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"Textualism's Political Morality" by the Honorable Neomi Rao
Judge Rao's 2022 Canary lecture has now been published in the Case Western Reserve Law Review.
In March 2022, the Honorable Neomi Rao of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit delivered the Sumner Canary Memorial Lecture on "Textualism's Political Morality." The Case Western Reserve Law Review has published her lecture. It is available for download here.
The lecture begins:
My lecture is about textualism's political morality. Let me begin with a parable, courtesy of David Foster Wallace:
There are these two young fish swimming along, and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says, "Morning, boys. How's the water?"
And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes, "What the hell is water?"
Today I'd like to talk about the "water" that textualists, perhaps unconsciously, swim in.
Specifically, my lecture will explore the political morality that undergirds and informs a textualist approach to statutory interpretation. I will endeavor to explain why formal approaches to legal interpretation, such as textualism, are an outgrowth of political morality and how they carry political morality into practice.
This way of thinking about textualism may seem surprising. After all, textualism is a kind of formalism, and it generally draws a sharp line between the law's objective meaning and the judge's moral preferences. Textualists hold fast to the principle that the law is the words enacted by the people's democratically elected representatives. It follows that in deciding individual cases, judges must give effect to the law as it is, not as they believe it should be. This textualist approach is often juxtaposed with methods of interpretation that rely on the judge's abstract normative values about justice or fairness or that seek to update statutes in accordance with evolving social or political norms. I am wholeheartedly on the textualist side of these debates.
But the familiar defense of textualism sells it short. This lecture aims to identify the rich moral foundations of a text-based approach to interpreting statutes.
I want to make two basic points. First, I want to defend textualism from the vantage point of political morality. Properly understood, textualism follows naturally from the moral commitments at the heart of our constitutional system of government.
Understanding textualism from this perspective is especially timely in light of recent criticisms of formal, text-based methods of interpretation. For instance, a wave of post-liberal scholars, such as Adrian Vermeule, have suggested that laws should be interpreted to promote the "common good." They claim textualism is inadequate because it is indifferent to this common good. But this isn't really a new criticism. Rather, it merely reflects the familiar view that judges should give effect to certain substantive values, values that exist independently of the law. There are many variants of this view, but to name just a few: Ronald Dworkin argued that judges should act as philosophers, promoting justice understood in an abstract way; William Eskridge has argued that statutes must be interpreted dynamically, in light of contemporary social and moral norms; and Judge Posner maintained that judges must interpret statutes pragmatically, to promote efficient outcomes.
In short, although the critics of textualism past and present disagree about the right yardstick, they all argue that judges should interpret statutes in light of principles found outside the law. They maintain that such principles will lead to "better" results than simply following the text.
But textualism isn't empty of moral content, as some of its critics would suggest. Rather, textualism is rooted in a distinctive moral commitment—a commitment to be governed by positive laws, namely the Constitution and statutes lawfully enacted by the people's representatives. We live under the rule of law, not the rule of men. The Constitution is the result of a reasoned moral choice that a society governed by law is best for social flourishing and is therefore worth defending.
My second point is that statutes are enacted within a legal tradition that subsumes political morality. Our mature and sophisticated legal tradition is built on principles of natural law, common law, and concepts rooted in the Roman law. In determining the meaning of a statute, textualists may rightly turn to these legal sources for guidance. Interpreting statutes within our legal context is part of exercising the Article III "judicial Power."
Seen this way, textualists aren't indifferent to political morality in interpretation; they simply recognize that our legal tradition has translated and disciplined principles of political morality into postulates of law. A faithful textualist, therefore, must grapple not only with the words on the page, but also with the meaning of those words in the context of our legal traditions.
Those are my two basic points: fidelity to positive law is a profound moral choice, one that Americans made when ratifying the Constitution. And textualism, properly understood, incorporates fundamental principles drawn from our legal customs and foundations.
The full lecture is available here.
Video and published versions of other Sumner Canary lectures are available here.
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Ugh.
The most important attribute in a judge is humility (well, Judges Posner and Easterbrook might disagree with that). This is nothing more than rehashing the same debates people have had for centuries, and adding nothing new- except to falsely claim a superior morality for one's own position.
This says absolutely nothing about jurisprudence, but quite a bit about Judge Neomi Rao.
Agreed. Vapid and incoherent. Can be handled simply:
A "moral commitment" to the "rule of law, and not by men" does not point in any particular direction, when it comes to the question of whether judges should be "textualists."
And:
A "textualism" whose moral authority is putatively based in a quasi-contractual agreement by a polity to be governed by a body of positive law, as enacted by their duly elected representatives, is at odds with an interpretive method that freely draws on sources of judge-made law and antiquity. If the text of a law doesn't actually tell us to draw on those other sources, how are we honoring the assumed moral commitment of its authors by imputing to them that intention?
Rao may be smarter than some of the Trump appointees sitting in Texas. But she's still rather dim.
Textualism! The Legal Word of the Year for 2023.
Previously everyone was bonkers over Originalism (and foolishly thinking there was only one type of Originalism):
Framework Originalism
Intrinsicist Originalism
Instrumental Originalism
Liquidated Originalism
Original Intent
Original Meaning
Original Methods Originalism
Original Public Meaning
Semantic Originalism
Structuralism
"Halfway Originalism"
And since Originalism got messy, now we're focusing on Textualism.
"Textualists argue courts should read the words of a statutory text as any ordinary Member of Congress would have read them. They look for the meaning 'that a reasonable person would gather from the text of the law, placed alongside the remainder of the corpus juris [the body of law].'"
So . . . does Textualism mean to interpret as a 'reasonable person' from 1810 would?
Or as a 'reasonable person' from 2023 would?
Originalism is the proposition that the meaning of the Constitution doesn't change except by amendment.
