somewhere where someone will sell you a principle and buy one. That appears to be the only way you’ll ever get one.
Okay it looks like they did talk to the lieutenant gov but it doesn't really go into detail about what was said. If he did in fact order her firing that would be stupid of him.
“Less than two hours after the lecture ended, Patrick’s chief of staff had sent Sharp a link to Alonzo’s professional bio.
Shortly after, Sharp sent a text directly to the lieutenant governor: “Joy Alonzo has been placed on administrative leave pending investigation re firing her. shud [sic] be finished by end of week.”
The text message was signed “jsharp.””
But sure, Patrick wasn’t involved.
I have no idea whether Lt. Gov. Patrick was involved.
The important point is that "jsharp" was involved, demonstrating that (not surprisingly) Texas A&M is a shitty institution that should be removed from the Association of American Universities.
Dawn Buckingham was involved; the hayseeds who voted for her will think more highly of her because of this.
Jessica Buckingham was involved; her non-clinger classmates should refuse to sit next to her or speak with her for so long as they must share classrooms with her.
Carry on, clingers. So far as your betters permit.
It has been reported that the daughter's name is Jessica Marrero rather than Jessica Buckingham (which seems unusual, because Dawn Buckingham's husband is identified as Ed Buckingham, but perhaps the daughter is married).
I doubt her classmates would have much difficulty determining who the responsible party is.
Yeah, rev. A&M needs to be like the more liberal bastions of free speech. You know, places like Harvard and Yale and Stanford. Or better yet, Oberlin.
You’re a perpetual clown.
Texas A&M should be what it wants to be, which apparently is a cow-town school catering to drawling white culture war casualties and jumping at the end of a string pulled by bigoted, obsolete right-wing politicians.
It is not unusual for politician's children to enroll under their mother's maiden name.
Most of the censorship, speech codes, conduct codes, research restrictions, viewpoint-driven discrimination, collection of loyalty oaths, mandatory statements of faith, and the like at American universities are imposed by conservatives at conservative-controlled campuses, you bigoted rube.
There was a guest post here a few months ago now that used studies that showed that women and minority college staff were far more likely to face negative consequences for speech than white male and/or conservative staff. Weird that this never made an impression. But conservatives demanding that something be dismantled is not the same as that thing being fixed.
Sure, man. I’m sure that if, all other things being the same, the professor who gave this lecture had simply had a dick then that arrogant prick Patrick would have just waived it off in the spirit of manly banter.
Imbecile.
See? Not only memory-holed, but agressively erased from your reality. Also, this is just an incredibly dumb response to the broader point I was responding to.
Golly gee -- I'm so sad...
A year ago, I would have cared but not now -- pity she wasn't outright fired.
I've had worse happen to me, for less, so fuck her.
Like what???
Don't Ask...
So was the reason you didn’t make up some story to tell us because you realized it would probably be an easily searchable case, or because you’re just not that creative?
Because it's none of your business.
Not one person here, including you, believes you’d have cared about this particular event a year ago. Similarly, everyone here, including you, knows for certain that if UC-anywhere did anything remotely like this to a “conservative” professor you’d be here talking about imminent civil war.
you ask a tough question but I don't think so.
Fentanyl is more of a crisis than Covid ever was.
I think that medical policy is different.
"Oh, and Dan Patrick fucks chickens. Come and get me Danny boy."
LOLOLOLOL! *kisses fingers* Perfection!
I guess it's another reason why you see so many "Don't mess with Texas" signs down there. Seems to apply to actual Texans as well as Yanks. Texas state government seems dead set on proving another adage: "There's never a shortage of assholes".
I lived in Texas for a year. Austin, which is an oasis of education, reason, and modernity in a flat, brown sea of ignorance, superstition, backwardness, and bigotry.
Texas is great if you are white, are rich, don't mind heat or bigots, and don't give a shit about anyone else.
This article and the original both dance strongly around what was claimed to have been said. It is only multiple pages down where there are comments stating that she had put blame opiod deaths on Patrick. However, it's notable that neither source actually asked the university what was they found offensive.
First, university lecturers should not be giving political commentary.
Secondly, this seems somewhere between deliberately incomplete and actively deceptive reporting. Either multiple levels of government acted rapidly with extreme action on a completely false rumor that no one can validate or discuss, or we are being lied to.
I'm sorry, but this does not smell right. It's too textbook evil.