Textualism refers to the method of determining what the words in statutes or the Constitution mean.
Any questions?
Originalism is the proposition that the meaning of the Constitution doesn’t change except by amendment.
You want to break it to Baude he's not an originalist?
People have already let him know.
Scholarship bedamned because it doesn't agree with your hot takes?
"You want to break it to Baude he’s not an originalist?"
I'm not up to speed on this. You're saying that Baude thinks the meaning of the Constitution (as opposed to the facts to which it is applied) does and should change over time without amendment?
His positive turn looks at original meaning as understood by the contemporary legal community.
They understood and expected that the primary method of judicial review would be precedent incrementally building on itself, not going back to the Constitution. The associated inevitable drift is intended.
So long as there are no breaks in that chain (he thinks the Warren Court constitutes a break) this change without amendment is the judicial power functioning as originally intended.
This reminds me of the "whole word" v "phonics" battle. After "whole word" monopoly in the "expert" bits of academia and teacher training began to crack, the whole-wordists constructed a Potemkin creature called "synthetic phonics" which they said was another kind of phonics, to be distinguished from the rigid, old fashioned "analytic phonics."
Of course "analytic phonics" was actual phonics - teaching children (or anyone else who was learning to read) how to recognise phonemes. "Synthetic phonics" was a "blended" approach which was basically whole word with a teaspoonful of actual phonics sprinkled on the syllabus to fool the punters.
They wanted a version of "phonics" to satisfy alarmed parents who had begun to see through the compete manure of whole wordism, but they (a) didn't want to admit that the rigid old fashioned folk had been right all along and (b) they didn't want to retrain tens of thousands of teachers who had no idea how to teach phonics.
And so it is with "originalism".
Originalism - after a couple of false starts - has settled into a straightforward subrule of textualism, as ML described. You take the original meaning of the text and you don't change it as time goes by and usage changes.
Other current versions of "originalism" are Potemkin versions offered by folk who hate the notion of being bound by constricting text.
"His positive turn looks at original meaning as understood by the contemporary legal community"
Magnificent circumlocution. "his positive turn looks at" is archetypal Sarcastro - no precision missile homing in on a specific propositional target there, it's more like shelling a hillside.
Originalism is not a subrule of textualism - it addresses what you do when the text is ambiguous. It encompasses the hard question that textualism does not.
Magnificent circumlocution. “his positive turn looks at” is archetypal Sarcastro – no precision missile homing in on a specific propositional target there, it’s more like shelling a hillside.
What exactly is your issue with what I wrote?
You want to believe the 1980s political project version of originalism is legit, and have trouble when research to back up it's claims comes back finding it doesn't hold together.
Originalism is not a subrule of textualism – it addresses what you do when the text is ambiguous. It encompasses the hard question that textualism does not.
I cannot comment on Potemkin Originalisms, but as to actual “original meaning of the text” Originalism, it is, precisely, a sub rule of textualism.
It addresses what you do if there should be any difference between the meaning of the text in 1935, when the legal provision was promulgated, and the 1944, 1957, 1960, 1982, 1989, 2004 and 2023 meanings, when actual cases come to court.
The sub rule is “you can ignore any usage changes after 1935. Only the original meaning counts.”
This is the other falsehood of originalism, that all text in the constitution and laws are completely unambiguous if only interpreted through sufficiently originalist eyes.
A grievous fault indeed in your straw man originalism.
But if you had been reading the conversation you would have spotted that no one, and certainly not I, contends that the text is always unambiguous. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. And you have to cope with that by appealing to various sub rules, such as the canons of construction.
And one of the sub rules is that, to the extent that the ambiguity in the text relates to a change in usage between promulgation and court case, take the former. If the ambiguity does not relate to that, the original meaning rule will not help you.
You assume that the exact meaning of the "usage" at promulgation is identifiable, and that agreement existed at the time about the exact meaning. But an alternative is that ambiguous language was drafted intentionally, either because the ambiguous language was papering over disagreements between parties, or because the framers never intended the language to limit future interpretation to their particular usage, or both.
I am glad you do not take the position that originalism can make all ambiguous text unambiguous. I do not think all originalists share that opinion, but if I am wrong, I apologize for the straw man.
No, as I made tediously clear, I don’t assume that.
I simply claimed that to the extent that any ambiguity arises from changing usage, originalism nukes it.
Obviously if there’s no evidence that original usage was different from current usage then originalism hasn’t moved you any nearer.
These are all “omg originalism is not a magic cure for all ills, it’s totally useless !” complaints.
No it’s not a cure for all ills and nobody says it is. It’s a cure for some kind of ills, and for those ills it works just fine.
https://www.podparadise.com/Podcast/1562902209/Listen/162506910
In Episode 5 of Deep Dive, Will and Adam tease out positive law originalism further by discussing "original law originalism." They discuss the difference between original intent and original meaning, how scholars might use methods of change, and how originalism handles the Reconstruction Amendments.
Textualism mean to interpret as a ‘reasonable person’ from whatever year the constitution, amendment, statute or regulation was adopted/enacted/passed.
A text mentioning "toilet" in say 1800 meant a woman's morning dressing routine. In 2023, that word means something very different.
The Founders were, if anything, more elitist than any other American era.
The Constitution is a political and legal document.
Who constitutes the reasonable person in your paradigm?
The law uses "reasonable person" [originally "man"] in many contexts. There is even a wikipedia entry on it, maybe you can educate yourself.
Ignoring the ambiguity in the various ways the law deploys the reasonable person standard, I provided an argument above that that's not a great test to use here. You came back with irrelevancies about it being used elsewhere.
"I provided an argument"
Is that what that was?
Textualism is the only legitimate test to use.
Your definition of textualism is ambiguous and seems wrong, based on what I pointed out above about the nature of the Constitution.
You said the Constitution is a political and legal document. Which is true. It is also true that any statute is a political and legal document. The statute crystallises into text the legislature's political view of what ought to be included in law. So far, so banal.
The question then is what should courts do with these "political and legal documents" and the answer, as Bob said, is to apply the legal contents, which are set out in the text.
If the judge feels that the text doesn't quite capture the true political aspiration that motivated the flawed text, he should swallow hard and do his job. Which is to apply the text.
And the reason why the judge should ignore his inner musings, about what he feels is the true political inspiration, is that he should have sufficient humility to recognise that there may be upwards of 100 million other people with their own inner musings and that his inner musings are, legally, worth exactly the same as the inner musings of everybody else. ie squat.
In short, if you lack that humility, you should never be allowed near the judicial bench. Or at least no nearer than defendants usually sit.
The only special complication with the Constitution as opposed to a regular statute, is that the Constitution is a relatively short document which in places provides less detail than a regular statute, and so is, in places, somewhat vague. To resolve vague text, appeals to something else beyond the text may be required. But that does not mean that you can go outside the text. It means that you have to select a particular answer from what remains after you have whittled away as much as you can, as well as you can, from the possible scope of the vague text. This is no different from interpreting a statute with vague text - it just happens more frequently with the Constitution.
I should add that this whittling away of the scope of vague text is exactly the place where precedent is important and valuable. It fills in the details.
Applying obviously wrong, atextual, precedents, simply because some hack or some doofus landed on that answer a while back is exactly why precedent falls into disrepute.
Bob said: "Textualism mean to interpret as a ‘reasonable person’ from whatever year the constitution, amendment, statute or regulation was adopted/enacted/passed."
That is not like what you said.
In short, if you lack that humility, you should never be allowed near the judicial bench. Or at least no nearer than defendants usually sit.
I’d argue a judge that replaces their own take on what the text totally says rather than the precedents of all the previous judges and Justices before them is also lacking in humility.
Constitutional interpretation is a legal endeavor. Insisting on there being only one legitimate approach is remarkably lacking in humility. Fine to argue you have the *best* approach - I do that above myself - but you go well beyond that all who do not follow what you believe are full of pride and do not belong in their job. A job you do not have. That’s some biblical-level pride, right there.
I'm assuming that just run of the mill sarcasuistry - ie you don't really believe what you're saying. If you do, cripes.
But just in case. It's JUDGES who ought to have the humility to keep their own value judgements out of their judging job.
Politicians, legislators, constitution writers, who enact the law, or Joe Citizens who have views on what the law should be are not supposed to keep their values out of their law drafting, or their internet comments. They're fully entitled to marinate the law, or their internet comments, with their personal views and values. Including writing laws or making internet comments about how the law should be interpreted.
The law contains values - they're put there in the text by the legislators. Writing laws is a different job from being a judge. The judge's job is to keep his values out of his judgements. That's why we have judges in the first place, otherwise we'd just go straight to the town square lynching.
I've never talked about value judgements, I've talked about doctrine and methods of interpretation. You've added value judgements to the methods you don't like, and assumed it is not present in those methods you do not.
Going on and on about how values don't belong in jurisprudence is cool and all (if naïve as hell), but you didn't do the work to connect that with text over all else.
Did you see my points about the huge amounts of ambiguity within textualism? What do you think guides the choices on how to resolve that ambiguity. It's either one of those doctrines you believe impure, or it's just pure values no chaser.
There is no evidence or logic offered, you assume it all. You axiomatically favor textualism as the best and declare any judge who doesn't follow your way needs some lessons in humility. I liked it better when you were just arguing (wrongly) about the lack of ambiguity - at least there was logic there.
And yes, values are part of our judiciary; always have been, working as intended. As a society we have never wanted judge-bots. And yet in your striving to declare the One True Method, that is where you end up.
You’ve added value judgements to the methods you don’t like
I apologise if you feel I missed a step, i imagined it was obvious. If your "interpretative method" allows the judge more or less unlimited discretion - as does your favored Breyer method of a large number of variables whose weight in any case is determined solely by the judge's discretion, then the judge's values rule. The only way to get the judge's values from deciding the case is to constrain the judge's discretion brutally.
Which brings us to textualism. The text is a serious constraint on the judge's discretion, because it is made plain to the world what measuring stick the judge is supposed to be using. It's there in black and white. Because we can all read the text and see whether the judge is inside it or outside it.
As I have already said, the text does not always provide a complete constraint. It can be vague or ambiguous. You keep yapping about the "huge amounts" of ambiguity in textualism, and yes I have noticed you doing so. But I entirely reject the ridiculous notion that there is anything like the same freedom from constraint for a judge who considers himself bound by the text, as a judge who does not.
One way to make the text more constraining is to specify rules to follow in cases of vagueness or ambiguity. Reducing the judge's discretion as to which rule to pick. One such rule is to use the original meaning of the text in preference to the meaning that the text might have had at some other time.
There's no difficulty, in principle, in constraining the judge still further by specifying in an interpretation statute which canon of construction applies and when, ahead of which others.
It's not in dispute that the text may not give a single clear answer. We can make it clearer by writing fewer sloppy laws and specifying rules for what to do when the text fails to offer a single answer.
But the main problem in practice is not that the judges are all of a flutter because they have several possible textual meanings and they can't decide which is right. The main problem is that we have lots of judges using the Breyer system of pulling answers from their rear ends - including answers which are not among the possible answers in the text - and then retrofitting their answers to the whatever combination of weighted factors as arrives at the answer they decided on up front.
Which was determined by their values.
We're back to claims of determinism in textualism. Text doesn't constrain much of anything given how the Constitution is written. What is the judicial power? The executive power? What is the scope of the 9A? What is a reasonable search?