She said something and was suspended by a powerful government figure at the request of a different powerful government figure. Is any of that in dispute?
Beyond that I’m not sure how much the specifics change the story. If what she said was particularly stupid or nasty, well, it makes her look awful too but she’s still allowed to say it without government retribution.
Unlike the senior leadership of Texas the people of Texas are generally sincere in being freedom lovin’. I imagine there was quite a bit of negative blowback behind the scenes.
She said something and was suspended by a powerful government figure at the request of a different powerful government figure. Is any of that in dispute?
Neither of those two facts is in dispute. However, the real damning evidence here is the e-mails relating the suspension to the presentation. Texas A&M looks very bad here.
The reason I'm nitpicking is that I've seen from the inside a case summarized as "Professor A attended a Muslim symposium and his supervisor, a fundamentalist Christin, disciplined him".
Both facts were literally true. What the description left out is that the discipline had nothing to do with the symposium. It had to with things like missing dozens of classes without permission, spending money intended for equipment on travel, direct insubordination when told to teach in-person for a class that was listed in the schedule as in-person, etc.
However, in this case, the internal e-mails are (apparently) available and it looks like TAMU screwed up badly.
Only an uninformed dumbass, mostly likely a clinger, would write that.
I’m sorry, but this does not smell right. It’s too textbook evil.
LOL.
The only wiggle room I can see - and I have to say it's a 1% longshot - is that this was triggered by a student complaint, and it could be the student badly misrepresented what was said.
Where I work we'd do an emergency suspension pending investigation if (for example) a student alleged that the prof had made a death threat against Lt. Governor Patrick, or threatened to fail anyone who had voted for him. The other students would get interviewed and when it turns out to be BS the suspension is lifted. Obviously we wouldn't publicly blame the student because that's a FERPA violation.
However, even if that was true, there was no need for the Land Commissioner to get involved even informally. There's really no possible excuse for that.
Reading the Texas Tribune article I think the chances of what you describe are a lot higher. Might even be a likelihood.
The complaining student was the daughter of another Republican state official, who was probably raised in an overly political household. The daughter is a med student at UTMB, where the speech was given. I’d guess the daughter heard fairly routine criticism of Patrick, called her mother (the Texas Land Commissioner) and overdramatized it. Her mother called Patrick with the overstated account and the machine kicked into gear.
Still no excuse for attacking the speech rights of a public employee.
Texas A&M can take action against the instructor.
Texas A&M's decent medical students can take action against the fledgling Federalist Societeer who called her wingnut mom to complain -- for example, by refusing to speak with her, sit next to her, or help her for so long as they are forced to share classrooms with her.
Would I be at all surprised that a leftist medical person would accuse a governor intending to enforce the drug laws of murder -- sadly, no....
1. You don’t know if she a liberal. She criticized Patrick over a policy matter within her specialty. Criticized him so mildly that apparently most of the lecture attendees didn’t even notice.
2. Patrick is not the governor.
Way to be informed.
Now, Bevis. You're expecting way too much of Dr. Ed.
Well, Dr. Ed's better than the Guardian. Their headline said a professor was fired for criticizing the "lieutenant general".
Credit to Ed, closer on the title and doesn’t appear to have created a firing that didn’t happen.
Like the letter made plain: Professors can say anything in their classrooms that any other person on the street is allowed to say. That's a wide spectrum of first amendment protection.
Ben, did you read the Texas Tribune story. They talked to several students at the lecture that were confused because they couldn’t remember her having said anything controversial. Three students said the only mention of Patrick was that he and or his office opposed policies that would make it easier to save people overdosing. Even if it’s overstated, it’s pretty plain vanilla political criticism. Patrick should have just ignored it.
I haven't seen an allegation that Patrick asked for the suspension, or even asked for an investigation. It's not clear he had anything to do with it.
The blame here would seem to be largely with the Land Commissioner Dawn Buckingham, who had no business involving herself, and the TAMU administration for listening to her (assuming that's what they did).
Patrick and his staff (presumably at his request) exchanged several texts with John Sharp, former state elected official and current president of the A&M system. The reporters that broke the story have at least some of the texts.
It is entirely appropriate for university lecturers to give political commentary on matters within their professional expertise. The professor in question is an expert on opioid policy. She was doing her job.
"First, university lecturers should not be giving political commentary."
You are arguibg that an organization that literally teaches political science shouldn't be giving political commentary? Jesus F Christ, even without bringing in educational relevance and academic freedom, that's one of the dumbest and mist authoritarian things I've read here. And BCD comments regularly.