Just about all the live questions are about ambiguities in the text. We went over this 2 days ago, before you moved the thesis from predictability to being value-neutral.
I entirely reject the ridiculous notion that there is anything like the same freedom from constraint for a judge who considers himself bound by the text, as a judge who does not.
This is you refusing to show your work. Because you can't show it; it is wrong, there is no more constraint in textualism than any other doctrine.
You don't get that high-ground of arguing for the only legitimate doctrine without doing what is in my opinion an impossible task of comparing constraint levels. No matter how much you want it and how much you insult me for pointing out the increasing numbers of unexamined assumptions you're making, that's not addressing the load-bearing assumptions you are making.
The main problem is that we have lots of judges using the Breyer system of pulling answers from their rear ends
You have admitted that's not what Breyer is doing, and yet now you run back to this facile bullshit. Breyer's active liberty, right or wrong, is a legit constraint on judging. I guess when your own thesis is in shambles you gotta fall back to bad takes on the other theories.
Here’s an obvious example :
“A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
There are ambiguities or vaguenesses in there. What does “infringed” mean ? Is a toe, briefly placed on the fringe quite enough to make an infringement ?
The phrase “the right to keep and bear Arms” leaves in question whether this means a general hypothetical unrestricted right or is a reference to the particular right that was then understood to have a particular scope. eg if the right to bear Arms that existed at the time was the right to bear Arms, except in church or school, “the right to keep and bear Arms” could mean that particular restricted right, rather than a hypothetical general and unrestricted right to keep and bear Arms anywhere and anyhow. The text does not clearly distinguish between these possiblities.
However, could the text also mean that the right to keep and bear Arms is restricted to a right only to keep and bear Arms for the purpose of use in a Militia ?
No, that is not grammatically a possible meaning of the text. There’s no conditional in the second bit relating the scope of the right to the first bit. To get that conditional meaning you would have to change the text. But you can arrive at that interpretation by Breyering, or by other variants of purposivism. You can report finding an interpretation that is outside the text. And of course all the possible textual meanings are still open to you.
That is what I mean when I say that Breyering etc gives the judge much wider discretion that textualism. The Breyerist judge gets to choose from all the textual meanings (if there’s more than one) plus all the weighted purpose meanings. Kagan is very good at textualism when she finds that theres a good textualist argument for her position. You don’t surrender an appeal to text when you’re a purposivist. It’s still in the kit bag. But the textualist judge doesn’t get the extra smorgasbord of choices, based on imagined purposes and discretionary weights.
And that is why the weighted purpose method of “interpretation” is the same as pulling the interpretation out of your rear end. Because you are not constrained by anything. What are the purposes that you need to weight ? They’re not in the text, they’re in your head. And what about the weights ? They’re not in the text either, they’re in your head too. And what do you use to adjust the weights from case to case ? Why, that’s in your head too.
You have admitted that’s not what Breyer is doing
You have obviously misunderstood. I can do no more than repeat myself. If your interpretative method is to pull purposes from the air, at your discretion, and then to weight them, at your discretion, and to change the weights from case to case, at your discretion, your discretion is an Absolute Monarch. This is not law, but untrammelled judicial license.
In short, it’s plucking the decision from your rear end, and retrofitting a line of reasoning from your self selected purposes and self selected weightings.
"Our mature and sophisticated legal tradition is built on principles of natural law, common law, and concepts rooted in the Roman law. In determining the meaning of a statute, textualists may rightly turn to these legal sources for guidance."
OK, if that's textualism, let me order an extra helping.
I hate to keep defending Vermeule (federal supremacist, fan of the administrative state), but I'm not quite sure where, in practice, Rao's remark differs from the bottom-line conclusion Vermeule advocated in his book.
Has anyone seen Margrave and Vermeule together in the same room?
I'm Vermeule, cleverly covering my tracks by criticizing my own views on federal supremacy and the administrative state?
Seriously, Vermeule’s just the package-delivery guy who brought the public the classical legal tradition they’d misplaced. He’s not an oracle on the modern application of these principles.
I kid. And I wouldn't know, I haven't read the book, but most accounts seem to put it at odds with what Rao says here.
His bottom line is in many ways similar to Rao's, though I doubt Rao got there by the exact same route.
Vermeule invokes the sources Rao mentions, and no more than she does would he consider these sources outside the law.
If I had to (perhaps simplistically) sum up Vermeule's thesis, it's that the makers of positive law are not supposed to just make up stuff up as they go along, but to make specific provision for enforcing the natural law and law of nations. The common good is of course the objective.
The role of judges depends on the regime, but where there's ambiguity in the law, the judges are supposed to go back to the principles undergirding the positive law - the same principles which were supposed to guide the lawmaker in the first place.
And these underlying principles have a *lot* to do with "principles of natural law, common law, and concepts rooted in the Roman law," which to Vermeule are interrelated.
It is clever and sounds nice. The "common good" framing is quite provocative, though. It seems like one of those things that is clever enough to slip back and forth on either side of the fence as needed, like a bag of Jello. Which is also why it probably generates a lot of good discussion. I would want to consider a few concrete examples of the theory being applied to cases and how it differs from others.
I think it's broad because it used to be the prevailing theory, opening the door to different interpretations, since there were just so durn many of them. Then Austin, Holmes and their ilk came on the scene with their legal positivism.
It's been a while since I looked this one up, but there's Dr. Bonham's case, where Parliament's law was interpreted consistently with the idea that no man could be judge in his own cause - with the suggestion that if Parliament dared to make a statute which violated that principle, the statute would have been void.
Modern example:
"In United States v. Tabor, the Navy-Marine Corps Court of Criminal Appeals grappled with the question of whether a law prohibiting sexual abuse of a child applied to a case where the victim was asleep and where the defendant was communicating with the child’s mother by telephone.
"Judge John Stephens wrote a concurring opinion critiquing the majority’s textualist approach and urged a common good constitutionalism approach instead.
"The job of the classical lawyer, Stephens argued, was to determine the common good desired by a statute and to interpret the statute in a manner achieving that common good. In the context of the sexual abuse statute, Stephens started with the “unwritten law” that “sexualizing children is always wrong” and moved on from there.
"In doing so, Stephens laments the “re-casting of sexual mores,” and claims that consent has transformed “nearly every type of private sexual activity into a licit act.”"
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/common-good-constitutionalism-could-influence-judicial-practice
That case is only 10 years old and Stephen’s is already being proven wrong.
For a non-trivial portion of the population, sexualizing children isn’t always wrong anymore, but has even turned into a right asserted by some adults.
It may not be "new" or groundbreaking, but this is right. And, it seems, it needs to be eternally repeated.
Yes. It’s a strawman to suggest that there are so many flavors of textualism (or originalism) that such a thing is unknowable, and it’s just judges imposing their preferences. I have no use for "common good" constitutionalism, because that is just another flavor of Living Constitutionalism but according to a different set of principles beyond the law.
The best example, aligned with fidelity to positive law, is the death penalty. As the Constitution, as amended, recognizes capital punishment, it is without question that it is constitutional.
Can it be administered in an unconstitutional manner? Of course. But if you’re a judge who continues to find any reason to set aside any death sentence, or declare it unconstitutional, my post may be directed at you.
There’s no legitimate Living Constitution way to set aside the death penalty. Change the law to abolish it? Absolutely–you could convince me to agree with that. What I meant above by positive law.
My own view is that the death penalty is constitutional, but our human frailties make it next to impossible to administer it in a constitutional manner.
Some mope’s gun goes off during a convenience store robbery and kills the clerk. He’s convicted of felony murder and executed. So far, so good. But can someone explain to me how he was more deserving of the death penalty than the Unibomber, who spent decades deliberately and maliciously trying to kill people, and succeeded, and then died in prison? Or Robert Hanssen/the Walkers/Aldrich Ames, whose treason caused hundreds of American sources to themselves be executed?
And that’s one of my issues with the death penalty. There are probably a hundred factors that go into whether any given murder defendant is going to get the death penalty and, if he does, actually be executed: The jurisdiction in which the crime took place, the prosecutor who decided on his or her own personal standards whether to seek the death penalty, how good the available evidence was, who is on the jury, how competent the lawyers were, even the timing. And at least some of those factors are probably not constitutionally permissible to determine whether someone is going to die.
So yes, the death penalty is itself constitutional, but it’s an open question whether our flawed justice system can constitutionally implement it. If I were a federal judge, I would be open to that argument, though I doubt the current Supreme Court would.
" But can someone explain to me how he was more deserving of the death penalty than the Unibomber"
He wasn't. The Unibomber should have fried, if anyone was going to.
Which is my point: Arguably the murderer most deserving of the death penalty in the last fifty years died of a peaceful old age in prison. If the Unabomber wasn't a death penalty case, then no case is. Which is Exhibit A in "the system's" inability to implement the DP in a fair and equitable fashion.
Yes, but somebody who should have gotten a constitutional penalty didn't, is NOT an argument that the penalty is really unconstitutional.
Sure, the unibomber got an unfairly lenient sentence. Happy to concede that, but it doesn't really have the implications you claim.
It's not just "somebody"; it's a systemic problem; see my comment above about there being a hundred factors at play as to whether someone is executed. Our death rows are filled with people who are no worse, and probably in some cases better, than those doing life or a term of years. It's like having a judge who flips a coin to determine whether to give a defendant half the statutory maximum or all the statutory maximum. Your argument is that those who got the statutory maximum have nothing to complain about; mine is that justice by coin flipping is unconstitutional even though on paper the penalty isn't.
It's not clear that a fair coin consistently used would be unconstitutional; equal treatment if not equal outcome. The problem is that the decision bows to public outrage, vengeance and other bias.
This is explained in Matthew Chapter 2, when the owner of the vineyard explains to the workers, who have worked all day for a penny and are complaining that the workers who have only worked for an hour are also getting a penny, that they have no reason to complain because they (the all day workers) are getting exactly what they were promised. It’s fair because that was the deal that they freely entered into.
So if you knock an old lady on the head in Tyrranochussetts, and she dies, and you get fried because Tyrranochussetts has the death penalty, you have no complaint.
But if your cousin does the same thing in Stegasylvania, where they don’t have the death penalty, and he gets 30 years in jail, you don’t get to complain about that either. He got what he was promised just as you got what you were promised.
Of course the real problem is when judges leap through hoops to prevent the promise being carried out. Always, obviously, in the case where they want to prevent the promise of death being kept.
But the solution to this is to get rid of the judges who refuse to follow the law. To give in to them, and say we mustn’t make this particular promise because the judges will cheat long enough and hard enough to thwart the promise, is to give up on all of the main principles of the US constitutional system – voters voting for legislators, Governors or Presidents nominating judges, and judges exercising the judicial power, rather than the legisative or executive powers.
But obviously to get rid of those judges, you need to get rid of the politicians who appoint them, knowing, and fully approving of the fact, that these judges will refuse to apply the law as respects this kind of legislative promise.
And to do that you need the voters who vote for those politicians to feel that it’s so shocking that they’re going to switch their vote.
But the record shows that overwhelming the voters who are ultimately responsible for the “inequitable’ treatment of murderers (ie murderers who the law says should be iced, not being iced) either aren’t that bothered, or actively approve.
So if equitable treatment is your baby, heal either thyself, or thy pals.