"I’m sorry, but this does not smell right. It’s too textbook evil."
True. And as more details come out, it gets worse and worse.
Does Greg Abbott have an ethics ceiling in his administration? If your ethics are slightly corrupt or cleaner, you need not apply.
It wasn’t even political commentary. She was giving a lecture to a crowd of pre-med students about the state of saving people in the middle of opioid overdoses.
There was a very brief segment where she described two or three techniques that would work but mentioned that you can’t do them in Texas. The Ledge tried to pass them but Patrick killer them.
That’s it.
Ben's comment Ben of Houston 21 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
"This article and the original both dance strongly around what was claimed to have been said."
Ben raises a valid question - What was actually stated by lopez.
If in fact, the Texas Tribune article is accurate, then A&M is absolutely wrong for the suspension / threat of termination.
First point is that it highly unlikely that a professor would get into trouble with the University administration over a very minor statement.
Secondly the texas tribune is very left wing , with a long history of misrepresentations of facts.
Very likely, a multitude of past transgressions/incidents that have occurred.
Bottom line - Dont rush to judgement with incomplete facts
As an ultimate matter, I have doubts that the First Amendment protects what public university professors say in their own classrooms.
Nevertheless, the Fifth Circuit's Buchanan opinion must control in a federal Section 1983 lawsuit.
Something is very odd about this story.
There's a lot of insinuation, but no clear facts on what was said, what reasons are given, and so on.
Until these are clear, I reserve all judgement.
First time for everything!
Including you criticizing censorship. First time for that too.
Check out threads on banning books, or academic freedom, or the anti DEI laws, or the don't say gay bill. Threads you were also on.
I disagree with you about twitter, and that appears to have damaged your memory.
Yup. Sarcastro only criticizes censorship when it's the government being censored. Quite the authoritarian.
As long as you’re criticizing the right. It ain’t the principle, it’s the jersey.
You’ve got a first class seat on the misinformation train, which shows your depth of opinion on speech.
Just telling you the same thing I told Armchair Lawyer. If you can’t criticize your own side for something you have no high ground from which to criticize the other for that something. It’s not principle with you (and apparently him). It’s raw politics.
Truly no offense intended this time, but that’s what is.
First, new goalpost, eh? Disingenuous.
Second, If you want me going after the left on speech, check out my posts on heckler’s veto stuff.
You have an utterly incorrect view of what I post because to you disagreeing with you can only mean I am Armchair Lawyer levels of partisan tool.
Stop with your goalpost horseshit.
The subject is and has always been support for the first amendment and free speech. I do unconditionally all the time. You do if the circumstances fit your politics, otherwise you don’t.
You’re right in this case, but if this were a Democratic Lt Governor you’d be playing the “well, we just don’t know” game that the conservatives are playing. I’ve seen you do it a thousand times.
You said I didn’t defend free speech. I pointed out I did and you pivoted directly to ‘well you only do it against the right.’
That is you, being wrong, and changing the goalpost to keep the argument going. I will not let you get away with it, even if – especially if – it annoys you. Don’t pull that shit.
if this were a Democratic Lt Governor you’d be playing the “well, we just don’t know” game Made up hypocricy is your third goalpost, now. Having had your made up straw-Sarcastro been proven wrong twice, you resort to your imagination, where everything is smooth and good. You’ve been prove wrong twice and now retreat from reality. This is MAGA behavior. I call you out because I think you have the wherewithal to do better than those tools.
The subject is and has always been support for the first amendment and free speech. I do unconditionally all the time. What you do is declare that anyone who doesn’t agree with your take is a partisan tool. That’s not you being the sole consistent person, it’s you deciding you have a monopoly on virtue.
My personal theory of what happened:
1. Whiny student complained about a lecture to Mom, perhaps embellishing a little bit.
2. Mom happens to be a major statewide elected official.
3. Mom calls her friends in the TAMU upper administration, perhaps embellishing further, and demanding action.
4. TAMU administrators getting calls from an elected official panic and decide they have to "do something". A suspension is something.
If so, Mom and the panicky administrators are the culprits here.
Yeah, it looked like rich kid thought the help was getting too uppity, and called Mom to flex.
Pretty sure this is just how they train the next generation elite down there. When I was in school for a few years in Tennessee, rich kids used their brattiness strategically, too.