Matthew 2 is actually about the visit of the Magi, but leaving that aside, the parable of the vineyard does not apply because nobody was promised anything. Nobody ever told someone about to commit a crime, "I promise you that if you commit the crime, your sentence will be XYZ, so you can make a rational judgment about whether that sentence is worth committing that crime." No, that is not the way it works.
If you are Ted Bundy, you will probably (though not always) get the death penalty if you commit your crimes in a jurisdiction with the death penalty. If you are the average run of the mill mope who kills someone in the course of a burglary, or kills his wife or child in a fit of rage, or kills someone to cover up embezzlement that you were engaged in, we may as well flip a coin to determine your punishment. It's a complete crapshoot. And I don't think the Constitution permits crapshoots to determine whether someone is going to live or die.
Oh, and if you think the vineyard owner is going to have many employees working a full day after pulling that little stunt, think again. Going forward, he's not going to get anyone to show up before 4:00.
Matthew 2 was a typo for Matthew 20.
Nobody ever told someone about to commit a crime, “I promise you that if you commit the crime, your sentence will be XYZ, so you can make a rational judgment about whether that sentence is worth committing that crime.” No, that is not the way it works.
Actually that's exactly the way it works. The legislators, duly rubber stamped by the Governor say "if you commit this crime and the cops manage to catch you and the courts convict you, your sentence will be between XPQ and XYZ according to the severity of your crime, after consulting the sentencing guidelines which you can read here."
You can then decide whether you like the deal or not. There are countless examples of criminals carefully calculating their exposure, based on the sentence they'll likely get if they're caught. One of the most obvious ones was Roper v Simmons.
Some youngish folk in some rural idyll decided to deal with a old woman they didn't like. They kidnapped her, tied her up with duct tape and took her to a high bridge over a river, with the intention of throwing her in. At that point, several of them got cold feet, and started worrying about the death penalty. But the leader insisted - no, we can never get the death penalty because we're juveniles. So they tipped her in the river and that was it for her.
As it happened the leader's legal advice was precisely what was in question when the case hit the courts. In fact there was no such precedent (that juveniles could not be executed.) Juveniles had been executed on several previous occasions. But when it arrived at SCOTUS, the gang benefitted from Justice Kennedy's "evolving standards of decency" and Kennedy and the four libs plucked from their collective rear end a constitutional ban on the execution of juveniles.
So the gang leader was right all along. The legal principle with which the gang leader managed to persuade his pals with cooling feet to go ahead with the murder flickered between existence and non existence like a Schrodinger's constitutional right. It quasi existed for long enough to get the old girl into the river, but the wave function only collapsed when SCOTUS opened the box and found the old lady to be dead, but the juveniles to be unexecutable.
So, as I described, the system as it's supposed to work is that the law is written down in advance, and if you're caught and convicted you get the punishment that the law prescribes. The system only veers off course when judges decline to play their part honestly.
I refer the Hon Genteman to my previous answer.
No, the statute gives a statutory maximum, but for most crimes the defendant isn't going to get the statutory maximum. I just came from court with a client who committed assault with intent to murder, which under the statute carries up to 20 years. He got ten years' probation. In order to get the statutory maximum, you're either very unlucky in your choice of judge, or you already have a long list of criminal convictions, or you completely hit it out of the park when you committed your crime.
I just looked it up. Last year, my home state of Florida had 1,468 murders and had not executed anyone in 3 years (during which time 14 people on death row died of natural causes). Even accounting for the lag time between sentencing and executions, it's pretty clear that the chances of being executed are so minimal that a reasonable person would probably not factor it into a cost/benefit determination. (By the way, the death penalty states are the ones with the highest homicide rates.) Thurgood Marshall was right; being executed is arbitrary in the same sense that getting struck by lightning is arbitrary.
I don't think that something that is unfair is also necessarily unconstitutional; life isn't fair. But I also think there's an outer limit on just how unfair the state is permitted to be. Numbers like that are so egregrously unfair that I think they are outside that outer limit. You, of course, are entitled to your contrary opinion.
Kaczynski pled guilty.
The prosecution could have not reached an agreement that didn't include the death penalty, in which case he would have been tried, convicted, and sentenced to death. So in that particular case, the prosecutor was the crap shoot that kept him off death row.
"I have no use for “common good” constitutionalism, because that is just another flavor of Living Constitutionalism but according to a different set of principles beyond the law."
The book Common Good Constitutionalism is fairly short and clear (as legal books go). I was able to read it, so how hard can it be?
Look at these quotes, which I think at least approximate what Vermeule was trying to say:
"Focusing on the enacted law does not entail moral indifference. Rather, it respects a prior moral decision about how to resolve inevitable disagreements about the content and application of the moral law. In other words, the moral foundation of textualism is rooted in natural law ideas about reason, justice, and the good."
"...A functioning political society needs rules that everyone agrees are binding.
"The solution arrived at over time was to choose a sovereign lawmaking authority that would translate the natural law into binding positive law."
"These are just some examples of how statutes rest on deep
foundations shaped by constitutional law, the common law, and
background legal principles. These traditional sources of legal meaning in turn incorporate and reflect moral values drawn in from the natural law and the reasoned working through of legal principles over time."
These quotes aren't from Vermeule, they're from Rao's speech.
Has Heterodox Academy issued a statement concerning the Sumner Canary Memorial Lectures' recent lineup, which indicates an increasingly discriminatory affirmative action program for culture war casualties?
Probably not.
Carry on, clingers.
“Not today, Satan!”
I laughed. I have to admit, I read that essay with the inner voice of the Church Lady, and an occasional, "Isn't that special?" interjected.
Rao's view seems horribly close to the idea that justice is whatever the law says it is.
Rao seems very concerned with quoting David Foster Wallace so she can sound like a cool kid, and very unconcerned with the idea that this has been discussed ad infinitum- heck, any law school moron can explain (badly) the substance of the Hart-Dworkin debates.
It is, on the whole, more just that you get what the law promises you'll get, than that you get what the judge feels is right.
The risk that the law itself is unjust exists, but then so does the risk that the judge's discretionary treatment of you will be unjust. No difference there.
The difference is that in a textualist world, the minefield is marked. You know where the mines are and the penalty for stepping on them. If it's just the judge winging it, you're still in a minefield. It's just an unmarked one.
First, it's not textualism or the judge is winging it.
Second, the idea that textualism is less ambiguous than other doctrines of interpretation is ridiculous.
Which other method is more concrete and less ambiguous? Can you give me an example of how textualism gives an unexpected outcome where some other system would give a universally (or at least near cultural wide) anticipated result?
Honest questions... I really don't know as IANAL.
None of them. It is a high floor.
There are worse theories, and none are better than textualism. But plenty are no worse.
I feel some examples would be in order (of interpretative methods that are no less concrete and no more ambiguous than textualism.)
There are of course known difficulties with pinning down a text to a single meaning, and various refinements are used for resolving them (incuding, obviously, originalism.)
But seeing as you are a fan of Breyer and his totality of the circumstances approach, I feel that you need to earn some standing in this debate, before we credit your opinion.
The Constitution has a particular issue with textualist ambiguities beyond those inherent in the use of language. The Constitution is not being written as a legal text or even a prose one but as a framework.
Originalism is itself not inherently textualist.
Breyer liked purposivism via an active liberty paradigm. Other purposivist methods also work.
There’s textualism but as meanings change (‘man’ and ‘cruel’ etc) we use the newer meanings.
There is common law constitutionalism, where the lodestone is past precedent.
Or Critical Legal Theory. I don’t like it myself, but it has the virtue of being really unambiguous.
I cite Breyer more because he has a well explicated example than I like him. I like certainty, but I believe in a more integrated approach looking at everything gets closer to getting it right.
You may think they do it wrong, but none are more ambiguous than textualism.
a more integrated approach looking at everything gets closer to getting it right
I’m afraid that “a more integrated approach” simply means consider a whole pile of stuff and weight them as you please.
Textualism has this problem with the canons of construction, ie in ambiguous cases, there’s a pile of rules, but no super rule for deciding which of the rules has priority. Hence the possibility of different answers acording to which rule you give precedence to.
But this problem is microscopic compared to the equivalent problem in the Breyer scheme. For the clash of rules of construction applies only in a limited set of circumstances, and only a couple of rules may clash in any one case. But with Breyer, everything is up in the air, every time.
The choices open to Breyer to arrive at his preferred route, are essentially unlimited, and enable almost 100% certainty of being able to retrofit your path through the rules to your pre determined result. Breyer’s system is for constructing justifications, not for discovering the answer.
But textualism is an actual straight jacket. Yes, here and there you can waggle a finger or a toe. Maybe even a whole hand. But it’s a totally different sport.
I’m afraid that “a more integrated approach” simply means consider a whole pile of stuff and weight them as you please.
Waited as I judge proper, yes. As a human judge in our human judiciary institution. But note that mine is a jurisprudence of principles and methods, not just 'winging it.'
As I said, I think predictability is important, but I have other concerns as well.
the clash of rules of construction applies only in a limited set of circumstances, and only a couple of rules may clash in any one case.
Not in the Constitution! There's a ton of ambiguity not resolved by rules of construction (e.g. 'the legislative power' is what?). An ambiguity as intended, I think, but YMMV.
with Breyer, everything is up in the air, every time.
Having a purpose seems to me to cut down on the ambiguity a good amount. It may be a preferred rout, but I remind you that your metric you gave me was ambiguity. That preferred rout is pretty predictive!
Which is why I put it on par with textualism, as it grapples with vocabulary, syntaxy, and constriction ambiguities.
textualism is an actual straight jacket. Yes, here and there you can waggle a finger or a toe.
You keep saying this, but it is not true for the Constitution. It's ambiguities are large and varied. They are not everywhere, but there are more clauses than not which have some fundamental question about their text that has arisen over the years.
Sarcastro "First, it’s not textualism or the judge is winging it."
Sure, there are minefields in which some of the mines are marked, and some are not.
That's a false dichotomy via analogy.
10 yards.
This says what I was feeling much better. After all... if a judge correctly imposes a "morally" unjust but clearly understood positive law... who did the injustice? The judge? The lawmakers? The polity via their democratic actions and then indifference?
We can all agree that a thing may be "wrong." But is letting a judge decide against the expressions of the people via the legislature (hypothetically... there are problems with 'democracy' that we are handwriting away for this analysis) actually just? Maybe it is. Is it defensible as a systemic construction? I don't know because it is then, by definition, rule of man and not rule of law.
I think it may be a scenario of "No right choices exist" so we have to choose the least wrong. I such a case I am reluctantly siding with follow the law so that you at least don't undermine good law while you are at work undermining bad law. There exists ways to solve the problem from a system stand point (the individual who gets hosed is hosed... and I don't know how to stop that) that don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Because once you say the judge gets to decide contra the law then there is no law... either good/just or bad/unjust.
But is letting a judge decide against the expressions of the people via the legislature (hypothetically… there are problems with ‘democracy’ that we are handwriting away for this analysis) actually just?
Having the laws written by legislators who are elected may make them more just, but even laws written by a despot are less scary if they are adminsitered according to the text, than if they are administered by judges appointed by the despot, according to their discretion.
There's a very good example against it. Consider Jewish law. There are some very harsh penalties imposed by the ultimate despot, God. And yet "the judges", that is, the rabbis, have found any number of ways of circumventing the text to avoid the law's harshness.