Read the Tribune article. It’s very well sourced. Including clear facts on what was said.
It’s kinda lame to say you’re waiting for more information when the information is sitting out there waiting to be read.
I’ve read it. Repeatedly. Here is what they say.
“A few hours after Texas A&M started looking into the complaint, course leaders at UTMB sent an email to students in the class saying Alonzo’s comments “about Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick and his role in the opioid crisis” did not represent the opinion of the university.
The email also included a “formal censure” of Alonzo, although it did not specify what she said that was offensive.
Neither UTMB nor Texas A&M would confirm what Alonzo said that prompted such a reaction, and UTMB students interviewed by the Tribune recalled a vague reference to Patrick’s office but nothing specific.”
That is the very opposite of “clear facts on what was said”
Texas A&M and UTMB fucked up and they know it. They’re laying low knowing this will blow over.
The authors quoted three students who relayed what she said, best they could. It was so benign and minor that they really couldn’t remember it well.
You’re not even trying. Next time you criticize - legitimately - the left and their misinformation censorship why should anyone find you credible. It’s not censorship you oppose, it’s censorship by a particular group of people. When Republicans do it there just aren’t enough facts to judge.
What a fuckin’ joke.
If you're going to say there are "clear facts on what was said"...then you should be able to accurately say....what was said.
If you can't....perhaps you should consider something else is going on.
Yeah. On the posts about Biden’s misinformation crusade I thought you were actually an advocate for speech. Ol’ dopey me.
What she said is so benign that hardly anyone there remembered it. Unfortunately, one child of a Republican politician did.
All that’s going on here is a highly politicized description of a description of a policy dispute that was barely even mentioned was turned into a bid deal because a big shot politician got his fee fees hurt.
You really ought to avoid joining future discussions of censorship from the left because your hypocrisy embarrasses you.
Wait a minute. You don’t know what she said. How do you know it was benign?
Sigh....
We'll try this again. You don't actually know what was said. Because it's not reported. You claim it was a "policy dispute." The article hints that is was otherwise, a recounting of an "anecdote and interaction with a public official." The quoted section is below.
"The following day, pharmacy school Dean George Udeani said in a memo to Alonzo that during the lecture she “related an anecdote and an interaction with a state official.” “I understand that your comment did not assign blame. However, some members of the audience felt that your anecdote was offensive,” he wrote."
You don't actually know what was said. In many, many, of these other disputes, what was actually said is revealed. Whether it be a "trap house" or comments about Asian minorities, or comments about a laptop. Here we don't know. They are being very very "coy" about it.
When Alonzo was asked what the comments were, this is her response "In a statement provided by Copelin, the A&M system spokesperson, Alonzo said “her remarks were mischaracterized and taken out of context,” but she did not confirm exactly what the comments were. “She added that she had no issue with how the university handled the situation,” Copelin said"
To repeat...we don't know what the comments were. And both the university and professor here ....aren't telling us...
That sets off my "something hinky here" detector. So, I reserve comment. Neither for, nor against.
All armchair, no lawyer.
Bigoted, ready-for-replacement armchair.
WTF do you think she said that would justify this?
Suppose it was something like "What Dan Patrick did was stupid and resulted in unnecessary deaths."
Why should she be penalized for that?
That’s close. More like “there are certain life saving treatments we could try but we can’t because Lt Gov Patrick blocked their passage’
You can disagree with the statement if you want but it’s a very bland policy statement by a speaker within their field of expertise.
The way everyone is flipping as to their attitude toward speech is very telling.
"WTF do you think she said that would justify this?"
We don't know. And she won't tell us. That should tell you something. If it was so completely innocuous, that there could be no misunderstanding, it's easier for her to just come out and tell us.
But...nothing. So I reserve judgement.
Fortunately, the modern American mainstream doesn't give half a shit about anything guys like Armchair Lawyer say or think. The culture war's winners don't pay much attention to the culture war's roadkill.
Including clear facts on what was said.
Please paste here what was said.
The article says the opposite.
As I noted above, it is highly unlikely the professor was punished for a single minor incident. Very likely some serious transgression occurred, or there has been a history of transgression.
FWIW, the Texas Tribune has a history of misrepresentation.
It's all speculation.
No confirmation of anything.
We have a headline which is too good to be true, and nothing else.
Once the facts are known, and I'm guessing they will be, this story will look entirely different than that headline.
READ THE GODDAMN ARTICLE AT THE TEXAS TRIBUNE!!!
Y’all are doing the same thing that drive you crazy about people on the left. Ignoring the available information while claiming to be open minded just waiting for information.
Red = blue.
I read it.
They explicitly said that it's not reported what the professor was accused of saying.
Nor did they report what any government official did about it.
It's all in the headline, which the text basically disclaims.
No you didn’t you fuckin’ liar. Three people in the audience described what she said. In the article that you read. I posted it below.
And who cares what she says. She could have said “Dan Patrick fucks goats” and it would be protected.
But she didn’t. She described a policy difference. There ain’t no speech more protected than that.
Thanks for your comments tonight btl.
You seem subliterate.
That puts you plainly within the Volokh Conspiracy's target audience.
bevis the lumberjack 21 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
READ THE GODDAMN ARTICLE AT THE TEXAS TRIBUNE!!!
Bevis - I am on record above that very unlikely the Texas Tribune article is factually accurate. The Texas Tribune has a long history of gross misrepresentations.
As Such it is entirely reasonable to wait until the facts become clear.
Ducksalad made a reasonable stab at what could have happened
ducksalad 22 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
My personal theory of what happened:
1. Whiny student complained about a lecture to Mom, perhaps embellishing a little bit.
2. Mom happens to be a major statewide elected official.
3. Mom calls her friends in the TAMU upper administration, perhaps embellishing further, and demanding action.
Made stab was something egregious happened or prior incidents happened that were egregious and this was the final straw.
Both my stab and ducksalads guess at what likely happened are vastly more plausible than the Texas Tribune version of what happened.
Bottom line - The Texas Tribune does not have a good reputation for accurate factual reporting.
Lemee see what the prof said before deciding if it was a grotesque abuse of government power or a civic duty to cancel them. A concerned citizen speaking their mind, or a professor speaking outside their government-authorized area of expertise, inhabited by "us", for various definitions of "us".
A concerned citizen speaking their mind, or a professor speaking outside their government-authorized area of expertise
1. How would you tell one from the other?
2. 'government-authorized area of expertise' sure makes schools seem full of free inquiry and learning!
Her specialty is methods of dealing with opioid overdoses. Her speech was made to a group of medical students on that subject. In the speech she made a brief mention (apparently) regarding a handful of methods that are known to work that aren’t allowed in Texas due to opposition from Patrick and his office. That’s it.
Many of the students didn’t even remember that part of her presentation because it was barely there. Unfortunately, one of the med students was the daughter of the Texas Land Commissioner, who took exception and tattled to her mother (the state official). Seems likely she over politicized it so her mom called Patrick. Patrick spoke with John Sharp, the professor’s ultimate boss, who got out the whoopass.
The statement was square in the middle of her area of expertise. And is probably true, although i guess there’s an argument to be made that Patrick was right to stop the bills. Either way, that’s very, very protected policy opinion.
That’s it. It was caused by a politically zealous daughter exaggerating to her politically zealous mother who is an ally of Patrick. This should be an embarrassment for the political leadership of Texas, assuming they are capable of embarrassment.
Seems likely she over politicized
Seems likely? WTF?
You don't know. I don't know. It's all speculation.
I could speculate that she threatened vile stuff. We'd then be symmetric.
Let's wait and see what really happened.
It also should cause all decent (or even half-decent) students in that class to mock, disdain, shun, and refuse to associate with the fledgling clinger born to Texas' knuckle-dragging, bigoted political elite. Don't speak with her. Don't sit next to her. Don't help her. Don't acknowledge her. If she needs or wants something, let Mommie handle it.
This would be Dan Patrick who as Lt, Guv is presiding over the TX Senate impeachment trial of Ken Paxton, Republican AG so corrupt he managed to get impeached by the Republican TX House. The Dan Patrick who accepted a 3 million (cash and loan) contribution from a group supporting said KenPaxton.
Yeah, way too textbook evil for this bunch. /s
All of y’all claiming to have read the article and complaining that no one knows what was said are simply lying. It’s right there in the article:
According to one student who asked to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation from the school, some students wondered if it was when Alonzo said that the lieutenant governor’s office was one of the reasons it’s hard for drug users to access certain care for opioid addiction or overdoses.
A second student who also asked to remain anonymous for the same reason said Alonzo made a comment that the lieutenant governor’s office had opposed policies that could have prevented opioid-related deaths, and by doing so had allowed people to die.