Stipulating, blasphemer, that the judges "ways" are more just than God's law, you have merely identified an anecdotal example of the judges being juster than the law as written.
But that doesn't mean that judges can't be less just than the law as written. Thus on the asylum seeker thread, Nieporent claims that immigration judges routinely dismiss valid asylum claims, simply because they 're biased against asylum seekers. Since we are allowing stipulations here, we will stipulate that on this, if not much else, Nieporent is right on the money.
The point is, of course, that it's just as easy for a judge to be unjust as it is for a law to be unjust. But there's an additional unjustness in rule of judge as against rule of law, which is that with the rule of judges, you do not get prior notice of what the rules and penalties are.
Stipulating, blasphemer, that the judges “ways” are more just than God’s law, you have merely identified an anecdotal example of the judges being juster than the law as written.
It's not anecdotal.
"We can all agree that a thing may be “wrong.”"
Can we?
For the sake of argument let's assume we all agree murder is wrong. Or out right theft.
The issue at hand is how do you deal with a case after the democratic process has agreed that a thing ought to be illegal.
On what basis do you decide what is right and wrong or "just" and then conclude that your moral judgments should be forced onto others?
I saw Judge Easterbrook deliver basically the same lecture almost 30 years ago. It's not new and not some brilliant insight.
A typically lefty perspective – that which is not new is worthless.
A typically righty perspective is that it is worth repeating things that are correct.
As somebody said, but I forget who – “I repeat the obvious, lest the contrary be believed.”
Seems more like if you're going to repeat something worth repeating, give credit.
Again, only a lefty could possibly imagine that a truth worth repeating has only been mentioned previously by a single person. As loki points out in his sour opening comment, none of this is new, and none of it was new when Easterbrook said it either.
Today’s wise – or at least not irredeemably stupid – stand on the shoulders of so many giants that their names are forgotten.
Fools are brewed afresh every minute, so it is always worth pointing out folly even at the risk of repeating the obvious, even if the first guy who spotted that bit of the obvious lived in a cave and was called Ug.
Righties know that there is always an implied credit to Ug, but it’s not expressed because we don’t really know whether it was Ug, or his wife Og. The point is not who was first, but that whoever it was, they were right. And yet there is never a shortage of wooly minded folk who need it repeated to them.
I think things are okay to say again. I think that if you have adopted someone else's idea, you should credit them.
I also think original ideas are not some rare bird; the arena of thought is huge and there are still plenty of things to think and say.
This somehow is lefty thinking? You way overestimate how essential politics are to a worldview.
I think personality contributes to politics and world view.
On average those who are more cautious find it easy to appreciate what is, and easier to see the risks in change. And those who are less cautious find it easy to be dissatisfied with what is and easier to see the possible benefits of change.
Of course this is only on average, and there are many confounding factors. ie if you are living on the edge and not in a fun way, where any new disaster will sink you and your family, you don't rush towards high risk opportunities, even if you have an adventurous personality. And if you are a pampered scion of a wealthy family who's going to need six really solid disasters all in a row to sink you, then hey why not roll the dice. Could be fun !
I don't think right versus left maps to cautious versus bold at all. Certainly not these days when there are political parties involved.
compare (from The Camp of the Saints by Jean Raspail):
[I]n this world of warped senses, certain creatures of outstanding mind -- for good or ill -- begin to stir, to look for a way to fight off uncertainty, a way to escape from a human condition whose age-old persistence they refuse to accept. Unsure of what lies beyond, they plunge headlong all the same, in a wild flight into the future, burning their bridges of sober reflection behind them. Each one pulls the strings to the lobes of his brain. But here, precisely, is today’s great mystery: all of those strings, independent of each other, are nonetheless bound up together, and stem from one selfsame current of thought. The world is controlled, so it seems, not by a single specific conductor, but by a new apocalyptic beast, a kind of anonymous, omnipresent monster, and one that, in some primordial time, must have vowed to destroy the Western World. The beast has no set plan. It seizes whatever occasions arise. The crowd massed along the Ganges was merely the latest, and doubtless the one with the richest potential. Divine in origin, this beast? Or infernal, more likely? Be that as it may, the phenomenon, hard to believe, is a good two centuries old. Dostoevsky analyzed it once upon a time. And Péguy too, though in different form, when he railed against the “intellectual clique.” And even one of our former popes, Paul VI, toward the end of his reign, as he opened his eyes and discerned, at long last, the work of the Devil ... Nothing can stop the beast. That much we all know. Which is probably why the chosen few have such faith that their ideas will triumph, and why the ones who persist in the struggle know only too well how futile it is ...
Another typical lefty perspective seen above is that rationality and objective meaning is a hopeless lost cause. Reminds me of a quote from an ironically insane and terrible person.
"Art forms that appeal to modern leftish intellectuals tend to focus on sordidness, defeat and despair, or else they take an orgiastic tone, throwing off rational control as if there were no hope of accomplishing anything through rational calculation and all that was left was to immerse oneself in the sensations of the moment."
Left-wingers figure rationality and objective meaning is a hopeless lost cause.
Right-wingers figure obsolete superstition -- believing fairy tales are true -- coupled with archaic ignorance and bigotry is the only way to go.
Where is the hope for America?
How about you don't quote the Unabomber for truth, eh?
Autistic, antisocial, disaffected rage is among the most popular things at the Volokh Conspiracy.
That and racism, especially when punctuated by a stream of vile racial slurs.
Why not? Not approved by CISA?
I'm not saying it isn't a legitimate argument. I am saying it's not a novel insight, and of course there are answers to it (as there were to Easterbrook thirty years ago).
Left-wingers say anything that is not new is worthless.
Right-wingers say old-timey bigotry, ignorance, and superstition are great because they are thousands of years old.
Where is the hope for America?