A third student who also spoke on the condition of anonymity said Alonzo talked about how policies, like the state’s ban on fentanyl test strips, have a direct impact on the ability to prevent opioid overdoses and deaths. A push to legalize the test strips died earlier this year in the Patrick-led Senate despite support from top Republicans, including Abbott.
All of the students interviewed said they felt Alonzo’s comments were accurate and they were not offended by anything in the presentation.
You're claiming that is a report of what she said?
I see the problem.
It’s right there in the article:
Three anonymous students' paraphrased vague recollections.
Yeah, clearly stated. Do yourself a favor and partisan yourself up outta here.
You miss the point that it doesn’t matter what the fuck she said. Fascist.
If that’s the point, then why are you so intent on making bullshit factual claims about what was said? Racist.
You wanna be a stupid argumentative troll, find someone else to do it to. Goodbye.
It would've been easier for you to just not be a liar.
It most certainly DOES matter what she said. If it was extreme enough (which you don’t know either way), it could be a firing offense. You don’t have unfettered free speech if it affects your employer. What planet do you live on?
How do you feel about a professor's repeated use of vile racial slurs in a classroom at a real university (rather than on a bigot-hugging, nonsense-teaching, conservative-controlled campus)? Is that extreme enough for your taste?
Off-topic, regarding Prof. V's interesting parenthetical preceding his first long blockquote above: "(footnotes omitted, moved text indicated with {/})":
I'm not sure how long you've been using this convention, but I first noticed it in a post a few weeks ago, with no explanatory parenthetical (perhaps because you weren't also omitting footnotes? not sure). Curly brackets draw my eye! And I guessed correctly what you were signaling before comparing the linked original's text and footnotes, and then doing enough googling to conclude that yes, this is a thing.
The parenthetical is an improvement, at least until the convention is universally known.
I'm therefore appropriating this convention — including the explanatory parenthetical, although I'd be tempted to use the phrase "text lifted from footnote indicated by {/}" — and I intend to use it hereafter in my own writing without attribution. But in case someone should ask, I'm curious: should I attribute it to you or someone else, Prof. V?
It doesn't matter what was said. The important thing is a young woman was offended. Speech is violence and this woman has obviously been viscously assaulted. Any attempt to defend the lecturer is just further evidence of support for the white male patriarchy - or the adjacent white male patriarchy. Or some such.
The situation would seem to call for a lawsuit. There doesn’t seem to be much value in filling landfills with soon-to-be-discarded letters. State officials here clearly aren’t concerned about what professors think. Or their yapping.
This Theodore Shulman?
I’ll again bring up the potential vulnerabilities. Pickering seems to be something of a Prucrustean bed for professors. It focuses its protection non-work speech and gives employers more leeway to regulate work speech. But it seems pretty hard to maintain that academic speech – classroom lectures and research papers – are outside the scope of academic employment.
I think there is a real problem requiring a balance. On the one hand, professors aren’t simply the university administration’s or government’s hired mouthpieces. On the other hand, students don’t become a professor’s thralls either. I think that a university should be entitled to offer large lecture classes in multiple sections and expect that students in the different sections will be taught and grades similarly, and expect that professors with strong opinions won’t fail students for espousing a different view.
It seems to me that Pickering, and the current constitutional cases and categories for government employee speech more generally, don’t really work for the academic context. At the same time, the seminal academic freedom case, Sweeney v. New Hampshire, places the locus of academic freedom in universities as institutions, i.e. in the administration, and not in faculty members at all.
Sweeney was part of a line of “group rights” first amendment cases that perhaps culminated in Griswold v. Connecticut. The thinking that underlay it was severely undercut if not ended entirely when Eisenstadt v. Baird not only decoupled privacy from any first amendment connection, but also said that 14th Amendment rights are individual rughts, not the rights of institutions as institutions. Just as what had been regarded as the rights of a marriage as an institution became individual rights regardless of any institution, free speech rights may well be individual rights with institutional considerations irrelevant.
But the basic problem of transforming rights traditionally associated with institutions into purely individual rights wholly independent of institutions, as the change in thinking from Griswold to Eisenstadt exemplifies, is that people who assert they have rights because they are members of institutions lose. Lots of institutions have lost as a result of this transformation. Marriage lost. Journalists lost. Why shouldn’t the same logic result in academics losing? If rights stem solely from individuality and institutions have nothing to do with it, why should a professor have any more right to speak freely and offer their own personal opinion on anything qua professor than the janitor or the governor’s PR rep?
As CS Lewis put it, “they castrate, and bid the geldings be fruitful.” Academic thought has led to the constitutional irrelevance of numerous institutions previously thought constitutionally relevant, indeed vital. Why shouldn’t academia be among them?
It seems to me that for academic freedom as such to be a constitutional right, for professors to have a right to be treated differently from any other government employee paid to produce soeech, there needs to be a legal conceptual framework that gives certain traditional institutions and their members special respect. Sweeney was decided within that framework. So was Griswold. The framework, however, has since been largely punctured, indeed repudiated. The very concept of academic freedom is, accordingly, something of a relic of the past so far as the current legal mindset is concerned. Church autonomy survives, based on the separate Religion Clauses. But there is no separate clause to protect academic freedom any more than marriage autonomy or journalistic institutional freedom. With no recognized special mediating institutions, there are only atomized, isolated individuals and an absolute state.
I believe the case that is the most relevant here is Garcetti, not Pickering. In Garcetti, the Supreme Court held that, generally, speech made by a public employee pursuant to the employee's job duties could not be protected by the First Amendment, period. So, in such cases, there is no need to get into Connick and Pickering tests/requirements: was the speech on a matter of public concern and if so, did the employee's right to speak as a citizen outweigh disruption to the employer? Speech made pursuant to job duties could not be protected by the First Am.
Garcetti, however, left open the question of whether its general rule should apply to a public university professor's speech (in the classroom or in publications). While lower courts have split on this, the current majority view in federal courts of appeals is that the Garcetti rule does not. Note, this doesn't mean that any old thing a prof. says in the classroom is protected by the First Am.: such speech would still have to satisfy the requirements in Connick and Pickering. But it's not *automatically* excluded from First Am. protection.
IMHO, reasonable minds can differ over whether academic speech should be an exception to the general Garcetti rule. Heck, reasonable minds can differ as to whether the general Garcetti rule is a good one. But I think this is relevant to your inquiry.
I think the reasononing, not the case one chooses to cite for it, is what matters here. Substituting Garcetti for Pickering changes nothjng.
Academics do not argue that they should have more protection than ordinary citizens because they are speaking as citizens. Rather, their argument is the exact opposite. They argue they are speaking specifically as academics, a traditional institutional status and role that society has traditionally regarded as special. In their viewit is their special job, not the fact that they are citizens like everybody else, that creates academic freedom.
That’s the problem. It seems rather rediculous to try to claim that classroom lectures and academic research are purely “as citizen” speech outside the scope of academic employment. What exactly are academics paid to do if not research and teaching? Of course it’s employment-related speech!
Indeed, the whole POINT of the academic freedom argument is that it’s employment-related speech. Academics have a special job, the argument goes, and this entitles them to special, JOB-RELATED protection.
So it seems to me that under any fair, neutral application of Garcetti or Pickering, academics lose. Research and teaching are job-related speech, plain and simple. So as with any other job, their employer, like any other employer, largely gets to decide what the content of that speech should be. And academics who don’t like it, like any other employee who doesn’t like it, need to look elsewhere for employment.
The very idea of academic freedom stems from a more general traditional concept of special institutions and special roles. It’s an older concept that has largely been discarded. As I’ve pointed out over the years, Professor Volokh has regularly cheered on the discarding process. Married people shouldn’t have special rights over unmarried people; professional journalists sbould get no more protection than anyone who holds up a signpost, doctors are just businesspeople, etc. The idea that being a member of a special traditional institution entitles one to any sort of special protection is now largely seen as rediculous.
So why should academics be treated any differently? Why shouldn’t their claims to special institutional protection be discarded like others have been? Why shouldn’t it be the individual as individual, whether connected to an institution or not, who solely possesses whatever free speech rights there are?
Academics at state universities are paid to speak and write. That’s their job. Same as the governor’s press secretary. Absent a “traditional institution” argument of the sort long rejected and discarded in other contexts, why should one have any more first amendment right than the other to say what they want to say rather than what the governor wants them to say? Garcetti, fairly applied, tends to suggest they don’t.
Just groping here, but is there an agency argument here?
The press secretary is an agent of the governor. His job is not just to speak and write, but to do so in the interests of the governor. More broadly, most employees of businesses also have the job of advancing their employers' interests.
But that is not the job of the university professor, who is not an agent of the governor. The professor's job does not imply any obligation whatsoever to advance the governor's interests,or endorse the governor's opinions.
But that could be resolved simply by changing the job description. The legislature could simply pass a law, or the governor sign an executive order, saying that from here on, now the job is different.
The duties of ordinary jobs are whatever the employer says they are and can find people willing to do. If a job description limits the employer’s discretion, the employer can simply change the discription to remove the limitation. The ability to do that is in practice limited by many things, by existing contracts, what the market will bear, etc. But it’s not limited by anything in the constitution.
In the 19th century, employers broke guilds of handloom weavers who insisted that their status in society as artists entitled them to autonomy and self-expression. They just changed the job description and said take it or go elsewhere. The constitution said nothing about it. What makes university professors constitutionally different from handloom weavers? I don’t think Garcetti provides a sufficient reason.
There are two responses to your argument. First, Garcetti is a bad rule in general. I have some sympathy with that argument, but that’s not the issue here.
Second, assuming Garcetti should be the general rule (or acknowledging that it is), there *are* some reasons why academics should be treated differently: notably, the long tradition of academic freedom. That’s why the Supreme Court left the issue open in Garcetti.
More specifically, here’s what the Sixth Circuit said a couple of years ago on the topic in Merriwether v. Hartop. Forgive the long quote, but I think it does deal with the issue nicely. I stress that I believe that reasonable minds can differ on this issue, but the justification in the quoted material below seems persuasive to me.
———- [The Supreme Court]It characterized academic freedom as “a special concern of the First Amendment” and said that the First Amendment “does not tolerate laws that cast a pall of orthodoxy over the classroom.” After all, the classroom is “peculiarly the ‘marketplace of ideas.’ ” And when the state stifles a professor’s viewpoint on a matter of public import, much more than the professor’s rights are at stake. Our nation’s future “depends upon leaders trained through wide exposure to [the] robust exchange of ideas”—not through the “authoritative” compulsion of orthodox speech. . . .
As a result, our court has rejected as “totally unpersuasive” “the argument that teachers have no First Amendment rights when teaching, or that the government can censor teacher speech without restriction.” And we have recognized that “a professor’s rights to academic freedom and freedom of expression are paramount in the academic setting.” Simply put, professors at public universities retain First Amendment protections at least when engaged in core academic functions, such as teaching and scholarship.
In reaffirming this conclusion, we join three of our sister circuits: the Fourth, Fifth, and Ninth. In Adams v. Trustees of the University of North Carolina–Wilmington, the Fourth Circuit held . . . that the rule announced in Garcetti does not apply “in the academic context of a public university.” The Fifth Circuit has also held that the speech of public university professors is constitutionally protected, reasoning that “academic freedom is a special concern of the First Amendment.” Buchanan v. Alexander, 919 F.3d 847, 852–53 (5th Cir. 2019). Likewise, the Ninth Circuit has recognized that “if applied to teaching and academic writing, Garcetti would directly conflict with the important First Amendment values previously articulated by the Supreme Court.” Demers v. Austin, 746 F.3d 402, 411 (9th Cir. 2014). Thus, it held that “Garcetti does not—indeed, consistent with the First Amendment, cannot—apply to teaching and academic writing that are performed ‘pursuant to the official duties’ of a teacher and professor.”
One final point worth considering: If professors lacked free-speech protections when teaching, a university would wield alarming power to compel ideological conformity. A university president could require a pacifist to declare that war is just, a civil rights icon to condemn the Freedom Riders, a believer to deny the existence of God, or a Soviet émigré to address his students as “comrades.” That cannot be. . . And when the state stifles a professor’s viewpoint on a matter of public import, much more than the professor’s rights are at stake. Our nation’s future “depends upon leaders trained through wide exposure to [the] robust exchange of ideas”—not through the “authoritative” compulsion of orthodox speech.
The professor was responsible for telling a room full of 1st year med students that the elected Texas Lt Governor is responsible for drug overdose deaths. What is the line between being responsible to your employer and free speech?
Are you intentionally asking that question at a blog operated by a professor who habitually launches plenty of vile racial slurs, some in and some out of the classroom?
Well, the legal line under Pickering is one of those great con law balancing tests where judges are directed to weigh two entirely different things, neither one of which is subject to numerical value:
the value of speech for a citizen commenting on a matter of public interest vs. disruption to the employer. So, you know, go nuts with that.
Anyone care to guess why Dawn Buckingham didn't send her daughter to National American University?
Clingers gonna cling.